I'm reminded of the time when I was a kid and I encountered a scrapped washing machine. Among other things I pulled a "germicidal lamp" (it said so right on it) out of it, which was wired with a "ballast" consisting of basically a series inductor about the size of a small audio transformer. And yes, it did work when I applied some power...
@@bigclivedotcom thank you, majestic crispy voice man. I guess I haven’t been getting the notifications for a while. So I’m glad to see more stuff. BRAVO, see you in a couple days lol.
These ozone lamps also make good light sources for erasing UV EPROMs. My first eraser (somewhere around 50 years ago) used an incandescent lamp ballast mounted outside a coffee can and a clothes dryer UV lamp inside. Invert the can over your EPROMs, add power and Bob's your uncle.
Been obsessed with arc lamps my entire life. This is the smallest that I know of. It's so cute about time someone shows the proper power supply for it.. Negative resistance is complex no one explains much on that either. amazing whoever engineered this clever lamp that is not self ballasted. Self ignition as the resistance and electron emission goes up, arc established... Love to see one hand made 100 X scale.
I forgot to mention when I first watched this, E17 is a standard base used here in America, like the E12 in your one other video. The E17 is called "Intermediate" base. Here's a quick rundown of the American sizes (note that the two larger ones are only 1mm off of those used in Europe): E12: Candelabra E17: Intermediate E26: Medium (compare to Europe's E27) E39: Mogul (compare to Europe's E40).
I got a couple of those lamps last time you featured them, just run from a transformer with a beefy resistor in series, great for de oderising walking boots!
I remember growing up in the 60's and my parents had a GE dryer that used an "Ozone Bulb." Current regulation was very primitive, simply a 40 watt lamp in series with it, running across the 110 volt mains. (voltage has gone up over the years here in the states.) A little bit of googling revealed it to be a GE G4S11 lamp that looked about the size of a ping-pong ball.
I got one several years ago. 100 bucks, Worth every penny. Great for quick work on the bench or having to work on a car because it's battery powered. Runs and charges USB. Battery will keep it going for about 3hrs. Not ideal as your main oscilloscope.
@@Mr.Unacceptable You can get them board-only for $20-$40 now. Have a look on fleabay for the DSO-138, DSO-150 etc. They are limited to about 200kHz but if you don't have hundreds to drop on a "real" scope then they are a very useful addition to the hobby workbench. Mustool also have a DMM style unit for about $40-$50 which I don't know much about.
There's also the DSO Quad which is about the highest performance one in the form factor that I'm aware of. Apparently it has an upgrade now, DS213, increasing the bandwidth to 15mhz
And the cap in series with the secondary and lamp looks like it could be resonant too. It's like a weird cross between a Tesla coil and a TPTG oscillator... except there's no obvious feedback from the secondary to the primary. Does the secondary reactance change sufficiently when the tube lights to stabilize the primary frequency?
@@markfergerson2145 The secondary capacitor (and the load of the lamp) would be reflected across to the primary multiplied by the turns ratio of the transformer squared. Dunno how big of a role it'd play.
Ooohs! I got a bunch of these lamps last time you 'promoted' them.. Now there is a matching driver! Thank you! Much easier to drive and hopefully a nice long life. I'll make it into a nice UV curing chamber for things.
@@bigclivedotcom Then I'll have to find another excuse to use it.. Maybe PCB making? Or simply as an ozone generator inside a soda glass tube so I can admire the glow and not get burnt.. Experiments shall be done!
Television? I don't have one of those. 06:06 There is NOTHING worth watching on more channels than we know what to do with in Australia. Clive : "Thu ..., Therm ... Thermionic Coating, Sort Of Thu, Thermally Missive" 07:53 Then .... "Thu ..., Thermally Mishive, Missive Material" 08:23 He must have had a wee dram, prior to recording. Fascinating video, Clive I had thought about getting UV lamps for bleaching plastic that has discolored. Thank you. 👍
Thanks, Clive. Another fascinating device explained. I'm a big fan of anything thermionic but then my HiFi glows in the dark. I built my son a pair of amplifiers and the directly heated power triodes had some impurity in the glass which made them glow a dull purple. (5V heaters and 450V anode to cathode.)
we've just paid a fortune to have something similar retro fitted into the air conditioning units in 5 of our 54 seater coaches. Ready for the coming rush lol
@@IDoNotLikeHandlesOnYT Not likely, ozone is very unstable and readily turns into dioxygen in lower atmosphere, although it does cause faster corrosion._
@@DjResR Sure, but a little bubble of it going past something particularly flammable might be enough. It's very reactive. Only takes a tiny burst of flame to set a fire off. I'm sure that, if ozone and flammable vapours were ever to occur near each other in some weird industry, there'd be LOTS of safety regulations.
Well, hello again Royer Oscillator (flyback drive), been a while! The thumbnail brought me here. Very neat little lamp. Actually the same thing happens at the filaments of preheat fluoros too. Around a healthy filament a small gas discharge forms too as it heats up, making some amount of current simply just jump from one end of the filament to the other. Around a depleted filament no gas discharge forms during the preheat phase. Not only a band of darkened phosphor layer is the telltale sign of which end of the tube EOL'ed, but also that, that end only glows orange, while the other one glows almost white as the small discharge excites the phosphor coating.
@@bigclivedotcom No problem. I've never used a scope but i think i will be needing one soon. It's always good to learn some new basics. Keep up the entertaining videos 👌
@@andrewwhite986 me too! I’m building a DIY computer for a performance car, I need to make sure the voltage and ect to my sensors is correct and the feedback from the sensors is as expected.
i read they are the same just that on these transistors the leading 2s is ommited for some reason. which ultimately makes sense. you gotta know that you deal with a silicon based transistor. more the 2s wouldnt tell you any way
That circuit has a huge potential for self-destruction if run without a load. There are no resistors to limit the current flowing through the bases of the transistors and no reverse polarity protection as well.
Nice circuit. I got one of those lamps after seeing Clive's first video on them. I power it with a very simple DC constant current circuit (only 4 parts). Take an NPN power transistor (I used a BD135) with a 3R3 ohm emitter resistor, bulb between collector and +12, base to +12 via a 2k2 resistor. Then add a 2N3904: emitter to ground, collector to the BD135 base, base to BD135 emitter. When the voltage across the 3R3 exceeds about 0.7V, the 2N3904 starts turning off the power transistor, limiting the current to about 200 mA regardless of the voltage drop. Use a heatsink on the BD135. The bulb indeed works better in one direction than the other. I've successfully erased an EPROM with it.
