Why you SHOULD use imitation vanilla
Вставка
- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- Get 20% off an entire year of Brilliant’s interactive, educational content - including the new MinuteEarth course! - at brilliant.org/MinuteFood.
What’s with all the different kinds of vanilla - and are the pricey ones worth it?
𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝘀𝗰𝗶𝗲𝗻𝘁𝗶𝗳𝗶𝗰 𝗻𝗶𝘁𝘁𝘆-𝗴𝗿𝗶𝘁𝘁𝘆:
-Fache, M, Boutevin, B, Caillol, S. (201) Vanillin production from lignin and its use as a renewable chemical. ACS Sustain. Chem. Eng. 4: 35-46. pubs.acs.org/d...
-Kirk, RE, Othmer, DF, & Mann, CA (2000). Vanillin. Encyclopedia of Chemical Technology. onlinelibrary....
-Maeda, M., Hosoya, T., Yoshioka, K. et al. (2018) Vanillin production from native softwood lignin in the presence of tetrabutylammonium ion. J Wood Sci 64, 810-815. jwoodscience.s...
-Ravendra K, Prem S, (2012). A Review on the Vanillin derivatives showing various biological activities. International Journal of PharmTech Research 4: 266-279. www.semanticsc...
-Sharp MD, Kocaoglu-Vurma NA, Langford V, Rodriguez-Saona LE, Harper WJ (2012). Rapid discrimination and characterization of vanilla bean extracts by attenuated total reflection infrared spectroscopy and selected ion flow tube mass spectrometry. J Food Sci. 77 (3):C284-92. pubmed.ncbi.nl...
𝗚𝗼𝗼𝗱 (𝗮𝗰𝗰𝗲𝘀𝘀𝗶𝗯𝗹𝗲) 𝗿𝗲𝗳𝗲𝗿𝗲𝗻𝗰𝗲𝘀 & 𝗵𝗼𝘄-𝘁𝗼𝘀:
-www.femaflavor...
-sitn.hms.harva...
-cooksvanilla.co...
-www.bakitbox.c...
-www.cooksillus...
-www.seriouseat...
MinuteFood is created by Kate Yoshida, Arcadi Garcia & Bill Mead, and produced by Neptune Studios LLC.
Merch | store.dftba.co...
TikTok | / minutefood_
Twitter | / minutefood
Instagram | / minutefood_
Facebook | / minutefood
My chef father always told me that pure vanilla was more concentrated and imitation was watered down, so you can use imitation in baked goods where a lot of moisture evaporates, but in non-baked desserts/drinks it’s better to use pure vanilla. In classic dad fashion, it seems he was right for the wrong reasons.
In the US most imitation vanilla extract is more watered down unfortunately. ymmv.
@@Danielle_1234 TV tropes enjoyer
I get that, my family homemade ice cream was goated for me for years. But that's because we use pure vanilla extract and we don't cook the ice cream mix. Vanilla bean Hagen daz is the closest approximation to it i can find on grocery shelves in my area. But just like she mentioned in the video my family used artificial for baked goods. We never understood why baking vanilla made artifiacal and pure taste similar but know i now i have proper evidence.
I've been looking into the difference between these for a few days now, particularly because where I'm at you can get a huge bottle of "Mexican Vanilla Extract" for like $20. This stuff is apparently regular vanilla extract, watered down, but then has added vanillin. So, it's like half extract, half imitation.
The reason chefs like to use real vanilla in non baked goods is that the heat destroys many of vanillas compounds (there's a lot more in it then just vanillin) but if it's not heated much real vanilla really reveals it's complexity which vanillin just doesn't have
A lot of people discussing vanilin oftentimes ignore the fact that there are other aromatic compounds, which really make difference in cold food - THANK YOU for highlighting this!
I wish they would have added this to the title since I knew there were a difference but I did not recall the exact reason
It's just like making alcohol, there's different types of beer, wine, etc. But essentially they are all ethanol.
@@mavinicesumaljag2023 Yeah, but no. The other compounds are way more important (and just literally a much higher fraction) in beer than the non-vanillin in vanilla bean extract.
