If there is one thing I learned in 40 years as a classical radio host, it's that you can't please everyone. I used to get letters and phone calls the gist of which was "HOW can you waste your airtime on (fill in name of composer/performance/work)?" It brought to mind Andre Previn's wonderful memoir "No Minor Chords", where he mentions his father, a learned and cultured gentleman who never really found his niche in America. Andre would introduce him to a new piece of music, and Dad would invariably say, "Well, it's all right, but it isn't the Eroica". My job, as I saw it, was to offer a wide variety of music, in the hope that people would occasionally hear stuff they weren't familiar with and think to themselves, "Where has this been all my life?" Sure, you're going to play the Eroica, and the other widely acknowledged masterpieces (plus the warhorses that people love so much) more often than you're going to play, say, the symphonies of Neils Gade. The point was to balance the unfamiliar with bonbons like the Strauss waltzes.
When I read some of the comments you get, I notice that many folks oftentimes haven't really listened attentively to what you're saying. Social media, it seems to me, highlights a more general problem, whether in face-to-face conversations or otherwise: we don't really listen to each other. Sure, we "hear" each other, but don't truly listen. It's like listening to music. Do you merely "hear" the music, or do your really, mindfully listen? More commonly, we filter whatever we hear through self-projection. I've sure noticed this with my students. When I read responses to things I've discussed, I sometimes don't recognize what comes back to me. It feels like talking to a brick wall. Nevertheless, I love teaching, and have accepted the fact that while many will never really get the points I'm offering, there are plenty of others who do. We really appreciate what you're trying to do, and are having a great, fun time watching your videos. Thanks!
I don't always agree with what you say - as I am sure is the way of it for ALL of us on here. But I damned will support to the end your right to say it - you are far, far more qualified than [dare I say it] 99% of us on here... I also feel strongly that people who do disagree in comments on here should do so in a way that is becoming of someone who is part of this community.
I have been a Classical Music lover since the late 1950s, learned a lot about music being in band from 1958. I have enjoyed your videos for several years now and appreciate you knowledge. I don't remember which composers you mentioned in that video, but I do remember that video. The fact that you even remember those composers is an aknowledgement of their existence and even a respect you have for them. I love your criticisms of musicians and encourage you to continue. Many thanks for your videos.
I’m glad you made this video and pinpointed it’s just the nature of this medium. I’ll never understand people who highjack a comment in order to begin a completely different conversation, or choose a single phrase to focus on, and ignore the entire point you made. But I’ll always ignore them.
Point taken. This is why we can’t have nice things. However, you certainly did seemingly take joy (hilariously) in demeaning the works of those 3 composers. 😂
Being a professional musician I have always enjoyed your views (and the occasional good review from your main site😉) You have a unique way to present and inspire, keep up those feisty reviews! Cheers from New Zealand!
Hahaha.... well, good luck with those intentions. I actually think those kind of video's are your forte. Not only are they very entertaining and laced with all sorts of interesting trivia, I also find them to be thought-provoking in a playful kind of way. I don't always share some of your opinions (nor should I) but I do respect historical facts and contexts. It's like the sometimes hilarious commentsection of your "reference-recording" video. The facts are what is/was real. Not how you feel it should be. Keep going strong.
Your videos are so informative, yet so so entertaining! I really enjoyed this one, it is great that you have such a good sense of humor about music and music criticism! Keep up the great work!
The negative responses you receive are indicative of a general problem in our society (or maybe culture) where contemplating an opinion that differs from our own should not be considered or even listened to. I found the concept of your original video very intriguing and thank you for the ride it sent my mind on!
I don't regard the video as a mistake, because it touched on a subject that is integral to the history of Western Classical music -thus, I am not sure if anyone disputes the influence of JS Bach, Beethoven or Wagner, but when it comes to the composers who were great within a genre but didn't change anything then you provoke the kind of endless chatter that is merely 'I prefer x to y', and so on. That said, it is also the kind of topic that is best handled by someone who knows enough about the history to make an informed comment, that is the harder part of the discussion that you have often excelled at, pointing out that a recording has status because of the time when it was released, the musicians involved, and so on. So keep on filming, and giving us the important and trivial things to think about.
