I'm a professional tuner and I use to use CyberTuner I now use Verituner. The pitch raise function in both makes life very easy for us tuners. The accuracy of the pitch raise makes a second pass just a few minutes most of the time. I spend app 30-35 minutes doing the pitch raise the then fine tuning takes just a few minutes. I pitch raise every piano no matter how close it is because as you move from section to section things change. Of course there are times when 2 session is just necessary if you really want stability. Anything over 50cents flat I always do 2 different session one to pitch raise and few days later I come back a do 2 more passes after nature takes its course. I've tried to do it in one session and there's just too many variables for it to be stable in one session doing a big pitch raise.
Cyber tuner is a professional tool and well worth the cost, (as is my SAT). If you have a good technician whom you hire, then let him work his magic! He is worth his fee.
A full 80% of the skill of fine tuning pianos is learning how to use the the tuning hammer/lever correctly. And each set of tuning pins is different for every piano. The remaining 20% is hearing the necessary harmonics (partials)....aural tuners. Soo. The new tuning technology available today, whilst a vast improvement on previous attempts, still only deals with what is/was the hearing element. It does not help with the 80%! I think your video downplayed the crucial need to practice tuning on HUNDREDS of pianos (a least) before one can accurately tune any given piano. Maybe your video should have been titled: "No, but here's the good news". Not: "Yes, but I'll mention the 80% at the end of the video" (Concert tuner).
Trained ear-tuner (20 years) and my Sanderson Acu-tuner is used for every tuning with my ear as a back up. I like how you mentioned the technology, and how it has improved, and then mentioned the technique of manipulating the pins. This truly is the key for stability. I admire pianists who can perform solid tunings on their own, but let me stop by sometime and show you what you're missing. 😉 Great video sir!
Yes, a stable tuning is hard to achieve. I tune my upright piano by myself and each time I tune it, I become better at hearing the slightest nuances and also differentiating from some weird tones on some strings which confused me very much at the beginning. The piano I have is +100 Years old and it sounds great when in tune. The last tunings I did set the temperament by ear after tuning the root A to 432hz. Old pianos are not made for 440hz tuning.
I use Veri-Tuner off my phone and every single piano tuning I’ve done, sounds fantastic, the technology is quite remarkable. Much more that I :P thanks oh also for mentioning about properly setting the strings speaking length because that is crucial ^___^ love the vids!
Some good points Robert. I would just add that it's not humans hearing the treble flat that makes it sound flat. It's because all the higher partials are not lining up enough when you just double the frequency. When human tuners tune octaves to sound good, they are stretching naturally. Also, equalizing tensions across the upper termination point is not sufficient for concert tunings. We must make the Non-Speaking Length tighter than the Speaking Length to stop the string from slipping on those heavy power blows that professional pianists use. Also, there are not thousands of tuners inputs into the software like there would be in a medical A.I. program. Piano tuning software is not A.I. What it does is listens to how out of tune each string is, and then tries to approximate how to tune the piano so it is, not perfect but, the least out of tune. One important point you missed was that these software programs always need to be tweaked if we are looking for the best tuning possible. Also, another important phenomenon that must be addressed is the "Fallacy of How Great I am". What I mean is that, when I read people like in this thread saying things like, "Wow, I didn't know how easy this was. Now I tune my own piano and it sounds great", there has to be some insight into what's going on here. Really? You are an amazing tuner after using a phone for one hour? Incredible! Isn't it more probable that you just can't hear what a good tuning actually is, and that's what other people have been spending their life pursuing? Or is it possible that you have just found the secret and all other professional tuners should listen to you? Insight.
My daughter plays piano, and when I showed her this video she immediately said no way. Then we watched together and she was amazed this will work. I actually touched up he piano with the software you mention. Now, she is asking me to touch up the piano she plays at church. Thank you for another great video.
In 1996 "The Great Chicago Tune-off". beat speed counting and comparing was proven unnecessary. Jim Coleman beat out Virgil Smith 55% to 45% using the Cybertuner program on a laptop. There have been several upgrades to the app the last 24 years.
He’s referring to something called Inharmonicity. Each note is slightly de-tuned from the mathematical ideal. The detuning is plotted as an “Inharmonicity curve”. For example, there are curves for various Steinway, Yamaha and other pianos. You select and the tuner is intelligent enough to compensate.
