Agree with Dizzy Dude - John Waters WAS intentionally campy. He is a true auteur and a notable craftsman. The idea that he could, time and time again, fall backwards accidentally into the campy themes of his early works is completely ludicrous. Props to him.
It seems to me that John Waters' early films are a kind of intentional camp. He consciously uses camp aesthetics, outlandish stories, and amateurish acting to distance the audience from taking anything TOO seriously. If camp can't be intentional, is there another name for what Waters' early films (and, arguably, all of his films) do?
Pagano, I'm not quite sure that John Waters was going after intentional camp, though - at the time, his idea was more of a rebellion against "convention," a theatrical protest against what was accepted. It was more like his approach to movie-making was what the Hippies were during the 60's - not meant to be made fun of, or (despite being good or bad) simply rebellious and taking a stand on social issues. It was like walking into your parent's fancy dinner party, and throwing the main coarse all over the guests. It wasn't meant to be funny, or "camp" - but to take a social stand against the "accepted norm." John Waters was very much the peer of Truman Capote - done in all seriousness, but it's perception by the average consumer was completely different from intent. That is one thing that the narrator brought up that I found interesting - the movies that he listed as "Serious Sci-Fi - like Alien, or 2001, or Star Wars" - sure - we reverently hold those movies as the standard of Sci-Fi today - but as he also went on to say, social norms change. What will future audiences perceive those movies as? Perhaps they would take the perspective that those are "funny," or "ridiculous" or any other adjective that pertains to camp. Hell, we do it today when we look at movies that try to predict technology, or what social norms "...should be in 1985," or anything else. There's no true, solid definition of "camp" - it changes year by year as culture, perspective and public reaction changes. Just my thoughts.
I remember seeing those outfits from Queen of Outer Space. I think I saw the same outfits in the title sequence from the anthology film Amazon Women On The Moon.
They keep on saying "you can't manufacture camp" -- and then talks about Batman 66, Barbarella, and John Waters - sometimes in the same sentence. Do you really think that stuff was originally supposed to be organic dramas? Make up yer mind!
The wordy definition of camp given here isn't at all accurate. First of all, the word was originally associated with flamboyant homosexual "camping," and that kind of self-consciously tacky behavior. It has since traveled into the worlds of literature and film. John Waters is quintessentially camp, with lines like "I'm so hungry I could eat cancer," or "Look at all those trees, stealing my oxygen." Queen of Outer Space can be called camp as a criticism. However, it's not camp because it's absurdities are NOT self-conscious.
I think Susan Sontag was being deliberately vague. Her essay points us in a direction but does not truly define. I think the term "intentional" is being misused. Let's compare Batman 66 to its contemporary, Lost In Space. The writers of Batman are trying to tell the story of Batman. They wrote intentional campy elements . Part of the reason was to match the tone of the comic book in that era. They were also trying add a humor layer for the parents who would undoubtedly be watching with their children. Consider Batman dancing the Batusi. The idea of a crime fighter trying to blend in at a club he is surveilling by taking to the dance floor makes a certain sort of sense. The idea that someone who is a celebrity in that town dancing around in a stand out costume is surreal. In short, here's the story of Batman, but we wrote it campy. I think it stands up as camp. Lost in space started as a deadly serious show. Then due to reasons, they tried to write it as campy. We end up with plot lines of people getting turned into animated vegetables, being accosted by opera singing space Vikings and bank robbers who held up the first intergalactic bank. They are trying so hard to be campy that they fail and end up being silly instead. Many of the Batman plotlines could be stripped of campy elements and still tell us a functional story. In order to do the same to Lost in Space, you would have to rewrite the plot in it's entirety.
Great video, but I have to argue against the claim that Star Wars isn't camp. It unapologetically is, especially when viewed alongside other sci-fi of the late 70s. It was simply mainstreamed due to the quality of its story and production, but it's every silly, sexy and fun.
Duran drummer Roger Taylor met John and Nick in the Birmingham nightclub, Barbarella's. They performed there in 1979 and two or three weeks later gave Roger a call, asking if he'd like to join the band. The venue was opened at the start of the 1970s by nightclub owner Edward Fewtrell. Duran Duran played and rehearsed in the Rum Runner nightclub, located nearby.