Hi! I think an interesting video idea could be talking about how classical music has changed over the last century or so. Why classical musicians stopped improvising and people became obsessed with creating the perfect “interpretation” of the score rather than playing the music how they think it sounds best. I’d love to hear any thought you have about that. I love your videos Dave! Thanks!
Ha! I enjoyed that video. I was also one to comment on Fasch's utility to aspects of music that I value. I didn't declare him the greatest and don't believe I expressed any vitriol for him being named in that context. I did enjoy the provocation of thought and resultant interaction.
That was the first video for me from this beautiful channel! It popped in my UA-cam algorithm and that changed my life since as I got addicted to your amazing videos. It was one of the most positive changes for me recently so please ignore the negative comments. I have a question if you don’t mind, who is the composer that you most listen to?
Actually that original episode was an excellent thought piece., if listeners stuck to your intended concept. The problem was those who didn’t listen or think. Don’t be deterred (not that I’m worried); it’s always good to be provocative and help us rethink and refine how we understand the evolution of classical music.
I participate in a couple local-interest Facebook groups where I post relevant historical photos I run across and in my caption fully but briefly describe where they were taken and what's in them. Inevitably the posts get scads of comments from people asking What is this? and Where is this? plus others that misidentify the subject and/or location.
I watched the video and found it to pose an interesting question, but didn’t comment because I didn’t feel I had much to add. There’s probably many who felt the same. On a related note, I was a grad student at Rutgers during a Wuorinen residency and heard him give a pre-concert talk on a chamber work he composed. His concept for the piece was to reverse the usual building of tension to a climax, and start instead with a climax and gradually unwind it to zero tension. Meh.
I can't believe you expected a serious debate after that slightly polemical video. I thought you provoked this kind of reactions to make a point. I was obviously mistaken 😂. Again.
Are there examples of composers not well recognized in their time that became well known later. Mahler is a weak example as he was simi-discovered by Bernstein. Even Schubert was not well recognized in his time. I 'd love your videos and strongly respect your dedication and erudition. Possibly that is because of my limited knowledge base, but I think I know enough to appreciate you are the real deal.
Some folks define themselves with this stuff, and you poked at their core.. believe you should reconsider not doing these anymore, as it’s very entertaining to some (many?) of us - it’s certainly one off the reasons I tune in.. Just a thought.
Folks should learn to "agree to disagree". There's stuff i don't agree with but hating is such cheap way of dealing with opinions. Take good care of yourself, Dave. 😊🎼🎶🎶
No need to apologise or detract something you've said here Dave it's all part & parcel of the opinions & context therein presented in your rather wonderful & stimulating channel which we are invited into. If the interminable stuffy ones who get offended easily start carping then deletion as you say is probably the best policy. I usually see the funny side of things I disagree with anyway so it ain't ever my problem. Music is a gift of entertainment which has been blessed by the gods, so it depends upon which ones find favour to be worshipped or not according to their honorific values in history. Ives kinda summed it up really with the "Unanswered Question." One thing I would really like to know, though - do we know what are Mildred's favourite 3 Places in New England?!
Do you remember your short video series in which you called Liszt crap? hahahahaha. I respect your courage to be actually critical as a critic, that's something we don't really see today. never change dave, never change
Hi Dave. I would say that your biggest mistake was to propose such a short list. A larger, more caballistic number, like "72 composers we could live without", would have been better. And a larger list maybe would bring some comfort to the ego of the "(un)chosen ones" and their die-hard supporters.
You mention the people who are horrified by negative criticism. I can never understand these people. One version of this I have come across holds that negative commentary or criticism of music (or whatever art form it is) is actively destructive to the future of the entire art form itself. Just a bizarre attitude.
I would add that a version of this feeling prevails in a portion of the classical music press, where they can be this really non-commital avoidance of stating negative criticism forthrightly. Really bland.
I watched that video with unmitigated glee - not that I agreed with all of it, but I was aware of a tongue buried deeply in cheek and so did not for a moment take it seriously. But what is caviar for some is sometimes gar-bage for others. But I am a little disappointed. One should only apologize for an action that is either illegal or immoral. Was that video immoral? No. Was it illegal? No. Did you lie? No. Did you offend anything but some excessively sensitive nerve endings of a few delicate viewers? No. Then the only mistake you made was to apologize. If the entire world does not like what you say, if you say it in good faith no matter how salted with wit and a tad of flippancy (and no one who knows anything about your videos can claim to be unaware of either of these), that is the entire world's problem - it isn't yours. A Spanish writers once said that, just as hypocrisy is the compliment vice pays to virtue, so provocativeness is the compliment that virtue pays to vice. Cheers!
