Darth Maul gets a lot of credit as a Juyo master, but when you watch the Duel of the Fates, what he actually does, fighting defensively and retreating to the reactor chamber, is actually more in line with Niman. Of course, once he had Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan isolated in the chamber, it's textbook Juyo, but his Niman skills shouldn't be discounted
Starkville ? Crewman of the Orville ? Jokes aside, only the Starkiller clone from TFU2 practiced Niman, Galen Marek was a Soresu/Shien/Juyo practitioner.
Well the lack of jar kai and double bladed lightsaber wielders on Geonosis may have been a part of the problems the Jedi who used it were practically untrained on Geonosis since they did not build a variance that was suitable or appropriate due to the circumstances the fact that jar kai and double bladed lightsabers were more used by sentinels instead of consulars makes it perhaps an inappropriate form for them to use and it is curious why they used it as a standard form due to a lack of sentinels in the clone wars any thoughts
Given how form 6's base form was form 3 is it just me but wouldn't have made more sense to simply study soresu true it was a predominately defensive form however like count dooku put it it is better to master one form than to be good at a few?Considering how people were too lazy to study lightsaber combat it would seem to make more sense to understand a simple form rather than putting the time on a form that excelled at nothing any thoughts?
The greatest form of all once mastered, unrivaled in flexibility and fluidity, with no great weaknesses and the potential to harness all of the strengths. Of course, that's the real catch: "once mastered." With a form which is touted as being easy to learn and most suited for those who don't want to spend excessive amounts of time on it, mastery is rare. There's a reason exactly 0 Form VI users survived the First Battle of Geonosis.
I've always imagined a true Niman master as someone who can adjust the many aspects of the style to combat any opponent. Your foe is using Form IV? Fight defensively using the elements of Soresu and Shien until they wear themselves out. Form V? Use the speed from Ataru and outmaneuver them. Being able to tailor your style around known strengths and weaknesses is an amazing advantage. It's no wonder Exar Kun and Revan favoured it when you consider their strategic minds
This is exactly what a master swordsman does in real life all the time you can't just rely on one style all the time you need to mix up styles keep your opponent off guard.
You said it yourself, both of them, the most notable examplar users of Form VI, are strategists. Using Form VI adeptly & effectively requires one to actively think on one's feet, a quality that few posseses, or it'd simply be a form you can rely enough on to get you out of a fight in one piece, provided that you're not stuck in the fight to begin with.
I dunno, Form V users are still OP 😅 if they're quick enough, even Ataru speed won't save you. Anakin added a little bit of Ataru to his Form V movement so you couldn't run from him
To me, even if it's not the style but the user who makes the difference, Form V is second best lightsaber forms just after Niman. Because Form V is already a start of hybridization of Soresu, Makashi and Ataru maneuvers in some ways. Form V is already balanced between defense and offense, has solid parries and blocks from Soresu, the efficiency and economy of movements of Makashi and the agressive philosophy of Ataru. Then it just build its own style with counter attacks and focus on raw physical strength. It is "easy" to build around that style to match almost any opponent just like Niman. Just Niman being much more harder to master fully. That's why Form V is my favorite, as Niman a close second one. But yeah, in potential, Niman is just nigh invincible. It's even more impressive when you know that Niman lacks of Makashi and Juyo maneuvers and techniques.@@thalmoragent9344
@bastienbauvineau562 Yeah I can agree with that. Form V Jemn So or Shien, either way it's very OP. Anakin adding in the speed and force augmented strength (basically the style of Ataru) to his Form V Jemn-So moveset is what made him a beast. (And Shien being the more defensive version is also great, better than Soresu since it allows for more aggressive deflection) I've placed Jemn-So, Juyo and Niman as my top 3 picks, but Jemn-So beats them in my mind.
What I love about Niman is something you touched a bit on but sadly didn’t elaborate more on. That Form VI is blank slate that practitioner’s can configure into whatever they need it to be. Revan using it as a tool for timing, going with the flow of battle, being offensive or defensive as the situation desired it. Exar Kun, an offensive dervish who created an (at the time) unorthodox weapon. Darth Krayt, while simlar to Kun’s mindset, focused more on the physical aspect trying to be as sketchy and unpredictable as possible with an abrupt change of styles.
Another way niman could be used is to counter an opponent's lightsaber form. What I mean by that is a niman user can adapt to their opponent's lightsaber form and pick the techniques from niman that best counter that form. Then they can use mostly those techniques against that opponent and because of niman"s versatility it will have techniques that can counter any form.
@@imasocialbutterflful Only works if the Niman practitioner’s skillset has enough techniques to strike at the weaknesses of your opponent. A strength based Niman may be sluggish to deal with a speedster. Or a defensive juggernaut unable to deal with a trickster.
Another thing you forgot to mention is that Niman is also perfect for incorporating foreign ways of fighting. If you're an expert in some an exotic way of fighting that can't be integrated to other lightsaber forms, then Niman is the perfect form for that. Geetsly himself said that the Jedi even got the name Niman after watching some exotic fighting style.
A jack of all trades, and really one that could be the most powerful and deadliest in any combat scenario. The usage of different styles of combat and merging them together with the usage of the force will make them truly combination of abilities and styles that will defeat any enemy if used properly.
I really really wish people would learn the whole saying for Jack of all trades. The whole thing goes "Jack of all trades, master of none, still better than a master of one". Basically it implies being able to do everything good is better than being able to do one thing great.
All the niman practitioners dying at geonosis says more about the decay of the jedi than the validity of the form. The perfected force heavy style is by definition more advanced and effective than it's parts. When studied lightly as a cheat to reduce time spent on martial abilities it is only useful against pirates and cowards. When studied for combat it's a lethal skill set but the jedi treated it like taebo. Consulars studying any form other than Soresu was criminally negligent homicide on the part of jedi instructors.
The Jedi Order as a whole was not prepared to wage a war, something that Darth Sidious exploited magnificently. Geonosis was a killing ground for Jedi, but I would argue that that was as much a consequence of Mace Windu's shockingly abysmal tactics as any weakness of Niman as a Form. Windu led them into a slaughter, and then immediately led the Clones into another. In summation, Geonosis was the perfect storm of errors, beginning with the Jedi not realizing the situation they were walking into. Gathering a bunch of Niman-wielding ordinary Jedi to go into open warfare is like taking a civilian cop and throwing them into a mission alongside Seal Team Six; their training is sufficient for their normal job, but they just aren't equipped to deal with that level of warfare.
Exar Kun and Darth Krayt are two of my favorite Sith of all time. Despite being a form based around moderation and flow, it took an embrace of the Dark Side to really see Niman's potential fulfilled as one of the deadliest combat forms in the galaxy.
I’d see Darth Krayt as the superior Niman user. He’s not as reliant on a gimmicky lightsaber as Kun nor on an insane physical edge like Grievous. Krayt just one or two lightsabers and his extreme power in the Force
@@Trey-dp6tl 🤡 exar kun was way stronger physically than grivious and his Niman techniques from the dark jedi exile tulak hord ajunta pall ect he also could use sith magic and dark side tendrils to distract his enemies and kill them easy even luke Skywalker couldn't deal with his skills
@@Trey-dp6tl krayt didn't have as much power In the force compared to a prime exar. If a weakened drained exar spirit was more powerful than prime luke Skywalker and vader image if he was st full power at that time it took luke Skywalker to be in his spirit form be able to handle kun alone with other force users krayt is overrated
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 krayts spirit is most certainly more powerful than luke at his peak. No one short of abeloth really was. And only prime sidious, Krayt, and *maybe* vitiate even compared. I’m not sure where you get the idea krayts overhyped either most folks never bring him up.
This style sounds right up my alley. I would also think that more Force users would use precise Force pushes and pulls on their opponents kneecaps and legs in the middle of a fight or use the force in their offhand to push their opponent's blade off Target preventing them from ever blocking. The Force is basically the perfect tool for sweeping the leg
I still wish that you would've shown every style's default stance. For example, Form III's is Obi-Wan's battle stance where he has the blade parallel to his left arm. Form IV's is holding the blade to your right pointing upwards with both hands.
If you mean in the thumbnail, fair enough. But he literally shown niman pose at the first few seconds. But then again there are different poses that shows niman, including Cal Kestus in fallen order when he first met the second sister.
