We at Bondtech are really proud to be working with MirageC on perfecting filament 3D printing. No matter how small the required quality increments may be, at Bondtech we always strive to improve. Actions have been taken and more experimenting will be done. The reverse integrated drive gear is just the beginning. Changes in the moulds that make our plastic main gears were performed. Additional quality controls are in place to minimize the runouts. We are sketching new designs for the gripping teeth. The (r)evolution takes time but doesn't stop here. Thank you MirageC. Great job🙂
What MirageC unveiled is important. Bondtech is addressing it. However... it is a sub-prime aesthetic performance of legacy Dual Drive Technology on a direct extruder application. Always tradeoffs. Plenty advantages. This disadvantage. Now... remember the BB era, Before Bondtech. Filament feeders were very unreliable. Look at your feeders now. None is perfect but they are mostly much better. Open them up and look inside. More than 90% of you - not using LGX - will see a different flavour of Bondtech legacy Dual Drive Gear Technology. Why? Because it was state of the Art until LGX. Can we build them better? Yes! No doubt. Nothing is perfect. We are working on it. Remember we are a small company of 17 strong, always, always working with our community to improve our Dual Drive technologies, legacy and LGX. From my side, I'm looking forward to see what we all together will achieve next.
@Nuno Santiago I have a reality complex 3 Point Z axes like the HevORT and rebuild my printer 4 times because of the artifact shown in the video but never got rid of it. I would have never thought that my extruder may be the fault. I hope bondtech will come up with an upgrade for existing BMG Extruders.
It is such a pleasure to work with you guys. This investigation has now led us to the definition of the next FDM (r)evolution as you said. I would like to emphasis on one point though: BondTech has made their internal components available to hobbyists just like me for integrating them into all sorts of extruders. - Direct Drive - Shorter Path (gears to nozzle) - Different motors - FDM Printed self designed housing and tension levers. - etc... Sometimes these installations have been more demanding and may have not meet the initial design intentions. We have discovered some shortfalls because we are looking closer with a more demanding angle. I am so happy that we can now all take these lessons learned and move together to the next level! @Nuno Santiago: That new shaft is AMAZING!!!! I am getting print quality now that I have never seen before! Thank you Bondtech!
I can't imagine how many hours it took you to make all these (tests-experiments-emails-reading-sketching-video editing and a lot more). Sometimes there are videos like yours that are mind-blowing. Honestly, thank you for your effort, i hope soon this will become available for ordering. Thank you !!!
AFAIK Mihai Design was the first to identify the surface problem with dual extrusion gears / direct drive and changed to use a single with a bearing to fix it
Here in Brazil we aprecciate your work, brother. Thank you so much for this research, it will help us a lot. Keep it going! All 3D print makers in the world have to thank you.
As exciting as it is to watch you break new speed records, THIS is my favorite video so far and one that's likely to influence the entire industry. BRAVO!! 🏆🥇
This exact situation happened with CNC Kitchen on a Cetus that he was sent a long time ago. The extruder gear that was press-fit onto the motor was poorly machined and the bore was offset slightly
This brings an interesting question. If I recall correctly, extruders like the LGX and lite don't use grub screws. Hopefully someone can chime in to confirm. So in theory they shouldn't suffer that much from misalignment or such
My thinking is that althought they dont suffer from eccentricity as much, they might see filament walking in the hobb. Therefore operating at different extrusion rotation distance. But impact will be reduced by the ratio to the bigger gear diameter.
shit. Dude, you just saved me. but not from time wasted on this issue. It's been months for me now. I have a BMG clone, used in direct drive with some extra stuff going on. When I screw in the idler holder thing too far, it tends to knock the gear thingy going into the back slot out of it's slot. It sometimes also just goes out of it on it's own. I never thought about it much, just always wondered why changing the screw rotation would always fix the problem, but always only temporarily. It didn't click for me that in between each time I would at some point take apart the extruder and reassemble it, in the process making sure it goes back in it's slot, and then screw in the screw just hard enough that eventually, it goes out of the slot again, but with enough pressure back that loosening the screw would allow it to soooort of come back in. holy shit dude, this was so obscure, but completely saved me here
It looks like a bowden design creates a buffer for the extrusion that evens the flow. You lose precision from a DD yet you got those nice smooth layer lines. It's the same thing with rubber wheels and v-slot: not as precise as linear rods or rails yet for functional parts you get better surface, you lose details on figurines due to smoothing.
you know, knowing that the main issue is small wobble that becomes super noticeable because of small contact i wonder if proper printing's extruder would make the wobble better or worse it's quite heavy but it's very much so a direct drive
i would like to see some small direct drive extruders using other drive gears. maybe the hemera gears. also if Bondtech could machine the gear and the gear shaft as a single piece that would potentiallybe the best of both (except cost, that would skyrocket)
Hi, Thanks for the great explanation. What software (s) do you use for those slick dynamic animations? I don't think fusion allows animations of rendered bodies and cutaways (and also such advanced motion studies)... does it?
This is such a great breakdown of the entire subject. I can’t imagine how much time and effort went into making all of the amazing visuals for this video, but it was definitely worth it for this level of quality - thank you so much!!
Man!!! You made me laugh so hard when i saw that LSD acronym 😄 🤣 😂 Thanks for all research you have made. Incredible amount of work and frustration has gone into this. I was really happy to stand next to you in the process ...just holding your beer was an honor. 3D printing gets better because of guys like you that are passionate and refuse to abandon on your ideals. Im proud of you brother!!! You deserve a huge beer now!!! Love you!! Now rest a bit and regain your sleep that was left on the table in the garage. THANKS!!!!!
@@tobit6890 yeah i saw it.. and MirageC and I even had that same idea and dissscussed about it before we saw proper printing do it. What an awesome guy. Im a big fan of his work. The extruder is nice. The idea is nice. Just wondering how long belts will.last at high speed with abrasive material.
The animations of this channel are jaw-dropping ! So much effort and talent put to ilustrate the subject...Everything done with such professionalism ! I'm truly impressed !
After watching this video - I ran straight to patreon and signed up for the $7 tier - I loved the deep dive, attention to detail, possible solutions, and everything I saw. Thank you for your hard work!!
Didn't MihaiDesigns point this issue out 1 year ago? That its an issue in dual extruder designs. And in the end, dual extruders are kinda pointless design... as you don't need more force to push filament through, you need more melting power so you don't need more force.
MihaiDesigns has done a couple of videos troubleshooting these sorts of patterns. If you print a tapering object, the horizontal bands create a wavey moire pattern that he uses to work out how often (i.e. how many degrees turned of motor/hobbed gear) the variation occurs. Like you he found that the geared idler caused problems, but also the hobbing itself creates a very fine pattern due to ever so slightly varying diameter from the highs and lows of the hobbing.