Philips used to make a 4w thermionic lamp with an E14 cap called the ‘OZ4W’used widely in laboratory applications, air/instrument sterilisers and in the continent barbers/hairdressers for sterilisation of combs, brushes etc. They ran in series with a bog standard 36/40w 4ft fluorescent lamp choke. In America a similar lamp was produced with an E17 cap called ‘G4S11’. These Asian made lamps are pretty much a direct replacement, they are even available with E14 and E17 caps.
Dear Mr.BigClive , please consider measuring the inductance of the transformers , to get an idea of the turns ratio :D... Love these videos, with the circuit diagram explained and all , please keep 'em coming !!
Those lamps were common in aircraft as lighting for maps, using a lamp with a red phosphor coating, and with a red filter glass on the lamp unit. Lamp was fed via a resistive ballast from 28VDC battery voltage, which had a series connected resistor string, 27R and 65R, the power being applied to the 27R resistor, and the common connection feeding the lamp, with the other end connected to ground along with the 65R resistor. Chunky power resistors of around 25W, as the lamp runs at around 10V when lit, using around 8W, with the filament doing around 3W of that, the rest in the low voltage arc discharge from the ends of the hot filament. Dimmable as there was a metal shield that simply cut the light output of the lamp, and also would turn it off at the lowest setting. Runs pretty hot in use, so not something you wanted to drop in your lap after a few minutes, even with a flight suit on it was toasty. Generally had a clip to attach to a map board, and a curly cord to allow you to sort of manage the cabling.
@@NiHaoMike64 much more efficient and still lower heat, the equivalent incandescent lamp for this use would be a 50W bulb, and there was also a UV bandpass in the filter so that the red light would be visible, and the UV light would flouresce the paper of the map, so you could see the printed map better, plus it also activated the flourescent indicators and markings on the map tools. Yes went the way of the Dodo after GPS came into use, and Decca and such were turned off.
This power supply are also made for 230v they are very similar to cfl driver but made for lower voltage. They are commonly used for aquarium uv filters.
Do not feel bad, friends! I am a native English speaker, and I replayed the bit when Clive gave the 2 main purposes of the bulb. It sounded like he said "toe dryer." After *4* replays, I gave up.
C1 does indeed make the circuit resonant, it forms a tank circuit with the trans primary, the resulting sine wave is isolated from the dc supply via L1, which allows DC power through but not the 30kc, constant current is provided via the base resistors (limiting PWM) and probably an air gap in the trans.
Clive there are two companies who make small and very big UV lamps for well/pumped off grid water supply sterilising the water, it's mandatory in the UK. One in Slough the other in Banbury They also make very big systems for example semiconductor wafer manufacturers and processors, to increase their purity of them also water outputs from suredge plants, these could be 100mm wide by say 1M long made of the pure crystal glass, sometimes have a round rubber whiper which moves along the glass cleaning it like car windscreen wipers. They are fitted in the centre of large stainless steel pipes to kill any remaining bacteria in the water. Thanks for you very interesting, informative and technical videos. You are not as funny as ElectroBOOM but I think you will out live him as he is going to give himself on shock to meny.
The capacitor does make it a resonant circuit. Combined with the input inductor this means the transistors switch when there's no voltage across them, nearly eliminating switching losses. Though with the base resistors connected after the inductor instead of before it would seem that in this particular implementation the transistors would turn off as the voltage approaches zero. This would eliminate the zero volt switching gain and would lead to excess heat.
It's the same bulb they use in the Philips Sonicare tooth brush sanitiser unit - I wonder if they use the same driver? I'm tempted to take it apart to see... I found the SoniCare unit a handy way of erasing EPROMs.
The cathodes wear out while in use. If run on pure DC one end will wear out first, likely blowing the filament and rendering the bulb useless. If run on AC (or both polarities of DC) each cathode wears evenly at half the rate so the bulb would last twice as long. There are also issues with mercury migration or something when used on DC but I don't really understand that.
In the us, these lamps could also be run of a standard 40w incan lamp, some of there where made and rebranded as special ballast lamps for these lamps to have a simple circuit and can run straight of a 120v supply with one of these 40w lamps. Many bulb collectors run it this way and the chockes for these can be hard to find.
@@bigclivedotcom I have a 2 Channel, seeedstudio, DSO Nano 212, if I remember correctly, it's good enough for what I use it for, basically just checking generator and power supply output waveforms, I just wish there would have been more work done on the fft, fast Fourier transform, firmware update, for it, but as far as I can tell, that update has been dead, and not finished for a number of years. Unfortunately, because I wanted to be able to do with THD measurements. I would love to get, a differential probe and an amp probe for my little scope.
I also came to ask! I was even looking for one in this form factor a few weeks ago and was rather surprised and fed-up that nobody had seemed to realise it would be a useful thing to sell. Thanks Clive!
If you really want UV exposure a mercury arc rectifier really does the job. Last saw one working on a London underground station in 2000 before its removal. Amazing thing to see it still going after 80 odd years of use.
That inductor in the positive line and the parallel capacitor mean it is *not* a Royer oscillator but a Baxandall converter. You get square waves from a Royer and sine waves from a Baxandall.
I came across one of those globes, I accidentally destroyed it when I put it on a power supply to test it, as soon as the arc started the runaway electric current quickly melted down the electrodes. Now I am going to have to score another one from somewhere.
They do, but they also have a Neutral connection, so 120VAC is readily available inside. In fact older cloths dryers from the 1960 and 1970 had these UV emitting bulbs in them. They were typically wired up in series with a regular 60W lamp. I'm guessing the current draw on the lamp and UV lamp made for about a 12V drop across the UV lamp, and the rest across the 60W bulb.
Yes mine runs electric element on 240 and spin motor on 120 don’t know why they do that when they could run both on 240 single phase. US 240 will work without a neutral or ground but it is not safe to do so.
@Michael Bishop yes I believe big Clive has commented that they use 415 volt single phase with each line being 240 volts to neutral which is why you can’t just carry North American electric stuff and plug it up in the UK system. Well I guess you could but it would result in a glorious amount of smoke release and maybe a kaboom
Dear Big Clive, I found an unusual dimmer that seems to regulate AC by using a bridge rectifier, without TRIAC/DIAC/SCR. Have you heard about this and would you like pictures (shipping very expensive)? The switched AC output, one lead, is in series with a rectifier's AC side, and a transistor is used to basically short circuit the rectifier DC side in a controlled fashion. I've never seen this anywhere.
