A perfect UA-cam video! Useful and informative. No 3 minute introductory scene with spinning logos. No going off on tangents about the history of the yardstick. No electric guitar soundtrack that drowns everything out. No begging for the users to "click the subscribe button and the 'like' button as well".
Well said. This was how UA-cam used to be. Nobody was attention seeking or trying to make their channels look like Hollywood productions. It was interesting content without the egos. I hate the way it’s gone these days. Everyone is so full of themselves, all thinking they are some kind of celebrity just because they are a “UA-camr”. Dreadful narcissistic society “look at me, im sooo special” thumbnails with the mouth wide open social media face. I absolutely detest it. The younger generation dont want to work, they have mummy and daddys money to get a channel up and running, travelling about “hey I flew first class, I was amazed at the food” or dropping bowling balls off bridges etc etc and contributing nothing of any value whatsoever.
If anyone is wondering what the geometry behind this is, you're basically making an isosceles (two sides the same length) triangle out of the 30" stick, the 30" line from your eye to the bottom of the stick, and the line from your eye to the top of the stick. Lining the stick up with the tree creates a much larger but geometrically similar (same shape) triangle consisting of the tree, the line from your eye to the bottom of the tree, and the line from your eye to the top of the tree. Since the two triangles are similar (same shape), the fact the length of the line from your eye to the bottom of your stick (30") is the same as the length of your stick (30") means the length of the line from your eye to the bottom of the tree (60') must be the same as the height of the tree (60'). As a side note, we can see that when he measures the length of the line from his eye to where he will be holding the bottom of his stick, he holds his arm slightly higher than when he is actually lining up the stick with the tree. The true length of the line from his eyes to the bottom of the stick is therefore likely slightly over 30", since holding it lower will make it farther from his eye. Consequently in the larger similar triangle we would expect the length of line from his eye to the bottom of the tree (60') to be slightly longer than the true height of the tree (56'), which turns out to be the case.
You can do something similar with a speed square by placing the square on a level surface aligned to the base of the tree and then sighting down the 45° angle of the square aligning it to the tree top measure the distance from the tree to the square. This works because a 45° inclines run and rise match.
Military method: take any straight object (pen, stick, tent stake, etc.) and hold it vertically at full arm extension as you did in the video. Position the top of your stick level with the top of the tree, and position your thumb level with the bottom. Then rotate your measuring object 90 degrees while still at full arm extension. Position your thumb against the tree and have a buddy pace out to the end of your measuring object. Your hight estimation will be as accurate as the pacer's pace count. If you use the measuring tape, it will be accurate within a couple of percent. This is how pathfinders determine the correct amount of standoff from obstacles for the approach and departure ends of a helicopter landing zone or parachute drop zone. Like this: ua-cam.com/video/F6fltSqImFM/v-deo.html
@@Drottninggatan2017 the only thing that matters is that the distance from you and the tree, and the distance from your eye and the stick remain constant. You hold your stick vertical to align it with the tree. I personally do this with a pencil or similar sized object. Once you have set your thumb on the pencil so that the tree appears to be the same height as your pencil rotate 90 degrees to translate that distance onto the ground to easily measure it.
Great video! You don’t need a yardstick, you can use any stick. You don’t need a tape either, just heel/toe steps and a knowledge of how big your shoes are. Try it!
He’s got a hard hat on stand with the best posture you can start at the tree and walk backwards until the top of the tree is in line with the brim of the hard hat! The point you can see it is where the tree will land!! 50k plus trees fell in the city and in the country and anywhere else you can imagine. Never use the “stick method lmao.
We used this method as arborists to determine where a tree will land once felled, although we used pace counts, not the measuring tape. Does a very good job at preventing property damage/personal injury, so long as your notch cutting skills are on point!
This is EXACTLY the type and quality of video I was hoping to find!!! THANK YOU. My 10 yr old daughter and I had the discussion of how to determine tree(or other object) height from any given distance while while walking to school yesterday... and now we know the distance is key and more importantly... we don't need special tools. This is perfect. Well done...
There is another more accurate way too, but you need a sunny day... Say your daughter is 4 and a half feet tall. She stands in the sun and measures the length of her shadow on the ground. Say her shadow is 6 feet long.. Then she measures the length of the shadow the tree casts.. Say this is 36 feet. Then 36 divided by 6 = 6 Then it is 6 times her height [4.5 feet] to give 27. The tree is 27 feet tall... You like that eh!!
You can also use a compass to measure width by taking a bearing across the object (e.g., river, ravine). Then walk at 90-degrees up or down from that point until a bearing to the same aiming point is + or - 45-degrees. The distance walked is the width of the obstacle. Same as the tree, but on its side.
If one tilts their head back when siting the top of the tree, that introduces that 6 foot error. Site the top of the tree past the yardstick only moving your eyes and the estimate will be even closer. Great video, I needed this information!!
Both of the measurements given are estimates. Neither are "precision". The laser just measures the distance and angle faster. The laser is only as accurate as the user and the tilt at his shoulders produces similar error. If the laser is sited from 2 locations, even inches apart, then it's calculation is skewed. Ever notice surveyors don't use hand-held scopes? That's why. Mounted scopes have an engineered swivel that is taken into account in its calculation, which allows it to site multiple locations with minimal accuracy loss.
Your explanation is the methodology of the billmore stick. I worked in coastal BC Canada where ground conditions are highly variable and trees up to 90 meters tall have been measured. 60 meter trees were not uncommon. Basic method we use to use was a simple sunto clinometer to measure the angle difference top to bottom in % instead of degrees x horizontal distance in meters. Worked well for variable distances necessary. Lasers were a real innovation for timber cruising in big timber.
When we were kids we measured the shadow cast by the yard stick and the shadow cast by the tree and simply plugged it into a fractional equation, e.g. 36"/60" x/120' Other than the fuzzy tip of the shadow, it was pretty accurate. It was also a great way to motivate kids to learn math.