Yes! so many aspects are impacting our prints! - Gear eccentricity - Spur gear meshing - hobb teeth - filament walk in the hobb and I am sure we will discover more as we regain control on the items of this list.
Mindblowing video, thank you very much 🤩🙏 As always, you manage to make a great balance between theory and practical show casing. A perfect balance for me personally 👍👍👍
Should test different types of extruders, like the OMG extruder. But when everyone always uses the same and keeps claiming its the "standard" or the "best", no better options will be found.
I recently tested the Microswiss NG. Haven't made a video on it yet, but first prints are looking very smooth. They have a weird thing about machining everything out of billet material, but considering the difference that even a small amount of runout can cause, I think it makes sense to be so meticulous.
@@MirageC The extruder is 2 pieces that are bolted together - the carriage plate and the extruder/heatsink. So there is probably a clean way to mount it to your printer. The other thing I noticed is that my v-groove wheels run much smoother on the Microswiss carriage plate. It re-uses the wheels that come with the Ender 3, but I think on the typical Ender 3 carriage plate, the 3 wheels are not perfectly in-plane with each-other, which adds a notable amount of friction, reduced stiffness, and wear.
@@MirageC I put a Micro Swiss NG on an Ender 3 Pro and have been seeing similar issues. I all most resigned myself to not having beautiful prints that was made via the Bowden arrangement on the Ender 3. I emailed MS tech support and they mentioned the Bowden arrangement did do some 'buffering' and offered a refund. I didn't take them up on the offer and have tried to tune out the artifact the best I can. But this is amazing and does make sense. I've only been printing about 2 years so I'm by far no where near experienced as others. I would also be interested if you were to test a MS NG and see if you find a similar situation. Thanks and you have a new subscriber
@@greatestevar I am working on a presentation about ball-bearing induced wobbles. Basically, the cheap sloppy bearings used on most v-Grove wheel machines changes the effective diameter depending on if the bearing is on-ball or off-ball. It's a simple matter of geometry.
I’m using a microswiss NG direct drive also on my ender 5 plus with linear rails, the inconsistencies still appear. The NG is geared but the actual filament gears use the same dual gear design as the normal MS DD. It’s hard to see but if you take it apart or look deep in there it’s the same gear mech that pushes filament as the normal one
A nice engineering breakdown, well done. I don't have a background in 3D printing, but I work in the steel industry where we have very similar issues in cold rolling steel. Very small eccentricities in the rolls and thickness variation in the incoming strip translate into out-of-tolerance thickness variation in the rolled sheet steel (and wobbly car doors...). You can't engineer all of it out, so you have to have a dynamic control system to allow for it. Thinking about an analogy here, you would need to have a force or displacement transducer on the idler gear, to measure the effective filament thickness, and an independent measurement of filament speed, say a pulse encoder on another idler wheel. This would enable you to measure actual mass flow through the extruder - what you really want to keep constant. You would then need a controller to apply a correction to the stepper motor drive. This would effectively have two components, a cyclic one to correct for eccentricity and a slower feedback control to allow for fulfillment thickness variation. Sounds complicated, but several million tonnes of steel a year says this sort of system works. Hope this helps!
or just get a fillament diameter sensor. no need to make the extruder extremely expensive just to put a force measuring sensor in the idler wheel. and yes extremely expensive because this thing needs to be able to do it's job without introducing more play into the idler.
Glad to hear you are working with Martin and the team at Bondtech. He is a great guy, and always working towards continuous improvement. Between the two of you I am sure you will get an excellent solution figured out.
I cannot belive you are just putting this info out for free. What an incredible deep dive into a problem nobody knew existed. I can't even fathom the time and work that went into this. From the experiments to the CAD model sims this is just downright amazing.
i cannot believe someone would NOT put this info out for free. (unless they have millions and are planning to build a company based on this idea and basicly be a greedy piece of human filth)
Hah! I had exactly this problem with my Wade-based designs years ago. (Indeed, with a sufficiently open extruder design, you can see the runout error by eye.) It turns out that a tight fit is critical for both extruder drivegears and also axis pulleys. This exact same effect occurs with XY drive pulleys. Cheap pulleys have a much wider bore than genuine pulleys, which is the entire secret to genuine Gates being better. (And I have done extensive experiments with 2GT pulleys driving a very high resolution encoder to quantify the error...) I have also been working on an even better solution for this for extrusion, too :)
I've designed a few 3D printers over the years.... And built other people's designs. This is the one part I could never get perfect - because of the time it would take to diagnose it! You did it, mate! This is without a doubt the best that happened to FDM 3D printing since Klipper. Epic video. Great work!
@MihaiDesigns was investigating similar (but different) printing artifacts last year and exposed the culprit as the gears as well (but it was their meshing)
So gearing is not straight because of a cheap set screw, the large plastic reducer is not good because it has a ton of runout.. plus the direct drive gearing having wobble..
been waiting for someone to finally put in the effort to narrow down exactly what in the extruder causes this issue. You've done a great service, and if we can improve tolerances, this is the next big upgrade in 3d printing. Maybe an easy way to fix the tolerances in bondtech style dual gears is to machine the gears with the 5mm shaft as part of the gear instead of a separate pin that gets inserted and set screwed in. if you're using a lathe to machine the majority of these gears (like you should), this will ensure it is fully concentric and honestly this wouldn't be hard to do at all. the only tolerances you'd be worried about at that point is how the shaft fits into the micro bearings and the 3d printed housing. lol just got into the part of the video where you talk to bondtech and came up with the same solution.
Well done. You might also look into how the filament is mounted. I don’t believe bowden tube is the only factor in its improvement. I’ve found a side spool mount improved consistency in the flow. Side mount puts the filament closer and directly in line with the bowden extruder. While direct drive has the spool well above the extruder and can cause lags or jumpsx in resistance pulling the filament. I’ve even found side spool holders with bearings improved flow consistency further. I did a video on that as well.
Thank you for the advice Chep. I'll have a look at your video. For my testing I used a bearing spool holder and made sure the filament output from the spool was as aligned as possible with the extruder input in order to limit interference with what I was trying to isolate.
C’est un travail de fou que tu as fait sur ce vidéo! WoW je crois que les compagnies qui conçoivent des extrudeurs ont beaucoup à apprendre de tes recherches. Merci j’ai été captivé!
You yet have to consider the dinamic forces that applies over these parts and do a simulation considering all the materials. Proper way to do the job would be to go with a full metal system which uses a metal with low deformation, high tensile strength like Titanium or some Steel alloys and variants. Also should be proper measured.
