How the 10000 Hour Rule Applies to Tennis
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- Опубліковано 29 січ 2024
- Outliers: The Story of Success by Malcolm Gladwell 👉🏻 amzn.to/3xikVUV
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In today's video, I explain how the “10 000 Hour Rule” applies to Tennis and give the answer to the most frequently asked question: Is it too late for me to turn pro?
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Hit LIKE if you have the passion for 🎾
🎾💥🎾 Step by step, have fun, bring your best attitude, do your best. What's there not to like ? :)
Time for you to write a book Nik, about tennis of course!
Passion... sure I have. Traveled 53 kilometers yesterday to play an hour of tennis❤
Your quote at the beginning sounds very similar to what Bruce Lee once said, "I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times."
I'm close to reaching 10000 hours of watching youtube videos. And it was never a goal! So you are right: If you love doing it, it will happen by itself.
Outliers is a good book but much better books on this subject are Bounce by Matthew Syed and Peak by Anders Ericsson. Anders Ericsson did the original research on this subject.
I have applied the techniques of this theory to my game. I started playing aged over 40 but I went from our 5th team to 1st team becoming the best older player at my club then moving onto the best in county to knocking on the door of the national team at my age group.
As Nick says you have to just love to hit that yellow ball. I will happily practice on my own, with a ball machine, just hitting with others and then competitively. Even though I am almost 60 now and have slowed down a bit physically I am still improving from a technical viewpoint and hitting the ball better than ever.
I often wonder WHY I enjoy smacking that stupid ball so much. Technically, it shouldn't be that interesting after a while. I'm not a sports guy in general. I don't like mundane or pointless tasks - I'm generally geared toward projects.
But the minute the weather breaks I'll grab the ball machine and swat balls.
I was gonna say the same thing regarding Peak by Anders Ericsson. It is a great readable book, and I don’t think that Gladwell really did it justice. If you want to do the 10,000 hours right, you have to also be very specific with how you practice. Gladwell hyped up the amount of hours part, but that part doesn’t mean anything unless you spend the time in the same way that the peak performers have. One part of it is having a coach or teacher!
Helps to have a great coach instill the technique. Without that you can play your whole life and get nowhere. I see it at local clubs. Amateur adults year after year make no progress. Spending thousands a year too. I learnt more from your free videos here than I have spending money and hours locally. Thanks for all you do I’ve made progress I never thought possible.
🙏
I'm a 34 year old recreational player that started in June 2023. Checking my court booking history at the club I play at, I've logged 84 hours. That doesn't include the many, many hours I served baskets and baskets on my own, hitting with partners at other courts, hitting against the wall, etc. If I were to give an estimate of how many hours I spent on a tennis court actually working on my game, I'd estimate ~160 hours. My coach put me through a 3.5 NTRP assessment last week which I passed so I know the hours are paying off. I love tennis, it saved me from many negative things and I'll be playing for the rest of my life.
💯🙌
I have seen people do it in front of my eyes. A member started four years ago with zero tennis background. Took her first lesson with a racket from Walmart. Now she’s a 4.0 with beautiful serve motion.
I just love hitting it... flat, slice, forehand slice, top spin... when you consistently hit it in the sweetspot... it just feels so nice. I've had the best sessions of my life last week and I'm like sad for knowing sooner or later it will be over for a good amount of time until it happens again.
F yes!
Great topic as always!
What people also often don't get about this is the power (pun intended) of exponentials that is hidden in plain sight within that number of 10,000 hours.
If you just do the practice, regardless of how well it's configured (by you or someone else), then yes it takes literally 10,000 hours! Or those 7 years your student mourned over in advance haha...
BUT!
If after each 10 hours of practice, if you put in an additional 2 hours of learning how to learn - of thinking about not only the current and next practice session but also all the previous ones, recording and watching yourself, actively trying to connect the dots in your head even when not doing anything tennis related, etc etc...
Then - in a hypothetical scenario where you can double the learning speed each time - after repeating this process 7 times you've already increased your learning rate by more than a 100x!
