Saleae Logic Pro Logic Analyzer - Unboxing and first tests
Вставка
- Опубліковано 16 лип 2024
- It was finally time to find a better solution for debugging the electronic leadscrew hardware and firmware, so I reached out to Saleae about getting a new logic analyzer for the project. This video is that story. We'll also unbox and try it out.
Electronic leadscrew project on GitHub: github.com/clough42/electroni...
Saleae Logic Analyzers: www.saleae.com
Stuff used in this video:
*This site contains affiliate links for which I may be compensated
Electronic Leadscrew Interface PC Board (eBay*): ebay.to/2WuLa7m
Electronic Leadscrew Control Panel Kit (eBay*): ebay.to/31VMbKw
![[001] Sigrok and Logic Analyzers](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dobU-b0_L1I/mqdefault.jpg)
I bought one of these when they first came out like 5 years ago. It was way cheaper then like $500.
I've used it on countless projects. One really cool one was where a client I had was having issues on an industrial type of machinery where we were capturing RS232 data going to a printer to record graphical printouts. We were getting what appeared to be random pixels in the data and even in the actual printout. It seemed random.
The decision was made to try to record the actual electrical signals to see if we could see what the issues was. But the event would not happen all the time, so we needed to record for several days. One really nice thing is this only uses data when there are actual transitions. This allowed us to record data for a few days and not taking up gigabytes of data.
Then we were able to use the serial protocol decoder to save the ascii characters and see where the glitches were happening.
In the end, we found that it was electrical noise caused by a large A/C motor in the system.
Without this device, we would have probably never solved the issue.
On this single job, the Saleae paid for itself many times over.
My takeaway:
"Hi, I'm James. Here's a thing."
" Check out the nice box. Also, neat case but who cares."
[Alien language]
"Software is bitchen."
[More alien language interspersed with occasional "That's pretty cool."]
"If you enjoy these videos, please leave a thumbs-up and subscribe."
Seriously though, maybe I'll catch up someday. But for now, the Clough42 ELS has rescued my smashed up lathe and it's now a thing I use to make parts. Keep 'em coming James.
You're quickly becoming one of my favorite channels. Also props on becoming a total beast in the squat rack your transformation has been astonishing.
While I have not used this brand, I have used a LOT of test instruments (remember the tube driven Tektronics o-scopes?) over the years. I agree that this one looks like a very capable instrument. I wish I had one of these when I was still working!
I think the ringing on the analog display is due to a number of potential factors - unterminated signal, unterminated test lead, single ground connection (rather than the specific one for that channel). Any, or all, of these can combine to create a false reading. There is no compensation circuit on the inputs to the analyzer as there is on a scope probe.
The other possibility is that the ringing is real. I have seen the connection of the test lead create ringing where there was none. Recall that ringing is caused by a reflection from the connection(s) impedance mis-match. Just the signal "hitting" the instrument input connector, pin, trace and IC pin can create this.
All that being said - that amount of ringing will not cause any problems. It does serve to remind us that there is no pure digital, just fast analog interpreted as digital! Love the geek content of this video. I guess it is because I am one, too. Now I want a new toy!
Excellent review, demo, and video. I can't wait to see where this goes!
Would love to see more electronics tools and test gear from you!! And troubleshooting techniques!
I have the original Logic, and it's been great, the software is what sets it apart for sure. It was a life saver when all I had was an old analog scope. Also the customer service, was top notch. As for the packaging, I think it's like dressing up for a job interview, it doesn't mean you're qualified, but it shows you're willing to put the effort in. So maybe you're putting that level of effort and attention to detail into the product also. Thanks for the great videos.
I dress how I feel comfortable, if someone values how I look more than what I know or can do then I probably don't want to work for them anyway. I treat products (and people) "dressed" like that as suspicious. I also bought an early model (MUCH cheaper than they are now) and IME the software is seriously lacking in many features, for example if you're trying to reverse engineer a protocol by comparing traces after changing one parameter then that's basically impossible with their software despite numerous requests for it so I ditched them and used open source Sigrok software and alternative hardware.
They do cost a lot now.
@@JasonPruitt I think they lost track and concentrated more on marketing/image than functionality.
The only thing better than their product is the support. Love those guys!
Function over appearance every time. Thanks again for another great video James!
This isn't a review or a recommendation but this is really good and you should get one. U love this, thanks.
Nice psychology lesson with packaging ☺️ you’re spot on with that conclusion in my opinion.