@@TheLuconic There's no opening stance for Niman. Opening stances are signatures & identities of the forms themselves, & Niman doesn't have a signature nor identity of its own. It's simply a form that reflect & project what the user already is.
I wish Star Wars showed more strategy regarding that. About the only time strategy was shown explicitly, was when Obi-Wan changed from Form III to IV to bait Maul into trying the same combo that worked against Qui-Gon
The insults are actually warranted. With the abhorrently rare exceptions like Exar Kun & Revan, most simply took the form because it's easy to pick up & leaves them to figure out what to do with the options they've learned. In the hands of the eager & diligent, it's free real estate for unique mixes & matches. For just about anyone else, the form simply encourages laziness.
I’d also consider Roan Shryne from Rise of Darth Vader to be a Niman master and, in my opinion, the best Niman user during the Clone Wars. Man survived the entire war with barely a connection to the Force on lightsaber skill alone
I remember hearing from Jensaarai that Satele Shan's Jedi Master, Kao Cen Darach, is the best depiction of a Niman Master. His style was unorthodox, mixed with blade work and Force powers, signs of the form. Niman, to its highest form, is pretty cool.
The most underrated of all the classic forms in my opinion. A master of form VI would have had to master all previous forms and combined all that knowledge into a form unique to the user, which would make them a dangerously unpredictable opponent to someone unfamiliar with them.
Not really. A master of Form VI simply means they know how to play with techniques of all previous forms in unorthodox, unique ways. It's a scenario of someone beating a swordsman with a screwdriver. Said someone didn't win because he's a master swordsman with a disadvantaged tool, but because he knows enough about swordplay to counter the moves, while using the screwdriver in probably absurd, baffling ways.
Both Cal and Luke, if I’m not mistaken. Would make sense, as they have to piece together old instructions and create a style of their own. VI is perfect for that, plus it is a hard counter to any foe. Incredibly useful during and after the empire.
It’s the low to entry but high skill ceiling form. A master of the form is essentially unbeatable but good luck finding a master of the form haha. Its my favorite form to boot, wish it got more love in the clone wars but it makes sense though. A form 6 master would be rare at the time as the form is basically used by jedi who don’t like to saber fight in the first place. Which means the drive to master the form simply isn’t there for the majority of practitioners.
The form's inherent weakness lies with it's greatest strength. A form that encourages you to do everything is essentially a form that DOESN'T encourage you to do anything. It's a form that doesn't call for mastery but unique applications of its teachings. Only the most driven & the most creative, qualities required for one to be a battlefield strategist, would truly become an effective jack of all trades with the form.
A jack of all trades and a master of none, taking all previous forms and using them together, a perfectly balanced form and one that follows the mantra: Variety is the spice of life. It doesn't favor one of the other it uses them all. I've always liked it for that, it's like forming a balanced Pokemon team to cover everything instead of focusing on one type. I mean I say that but I've only played two Pokemon games and for one of them I didn't have a balanced team as 5 of the 6 were weak to Ice, but it's still a good concept and Form to employ. If I wasn't so much of a coward who preferred defense, Form 6 would be where I go instead of Form 3.
I wish people would learn the whole saying. People say Jack of all trades master of none as and think it's bad, but the whole saying is "Jack of all trades, master of none, still better than a master of one."
Out of all the lightsaber forms, Form VI was the one I knew the least about. Having learned more about it through this video, I can honestly say that I find it incredibly intriguing and awesome.
This treatment of it actually sounds a lot more like my own style of things than it usually comes off, almost a Jeet-kune-do philosophy of things. Especially lending to thinking with both hands, (I think I'd be terrible with a double lightsaber, but *paired* swords, that I've done very well with.) Anyway, dunno where to go with this but I think you're doing a nice treatment of lightaber forms here. :)
Niman sounds like a lightsaber style for me if I was a Jedi in a galaxy far far away. A blank slate to make my own style by blending different disciplines into one cohesive combat style. Plus who doesn't love dual-wielding, I sure do.
Always been a fan of niman, being a jack of all trades form with almost no weaknesses and then personally would put more emphasis on form 5 techniques and then you can incorporate force powers and jar-khai. Just makes it the best to me personally.
I see the likes Revan and Exar Kun as exceptions rather than the rule. For those who lacked absolute mastery over the form, Niman’s lack of specialization was too much of a liability. You omitted how not a single Form VI practitioner in the Geonosis Arena survived that battle.
Precisely. Form VI is essentially a form that gives you every option available & tells you NOTHING about what to do with them. If you lack the initiative to figure out what to do with the tools you're given, as most Form VI users do, you'd be essentially running into the battlefield knowing everything yet capable of doing nothing.
They were really unsuited for that fight. Many of them most likely preferred to focus on other studies than their bladework, thus giving them essentially a novice understanding of combat. Especially when paired with an individualistic style like Form VI.
This is the most comprehensive overview of Niman I have seen. Good job. Nice touching on how it came about and distinguishing it from Jar Kai, something I have never been clear on.
I love how Niman exemplifies the nature of a work ethic. Many Jedi who weren’t interested in saber combat went with it and many got killed because of it. But for someone who put in the effort it was one of the strongest
My interview on “Topic Time” with Harrison Blake Young to promote my 4 books went excellent. Didn’t go into full detail with the books because they’re so extensive, didn’t want to give any of the plots away, and I often don’t feel comfortable talking about them with other people. I dressed casually to make myself more comfortable and not make myself look like a stuffed up, starch collared ass. Glad I won’t have to be working up to 65 hours or more a week like I have been the past 5 years at both Home Depot and as a machinist at Alpha Grainger. Now I can relax, have more free time, still work at the machine shop, and write more often. It’s going to be on UA-cam & Easton Community Access Television sometime next week. Not sure when.
Studying Cal Kestis's moves, he actually uses a lot of Nimann techniques. Granted, it's difficult as the player does have an input on the exact style Cal uses, but it's definitely there. What's more impressive is that Cameron Monaghan came up with the moves all on his own.
Correction. Cal Kestis techniques, NOT Niman. Anything you can find in Niman, you can find in the other forms. It's the APPLICATION of said techniques deviating from the standard that makes Niman, Niman.
Jaina solo used Niman to great effect during the 2nd civil war as she made things look weak but were strengths instead. Jacen used the multi weapon form to wield blasters and other things. Niman changed during the new jedi order as it allowed the use of blasters, metal swords, knives, and who knows as the vong advanced and the Jedi had to adapt weapons for whatever they were fighting. Mara jade also used it similarly. Niman literally had no limit on what it could do just whatever weapon was available you used. It’s flexibility made it a excellent form to fall upon if everything fails. It’s like form 1 but a better choice if all goes bad.
Form VI is an underrated form. A hard counter to every opponent, it can be adapted on the fly for any use. Offence, defence, blaster deflection, counterattacks, thus throwing opponents off balance and ensuring a swift and satisfying resolution to any fight. A Form VI and Form II combination could be a force to be reckoned with. All the elegance and focus of Form II with all the versatility and adaptability of Form VI. Used in conjunction with either the Force or a blaster, or both, it is bound to be an elegant yet unorthodox fighting style. One perfect for Jedi Sentinels (or similar force users during and after the reign of the empire), highly unorthodox individuals in their own right who face a great variety of foes and dark side practitioners. That’s how I would do it. No question.
I disagree with the last statement, while Juyo was powerful against Djem So and Soresu, Niman was strong against Juyo because it actively used force and that was the weakness of Juyo. Even though no one specifically said it I would argue that Niman and Makashi were the only forms capable defeating Juyo outright when the duelists were evenly matched. Forms III and V were weak against it (but that is nor absolute guaranty of victory) and Ataru was probably neutral because it was similar in many ways. And Form I was basically weak against all other forms when evenly matched.
Niman - The accelerating progression type. Most other forms being steady progression where it's fairly linear but niman has a low barrier to entry but turns into a very steep and high learning curve Had it's reputation and potential ruined by pacifist using it wrong.
exar kun was the greatest niman user he mastered in a aggressive version he incorporated techniques from the jedi exile tulak hord and many more ancient sith lords also combine with his modified lightsaber blade and his skills with sith magic archemy he will be deadly for anybody that's why luke Skywalker students defeated their master without much struggling because luke Skywalker never saw that kind of skills
Too many fans skip over Niman in their haste to place their attention on Juyo, thus neglecting a form that should be fairly respected. One might even go so far as to say Niman already had the potential to be what Juyo aspired to, if only the practitioner would dedicate themselves to mastery. Thank you for spot-lighting this form of swordsmanship, Geetsly's team, and for your service to all who love Star Wars.