Sir Author Conan Doyle incorporated a similar method in the Sherlock Holmes story, "The Musgrave Ritual" Your method is just simple trigonometry using the 3, 4, 5, triangle. Keep going on this not only to get children interested but more adults need this as well
Stand your yardstick or ruler on the ground pointing straight up. Measure the shadow of the stick. If the shadow is half the height of your stick - the shadow of the tree will be half the height of the tree. You just need to figure the ratio of a known object to the unknown object's height. The ratio will be the same.
Man that is very informative..Its always good to learn things...I generally just go down to the local bar and complain about a tree I have to deal with...and after a while some retired ( loggers never retire) cutter will say let me come over and look at it... never costs more than a bottle of whiskey and drinks around the campfire.... cheap at twice the price..everybody is happy...I share the firewood with them and have all I need...
Instead of aiming at the base of the tree, like you mention about your "line of sight" beginning at 1:29. Keep the top of your right fist (holding the stick) level with your eye. This is what creates a 45 degree angle in your triangle, that is viewing the top of the tree. If the bottom of your stick is not level with your eye, than your distance will be less accurate. And as Jens R mentioned you need from there to add the height of your arm above the ground. If you are felling in a really tight spot, you could take into consideration the distance above the ground where you will place your hinge.
I think you’re on the right track but that would only be perfectly true if his estimate were too low. In this case, his estimate would’ve been the same, because of the distance to the tree, but adding the height of his arm would only increase the estimate, making it more inaccurate. Your geometry sounds correct but I think we’re just dealing with an imperfect, albeit good enough, method of measurement.
Measure the shadow of the yardstick . If the shadow is 18 inches you know the shadows are ½ the heighth at that moment . Measure the tree shadows and divide by 2 . If the 36 inch long yarstick had a 12 inch shadow then shadows are ⅓ the height of the trees shadows . Just divide 36 by the yardsticks' shadow length in inches to get the key number . and multiply the tree shadow length by that key number to get the height of the tree .
You can also post the yard stick next to the tree, stand back until the can see the entire tree in view, measure the whole tree with a tape measure in the stand backed view, then the yard stick and then multiply the two together to get the height. For example, say the yard stick is 2 inches in the stand backed view, and the tree is 50 inches total, the tree is then 100 yards high.
This method can save a lot of time when tallying timber. Rather than pace out 66 feet to use the Merrit hypsometer on your Biltmore stick, pace out two logs (32 feet) for upland timber, or three logs (48 feet) for bottomland timber. Turn around and check your log height with your stick and it will usually be within 8 or 16 feet that is easily estimated. Saves a lot of walking time and effort.
My father was a graduate of the Penn State school of Forestry in the 1950’s. I grew up physically running cruise lines, and by using a Biltmore stick to calculate how much board feet of timber was in an area of land…hard work because one had to stay on as straight of course as possible and this meant transversing around swamps, up hills, etc. we also used paint guns to mark which trees were to be harvested….GOOD TIMES 🙂
@@jcook7148 I'm from Minnesota and that guy is called a timber cruiser. I remember when I was a kid walking on trails marked by axe marks on a trees to keep you on the trail or the "cruise line."
The formula used is this: Height of the tree = (Height of the ruler you're holding * Length from your eyes to your hand) / length from you to the tree Thus you can stand anywhere you want relative to the tree and still measure the tree. It can be useful to use this formula instead if you don't have the space to move around too much.
Good video using good old trigonometry. Your hand assessment would be closer to your laser measurement by noticing where on the tree your extended "level" arm was pointing at. You would add the distance from that spot to the ground to your tape distance. In your case on level ground it is 4 feet. This works pretty well when you are standing on the upper side of a hill.
I think I can estimate the tree height just by looking at it and come as close as you did. As a member of a remote control airplane club, I often help people get their airplane out of a tree. Sometimes I use a 100 foot parachute chord. If I get the chord over a branch and it just reaches the ground I know it is 50 feet up. I can add more rope as needed if it is over 50 feet. I can usually guess within 5 feet of how high up the target is.
@@iamf6641 Probably because most people are not good at estimating things. And lets be honest, most men don´t even know the difference between 6 and 12". :p
Alternatively, if you go to the top of the tree, and you hold the end of a 100% straight 90 degree strip of measuring tape that begins right at the base of the tree, you can get pretty accurate results that way too and with only a small risk of bodily harm.
I use to use a speed square on a level bucket. Keep backing up until the angle lines up with the top of the tree then measure the distance to the tree. But that's a good trick!
I was worried they wouldn’t wear the appropriate safety gear when performing this dangerous task. I felt great relief to see they indeed were wearing hard hats.
Learned to do this with an ax handle from a logger friend of mine, we were just measuring roughly how far the tree will fall when we cut it to determine how far the felled tree would land for hazards but it's cool that we can use this same technique to estimate height if we have a tape
Excellent demonstration, super easy to follow and very neat method to complement the "rule of thumb" method for distances. Similar right isosceles triangles for the win!
I’m in a rush and had to go at 2:00! Thank you for this! Hard to believe a tree is as tall as a yard stick?! I need to go see how small my oak tree is!
I was taught to measure the length of my shadow when it was the same as my height, then measure the length of the tree's shadow. Doesn't work without the sun or in a heavily forrested area but it is accurate
You would have to be measuring at exactly the right time of day though. You could also just measure the shadow length of anything you know the exact height of, calculate the difference and apply the same calculation to the tree’s shadow. This can be done anytime there is a shadow present, regardless of its length.
@@peterk8909 so that means you going to stand around all day measuring your shadow until it is exactly 6 feet? That would definitely work, but doesn’t sound very practical.
About 50 years ago, I showed a similar method to some scouts whilst at camp. We used the stick at arms length similar to you. Held it so the thumb was at the base of the tree and we moved backwards until the top of the stick was at the top of the tree. The next step was to rotate our wrist through 90 degrees and our thumb was still at the base of the tree, then one of the scouts paced the distance until we told him to stop. We stopped him at the end of the stick. He then placed a marker on the ground and we calculated from his pace (all scouts knew what measurement their pace was) how tall the tree was.We did a double check with a measuring tape and the lads were pleased when that their calculations were very close to the final measuring tape distance/height.