@@gustavmahler3228 Yes. I find David very opinionated to the point where he always thinks he's right. He often criticises me because he is jealous of me being a Percussionist like him.Always belittles me
He edits his channel and as an editor he wants to maintain a certain standard and clarity. Just accept it as supervised commenting. If you feel misunderstood, adjust and try again. I don't know what's wrong with that.@@Richard-b5r9v
@@gustavmahler3228 He edits his channel and as an editor he wants to maintain a certain standard and clarity. Just accept it as supervised commenting..
Dear Dave, I am following your videos for more than one year on a daily basis! I completely share your view with regard to the inadequacy of the comments you categorized in your new video. But may I make now a somewhat critical observation on your presentation? You explain at the beginning that you were referring to composers the non-existence thereof would not have changed the course of music history. If I have not misunderstood what you explained, I disagree. In France at least, I could affirm that Boulez did occupy a very important place - well desserved or not! - in the trends in contemporary music in Europe in the 50's, for almost 20 years at least. Without Boulez (or Stockhausen), a full generation of composers would not have existed, or composed in the manner they did (for example Jean Barraqué)... obviously without prejudice to how we appreciate (or not) their music! May I add that even as a quite old collector of thousands of LPs and now CDs, I became for example an inhabitant of the Bax galaxy!
You make a perfectly valid point, but I am taking the longer view. That whole generation could have vanished and it would not have made any difference.
I didnt regret the video, only my answer. I take back what I said about Alessandro Scarlatti. Any regrets about Classical Music's 10 Dirtiest Secrets? I think it was misunderstood by some.
I thought the original video was pretty funny, especially when you presented the three composers as a sort of human sacrifice to Cancrizans to save the rest of music. I think people might have been disturbed that you fed some poor composers to be devoured by an evil monster, so got defensive. The video makes a good point, however, that sometimes composers unjustifiably acquire a bandwagon, when in reality they are often sound and fury signifying not much.
Regarding people doesn't finish listening to the videos before commenting. Sometimes that is because the videos are rather long. I wonder if you'd be interested to publish all your scripts in the videos in a book. A video of 30 minutes would take 30 minutes to listen to. But it likely will take me much less time to read the text and get the exact same contents. And we don't need to learn about your cat or moving your apartment and focus only on music
I don't have scripts and I don't care to publish these talks in print. If you don't want to watch them, that's fine. Just spare all of us the uninformed comments.
@@DavesClassicalGuidePlease don't consider making shorter videos (as one viewer suggested). The more words, the more info & opinion, and that's what we're here for!
One thing that can't be argued with is that Mildred is a cat we can't live without.
Mildred having a wash was quite soothing and peaceful. Errr, what did you say Dave? 🙃
@bumblesby funnyfunnyfunnyfunny 😅😅😅😅
If there is one thing I learned in 40 years as a classical radio host, it's that you can't please everyone. I used to get letters and phone calls the gist of which was "HOW can you waste your airtime on (fill in name of composer/performance/work)?" It brought to mind Andre Previn's wonderful memoir "No Minor Chords", where he mentions his father, a learned and cultured gentleman who never really found his niche in America. Andre would introduce him to a new piece of music, and Dad would invariably say, "Well, it's all right, but it isn't the Eroica". My job, as I saw it, was to offer a wide variety of music, in the hope that people would occasionally hear stuff they weren't familiar with and think to themselves, "Where has this been all my life?" Sure, you're going to play the Eroica, and the other widely acknowledged masterpieces (plus the warhorses that people love so much) more often than you're going to play, say, the symphonies of Neils Gade. The point was to balance the unfamiliar with bonbons like the Strauss waltzes.