That's one of the glaring shortcomings of the form. Unlike other forms, it DOESN'T encourage mastery. While all 5 previous forms have clear-cut criteria for defining mastery, one could only tell if one have mastered Form VI in real, actual fights.
I think Niiman would probably be complemented by basic study of each of the previous 5 forms, which would allow you greater understanding of each individual component that makes up form VI, which would allow you to better understand how to modify it for the situation
The Exar Kun/Ulic Qel Droma saga by Dark Horse is to this day my favorite StarWars story outside of the original trilogy. I wish Disney would've remade it but at the same time they wouldve ruined it.
This is the style I said that I think I would use as I belive I'd either be a sentinal or a consular I would be more force focused nd I always wanted a blade that came apart into 2 single blades soooo I thought was perfect niman and jarki even though I would say I wpuld b force focused premeraly I wouldn't slack on fighting technique nd I would want to fully master it
So often you see jetta using force push, I wanna hear one say "Get over here" And just pull a commanding Military officer for a good distance away to write in front of them.
"A simple emission of gas. Sometimes audible, but be wary when not, for it'll make its presence known in a far less pleasant way. From being exposed to its smell one can learn much about its creator's health condition, and perhaps even their recent eating habits."
It’s rather funny that they say that Niman was the most common lightsaber style when nearly EVERY Jedi in Clone Wars was not a master of it and specialized in all the other 4 forms. We don’t have a SINGLE exemple of one bladed lightsaber duelist who favored Niman on screen except Darth Maul, who used it against Obiwan back at Phantom Manace. Every Jedi back at the clone wars would use either Djem So, Soresu, Ataru and a few Makashi practicioners.
I think many jedi and sith thought the way Dooku did that to learn many forms is a waist and to master 1 is the best and they are partially right yes focusing on 1 form and mastering it can make you a great dualist but so can being great at all of them because all forms except 6 have great strengths and great weaknesses and if you focus only on 1 form you can try to make those weaknesses less notable but they are still there yes a great defense is important but like the old saying goes the best defense is a strong offense instead of waiting for your opponent to come to you go to them and instead of trying to finness your way around an opponent’s defense like in form 2 you can choose to smash through using form 5 and if you use form 4 you can try to confuse your opponent with constant movement and use the force to boost your power strikes so by combining forms you can make your strengths stronger and your weaknesses far less notable
In the end it's easier said then done. You could go to school to be a lawyer only for a medical emergency to occur. Anyone could be both a lawyer and a soctor but how many people will put themselves through so much schooling and how good can you be a both if you're splitting your work days between a firm and a hospital. It takes a DaVinci, a Renaisance type of person, to actually take the time to carefully master multiple forms.
I suppose one reason why it is hard to gain mastery in form six is that you must find a way to reconcile the the various incompatible elements of the earlier styles it is based on once have the basics down. Try doing style 1 interception, 2`s deflection (tho style 6 often omit Makashi), 3`s tight guard, 4`s dodge and 5`s centerline counters all at once...
Niman seems to be easy to learn but hard to master, which led to it being favoured by diplomats who didn't intend to master their form to begin with. However, when fully mastered it can produce some of the greatest duelists the Jedi order has ever known.
6 videos into this series, and I just realized how bizarre it is that an order of warrior monks made up of species that evolved on multiple different planets could all be built so similarly that they could teach each other specific fighting forms. (I get that all of these forms draw upon/are guided by the Force itself to one degree or another, so even a creature built like an octopus could theoretically master all of these forms, but training would SUCK.)
I believe Obi Wan would’ve been a great form 6 user. He fully mastered Form 3 and technically mastered forms 1&4 with strong knowledge of Shien and Djem So. With Form 1&3 being the basis of his form 6 it could fight multiple blaster wielding opponents or fight a lightsaber dueling specialist
I don't think of Form VI as a blank slate, if anything it's the opposite. Niman is a prearranged package of lightsaber moves and mentalities carried over from the prior forms. It's an academic's form designed to teach as much as possible with as little time spent as possible. Niman practitioners are typically the sort of student who's more than happy to let other masters to the creative legwork when it comes to designing a style, so they can focus on other things. It's certainly malleable, Shii Cho is definitely the blank slate of the bunch. Although most Niman practitioners typically suck in combat, because most aren't trying to become great swordsman, I do agree that the ones who do are among the greatest of all time. I think all depends how you prefer to learn. As for Juyo, I don't think it's more powerful than Niman, but it certainly is more offensive. A form six user would certainly have to be on their toes.
Niman can easily be one of the deadliest forms of lightsaber combat. However it is also by far the hardest one to fully master. If you want to use it again a dedicated duelist then you have to be a master, otherwise you won’t last 5 minutes.
My favorite form, if I was a Jedi them form 6 and 2 would be my go to since form 6 has lacks some elements of form 2, might as well work on what the form is lacking. As for lightsabers I would like to have 2 different lightsabers. One being a lightsaber pike and the second being a curved hilt.
I’m curious but after you discuss Form VII, will that be the end of this series, or is there more out there in the Galaxy far, far away that I don’t know about.
Why some Jedi like Obi-wan seemed to care so much about their own lightsaber like it is an extension of oneself while some other Jedi have no regards of losing their lightsabers like whatsoever? I mean, it's just a piece of metal that can ignite energy blade because of the kyber crystal inside. The other Jedi seemed to be like "My lightsaber was lost or destroyed. Can I get another one?" while those like Obi-wan make a big deal about it.
Well, some of them might have been quite fond of their weapons and took good care of them. Not unlike the differing philosophies when concerning car ownership. Some see it as a mere tool, some cherish and surgically maintain them.
Well and truly my favorite form. I imagine that I would easily fit into the mold of a Jedi Consular or Sith Inquisitor. Though I doubt I would ever become a true master of Niman, I do enjoy a good fight and would rely on this form.
If you're the type who identifies with a consular & 'enjoy a good fight', you'd do better with Form I or Form III. Form VI only truly rewards those who put in the time & effort MORE than those practicing other forms usually would, & people who're good at thinking on their feet. The 'easy to pick up' part is only enough for one to survive a fight in one piece, if one were to be able to get out of the fight in time.
@@FalconWindblader Darth Sidious, Darth Plagueis, Darth Revan, and Inquisitor Jerec were all Niman practitioners. They focused much more on their Force abilities but were unafraid or even enjoyed a lightsaber duel. Those are the models I would refer to.
@@archades115 Darth Plagueis ain't known that much of a fighter, Darth Sidious especially hated using lightsabers & wouldn't use one unless he has to, & Inquisitor Jerec ain't even a Form VI user to begin with. The only noteworthy in your list would be Revan, & if that's your ideal, prepare to work even harder than the guardians in terms of lightsaber training, unless you're extremely gifted. Skilled Form VI users are not uncommon & Form VI masters are not exceedingly rare without good reasons after all.
@@FalconWindblader Darth Sidious and Darth Plagueis not enjoying lightsaber duels is not the point. The point is that they were masters of Niman, in spite of focusing on their Force abilities. And Jerec probably was a Niman practitioner as a Jedi, given his unorthodox use of Makashi and heavy integration of Force powers.
@@archades115 There's nothing in the works that even remotely suggested that both of them were even Niman users, let alone masters. Darth Sidious' loathing for lightsabers was even especially noteworthy given that Niman is especially time-consuming to get effective. He wouldn't be hating lightsabers if he would be so willing to delve that deep into lightsaber combat, & if he did so as a lightsaber hater, his bladework would've been abhorrently sloppy. & By the way, his style is more like a very vicious version of Ataru. That much is evident in its constantly crazy speed & unchecked aggressiveness. Besides, Darth Sidious never bothered peppering fights with Force powers after he drew his blade. & Finally, a Jedi or a Sith ain't necessarily a Niman user just because they favor uses Force powers regularly in combat. Niman is still primarily a lightsaber combat form, & Force powers are only meant to augment bladework, making it easy for them to handle themselves in a fight. Use of Force powers is NOT forbidden in the other forms, & when fighting gets less intense, Jedi & Sith alike would more often than not, throw in Force powers & examples are aplenty. If a Jedi or Sith just keeps spamming Force powers while hardly ever drawing their blades in a fight, then they're just using Force powers instead of using a lightsaber combat form. It's just like how one can hold a gun & a sword at the same time, yet you can't say you're using swordsmanship while using the gun in your other hand like 70% of the time & more. In this case, you're just using a gun while holding a sword.