THANK YOU !! So many people take the high road about this subject when all we poor people want is something CLOSER to a real tune on our free or cheap pianos that aren't worth having a pro come in !
Good video. I am a piano technician by profession. I use Cybertuner to tune pianos and am repeatedly impressed by the accuracy. While the software will show you when you have set the pitch in the right place, you still must know proper technique for setting the pin so the tuning is stable. Also knowing how to tune a solid unison (two or three strings per note) is critical. Equally important to know is what a proper tuning sounds like (such as beat speeds of intervals) so that when you are finished you are able to check the tuning by ear and make any fine adjustments that may be needed at the end. Some people argue that strictly aural tuning is still best. I like to use writing an essay as an example. You need to master your language in order to write a great essay. You can write the essay by hand or on a computer. In both cases you will probably need to do some proofreading at the end. If you have mastered your language, both methods will result in the same great essay.
@@slapahoe69 Yeah i'm a software developer so I can speak for us when I say they're price gouging the living crap out of piano technicians because of the field they're in.
People are always looking for the cheap way out but when It comes to quality there are no shortcuts or cheap way out. It takes years of experience before anyone can tune a piano right. It's not just pitch matching or hearing intervals. It's the beat count and setting the pins along with a lot of patience. Real tuners are worth every penny they make. Just like any other service you must shop around and listen to previous customers and if they are happy with their tuners. Some of the older and more experience tuners may have the patience to tune your neglected piano. Some pianos today aren't worth the time for any tuner to work on. Pianos of the early 20th century are ones of the best to restore. I could name a few names to stay away from.
@@ronb6182 It's a fallacy that you must set the pin for the string to be stable. A stable string doesn't slip. Period. If a pin is not set, it will move. But a pin can move, and the string still be stable. We need to know more than just these little trinkets of knowledge in order to not just have stable tunings, but have them consistently, and be able to tune quickly and without hard blows that damage hearing.
The difference in the quality and stability in tuning even among experienced, professional tuners is staggering. When you find a good tuner, stay with him! because he is well worth his fee. Piano tuning is not really a DIY project, with rare exceptions. When you spend what it takes to get a great piano, be prepared to pay for good tuning and maintenance; you'll be glad you did. I did not know about these tuning programs; but at their price, would much rather hire a good tuner instead. Thank you, Mr Estrin, for all your wonderful, informative videos. I enjoy them all, learn much from your expertise, and enjoy your playing.
The human ear is trained to prioritize human speech (communication) and is designed (evolved) as such. We hear high notes (frequencies) flat and lower notes sharp because our brains are constantly trying to bring them all to the middle for aural comprehension! Master piano tuners must compensate for this as well.
You can tune a piano accurately with a Strobe Tuner, but you also have to use your ear. I have a Conn Strobotuner and tuned many pianos with it in the 80's & 90's. It is a great tool if you can hear how much to stretch the octaves.
I would seriously caution any owner of a quality instrument against manipulating the pins; minute leverage causes a huge pitch change; incorrect technique bends the pin - at best; at worst, repeated improper manipulation will loosen the pin - disatrous! Find a top notch tuner (if you can!), stay with him/her.
I have been rebuilding, tuning, and selling fine quality pianos for 42 years. So I have a little credibility. Many professional pianists have told me thus . "In all the years I have been playing, no tuning has lasted like yours". For those with an open mind, listen carefully. A piano can not be successfully tuned by ear. Simply by altering the 60,000 pounds of string tension when tuning 235 strings, the strings just tuned are already out of tune! Only the best computerized tuning programs or APPS account for this stretching and provides professional results. Unfortunately, I have hired and fired a dozen aural tuners. Their tunings were not acceptable for me nor my customers. That's my 2 cents worth.
Hello LivingPiano , i found an old piano in a house , and it is so terribly out of tune , Hope i can ask you a question , I am new and i know nothing ,and would like to start to learn and tune this piano , Just a quick question , hope it doesn't sound like a dumb question , on understanding the keyboard , if far left key starts with C to G and then A, and 7 keys after A begins again , is this A1 ? and then 7 keys after is this A2 and so forth ?
There is NOThing compared to a blind tuner. My spouse's ear has been tested. He has heard customers who threw out other tuners who used the electronics that you speak of. He sticks to a piano with a need of a pitch raise for 8 hours if necessary. He works till he is contented. He doesnt make two appointments. He has had 50 years of experience. It will be hard for him to retire. He loves the tone quality of a Yamaha. He lives the art and passion.I have heard him tune for 38 years. I see no failure of his hearing.