Bridging a rectifier for AC control is common. It may be a reverse phase control or lagging edge dimmer. Much softer on electronic loads and doesn't need much interference suppression. Did you find it on eBay?
@@bigclivedotcom Thank you for the info, I've been trying (and failing) to find the right keywords. It's a genius design even if it suffers from a couple of diode drops and I'll definitely experiment with creating my own circuit. Didn't find it on ebay, bought it from a Finnish store, imported by a Swedish company. You'll find it by searching for "PR HOME Mood plug-in dimmer"
@@bigclivedotcom Oh, if you're curious, the one chip on the board i couldn't find information on is SZP711B (SMD, 8-pin), and it's the brain. Connected to an optocoupler and potentiometer, so... based on what you've taught me it's a variable PWM chip.
A random non-responsive post... I ordered a bunch of electronicky stuff off ebay and I added on a pair of the type of wire cutters you use all the time. I've never used them before... you "influenced" me! I don't know what to make of the fact that I've been influenced by Big Clive.
Like the video. Something real interesting. What intrigued me more though is the little oscilloscope. Is it another ebay find? Would love to have something like that as a hobbyist. Just to see what stuff does - no fancy bells and whistles like the big chunky keysight ones that are wayy to much for hobby use.
Neat little power supply your always finding the coolest things for us. But I want to know what to search for on Ebay to find that nifty little oscilloscope
Do you happen to have the link for those knockoff WAGO connectors that are connected straight through? I saw your video on them a while back, but can't seem to find the listing for them. I do a lot of testing with flying leads, and those would be a great alternative to the terminal blocks I've been using. I still don't get why WAGO doesn't make these as a standard product...
Hi Clive, great teardown. Always love the slightly dangerous videos, UVC included! I noticed that your latest videos are only showing up as 720p max. Maybe it's on my end but figured I'd ask if you happened to change something. Thanks!
can you bypass the heating element? i accidentally burn mine off. I figure if i use a high enough voltage with sufficient current limiting it should work fine right?
The plasma that develops, is a perfect short circuit. If you don't limit the current, it will pass so much current, the bulb will blow up, or something melts and cuts the current. That would be bad.
I got some of those lamps with the usual no documentation. 120 v 60 Hz here, so calculated 6.8 mfd as a power limit ballast in series to limit the power to 3 watts. Lights up fine, but admittedly a sleazy circuit with high voltages right on the socket.
Am I right in thinking a Royer oscillator makes most efficient use of the transformer coil? Like automatically runs at it's optimum frequency by switching when the magnetism is fully saturated, or fully gone? So it doesn't need tuning. At least that's how it seems to be, I'm guessing. So that's why high-voltage, yet cheap, power supplies, like those naughty fly-zappers that are meant to be used on people, use them.
It's be neat if it were possible to get those lamps in "normal" glass packages, so that we can bask in the glorious UV blue colour without ending up with burned skin and ruined eyeballs... :D
As a matter of [strange[ fact... I have a couple "transit" 12 volt florescent lamp ballasts (for buses/trains/etc) which are Royer power oscillators as you have mentioned.. though these pull a few amps and can light large tubes.. some strange notes about them: I had to go through a strange "registration process" in order to get them- only THEN to figure out its because they didn't want them used in "portable" drug grow-farms (that made me laugh) As for the circuit itself- it came in a standard ballast casing which was fully-potted win TAR (yes!) and was a real MESS to de-pot! I found it odd that the transistors were NOT heat-sinked at all (and was told that, tar is an excellent heat dissipater (??) I have 2 of these units- one is depotted (still has tar in the nooks and crannies) while the other one is untouched and still in its original packing..
@@bigclivedotcom Hi there buddy! :) and yeah- I'm old enough to know this hehe just found it odd that they did this to something more modern and to something that contains electronics (I'd think the hot tar would damage the components) I wonder if some electronic florescent ballasts contain tar... (I know the old, OLD magnetic ones do). also, thanks for the reply, there, my favorite Scottish buddy! :)
It's very rare to see someone correctly explain the specific uv wavelengths and their mechanism for generating ozone etc. This video does so. The very deep uvc at 185nm is being absorbed in the Schumann-Runge bands of diatomic molecular oxygen below 200nm. The excited oxygen molecules are thereby broken and the resultant highly reactive monoatomic oxygen atoms recombine with a nearby O2 molecule forming ozone. The ozone then has Huggins, Hartley, and Chappuis absorption bands from 200nm up into the visible. Both mechanisms in tandem protecting the Earth surface from harmful high energy light. The fused quartz dopant used to absorb the 185 line and inhibit ozone formation is titanium dioxide.
Interesting to see the other details. Also intriguing to know that titanium dioxide is used when it's also used to create hydroxyl radicals when exposed to UVC light. (According to all the marketing spin.)
Simplest way to drive these, is to just use a big film capacitor (3µf for 240V like most clothes dryers, 6µf for 120V use) like is used for speed control of induction motors in fans and such, or sometimes a smaller capacitor in parallel with a PTC thermistor to make sure it gets enough current for the heater filament to start the arc that then goes down once everything's warmed up. Basically acts like a capacitive ballast so you can run it off of line voltage, since these days capacitors are cheaper than inductors.
@@bigclivedotcom It might, but the strike on a warmed up tube is at such a low voltage in these that it's not that much of an issue - quite early in the sine wave. Especially since the filament never actually disconnects and is still in the circuit so the voltage across the capacitor's not seeing as big a jump when it strikes.
I really appreciate this video because that ballast is exactly what I need. Can you give a little more information on where to by them. I’m having trouble finding them. Thanks!
That Royer’s a Baxandall (for it is he of the famous Baxandall tone control). A Royer (or “ringing choke”) uses a transductor not a transformer and omits the resonant tank. RMS is not an average. An average value of a function is by definition an integral over a complete cycle divided by (in this case) the periodic time of the function. A RMS (or effective value, in this case: the same heating effect in a resistance of the DC value of the same) is the square root of the average of the square of the function over a complete cycle. In effect an average value of the square of the function. The purpose of the square is that the dissipation varies as the square of current or voltage (p=i^2R or p=v^2/R (lower case letters denoting AC)) hence the need to compare the average of the square of the function and not just the average. “...capacitor in series, which may potentially cause sputtering (electrode damage) in the lamp.” … Explain?