Personally I don't really think Revan should be counted among the Sith, not only did come back to the light in KOTOR1, its revealed later his fall wasn't exactly done willingly. (bad writing it maybe but still) Besides that this was a great breakdown, Niman is personally my favorite form.
I'd rather phase out form 4 ataru which I don't like and switch it for form 2 Makashi then you'd have my favourite style. But as it stands, Ataru, Niman and Juyo are my least favourite forms. So instead I would focus on forms 1, 2, 3 and both varients of 5.
That's only possible when you're a battlemaster, the kind of jedi who's all about fighting 24/7. Anyone else could be counted as exemplary, if not exceptional, just by being SKILLED enough with 3 forms.
@@FalconWindblader A battle master knows all 7 I'm talking about learning just 4 or reinventing form 6. Cin Drallig didn't do much fighting, but he did technically master all the forms. But there are also other jedi who have been able to study all forms. And it's not just battle masters it's lightsabre instructors in general who know all 7. A battlemaster is what I would have aspired to be if I didn't dislike 3 of the 7 forms so much. I don't think I could fully grapple the philosophy of form 3 and I believe few jedi ever truly did but I think it's a good supplement for form 5 even if it would be a more of a technical mastery without fully embracing the philosophy, I think form 1 would come very natural to me, but forms 2 and 5 would take more desiccation and would be my primary focus of study. Pretty much all I'd do is train and be a part time archivist and or historian, so I'd have plenty of time to train at the temple, since I'd be a consular. Guardians can't get away with that sort of thing they have to stick with what's practical in the field probably just mastering one to three forms without being innovative. But consular can spend years training Niman which is composed of 4 of the 7 forms. It would be a challenge, but others have done more than study 4 forms.
@@benerdick_cumberbiatch You've grossly underestimated just how time-consuming it'd be if you wanna be good in more than 2 forms, & think that you'd have time to be a historian & archivist. Just like how it is with real life martial arts, getting extremely skilled with any ONE of the forms would take considerable amount of time, ESPECIALLY when it comes to Form 6. Wanting to even be good in just 3 would already mean that you won't have time for anything else other than food & sleep, unless you're one of those very long-lived species. If it had been that easy to get good with many forms, specialists wouldn't have been a thing.
@@FalconWindblader Think of a modern historian who is also a librarian working both jobs part time who also practises MMA. Sure they probably won't be well versed in every subject of history, they'd specialise in one era. Would they be out there fighting for the UFC winning titles? No. Would they be particularly good at any one fighting style? Maybe, but probably not to the point they could beat world class boxers at their own sport. Could they beat other MMA fighters who have more real fight experience but haven't trained as much? Possibly. MMA is like Niman it's multiple fighting styles mixed together. Say you wanted to switch out a common component of MMA, Brazilian jujutsu for one which isn't as commonly practised. Now you have your own style. Also if you stayed at the Jedi temple you have access to training grounds, the archives and you could study history there. You don't need to travel from place to place. So yes I believe it would be quite a task, but it's not impossible.
@@benerdick_cumberbiatch Jacks of all trades & master of none in the very truest sense of the word then. Beyond amateur, but nothing truly professional. It could work in that case, personally speaking, but it'd make me wonder if the Jedi order would actually allow one of its members to spend so much time in what is essentially their own hobbies instead.
can someone explain how general grievous can be an example of form 6 when he is not force sensitive at all? I know his cybernetics were advanced enough to keep up with Jedi precognition, but he still could not use the force that would be required of form 6.
That's the misunderstanding about the form. Form VI places heavy emphasis on outwardly expressive Force use because it's the other tool always available to the Jedi other than their lightsabers. You can find a Niman user who spams telekinetic moves all the time, just as likely as you can find one who doesn't use such powers in combat at all. It's the unique, creative use of whatever tool a Jedi has at their disposal, even a blaster or hell, a metal pipe, that defines the form, NOT expressive use of Force powers.
@@FalconWindblader general grievous is a ability mimic. he just copies styles, and he falls back on fighting dirty when ever he can. I still not call him a user of form 6, but someone who is trained against form 6 users should do better then others against general grievous. Also Kit Fisto made general grievous look like a fool in their duel in the clonewars show. Kit Fisto is a master of form 1. If general grievous could have adapted better like y'll say form 6 does He would have overwhelmed Kit Fisto
Qui Gon Jinn's style should be Niman instead of Ataru. Second, Niman should be one of the deadlier styles of Lightsaber combat. The lack of Niman masters during the republic era is a sign of the degredation of the Jedi Order.
It seems like an interesting "style" but the lack of structure in the form feels a little problematic from an educational point of view. I have to imagine much of it would be correcting over reaching or being too passive. The lack of force power integration in the previous forms seems like a massive oversight, but that seems to be a common thread in all of star wars with very few individuals treating and exploring the force like the space magic it is.
The lack of Force power use in previous forms is NOT an oversight. Just like physical combat, use of outwardly expressive Force powers require focus. Constantly switching between lightsaber & Force power is akin to trying to watch 2 different shows at the same time, or shoot at 2 different targets with the 2 guns in your hands. It's a feat that's insanely difficult, if not utterly impossible to pull.
Darth Maul gets a lot of credit as a Juyo master, but when you watch the Duel of the Fates, what he actually does, fighting defensively and retreating to the reactor chamber, is actually more in line with Niman. Of course, once he had Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan isolated in the chamber, it's textbook Juyo, but his Niman skills shouldn't be discounted
that is just classic 2v1 fighting. 2v1 you always backing up and moving alot to avoid getting flanked
I'm like 99% sure this is a copypasta of an older star wars vid (I think from Star Wars Explained or a similar channel).
Yeah, finally someone sees it. To learn and master form VII you need to base it from somewhere, form VI is Darth Maul’s base.
Niman did Incorporate a dual blade as well as a Single blade.
Dooku also incorporates Niman moves. Ultimately each duellist develops their own style and makes it their own using the forms as a baseline.
Niman is deadly if you are Exar Kun, Revan, Darth Kraut, or Starkiller. If you're anyone else stay way from Geonosis if Niman is what you plan to use.
Dont forget the jedi exile if she was a jedi watchman class
Darth Kraut is a fan of sauerkraut ? Just being silly.
Starkville ? Crewman of the Orville ?
Jokes aside, only the Starkiller clone from TFU2 practiced Niman, Galen Marek was a Soresu/Shien/Juyo practitioner.
Well the lack of jar kai and double bladed lightsaber wielders on Geonosis may have been a part of the problems the Jedi who used it were practically untrained on Geonosis since they did not build a variance that was suitable or appropriate due to the circumstances the fact that jar kai and double bladed lightsabers were more used by sentinels instead of consulars makes it perhaps an inappropriate form for them to use and it is curious why they used it as a standard form due to a lack of sentinels in the clone wars any thoughts
Given how form 6's base form was form 3 is it just me but wouldn't have made more sense to simply study soresu true it was a predominately defensive form however like count dooku put it it is better to master one form than to be good at a few?Considering how people were too lazy to study lightsaber combat it would seem to make more sense to understand a simple form rather than putting the time on a form that excelled at nothing any thoughts?
The greatest form of all once mastered, unrivaled in flexibility and fluidity, with no great weaknesses and the potential to harness all of the strengths.
Of course, that's the real catch: "once mastered." With a form which is touted as being easy to learn and most suited for those who don't want to spend excessive amounts of time on it, mastery is rare. There's a reason exactly 0 Form VI users survived the First Battle of Geonosis.
They never mastered the form.
Kreia could be describing a fart and its like life altering knowledge. She's got a mythical voice and such a way with words its mind bending.
I've always imagined a true Niman master as someone who can adjust the many aspects of the style to combat any opponent.
Your foe is using Form IV? Fight defensively using the elements of Soresu and Shien until they wear themselves out.
Form V? Use the speed from Ataru and outmaneuver them.
Being able to tailor your style around known strengths and weaknesses is an amazing advantage.
It's no wonder Exar Kun and Revan favoured it when you consider their strategic minds
This is exactly what a master swordsman does in real life all the time you can't just rely on one style all the time you need to mix up styles keep your opponent off guard.