Very nice review, thanks! Disclaimer at the beginning incl. psychology, and then technical content and a real use case. This definitly increased the probability that such a logic analyzer could end up on my "want" list. :-)
Would also love to see your opinion on the $10 logic analyzers. I’ve been very pleased with them for what they are.
I have one of their original 8-bit analyzers - very nice! FWIW, I'd value the little clip boxes just so that pieces aren't skittering around the workbench.
Felt the same about the packaging when I received my 3D Connexion hardware. Very Apple like. It hasn't disappointed and makes Fusion manipulation a dream.
This was way beyond this hobby Arduino programmer's head, but that's how we learn new things, right? Thanks for sharing James!
Nice video, man. Thanks for that.
I have used a much much bigger logic analyzer than yours in the old days (around the 80s) and that did not gave such a precise and concise data. Technology go fast ,very fast.thanks for sharing
Very interesting. I may get one.
👍😎👍 - Thanks for the lesson
anyone else tought that box was a microwave?
Definitely me! LOL 😂
Do you have any recommendations for a beginner oscilloscope? Been learning electronics and your channel is really encouraging. The Saleae Logic Analyzers are really sweet devices, appreciate the walk through, learned quite a bit about them through your video.
I remember in the 80’s when we would pay HP over 50K for a huge box analzer like your older one. Remember the old HP IEEE-488 test equipment and controller computers that ran HP BASIC? Glad I’m retired!
I'd like to see a head-to-head with the DSLogic analyzer; I went with their 400Msps model (the 1Gs version hadn't been released at the time). The sample rate on the Saleae is higher but they still have the "retro" probe design that puts a huge inductive load on the DUT. I'd be curious to see if that's why you're seeing the ringing at 28:20... The DSLogic has coaxial probe lines with really short ground leads, making that less of a problem.
did you tried to capture high speed square wave, like 10mhz? for let say 5 secs ... does it show all up down correctly of loose some and include some extras?
Personally, I much prefer the Openbench Logic Sniffer, which does 200Msamples/sec for no more than $50, and it saves that data in actually guaranteed to be available on-board memory as opposed to crossing fingers and hoping to shove everything over USB in real time as it happens. It's rather unfortunate that OLS seems to be harder to come by lately, but you'll only prize mine out of my cold, dead fingers...
I played with an earlier version several years ago. I seem to remember that triggering flexibility was one of its major weaknesses.
I've only used the new software, it might be time to give it another shot.
I haven't played with the trigger yet. I think I saw something about triggering on decoded data in the alpha software, but it looked like it was maybe after-the-fact? More for finding something in a big capture?
this is a dream)
Hai James, do you have a (affiliate) link of the grabber clips you use?
There are a lot of chinese ones that look similar but are crappy.
Even when I buy it at the local electronic store the grabber clips are also from china!
Thanks for this video, just ordered the very same device. Say, what‘s the cool breadboard enclosure you‘re using here?
I 3D printed it specifically for this project.
I kinda like good cases :), do you have the size on this one?
My logic pro 16 came in an soft unshapeable "case" that doesn't hold together. I asked Saleae, but they actually don't want to sell this case as an accessory.. :)
Could this be used as a basic recorder oscilloscope for automotive diagnostics?
Very interesting. Kind of foreign territory for me, but something I am very interested in.
I am getting the same thing, but just the 8 channel version. My thing is I have a breadboard Arduino that runs at 5volts and I have a esp32 that runs at 3volts. I have a logic level shifter module, but so far the master esp32 can't talk via the shift module, So hopefully I can work around this if I can see what is going on, or not :)
The extra pins on the USB3 connector are for the higher speed data rates, not power.
Yeah. I figured that out and threw up some text in the edit.
Will this result in an update to the lead scro
I had never heard of Xilinx before this week, but then AMD went and bought them, and now I randomly hear you mention them, and I even know what a FPGA is, well I know that it's an initialism for "Field Programmable Gate Array" anyway.
An FPGA is basically a chip that you can program the internal logic circuitry. A common use for them is situations where you really want a custom chip, but you aren't making enough of your product to justify the cost.
Ramen may not fit your macronutrient profile, but it seems like MISO does. :)
You'd have to pry my HP logic analyzers from my cold, cold, hands. Thankfully I have versions before all the java and web browsery nonsense that is only going to make the unit unusable relatively quickly. I do retro restorations/builds where CPU clocks aren't more than a handful of 10's of Megahertz (mouthful). Also you cannot beat the plethora of inputs and proper probing solutions compared to these USB thingies. That said I have an authentic DSLogic plus with properly grounded probes that I got for nowhere near as much as this Salea costs. You just have to buy directly from them and not run afoul of the hundreds of knockoffs on eBay and elsewhere.