Which means, after some calculeation I had to do on paper right now, that you actually only have to do about 100 hours - total! 😁
Of course I'm joking a bit, it's obviously impossible to keep that tempo of improving how you learn, and most people would be really happy with just improving by 10% each time.
But case in point.
I myself grabbed a racket for the first time in my life 3 years ago at age 34. I not only got ahead and have beaten my friend who played recreatively for the last 15 years, but I started playing some rec tournaments - doesn't sound like much, until I tell you that I've learned to play with both hands equally (except the serve).
This is what I set out from the start to do and I remember my friend laughing at my ambition. Now I can win against him with either hand, lmao. I used on and off coaching to steer me in the right way or to give me another perspecive on things. But I stuck to my gameplan really hard.
And I'm still sticking, regardless!
As you said, it's never too late just ask the question "do you like hitting the tennis ball?"
Cheers Nikola živio 🍻
So excellent! I look at it kinda the same way but I say hit 10,000 serves with the right intent and practice and one will get a top level serve, etc. now I’m focusing on a few strokes in addition to many other things but what drives me is I LOVE HITTING THAT BALL 🎾💥🏆😎🔝 thanks for this video
I have read Outliers, Bounce and a number of other similar books. I have to say, there seems to be a war on innate talent and this belief that 'almost anyone' can put in 10,000 hours and make it and that hard work is all it takes, simply isn't true. I have put the same kids through the same process and the results vary greatly. While it is true that kids that don't pick up the racket for a couple of years lose their game, similarly you get kids with natural ball sense that don't play for years and return to the game in no time and beat kids who have put in three time the hours.
The impact of playing three tournaments over three weekends vs one tournament over a month is massive. I've seen kids that put in 2 hours per day, 6 days per week and achieve relatively little. I don't think I'm a talent genius, but for me its easy to pick out talented kids across various sports. It is crazy to see kids full time in academies, top top juniors world wide who don't make it to pro's. In swimming its the equivalent of trying to make a 5"6 person with size 7 feet an Olympic champion. They'll be great swimmers after 10 years, but they won't be able to progress beyond a certain level.
Totally agree. Everyone can improve and the more quality, well-directed, focused, accurate work you put in the more you will improve, but talent makes a massive difference. Becoming proficient to near-elite level as an adult is close to impossible, and even for kids although they learn quicker most will fall by the wayside when they realise how hard it is to become exceptional.
I agree, practice is essential but as Paul Mccartney said a lot of bands around the same time as the Beatles also put in 10,000 hours and weren't successful
@@Siloguy Indeed and it's worse than that. There are bands that put in 10,000 hours and had a minor hit, bands that put in 10,000 hours and just did pub gigs, and people that if they had put in 10,000 hours would not even have got a pub gig (that would be me).
This thread is on it. Paul M said it best. Tons of bands, tons of Jr’s tons of everyone… What’s the definition of high level? Again, it’s laughable. None of those lounge bands in Hamburg became the Beatles. Some probably did much more than 10,000 hours. Lots of little words thrown around here without a definition with them. High level? Professional? Millions of kids playing hoops, playing football from pee wee to college. How many make the pros? An incredibly tiny percentage.
So, I recalled that the book and rule is based on a study, which does support your view. With a little help from ChatGPT 4.0, this summarizes it, and as I understand the study the fact that there is a correlation between how many hours you practice and how proficient you become, it is not a causal relationship that can be leveredged to "game the system", which is why you have so many less-than-stellar classical musicans driven by parents who thought so.
Gladwell's "10,000-Hour Rule" in his book "Outliers" is based on the research of psychologist K. Anders Ericsson and colleagues. This rule suggests that it takes roughly ten thousand hours of practice to achieve mastery in a field. The specific study Gladwell refers to is often associated with Ericsson's work on expert performance and deliberate practice, particularly focusing on musicians.
In the study the violinists were divided into three groups based on their skill level and the number of hours they had practiced. The groups were:
1. **Best violinists**: These were students who had the potential to become international soloists. They had accumulated over 10,000 hours of deliberate practice by the age of 20.
2. **Good violinists**: These were students who were considered good musicians but were not at the same level as the best violinists. They had accumulated approximately 8,000 hours of deliberate practice by the age of 20.