You mention the 60s Batman TV show, but then conclude that camp can't be intentional? Even disregarding TV, what about "Doc Savage: The Man of Bronze" (1975) or "Casino Royale" (1967) or the Derek Flint series of movies?
I disagree with the claim that camp must be unintentional. If that was the case, Brandon Rogers and his whole career would not exist. You just have to know what you are doing.
Agreed. Same with John Waters. He definitely has known what he was doing all his career, and his films are camp because he flagrantly sends up “normal” society with his gleefully “abnormal” collaborators. Also “The Rocky Horror Picture Show.” The problem with this video’s “Sharknado” comparison is that “Sharknado” is not trying to be camp, it’s trying to be so-bad-it’s-good, which is not the same thing. Lots of films are bad, even enjoyably so, without being camp. Camp typically has a level of social transgression, whereas “Sharknado” is just a mixture of incompetence and stupidity, a broad type of humor that appeals to children. Camp appeals to outsiders.
@@mcharrison23 He is one of the longest running UA-camrs. He makes comedy sketches and is the voice for Blitzo on the ever increasing in popularity Helluva Boss on Vivziepop.
@@stuartwray6175 You're probably going by the Wikipedia article which quotes Christopher Isherwood, not Sontag. However over the past half century 'camp' has gradually replaced 'corny' or 'kitsch' (both of which are unintentional). So yes, the original meaning has been lost.Of those examples only Barbarella would qualify as camp under the original definition.
@@stuartwray6175 Well either way, 'your side' has won (hurray for you-) because yes, now 'camp' has simply replaced 'corny'/'cheesy', etc. As 'elchico4918' above says, it is not written in stone. Just like 'Film Noir' used to only refer to certain crime films of the 40s and 50s, now the term starts in the 1920s and goes to the mid 60s. The term 'Steampunk' (not invented until the 90s) gets used for old shows and movies that feature Jules Verne type technology. For instance the original TV version of 'The Wild Wild West' which ran 1965-68. LOL.
joining the chorus here to adamantly disagree with the claim here that camp must be unintentional. Saying it more times does not make it true, it just points out how off the definition is here. Drag queens work too hard for this video to be so wrong about this!
What is camp? Sesame Street, Teletubbies, any kids show on public TV and Nickelodeon. Superman, Batman, any adventure show on prime time. Any movie, especially a "tentpole" attraction, that sells lots of tickets and popcorn. We were all raised on camp, from cradle to office desk. People just might need to learn about what is non-camp, culture that is normal.
I miss the feminist not the plastic surgeon who challenges Dolly! She was once my hero now she gets paid by a billionaire to "escort him"! SO SAD! I had the utmost respect for you but now you're for the gays not women's rights!
Agree with Dizzy Dude - John Waters WAS intentionally campy. He is a true auteur and a notable craftsman. The idea that he could, time and time again, fall backwards accidentally into the campy themes of his early works is completely ludicrous. Props to him.
FYI, Jane Fonda’s costumes for "Barbarella"
were the work of Jacques Fonteray, as mentioned,
AND fashion designer Paco Rabanne, as not mentioned.
It seems to me that John Waters' early films are a kind of intentional camp. He consciously uses camp aesthetics, outlandish stories, and amateurish acting to distance the audience from taking anything TOO seriously. If camp can't be intentional, is there another name for what Waters' early films (and, arguably, all of his films) do?
Barbarella is intentional camp too.
Pagano, I'm not quite sure that John Waters was going after intentional camp, though - at the time, his idea was more of a rebellion against "convention," a theatrical protest against what was accepted. It was more like his approach to movie-making was what the Hippies were during the 60's - not meant to be made fun of, or (despite being good or bad) simply rebellious and taking a stand on social issues. It was like walking into your parent's fancy dinner party, and throwing the main coarse all over the guests. It wasn't meant to be funny, or "camp" - but to take a social stand against the "accepted norm." John Waters was very much the peer of Truman Capote - done in all seriousness, but it's perception by the average consumer was completely different from intent.
That is one thing that the narrator brought up that I found interesting - the movies that he listed as "Serious Sci-Fi - like Alien, or 2001, or Star Wars" - sure - we reverently hold those movies as the standard of Sci-Fi today - but as he also went on to say, social norms change. What will future audiences perceive those movies as? Perhaps they would take the perspective that those are "funny," or "ridiculous" or any other adjective that pertains to camp. Hell, we do it today when we look at movies that try to predict technology, or what social norms "...should be in 1985," or anything else.
