Great video! Glad I stumbled upon this. This whole time i thought my barrel was shot out because i could fit a round down it to the shoulder 😂 I was confused on why it was still accurate.
Like these yours is also force matched, both of these rifles are fully matching, the lineout number is not counted as a mismatch number as the new matching number is next to it. All refurbs are force matched, all of them, it's just how they were refinished, they worked in bulk, no choice with millions of weapons to overhaul, still took them over 30 years to get it done.
The nature of a mass refurbishment as was the case with the millions of rifles the USSR refurbished in the 30 or so years after WW2 makes it impossible to keep like numbered parts with a particular barreled receiver, assuming they had been matching when turned in for refurb. All refurbs were force matched, it was just part of the process, it was the easiest and quickest way to get it done, some numbered more neatly that others. In the US we use only one number on a rifle, it's easier.
Sooner or later everyone sells something, I am not yet broke or sick so nothing is pushing me to sell. For now I will keep the collection I have, but I don't add to it like I used to, not at todays prices, I am way to cheap to pay them.
I have a few more dealing with the Refurb M91/30 as well, I was getting a lot of questions about the refurbs and figured a few video's were needed. Thanks to the Russians closed mouth attitude about their arms production we don't kinow a great deal. Production totals, what most of the small markings mean, but we have figured out some things. At the moment we are trying to figure out what the recently imported Molot marked rifles are, as yet that is a work in progress.
If they are matching then they have numbers, two things could have been done, a new bolt body was used, unlikely on two rifles, or the old number was removed by grinding, the metal buffed smooth as was done to every refurb bolt, and the new number stamped on. I have over 60 refurbs alone, some have engraved numbers, some you can still see the old number a bit, and others like yours with a well finished bolt and neatly applied new number. It's nothing unusual.
I have an M38 .. dated 1895 tula. i have had it for year's now, I am not sure what i have there , new stock on it very light in color to. it was sold to me from a sporting good catalog in 1996. it was sold as an arsenal refinished. I an looking at every Y T video i can to find out what i have.
WHat you have is the 1891/38, these were made from M1891 rifles cut down to M38 size post WW2, probably in Czechoslovakia, but could have been Russia. Not to be confused with the 1891/59, these were M1891/30 rifles cut down to M38 size during the same period, mid to late 1950's. Why they were made still hasn't been answered, none appear to have been issued, they were imported here in the 1990's. Actual M38's were made by Izhevsk 1939-1945, and by Tula in 1944 only. The 91/38 is much harder to find, and easily double the cost of a war years M38 due to it's rarity. 1939, and 1945, as well as the one year Tula are hard to find low production years and will be more expensive M38's. 91/38's will have earlier dates from 1890's to 1920's. Accuracy tends to be better with these as the barrel blank for the M1891 rifle is thicker than the M38, and the cut back eliminated at least muzzle erosion from the original full length bore, and that tends to be the worst area for wear in a Mosin barrel. You have a very nice find that is sought after by many Mosin collectors.
@@RockIsland1913 THANK' YOU, It is a TULA An i just checked the barrel has not been has not been reamed out like you said in your video.I guess this one never saw action in WW2 cause the stock is like new . The date on the receiver 1895. ser. # 163100 an in Russian it says ,,HMNEPATOPCKIN ? OK thank's again ,i subed your channel,. I am going to make a short video of the rifle here in a few days. I will try an find you an give you the link.👍
They didn't ream the barrels out, they cut the front of the barrel down until it was M38 size. Think sawed off shotgun, they sawed off the first foot of the barrel, and made a new crown and front sight. Being an 1895 dated barrel the original M1891 rifle they took the action out of would have been used in many conflicts ( possibly) Russo-Japanese war, 1905 Rebellion, First World War, Russian revolution of 1917, Winter War with Finland 1939-40, World War II, use in any of these conflicts is possible. Tula made M1891 rifles for many decades in the hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions. Once the action was cut down and put in the M38 style stock it's military use was over except as a reserve weapon in storage. I am sure the communists had a plan for the carbines, but whatever it was never came about. Instead the carbines were sold to collectors.
1943, not every rifle made in 1943 will have the rough look, when the press was off they returned to building rifles in the normal fusion. I see this with the 91/30's also, some rough, some smooth, all 1943 production. Both of my 1943 M44 trials rifles have smooth receivers and 43 tang dates. Far more rare will be a 1942 dated rifle with a smooth receiver, 1942 was not a fun year for the USSR, and the push would have been non stop that year.
Ha! Very possibly, I have only the observations made of my own collection and that of some friends to go by, and a lifetime of collecting experiance. The problem is the Russians do not talk about their small arms production be it new rifles or how they refurbished something 60 years ago. Much of what I know about these rifles comes from Karl-Heinz Wrobel and his work Drei Linien Die Gewehre Mosin-Nagant, he is a well known Mosin researcher and respected in the milsurp community.
Great video! Glad I stumbled upon this. This whole time i thought my barrel was shot out because i could fit a round down it to the shoulder 😂 I was confused on why it was still accurate.
These M38's are my absolute favorite Mosin variant. Pretty rare in my area, and I don't wanna order online 'cause God knows what you'll get.
really good video I enjoyed it and it gave me some good insight because I have an m38
Nice video. I just subscribed. Are you by any chance JYD from the forum?