3. **Music teachers**: This group consisted of students who were expected to become teachers rather than performers. They had the lowest average practice hours, accumulating about 4,000 hours by the age of 20.
The study's findings supported the idea that the amount of deliberate practice was strongly associated with the level of performance; those who had practiced more were at a higher skill level. However, Ericsson's emphasis was on the quality and deliberateness of the practice, not just the quantity. The key takeaway was that sustained, focused practice over a significant period is crucial for achieving high levels of expertise. This nuanced perspective is sometimes lost in broader interpretations of the 10,000-Hour Rule, which tend to focus on the sheer volume of practice time as the determinant of success.
Thank you for this vid Nick.
Read the book last September. Definitely an eye-opening read.
Your epiphany is so telling.👏
It comes down to what you said - wheather you like smacking the tennis ball or not.
I would like to add just one more thing - stepping on the court and getting the goosebumps from the magic that this rectangular-shaped court has and marvelling at how much of a free space you have just for yourself.
If you have any of these chills, you will easily accept the frustration tennis brings as a highly demanding technical sport😏.
I am at around 600 to 800 hrs at the moment. No intentions of stopping😀
Well said Milan. Keep going 💯
Read it many years ago, not a bad read, I like this video its very different content and well thought through !
I ran across that concept of 10,000 hours a few years ago. I know I have easily over that however my motivation was the enjoyment I got from playing and hitting the ball. So much so in fact I was playing several hours a day 7 days a week as long as the weather allowed. Though sometimes life gets in the way. Injuries or events in life sometimes prevent you from doing what you could at one time. But one thing's for sure. It was never work, it was always the highlight of my day. Even when I was teaching it was a joy. Especially with the kids. I watched some of them grow up and go on to play college tennis after teaching them since they were in grade school. If you're thinking of it in terms of hours you have to put in as drudgery or work you dislike you should probably find something else to do that you enjoy. If I wasn't having fun or my students weren't having fun I didn't see much point in it. ☮️
💯
Thank you for this beautiful story❣️
🙏🙏
Cant agree more, key is to love hitting the ball. I know I am loving it! For improvement the most important thing is to know how each shot should be executed. A lot goes into that. Players must feel it well, but also be aware what he is doing.
I love tennis and, as a 2.5, I love hitting that fuzzy yellow ball. Especially hitting the sweet spot. It has a satisfying feeling. 🎾
🙌
Great job on the video my friend. I practice around 5 to 7 hours a week, but I practice one type of serve, or a particular shot. I love hitting tennis balls.
It's a florescent green ball, and yes, I love it hehe!
I do have passion for tennis
Maria Shavapova started playing tennis at age 7. She won her first Wimbledon at 17. Motivation played a big role in her success.
10k hrs + physical build + talent = pro. Everyone else just becomes a high level club player.
The very first ingredient at achieving excellence is to have a passion or love for the game. Steve Jobs once said if you don't love what you're doing you'll never do as well as someone who does because the person who does love it will endure through more adversity and pain. Effectively, without the passion, the costs can't be rationalized. For the passionate players, it's not time that's the issue, but wasting it by practicing incorrectly is the issue.
Nik
Great video to which I have two questions.
In your experience and knowledge:
1 - Are there any tennis players in history to which the 10,000 hour rule doesn't strictly apply as much due to their _natural talent?_
2 - Do you think a player's 'mental game' improves along with their physical improvement throughout the 10,000 hrs?
Great questions, I’ll address in a separate video
A pilot has a number of hours flying in order to qualify to be a certain level of his flying license. A skier also has perceived number mileage to required to be good.
I am familiar with the concept but I have not read the book. I wonder if those 10,000 hours can be “shortened” in someway by the things you do off the court such as eating right and making sure you rest in recover properly etc.
Katinka Hosszu swimmer practiced 8 hours a day. Judit Polgar chess player practiced 10-12 hours a day with 3 different coaces. Check their results on Wikipedia.
If you put 5000 hours learning any languge in 2 years than you will be master or expert in that language.