Oh my god i aint never heard of being able to measure a tree height any easy way! 👍🏻👍🏻 I had no idea that roughly measuring a tree height the easy way exists! Thank you for educating me sir
It's basically geometry. If he had looked closer to the ground rather than looking at a slight angle it would have been closer to the 56 feet. It's 2 principles. Similar triangles. 1 being his arm and the bottom and top of yardstick, being equal (because they are the same angles) in proportion to him and the bottom and the tree's top. The other principle, because the first triangle is 30" (his arm length) and 30 inches (The yarstick height) that makes it a 45 degree angle, but more importantly the length of the base and the height of it are the same, so his distance to the tree equal's the height of the tree. Since he was looking slightly down it wasn't exactly a 90 / 45/ 45 degree triangle which explains some of the variance (also could be the tree bends toward him slightly making it appear taller when measuring with the stick. Also he could find out his distance to the top of the tree (if it was straight and he measured from the ground) as every hypotenuse of a 90/45/45 triangle is either the basse or the height (they are the same) times the square root of 2. So if it were 60 feet high from the ground he would need an 84' rope to lasso the tip top.
I'm a crane operator. Height, radius, and distance are very important. I've used this method with some 2x4s I've had around a few times. The magic of math and logic
Pythagoras's theorem is always useful. This is how the height of the pyramids were determined by the ancient Greeks. They used similar right angled triangles and shadows cast on the ground.
I learned a similar method in the Boy Scouts 53 years ago at age 12. Site on the base of the tree with straight object (stick will do) and the top the tree, pivot the base of the stick 90 degrees to the tree! Site on end of the stick that was the top of the tree. Have someone mark that point while you are still sighted on the stick. If you were to fell this tree in that direction that is where the tree would land.
Would it have made a difference if you had held your arm parallel to the ground, then added the distance from your arm to the ground to the measured distance to the tree? In other words, did the negative angle you introduced by aiming your arm at the tree base have given you the four foot error?
Walkout 20 yards from base, Snap an angle to the top of the tree. Punch in your Scientific calculator TAN of angle times 20=height in yards. Or however many yards you need to see the top.
Measuring the distance from your eye to the stick and then holding the stick at that height basically makes an equilateral triangle from your eye, your hand and the tip of the stick.
Interesting way of doing it. I always just stood next to it at 6 ft tall and eyeballed 6 ft sections all the way up and added one more than I counted. Then stepped off that distance. Usually ended up being slightly shorter than I measured. Prob shouldn’t be felling the tree that close to anything you don’t want damaged anyway and should climb it and take down in sections.
60ft actual minus 56ft est. = 4ft Shoulder height at which stick bottom mark was being held... maybe 4.5 to 5ft? I suspect for trees around the 45-65ft mark, using the stick method, such slight over-estimate (between 5 to 10%) would commonly happen. Of course the precise geometry is not quite that simple - and it is after all a rough working estimate. But just thought I'd make that observation. Anyhow assessment with a small over-estimate is always better re safe working and property protection eh?
As an old bushie (bushman in Australia) told me, stand with your back to the tree and walk away at various intervals stop, bend over forwards and look back between you legs, when you can see the top of the tree that is point of where it will reach when felled.
Climb to the top and jump, while falling, count the seconds that pass while waiting for onlookers to gather below excitedly anticipating your return to earth. Divide said seconds by thrice🤗
Pretty accurate. Correct me if I'm wrong, but If you look closely, there was a depression angle (which might cause the 4 feet difference) when you measured the base of the tree with the base of the ruler (because of this the angle won't be 45° anymore) since you were looking down from the horizontal line, from that viewport (which based on the data was approx -5.14°: tan-1 (5.5/60) based on average human height). If you look absolute horizontal from the eye's POV, there's no way to see the base of a tree. You can only see the base of the tree if there's an opening angle (elevation or depression method, further you go, the more field view will be covered with that same angle). To use this method more accuaretly, our eyes should be on ground level, looking up to the tip of the tree, and measuring the distance right from the point where our head was. The easiest way is to get a rectangular ruler with a degree of 45°, hold it to your eye's height, follow the hypotenuse until you can see the tip of the tree. Measure the distance to the tree and add the height from the ground to your eyes and you get the most possible accurate measurement done without any tech tools. :)
Also, if you looked at the person when he took the tape measure to the tree, he held it up at least three feet above the ground which almost completely accounts for the 4 foot difference from the laser measurement.
@@heela188 doesnt matter that he held over the ground since we are meassuring along that plane the whole way. The difference in height cant be explained this way :)
I have something similar that can do that. "Theodolite" (iPhone) takes photos/videos that will stamp the image with GPS location, direction, tilt, azimuth, time and date. I imagine you could even take a measurement of a tree on the other side of a small river. Take one reading, go farther or closer and take another reading, compare the two angles and distance between the two points.
That’s just more complicated than it needs to be. Keep it simple, just site at a 45 degree angle to the top of the tree, take a step back and the top will land at your toes. ( use a hand held site level with 45 degree mark if You can’t judge it)
Many years ago while I was deployed, we were trying figure out the height of a flagpole. A young civil engineering officer only ‘sort of’ remembered this method, so we relied on other means. But I’ve always held it in the back of my head and though it would be cool to know. Well, now I do.
You're a professor but didn't throw in the basic reason this works the way it does? Come on man. It's simple geometry, you're creating a 45 degree angle from where you're standing with the tree, and the angle is equidistant and therefore the same length as the vertical tree as is along the ground to it. Think of a speed square, you're creating a gigantic invisible one between you and the tree, with your feet at the point of the 45 point
In 8th grade my math teacher drew a twostory outhouse on the chalkboard with the lower door open. A stickman stood to one side with a line going from him to the top door. This was the "high pot in use". I've never forgotten that in 55 years.
Hehe, I learned this method some 30 years ago from a friend who was a "Meister" in gardening, specialized on trees. I met him in the botanical garden, where he was responsible for the north american trees. Very impressing man with a top knowledge.
Assuming the yardstick is held vertically, the formula for tree height "h" as a function of distance to tree "d", and eye height above ground "e" is h = d*(d-e)/(d+e) + e. In case your eye is at ground level, you get the result "h=d". If eye height is much less than d, it is "close enough" to say "h = d". A more accurate way to do this would be to measure "e", go to the tree, mark using red tape the height "e", then line up the yardstick with the bottom at the red tape and the top with the tree. Then the height of the tree is "distance to the tree" + e.