Yes
Great Vid....I have an Izzy M44 and my bro has a Rommy 38 with a 44 stock. Both great shooters...
Like these yours is also force matched, both of these rifles are fully matching, the lineout number is not counted as a mismatch number as the new matching number is next to it. All refurbs are force matched, all of them, it's just how they were refinished, they worked in bulk, no choice with millions of weapons to overhaul, still took them over 30 years to get it done.
The nature of a mass refurbishment as was the case with the millions of rifles the USSR refurbished in the 30 or so years after WW2 makes it impossible to keep like numbered parts with a particular barreled receiver, assuming they had been matching when turned in for refurb. All refurbs were force matched, it was just part of the process, it was the easiest and quickest way to get it done, some numbered more neatly that others. In the US we use only one number on a rifle, it's easier.
Hello I love your collection I hope you don't mind but Im just curious would you ever sell any firearms from your collection?
Sooner or later everyone sells something, I am not yet broke or sick so nothing is pushing me to sell. For now I will keep the collection I have, but I don't add to it like I used to, not at todays prices, I am way to cheap to pay them.
great video man like it a lot
I have a few more dealing with the Refurb M91/30 as well, I was getting a lot of questions about the refurbs and figured a few video's were needed. Thanks to the Russians closed mouth attitude about their arms production we don't kinow a great deal. Production totals, what most of the small markings mean, but we have figured out some things. At the moment we are trying to figure out what the recently imported Molot marked rifles are, as yet that is a work in progress.
for sure not from the cleaning rod. There is a tool to prevent that when using the rod. they are simply shot out......
If they are matching then they have numbers, two things could have been done, a new bolt body was used, unlikely on two rifles, or the old number was removed by grinding, the metal buffed smooth as was done to every refurb bolt, and the new number stamped on. I have over 60 refurbs alone, some have engraved numbers, some you can still see the old number a bit, and others like yours with a well finished bolt and neatly applied new number. It's nothing unusual.
I have an M38 .. dated 1895 tula. i have had it for year's now, I am not sure what i have there , new stock on it very light in color to. it was sold to me from a sporting good catalog in 1996. it was sold as an arsenal refinished. I an looking at every Y T video i can to find out what i have.
WHat you have is the 1891/38, these were made from M1891 rifles cut down to M38 size post WW2, probably in Czechoslovakia, but could have been Russia. Not to be confused with the 1891/59, these were M1891/30 rifles cut down to M38 size during the same period, mid to late 1950's. Why they were made still hasn't been answered, none appear to have been issued, they were imported here in the 1990's. Actual M38's were made by Izhevsk 1939-1945, and by Tula in 1944 only. The 91/38 is much harder to find, and easily double the cost of a war years M38 due to it's rarity. 1939, and 1945, as well as the one year Tula are hard to find low production years and will be more expensive M38's. 91/38's will have earlier dates from 1890's to 1920's. Accuracy tends to be better with these as the barrel blank for the M1891 rifle is thicker than the M38, and the cut back eliminated at least muzzle erosion from the original full length bore, and that tends to be the worst area for wear in a Mosin barrel. You have a very nice find that is sought after by many Mosin collectors.
@@RockIsland1913 THANK' YOU, It is a TULA An i just checked the barrel has not been has not been reamed out like you said in your video.I guess this one never saw action in WW2 cause the stock is like new . The date on the receiver 1895. ser. # 163100 an in Russian it says ,,HMNEPATOPCKIN ? OK thank's again ,i subed your channel,. I am going to make a short video of the rifle here in a few days. I will try an find you an give you the link.👍
They didn't ream the barrels out, they cut the front of the barrel down until it was M38 size. Think sawed off shotgun, they sawed off the first foot of the barrel, and made a new crown and front sight. Being an 1895 dated barrel the original M1891 rifle they took the action out of would have been used in many conflicts ( possibly) Russo-Japanese war, 1905 Rebellion, First World War, Russian revolution of 1917, Winter War with Finland 1939-40, World War II, use in any of these conflicts is possible. Tula made M1891 rifles for many decades in the hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions. Once the action was cut down and put in the M38 style stock it's military use was over except as a reserve weapon in storage. I am sure the communists had a plan for the carbines, but whatever it was never came about. Instead the carbines were sold to collectors.
I'd love to know if there is an earlier tag date on that smooth reciever M38.
1943, not every rifle made in 1943 will have the rough look, when the press was off they returned to building rifles in the normal fusion. I see this with the 91/30's also, some rough, some smooth, all 1943 production. Both of my 1943 M44 trials rifles have smooth receivers and 43 tang dates. Far more rare will be a 1942 dated rifle with a smooth receiver, 1942 was not a fun year for the USSR, and the push would have been non stop that year.
I would go with Rock 'JYD Boss" knows a a bit about these and other mil-surps. Distinct voice Boss!!
I just got a 42 izzy m38 I love it
Ha! Very possibly, I have only the observations made of my own collection and that of some friends to go by, and a lifetime of collecting experiance. The problem is the Russians do not talk about their small arms production be it new rifles or how they refurbished something 60 years ago. Much of what I know about these rifles comes from Karl-Heinz Wrobel and his work Drei Linien Die Gewehre Mosin-Nagant, he is a well known Mosin researcher and respected in the milsurp community.