You said it yourself, both of them, the most notable examplar users of Form VI, are strategists. Using Form VI adeptly & effectively requires one to actively think on one's feet, a quality that few posseses, or it'd simply be a form you can rely enough on to get you out of a fight in one piece, provided that you're not stuck in the fight to begin with.
I dunno, Form V users are still OP 😅 if they're quick enough, even Ataru speed won't save you. Anakin added a little bit of Ataru to his Form V movement so you couldn't run from him
To me, even if it's not the style but the user who makes the difference, Form V is second best lightsaber forms just after Niman. Because Form V is already a start of hybridization of Soresu, Makashi and Ataru maneuvers in some ways. Form V is already balanced between defense and offense, has solid parries and blocks from Soresu, the efficiency and economy of movements of Makashi and the agressive philosophy of Ataru. Then it just build its own style with counter attacks and focus on raw physical strength. It is "easy" to build around that style to match almost any opponent just like Niman. Just Niman being much more harder to master fully. That's why Form V is my favorite, as Niman a close second one. But yeah, in potential, Niman is just nigh invincible. It's even more impressive when you know that Niman lacks of Makashi and Juyo maneuvers and techniques.@@thalmoragent9344
@bastienbauvineau562
Yeah I can agree with that. Form V Jemn So or Shien, either way it's very OP.
Anakin adding in the speed and force augmented strength (basically the style of Ataru) to his Form V Jemn-So moveset is what made him a beast. (And Shien being the more defensive version is also great, better than Soresu since it allows for more aggressive deflection)
I've placed Jemn-So, Juyo and Niman as my top 3 picks, but Jemn-So beats them in my mind.
Dual wielding Jedi Consular... well, that's mostly my Revan in KotOR. Extremely fitting.
What I love about Niman is something you touched a bit on but sadly didn’t elaborate more on. That Form VI is blank slate that practitioner’s can configure into whatever they need it to be. Revan using it as a tool for timing, going with the flow of battle, being offensive or defensive as the situation desired it. Exar Kun, an offensive dervish who created an (at the time) unorthodox weapon. Darth Krayt, while simlar to Kun’s mindset, focused more on the physical aspect trying to be as sketchy and unpredictable as possible with an abrupt change of styles.
Another way niman could be used is to counter an opponent's lightsaber form. What I mean by that is a niman user can adapt to their opponent's lightsaber form and pick the techniques from niman that best counter that form. Then they can use mostly those techniques against that opponent and because of niman"s versatility it will have techniques that can counter any form.
@@imasocialbutterflful Only works if the Niman practitioner’s skillset has enough techniques to strike at the weaknesses of your opponent. A strength based Niman may be sluggish to deal with a speedster. Or a defensive juggernaut unable to deal with a trickster.
Another thing you forgot to mention is that Niman is also perfect for incorporating foreign ways of fighting. If you're an expert in some an exotic way of fighting that can't be integrated to other lightsaber forms, then Niman is the perfect form for that. Geetsly himself said that the Jedi even got the name Niman after watching some exotic fighting style.
A jack of all trades, and really one that could be the most powerful and deadliest in any combat scenario. The usage of different styles of combat and merging them together with the usage of the force will make them truly combination of abilities and styles that will defeat any enemy if used properly.
I really really wish people would learn the whole saying for Jack of all trades. The whole thing goes "Jack of all trades, master of none, still better than a master of one". Basically it implies being able to do everything good is better than being able to do one thing great.
Stop talking
@@markcarpenter6020 stop talking
@@ericthreeman make me
@@markcarpenter6020 respect. Finally another person who knows its truth. 👽
All the niman practitioners dying at geonosis says more about the decay of the jedi than the validity of the form. The perfected force heavy style is by definition more advanced and effective than it's parts.
When studied lightly as a cheat to reduce time spent on martial abilities it is only useful against pirates and cowards.
When studied for combat it's a lethal skill set but the jedi treated it like taebo. Consulars studying any form other than Soresu was criminally negligent homicide on the part of jedi instructors.
The Jedi Order as a whole was not prepared to wage a war, something that Darth Sidious exploited magnificently. Geonosis was a killing ground for Jedi, but I would argue that that was as much a consequence of Mace Windu's shockingly abysmal tactics as any weakness of Niman as a Form. Windu led them into a slaughter, and then immediately led the Clones into another.
In summation, Geonosis was the perfect storm of errors, beginning with the Jedi not realizing the situation they were walking into. Gathering a bunch of Niman-wielding ordinary Jedi to go into open warfare is like taking a civilian cop and throwing them into a mission alongside Seal Team Six; their training is sufficient for their normal job, but they just aren't equipped to deal with that level of warfare.
Compared to the Jedi of the Old Republic era(who had thier own problems) the "modern era" Jedi were basically bible thumping mall cops.
Well, the others could be heavily augmented by the force as well, particularly 5 and 7..
@@GiggaGMikeE
Well, most of them. Some still knew how to properly wield a Saber
I believe with 86 percent of the Jedi dying on Geonosis it’s very hard to point at a single style being weak since masters of various forms died.
Exar Kun and Darth Krayt are two of my favorite Sith of all time. Despite being a form based around moderation and flow, it took an embrace of the Dark Side to really see Niman's potential fulfilled as one of the deadliest combat forms in the galaxy.
To my mind, the greatest will always be Grievous or the late and great Exar Kun. They had the most distinctive personalities amongst most users
I’d see Darth Krayt as the superior Niman user. He’s not as reliant on a gimmicky lightsaber as Kun nor on an insane physical edge like Grievous. Krayt just one or two lightsabers and his extreme power in the Force
@@Trey-dp6tl 🤡 exar kun was way stronger physically than grivious and his Niman techniques from the dark jedi exile tulak hord ajunta pall ect he also could use sith magic and dark side tendrils to distract his enemies and kill them easy even luke Skywalker couldn't deal with his skills
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 I agree he claps Grievous, but he’ll have a heck of a time defeating Darth Krayt
@@Trey-dp6tl krayt didn't have as much power In the force compared to a prime exar. If a weakened drained exar spirit was more powerful than prime luke Skywalker and vader image if he was st full power at that time it took luke Skywalker to be in his spirit form be able to handle kun alone with other force users krayt is overrated
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 krayts spirit is most certainly more powerful than luke at his peak. No one short of abeloth really was. And only prime sidious, Krayt, and *maybe* vitiate even compared. I’m not sure where you get the idea krayts overhyped either most folks never bring him up.
This style sounds right up my alley. I would also think that more Force users would use precise Force pushes and pulls on their opponents kneecaps and legs in the middle of a fight or use the force in their offhand to push their opponent's blade off Target preventing them from ever blocking. The Force is basically the perfect tool for sweeping the leg
I still wish that you would've shown every style's default stance. For example, Form III's is Obi-Wan's battle stance where he has the blade parallel to his left arm. Form IV's is holding the blade to your right pointing upwards with both hands.
AKA the literal first image result for Qui-Gon Jinn.
@@InfinityOrNone Yep exactly. That's the stuff I mean. I've always found them interesting.
If you mean in the thumbnail, fair enough. But he literally shown niman pose at the first few seconds. But then again there are different poses that shows niman, including Cal Kestus in fallen order when he first met the second sister.
@@TheLuconic There's no opening stance for Niman. Opening stances are signatures & identities of the forms themselves, & Niman doesn't have a signature nor identity of its own. It's simply a form that reflect & project what the user already is.
I wish Star Wars showed more strategy regarding that.
About the only time strategy was shown explicitly, was when Obi-Wan changed from Form III to IV to bait Maul into trying the same combo that worked against Qui-Gon
I love that this often insulted form (both in and out of universe) is popular amongst so many great Jedi and Sith.
Then you remind them that Niman was exar kuns lightsaber form and they quiet right down lol.
@@danielsuarez3198 And Revan's form.😁
@@jackwitt7430 yeah my bad lol i was getting out of a 15 hr shift and forgot about him 🤣
The insults are actually warranted. With the abhorrently rare exceptions like Exar Kun & Revan, most simply took the form because it's easy to pick up & leaves them to figure out what to do with the options they've learned. In the hands of the eager & diligent, it's free real estate for unique mixes & matches. For just about anyone else, the form simply encourages laziness.
@@FalconWindblader they didn’t study hard enough
My favorite Form VI practitioners:
1. Exar Kun
2. Darth Krayt
3. Johun Othone
4. Darth Plagueis (suggested)
5. Kao Cen Darach (suggested)
Cin Drallig and Darth Revan.