I was giggling watch it how simple it is to measure without technology. That was great. Thank you for taking the time making and uploading this life hack. :)
For those people who say they've never needed to use trigonometry - well here's an example of when to use it. The "laser" is just measuring distance and the device must also measure angle trigonometry does the rest...
In all seriousness we learned how to do this an the guy didn’t do no tricks to make it look like he got it exactly, these are the videos we need more of just on all different types of subjects
In Boy Scouts we use the Stick Method. Have a scout (5') stand next to the tree, then take any stick hold it out in front. Line the top of the stick with top of his head, move you thumb to align with his feet. Raise your arm to now align your thumb with his head to get the 10' mark. Make a mental note of where the top of the stick lands on the tree and raise your arm repeating this step for each 5' increment. It works fairly well, of course a 17yo scout is prob 6ft, so use an 11yo scout, adjust increment based on height of each individual.
Interestingly, old things become new again. Learned the same height measuring method in the Boy Scouts oh so many years ago. A great teaching method for youth, plus it improves their math skills.
@@AwesomesMan Either watch the video again (or other presentations) or try it out yourself to determine the math. But, then again millennials can't do math in their head the old school way and are always asking for the answers INSTEAD of discovering it out for themselves. Perhaps videos on using maps and compass would really enthrall your mind.
It works but what we always do when cutting trees is just pick up a stick and put it in your arm pit holding your fingers straight and break the stick off at your finger tips and the other end tucked in your arm pit and do the rest like he said and we've put a stick in the ground where we measured where the top of the tree will be when it falls and the first time we did this it was crazy cool and within about 2 feet , very cook trick .
The stick and string method is most accurate if you only move your eye to bracket tree top and base. Holding head stationary concept also works when taping guides to a blank before wrapping a fishing rod. It accurately centers them as you hold the mock-up down and parallel to floor at arms length, moving only your one open eye.
When the yardstick comes out, the hard hats go on. Thanks for keeping it safe, gentlemen.
A perfect UA-cam video! Useful and informative. No 3 minute introductory scene with spinning logos. No going off on tangents about the history of the yardstick. No electric guitar soundtrack that drowns everything out. No begging for the users to "click the subscribe button and the 'like' button as well".
Well said. This was how UA-cam used to be. Nobody was attention seeking or trying to make their channels look like Hollywood productions. It was interesting content without the egos. I hate the way it’s gone these days. Everyone is so full of themselves, all thinking they are some kind of celebrity just because they are a “UA-camr”. Dreadful narcissistic society “look at me, im sooo special” thumbnails with the mouth wide open social media face. I absolutely detest it. The younger generation dont want to work, they have mummy and daddys money to get a channel up and running, travelling about “hey I flew first class, I was amazed at the food” or dropping bowling balls off bridges etc etc and contributing nothing of any value whatsoever.
Shut up already
If anyone is wondering what the geometry behind this is, you're basically making an isosceles (two sides the same length) triangle out of the 30" stick, the 30" line from your eye to the bottom of the stick, and the line from your eye to the top of the stick.
Lining the stick up with the tree creates a much larger but geometrically similar (same shape) triangle consisting of the tree, the line from your eye to the bottom of the tree, and the line from your eye to the top of the tree.
Since the two triangles are similar (same shape), the fact the length of the line from your eye to the bottom of your stick (30") is the same as the length of your stick (30") means the length of the line from your eye to the bottom of the tree (60') must be the same as the height of the tree (60').
As a side note, we can see that when he measures the length of the line from his eye to where he will be holding the bottom of his stick, he holds his arm slightly higher than when he is actually lining up the stick with the tree. The true length of the line from his eyes to the bottom of the stick is therefore likely slightly over 30", since holding it lower will make it farther from his eye. Consequently in the larger similar triangle we would expect the length of line from his eye to the bottom of the tree (60') to be slightly longer than the true height of the tree (56'), which turns out to be the case.
Prefect explanation, I figured out what he was doing when he measured his arm, and started holding the stick up.
Thank you 👍
Thanks for the explanation. I know the theory behind this, but for the love of god couldn't figure it out.
Would your measurement be more accurate if you brought your eye closer to the ground to line up the yardstick?
Thanks 👍
You can do something similar with a speed square by placing the square on a level surface aligned to the base of the tree and then sighting down the 45° angle of the square aligning it to the tree top measure the distance from the tree to the square. This works because a 45° inclines run and rise match.
Pretty nifty. I always just cut em down to see how tall they were
Bahaha
Same, hate it when it is tall enough and i have to put it back
Don't cut it down, that's deforestation.
@@Waseemmmm stop commenting please
@@BrianHay7 Weirdo.
I use a speed square. Level it at your eye, point the top to the tree top, measure distance to the tree and add 6'.
Ah ha! But what if you're lying down? 😉
Military method: take any straight object (pen, stick, tent stake, etc.) and hold it vertically at full arm extension as you did in the video. Position the top of your stick level with the top of the tree, and position your thumb level with the bottom. Then rotate your measuring object 90 degrees while still at full arm extension. Position your thumb against the tree and have a buddy pace out to the end of your measuring object. Your hight estimation will be as accurate as the pacer's pace count. If you use the measuring tape, it will be accurate within a couple of percent.
This is how pathfinders determine the correct amount of standoff from obstacles for the approach and departure ends of a helicopter landing zone or parachute drop zone.
Like this: ua-cam.com/video/F6fltSqImFM/v-deo.html
Does it matter if the ground is level and if you hold the stick vertically or not?
@@Drottninggatan2017 the only thing that matters is that the distance from you and the tree, and the distance from your eye and the stick remain constant. You hold your stick vertical to align it with the tree. I personally do this with a pencil or similar sized object.
Once you have set your thumb on the pencil so that the tree appears to be the same height as your pencil rotate 90 degrees to translate that distance onto the ground to easily measure it.
Learned that same way for measuring pole heights with the local telephone company! Thanks!