It is also odd that so many people think synthetically produced versions of flavorings (and other stuff) are somehow worse for health/dangerous. We know exactly what is in those synthetic products, but the natural ones have all sorts of random other chemicals in them. Yeah, that often adds to the complexity of flavor and introduces some randomness which can be interesting/exciting, but it is less consistent and certainly not "safer"
@@iamagi ...the video is less than 5 minutes long though. The title is just a thesis of sorts, it doesn't need to explain everything in the video, and the video itself explains it fine.
@@travcollier I can't stand the people that think "Natural" is, in of itself, a good thing and "Artificial", in of itself, is a bad thing. Or even worse, the people that act like hard-to-pronounce chemical names somehow imply that it is harmful in some way? I understand it's an emotional reaction to the history of commercial foods and certain companies being shady surrounding food additives, but the FDA (And EMA in Europe) is highly trustworthy and generally speaking, everything that is approved for use in foods has studies behind them examining their safety. That's not a 100% foolproof guarantee that everything the approved won't harm you in any way, but it's a hell of a lot more likely to be right than you or your crunchy aunt's "feelings" about artificial ingredients (Especially in cases like this, where the product is chemically identical whether it is from a natural source or synthetically made(Talking about Vanillin here, not all the volatiles in Vanilla as a whole).
That's why I love the Brazilian system for classifying these sorts of products: They can either be "artificial", "identical to natural" and "natural" essences, and those terms are protected classes, meaning you have to fill the legal criteria to be able to use in your label at all
That's great, we could use that. The US system is a little too simple.
Some terms are regulated by the FDA and others are free.
Natural is free to use and is meaningless.
Organic is a legal term.
(A funny example: A woman sold cookies and listed Love as an ingredient. The FDA made her company remove it from the ingredients to avoid confusion.
They could have it outside the ingredient list, for marketing, but not that one place haha)
(Imagine some sinister/cheap company trying to label something bad as "love" instead in the ingredients list. Not so petty then. Haha)
That’s the same system as in Germany/Europe.
However - “natural aroma” may still mean that it is distilled from a fungus “naturally” grown on sawdust :-)
So if you really want the original thing, look for “vanilla” and no aromas.
Brazil has really great regulation and systems in some areas. We often don't realize it.
I myself didn't even think about that before reading your comment.
Brazil has really great regulation and systems in some areas. We often don't realize it.
I myself didn't even think about that before reading your comment.
Some people still complain about it tho lol
My sister said that it was "identical to natural" therefore "artificial" therefore "bad for you". Maybe I should show her this video.
some of the lignin in wood products like paper slowly changes into vanillin as it naturally breaks down, which is part of why really old books smell so good
Wait really? That’s so cool!
Ligma?
@@sebaschan-uwu ua-cam.com/video/ZazNbG_3m9A/v-deo.html
Lignin is wood. It’s a saccharide/sugar. But I didn’t know that paper transforms into vanillin as it degrades.
So wood molecules do that. It makes me wonder if the vanilla plant accelerates the process within its living self.
The fact that synthetic vanilla flavor is the exact same molecule as the main flavor compound in vanilla is also true for almost all artificial fruit and vegetable flavors. The main thing is that there are tens or hundreds of different aromatic compounds in any given fruit or vegetable that combine to create the natural flavor
Exactly! The natural extracts are so much more complex.
@@ANPC-pi9vu But if you're someone like me that cannot taste much if any difference, then paying 10x the cost does not make sense.
Doubtful
this is exactly why candies and such taste "like" strawberry or raspberry, but not exactly the same as the real deal
In Argentina, I only found three labels: "vanilla natural extract", "vanilla artificial aroma identical to natural" and "vanilla artificial aroma". This last one is actually ethylvanillin which tastes just the same as vanillin but since it's stronger, you need less. But the molecule doesn't exist in nature, that's why it's not identical to "natural vanillin"
The comment I see above you by Pedro Franca also mentions this system being used in Brazil. Evidently, you guys both use the same three-tiered system! Now I wonder if other South American countries follow suit. I am not 100% sure on this so take it with a grain of salt, but to my knowledge, Ethyl Vanillin is only used as vanilla flavoring in other products here in the US, while the Immitation Vanilla for consumers is usually just Vanillin.