When I read some of the comments you get, I notice that many folks oftentimes haven't really listened attentively to what you're saying. Social media, it seems to me, highlights a more general problem, whether in face-to-face conversations or otherwise: we don't really listen to each other. Sure, we "hear" each other, but don't truly listen. It's like listening to music. Do you merely "hear" the music, or do your really, mindfully listen? More commonly, we filter whatever we hear through self-projection. I've sure noticed this with my students. When I read responses to things I've discussed, I sometimes don't recognize what comes back to me. It feels like talking to a brick wall. Nevertheless, I love teaching, and have accepted the fact that while many will never really get the points I'm offering, there are plenty of others who do. We really appreciate what you're trying to do, and are having a great, fun time watching your videos. Thanks!
I don't always agree with what you say - as I am sure is the way of it for ALL of us on here.
But I damned will support to the end your right to say it - you are far, far more qualified than [dare I say it] 99% of us on here...
I also feel strongly that people who do disagree in comments on here should do so in a way that is becoming of someone who is part of this community.
I have been a Classical Music lover since the late 1950s, learned a lot about music being in band from 1958. I have enjoyed your videos for several years now and appreciate you knowledge. I don't remember which composers you mentioned in that video, but I do remember that video. The fact that you even remember those composers is an aknowledgement of their existence and even a respect you have for them. I love your criticisms of musicians and encourage you to continue. Many thanks for your videos.
I’m glad you made this video and pinpointed it’s just the nature of this medium. I’ll never understand people who highjack a comment in order to begin a completely different conversation, or choose a single phrase to focus on, and ignore the entire point you made. But I’ll always ignore them.
Point taken. This is why we can’t have nice things. However, you certainly did seemingly take joy (hilariously) in demeaning the works of those 3 composers. 😂
I take joy in all of my videos.
Being a professional musician I have always enjoyed your views (and the occasional good review from your main site😉) You have a unique way to present and inspire, keep up those feisty reviews! Cheers from New Zealand!
Hahaha.... well, good luck with those intentions. I actually think those kind of video's are your forte. Not only are they very entertaining and laced with all sorts of interesting trivia, I also find them to be thought-provoking in a playful kind of way. I don't always share some of your opinions (nor should I) but I do respect historical facts and contexts. It's like the sometimes hilarious commentsection of your "reference-recording" video. The facts are what is/was real. Not how you feel it should be. Keep going strong.
Your videos are so informative, yet so so entertaining! I really enjoyed this one, it is great that you have such a good sense of humor about music and music criticism! Keep up the great work!
The negative responses you receive are indicative of a general problem in our society (or maybe culture) where contemplating an opinion that differs from our own should not be considered or even listened to. I found the concept of your original video very intriguing and thank you for the ride it sent my mind on!
I don't regard the video as a mistake, because it touched on a subject that is integral to the history of Western Classical music -thus, I am not sure if anyone disputes the influence of JS Bach, Beethoven or Wagner, but when it comes to the composers who were great within a genre but didn't change anything then you provoke the kind of endless chatter that is merely 'I prefer x to y', and so on. That said, it is also the kind of topic that is best handled by someone who knows enough about the history to make an informed comment, that is the harder part of the discussion that you have often excelled at, pointing out that a recording has status because of the time when it was released, the musicians involved, and so on. So keep on filming, and giving us the important and trivial things to think about.
Oh how did I miss that video?! I love Dave's spicy takes and other controversies- they are like catnip to me. lol.
Hi! I think an interesting video idea could be talking about how classical music has changed over the last century or so. Why classical musicians stopped improvising and people became obsessed with creating the perfect “interpretation” of the score rather than playing the music how they think it sounds best. I’d love to hear any thought you have about that. I love your videos Dave! Thanks!
Ha! I enjoyed that video. I was also one to comment on Fasch's utility to aspects of music that I value. I didn't declare him the greatest and don't believe I expressed any vitriol for him being named in that context. I did enjoy the provocation of thought and resultant interaction.
That was the first video for me from this beautiful channel! It popped in my UA-cam algorithm and that changed my life since as I got addicted to your amazing videos. It was one of the most positive changes for me recently so please ignore the negative comments. I have a question if you don’t mind, who is the composer that you most listen to?
I really don't have a favorite.
Actually that original episode was an excellent thought piece., if listeners stuck to your intended concept. The problem was those who didn’t listen or think. Don’t be deterred (not that I’m worried); it’s always good to be provocative and help us rethink and refine how we understand the evolution of classical music.