That is the most confusing shit I've read this week
Wha, so you rotate the stick so it’s parallel to ground and your thumb against the tree.??
Great video! You don’t need a yardstick, you can use any stick. You don’t need a tape either, just heel/toe steps and a knowledge of how big your shoes are. Try it!
Good point!
You don't need shoes, just know how big your feet are.
You don't need a real tree, you can just imagine one. Just keep in mind that i² = -1, when holding your imaginary yardstick at a right angle.
For city trees, keep in mind that a standard telephone pole is 35 feet tall. Sometimes you can measure a tree against one.
Thanks great tip 4sure!
Any electrical/phone pole will be in the ground according to this calculation.
2ft + 10% height of the pole.
So a 40 ft. pole would be 6ft under.
@@lalarobert 🤣🤣🤣🤳🙏
He’s got a hard hat on stand with the best posture you can start at the tree and walk backwards until the top of the tree is in line with the brim of the hard hat! The point you can see it is where the tree will land!!
50k plus trees fell in the city and in the country and anywhere else you can imagine. Never use the “stick method lmao.
Nah that’s too easy, I’m whipping out the protractor
Super helpful and interesting geometric exercise. Also fun to tease you about wearing a helmet for this dangerous task!
We used this method as arborists to determine where a tree will land once felled, although we used pace counts, not the measuring tape. Does a very good job at preventing property damage/personal injury, so long as your notch cutting skills are on point!
why did you feel the need to say you are an abortist?
@@Mr850man why did you feel the need to ask him why he felt the need to say he is an arborist?
@@Mr850man to give context to the real world used of this knowledge?
@@ryanvess6162 Ohh arborist! I read it wrong sir
My cutting skills are pretty rusty I ain't gonna lie but my cunnilingus and donkey punch right hand are a sight to behold!!!
Every day is a day for learning. Thank you very much!
This is EXACTLY the type and quality of video I was hoping to find!!! THANK YOU. My 10 yr old daughter and I had the discussion of how to determine tree(or other object) height from any given distance while while walking to school yesterday... and now we know the distance is key and more importantly... we don't need special tools. This is perfect. Well done...
There is another more accurate way too, but you need a sunny day... Say your daughter is 4 and a half feet tall. She stands in the sun and measures the length of her shadow on the ground. Say her shadow is 6 feet long.. Then she measures the length of the shadow the tree casts.. Say this is 36 feet. Then 36 divided by 6 = 6 Then it is 6 times her height [4.5 feet] to give 27. The tree is 27 feet tall... You like that eh!!
You can also use a compass to measure width by taking a bearing across the object (e.g., river, ravine). Then walk at 90-degrees up or down from that point until a bearing to the same aiming point is + or - 45-degrees. The distance walked is the width of the obstacle. Same as the tree, but on its side.
Good dad award
@@rrcaniglia That is really clever!! Thank you for that!!
That's pretty advanced thinking for a 10 year old. Most are just wanting to climb the tree let alone wonder how high they're actually climbing haha
Excellent presentation and beautifully simple principle. Thanks for taking the time 👍
If one tilts their head back when siting the top of the tree, that introduces that 6 foot error. Site the top of the tree past the yardstick only moving your eyes and the estimate will be even closer. Great video, I needed this information!!
4 foot
@@JerichoRally feet
@@m74796 pics?
4' error?
Both of the measurements given are estimates. Neither are "precision". The laser just measures the distance and angle faster.
The laser is only as accurate as the user and the tilt at his shoulders produces similar error. If the laser is sited from 2 locations, even inches apart, then it's calculation is skewed. Ever notice surveyors don't use hand-held scopes? That's why.
Mounted scopes have an engineered swivel that is taken into account in its calculation, which allows it to site multiple locations with minimal accuracy loss.
Your explanation is the methodology of the billmore stick. I worked in coastal BC Canada where ground conditions are highly variable and trees up to 90 meters tall have been measured. 60 meter trees were not uncommon. Basic method we use to use was a simple sunto clinometer to measure the angle difference top to bottom in % instead of degrees x horizontal distance in meters. Worked well for variable distances necessary. Lasers were a real innovation for timber cruising in big timber.
When we were kids we measured the shadow cast by the yard stick and the shadow cast by the tree and simply plugged it into a fractional equation, e.g. 36"/60" x/120' Other than the fuzzy tip of the shadow, it was pretty accurate. It was also a great way to motivate kids to learn math.
Probably while y'alls was smokin da herb right breh?
@@charlesdarwin7253 Not likely. Just a better school that's all.
What if it was cloudy :)
Sir Author Conan Doyle incorporated a similar method in the Sherlock Holmes story, "The Musgrave Ritual" Your method is just simple trigonometry using the 3, 4, 5, triangle. Keep going on this not only to get children interested but more adults need this as well
@@isailwind3471 This method in the video doesn't depend on the weather.
This is why I love UA-cam. very informative video, I will archive this in my brain until the day, who knows when, I can use it. Thank you.
Stand your yardstick or ruler on the ground pointing straight up. Measure the shadow of the stick. If the shadow is half the height of your stick - the shadow of the tree will be half the height of the tree. You just need to figure the ratio of a known object to the unknown object's height. The ratio will be the same.
Man that is very informative..Its always good to learn things...I generally just go down to the local bar and complain about a tree I have to deal with...and after a while some retired ( loggers never retire) cutter will say let me come over and look at it... never costs more than a bottle of whiskey and drinks around the campfire.... cheap at twice the price..everybody is happy...I share the firewood with them and have all I need...
Brilliant!
Probably works for many issues needing addressed.
That gives me an idea for a medical procedure I've been putting off.!
Thanks!
Cringe
Instead of aiming at the base of the tree, like you mention about your "line of sight" beginning at 1:29. Keep the top of your right fist (holding the stick) level with your eye. This is what creates a 45 degree angle in your triangle, that is viewing the top of the tree. If the bottom of your stick is not level with your eye, than your distance will be less accurate. And as Jens R mentioned you need from there to add the height of your arm above the ground. If you are felling in a really tight spot, you could take into consideration the distance above the ground where you will place your hinge.