@@Tinil0 Don't know. I've only seen artificial and natural in Peru, though finding the latter last time I tried was unsuccessful.
Wonderful video. That's exactly why I have a little bottle of pure vanilla extract, and a bulk bottle of imitation.
My wife uses "pure extract" for the best chocolate chip cookies. I'll ask her to try the natural or artificial. Maybe we'll be doing the same as you.
I just have a small bottle of rum to which I added 3 vanilla beans. $30 of vanilla bean has lasted me for 4 years and counting, and I'm not even half way through my bottle. Buying vanilla extract, period, is a waste of money.
@@BoxStudioExecutive cool idea! I've soaked peppers in vodka for super spicy shots, never thought of using that method for Vanilla beans. Great idea!
@@thekingoffailure9967 Soaking beans in vodka is pretty much the exact process they use for Vanilla Extract in the first place, so it makes sense.
The best tasting method I've ever had, which is a bit pricy but makes for an amazing taste - get vanilla beans , score them, put them in a bottle of decent white rum, and let it sit under your sink for at least a month. It has all the flavor of pure vanilla extract plus the natural sweet, butterscotch flavors of rum.
That’s what my mother taught me to do! It’s so delicious
Plus you wind up with a ton of extract. Whiskey is also a great vehicle for it!
It's also very good with a nice bourbon :)
Funnily enough, I'm pretty sure the vanilla note to get from some aged rums and whiskeys is actually the alcohol stripping the vanillin and similar compounds out of the wood. These aren't present in white rum of course since it isn't aged, but I thought that was just funny.
I like this. Vanilla-real bean vanilla-is one of my favorite tastes in the world! Thanks for the idea!
This is exactly why I have both in my pantry. Baking is always imitation, but for any whipped cream or ice cream or really anything else that is going to get little to no heat I always splurge and get fancy vanilla.
Buy some beans and vodka. By the time you're out of the others you have cheap homemade vanilla extract.
I wonder about making ice cream with vanilla. Some recipes need to be pasteurized. I wonder how much difference it would make to add the vanilla before or after pasteurizing it. And then what difference it makes between extract and imitation. Could be a fun test
In my home, we just split the difference and, well, split the difference. There's a company called Molina that makes what they call a "Mexican Vanilla Blend" that's basically imitation vanilla extract with some actual vanilla bean in it - you get enough of the other aromatics to gain some complexity but it's also fairly cheap because it uses way less actual vanilla beans than real vanilla extract by making up the bulk with just vanillin. It's less than $7/liter.
Interesting fact about vanilla in hot and cold situations. I have both vanilla extracts and imitation in my pantry, but always use the extract because I thought it was just better no matter the application. Now I can save the good stuff for uncooked foods and use the imitation on porridges and baked goods. Thanks!
I think people tend to assume that "natural" is an indicator of quality, purity, or authenticity, but all it really means is that the ingredients come directly from things that exist in nature, as opposed to being synthesized in a lab from other things. You might assume that if a strawberry-flavoured product says it has "natural colours and flavours" that the flavour and colour of the product comes from strawberries, but it just means the ingredients used for the colours and flavours come from natural sources. A famous example is carmine, a red dye sometimes made from ground-up cochineal beetles, which can therefore be labeled as natural colour.
Even if the resulting product is the exact same down to the molecular level, the source ingredients are what determines if it gets labeled natural or artificial. It's likely that the distinction is only made as a marketing gimmick, as a way to sustain traditional industries that would otherwise be massively undercut by synthesized products.
Traditional industries also keep a lot of folks employed, since no one would bother implementing a method of synthesizing a product that takes more labour than the natural method.
Whether continuing to do something less efficient just to keep more jobs is a good use of resources us another matter...
I thinks it's funny crude oil is never considered a "natural source".
Yeah, but what's weird is that some products made from "natural" ingredients still take a lot of processing to get the end result, and the "natural" tag gives you no indication of that.
Like natural imitation maple flavor is from fenugreek seeds (in modern times at least).