With fluorescent tubes if you try and use a capacitor as a current limiter, the voltage rises to the strike voltage and is then suddenly clamped by the tube, resulting in a sudden current spike. It can cause rapid blackening of the tube ends. I was trying to cater to a wide audience of technical abilities. I could have explained Root Mean Square, but that wasn't the purpose of the video.
You forgot the capacitor on the primary side in your schematic! This, in conjunction with the inductor on the centre tap makes this a Baxandall oscillator, producing a sinusiodal-ish output rather than the square wave output of a Royer design.
Looks like you could almost use that circuit as a sign wave generator for use in a custom DC to AC inverter. Change the inductor to slow the frequency down to 50/60hz??? is there a way to make it more curvey?
@@NinoJoel that's an odd statement, nothing will block all, but it likely will attenuate it to a safe level. Just like the thin clear glass/polycarbonate in a welding helmet does (the shade is only for the intense visible light), or the glass envelope of a florescent lamp.
I'm also seeing glass uvc bulbs being sold as producing no ozone, you think someone fucked up with the glass and they're trying to sell them anyway? It would be nice to see a bulb light and then alter the frequency, see how it affects the shape of plasma
I use a 240v filliment lamp in series with a faulty Switch mode psu as a current limit test.The lamp lites for a moment then goes off.Is this a fault with the PSU. Not working????
Hey Clive, apart from electronics, I have a fascination for moths. I use an MV lamp outside some nights to catch count and release moths. Is this lamp likely to have safety implications? Another fascinating video by the way.
Wonderful effect lighting the lamp.. Like a weird multi-colour little Jacobs ladder gone wrong.
I like Clive's baby scope!! :) Interesting low voltage discharge lamp.
How is your comment 3 days old if the video was only uploaded 10 min ago.
@@SustainableGal patreon see them first.
I had one, The problem is they are so small it was stolen!
@@dogwalker666 oh yeah
@@dogwalker666 What was it?
Big Clive you never fail to educate me...
Someday I might even use the information, until then I'll just keep hitting the like button. Thanks
I'm reminded of the time when I was a kid and I encountered a scrapped washing machine. Among other things I pulled a "germicidal lamp" (it said so right on it) out of it, which was wired with a "ballast" consisting of basically a series inductor about the size of a small audio transformer. And yes, it did work when I applied some power...
SO MANY VIDEOS LATELY. :D
So I’m Finally back on my crispy-voiced-electronics-man videos. Thank you. ❤️
A video every 2 days.
@@bigclivedotcom thank you, majestic crispy voice man. I guess I haven’t been getting the notifications for a while. So I’m glad to see more stuff. BRAVO, see you in a couple days lol.
@@bigclivedotcom wait you have a schedule? I've been subbed for years and never noticed that...
The light that Germs put in their horror movies
I wired my UVC lamps in a room to kill the moth infestation.
I now have a house full of UVC - resistant moths.
oh dang... also, look! a sentence never seen before was created!
These ozone lamps also make good light sources for erasing UV EPROMs. My first eraser (somewhere around 50 years ago) used an incandescent lamp ballast mounted outside a coffee can and a clothes dryer UV lamp inside. Invert the can over your EPROMs, add power and Bob's your uncle.
Been obsessed with arc lamps my entire life. This is the smallest that I know of. It's so cute about time someone shows the proper power supply for it.. Negative resistance is complex no one explains much on that either. amazing whoever engineered this clever lamp that is not self ballasted. Self ignition as the resistance and electron emission goes up, arc established... Love to see one hand made 100 X scale.
I forgot to mention when I first watched this, E17 is a standard base used here in America, like the E12 in your one other video. The E17 is called "Intermediate" base. Here's a quick rundown of the American sizes (note that the two larger ones are only 1mm off of those used in Europe):
E12: Candelabra
E17: Intermediate
E26: Medium (compare to Europe's E27)
E39: Mogul (compare to Europe's E40).
I got a couple of those lamps last time you featured them, just run from a transformer with a beefy resistor in series, great for de oderising walking boots!
...so, 'tuck the resistor down there with the bulb' and they double as boot-dryers/warmers? :D
That circuit diagram is very pleasing to the light globules
I remember growing up in the 60's and my parents had a GE dryer that used an "Ozone Bulb." Current regulation was very primitive, simply a 40 watt lamp in series with it, running across the 110 volt mains. (voltage has gone up over the years here in the states.) A little bit of googling revealed it to be a GE G4S11 lamp that looked about the size of a ping-pong ball.
I'm sure it was wonderful for the clothing lol. Leave a shirt in dryer too long it comes out 3 shades lighter!
I love to learn something new every day. Your channel is th' bomb! I miss Radio Shack already...
Thanks Clive!
You always give me so many things to keep in mind when I'm building something unrelated, thanks Clive, much appreciated.
That tiny scope is totally adorable. I want one!!!
I got one several years ago. 100 bucks, Worth every penny. Great for quick work on the bench or having to work on a car because it's battery powered. Runs and charges USB. Battery will keep it going for about 3hrs. Not ideal as your main oscilloscope.
@@Mr.Unacceptable You can get them board-only for $20-$40 now. Have a look on fleabay for the DSO-138, DSO-150 etc. They are limited to about 200kHz but if you don't have hundreds to drop on a "real" scope then they are a very useful addition to the hobby workbench. Mustool also have a DMM style unit for about $40-$50 which I don't know much about.
There's also the DSO Quad which is about the highest performance one in the form factor that I'm aware of.
Apparently it has an upgrade now, DS213, increasing the bandwidth to 15mhz
That scope would be perfect for automotive. Even just to check the alternator all the time... I need this.
A pair could be fastened to the front panel of an audio amplifier to show the waveform of each channel. Makes the blank space useful ;-)
That cap across the primary is forming a resonant tank. It controls the frequency of the oscillator.
And the cap in series with the secondary and lamp looks like it could be resonant too. It's like a weird cross between a Tesla coil and a TPTG oscillator... except there's no obvious feedback from the secondary to the primary. Does the secondary reactance change sufficiently when the tube lights to stabilize the primary frequency?