S t r e t c h . A bit more than normal procedure makes modern harmonies sound better it accommodates dissonance and chromatically altered harmonies better.
I have used the “Pano tuner” successfully on my mom’s piano, it will play a reference pitch a-440 for example that can be used at any octave to accurately tune to pitch, aside from the main screen visual references.
Cool explanation and all, but I was really hoping to listen to the difference between a phone tuned (aka robotic tuned) piano vs your version of a professionally tuned piano. Without that real-time comparison in the video, all of this is just all talk with nothing to back it up.
I tune synthesizers at higher frequencies for the Air Force. Beyond our hearing. But when I use a scope I can get it dead on. I wonder if I could tune a piano.
Thanks so much for the video! For close on 30yrs I was spoilt by having a professonally trained fabulous piano tuner. When he tuned my Yamaha it sang! 8 years ago I relocated to a different part of the country. I'm over near the coast in the UK and the population density is somewhat smaller - as is the number of available piano tuners. I've tried the only 2 who are within a reasonable comute to me and the piano just doesn't sound good - ok but not good and it certainly doesn't sing. After watching the video I downloaded panotune. 5 hours later and my piano sounds like it should. To be fair I have some knowledge of the inside of a piano as spent the first year of my working life working for a tuner but I never learnt how to create an even temperament. I'm not going to say dive in to an expensive piano with a kit from Amazon and the app if you've no other knowledge but if, like me, you've got some knowledge and just need a bit of help with the temperament then go for it! I know there are lots of piano tuners who will disagree and I totally get that but if you are truly as good as you should be then you're worth every penny however if you knock out a piano in 45 mins that wobbles more than a weeble then you only have yourself to blame for people going DIY!
I tuned my Baby with a Phone using Tunelab, turned out good I think. I am used to the sound of a digital piano, hence, to my ears, all acoustic pianos sound a little off to me. I'll probably will invite a technician to learn what I am missing here.
My father was a piano tuner/rebuilder back in the 1960's - 1990s and was around for the beginning of strobe tuners. He hated them with a passion and called anyone who used them "tin ears". Because of this, I still am suspicious of electronic tuners and will be no matter how advances the technology gets.
I just want to listen a decent equal temperement made with a mobile (or whatever) tuner. (Analogue or digital) technology will never surpass a master piano technician, the same way there won’t be a better piano action, technologically speaking. This video is biased.
An amazing science. When you listen to the different temperaments you start to realize that it brings out different characteristics of the piano. For example, the Young Temperament sounds more natural to my ear than the Equal temperament.
many tuner apps for free;Today I heard the Schubert sonata played in the Berlin hall with ear crushing out of tune notes;hall too hot;hall too cold;Steinway or bosendorfer too hot ;or too cold
There is a new iOS app named Pianoscope which creates nice tunings and is very usable. They have a "cheap" version for hobbyists and a pro edition for professional tuners.
This completely ignores the physical process of stabilizing the tuning pin (tuning stability) and the accurate tuning of unisons (done by ear). It's all relative - if the piano is bad enough, anything may help, but the piano will not be well "tuned". Pianos need much more than just tuning when the technician sees it, so $1,000 for an App or anything similar (even free) also ignores so much that also determines the piano's sound and performance - voicing, regulation, alignment, lubes, etc., done when serviced. Good technicians don't just "tune". And if you call one, get one that is Certified, PTG.
Its always better to have a professional tuner. but.. Many times a novice with the right tools and natural talent, can make things better especially when you have an older piano with loose pins and unison's slip and need some touch-up
You said what I've heard many other piano techs say. "Only somebody who has tuned hundreds of piano is going to be able..." Perhaps that used to be true, back when it was all about counting beats and doing it by ear. With the help of modern tuning apps, that's most definitely not true today.
Peterson strobo software works well. You have to buy the temperament upgrade witch lets you select stretched grand piano sweeteners. Thank you for your videos
I really like the Pano Tuner app for the instruments I play. I teach guitar and bass and I make all of my students download it because aside from buying a real tuner it's the most consistent tuner available
I would maybe come in the category of people who can't tune my own piano well. But it's more than getting the strings tuned. A piano also need service regularly.