In 1964 the Beatles were touring the US. Also I can play guitar in German bars for 20.000 hours, but I'l never write Hey Jude or Strawberry Fields Forever. But i agree with the general point. Hamburg made them tough and disciplined and back in Britain they blew al the local bands away with their sound and energy. They had become pro's.
Yeah Paul Mccartney said the same...a lot of bands put in 10,000 hours.. most of them didn't make it.
@@AgentSmith-16384that seems to be a gift, people can try and try to write music then some someone who knows 4 chords comes along and writes music no problem
@AgentSmith-16384 yeah that 10k number sounds totally arbitrary. I could study music composition for 10k hours wouldn't be able to write a song .
I love tennis, because I hate the treadmill 😂
Similar here. I don’t particularly like just running as a form of exercise but I do run hard when playing tennis.
The adage practice with a purpose always applies. If you have no good direction practicing 24/7 is a waste of time. Best way to approach any sport is try and match the skills of the best players first through learning correct technique. Just find the right instruction which makes sense to you and produces the shot you are looking for. In tennis the average first serve speed on the ATP is 188km/120mph so your goal is to find how to get close to this level using correct technique. Once you get the technique down then you can put in the hours of practice time.
I love playing and have no idea how many hours I spent on court, I just know I want more :) But one question: do you think Sinner has spent 10 000 hours practicing before he turned pro? He is different from most players, because he started playing tennis seriously at 12. Obviously he had some basics by then, but he was not training super hard before turning 12. Then he only had like 4-5 years before he started competing on pro level. It’s really impressive. I guess the hours spent training other sports are important as well.
Sinner might be an outlier. Riccardo Piatti worked with early. He would be the best source of information.
@@IntuitiveTennis I also think he’s an outlier. But could be that the years of competitive skiing in early age helped his movement and stability. He is such a great mover for his height and he almost never looks off balance. Also his focus and mentality, gotta be extremely cool customer and have hard skin to do giant slalom at such a young age. It’s great he chose tennis though, he’s a super nice guy and a real gift to the sport with his game and personality.
People with great Kinesthetic sense and great coaching can shave a lot of time of the 10000 hour rule. Plus, I believe he has some ungodly advantage on the mental side of the game. I remember seeing him win his first tournament as an eighteen year old. I've never seen anybody that cool or composed at such a young age.
hi Coach Nik,
question, of those 10,000 hours roughly how many would you say need to also have coach involvement for technical improvement of shots? E.g for every 1 coaching hour, would you say that 9 hours of practice with ball machine or hitting partner need to be done to lock in technical improvement?
It depends how well players put what the coach is telling them into practice when they are by themselves. Some can do it quite well, while others can not.
@@IntuitiveTennis very cool, thanks Coach!! 😎😎😎
I'm playing 3 hours a week, so i guess i need more 64 years to get there ! lessss gooooooooooooo
This is not quite right what you say here. The 10,000 hours rule comes from a study by Anders Ericsson on violin players. This had also been done before with chessplayers. There it applies that a violinist / chess player who has practiced 10,000 hours is better than one who has practiced 5,000 hours. A problem; the 10,000 hour rule is wrong in 70% of cases. Gladwell interpreted that research in his own way and wrote a book about it.
There are always better sportstalents, musicians, chessplayers who have practiced (much) less. For example, from 88 other studies among 11,000 participants, it appears that the number of hours of practice only explains 12% of the success.
Tennis is an open skill sport. Tennis requires hand-eye coordination, motor skills, physical strength, fitness, mental strength, thinking ability, quick action, coping with pressure and making the right decision at the right time.
That makes recognizing sports talent and developing it so difficult and unpredictable. With 10,000 hours you don't create top athletes. Of all those children who train so hard and so much, even 99.7% drop out / don't make it. Usually due to burnout, overload, injuries, lack of motivation, mental problems or they turn out not to be good enough and their development stops.
Predictors of talent (how good you will become) are not the quantity of hours, but the quality of the training and the motivation, commitment, mental toughness of the child, decision making, and insight. And then there are also environmental factors, events and luck and coincidence.