Revan also is a master at form 6
I’d also consider Roan Shryne from Rise of Darth Vader to be a Niman master and, in my opinion, the best Niman user during the Clone Wars. Man survived the entire war with barely a connection to the Force on lightsaber skill alone
Let's add :
Cal Kestis
Eeth Koth (suggested)
Asajj Ventress
Starkiller clone from TFU2
Grievous
@@yrooxrksvi7142 Asajj is a Makashi master and Koth’s technique looks a lot more like Makashi than anything else
One of the greatest mysteries of the force is how the diplomats form got the term "way of the rancor"
I remember hearing from Jensaarai that Satele Shan's Jedi Master, Kao Cen Darach, is the best depiction of a Niman Master. His style was unorthodox, mixed with blade work and Force powers, signs of the form. Niman, to its highest form, is pretty cool.
The most underrated of all the classic forms in my opinion. A master of form VI would have had to master all previous forms and combined all that knowledge into a form unique to the user, which would make them a dangerously unpredictable opponent to someone unfamiliar with them.
Not really. A master of Form VI simply means they know how to play with techniques of all previous forms in unorthodox, unique ways. It's a scenario of someone beating a swordsman with a screwdriver. Said someone didn't win because he's a master swordsman with a disadvantaged tool, but because he knows enough about swordplay to counter the moves, while using the screwdriver in probably absurd, baffling ways.
I think Form VI might be my favorite lightsaber form since it’s the most interesting
I prefer Niman over the rest too
Cal Kestis from what I can see has a fairly unique form of Niman as well.
Both Cal and Luke, if I’m not mistaken.
Would make sense, as they have to piece together old instructions and create a style of their own. VI is perfect for that, plus it is a hard counter to any foe. Incredibly useful during and after the empire.
Also Jaro Tapal, his master.
His one bladed style looks pretty Form V to me, though. Heavy, with a lot of powerful swings
It’s the low to entry but high skill ceiling form. A master of the form is essentially unbeatable but good luck finding a master of the form haha.
Its my favorite form to boot, wish it got more love in the clone wars but it makes sense though. A form 6 master would be rare at the time as the form is basically used by jedi who don’t like to saber fight in the first place. Which means the drive to master the form simply isn’t there for the majority of practitioners.
The form's inherent weakness lies with it's greatest strength. A form that encourages you to do everything is essentially a form that DOESN'T encourage you to do anything. It's a form that doesn't call for mastery but unique applications of its teachings. Only the most driven & the most creative, qualities required for one to be a battlefield strategist, would truly become an effective jack of all trades with the form.
A jack of all trades and a master of none, taking all previous forms and using them together, a perfectly balanced form and one that follows the mantra: Variety is the spice of life. It doesn't favor one of the other it uses them all.
I've always liked it for that, it's like forming a balanced Pokemon team to cover everything instead of focusing on one type. I mean I say that but I've only played two Pokemon games and for one of them I didn't have a balanced team as 5 of the 6 were weak to Ice, but it's still a good concept and Form to employ. If I wasn't so much of a coward who preferred defense, Form 6 would be where I go instead of Form 3.
I wish people would learn the whole saying. People say Jack of all trades master of none as and think it's bad, but the whole saying is "Jack of all trades, master of none, still better than a master of one."
Yo can clearly see how obi wan uses a defensive style and is dar from being a coward.
Out of all the lightsaber forms, Form VI was the one I knew the least about. Having learned more about it through this video, I can honestly say that I find it incredibly intriguing and awesome.
Last but not least is both variations of Form VII: Juyo/Vaapad. Can't wait.
This treatment of it actually sounds a lot more like my own style of things than it usually comes off, almost a Jeet-kune-do philosophy of things. Especially lending to thinking with both hands, (I think I'd be terrible with a double lightsaber, but *paired* swords, that I've done very well with.) Anyway, dunno where to go with this but I think you're doing a nice treatment of lightaber forms here. :)
You get what you put into it. I'd call it the Scholar's Form, for you have to study constantly to dominate.
Niman sounds like a lightsaber style for me if I was a Jedi in a galaxy far far away. A blank slate to make my own style by blending different disciplines into one cohesive combat style. Plus who doesn't love dual-wielding, I sure do.
Niman is my favorite style, I like the idea of a jack of all trades style.
Always been a fan of niman, being a jack of all trades form with almost no weaknesses and then personally would put more emphasis on form 5 techniques and then you can incorporate force powers and jar-khai. Just makes it the best to me personally.
Lightsaber: Exists
Everyone: So I start slashing
I see the likes Revan and Exar Kun as exceptions rather than the rule. For those who lacked absolute mastery over the form, Niman’s lack of specialization was too much of a liability. You omitted how not a single Form VI practitioner in the Geonosis Arena survived that battle.
Precisely. Form VI is essentially a form that gives you every option available & tells you NOTHING about what to do with them. If you lack the initiative to figure out what to do with the tools you're given, as most Form VI users do, you'd be essentially running into the battlefield knowing everything yet capable of doing nothing.
They were really unsuited for that fight. Many of them most likely preferred to focus on other studies than their bladework, thus giving them essentially a novice understanding of combat. Especially when paired with an individualistic style like Form VI.
This is the most comprehensive overview of Niman I have seen. Good job. Nice touching on how it came about and distinguishing it from Jar Kai, something I have never been clear on.
This form would be great for a rouge sentinel. A Ronin Jedi, if you will. Like we saw in visions
I love how Niman exemplifies the nature of a work ethic. Many Jedi who weren’t interested in saber combat went with it and many got killed because of it. But for someone who put in the effort it was one of the strongest
My interview on “Topic Time” with Harrison Blake Young to promote my 4 books went excellent. Didn’t go into full detail with the books because they’re so extensive, didn’t want to give any of the plots away, and I often don’t feel comfortable talking about them with other people. I dressed casually to make myself more comfortable and not make myself look like a stuffed up, starch collared ass. Glad I won’t have to be working up to 65 hours or more a week like I have been the past 5 years at both Home Depot and as a machinist at Alpha Grainger. Now I can relax, have more free time, still work at the machine shop, and write more often. It’s going to be on UA-cam & Easton Community Access Television sometime next week. Not sure when.
Studying Cal Kestis's moves, he actually uses a lot of Nimann techniques. Granted, it's difficult as the player does have an input on the exact style Cal uses, but it's definitely there. What's more impressive is that Cameron Monaghan came up with the moves all on his own.
Correction. Cal Kestis techniques, NOT Niman. Anything you can find in Niman, you can find in the other forms. It's the APPLICATION of said techniques deviating from the standard that makes Niman, Niman.
Jaina solo used Niman to great effect during the 2nd civil war as she made things look weak but were strengths instead. Jacen used the multi weapon form to wield blasters and other things. Niman changed during the new jedi order as it allowed the use of blasters, metal swords, knives, and who knows as the vong advanced and the Jedi had to adapt weapons for whatever they were fighting. Mara jade also used it similarly. Niman literally had no limit on what it could do just whatever weapon was available you used. It’s flexibility made it a excellent form to fall upon if everything fails. It’s like form 1 but a better choice if all goes bad.
Been waiting for two weeks for this episode
Great episode, thanks for the update.
Form VI is an underrated form. A hard counter to every opponent, it can be adapted on the fly for any use. Offence, defence, blaster deflection, counterattacks, thus throwing opponents off balance and ensuring a swift and satisfying resolution to any fight.
A Form VI and Form II combination could be a force to be reckoned with.
All the elegance and focus of Form II with all the versatility and adaptability of Form VI.
Used in conjunction with either the Force or a blaster, or both, it is bound to be an elegant yet unorthodox fighting style. One perfect for Jedi Sentinels (or similar force users during and after the reign of the empire), highly unorthodox individuals in their own right who face a great variety of foes and dark side practitioners.
That’s how I would do it. No question.
I disagree with the last statement, while Juyo was powerful against Djem So and Soresu, Niman was strong against Juyo because it actively used force and that was the weakness of Juyo. Even though no one specifically said it I would argue that Niman and Makashi were the only forms capable defeating Juyo outright when the duelists were evenly matched. Forms III and V were weak against it (but that is nor absolute guaranty of victory) and Ataru was probably neutral because it was similar in many ways. And Form I was basically weak against all other forms when evenly matched.