I'm a fan of this app too. I'm an Engineer by trade, not a tuner, but have used the app many times on both my pianos in combination with my ears! It was particularly useful after I changed the bass strings on my Yamaha as they needed pulling up regularly to start with...so the app paid for itself very quickly!
Hmmmmmm... ▼ Licensing (from their website): Initially TuneLab Piano Tuner runs in free-trial mode. In this mode it has all the functions and abilities as the paid mode. But it will display a message about free-trial mode for TWO WHOLE MINUTES every 14 notes. This is the only restriction in free-trial mode. In order to eliminate these messages and pauses you can license your Android device for ► $300 USD ◄
A bunch of piano technicians at the local piano dealership used Verituner. It is also very expensive. Personally, I like the old-fashioned strobe tuner with a stretch tuning built-in for various-sized pianos. For that I bought the Peterson 490 ST. It was also very expensive lol.
modern tech is still *NOT* accurate enough to match the human ear, its extremely close but there are still inconsistencies a human ear can hear that a machine doesn't account for. As for apps, CyberTuner and TuneLab are good but still just a little out, they still don't account for hammer and string inconsistencies that cause second hand inharmonicity
Well your first Statement simply is not true. Modern tech IS accurate in measuring the frequency of a note. Because its objective, its more consistent than human hearing.
I know what you meant. There are people believing that A=432 being more "perfect" than the current A=440. Usually these software allow you set the default frequency of A ("setting"). You can set A=432. Linostrobe ranges from 414 to 464, TunerTime, freeware, unlimted frequency.
I have a korg tuner and have it set for A4 432 hz and use it to tune my yamaha p60 keyboard, now the A4 does not hurt my ears when I play it at any volume level. It's amazing that 8 hz could make that much of a difference. I also tried 444 hz but did not like it. 432 will be a life saver to the piano's strings and soundboard.
I'm retired from another profession, but I tune for friends. In other words part time. I may at some time go after advertising, etc., at a later date. That said, I had a piano tuning job today. Surprisingly, this 100+ year old piano was up to pitch. I used a Sanderson Accu Tuner IV. It was wonderful as usual. Measured the FAC, and the complete tuning was laid out. Takes me longer as I am not that experienced (I realize my limitations) but my customer was satisfied. I can tune by ear, but the Sanderson produces a much sweeter tuning, especially dealing with the inharmonicity of older and smaller pianos. I wouldn't recommend purchasing the Sanderson, though, unless you are a professional, as it is a sizable investment. I do use phone apps as a guide when doing a pitch raise.
Me watching this with my 5 dollar headphones realizing the app is 999.99
Wtf the CyberTuner App is 1100 Euros, at that price it's better to call a professional tuner for 10 years (considering it's 100 Euros everytime).
I'm a professional tuner and I use to use CyberTuner I now use Verituner. The pitch raise function in both makes life very easy for us tuners. The accuracy of the pitch raise makes a second pass just a few minutes most of the time. I spend app 30-35 minutes doing the pitch raise the then fine tuning takes just a few minutes. I pitch raise every piano no matter how close it is because as you move from section to section things change. Of course there are times when 2 session is just necessary if you really want stability. Anything over 50cents flat I always do 2 different session one to pitch raise and few days later I come back a do 2 more passes after nature takes its course. I've tried to do it in one session and there's just too many variables for it to be stable in one session doing a big pitch raise.
@Tom So you need info on how to "set" the pins so they stay where you want them to.
A very good perspective
Cyber tuner is a professional tool and well worth the cost, (as is my SAT). If you have a good technician whom you hire, then let him work his magic! He is worth his fee.
A full 80% of the skill of fine tuning pianos is learning how to use the the tuning hammer/lever correctly. And each set of tuning pins is different for every piano. The remaining 20% is hearing the necessary harmonics (partials)....aural tuners.
Soo. The new tuning technology available today, whilst a vast improvement on previous attempts, still only deals with what is/was the hearing element. It does not help with the 80%!
I think your video downplayed the crucial need to practice tuning on HUNDREDS of pianos (a least) before one can accurately tune any given piano.
Maybe your video should have been titled: "No, but here's the good news". Not: "Yes, but I'll mention the 80% at the end of the video" (Concert tuner).
Trained ear-tuner (20 years) and my Sanderson Acu-tuner is used for every tuning with my ear as a back up. I like how you mentioned the technology, and how it has improved, and then mentioned the technique of manipulating the pins. This truly is the key for stability. I admire pianists who can perform solid tunings on their own, but let me stop by sometime and show you what you're missing. 😉
Great video sir!