@@markfergerson2145 The secondary capacitor (and the load of the lamp) would be reflected across to the primary multiplied by the turns ratio of the transformer squared. Dunno how big of a role it'd play.
Ooohs! I got a bunch of these lamps last time you 'promoted' them.. Now there is a matching driver!
Thank you! Much easier to drive and hopefully a nice long life. I'll make it into a nice UV curing chamber for things.
Wrong wavelength. Most UV curing is done in the UVA region.
@@bigclivedotcom Then I'll have to find another excuse to use it.. Maybe PCB making? Or simply as an ozone generator inside a soda glass tube so I can admire the glow and not get burnt..
Experiments shall be done!
Television? I don't have one of those. 06:06 There is NOTHING worth watching on more channels than we know what to do with in Australia. Clive : "Thu ..., Therm ... Thermionic Coating, Sort Of Thu, Thermally Missive" 07:53 Then .... "Thu ..., Thermally Mishive, Missive Material" 08:23 He must have had a wee dram, prior to recording. Fascinating video, Clive I had thought about getting UV lamps for bleaching plastic that has discolored. Thank you. 👍
Really? Can you bleach away the yellowish bromine tint from white 70's plastics?
@@LutzSchafer Go on the "ODD Tinkering" channel. He shows how to do it.
Those little bulbs are really ingenious devices, chuck full of physics.
Thanks, Clive. Another fascinating device explained.
I'm a big fan of anything thermionic but then my HiFi glows in the dark. I built my son a pair of amplifiers and the directly heated power triodes had some impurity in the glass which made them glow a dull purple. (5V heaters and 450V anode to cathode.)
Clive, those gtl bulbs come in 2 watt or 3 watt, and is indicated by the last numeral.
Just a bit more circuit theory absorbed with every nutritious video Thanks Clive
we've just paid a fortune to have something similar retro fitted into the air conditioning units in 5 of our 54 seater coaches. Ready for the coming rush lol
Hopefully you don't park your entire coach fleet next to stacks of oil soaked pallets like that outfit in California.
@@gavincurtis Did they produce enough ozone to set the pallets on fire? Can ozone even do that under normal outdoor conditions?
@@IDoNotLikeHandlesOnYT Not likely, ozone is very unstable and readily turns into dioxygen in lower atmosphere, although it does cause faster corrosion._
@@DjResR Sure, but a little bubble of it going past something particularly flammable might be enough. It's very reactive. Only takes a tiny burst of flame to set a fire off. I'm sure that, if ozone and flammable vapours were ever to occur near each other in some weird industry, there'd be LOTS of safety regulations.
Well, hello again Royer Oscillator (flyback drive), been a while!
The thumbnail brought me here. Very neat little lamp. Actually the same thing happens at the filaments of preheat fluoros too. Around a healthy filament a small gas discharge forms too as it heats up, making some amount of current simply just jump from one end of the filament to the other. Around a depleted filament no gas discharge forms during the preheat phase. Not only a band of darkened phosphor layer is the telltale sign of which end of the tube EOL'ed, but also that, that end only glows orange, while the other one glows almost white as the small discharge excites the phosphor coating.
Could you do a video on some basics of using/reading of the scope? Really enjoy your videos and live stream.
I only got this one recently. I've not explored it fully yet.
@@bigclivedotcom No problem. I've never used a scope but i think i will be needing one soon. It's always good to learn some new basics. Keep up the entertaining videos 👌
@@andrewwhite986 me too! I’m building a DIY computer for a performance car, I need to make sure the voltage and ect to my sensors is correct and the feedback from the sensors is as expected.
Thank you Covid for bringing back electrical classics ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Lol
D882P transistor is the same one inside the mini plasma ball you took apart 4 years ago
My favourite NPN transistor.
I've never heard of the D882P. It seems to be a Chinese rip off the 2SD882.
i read they are the same just that on these transistors the leading 2s is ommited for some reason. which ultimately makes sense. you gotta know that you deal with a silicon based transistor. more the 2s wouldnt tell you any way
That circuit has a huge potential for self-destruction if run without a load. There are no resistors to limit the current flowing through the bases of the transistors and no reverse polarity protection as well.
Nice circuit. I got one of those lamps after seeing Clive's first video on them. I power it with a very simple DC constant current circuit (only 4 parts). Take an NPN power transistor (I used a BD135) with a 3R3 ohm emitter resistor, bulb between collector and +12, base to +12 via a 2k2 resistor. Then add a 2N3904: emitter to ground, collector to the BD135 base, base to BD135 emitter. When the voltage across the 3R3 exceeds about 0.7V, the 2N3904 starts turning off the power transistor, limiting the current to about 200 mA regardless of the voltage drop. Use a heatsink on the BD135. The bulb indeed works better in one direction than the other. I've successfully erased an EPROM with it.
Keep in mind that running them in DC puts most of the work on one electrode.
I bought that same oscilloscope. Handy little item. Use it to figure out which are the data lines in tablets and phones mostly.
What's the model number?
Seeed studio nano DSO.
Philips used to make a 4w thermionic lamp with an E14 cap called the ‘OZ4W’used widely in laboratory applications, air/instrument sterilisers and in the continent barbers/hairdressers for sterilisation of combs, brushes etc. They ran in series with a bog standard 36/40w 4ft fluorescent lamp choke. In America a similar lamp was produced with an E17 cap called ‘G4S11’. These Asian made lamps are pretty much a direct replacement, they are even available with E14 and E17 caps.
Dear Mr.BigClive , please consider measuring the inductance of the transformers , to get an idea of the turns ratio :D... Love these videos, with the circuit diagram explained and all , please keep 'em coming !!
loving the little oscilloscope view
Those lamps were common in aircraft as lighting for maps, using a lamp with a red phosphor coating, and with a red filter glass on the lamp unit. Lamp was fed via a resistive ballast from 28VDC battery voltage, which had a series connected resistor string, 27R and 65R, the power being applied to the 27R resistor, and the common connection feeding the lamp, with the other end connected to ground along with the 65R resistor. Chunky power resistors of around 25W, as the lamp runs at around 10V when lit, using around 8W, with the filament doing around 3W of that, the rest in the low voltage arc discharge from the ends of the hot filament. Dimmable as there was a metal shield that simply cut the light output of the lamp, and also would turn it off at the lowest setting. Runs pretty hot in use, so not something you wanted to drop in your lap after a few minutes, even with a flight suit on it was toasty. Generally had a clip to attach to a map board, and a curly cord to allow you to sort of manage the cabling.