I think you’re on the right track but that would only be perfectly true if his estimate were too low. In this case, his estimate would’ve been the same, because of the distance to the tree, but adding the height of his arm would only increase the estimate, making it more inaccurate. Your geometry sounds correct but I think we’re just dealing with an imperfect, albeit good enough, method of measurement.
@@beboppalooka9897 What if he subtracted the heigth?
Measure the shadow of the yardstick . If the shadow is 18 inches you know the shadows are ½ the heighth at that moment . Measure the tree shadows and divide by 2 .
If the 36 inch long yarstick had a 12 inch shadow then shadows are ⅓ the height of the trees shadows .
Just divide 36 by the yardsticks' shadow length in inches to get the key number . and multiply the tree shadow length by that key number to get the height of the tree .
You can also post the yard stick next to the tree, stand back until the can see the entire tree in view, measure the whole tree with a tape measure in the stand backed view, then the yard stick and then multiply the two together to get the height.
For example, say the yard stick is 2 inches in the stand backed view, and the tree is 50 inches total, the tree is then 100 yards high.
😂
Well the math is a little off BUT yes it's very good idea
This method can save a lot of time when tallying timber. Rather than pace out 66 feet to use the Merrit hypsometer on your Biltmore stick, pace out two logs (32 feet) for upland timber, or three logs (48 feet) for bottomland timber. Turn around and check your log height with your stick and it will usually be within 8 or 16 feet that is easily estimated. Saves a lot of walking time and effort.
My father was a graduate of the Penn State school of Forestry in the 1950’s. I grew up physically running cruise lines, and by using a Biltmore stick to calculate how much board feet of timber was in an area of land…hard work because one had to stay on as straight of course as possible and this meant transversing around swamps, up hills, etc. we also used paint guns to mark which trees were to be harvested….GOOD TIMES 🙂
Dang!🤠👍
Is there an actual title that goes with that job? Down here we say “that guy cruises timber for a living”.
@@jcook7148
No, but I could get you a bill of sale.
(Knuck knuck knuck!)
@@jcook7148 I'm from Minnesota and that guy is called a timber cruiser. I remember when I was a kid walking on trails marked by axe marks on a trees to keep you on the trail or the "cruise line."
The formula used is this:
Height of the tree = (Height of the ruler you're holding * Length from your eyes to your hand) / length from you to the tree
Thus you can stand anywhere you want relative to the tree and still measure the tree. It can be useful to use this formula instead if you don't have the space to move around too much.
that's terrific to know if the tree will hit the house ,thanks
Good video using good old trigonometry. Your hand assessment would be closer to your laser measurement by noticing where on the tree your extended "level" arm was pointing at. You would add the distance from that spot to the ground to your tape distance. In your case on level ground it is 4 feet. This works pretty well when you are standing on the upper side of a hill.
Geometry
Not even trig. Similar triangles. Geometry. 7th grade stuff that many forgot or didn't see as interesting back then.
I think I can estimate the tree height just by looking at it and come as close as you did.
As a member of a remote control airplane club, I often help people get their airplane out of a tree. Sometimes I use a 100 foot parachute chord. If I get the chord over a branch and it just reaches the ground I know it is 50 feet up. I can add more rope as needed if it is over 50 feet. I can usually guess within 5 feet of how high up the target is.
yeah man It's pretty easy to know the height of a tree lmao. I dont know why these are complicating it
@@iamf6641 Probably because most people are not good at estimating things. And lets be honest, most men don´t even know the difference between 6 and 12". :p
Alternatively, if you go to the top of the tree, and you hold the end of a 100% straight 90 degree strip of measuring tape that begins right at the base of the tree, you can get pretty accurate results that way too and with only a small risk of bodily harm.
Or you could just cut the tree down and measure it from base to top without ever leaving the ground
Or you can jump off the top and use Newton's equation to calculate the distance based on time in free fall. 9.8m/s2 works.
I use to use a speed square on a level bucket. Keep backing up until the angle lines up with the top of the tree then measure the distance to the tree. But that's a good trick!
I just push a friend out of the tree and count the length of his scream! The sound of the thud is also a good ground penetrating radar tool.
What are you both doing in the tree at the top of it 😂
I was worried they wouldn’t wear the appropriate safety gear when performing this dangerous task. I felt great relief to see they indeed were wearing hard hats.
Learned to do this with an ax handle from a logger friend of mine, we were just measuring roughly how far the tree will fall when we cut it to determine how far the felled tree would land for hazards but it's cool that we can use this same technique to estimate height if we have a tape
the top would have fallen where he stood.
Excellent demonstration, super easy to follow and very neat method to complement the "rule of thumb" method for distances. Similar right isosceles triangles for the win!
I’m in a rush and had to go at 2:00! Thank you for this! Hard to believe a tree is as tall as a yard stick?! I need to go see how small my oak tree is!
Actually the yard stick is bigge. It Is an otpical solution that the tree loks bigger
lmao
You got enough from the video and understand the concept well enough to work for the government or Google, heck they’ll probably make ya a manager.
That's a neat tool for measuring height. Thanks that should come in handy.
I was taught to measure the length of my shadow when it was the same as my height, then measure the length of the tree's shadow. Doesn't work without the sun or in a heavily forrested area but it is accurate
You would have to be measuring at exactly the right time of day though. You could also just measure the shadow length of anything you know the exact height of, calculate the difference and apply the same calculation to the tree’s shadow. This can be done anytime there is a shadow present, regardless of its length.
@@cd7071 If you're 6 feet tall and your shadow measures 6 feet it's the right time of day.
@@peterk8909 so that means you going to stand around all day measuring your shadow until it is exactly 6 feet? That would definitely work, but doesn’t sound very practical.
@@cd7071 Not really. It happens twice a day. It's a lot easier than climbing a tree with a tape measure.
if the ground is flat. Does the same technique work on severe uphill or downhill terrain ?