There's no true, solid definition of "camp" - it changes year by year as culture, perspective and public reaction changes.
Just my thoughts.
I always say that the best film openings of all time is the opening bank heist from The Dark Knight and the striptease from Barbarella.
I remember seeing those outfits from Queen of Outer Space. I think I saw the same outfits in the title sequence from the anthology film Amazon Women On The Moon.
I think a lot of the Star Wars franchise (especially Return of the Jedi) exhibits elements of camp. Star Trek too.
Bring back TCM Underground, please.
THANK YOU!!!
@@simon5005 You're Welcome!
We want it back!
I'll second that!
I miss it
“Neely O’Hara!!!”
'Sparkle, Neely. Sparkle!' :)
I love TCM❤
Camp can be intentional; some self-aware film, pop music, theatre, art and fashion quite often use it to amplify the absurd.
What, no Flash Gordon?
And, Flesh Gordon
👍🚀
This is my favorite TCM Film 101 video!! Even though they're all great ❤🎉
By a show of hands who Loves Science Fiction Movies.
LOVE TCM THE REAL MOVIES!!!!
They keep on saying "you can't manufacture camp" -- and then talks about Batman 66, Barbarella, and John Waters - sometimes in the same sentence. Do you really think that stuff was originally supposed to be organic dramas? Make up yer mind!
The wordy definition of camp given here isn't at all accurate. First of all, the word was originally associated with flamboyant homosexual "camping," and that kind of self-consciously tacky behavior. It has since traveled into the worlds of literature and film. John Waters is quintessentially camp, with lines like "I'm so hungry I could eat cancer," or "Look at all those trees, stealing my oxygen." Queen of Outer Space can be called camp as a criticism. However, it's not camp because it's absurdities are NOT self-conscious.
I think Susan Sontag was being deliberately vague. Her essay points us in a direction but does not truly define. I think the term "intentional" is being misused. Let's compare Batman 66 to its contemporary, Lost In Space. The writers of Batman are trying to tell the story of Batman. They wrote intentional campy elements . Part of the reason was to match the tone of the comic book in that era. They were also trying add a humor layer for the parents who would undoubtedly be watching with their children. Consider Batman dancing the Batusi. The idea of a crime fighter trying to blend in at a club he is surveilling by taking to the dance floor makes a certain sort of sense. The idea that someone who is a celebrity in that town dancing around in a stand out costume is surreal. In short, here's the story of Batman, but we wrote it campy. I think it stands up as camp. Lost in space started as a deadly serious show. Then due to reasons, they tried to write it as campy. We end up with plot lines of people getting turned into animated vegetables, being accosted by opera singing space Vikings and bank robbers who held up the first intergalactic bank. They are trying so hard to be campy that they fail and end up being silly instead. Many of the Batman plotlines could be stripped of campy elements and still tell us a functional story. In order to do the same to Lost in Space, you would have to rewrite the plot in it's entirety.
Great video, but I have to argue against the claim that Star Wars isn't camp. It unapologetically is, especially when viewed alongside other sci-fi of the late 70s. It was simply mainstreamed due to the quality of its story and production, but it's every silly, sexy and fun.
Geeking out on how great the movies are😊
The tragically ludicrous? The ludicrously tragic?
All I got from this is that I obviously need to watch Barbarella
'All I got from the is'
Did he just mentioned the longest named city in the world at 9:03?
If John Taylor hadn’t seen Barbarella, the band *Duran Duran* would’ve had a different name!
Duran drummer Roger Taylor met John and Nick in the Birmingham nightclub, Barbarella's. They performed there in 1979 and two or three weeks later gave Roger a call, asking if he'd like to join the band.
The venue was opened at the start of the 1970s by nightclub owner Edward Fewtrell. Duran Duran played and rehearsed in the Rum Runner nightclub, located nearby.
Jane Fonda as Barbarella = ❤️
ABSO-FREAKIN'-LUTELY! 😄
Yes
Cat Ballou & Klute
You mention the 60s Batman TV show, but then conclude that camp can't be intentional? Even disregarding TV, what about "Doc Savage: The Man of Bronze" (1975) or "Casino Royale" (1967) or the Derek Flint series of movies?