Speaking of nice boxes, I recently got a NanoVNA-F on eBay. For the money I wasn't expecting much but it came beautifully packaged and I gotta say I was shocked. Yes, it did predispose me to seeing the thing in a better light than if it just arrived in an anti-static bag with zero documentation.
Give Sigrock a try. There are many decoders built in that can help you decode SPI, I2C, UART, CAN, etc. That's where newer hardware/software beats the older dinosaurs. I believe the Saleae works well with Sigrock. I have those decoders built into my insanely expensive Rhode and Schwarz oscilloscope whose triggering options are utterly awful.
This is a good point. Even debugging execution on a Commodore 64 would require more inputs than the Saleae has. It's all about the application.
Let’s analyze, this is way beyond my “scope” but very interesting.
The one thing I hate about these is their lack of advanced triggering. Can't trigger on I2C address, so you can't log only the packets you care about. If there's some device on a bus with a bunch of devices, you need some other way to trigger it to catch that rare packet. I use an oscilloscope's trigger output & the 'scope's I2C triggering for it. Much nicer when you don't have sample memory to record several minutes (or more) of packets.
Yes the Saleae software is great but it would be useless without that equally slick hardware, software can't measure voltages, it only interprets what it reads from the "slick" hardware.
By the way did you consider the 2 Digilent products, the Digital Discovery and the analog discovery 2?
Briefly wondered why your microwave had a floppy drive.
you're not the only one
because when this stuff has been released , usb key did't exist yet and floppy disks were the only mean to save and transfer data
It’s the new way to save food
This looks like a nice tool! Great! Would be really handy for my current robotics project. Is there somehow a way to get one of those magic vouchers? 🙂
I might need 30k subscribers more for that 🤔😄
Fun fact: As a former child who once unboxed a brand new Apple ][+ in 1981, Apple has been going above and beyond on packaging since at least then. It, of course, wasn't up to today's standards, but for the time, it was quite swanky.
10:25 Totally thought the video froze for some reason. Lol
Is there any consensus on how to pronounce Saleae? Saeeaealeaeaeae?
Hmmm... maybe: ua-cam.com/video/BPPx55UxCUA/v-deo.html
turn it on...
I want one; just need a project and a spare £1000!
Can i ask you for the hight of the Discount you received?
The normal "discount" is a refund equal the price of the basic model, i.e. you get it for "free" if you promote it, but after the fact.
However they are also offering better deals for good causes. Seem to recall they offered free units for covid-19 efforts etc.
he's just tanking through the marketing tricks
Wish the prices would not have been increased by [8] 20%, [8 Pro] 40% and [16 Pro] 42% by now...
All the packaging does for me is make me think "how much cheaper could the product be is a plain brown box".
I bought one a long time ago when it was a LOT cheaper but no longer use it, their customer service and software support was terrible, quite happy to add pointless look and feel stuff to the software but not stuff that made it genuinely useful so I got a much cheaper knockoff version and use the open source sigrok software instead Saleae can get F**ked as far as I'm concerned.
Great. And now compare it to a cheap knockoff Version from china.!
13,129 views and only 662 thumbs up? Do some people get charged $5 every time they click an icon?
3:50 - I do, in fact, worry about shill videos... and more generally the corrupting influence (including unconsciously) upon creators who do sponsorships on the regular. However, assuming what you’re telling us is true, this was a case of *you* approaching *them* for a product you specifically wanted, just asking for a discount... and it’s not the usual thing for your videos (I mean, unless WD-40 or Microsoft is paying you:for mentioning products that... so many people use), so... I’m pretty ok with this. Especially if they didn’t put any stipulations on what you could say, before giving you that discount, and it sounds like they didn’t. So... keep it rare, and keep up the transparency about it, and you’ll get no grief from me. Thanks for exploring the product.
This is a super late reply, but I appreciate the conversation. As the channel grows, it is attracting a *lot* of sponsorship offers. Sometimes I get 5-10 offers a day, and I ignore most of them because they're for yet another lookalike consumer 3D printer with an ALL-CAPS brand name, pocketknives, flashlights, VPNs, and even hair care products. Seriously. Occasionally I approach a company, or something comes along that I would actually be interested in buying, like an industrial 3D printer, or a laser engraver. I pursue some of those, and have rejected a few when they asked to see the videos in advance, give me talking points, edit selected parts of my video into their own advertising, or give me a firm publication deadline. If the product is something that will increase the capabilities of my shop and allow me to make more interesting content for the channel, I consider it.