Student's: Why do I need trigonometry
Teacher: You'll be measuring a tree one day
Teacher: "You need trig for a lot of things. But if you want to measure a tree, all you need is geometry"
About 50 years ago, I showed a similar method to some scouts whilst at camp. We used the stick at arms length similar to you. Held it so the thumb was at the base of the tree and we moved backwards until the top of the stick was at the top of the tree. The next step was to rotate our wrist through 90 degrees and our thumb was still at the base of the tree, then one of the scouts paced the distance until we told him to stop. We stopped him at the end of the stick. He then placed a marker on the ground and we calculated from his pace (all scouts knew what measurement their pace was) how tall the tree was.We did a double check with a measuring tape and the lads were pleased when that their calculations were very close to the final measuring tape distance/height.
Oh my god i aint never heard of being able to measure a tree height any easy way! 👍🏻👍🏻 I had no idea that roughly measuring a tree height the easy way exists! Thank you for educating me sir
It's basically geometry. If he had looked closer to the ground rather than looking at a slight angle it would have been closer to the 56 feet.
It's 2 principles. Similar triangles. 1 being his arm and the bottom and top of yardstick, being equal (because they are the same angles) in proportion to him and the bottom and the tree's top.
The other principle, because the first triangle is 30" (his arm length) and 30 inches (The yarstick height) that makes it a 45 degree angle, but more importantly the length of the base and the height of it are the same, so his distance to the tree equal's the height of the tree.
Since he was looking slightly down it wasn't exactly a 90 / 45/ 45 degree triangle which explains some of the variance (also could be the tree bends toward him slightly making it appear taller when measuring with the stick.
Also he could find out his distance to the top of the tree (if it was straight and he measured from the ground) as every hypotenuse of a 90/45/45 triangle is either the basse or the height (they are the same) times the square root of 2.
So if it were 60 feet high from the ground he would need an 84' rope to lasso the tip top.
I'm a crane operator. Height, radius, and distance are very important. I've used this method with some 2x4s I've had around a few times. The magic of math and logic
Seems like if you add in the distance from the ground to his shoulder that error would only be about one foot instead of four.
Finally, something educational that the algorithm has recommended!!!!
Pythagoras's theorem is always useful.
This is how the height of the pyramids were determined by the ancient Greeks. They used similar right angled triangles and shadows cast on the ground.
That's useful for the last century. Thanks. The challenge for this century is growing them, so that the next gen doesn't chop em down.
Hello Scott how are you doing 😊
I learned a similar method in the Boy Scouts 53 years ago at age 12. Site on the base of the tree with straight object (stick will do) and the top the tree, pivot the base of the stick 90 degrees to the tree! Site on end of the stick that was the top of the tree.
Have someone mark that point while you are still sighted on the stick. If you were to fell this tree in that direction that is where the tree would land.
were you 17 then ?🤣
Not everyone can attend SFA College of Forestry,
But everyone can internet.
Learned something new today!
Anyone can attend SFA College of Forestry.
He’s like: lets wear helmets in case the clouds comes down.
😂😂
I was looking fr u
That's to stop the alians from harvesting his thoughts dummy
Or aliens
Seems strange at first until you realise OSHA will slam you with a big ass fine if you're caught not wearing your hardhat while on the job site.
This video is simply very illustrative. Thank you
Would it have made a difference if you had held your arm parallel to the ground, then added the distance from your arm to the ground to the measured distance to the tree? In other words, did the negative angle you introduced by aiming your arm at the tree base have given you the four foot error?
Walkout 20 yards from base, Snap an angle to the top of the tree. Punch in your Scientific calculator TAN of angle times 20=height in yards. Or however many yards you need to see the top.
Thanks, for this video. Could you explain why you use arms length in inches to calculate?
Measuring the distance from your eye to the stick and then holding the stick at that height basically makes an equilateral triangle from your eye, your hand and the tip of the stick.
great knowledge, just learnt something new today
Interesting way of doing it. I always just stood next to it at 6 ft tall and eyeballed 6 ft sections all the way up and added one more than I counted. Then stepped off that distance. Usually ended up being slightly shorter than I measured. Prob shouldn’t be felling the tree that close to anything you don’t want damaged anyway and should climb it and take down in sections.
Don’t we just love a good old school British yardstick
I escaped that and had the slipper instead!
60ft actual minus 56ft est. = 4ft
Shoulder height at which stick bottom mark was being held... maybe 4.5 to 5ft?
I suspect for trees around the 45-65ft mark, using the stick method, such slight over-estimate (between 5 to 10%) would commonly happen.
Of course the precise geometry is not quite that simple - and it is after all a rough working estimate.
But just thought I'd make that observation. Anyhow assessment with a small over-estimate is always better re safe working and property protection eh?
I concur.
As an old bushie (bushman in Australia) told me, stand with your back to the tree and walk away at various intervals stop, bend over forwards and look back between you legs, when you can see the top of the tree that is point of where it will reach when felled.
That's brilliant! Thank you.
I was expecting some trigonometry, but this is way easier👍.
He is actually using trigonometry, but with paralellism he can just walk around and measure it.
The principle is the same,
Climb to the top and jump, while falling, count the seconds that pass while waiting for onlookers to gather below excitedly anticipating your return to earth. Divide said seconds by thrice🤗
very useful. Thank you.
awesome, very useful for quickly estimating tree heights
Do you measure at the base of the tree or do you push in a little and measure at the roots?... asking for a friend.
Remember kids, it's always important to wear a hard hat when carrying a yard stick
Don't know if I'll ever use this, but I found it on my recommended and it looked interesting.
Pretty accurate. Correct me if I'm wrong, but If you look closely, there was a depression angle (which might cause the 4 feet difference) when you measured the base of the tree with the base of the ruler (because of this the angle won't be 45° anymore) since you were looking down from the horizontal line, from that viewport (which based on the data was approx -5.14°: tan-1 (5.5/60) based on average human height). If you look absolute horizontal from the eye's POV, there's no way to see the base of a tree. You can only see the base of the tree if there's an opening angle (elevation or depression method, further you go, the more field view will be covered with that same angle). To use this method more accuaretly, our eyes should be on ground level, looking up to the tip of the tree, and measuring the distance right from the point where our head was. The easiest way is to get a rectangular ruler with a degree of 45°, hold it to your eye's height, follow the hypotenuse until you can see the tip of the tree. Measure the distance to the tree and add the height from the ground to your eyes and you get the most possible accurate measurement done without any tech tools. :)
Also, if you looked at the person when he took the tape measure to the tree, he held it up at least three feet above the ground which almost completely accounts for the 4 foot difference from the laser measurement.