Yes, a stable tuning is hard to achieve. I tune my upright piano by myself and each time I tune it, I become better at hearing the slightest nuances and also differentiating from some weird tones on some strings which confused me very much at the beginning. The piano I have is +100 Years old and it sounds great when in tune. The last tunings I did set the temperament by ear after tuning the root A to 432hz. Old pianos are not made for 440hz tuning.
Anyone wondering, the app is 1,000 $
Or "Entropy Piano Tuner" for free :)
I use Veri-Tuner off my phone and every single piano tuning I’ve done, sounds fantastic, the technology is quite remarkable. Much more that I :P thanks oh also for mentioning about properly setting the strings speaking length because that is crucial ^___^ love the vids!
Some good points Robert. I would just add that it's not humans hearing the treble flat that makes it sound flat. It's because all the higher partials are not lining up enough when you just double the frequency.
When human tuners tune octaves to sound good, they are stretching naturally.
Also, equalizing tensions across the upper termination point is not sufficient for concert tunings. We must make the Non-Speaking Length tighter than the Speaking Length to stop the string from slipping on those heavy power blows that professional pianists use.
Also, there are not thousands of tuners inputs into the software like there would be in a medical A.I. program. Piano tuning software is not A.I. What it does is listens to how out of tune each string is, and then tries to approximate how to tune the piano so it is, not perfect but, the least out of tune.
One important point you missed was that these software programs always need to be tweaked if we are looking for the best tuning possible.
Also, another important phenomenon that must be addressed is the "Fallacy of How Great I am". What I mean is that, when I read people like in this thread saying things like, "Wow, I didn't know how easy this was. Now I tune my own piano and it sounds great", there has to be some insight into what's going on here. Really? You are an amazing tuner after using a phone for one hour? Incredible! Isn't it more probable that you just can't hear what a good tuning actually is, and that's what other people have been spending their life pursuing? Or is it possible that you have just found the secret and all other professional tuners should listen to you? Insight.
Very good reply
My daughter plays piano, and when I showed her this video she immediately said no way. Then we watched together and she was amazed this will work. I actually touched up he piano with the software you mention. Now, she is asking me to touch up the piano she plays at church. Thank you for another great video.
In 1996 "The Great Chicago Tune-off". beat speed counting and comparing was proven unnecessary. Jim Coleman beat out Virgil Smith 55% to 45% using the Cybertuner program on a laptop. There have been several upgrades to the app the last 24 years.
He’s referring to something called Inharmonicity. Each note is slightly de-tuned from the mathematical ideal. The detuning is plotted as an “Inharmonicity curve”. For example, there are curves for various Steinway, Yamaha and other pianos. You select and the tuner is intelligent enough to compensate.
i didnt know that senior luke skywalker became a piano tuner...
THANK YOU !! So many people take the high road about this subject when all we poor people want is something CLOSER to a real tune on our free or cheap pianos that aren't worth having a pro come in !
Ive been using Entropy piano tuner in my piano and I think it works good. Does any one has compare Entropy vs Ciber tuner ot tuner Lab?
Good video. I am a piano technician by profession. I use Cybertuner to tune pianos and am repeatedly impressed by the accuracy. While the software will show you when you have set the pitch in the right place, you still must know proper technique for setting the pin so the tuning is stable. Also knowing how to tune a solid unison (two or three strings per note) is critical. Equally important to know is what a proper tuning sounds like (such as beat speeds of intervals) so that when you are finished you are able to check the tuning by ear and make any fine adjustments that may be needed at the end.
Some people argue that strictly aural tuning is still best. I like to use writing an essay as an example. You need to master your language in order to write a great essay. You can write the essay by hand or on a computer. In both cases you will probably need to do some proofreading at the end. If you have mastered your language, both methods will result in the same great essay.
Jordan Porter I bet it ain’t no 1000 dollars great cause that’s what they charge for it
@@slapahoe69 Yeah i'm a software developer so I can speak for us when I say they're price gouging the living crap out of piano technicians because of the field they're in.
People are always looking for the cheap way out but when It comes to quality there are no shortcuts or cheap way out. It takes years of experience before anyone can tune a piano right. It's not just pitch matching or hearing intervals. It's the beat count and setting the pins along with a lot of patience. Real tuners are worth every penny they make. Just like any other service you must shop around and listen to previous customers and if they are happy with their tuners. Some of the older and more experience tuners may have the patience to tune your neglected piano. Some pianos today aren't worth the time for any tuner to work on. Pianos of the early 20th century are ones of the best to restore. I could name a few names to stay away from.