Random thought... could you do a closed loop PID controller using a compact version of your rotary flow meter to feed back actual filament flow rate? Seems like given the number of sources of error in this system you will forever be chasing your tail trying to track down these sources of error and mitigate them
Yeah this deserves at least $3 a month. Such a great in-depth explanation/breakdown of the problem that didn't go over my head. I also appreciate that I didn't have to wait months for a solutions/testing follow up video.
everything explained in this video is great. I'm not wondering why my LGX Lite seems to have this issue also. could it be drive gear and idle hears having lots runout? since there is no grub screw there is only one thing that can cause this. I hope by working with you they improve their own product standards as well. Maybe I can test the runout on these gear and see how much they might have. GREAT WORK! All of us are behind you cheering you on! Thanks for all the great work your doing for our community of plastic pushing gear heads!
This is one of the best videos I've seen, technically well explained. You have given me the answer to one of my constant problems, I have a printer built by me, all well tuned, 3 times, and it always presents these artifacts, of course it is direct drive, I had never stopped to think that those tolerances in the extruder could be the cause. You are a genius, thanks for that research, there should be more content like this and not so many empty and unprofessional videos like the ones that abound on youtube. Thanks man..!!!
Yay 1000th comment. Btw, i tested a CNC machines Extruder from Aliexpress, and yeah it is made of the best quality, still nothing made it better eventho nothing is wobbeling in it itself
Im running a heavy modded cr10 dual z with dualgear all metal on a hero me with an e3dv6. The dualgear kit from bigtreetech came with two rollerbearings inside the two geared pushers. I dont have this fancy measurement tools, BUT i got a deacent two decimal caliper. I measure the difference of my two gears to within the tolerance of the tool. I get sometimes a pattern that goes at 45% angle from base. Found that i had variation in diameter of the filament from 1.71 to 1.74. I bought better filament and now its printing like a boss. Also disable powerloss thing to get faster smoother prints :) Good luck have fun! Remember a 3dprinter in the price class you want to spend is and always will be a hobby item . U need to constantly check and calibrate and fiddle and upgrade :)
Wow, awesome vid. This is exactly the issue I was having with an OMG extruder. This video would have saved me days of chasing down the issue with mine. Even after finding my issue, I didn't fully understand what was going on until all of your hard work. Well done sir, well done.
I bought an OMG extruder too, for my Ender2 Pro. I had already replaced the stock with a SeeMeCNC EZStruder, and was getting good results. I thought I would do even better with a OMG....but it was worse.
You really got to the deepest depths of the burrow. Its almost funny that in the end everything goes full circle and bowden+a passive idler produces the best surface quality... Explains why my modded into oblivion cr10s produces worse surfaces than my brothers untouched ender.
it was proven over and over and over and over and over... on the old reprap forums. the problem is that many times "new extruders" coming out without basic knowledge which replicates these old problems.
You did very good job on that research! Narrowed it down to just one element at a time and found a problem. Hats off! What comes to my mind is that @MihaiDesigns found out that idler gear makes difference in patterns and created more angled idler door ofr prusa i3. Could be found in this vid -> "What I've learned about your 3D printers (and mine)". And it was a year ago.
Your video made me realize that these small variations in extrusion are dampened in a bowden setup since there is a tiny bit of slack in the bowden tube. Although, you don't really hear people say that bowden printers produce better quality prints.
I completely rebuilt a rather shitty da-vinci 3d printer last year as its firmware was utter garbage, and its mechanicals were.... seriously lacking. Seriously, the idler didn't even have a bearing. it was just an aluminium wheel on a steel shaft... I was chasing down accuracy issues. Repeatability was non-existant. I tightened all belts, rebuilt the x and y axis with new 3d printed parts, and even rebuilt the x sliders with hollow brass tubing on the stainless rods (that made a pretty serious difference). That idler wheel though was the main issue. That and the x axis stepper was mounted so poorly you could see it flex when reversing direction. The stiffness of the whole printer's x and y stage was atrocious. You could park the printer, and just move the print head back and forth and left and right by nearly a millimeter just by taking up slack in belts, and by the steppers flexing the thin steel construction. That idler wheel though was the main issue. Aluminium sleeve bearing? the hell... I got a bowden extruder from a chinese clone printer and put that in instead. Boom, massive boost in print accuracy. I had to adjust the flashed repetier firmware to handle the bowden, but i did notice that the stepper motor had a direct pressed on steel filament wheel. At the time i didn't really appreciate that, but thanks to this video.. makes perfect sense now. The bowden extruder unit i have is direct drive with a ball bearing pushing the filament onto the toothed wheel, so no issues with gears OR toothed wheel eccentricity. I print a lot of small parts, so the bowden extruder gave me a hit in print speed due to a lot of retractions, but definite boost in accuracy. I still have a z wobble due to the Z screw being terrible quality, and the bed linear bearings having a good 500 microns of movement as they really didnt size them well but for the small parts i print its not that big an issue for me. But thank you for this video, the time spent eliminating variables from the process would have been extensive. From this video though, i can safely assume that direct drive bowdens with pressed on toothed wheels and ball bearing idlers will at least eliminate 1 serious potential issue. I had to redo my filament extruder multiplier due to the new bowden extruder toothed wheel having a different diameter, but once i calibrated that, the printer is at least 10 times the quality of its original design. On a side note, i have a makerbot replicator that uses a direct drive extruder, but once again, its a pressed on toothed wheel, and a ball bearing extruder that i made for it as a self upgrade, and its STILL one of the most accurate and repeatable printers i have (i have 3 atm). I ended up putting in a watercooled hot end on the makerbot for shits and giggles. Thank you for this video!! Lots of hard work!
I like the ideas presented in the research and I agree with you but I think you didn't directly explore the fundamental concept underlying the issue you presented. At the end of the day, our printers are governed by volumetric flow rate. However, most slicers don't treat the control of the filament that way. Slicer's assume that printers have a consistent volume going in at the point of the drive/extruder gear versus going out of the extruder nozzle. Unfortunately we only can set "a linear speed" in the slicer there is an error in the volumetric flow rate because of the material thermal expansion could be assumed to be isochoric in the nozzle and without a location to go besides out the nozzle. Could it be that any tiny back-pressure changes caused by the drive gear is amplified because of the die swell effect and the lack of direct control that most printers have over the volumetric flow rate of the filament? Oh an lastly, you may also be experiencing vibrational resonance (given that you didn't see the artifact at lower prints speeds but did at higher speeds) in your extruder assembly, one thing that might be interesting is rotating the screw position (or the clocked position of the extruder stepper motor) effectively changing the resonance of the extruder assembly to see how that effects your prints. **Edit: skip the part about the resonance, I hadn't watched your videos exploring that side before watching this one.