@@heela188 doesnt matter that he held over the ground since we are meassuring along that plane the whole way. The difference in height cant be explained this way :)
@@lollerskatez1 The height of his arm above the ground might account for the 4ft difference between the two readings perhaps?
I wish there was an app full of this kind of stuff. Would be gold
I have something similar that can do that. "Theodolite" (iPhone) takes photos/videos that will stamp the image with GPS location, direction, tilt, azimuth, time and date. I imagine you could even take a measurement of a tree on the other side of a small river. Take one reading, go farther or closer and take another reading, compare the two angles and distance between the two points.
That’s just more complicated than it needs to be. Keep it simple, just site at a 45 degree angle to the top of the tree, take a step back and the top will land at your toes. ( use a hand held site level with 45 degree mark if You can’t judge it)
i agree, a bucket of water works perfectly too
Thats too complicated, just climb the tree and drop down from the top, calculate how long it took to drop and bobs your uncle, you got your height
What you describe is exactly what he did. I don't know how it could get less complicated.
The most useful thing I ve learned on the internet
I like how they are wearing hard hats on a public sidewalk
Many years ago while I was deployed, we were trying figure out the height of a flagpole. A young civil engineering officer only ‘sort of’ remembered this method, so we relied on other means. But I’ve always held it in the back of my head and though it would be cool to know. Well, now I do.
Hello Paul how are you doing 😊
new skill learned at 2 am
I dont know when i will ever need this information, but im glad i know it
You're a professor but didn't throw in the basic reason this works the way it does? Come on man. It's simple geometry, you're creating a 45 degree angle from where you're standing with the tree, and the angle is equidistant and therefore the same length as the vertical tree as is along the ground to it. Think of a speed square, you're creating a gigantic invisible one between you and the tree, with your feet at the point of the 45 point
John Bell explained this in a most professional and empathetic way. OSU has the BEST Forestry Engineering School available in the USA.
This is a big help, thank you. Now I can tell how far my dead ash trees will fall in advance!
Nice work, handy to know where the top will be when it lands.
In 8th grade my math teacher drew a twostory outhouse on the chalkboard with the lower door open. A stickman stood to one side with a line going from him to the top door. This was the "high pot in use". I've never forgotten that in 55 years.
Hehe, I learned this method some 30 years ago from a friend who was a "Meister" in gardening, specialized on trees. I met him in the botanical garden, where he was responsible for the north american trees. Very impressing man with a top knowledge.
Does this method assume you are standing at the same elevation as the tree? Relevant to measuring tree height on a hillside.
Exactly. They failed to mention that assumption.
Outstanding AF
Assuming the yardstick is held vertically, the formula for tree height "h" as a function of distance to tree "d", and eye height above ground "e" is h = d*(d-e)/(d+e) + e. In case your eye is at ground level, you get the result "h=d". If eye height is much less than d, it is "close enough" to say "h = d". A more accurate way to do this would be to measure "e", go to the tree, mark using red tape the height "e", then line up the yardstick with the bottom at the red tape and the top with the tree. Then the height of the tree is "distance to the tree" + e.
Thank you for posting this helpful , educated video.
You can add the approximate shoulder height of the person to be more accurate...thats why you were off by4-5 feet.
Thank you for showing us how to do this with very simple equipment! It's amazing!
They forgot the first and most important step: to get yourself a nifty helmet to protect yourself when measuring trees from a distance.
I should be working on a project, but here I am watching how to measure a tree. This is more important
I was giggling watch it how simple it is to measure without technology. That was great. Thank you for taking the time making and uploading this life hack. :)
I don’t think I’ve ever wondered how tall a tree is!! And yet this was in my recommendations!!
The best video on the subject, thanks!!
For those people who say they've never needed to use trigonometry - well here's an example of when to use it.
The "laser" is just measuring distance and the device must also measure angle trigonometry does the rest...
In all seriousness we learned how to do this an the guy didn’t do no tricks to make it look like he got it exactly, these are the videos we need more of just on all different types of subjects
Thank you, from a guy who has 6 acres densely packed with tall trees!
In Boy Scouts we use the Stick Method. Have a scout (5') stand next to the tree, then take any stick hold it out in front. Line the top of the stick with top of his head, move you thumb to align with his feet.
Raise your arm to now align your thumb with his head to get the 10' mark.
Make a mental note of where the top of the stick lands on the tree and raise your arm repeating this step for each 5' increment. It works fairly well, of course a 17yo scout is prob 6ft, so use an 11yo scout, adjust increment based on height of each individual.
Incredibly useful knowledge
Simple yet useful, Thales is awesome
Interestingly, old things become new again. Learned the same height measuring method in the Boy Scouts oh so many years ago. A great teaching method for youth, plus it improves their math skills.
Yes! I was taught that in the Boy Scouts, too! I still can't do it, though.
Where is the math in this technique?
@@AwesomesMan Either watch the video again (or other presentations) or try it out yourself to determine the math. But, then again millennials can't do math in their head the old school way and are always asking for the answers INSTEAD of discovering it out for themselves. Perhaps videos on using maps and compass would really enthrall your mind.
Reading a tape measure isn’t math.
@@swingbelly You clearly dosent know what math is.
Gotta love the PPE super duper safe tree measurement technique!
I have no idea why this was recommended to me but thanks for teaching me how to measure trees
It works but what we always do when cutting trees is just pick up a stick and put it in your arm pit holding your fingers straight and break the stick off at your finger tips and the other end tucked in your arm pit and do the rest like he said and we've put a stick in the ground where we measured where the top of the tree will be when it falls and the first time we did this it was crazy cool and within about 2 feet , very cook trick .
The stick and string method is most accurate if you only move your eye to bracket tree top and base. Holding head stationary concept also works when taping guides to a blank before wrapping a fishing rod. It accurately centers them as you hold the mock-up down and parallel to floor at arms length, moving only your one open eye.