@@ronb6182 It's a fallacy that you must set the pin for the string to be stable. A stable string doesn't slip. Period. If a pin is not set, it will move. But a pin can move, and the string still be stable. We need to know more than just these little trinkets of knowledge in order to not just have stable tunings, but have them consistently, and be able to tune quickly and without hard blows that damage hearing.
The difference in the quality and stability in tuning even among experienced, professional tuners is staggering. When you find a good tuner, stay with him! because he is well worth his fee. Piano tuning is not really a DIY project, with rare exceptions. When you spend what it takes to get a great piano, be prepared to pay for good tuning and maintenance; you'll be glad you did. I did not know about these tuning programs; but at their price, would much rather hire a good tuner instead. Thank you, Mr Estrin, for all your wonderful, informative videos. I enjoy them all, learn much from your expertise, and enjoy your playing.
The human ear is trained to prioritize human speech (communication) and is designed (evolved) as such. We hear high notes (frequencies) flat and lower notes sharp because our brains are constantly trying to bring them all to the middle for aural comprehension! Master piano tuners must compensate for this as well.
You can tune a piano accurately with a Strobe Tuner, but you also have to use your ear. I have a Conn Strobotuner and tuned many pianos with it in the 80's & 90's. It is a great tool if you can hear how much to stretch the octaves.
As always, thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge, Mr. Estrin!!!!!
I would seriously caution any owner of a quality instrument against manipulating the pins; minute leverage causes a huge pitch change; incorrect technique bends the pin - at best; at worst, repeated improper manipulation will loosen the pin - disatrous! Find a top notch tuner (if you can!), stay with him/her.
What tuning tools should I buy for my Kimball baby grand piano, and where can I order them?
I have been rebuilding, tuning, and selling fine quality pianos for 42 years. So I have a little credibility. Many professional pianists have told me thus . "In all the years I have been playing, no tuning has lasted like yours".
For those with an open mind, listen carefully. A piano can not be successfully tuned by ear.
Simply by altering the 60,000 pounds of string tension when tuning 235 strings, the strings just tuned are already out of tune! Only the best computerized tuning programs or APPS account for this stretching and provides professional results. Unfortunately, I have hired and fired a dozen aural tuners. Their tunings were not acceptable for me nor my customers.
That's my 2 cents worth.
Depending on the inner climate of the home, some of my tunings have lasted for as long as two years. ;D
I just got a piano tuner and it said that my digital piano is out of tune...
Casio Ap460 btw lmao
Hello LivingPiano , i found an old piano in a house , and it is so terribly out of tune , Hope i can ask you a question , I am new and i know nothing ,and would like to start to learn and tune this piano , Just a quick question , hope it doesn't sound like a dumb question , on understanding the keyboard , if far left key starts with C to G and then A, and 7 keys after A begins again , is this A1 ? and then 7 keys after is this A2 and so forth ?
There is NOThing compared to a blind tuner. My spouse's ear has been tested. He has heard customers who threw out other tuners who used the electronics that you speak of. He sticks to a piano with a need of a pitch raise for 8 hours if necessary. He works till he is contented. He doesnt make two appointments. He has had 50 years of experience. It will be hard for him to retire. He loves the tone quality of a Yamaha. He lives the art and passion.I have heard him tune for 38 years. I see no failure of his hearing.
Well, that was a very interesting and personal response
Woah, I crapped my pants when I saw the price of the tuning programs. I still wouldn’t trust myself tuning my own piano even if I had the tools.
S t r e t c h . A bit more than normal procedure makes modern harmonies sound better it accommodates dissonance and chromatically altered harmonies better.
I have somehow managed to tune F2 and F2 sharp to the same pitch and not quite sure how to correct it from there
you didn't tuned your piano with a phone, that's part is missing
This video answered quite a few questions for the layman (i.e. me). Thanks
Entropy Piano Tuner app does make step further. It will find the piano formula where the harmonics of strings will match... Try it out!
every time i tried it the app would crash. Cyber Tuner is still my favorite.
I have used the “Pano tuner” successfully on my mom’s piano, it will play a reference pitch a-440 for example that can be used at any octave to accurately tune to pitch, aside from the main screen visual references.