You don't know me and shouldn't trust my objectivity, so I'm not really trying to be a trusted reviewer. I always try to be as transparent as possible when tools are provided to me, and I try to add additional value, like showing how I used the tool for my application, or explaining how to overcome problems I encountered. In the end, I can only do this long-term if I'm getting some kind of compensation, and whether that's advertising revenue mediated by the almighty algorithm, paid sponsorships, direct patronage, affiliate revenue, product and merchandise sales, or something else, I will always have an incentive to maximize. One could argue that direct patronage is the purest and least morally compromising form of compensation, but that's also a marketing message from the company providing the service and taking their cut. Pretending otherwise is just another kind of deception.
The best I can do is to be transparent and let the viewer decide, and I hope most of them are, by default, skeptical.
@@Clough42 late or no, this was an excellent reply, and I thank you for it, James.
And yeah, I do think about the fact that even plugging direct patronage options is marketing for the company providing the service. Alas. 😕
From what I can tell, you're making thoughtful decisions, and trying to minimize the corrupting influences, so, kudos to that.
The one thing I'll push back on, though -- sort of -- is this idea that you "will always have an incentive to maximize". I mean sure, there's always a sort of incentive for that, I don't disagree with you that incentives are there that encourage that. However, I do think it's possible to take a stance that one doesn't wish to grow, doesn't wish to "maximize" -- instead one can just find a level that's comfortable, and try to maintain that. Whether that sounds good to you or not, I don't know... I just know that pushing to maximize all the time is... well... such attitudes are the air we breathe in this culture, and they're eating us from the lungs outward. This isn't the word you used, but... "growth" is _never_ sustainable, and... yeah, we'd do better if we weren't so obsessed with it. I'm not sure if that's how you're thinking about it or not -- here's hoping not! -- just... it's what that phrase of yours made me think of.
Anyway, I love your content, and have been happy so far with how you've handled this stuff. So, keep up (for as long as you want to) the good work, on multiple fronts!
@@DavidLindes I don't actually tend to think about achievement for achievement's sake. I tend to care a lot more about whether I enjoy what I'm doing, or maybe something similar: whether what I'm doing maintains my interest and attention.
The desire to grow a UA-cam channel and make it profitable doesn't come just from ambition; it's also driven by sustainability. The amount of effort required is beyond what most people appreciate. Depending on the format, the effort isn't sustainable in the long run while also maintaining a full time day job. It will either grow into a full time gig, incorporate additional help, gradually taper off, or end in burnout or some other metal health crisis for most people. There are exceptions. I'm probably way out at the end of the bell curve in terms of my ability to apply focused effort to something over time, which is why I've been able to maintain the schedule I have. It is not a coincidence that so many (successful) creators are on the spectrum.
While an individual creator can take a position of contentment and not be unduly tempted by the promise of fabulous riches, you can't count on that. When evaluating the veracity of what you're seeing, you must assume that temptation is there.
@@Clough42 "and even hair care products. Seriously." -- They know you recommend hair spray for seasoning 3d printer beds and want a piece of that market. 😁 (Just wait for the offers from soda companies for replacing your mill's coolant bottle. *EDIT:* And then I get to a couple videos later, and you've gone to an entirely non-soda bottle. Sorry, Coca-Cola, you lost out.)
Also, goddamn, that old analyzer. 3.5" floppy drive and Netscape Navigator 4. Those, uh, certainly were the days.
I bought one about 12 years ago and it was a fraction ($100) of the cost they are now. The packaging now may be 'Apple', but unfortunately so is the price. The newer devices are very little different internally to the original devices and the software up until v2 was always in beta, never released. I wrote quite a few custom analysers for the old v1 software which was a great value add. Don't get me wrong, the Saleae Logic devices are fantastic, but they are way way way overpriced now for what the hardware actually costs!
Anyone who thinks you are a 'shill' needs to seriously re-evaluate their life.
Also that USB connector needs to get updated to USBC--pronto--with that pricetag being what it is. Death to microUSB, long live USBC
Please tell me you took this thing to work and rubbed everyone's noses in it, 😅
The people I work with have $50k MSOs on their desks.
I would like to see a comparison between Hantek 6022BL and the saleae