It's simple, if you want smooth and fast prints - don't use FDM printers. FDM is only for fun tinkering with it and maybe if the parts are stressed. Too many components, too many settings to be reliable or worth the time waste compared to resin. To create a good FDM printer, the amount of variables ruining the results need to be drastically reduced. Or at least, there should be sensors able to detect deviation in precision and tell what's wrong. In current state, FDM is guesswork.
A year ago a stumbled across a video explaining why dual drive extruders are flawed. You might wanna take a look at it: ua-cam.com/video/32dTLRNIYmw/v-deo.html
Hahahah maybe I should have been born in Canada. I always mix metric and American units. I prefer whatever measurement is more incremental or has a finer resolution. Or if you just need an analogy usually the one with around a tens pace of units would do for a measure of scale.
A single drive gear with a spring loaded idler should take care of this issue, the mk8 drive assembly design has this built in, and I haven't had any banding issues since starting to use this type.
Great video. I have always been a proponent of direct drive, but the springy effect of a bowden tube does have some advantages after all! I assume with large gear extruders, like the LGX, there will be reduce issues with consistency, because even if the filament shifts around front to back, the relative diameter change will be less. Also the straight-tooth gears in the Sprite hotend don't sound like such a bad idea anymore!
i have vertical repeating artifacts on my bedslinger only on the Y side moves. i think you just helped me narrow it down to the y belt idler either being eccentric or off parallel. spent way to much money on the big items already. sometimes it is the small cheap things that get incorrectly overlooked.
Now I don't feel crazy for making frankenstein extruders out of 2 different chinese clones of the same basic design- to get the exact tolerances I want.
Salut! La prochaine fois, pour presser des shafts sur des.. n'importe quoi, tu peux mettre le shaft au congélateur pendant quelques heures, et mettre le coté femelle (dans ce cas ci la gear de plastique) à la chaleur (relative). le sahft va contracter et le coté femele expandre, et ca devrait mieux passer. cE'st assez standard comme pratique pour tout ce qui est press fit....
{CHECK THIS OUT MY PRECIOUS ENGINEER FRIEND } The filament diameter is also different in different sections, and its change the distance between the a gears.... so u should check the omg v2 extruder... the konception is also based on dual gear BUT IN AVERY DIFFERENT WAY
Yes filament diameter variation will affect in several ways, one of them being the gear mesh distance. As for the OMG v2 extruder how does it avoid the two gear sets from fighting each other due to mfg tolerances, filament centering in the hobb grove, and filament diameter variation? These variations will have an impact on the rotation distance. how to precisely keep them identical at all time?
Hey Mirage have you see the "Libra MINI Extruder" this uses a sort of double helical gear drive. This would self center the griping surface wouldn't it?!
Now I have true paranoia - the last two extruders I built (using bondtech stuff because of course), both had eccentricities... you could tell because when you pull filament through to line up the gears and test it before the stepper goes on, it had variable force around spur gear angle as you pulled. Yikes!
Do we really need dual gear extruders for classic / conventional materials: PLA, ABS etc. Titan like simple extruders works fine with classic materials. Maybe back to basics ;)
Per my hotend testing this is exactly what I am demonstrating.... Pressure is only required for getting you through or out of clogging situations. Printing under pressure is not a good idea for a lot of reasons ;)
We at Bondtech are really proud to be working with MirageC on perfecting filament 3D printing. No matter how small the required quality increments may be, at Bondtech we always strive to improve. Actions have been taken and more experimenting will be done. The reverse integrated drive gear is just the beginning. Changes in the moulds that make our plastic main gears were performed. Additional quality controls are in place to minimize the runouts. We are sketching new designs for the gripping teeth.
The (r)evolution takes time but doesn't stop here.
Thank you MirageC.
Great job🙂
How would LGX Lite gears play into this?
Is the normal BMG Extruder also effected by the Problems shown in the video?
What MirageC unveiled is important. Bondtech is addressing it. However... it is a sub-prime aesthetic performance of legacy Dual Drive Technology on a direct extruder application. Always tradeoffs. Plenty advantages. This disadvantage.
Now... remember the BB era, Before Bondtech. Filament feeders were very unreliable. Look at your feeders now. None is perfect but they are mostly much better. Open them up and look inside. More than 90% of you - not using LGX - will see a different flavour of Bondtech legacy Dual Drive Gear Technology. Why? Because it was state of the Art until LGX.
Can we build them better? Yes! No doubt. Nothing is perfect. We are working on it.
Remember we are a small company of 17 strong, always, always working with our community to improve our Dual Drive technologies, legacy and LGX. From my side, I'm looking forward to see what we all together will achieve next.
@Nuno Santiago I have a reality complex 3 Point Z axes like the HevORT and rebuild my printer 4 times because of the artifact shown in the video but never got rid of it. I would have never thought that my extruder may be the fault. I hope bondtech will come up with an upgrade for existing BMG Extruders.
It is such a pleasure to work with you guys. This investigation has now led us to the definition of the next FDM (r)evolution as you said.
I would like to emphasis on one point though:
BondTech has made their internal components available to hobbyists just like me for integrating them into all sorts of extruders.
- Direct Drive
- Shorter Path (gears to nozzle)
- Different motors
- FDM Printed self designed housing and tension levers.
- etc...
Sometimes these installations have been more demanding and may have not meet the initial design intentions. We have discovered some shortfalls because we are looking closer with a more demanding angle.
I am so happy that we can now all take these lessons learned and move together to the next level!
@Nuno Santiago: That new shaft is AMAZING!!!! I am getting print quality now that I have never seen before!
Thank you Bondtech!
Ok, that is by far the best 3D printing video that I’ve seen.
RIght? 3D printing nerd would be like "hey guys, look at this other person's model I am using and printing at 400%!"
@@androiduberalles true. His is more into broad public, but I am more into hardcore maker and engineering. And this video, is engineering at its best.
Same.
I agree
I can't imagine how many hours it took you to make all these (tests-experiments-emails-reading-sketching-video editing and a lot more). Sometimes there are videos like yours that are mind-blowing. Honestly, thank you for your effort, i hope soon this will become available for ordering. Thank you !!!
AFAIK Mihai Design was the first to identify the surface problem with dual extrusion gears / direct drive and changed to use a single with a bearing to fix it
Here in Brazil we aprecciate your work, brother. Thank you so much for this research, it will help us a lot. Keep it going! All 3D print makers in the world have to thank you.
One of THE MOST informative videos I’ve seen! Thanks!