I recall that video. If that's your worst mistake, you're doing pretty well.
You gave me so many beautiful minutes checking out Graunke; so many laughs!
Keep on what you’re doing! Greetings from Norway!👍
I participate in a couple local-interest Facebook groups where I post relevant historical photos I run across and in my caption fully but briefly describe where they were taken and what's in them. Inevitably the posts get scads of comments from people asking What is this? and Where is this? plus others that misidentify the subject and/or location.
Haha. You reminded me of the hilarious Bob and Ray sketch about the Komodo dragon. The interviewer who doesn't listen to a word you say.
I watched the video and found it to pose an interesting question, but didn’t comment because I didn’t feel I had much to add. There’s probably many who felt the same. On a related note, I was a grad student at Rutgers during a Wuorinen residency and heard him give a pre-concert talk on a chamber work he composed. His concept for the piece was to reverse the usual building of tension to a climax, and start instead with a climax and gradually unwind it to zero tension. Meh.
Social media are not the best places to have nuanced discussions.
True.
Been there. When I have a scholarly contribution to make, I narrowcast as much as possible.
I can't believe you expected a serious debate after that slightly polemical video. I thought you provoked this kind of reactions to make a point. I was obviously mistaken 😂. Again.
Are there examples of composers not well recognized in their time that became well known later. Mahler is a weak example as he was simi-discovered by Bernstein. Even Schubert was not well recognized in his time. I 'd love your videos and strongly respect your dedication and erudition. Possibly that is because of my limited knowledge base, but I think I know enough to appreciate you are the real deal.
Some folks define themselves with this stuff, and you poked at their core.. believe you should reconsider not doing these anymore, as it’s very entertaining to some (many?) of us - it’s certainly one off the reasons I tune in..
Just a thought.
Oh, I won't stop entirely. I was referring to asking for input on certain historical matters.
Folks should learn to "agree to disagree". There's stuff i don't agree with but hating is such cheap way of dealing with opinions. Take good care of yourself, Dave. 😊🎼🎶🎶
No need to apologise or detract something you've said here Dave it's all part & parcel of the opinions & context therein presented in your rather wonderful & stimulating channel which we are invited into. If the interminable stuffy ones who get offended easily start carping then deletion as you say is probably the best policy. I usually see the funny side of things I disagree with anyway so it ain't ever my problem. Music is a gift of entertainment which has been blessed by the gods, so it depends upon which ones find favour to be worshipped or not according to their honorific values in history. Ives kinda summed it up really with the "Unanswered Question." One thing I would really like to know, though - do we know what are Mildred's favourite 3 Places in New England?!
She hasn't said, but I'll ask her.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Knowing them as I do, felines usually keep their own counsel, but will be interesting if she ever divulges!
Dave! Can we have a top ten of Mildreds favorite recordings? Thanks!
amen, Dave!
Do you remember your short video series in which you called Liszt crap? hahahahaha. I respect your courage to be actually critical as a critic, that's something we don't really see today. never change dave, never change
We need the composers who didn't matter to make the great composers greater.
Mildred is your redeeming feature.
Hi Dave. I would say that your biggest mistake was to propose such a short list. A larger, more caballistic number, like "72 composers we could live without", would have been better. And a larger list maybe would bring some comfort to the ego of the "(un)chosen ones" and their die-hard supporters.
You mention the people who are horrified by negative criticism. I can never understand these people. One version of this I have come across holds that negative commentary or criticism of music (or whatever art form it is) is actively destructive to the future of the entire art form itself. Just a bizarre attitude.
I would add that a version of this feeling prevails in a portion of the classical music press, where they can be this really non-commital avoidance of stating negative criticism forthrightly. Really bland.
I watched that video with unmitigated glee - not that I agreed with all of it, but I was aware of a tongue buried deeply in cheek and so did not for a moment take it seriously. But what is caviar for some is sometimes gar-bage for others. But I am a little disappointed. One should only apologize for an action that is either illegal or immoral. Was that video immoral? No. Was it illegal? No. Did you lie? No. Did you offend anything but some excessively sensitive nerve endings of a few delicate viewers? No. Then the only mistake you made was to apologize. If the entire world does not like what you say, if you say it in good faith no matter how salted with wit and a tad of flippancy (and no one who knows anything about your videos can claim to be unaware of either of these), that is the entire world's problem - it isn't yours. A Spanish writers once said that, just as hypocrisy is the compliment vice pays to virtue, so provocativeness is the compliment that virtue pays to vice. Cheers!