Otherwise look at the research by Francois Gagne, Ross Tucker, Lewis Terman, Gullich, or read the book by Rasmus Ankersen (Goldmine effect).
I agree, Gladwell is no cognitive expert, he is a journalist. His example of the Beatles is laughable, Mccartney himself pointed out lots of bands put in 10k hours and are never successful.
Simple philosophy - do you like to hit a yellow ball - then do it as many times as you can. I am already doing that in my 74 years old and enjoy it started only a year ago.
🙌
Never took out the calculator to check 10 000 hours. 57 years? Phew.
What about Jannik Sinner? He started very late amd he got a grand slam now
Yeahhhhh I am about 30,000 coach 💪🏼😂
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Nice story, Nick. McCartney looked baffled when this was put to him. I calculate on their Hamburg contract they put in 7,235 hours, with a bullying club manager. But these sensitive 16-18 year olds had other distractions, inappropriate for this wise tale!
Great vid. Everybody can be pro. At their own level. Plenty tournaments. Imagine it being pro tournaments. Tennis is tennis! If u wanna practice 6 hours a day to get better or actually want to become pro its all good. U get ur reality check in a match. And even if u lose over and over u can still dream about becoming pro. Because its fun! Step by step is the best approach.
U dont have to be a pro to train play and practice a lot!
I don't want to turn pro but I want a pro style forehand and serve so I can beat the majority of rec players... how many hrs for this goal?
I watched a 3.5 match in a tournament the other day. One player was younger (early 40’s?), stronger, better serve, better forehand, etc. But he was beaten by an older (late 50’s??) player with a very weak serve and limited mobility on court. How? I think the older guy just knew the game better than the younger guy. He knew how to place the ball, how to mix up the rhythm of rallies, etc. It was fascinating to watch.
I truly belive that practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice do it. Playing with wrong technique can make some wrong habits which will destroy your tennis.
We can cut that in half by playing with pro players and getting taught by them just by rallying.
You can't become pro but you are gonna be happy and that's all that matters.
Hi There I’m New On
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Don’t agree here. Easier to practise music (not drums) to quickly build up to 8to 10 hours a day. Less easily possible with a physical sport
I think it’s correct though. Regardless of how difficult it is to accumulate 10,000 hours for a physical sport, that is what’s required to reach the professional level. All of the top ATP pros have played for several hours a day - for many years before turning pro.
I don’t know about that 10,000 hour theory because a player like Ben Shelton who started playing tennis at age 12 would have to put in 12 hours a day. I doubt he did that.
It's not only 10k hours but also with the correct technique. So you need a coach. Let's do 5k hours for coaching. $300/hour and $1.500.000 total....
Well as Paul Mccartney said, a lot of other bands put in 10,000 hours of practice and didn't make it. I think Gladwell simplfies things too much.
What about the rule of 100, doing something everyday for 18 minutes?
“ is it too late for me to turn pro”.
🤣 oh when will they learn.
Agassi hated tennis :-)
You can be a professional at anything and earn nothing because your no good at it. Delusional yes, I have a friend that spends $$$$$$$ entering tournaments all over the country , he's great at tennis but the prize money would not cover his food bill for the week but he loves hitting a ball. Good video Nick!
Play because you love tennis, not because you love your ego 😉
less time on no time on youtube will get you 10000 hours in
Good points, but I disagree with your epiphany. There are lots of rec players who genuinely love the game and have put in thousands of hours into tennis. Now how many of those players have focused those hours on drills, exercises, footwork patterns, etc that aren't "fun" but critical for them to improve to the next level?
It has to be the right 10000 hours as stated in the video. When the passion is there then the 10000 hours can come naturally.
I really do not understand why you engage in such type of conversations with people who believe they can reach 10.000 hours by playing 4 hours/week. You not only lose money but you also make them unhappy.
Sinner is the best in the World right now
Stop doing so much math, Shamir!
The 10,000 rule is total BS! Always has been. Media hopped on the idea. anyone who has been a really high end professional knows that. I f it were that easy, everyone would practice 10,000 hours and be a virtuoso violinist, or pro golfer or pro tennis player, bla bla bla. It takes much more than just hours, It’s a laughable concept