Niman - The accelerating progression type.
Most other forms being steady progression where it's fairly linear but niman has a low barrier to entry but turns into a very steep and high learning curve
Had it's reputation and potential ruined by pacifist using it wrong.
The actual quote is “a jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one.”
exar kun was the greatest niman user he mastered in a aggressive version he incorporated techniques from the jedi exile tulak hord and many more ancient sith lords also combine with his modified lightsaber blade and his skills with sith magic archemy he will be deadly for anybody that's why luke Skywalker students defeated their master without much struggling because luke Skywalker never saw that kind of skills
Too many fans skip over Niman in their haste to place their attention on Juyo, thus neglecting a form that should be fairly respected. One might even go so far as to say Niman already had the potential to be what Juyo aspired to, if only the practitioner would dedicate themselves to mastery.
Thank you for spot-lighting this form of swordsmanship, Geetsly's team, and for your service to all who love Star Wars.
That's one of the glaring shortcomings of the form. Unlike other forms, it DOESN'T encourage mastery. While all 5 previous forms have clear-cut criteria for defining mastery, one could only tell if one have mastered Form VI in real, actual fights.
I think Niiman would probably be complemented by basic study of each of the previous 5 forms, which would allow you greater understanding of each individual component that makes up form VI, which would allow you to better understand how to modify it for the situation
The Exar Kun/Ulic Qel Droma saga by Dark Horse is to this day my favorite StarWars story outside of the original trilogy. I wish Disney would've remade it but at the same time they wouldve ruined it.
This is the style I said that I think I would use as I belive I'd either be a sentinal or a consular I would be more force focused nd I always wanted a blade that came apart into 2 single blades soooo I thought was perfect niman and jarki even though I would say I wpuld b force focused premeraly I wouldn't slack on fighting technique nd I would want to fully master it
So often you see jetta using force push, I wanna hear one say "Get over here" And just pull a commanding Military officer for a good distance away to write in front of them.
very good video this form is my second fav of light saber styles next week you will talk about my personal favorite light saber 7
"A simple emission of gas. Sometimes audible, but be wary when not, for it'll make its presence known in a far less pleasant way. From being exposed to its smell one can learn much about its creator's health condition, and perhaps even their recent eating habits."
One point to mention is forms 1,2,3,4 and 5 before looking into Niman, so you can go into the advanced aspects of the styles and switch on the fly.
The one I've been waiting for
1:43
Had no idea Reed Richards was part of the Jedi Order!
That's interesting that Niman is all but Maksim because I took a lightsaber form quiz, twice in a row, and my results were Forms 2 and 6.
It’s rather funny that they say that Niman was the most common lightsaber style when nearly EVERY Jedi in Clone Wars was not a master of it and specialized in all the other 4 forms. We don’t have a SINGLE exemple of one bladed lightsaber duelist who favored Niman on screen except Darth Maul, who used it against Obiwan back at Phantom Manace. Every Jedi back at the clone wars would use either Djem So, Soresu, Ataru and a few Makashi practicioners.
I think many jedi and sith thought the way Dooku did that to learn many forms is a waist and to master 1 is the best and they are partially right yes focusing on 1 form and mastering it can make you a great dualist but so can being great at all of them because all forms except 6 have great strengths and great weaknesses and if you focus only on 1 form you can try to make those weaknesses less notable but they are still there yes a great defense is important but like the old saying goes the best defense is a strong offense instead of waiting for your opponent to come to you go to them and instead of trying to finness your way around an opponent’s defense like in form 2 you can choose to smash through using form 5 and if you use form 4 you can try to confuse your opponent with constant movement and use the force to boost your power strikes so by combining forms you can make your strengths stronger and your weaknesses far less notable
In the end it's easier said then done. You could go to school to be a lawyer only for a medical emergency to occur. Anyone could be both a lawyer and a soctor but how many people will put themselves through so much schooling and how good can you be a both if you're splitting your work days between a firm and a hospital. It takes a DaVinci, a Renaisance type of person, to actually take the time to carefully master multiple forms.
Every philosopher needs to take time to research the Senate.
Sounds like Jeet Kune Do. Flow from one state to another, sticking to no identity or single method.
I suppose one reason why it is hard to gain mastery in form six is that you must find a way to reconcile the the various incompatible elements of the earlier styles it is based on once have the basics down. Try doing style 1 interception, 2`s deflection (tho style 6 often omit Makashi), 3`s tight guard, 4`s dodge and 5`s centerline counters all at once...
Niman seems to be easy to learn but hard to master, which led to it being favoured by diplomats who didn't intend to master their form to begin with. However, when fully mastered it can produce some of the greatest duelists the Jedi order has ever known.
Form VI being a conduit does mirror the Jedi being a conduit for the Force.
The diplomatic style
6 videos into this series, and I just realized how bizarre it is that an order of warrior monks made up of species that evolved on multiple different planets could all be built so similarly that they could teach each other specific fighting forms.
(I get that all of these forms draw upon/are guided by the Force itself to one degree or another, so even a creature built like an octopus could theoretically master all of these forms, but training would SUCK.)
I Think That it's "REALLY HEAVY DUTY, MAN" ! You Dig ?
I believe Obi Wan would’ve been a great form 6 user. He fully mastered Form 3 and technically mastered forms 1&4 with strong knowledge of Shien and Djem So. With Form 1&3 being the basis of his form 6 it could fight multiple blaster wielding opponents or fight a lightsaber dueling specialist
I don't think of Form VI as a blank slate, if anything it's the opposite. Niman is a prearranged package of lightsaber moves and mentalities carried over from the prior forms. It's an academic's form designed to teach as much as possible with as little time spent as possible. Niman practitioners are typically the sort of student who's more than happy to let other masters to the creative legwork when it comes to designing a style, so they can focus on other things. It's certainly malleable, Shii Cho is definitely the blank slate of the bunch. Although most Niman practitioners typically suck in combat, because most aren't trying to become great swordsman, I do agree that the ones who do are among the greatest of all time. I think all depends how you prefer to learn. As for Juyo, I don't think it's more powerful than Niman, but it certainly is more offensive. A form six user would certainly have to be on their toes.
But why is it called the way of the rancor?
Niman can easily be one of the deadliest forms of lightsaber combat. However it is also by far the hardest one to fully master. If you want to use it again a dedicated duelist then you have to be a master, otherwise you won’t last 5 minutes.
Sweet 👍👍
FAV 💯😎
My favorite form, if I was a Jedi them form 6 and 2 would be my go to since form 6 has lacks some elements of form 2, might as well work on what the form is lacking. As for lightsabers I would like to have 2 different lightsabers. One being a lightsaber pike and the second being a curved hilt.
I’m curious but after you discuss Form VII, will that be the end of this series, or is there more out there in the Galaxy far, far away that I don’t know about.
Why some Jedi like Obi-wan seemed to care so much about their own lightsaber like it is an extension of oneself while some other Jedi have no regards of losing their lightsabers like whatsoever? I mean, it's just a piece of metal that can ignite energy blade because of the kyber crystal inside. The other Jedi seemed to be like "My lightsaber was lost or destroyed. Can I get another one?" while those like Obi-wan make a big deal about it.
Well, some of them might have been quite fond of their weapons and took good care of them.
Not unlike the differing philosophies when concerning car ownership. Some see it as a mere tool, some cherish and surgically maintain them.
Niman form is exactly for me!
Better to be a Jack of All,
than a Master of One.
Well and truly my favorite form. I imagine that I would easily fit into the mold of a Jedi Consular or Sith Inquisitor. Though I doubt I would ever become a true master of Niman, I do enjoy a good fight and would rely on this form.
If you're the type who identifies with a consular & 'enjoy a good fight', you'd do better with Form I or Form III. Form VI only truly rewards those who put in the time & effort MORE than those practicing other forms usually would, & people who're good at thinking on their feet. The 'easy to pick up' part is only enough for one to survive a fight in one piece, if one were to be able to get out of the fight in time.
@@FalconWindblader Darth Sidious, Darth Plagueis, Darth Revan, and Inquisitor Jerec were all Niman practitioners. They focused much more on their Force abilities but were unafraid or even enjoyed a lightsaber duel. Those are the models I would refer to.