Cool explanation and all, but I was really hoping to listen to the difference between a phone tuned (aka robotic tuned) piano vs your version of a professionally tuned piano. Without that real-time comparison in the video, all of this is just all talk with nothing to back it up.
Use pianometer app
Thanks Robert. I always enjoy your videos. I've attempted to tune my piano a few times and am pretty much challenged by it.
Yes I have for many years
I tune synthesizers at higher frequencies for the Air Force. Beyond our hearing. But when I use a scope I can get it dead on. I wonder if I could tune a piano.
I always trust your videos Robert!
I use the Tuner T1 app to tune my pianos. It works great and it’s FREE!
Thanks so much for the video! For close on 30yrs I was spoilt by having a professonally trained fabulous piano tuner. When he tuned my Yamaha it sang!
8 years ago I relocated to a different part of the country. I'm over near the coast in the UK and the population density is somewhat smaller - as is the number of available piano tuners. I've tried the only 2 who are within a reasonable comute to me and the piano just doesn't sound good - ok but not good and it certainly doesn't sing. After watching the video I downloaded panotune. 5 hours later and my piano sounds like it should. To be fair I have some knowledge of the inside of a piano as spent the first year of my working life working for a tuner but I never learnt how to create an even temperament. I'm not going to say dive in to an expensive piano with a kit from Amazon and the app if you've no other knowledge but if, like me, you've got some knowledge and just need a bit of help with the temperament then go for it! I know there are lots of piano tuners who will disagree and I totally get that but if you are truly as good as you should be then you're worth every penny however if you knock out a piano in 45 mins that wobbles more than a weeble then you only have yourself to blame for people going DIY!
I tuned my Baby with a Phone using Tunelab, turned out good I think. I am used to the sound of a digital piano, hence, to my ears, all acoustic pianos sound a little off to me. I'll probably will invite a technician to learn what I am missing here.
My father was a piano tuner/rebuilder back in the 1960's - 1990s and was around for the beginning of strobe tuners. He hated them with a passion and called anyone who used them "tin ears". Because of this, I still am suspicious of electronic tuners and will be no matter how advances the technology gets.
I just want to listen a decent equal temperement made with a mobile (or whatever) tuner. (Analogue or digital) technology will never surpass a master piano technician, the same way there won’t be a better piano action, technologically speaking. This video is biased.
I just had Regi Hedahl tune my piano with Verituner. It's the best tuning that I have had done on this Baldwin Model L!!!
An amazing science. When you listen to the different temperaments you start to realize that it brings out different characteristics of the piano. For example, the Young Temperament sounds more natural to my ear than the Equal temperament.
Is this a sponsored video? One of the app is $1400…. ?????
many tuner apps for free;Today I heard the Schubert sonata played in the Berlin hall with ear crushing out of tune notes;hall too hot;hall too cold;Steinway or bosendorfer too hot ;or too cold
There is a new iOS app named Pianoscope which creates nice tunings and is very usable. They have a "cheap" version for hobbyists and a pro edition for professional tuners.
This completely ignores the physical process of stabilizing the tuning pin (tuning stability) and the accurate tuning of unisons (done by ear). It's all relative - if the piano is bad enough, anything may help, but the piano will not be well "tuned". Pianos need much more than just tuning when the technician sees it, so $1,000 for an App or anything similar (even free) also ignores so much that also determines the piano's sound and performance - voicing, regulation, alignment, lubes, etc., done when serviced. Good technicians don't just "tune". And if you call one, get one that is Certified, PTG.
Its always better to have a professional tuner. but.. Many times a novice with the right tools and natural talent, can make things better especially when you have an older piano with loose pins and unison's slip and need some touch-up
You said what I've heard many other piano techs say. "Only somebody who has tuned hundreds of piano is going to be able..." Perhaps that used to be true, back when it was all about counting beats and doing it by ear. With the help of modern tuning apps, that's most definitely not true today.
Answered within 25 sec thank you. Do go on
I was expecting him to say "and the simple answer to this......
Will be revealed after these messages."
Nothing beats the ear and technique of an experienced tuner that also plays piano. They're worth every penny.
Tune Lab is free, or $300. Why are people claiming it's $1000?