In the end, was it even an improvement over an incandescent bulb?
@@NiHaoMike64 much more efficient and still lower heat, the equivalent incandescent lamp for this use would be a 50W bulb, and there was also a UV bandpass in the filter so that the red light would be visible, and the UV light would flouresce the paper of the map, so you could see the printed map better, plus it also activated the flourescent indicators and markings on the map tools. Yes went the way of the Dodo after GPS came into use, and Decca and such were turned off.
This power supply are also made for 230v they are very similar to cfl driver but made for lower voltage. They are commonly used for aquarium uv filters.
Clive I still understand half of what you say but I still learn allot thank you so much.
Half? You're doing better than me!
Do not feel bad, friends! I am a native English speaker, and I replayed the bit when Clive gave the 2 main purposes of the bulb. It sounded like he said "toe dryer." After *4* replays, I gave up.
Tumble dryer or laundry dryer?
@@77thTrombone Toe drier?
I guess those would benefit from some ozone based deodorization.
Something else to learn: -allot- a lot
C1 does indeed make the circuit resonant, it forms a tank circuit with the trans primary, the resulting sine wave is isolated from the dc supply via L1, which allows DC power through but not the 30kc, constant current is provided via the base resistors (limiting PWM) and probably an air gap in the trans.
Heater also helps increase internal pressure and heat the tube, which makes it run brighter
Clive there are two companies who make small and very big UV lamps for well/pumped off grid water supply sterilising the water, it's mandatory in the UK.
One in Slough the other in Banbury
They also make very big systems for example semiconductor wafer manufacturers and processors, to increase their purity of them also water outputs from suredge plants, these could be 100mm wide by say 1M long made of the pure crystal glass, sometimes have a round rubber whiper which moves along the glass cleaning it like car windscreen wipers.
They are fitted in the centre of large stainless steel pipes to kill any remaining bacteria in the water.
Thanks for you very interesting, informative and technical videos.
You are not as funny as ElectroBOOM
but I think you will out live him as he is going to give himself on shock to meny.
The capacitor does make it a resonant circuit. Combined with the input inductor this means the transistors switch when there's no voltage across them, nearly eliminating switching losses.
Though with the base resistors connected after the inductor instead of before it would seem that in this particular implementation the transistors would turn off as the voltage approaches zero. This would eliminate the zero volt switching gain and would lead to excess heat.
It's the same bulb they use in the Philips Sonicare tooth brush sanitiser unit - I wonder if they use the same driver? I'm tempted to take it apart to see...
I found the SoniCare unit a handy way of erasing EPROMs.
I haven't seen a UV eprom in years 😁
@@grantrennie Messing around with old computers is a great excuse to play with them :)
Reminds me of those push pull transistor ocilators I use to make flashers. You would not thing there would be a low voltage version of those lamps.
Never gets old.
Hmmm. I wonder if there is any value to switching the DC polarity to the emitter to make it last longer when it is a DC application?
It would be useful to alternate the polarity from time to time.
That is simply just turning it on and off. Being DC, it will shorten it's life.
The cathodes wear out while in use. If run on pure DC one end will wear out first, likely blowing the filament and rendering the bulb useless. If run on AC (or both polarities of DC) each cathode wears evenly at half the rate so the bulb would last twice as long. There are also issues with mercury migration or something when used on DC but I don't really understand that.
Perhaps next a1000w grow lamp ballast? For the HERBivores out there.
In the us, these lamps could also be run of a standard 40w incan lamp, some of there where made and rebranded as special ballast lamps for these lamps to have a simple circuit and can run straight of a 120v supply with one of these 40w lamps. Many bulb collectors run it this way and the chockes for these can be hard to find.
Sorry Big Clive, I was drunk last night but I do enjoy the way you talk about elekyraniks
Can you post a link to the scope? That thing looks epic
I came here to ask that. Need some details about it.
It's actually retro in DSO terms. You can buy it directly from Seeed studios or their partners.
@@bigclivedotcom I have a 2 Channel, seeedstudio, DSO Nano 212, if I remember correctly, it's good enough for what I use it for, basically just checking generator and power supply output waveforms,
I just wish there would have been more work done on the fft, fast Fourier transform, firmware update, for it, but as far as I can tell, that update has been dead, and not finished for a number of years.
Unfortunately, because I wanted to be able to do with THD measurements.
I would love to get, a differential probe and an amp probe for my little scope.
I also came to ask! I was even looking for one in this form factor a few weeks ago and was rather surprised and fed-up that nobody had seemed to realise it would be a useful thing to sell. Thanks Clive!
Mine was stolen 😥
If you really want UV exposure a mercury arc rectifier really does the job. Last saw one working on a London underground station in 2000 before its removal. Amazing thing to see it still going after 80 odd years of use.
The mercury rectifiers are made of a glass that blocks the harmful wavelengths.
That inductor in the positive line and the parallel capacitor mean it is *not* a Royer oscillator but a Baxandall converter. You get square waves from a Royer and sine waves from a Baxandall.
Strangely that search points back at Royer, but there are definite differences.
@@bigclivedotcom Wikipedia article on Royer also describes Baxandall. I'd give a link, but UA-cam is iffy about links these days.
I came across one of those globes, I accidentally destroyed it when I put it on a power supply to test it, as soon as the arc started the runaway electric current quickly melted down the electrodes. Now I am going to have to score another one from somewhere.
NB most electric clothes dryers in the U.S. operate at 240VAC.
They do, but they also have a Neutral connection, so 120VAC is readily available inside. In fact older cloths dryers from the 1960 and 1970 had these UV emitting bulbs in them. They were typically wired up in series with a regular 60W lamp. I'm guessing the current draw on the lamp and UV lamp made for about a 12V drop across the UV lamp, and the rest across the 60W bulb.
@Michael Bishop Yes, so?
Yes mine runs electric element on 240 and spin motor on 120 don’t know why they do that when they could run both on 240 single phase. US 240 will work without a neutral or ground but it is not safe to do so.