@@archades115 Darth Plagueis ain't known that much of a fighter, Darth Sidious especially hated using lightsabers & wouldn't use one unless he has to, & Inquisitor Jerec ain't even a Form VI user to begin with. The only noteworthy in your list would be Revan, & if that's your ideal, prepare to work even harder than the guardians in terms of lightsaber training, unless you're extremely gifted. Skilled Form VI users are not uncommon & Form VI masters are not exceedingly rare without good reasons after all.
@@FalconWindblader Darth Sidious and Darth Plagueis not enjoying lightsaber duels is not the point. The point is that they were masters of Niman, in spite of focusing on their Force abilities. And Jerec probably was a Niman practitioner as a Jedi, given his unorthodox use of Makashi and heavy integration of Force powers.
@@archades115 There's nothing in the works that even remotely suggested that both of them were even Niman users, let alone masters. Darth Sidious' loathing for lightsabers was even especially noteworthy given that Niman is especially time-consuming to get effective. He wouldn't be hating lightsabers if he would be so willing to delve that deep into lightsaber combat, & if he did so as a lightsaber hater, his bladework would've been abhorrently sloppy. & By the way, his style is more like a very vicious version of Ataru. That much is evident in its constantly crazy speed & unchecked aggressiveness. Besides, Darth Sidious never bothered peppering fights with Force powers after he drew his blade.
& Finally, a Jedi or a Sith ain't necessarily a Niman user just because they favor uses Force powers regularly in combat. Niman is still primarily a lightsaber combat form, & Force powers are only meant to augment bladework, making it easy for them to handle themselves in a fight. Use of Force powers is NOT forbidden in the other forms, & when fighting gets less intense, Jedi & Sith alike would more often than not, throw in Force powers & examples are aplenty. If a Jedi or Sith just keeps spamming Force powers while hardly ever drawing their blades in a fight, then they're just using Force powers instead of using a lightsaber combat form. It's just like how one can hold a gun & a sword at the same time, yet you can't say you're using swordsmanship while using the gun in your other hand like 70% of the time & more. In this case, you're just using a gun while holding a sword.
Drinking game: take a shot each time Grievous appears in this video
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If I am a Jedi, I would use Niman as my lightsaber combat forms. I'll try to master it at a young age, even if it sounds like a bit of a stretch.
Lets gooooo
I'm 6. I can use both hands and stop you. But finally if I must!
Personally I don't really think Revan should be counted among the Sith, not only did come back to the light in KOTOR1, its revealed later his fall wasn't exactly done willingly. (bad writing it maybe but still) Besides that this was a great breakdown, Niman is personally my favorite form.
yayyyy
Jack of all trades; master of none, but better than master of one.
Why no timestamps?
Could Jackie Chan be considered an un-armed Niman practitioner?
Hey, can you tell the story of Zayne Carrick?
So in Kenobi Episode 5 when Vader is fucking around with Reva with no saber, is that Form 6??
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It's false to claim niman didn't incorporate makashi. Only the jedi of the clone wars era omitted makashi, along with djem so.
I'd rather phase out form 4 ataru which I don't like and switch it for form 2 Makashi then you'd have my favourite style.
But as it stands, Ataru, Niman and Juyo are my least favourite forms.
So instead I would focus on forms 1, 2, 3 and both varients of 5.
That's only possible when you're a battlemaster, the kind of jedi who's all about fighting 24/7. Anyone else could be counted as exemplary, if not exceptional, just by being SKILLED enough with 3 forms.
@@FalconWindblader A battle master knows all 7 I'm talking about learning just 4 or reinventing form 6.
Cin Drallig didn't do much fighting, but he did technically master all the forms.
But there are also other jedi who have been able to study all forms.
And it's not just battle masters it's lightsabre instructors in general who know all 7.
A battlemaster is what I would have aspired to be if I didn't dislike 3 of the 7 forms so much.
I don't think I could fully grapple the philosophy of form 3 and I believe few jedi ever truly did but I think it's a good supplement for form 5 even if it would be a more of a technical mastery without fully embracing the philosophy, I think form 1 would come very natural to me, but forms 2 and 5 would take more desiccation and would be my primary focus of study.
Pretty much all I'd do is train and be a part time archivist and or historian, so I'd have plenty of time to train at the temple, since I'd be a consular.
Guardians can't get away with that sort of thing they have to stick with what's practical in the field probably just mastering one to three forms without being innovative. But consular can spend years training Niman which is composed of 4 of the 7 forms.
It would be a challenge, but others have done more than study 4 forms.
@@benerdick_cumberbiatch You've grossly underestimated just how time-consuming it'd be if you wanna be good in more than 2 forms, & think that you'd have time to be a historian & archivist. Just like how it is with real life martial arts, getting extremely skilled with any ONE of the forms would take considerable amount of time, ESPECIALLY when it comes to Form 6. Wanting to even be good in just 3 would already mean that you won't have time for anything else other than food & sleep, unless you're one of those very long-lived species. If it had been that easy to get good with many forms, specialists wouldn't have been a thing.
@@FalconWindblader Think of a modern historian who is also a librarian working both jobs part time who also practises MMA.
Sure they probably won't be well versed in every subject of history, they'd specialise in one era.
Would they be out there fighting for the UFC winning titles? No.
Would they be particularly good at any one fighting style? Maybe, but probably not to the point they could beat world class boxers at their own sport.
Could they beat other MMA fighters who have more real fight experience but haven't trained as much? Possibly.
MMA is like Niman it's multiple fighting styles mixed together.
Say you wanted to switch out a common component of MMA, Brazilian jujutsu for one which isn't as commonly practised.
Now you have your own style.
Also if you stayed at the Jedi temple you have access to training grounds, the archives and you could study history there.
You don't need to travel from place to place.
So yes I believe it would be quite a task, but it's not impossible.
@@benerdick_cumberbiatch Jacks of all trades & master of none in the very truest sense of the word then. Beyond amateur, but nothing truly professional. It could work in that case, personally speaking, but it'd make me wonder if the Jedi order would actually allow one of its members to spend so much time in what is essentially their own hobbies instead.
After Seven (7), don’t forget Zero (0)…
Another person that is noteworthy in the form is Cal Kestis
can someone explain how general grievous can be an example of form 6 when he is not force sensitive at all? I know his cybernetics were advanced enough to keep up with Jedi precognition, but he still could not use the force that would be required of form 6.
That's the misunderstanding about the form. Form VI places heavy emphasis on outwardly expressive Force use because it's the other tool always available to the Jedi other than their lightsabers. You can find a Niman user who spams telekinetic moves all the time, just as likely as you can find one who doesn't use such powers in combat at all. It's the unique, creative use of whatever tool a Jedi has at their disposal, even a blaster or hell, a metal pipe, that defines the form, NOT expressive use of Force powers.
@@FalconWindblader general grievous is a ability mimic. he just copies styles, and he falls back on fighting dirty when ever he can.
I still not call him a user of form 6, but someone who is trained against form 6 users should do better then others against general grievous.
Also Kit Fisto made general grievous look like a fool in their duel in the clonewars show. Kit Fisto is a master of form 1. If general grievous could have adapted better like y'll say form 6 does He would have overwhelmed Kit Fisto
Sounds like the Jedi who used it with only a single blade did not use it properly
So jack of all trades master of none? Sounds good to me
What book is the images from?
Qui Gon Jinn's style should be Niman instead of Ataru.
Second, Niman should be one of the deadlier styles of Lightsaber combat. The lack of Niman masters during the republic era is a sign of the degredation of the Jedi Order.
So Grievous used a style based on force utilization... Despite being unable to use the force? Seems like a bad plan
Well he had four arms so..
Yo, does Rey even have a lightsaber technique? I mean, whenever I watch her fight, it looks like she just swings her blade aimlessly.
Nah, Rey is clearly an improvisor in that regard.
The form she uses is called Reymarysue
Rey is a really bad baseball player
It seems like an interesting "style" but the lack of structure in the form feels a little problematic from an educational point of view. I have to imagine much of it would be correcting over reaching or being too passive. The lack of force power integration in the previous forms seems like a massive oversight, but that seems to be a common thread in all of star wars with very few individuals treating and exploring the force like the space magic it is.
The lack of Force power use in previous forms is NOT an oversight. Just like physical combat, use of outwardly expressive Force powers require focus. Constantly switching between lightsaber & Force power is akin to trying to watch 2 different shows at the same time, or shoot at 2 different targets with the 2 guns in your hands. It's a feat that's insanely difficult, if not utterly impossible to pull.