As exciting as it is to watch you break new speed records, THIS is my favorite video so far and one that's likely to influence the entire industry.
BRAVO!! 🏆🥇
This is a brilliant observation! Props to your diligence!
This exact situation happened with CNC Kitchen on a Cetus that he was sent a long time ago. The extruder gear that was press-fit onto the motor was poorly machined and the bore was offset slightly
This brings an interesting question. If I recall correctly, extruders like the LGX and lite don't use grub screws. Hopefully someone can chime in to confirm. So in theory they shouldn't suffer that much from misalignment or such
My thinking is that althought they dont suffer from eccentricity as much, they might see filament walking in the hobb. Therefore operating at different extrusion rotation distance. But impact will be reduced by the ratio to the bigger gear diameter.
Oh that makes sense, very interesting. Wonder if that's why I always think that Prusa prints look like they have ridges...
shit.
Dude, you just saved me. but not from time wasted on this issue. It's been months for me now.
I have a BMG clone, used in direct drive with some extra stuff going on. When I screw in the idler holder thing too far, it tends to knock the gear thingy going into the back slot out of it's slot. It sometimes also just goes out of it on it's own.
I never thought about it much, just always wondered why changing the screw rotation would always fix the problem, but always only temporarily. It didn't click for me that in between each time I would at some point take apart the extruder and reassemble it, in the process making sure it goes back in it's slot, and then screw in the screw just hard enough that eventually, it goes out of the slot again, but with enough pressure back that loosening the screw would allow it to soooort of come back in.
holy shit dude, this was so obscure, but completely saved me here
Way to make 3D print even more exciting holy crap not being sarcastic I honestly had to watch this 3 times
It looks like a bowden design creates a buffer for the extrusion that evens the flow. You lose precision from a DD yet you got those nice smooth layer lines. It's the same thing with rubber wheels and v-slot: not as precise as linear rods or rails yet for functional parts you get better surface, you lose details on figurines due to smoothing.
Fantastic video, thank you for your work!
you know, knowing that the main issue is small wobble that becomes super noticeable because of small contact
i wonder if proper printing's extruder would make the wobble better or worse
it's quite heavy but it's very much so a direct drive
I have the same interrogation itching my brain 😉
i would like to see some small direct drive extruders using other drive gears. maybe the hemera gears. also if Bondtech could machine the gear and the gear shaft as a single piece that would potentiallybe the best of both (except cost, that would skyrocket)
Thanks for the amazing research! What do you think about the Bondtech LGX extruder? Is it better than the old style?
Incredible!!! Woww! Subscribed !!!
Lighting means everything for a good picture like my profile pic.
Hi, Thanks for the great explanation. What software (s) do you use for those slick dynamic animations? I don't think fusion allows animations of rendered bodies and cutaways (and also such advanced motion studies)... does it?
Yes, it's all in Fusion360.
Great job!!!
Have you considered a rolling-screw extruder?
what I find funny is that a straight gear which is used in the cheapest printers wouldn't have those problems
Could you publish stl (or better step) for this measurement device?
Bro wrote and validated an entire PhD thesis and thought we wouldn't notice.
What an incredible work. Subscribed.
an incredible work
This is such a great breakdown of the entire subject. I can’t imagine how much time and effort went into making all of the amazing visuals for this video, but it was definitely worth it for this level of quality - thank you so much!!
Thank you 😊
@@MirageC Great thorough analysis! Liked and subscribed!
Man!!! You made me laugh so hard when i saw that LSD acronym 😄 🤣 😂 Thanks for all research you have made. Incredible amount of work and frustration has gone into this. I was really happy to stand next to you in the process ...just holding your beer was an honor. 3D printing gets better because of guys like you that are passionate and refuse to abandon on your ideals. Im proud of you brother!!! You deserve a huge beer now!!! Love you!! Now rest a bit and regain your sleep that was left on the table in the garage. THANKS!!!!!
Yeah.... passion and sleep don't mix well.. but you know that already! Thanks again for all of your "moral" support! 😜
@vez3d same goes for you!
Have you seen Proper Printings belted extruder? What do you think about that?
I lol'ed out loud at your 3d printing love. If you guys loop in Stephan from CNC kitchen, you'll have a super high quality 3d printing thruple.
@@tobit6890 yeah i saw it.. and MirageC and I even had that same idea and dissscussed about it before we saw proper printing do it. What an awesome guy. Im a big fan of his work. The extruder is nice. The idea is nice. Just wondering how long belts will.last at high speed with abrasive material.
The animations of this channel are jaw-dropping ! So much effort and talent put to ilustrate the subject...Everything done with such professionalism !
I'm truly impressed !
Glad you enjoy it!
@@MirageC Every micron count's. And you are def on the right track.
Enjoyed your, looking at my stock Ender 3.
After watching this video - I ran straight to patreon and signed up for the $7 tier - I loved the deep dive, attention to detail, possible solutions, and everything I saw. Thank you for your hard work!!
Oh wow! Thank you for your support man! :)
I've heard it was the backlash from the idler -- but this makes SO much more sense. Thanks for this!
Yes, backlash, gear mesh, filament walking in the hobb, hobb eccentricity, they are all contributors. Thank you
Didn't MihaiDesigns point this issue out 1 year ago? That its an issue in dual extruder designs. And in the end, dual extruders are kinda pointless design... as you don't need more force to push filament through, you need more melting power so you don't need more force.
@@Nobody-Nowhere and also better hotend cooling for retraction.
MihaiDesigns has done a couple of videos troubleshooting these sorts of patterns. If you print a tapering object, the horizontal bands create a wavey moire pattern that he uses to work out how often (i.e. how many degrees turned of motor/hobbed gear) the variation occurs. Like you he found that the geared idler caused problems, but also the hobbing itself creates a very fine pattern due to ever so slightly varying diameter from the highs and lows of the hobbing.
Yes! so many aspects are impacting our prints!
- Gear eccentricity
- Spur gear meshing
- hobb teeth
- filament walk in the hobb
and I am sure we will discover more as we regain control on the items of this list.
Mindblowing video, thank you very much 🤩🙏 As always, you manage to make a great balance between theory and practical show casing. A perfect balance for me personally 👍👍👍
Thank you very much! Thanks for the feedback Albert! Cheers!
@UCg1_CKT8bGmaqTpPbL8EDJg Mihai pointed at the gear meshing. If you look at 6:37 I have ruled out that phenomenon from my analysis.
I really hope this can be modded into the latest stealthburner too, and overall becomes a new extruder standard
Should test different types of extruders, like the OMG extruder. But when everyone always uses the same and keeps claiming its the "standard" or the "best", no better options will be found.
excellent work on analyzing this! 👏😎
Thanks man!