@Michael Bishop yes I believe big Clive has commented that they use 415 volt single phase with each line being 240 volts to neutral which is why you can’t just carry North American electric stuff and plug it up in the UK system. Well I guess you could but it would result in a glorious amount of smoke release and maybe a kaboom
Same in Canada
Dear Big Clive, I found an unusual dimmer that seems to regulate AC by using a bridge rectifier, without TRIAC/DIAC/SCR. Have you heard about this and would you like pictures (shipping very expensive)? The switched AC output, one lead, is in series with a rectifier's AC side, and a transistor is used to basically short circuit the rectifier DC side in a controlled fashion. I've never seen this anywhere.
Bridging a rectifier for AC control is common. It may be a reverse phase control or lagging edge dimmer. Much softer on electronic loads and doesn't need much interference suppression. Did you find it on eBay?
@@bigclivedotcom Thank you for the info, I've been trying (and failing) to find the right keywords. It's a genius design even if it suffers from a couple of diode drops and I'll definitely experiment with creating my own circuit. Didn't find it on ebay, bought it from a Finnish store, imported by a Swedish company. You'll find it by searching for "PR HOME Mood plug-in dimmer"
@@bigclivedotcom Oh, if you're curious, the one chip on the board i couldn't find information on is SZP711B (SMD, 8-pin), and it's the brain. Connected to an optocoupler and potentiometer, so... based on what you've taught me it's a variable PWM chip.
A random non-responsive post... I ordered a bunch of electronicky stuff off ebay and I added on a pair of the type of wire cutters you use all the time. I've never used them before... you "influenced" me! I don't know what to make of the fact that I've been influenced by Big Clive.
Once you have a pair of those side cutters you'll want to add at least one more pair onto your next order. They're also ideal for trimming nails.
Like the video. Something real interesting.
What intrigued me more though is the little oscilloscope.
Is it another ebay find? Would love to have something like that as a hobbyist. Just to see what stuff does - no fancy bells and whistles like the big chunky keysight ones that are wayy to much for hobby use.
It's a Seeed nano. I just bought it recently.
I'd be interested to see you tear-down some of those Phillips Hue bulbs and see if they are still engineered to fail despite their hefty price tags
I've been offered a lot of dead Hue lamps.
I like the baby scope, very interesting lamp and royal circuit current regulator
It's a Seeed studio nano scope. It's been around a long time.
Watched the light-up clip at 1/4 speed, was not disappointed
A good followup to the bulb hacking would be to test the lumen output and the improved efficiency (if measurable )
Neat little power supply your always finding the coolest things for us. But I want to know what to search for on Ebay to find that nifty little oscilloscope
It's a Seeed studio nano scope. Very basic single channel. It's been around for a long time.
Do you happen to have the link for those knockoff WAGO connectors that are connected straight through? I saw your video on them a while back, but can't seem to find the listing for them. I do a lot of testing with flying leads, and those would be a great alternative to the terminal blocks I've been using. I still don't get why WAGO doesn't make these as a standard product...
Hi Clive, great teardown. Always love the slightly dangerous videos, UVC included!
I noticed that your latest videos are only showing up as 720p max. Maybe it's on my end but figured I'd ask if you happened to change something.
Thanks!
I messed up. It's fixed now.
can you bypass the heating element? i accidentally burn mine off. I figure if i use a high enough voltage with sufficient current limiting it should work fine right?
It could work, but will be harsh on the electrodes. They may sputter and blacken the lamp.
The plasma that develops, is a perfect short circuit.
If you don't limit the current, it will pass so much current, the bulb will blow up, or something melts and cuts the current.
That would be bad.
hello everyone 👋 have a nice day.
Thanks for the good video ☕
That GTL3 bulb.. the way it is mounted makes me think on the lightbulbs in microwaves.
Similar size.
Switching them out.
A way to get *clean* and heat prepared food :)
I got some of those lamps with the usual no documentation. 120 v 60 Hz here, so calculated 6.8 mfd as a power limit ballast in series to limit the power to 3 watts. Lights up fine, but admittedly a sleazy circuit with high voltages right on the socket.
Great video! Do you happen to have the transformer ratings or the part number at hand?
You could cover the lamp with a clear drinking glass, which would block the UVC light.
Am I right in thinking a Royer oscillator makes most efficient use of the transformer coil? Like automatically runs at it's optimum frequency by switching when the magnetism is fully saturated, or fully gone? So it doesn't need tuning. At least that's how it seems to be, I'm guessing. So that's why high-voltage, yet cheap, power supplies, like those naughty fly-zappers that are meant to be used on people, use them.
The fly zapper circuits are cheaper and put out a non symmetrical waveform.
It's be neat if it were possible to get those lamps in "normal" glass packages, so that we can bask in the glorious UV blue colour without ending up with burned skin and ruined eyeballs... :D
With a fluorescent phosphor inside 😂
Nah, just the bare transparent glass, don't need to look at a fluorescent tube these days... :P
You could put one behind a UV filter for halogen lights.
As a matter of [strange[ fact... I have a couple "transit" 12 volt florescent lamp ballasts (for buses/trains/etc) which are Royer power oscillators as you have mentioned.. though these pull a few amps and can light large tubes.. some strange notes about them: I had to go through a strange "registration process" in order to get them- only THEN to figure out its because they didn't want them used in "portable" drug grow-farms (that made me laugh) As for the circuit itself- it came in a standard ballast casing which was fully-potted win TAR (yes!) and was a real MESS to de-pot! I found it odd that the transistors were NOT heat-sinked at all (and was told that, tar is an excellent heat dissipater (??) I have 2 of these units- one is depotted (still has tar in the nooks and crannies) while the other one is untouched and still in its original packing..
A lot of the old neon transformers used to be filled with tar/pitch.
@@bigclivedotcom Hi there buddy! :) and yeah- I'm old enough to know this hehe just found it odd that they did this to something more modern and to something that contains electronics (I'd think the hot tar would damage the components) I wonder if some electronic florescent ballasts contain tar... (I know the old, OLD magnetic ones do). also, thanks for the reply, there, my favorite Scottish buddy! :)
Very cool circuit indeed
It's very rare to see someone correctly explain the specific uv wavelengths and their mechanism for generating ozone etc. This video does so.
The very deep uvc at 185nm is being absorbed in the Schumann-Runge bands of diatomic molecular oxygen below 200nm. The excited oxygen molecules are thereby broken and the resultant highly reactive monoatomic oxygen atoms recombine with a nearby O2 molecule forming ozone. The ozone then has Huggins, Hartley, and Chappuis absorption bands from 200nm up into the visible. Both mechanisms in tandem protecting the Earth surface from harmful high energy light. The fused quartz dopant used to absorb the 185 line and inhibit ozone formation is titanium dioxide.