Great video and I added some movies to my watch list. Closed captioning would be great if addition to the video.
I disagree with the claim that camp must be unintentional. If that was the case, Brandon Rogers and his whole career would not exist. You just have to know what you are doing.
Agreed. Same with John Waters. He definitely has known what he was doing all his career, and his films are camp because he flagrantly sends up “normal” society with his gleefully “abnormal” collaborators. Also “The Rocky Horror Picture Show.” The problem with this video’s “Sharknado” comparison is that “Sharknado” is not trying to be camp, it’s trying to be so-bad-it’s-good, which is not the same thing. Lots of films are bad, even enjoyably so, without being camp. Camp typically has a level of social transgression, whereas “Sharknado” is just a mixture of incompetence and stupidity, a broad type of humor that appeals to children. Camp appeals to outsiders.
This. Heck, even one of the films they spotlight, Barbarella, is an overt comedy. It knows exactly what it's doing.
Who's Brandon Rodgers?
@@mcharrison23 He is one of the longest running UA-camrs. He makes comedy sketches and is the voice for Blitzo on the ever increasing in popularity Helluva Boss on Vivziepop.
Thank your stars they didn't include the real worst SF movie ever, "Battlefield Earth."
Cool!
Closed Captioning?
Oh honey...where's the 1980 "Flash Gordon?"
Actually Camp IS intentional. He needs to go back and read Sontag's essay.
There are many aspects of Sontag''s essay that are disputable. This essay presents her opinion.It is not written in stone.
She says that the best examples are unintentional.
@@stuartwray6175 You're probably going by the Wikipedia article which quotes Christopher Isherwood, not Sontag. However over the past half century 'camp' has gradually replaced 'corny' or 'kitsch' (both of which are unintentional). So yes, the original meaning has been lost.Of those examples only Barbarella would qualify as camp under the original definition.
@@MrPeterbs I'm going by what she says in her long list of notes, or "jottings" - Number 19, I think. It's the opening sentence.
@@stuartwray6175 Well either way, 'your side' has won (hurray for you-) because yes, now 'camp' has simply replaced 'corny'/'cheesy', etc. As 'elchico4918' above says, it is not written in stone. Just like 'Film Noir' used to only refer to certain crime films of the 40s and 50s, now the term starts in the 1920s and goes to the mid 60s. The term 'Steampunk' (not invented until the 90s) gets used for old shows and movies that feature Jules Verne type technology. For instance the original TV version of 'The Wild Wild West' which ran 1965-68. LOL.
I disagree that it can't be intentional. Batman 66 was definitely intentionally campy
Think of it: Future events that will affect you … in the future.
Because that is where we will ALL spend the rest of our lives........
@@tectorgorch8698 actually, we spend all our lives in the present
@@84paratize True, but I was quoting Criswell himself. It's a great line.
TCM Underground is camp
the stars wars is camp
Not 'the star wars' - 'Star Wars' is camp.
Scared of the base too?
Camp actually can be intentional
Jan whitlock
Star Wars is pretty camp
joining the chorus here to adamantly disagree with the claim here that camp must be unintentional. Saying it more times does not make it true, it just points out how off the definition is here. Drag queens work too hard for this video to be so wrong about this!
Susan Sontag: 'the pure examples of camp are unintentional'
Add the narration of this video as further proof that intentional camp is not camp.
Seeing Eric Fleming always makes me sad.
I just put TCM on . And I have to say The Phynx could possibly be in my list of top 50 worst movies.
What is camp? Sesame Street, Teletubbies, any kids show on public TV and Nickelodeon. Superman, Batman, any adventure show on prime time. Any movie, especially a "tentpole" attraction, that sells lots of tickets and popcorn. We were all raised on camp, from cradle to office desk. People just might need to learn about what is non-camp, culture that is normal.
You have no idea what you are talking about. The Batman TV show is camp. The others you mention are not.
@@michaelcrowley8082 I must be camp-blind.
I miss the feminist not the plastic surgeon who challenges Dolly! She was once my hero now she gets paid by a billionaire to "escort him"! SO SAD! I had the utmost respect for you but now you're for the gays not women's rights!
Today is D-Day and TCM hasn't had one movie commemorating this historic day. So unpatriotic.