Yeah, seriously! I would never have thought about the extruder gears being an issue. He really opened my eyes to something that never crossed my mind.
Ender 3 v2s can never be properly tuned. It is fvcked up and the z bar is always slanted
I recently tested the Microswiss NG. Haven't made a video on it yet, but first prints are looking very smooth. They have a weird thing about machining everything out of billet material, but considering the difference that even a small amount of runout can cause, I think it makes sense to be so meticulous.
Yes. I am curious to try microswiss item as well.
@@MirageC The extruder is 2 pieces that are bolted together - the carriage plate and the extruder/heatsink. So there is probably a clean way to mount it to your printer.
The other thing I noticed is that my v-groove wheels run much smoother on the Microswiss carriage plate. It re-uses the wheels that come with the Ender 3, but I think on the typical Ender 3 carriage plate, the 3 wheels are not perfectly in-plane with each-other, which adds a notable amount of friction, reduced stiffness, and wear.
@@MirageC I put a Micro Swiss NG on an Ender 3 Pro and have been seeing similar issues. I all most resigned myself to not having beautiful prints that was made via the Bowden arrangement on the Ender 3. I emailed MS tech support and they mentioned the Bowden arrangement did do some 'buffering' and offered a refund. I didn't take them up on the offer and have tried to tune out the artifact the best I can.
But this is amazing and does make sense. I've only been printing about 2 years so I'm by far no where near experienced as others.
I would also be interested if you were to test a MS NG and see if you find a similar situation.
Thanks and you have a new subscriber
@@greatestevar I am working on a presentation about ball-bearing induced wobbles. Basically, the cheap sloppy bearings used on most v-Grove wheel machines changes the effective diameter depending on if the bearing is on-ball or off-ball. It's a simple matter of geometry.
I’m using a microswiss NG direct drive also on my ender 5 plus with linear rails, the inconsistencies still appear. The NG is geared but the actual filament gears use the same dual gear design as the normal MS DD. It’s hard to see but if you take it apart or look deep in there it’s the same gear mech that pushes filament as the normal one
I’m and Engineer out of the U.K. and this is really good concise work. Nice engineering! Hope to see improvement in the market after your work! 👍🏻
A nice engineering breakdown, well done. I don't have a background in 3D printing, but I work in the steel industry where we have very similar issues in cold rolling steel. Very small eccentricities in the rolls and thickness variation in the incoming strip translate into out-of-tolerance thickness variation in the rolled sheet steel (and wobbly car doors...). You can't engineer all of it out, so you have to have a dynamic control system to allow for it. Thinking about an analogy here, you would need to have a force or displacement transducer on the idler gear, to measure the effective filament thickness, and an independent measurement of filament speed, say a pulse encoder on another idler wheel. This would enable you to measure actual mass flow through the extruder - what you really want to keep constant. You would then need a controller to apply a correction to the stepper motor drive. This would effectively have two components, a cyclic one to correct for eccentricity and a slower feedback control to allow for fulfillment thickness variation. Sounds complicated, but several million tonnes of steel a year says this sort of system works. Hope this helps!
or just get a fillament diameter sensor. no need to make the extruder extremely expensive just to put a force measuring sensor in the idler wheel.
and yes extremely expensive because this thing needs to be able to do it's job without introducing more play into the idler.
This is very interesting! I appreciate the research you have done
I started with 3d printing in february and have been hunting the same problem ever since. Thank you, I'm not crazy or too picky!
This issue has prevented me from going all out with my printer design. Now know where to focus.
Glad to hear you are working with Martin and the team at Bondtech. He is a great guy, and always working towards continuous improvement. Between the two of you I am sure you will get an excellent solution figured out.
I cannot belive you are just putting this info out for free. What an incredible deep dive into a problem nobody knew existed. I can't even fathom the time and work that went into this. From the experiments to the CAD model sims this is just downright amazing.
i cannot believe someone would NOT put this info out for free. (unless they have millions and are planning to build a company based on this idea and basicly be a greedy piece of human filth)
Hah! I had exactly this problem with my Wade-based designs years ago. (Indeed, with a sufficiently open extruder design, you can see the runout error by eye.) It turns out that a tight fit is critical for both extruder drivegears and also axis pulleys. This exact same effect occurs with XY drive pulleys. Cheap pulleys have a much wider bore than genuine pulleys, which is the entire secret to genuine Gates being better. (And I have done extensive experiments with 2GT pulleys driving a very high resolution encoder to quantify the error...) I have also been working on an even better solution for this for extrusion, too :)
I've designed a few 3D printers over the years.... And built other people's designs. This is the one part I could never get perfect - because of the time it would take to diagnose it! You did it, mate! This is without a doubt the best that happened to FDM 3D printing since Klipper. Epic video. Great work!
@MihaiDesigns was investigating similar (but different) printing artifacts last year and exposed the culprit as the gears as well (but it was their meshing)
Brilliant determination and use of the scientific method to discover something overlooked by many, myself included.
So gearing is not straight because of a cheap set screw, the large plastic reducer is not good because it has a ton of runout.. plus the direct drive gearing having wobble..
Nice video!
There's a video on CNC kitchen where he discovered a similar problem after a long search. I think it was about 8 months ago.
My next question: How is the Bondtech LGX family of extruders affected by these runout/misalignment issues? Better? Worse? Apples and oranges?
been waiting for someone to finally put in the effort to narrow down exactly what in the extruder causes this issue. You've done a great service, and if we can improve tolerances, this is the next big upgrade in 3d printing.
Maybe an easy way to fix the tolerances in bondtech style dual gears is to machine the gears with the 5mm shaft as part of the gear instead of a separate pin that gets inserted and set screwed in. if you're using a lathe to machine the majority of these gears (like you should), this will ensure it is fully concentric and honestly this wouldn't be hard to do at all. the only tolerances you'd be worried about at that point is how the shaft fits into the micro bearings and the 3d printed housing.
lol just got into the part of the video where you talk to bondtech and came up with the same solution.
Well done. You might also look into how the filament is mounted. I don’t believe bowden tube is the only factor in its improvement. I’ve found a side spool mount improved consistency in the flow. Side mount puts the filament closer and directly in line with the bowden extruder. While direct drive has the spool well above the extruder and can cause lags or jumpsx in resistance pulling the filament. I’ve even found side spool holders with bearings improved flow consistency further. I did a video on that as well.
Thank you for the advice Chep. I'll have a look at your video. For my testing I used a bearing spool holder and made sure the filament output from the spool was as aligned as possible with the extruder input in order to limit interference with what I was trying to isolate.