Soundcorset on Google play is free and easy to use
Wasted 7mins🤦🏻♀️
There is a freeware tuner called “Entropy”
Peterson strobo software works well. You have to buy the temperament upgrade witch
lets you select stretched grand piano sweeteners. Thank you for your videos
Entropy Piano Tuner vs CyberTuner/TuneLab?
I really like the Pano Tuner app for the instruments I play. I teach guitar and bass and I make all of my students download it because aside from buying a real tuner it's the most consistent tuner available
Yamaha's piano was tuned by PDA/Smartphone apps
I would maybe come in the category of people who can't tune my own piano well. But it's more than getting the strings tuned. A piano also need service regularly.
A strobe tuner is very accurate but you have to have a very good ear to go along with it.
Just got this done today! My technician uses CyberTuner on his iPhone. Works great!
If only the apps wasn’t so expensive..
Answer: NO NO NO I m a piano tuner
No. You need tools to tune a piano.
That is why my Piano Tuner said he tunes the strings slightly sharper. Thanks
Its very rare to hear any piano in a state of pleasing tune
Yes you can I did it and I’m pleased with the results.
Pano tuner is great. Also use it to sing pitch perfect. It will tell you if you are a wee-bit sharp or flat.
Surprised by the quality of these videos.
why?
Yo
Am I first?
I've been using tunelab on my laptop computer since 2009 when my daughter began to learn the piano. It's really a great software!
I'm a fan of this app too. I'm an Engineer by trade, not a tuner, but have used the app many times on both my pianos in combination with my ears! It was particularly useful after I changed the bass strings on my Yamaha as they needed pulling up regularly to start with...so the app paid for itself very quickly!
Hmmmmmm...
▼
Licensing (from their website): Initially TuneLab Piano Tuner runs in free-trial mode. In this mode it has all the functions and abilities as the paid mode.
But it will display a message about free-trial mode for TWO WHOLE MINUTES every 14 notes.
This is the only restriction in free-trial mode. In order to eliminate these messages and pauses you can license your Android device for ► $300 USD ◄
I am a pianotuner, i use “Verituner”. Also one of the top tuning app’s but it only works on a iPhone
A bunch of piano technicians at the local piano dealership used Verituner. It is also very expensive. Personally, I like the old-fashioned strobe tuner with a stretch tuning built-in for various-sized pianos. For that I bought the Peterson 490 ST. It was also very expensive lol.
modern tech is still *NOT* accurate enough to match the human ear, its extremely close but there are still inconsistencies a human ear can hear that a machine doesn't account for.
As for apps, CyberTuner and TuneLab are good but still just a little out, they still don't account for hammer and string inconsistencies that cause second hand inharmonicity
Well your first Statement simply is not true. Modern tech IS accurate in measuring the frequency of a note. Because its objective, its more consistent than human hearing.
@@MCMeru The one thing I find Cyber Tuner lacks is the ability to listen and comprehend false beats. That's where the ear has to take over.
The real question is why isn’t A 432hz
MyGdoggy Because it makes horrid maths
It is, to those who have some enlightenment. The question is: will my piano tuner be will to tune to 432?
440hz is A , in orchestra 442 hz for A
I know what you meant. There are people believing that A=432 being more "perfect" than the current A=440. Usually these software allow you set the default frequency of A ("setting"). You can set A=432. Linostrobe ranges from 414 to 464, TunerTime, freeware, unlimted frequency.
I have a korg tuner and have it set for A4 432 hz and use it to tune my yamaha p60 keyboard, now the A4 does not hurt my ears when I play it at any volume level. It's amazing that 8 hz could make that much of a difference. I also tried 444 hz but did not like it. 432 will be a life saver to the piano's strings and soundboard.
I'm retired from another profession, but I tune for friends. In other words part time. I may at some time go after advertising, etc., at a later date. That said, I had a piano tuning job today. Surprisingly, this 100+ year old piano was up to pitch. I used a Sanderson Accu Tuner IV. It was wonderful as usual. Measured the FAC, and the complete tuning was laid out. Takes me longer as I am not that experienced (I realize my limitations) but my customer was satisfied. I can tune by ear, but the Sanderson produces a much sweeter tuning, especially dealing with the inharmonicity of older and smaller pianos. I wouldn't recommend purchasing the Sanderson, though, unless you are a professional, as it is a sizable investment. I do use phone apps as a guide when doing a pitch raise.
The question is, can you tune your piano without a piano? :)
Your should take down your old video where you recommend only hiring a pro.
Would a high quality microphone have a difference