Funny-or maybe not- how much anger and disdain that the arts inspire.
Being a music critic you are bound to get conflicting views from your listeners. Comes with the territory
That’s why I dont understand dave deleting comments. Like this is what you signed up for, being a critic.
@@gustavmahler3228 Yes. I find David very opinionated to the point where he always thinks he's right. He often criticises me because he is jealous of me being a Percussionist like him.Always belittles me
He edits his channel and as an editor he wants to maintain a certain standard and clarity. Just accept it as supervised commenting. If you feel misunderstood, adjust and try again. I don't know what's wrong with that.@@Richard-b5r9v
@@gustavmahler3228 He edits his channel and as an editor he wants to maintain a certain standard and clarity. Just accept it as supervised commenting..
@@johannesortmann2789 “maintaining a certain standard” via censorship of the smallest things is a slippery slope
Oh wow, i missed that first video! What is the name of it or is there a link to it?
It is called Three composers we could live whithout.
Dear Dave, I am following your videos for more than one year on a daily basis! I completely share your view with regard to the inadequacy of the comments you categorized in your new video. But may I make now a somewhat critical observation on your presentation? You explain at the beginning that you were referring to composers the non-existence thereof would not have changed the course of music history. If I have not misunderstood what you explained, I disagree. In France at least, I could affirm that Boulez did occupy a very important place - well desserved or not! - in the trends in contemporary music in Europe in the 50's, for almost 20 years at least. Without Boulez (or Stockhausen), a full generation of composers would not have existed, or composed in the manner they did (for example Jean Barraqué)... obviously without prejudice to how we appreciate (or not) their music! May I add that even as a quite old collector of thousands of LPs and now CDs, I became for example an inhabitant of the Bax galaxy!
You make a perfectly valid point, but I am taking the longer view. That whole generation could have vanished and it would not have made any difference.
Which is the video where you undress to Beethoven’s 9th, again?
I'm supposed to remember?
Mildred upstaged you from the moment she came onscreen until the very end. Mr. Erudite meets his match!
Dunno Dave: is it worse to be misunderstood or to be ignored?
I didnt regret the video, only my answer. I take back what I said about Alessandro Scarlatti.
Any regrets about Classical Music's 10 Dirtiest Secrets? I think it was misunderstood by some.
Yes it was, but I expected that going in.
So I suppose your "Composers/conductors who should be put up against a wall" chat is indefinitely shelved?
Probably.
I thought the original video was pretty funny, especially when you presented the three composers as a sort of human sacrifice to Cancrizans to save the rest of music. I think people might have been disturbed that you fed some poor composers to be devoured by an evil monster, so got defensive. The video makes a good point, however, that sometimes composers unjustifiably acquire a bandwagon, when in reality they are often sound and fury signifying not much.
Or that it really is all just entertainment, not profound cultural enlightenment...
On the contrary, you SHOULD do it again!
Now, you have the right to be the prophet of Cancrizans.
He who decides which composer should exist, or not.
Another mistake you made was allowing me to post my weird comments for your videos...yuk yuk Thanks from an OLD MAN anyway C ya, Dave
I have preferred your “reverse” series of Composers you are doing without but really shouldn’t be.
Regarding people doesn't finish listening to the videos before commenting. Sometimes that is because the videos are rather long. I wonder if you'd be interested to publish all your scripts in the videos in a book. A video of 30 minutes would take 30 minutes to listen to. But it likely will take me much less time to read the text and get the exact same contents. And we don't need to learn about your cat or moving your apartment and focus only on music
I don't have scripts and I don't care to publish these talks in print. If you don't want to watch them, that's fine. Just spare all of us the uninformed comments.
@@DavesClassicalGuidePlease don't consider making shorter videos (as one viewer suggested). The more words, the more info & opinion, and that's what we're here for!
Your cat give herself a very thorough bath during this one!