C’est un travail de fou que tu as fait sur ce vidéo! WoW je crois que les compagnies qui conçoivent des extrudeurs ont beaucoup à apprendre de tes recherches. Merci j’ai été captivé!
Merci! Oui en effet! Beaucoup de travail... ou d'entêtement... je ne sais plus où tracer la ligne...
You yet have to consider the dinamic forces that applies over these parts and do a simulation considering all the materials.
Proper way to do the job would be to go with a full metal system which uses a metal with low deformation, high tensile strength like Titanium or some Steel alloys and variants. Also should be proper measured.
Bondtech, Mitutoyo, Wera, what a feast for the discerning viewer!
So, what about the proper printing proper extruder, which uses belts to push the filament? That would eliminate this kind of variation
Exactly what I was thinking. I already wanted to try a belt based feeder as that is common in other applications, like wire confectioning and such.
Random thought... could you do a closed loop PID controller using a compact version of your rotary flow meter to feed back actual filament flow rate? Seems like given the number of sources of error in this system you will forever be chasing your tail trying to track down these sources of error and mitigate them
yes that would be an excellent system to implement,
Yeah this deserves at least $3 a month. Such a great in-depth explanation/breakdown of the problem that didn't go over my head. I also appreciate that I didn't have to wait months for a solutions/testing follow up video.
everything explained in this video is great. I'm not wondering why my LGX Lite seems to have this issue also. could it be drive gear and idle hears having lots runout? since there is no grub screw there is only one thing that can cause this. I hope by working with you they improve their own product standards as well. Maybe I can test the runout on these gear and see how much they might have. GREAT WORK! All of us are behind you cheering you on! Thanks for all the great work your doing for our community of plastic pushing gear heads!
A much bigger extruder gear would reduce the error from misalignment. Downside is that the motor would need more torque to match
Yes. This is one part of the solution I am looking at.
This is one of the best videos I've seen, technically well explained. You have given me the answer to one of my constant problems, I have a printer built by me, all well tuned, 3 times, and it always presents these artifacts, of course it is direct drive, I had never stopped to think that those tolerances in the extruder could be the cause. You are a genius, thanks for that research, there should be more content like this and not so many empty and unprofessional videos like the ones that abound on youtube. Thanks man..!!!
I don't want fast prints, I want GOOD prints!
This was amazing! I wish more videos online would have this high of a quality research and info .
Amazing Vid! Once I get my xy-motion system figured out, this will be a great guide on diagnosing a poor extruder.
Awesome information! I love it! Awesome work! Love those belt clips as well! Appreciate all that you do!
CNC Kitchen did make a Video about the same problem a year ago. Its calles "(HOW) I fixed the Ugly Layers on my 3D Printer"
But i liked yours more ^^
I am glad that i became a Patreon thank you for all what you bring to the 3d printing community❤
Thank you for your support! It means a lot to me.
Yay 1000th comment. Btw, i tested a CNC machines Extruder from Aliexpress, and yeah it is made of the best quality, still nothing made it better eventho nothing is wobbeling in it itself
Thanks for pushing the 3D Printing limits even further. Great dedication, this is the content I'm rooting for.
Glad you like it!
Im running a heavy modded cr10 dual z with dualgear all metal on a hero me with an e3dv6. The dualgear kit from bigtreetech came with two rollerbearings inside the two geared pushers. I dont have this fancy measurement tools, BUT i got a deacent two decimal caliper. I measure the difference of my two gears to within the tolerance of the tool. I get sometimes a pattern that goes at 45% angle from base.
Found that i had variation in diameter of the filament from 1.71 to 1.74. I bought better filament and now its printing like a boss. Also disable powerloss thing to get faster smoother prints :) Good luck have fun!
Remember a 3dprinter in the price class you want to spend is and always will be a hobby item . U need to constantly check and calibrate and fiddle and upgrade :)
Wow, awesome vid. This is exactly the issue I was having with an OMG extruder. This video would have saved me days of chasing down the issue with mine. Even after finding my issue, I didn't fully understand what was going on until all of your hard work. Well done sir, well done.
This issue almost had me to put an axe in the printer a few times. Glad I found the source. Now I need to work on the solution.
I bought an OMG extruder too, for my Ender2 Pro. I had already replaced the stock with a SeeMeCNC EZStruder, and was getting good results. I thought I would do even better with a OMG....but it was worse.
You really got to the deepest depths of the burrow. Its almost funny that in the end everything goes full circle and bowden+a passive idler produces the best surface quality... Explains why my modded into oblivion cr10s produces worse surfaces than my brothers untouched ender.
This was amazing! Your results really show how important it is to spend the time to isolate variables in research.
it was proven over and over and over and over and over... on the old reprap forums.
the problem is that many times "new extruders" coming out without basic knowledge which replicates these old problems.
You did very good job on that research! Narrowed it down to just one element at a time and found a problem. Hats off!
What comes to my mind is that @MihaiDesigns found out that idler gear makes difference in patterns and created more angled idler door ofr prusa i3. Could be found in this vid -> "What I've learned about your 3D printers (and mine)". And it was a year ago.
Your video made me realize that these small variations in extrusion are dampened in a bowden setup since there is a tiny bit of slack in the bowden tube. Although, you don't really hear people say that bowden printers produce better quality prints.
I completely rebuilt a rather shitty da-vinci 3d printer last year as its firmware was utter garbage, and its mechanicals were.... seriously lacking. Seriously, the idler didn't even have a bearing. it was just an aluminium wheel on a steel shaft... I was chasing down accuracy issues. Repeatability was non-existant. I tightened all belts, rebuilt the x and y axis with new 3d printed parts, and even rebuilt the x sliders with hollow brass tubing on the stainless rods (that made a pretty serious difference). That idler wheel though was the main issue. That and the x axis stepper was mounted so poorly you could see it flex when reversing direction. The stiffness of the whole printer's x and y stage was atrocious. You could park the printer, and just move the print head back and forth and left and right by nearly a millimeter just by taking up slack in belts, and by the steppers flexing the thin steel construction. That idler wheel though was the main issue. Aluminium sleeve bearing? the hell...
I got a bowden extruder from a chinese clone printer and put that in instead. Boom, massive boost in print accuracy. I had to adjust the flashed repetier firmware to handle the bowden, but i did notice that the stepper motor had a direct pressed on steel filament wheel. At the time i didn't really appreciate that, but thanks to this video.. makes perfect sense now. The bowden extruder unit i have is direct drive with a ball bearing pushing the filament onto the toothed wheel, so no issues with gears OR toothed wheel eccentricity. I print a lot of small parts, so the bowden extruder gave me a hit in print speed due to a lot of retractions, but definite boost in accuracy.