Interesting to see the other details. Also intriguing to know that titanium dioxide is used when it's also used to create hydroxyl radicals when exposed to UVC light. (According to all the marketing spin.)
Simplest way to drive these, is to just use a big film capacitor (3µf for 240V like most clothes dryers, 6µf for 120V use) like is used for speed control of induction motors in fans and such, or sometimes a smaller capacitor in parallel with a PTC thermistor to make sure it gets enough current for the heater filament to start the arc that then goes down once everything's warmed up. Basically acts like a capacitive ballast so you can run it off of line voltage, since these days capacitors are cheaper than inductors.
Does it cause sputtering on each half-wave strike?
@@bigclivedotcom It might, but the strike on a warmed up tube is at such a low voltage in these that it's not that much of an issue - quite early in the sine wave. Especially since the filament never actually disconnects and is still in the circuit so the voltage across the capacitor's not seeing as big a jump when it strikes.
Might there be similar circuitry in the "2D" fluorescent fittings intended to run from 12V (1980s on) ? ISTR seeing at least a transformer in there.
Probably similar.
I really appreciate this video because that ballast is exactly what I need. Can you give a little more information on where to by them. I’m having trouble finding them. Thanks!
Search for keywords like GTL3 uvc 10v 3w and you should find some listing with the 12V ballast.
Thanks Bigiclive, I found it on eBay
Very interesting
That Royer’s a Baxandall (for it is he of the famous Baxandall tone control). A Royer (or “ringing choke”) uses a transductor not a transformer and omits the resonant tank.
RMS is not an average. An average value of a function is by definition an integral over a complete cycle divided by (in this case) the periodic time of the function.
A RMS (or effective value, in this case: the same heating effect in a resistance of the DC value of the same) is the square root of the average of the square of the function over a complete cycle. In effect an average value of the square of the function. The purpose of the square is that the dissipation varies as the square of current or voltage (p=i^2R or p=v^2/R (lower case letters denoting AC)) hence the need to compare the average of the square of the function and not just the average.
“...capacitor in series, which may potentially cause sputtering (electrode damage) in the lamp.” … Explain?
With fluorescent tubes if you try and use a capacitor as a current limiter, the voltage rises to the strike voltage and is then suddenly clamped by the tube, resulting in a sudden current spike. It can cause rapid blackening of the tube ends.
I was trying to cater to a wide audience of technical abilities. I could have explained Root Mean Square, but that wasn't the purpose of the video.
You forgot the capacitor on the primary side in your schematic! This, in conjunction with the inductor on the centre tap makes this a Baxandall oscillator, producing a sinusiodal-ish output rather than the square wave output of a Royer design.
The parallel primary capacitor is at the top of the schematic.
@@bigclivedotcom I swear I'm going blind, so obvious now you say that! Thanks for another great teardown.
@@ferrumignis I put it up there to make the drawing less cluttered, but it is a bit out of the way.
I’ve destroyed a few of these bulbs. The instructions say they run straight off the mains, no mention of a driver needed.
They definitely need current limiting.
I wonder, how far (as in distance from the lamp) the germicidal properties reach??
It will diminish over distance. This is a low power unit so probably for fairly close range use.
Looks like you could almost use that circuit as a sign wave generator for use in a custom DC to AC inverter. Change the inductor to slow the frequency down to 50/60hz??? is there a way to make it more curvey?
Very nice SIR
Fascinating stuff this, lots of physics, so the Royer just runs away as fast as the transistors and inductance will all allow ?...cheers.
Yes. It runs at its own frequency. The capacitor may allow tuning of that.
it looks awfully like a CCFL inverter, but with low voltage
does this lamp smells ozone when lit (185 + 254nm) or not ( 254nm lamp) ? 😉
I believe these bulbs were developed for ozone generation in clothes driers.
This version actually does produce ozone.
Could you just put a glass over the bulb? Regular glass would block the uvc
The pcb looks a lot like a plasma ball circuit I have
@@NinoJoel "Regular glass does not block UV light in these intensity" Any source for that claim? Cause material-science says otherwise.
@@NinoJoel that's an odd statement, nothing will block all, but it likely will attenuate it to a safe level. Just like the thin clear glass/polycarbonate in a welding helmet does (the shade is only for the intense visible light), or the glass envelope of a florescent lamp.
@@ABaumstumpf yea I just missed the whole wavelength blocking thing.
Ausuming the UV lamp only emits the advertised wavelength.
My bad.
Love those two way WAGO clamps, how can i find them?
Did you try searching eBay for "wago connector"?
eBay SPL-2
@@bigclivedotcom Actually SPL-3 gets more hits than SPL-2, at least on US eBay. (most SPL-3 listings are actually selling your choice of SPL-2 or -3)
I'm also seeing glass uvc bulbs being sold as producing no ozone, you think someone fucked up with the glass and they're trying to sell them anyway?
It would be nice to see a bulb light and then alter the frequency, see how it affects the shape of plasma
I love your voice and your accent
What make is that portable oscilloscope, please?
Would you recommend that oscilloscope - it looks neat, but I cannot identify the brand from the video.
Seeed nano. I just got it recently, so can't judge it yet.
I use a 240v filliment lamp in series with a faulty Switch mode psu as a current limit test.The lamp lites for a moment then goes off.Is this a fault with the PSU. Not working????
I knew a micro Henry once. He was a very angry wee man.
Where do i get one of those tiny oscilloscopes from?
This is a Seeed nano, but there are quite a few others.
If you're using that lamp in a future video stick it under a glass cup. Glass is very effective at blocking UV
How do you like that little oscilloscope? I was thinking of getting one like that, but I don't know how useful it would be.
Hi.Could I use a mains filiment lamp in series across a power supply fuse holder to let me test a faulty psu that keeps popping fuses????? Thanks
Yes. Or alternatively a heater.
Hey Clive, apart from electronics, I have a fascination for moths. I use an MV lamp outside some nights to catch count and release moths. Is this lamp likely to have safety implications? Another fascinating video by the way.
This one would injure the moths and cause arc-eye if you looked at it too long.
why the low video quality?
Minor slo-mo experiment screw up. It will affect a couple of recent videos. It's back at 1080P now.