I still have a z wobble due to the Z screw being terrible quality, and the bed linear bearings having a good 500 microns of movement as they really didnt size them well but for the small parts i print its not that big an issue for me.
But thank you for this video, the time spent eliminating variables from the process would have been extensive. From this video though, i can safely assume that direct drive bowdens with pressed on toothed wheels and ball bearing idlers will at least eliminate 1 serious potential issue. I had to redo my filament extruder multiplier due to the new bowden extruder toothed wheel having a different diameter, but once i calibrated that, the printer is at least 10 times the quality of its original design.
On a side note, i have a makerbot replicator that uses a direct drive extruder, but once again, its a pressed on toothed wheel, and a ball bearing extruder that i made for it as a self upgrade, and its STILL one of the most accurate and repeatable printers i have (i have 3 atm). I ended up putting in a watercooled hot end on the makerbot for shits and giggles.
Thank you for this video!! Lots of hard work!
I like the ideas presented in the research and I agree with you but I think you didn't directly explore the fundamental concept underlying the issue you presented. At the end of the day, our printers are governed by volumetric flow rate. However, most slicers don't treat the control of the filament that way. Slicer's assume that printers have a consistent volume going in at the point of the drive/extruder gear versus going out of the extruder nozzle. Unfortunately we only can set "a linear speed" in the slicer there is an error in the volumetric flow rate because of the material thermal expansion could be assumed to be isochoric in the nozzle and without a location to go besides out the nozzle. Could it be that any tiny back-pressure changes caused by the drive gear is amplified because of the die swell effect and the lack of direct control that most printers have over the volumetric flow rate of the filament? Oh an lastly, you may also be experiencing vibrational resonance (given that you didn't see the artifact at lower prints speeds but did at higher speeds) in your extruder assembly, one thing that might be interesting is rotating the screw position (or the clocked position of the extruder stepper motor) effectively changing the resonance of the extruder assembly to see how that effects your prints. **Edit: skip the part about the resonance, I hadn't watched your videos exploring that side before watching this one.
It's simple, if you want smooth and fast prints - don't use FDM printers. FDM is only for fun tinkering with it and maybe if the parts are stressed. Too many components, too many settings to be reliable or worth the time waste compared to resin. To create a good FDM printer, the amount of variables ruining the results need to be drastically reduced. Or at least, there should be sensors able to detect deviation in precision and tell what's wrong. In current state, FDM is guesswork.
single piece hobb gear + bearing on idler -> titan extruder???
although titan extruder uses nema 17 stepper...
A year ago a stumbled across a video explaining why dual drive extruders are flawed. You might wanna take a look at it: ua-cam.com/video/32dTLRNIYmw/v-deo.html
Just get a factory assembled PRUSA MK3 and save yourself the stress.
Hummm not so sure... apparently they are affected by the same issue... github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware/issues/602
Hahahah maybe I should have been born in Canada. I always mix metric and American units. I prefer whatever measurement is more incremental or has a finer resolution. Or if you just need an analogy usually the one with around a tens pace of units would do for a measure of scale.
Amazing video! I have always had issues with the layer stacking of direct drive! Finally someone figured it out!
Looks like the French Canadians are becoming the best 3D Printers.
Now that I have this information it's hard to not want to use it
A single drive gear with a spring loaded idler should take care of this issue, the mk8 drive assembly design has this built in, and I haven't had any banding issues since starting to use this type.
Easily the best 3D printing video ive ever seen with a very deep analysis and testable elimination to find the root cause, you earned my sub.
So single feed gear extruders are smoother is your conclusion? Thank you Creality.
Great video. I have always been a proponent of direct drive, but the springy effect of a bowden tube does have some advantages after all!
I assume with large gear extruders, like the LGX, there will be reduce issues with consistency, because even if the filament shifts around front to back, the relative diameter change will be less. Also the straight-tooth gears in the Sprite hotend don't sound like such a bad idea anymore!
I too am interested in results from larger geared extruders and configurations/designs outside of the traditional bondtech assembly.
i have vertical repeating artifacts on my bedslinger only on the Y side moves. i think you just helped me narrow it down to the y belt idler either being eccentric or off parallel. spent way to much money on the big items already. sometimes it is the small cheap things that get incorrectly overlooked.
you may want to try this then ua-cam.com/video/-LdFmPYItb0/v-deo.html the belts might provide deformable path length to smooth the ripples
Now I don't feel crazy for making frankenstein extruders out of 2 different chinese clones of the same basic design- to get the exact tolerances I want.
Salut!
La prochaine fois, pour presser des shafts sur des.. n'importe quoi, tu peux mettre le shaft au congélateur pendant quelques heures, et mettre le coté femelle (dans ce cas ci la gear de plastique) à la chaleur (relative). le sahft va contracter et le coté femele expandre, et ca devrait mieux passer. cE'st assez standard comme pratique pour tout ce qui est press fit....
In a nutshell: If your extruder gear wobbles, you will see print artifacts. :)
{CHECK THIS OUT MY PRECIOUS ENGINEER FRIEND }
The filament diameter is also different in different sections, and its change the distance between the a gears.... so u should check the omg v2 extruder... the konception is also based on dual gear BUT IN AVERY DIFFERENT WAY
Yes filament diameter variation will affect in several ways, one of them being the gear mesh distance. As for the OMG v2 extruder how does it avoid the two gear sets from fighting each other due to mfg tolerances, filament centering in the hobb grove, and filament diameter variation? These variations will have an impact on the rotation distance. how to precisely keep them identical at all time?
this video is very good!! Could you please put subtitles in Spanish?
I've found a good de-contaminated airflow in a enclosed, sturdy box with vibration dampening boosts the quality by an insane margin
Hey Mirage have you see the "Libra MINI Extruder" this uses a sort of double helical gear drive. This would self center the griping surface wouldn't it?!
Thats what j use on the vz-hextrudort and no..that doesnt fix that issue unfortunately. Its the filament that moves on the gear...not the gear itself
Now I have true paranoia - the last two extruders I built (using bondtech stuff because of course), both had eccentricities... you could tell because when you pull filament through to line up the gears and test it before the stepper goes on, it had variable force around spur gear angle as you pulled. Yikes!
Yes, that new integrated gear makes a whole difference on that perspective.
Do we really need dual gear extruders for classic / conventional materials: PLA, ABS etc. Titan like simple extruders works fine with classic materials. Maybe back to basics ;)
Per my hotend testing this is exactly what I am demonstrating.... Pressure is only required for getting you through or out of clogging situations. Printing under pressure is not a good idea for a lot of reasons ;)