I have pure vanilin(crystal powder) and while it adds a hint of vanilla to some foods, it also adds a bitterness that is paradoxically overpowering and subtle. It does this when you try to add more to achieve the vanilla flavour you are looking for but can never reach as this flavour is so hollow compared to real vanilla. The smell from this stuff vs ground vanilla pods is absolutely amazing. When i open my litttle jar of ground vanilla pods and smell it, I literally cannot help but smile and feel happy. When I smell vanilin, I'm like "....I think it kinds smells like vanilla....maybe." I get the part about the volatility in combination with heat, but I wonder just how much of the natural flavour is REALLY lost with heating. How much is lost with cooking pudding on the stove under 100C vs baking at 180. I am eating semolina now that I made with real homemade vanilla extract and I can certainly taste it. I am sure the vanilin powder would be barely noticeable.
Me too, i do still taste a difference when i bake with real vanilla. Also cookies are baked at very high temperature in general.
You understand that vanillin is the name of the molecule that is responsible for the flavor of vanilla? That means vanillin is the molecule present in both vanilla extract made from vanilla beans as well as imitation compound made in a lab (as well as naturally occurring in other natural products such as oak). You are using the word vanillin to refer exclusively to the compound made in a lab, but, as the video shows, that is not the case. Vanillin from a lab is the same molecule as vanillin from vanilla beans, is the same as vanillin from wood. It’s all vanillin that is responsible for vanilla flavor. What differs among the three sources is what other compounds go along with vanillin, and it is probably these other compounds you are noticing as tasting different between vanilla extract and imitation compounds.
So true!! You really only can add a certain amount of vanillin to get the "effect". But, if you try to "amp it up" by adding more, the results are VERY UNDESIRABLE. The bitterness you described becomes the main flavor and the "vanilla" flavor gets eclipsed by it.
@@pheresy1367 yes exactly!
@@81mysharonaIn real life no taste or smell is really made of just one tier of molecule. There are tens, hundreds, someone's thousands of them, that mix up to produce the taste and smell. It's like someone would take just one single component of a perfumes and claimed the perfumes are just that.
They're "artificial" or "imitation" vanilla because they're imitating vanilla. That they contain vanillin is irrelevant, because vanilla is more than vanillin.
It's a bit pricey to start, but making your own vanilla extract at home using beans comes out really cost effective. Especially given that the beans can be reused practically indefinitely. I bake a lot and usually make about half a gallon a year.
💯
My family got vanilla beans while on a short vacation in Hawaii from a place that made actual vanilla (and vanilla ice cream, which, by the way, was *really* good).
That was February of 2020.
We're still using the same vanilla beans for our vanilla extract, and it's been going great.
How can the beans be reused almost indefinitely? Does each batch only draw a small fraction of the total vanillin out?
@@mastod0n1 the yield falls asymptotically towards zero, so at some point, the beans aren't doing anything, but that can take a very long time (many years)
@@alquinn8576 OK good to know. Thanks
I can see the labeling shenanigans being the result of FDA regulations finding it difficult to deal with an artificial end product that is the exact same as the natural one but not really. Regalrdless, thnx for the very informative vid!
I don't think it's really an issue with chemicals that are identical so much as it is a lobbying issue. Producers of Vanilla Extract spent a lot of time and money protecting their advertising and writing the definitions for the FDA so that they could be protected and force competitors to not fight on a level playing field. I don't think it's entirely wrong of them per se, but this is why food regulations are so complex and bureaucratic.
How are vanillin made from the actual beans still not enough to be considered vanilla extract? The arbitrary artificial and natural boundary follows some kind of logic even though it's still. I just don't get why some imitation vanilla that not only has the actual chemical but even from the same plant is imitation.
The bee drawing at 0:35 is _amazing_. Just like the rest of the video!
These days I just make my own vanilla extract. Score two vanilla beans going the long way, cut them crosswise into 3 or 4 pieces so they fit in a small jar, then cover with a pint/500mL of vodka. Let it steep for four weeks and it's usable, but several months is best.
Becomes vanilla flavored vodka?
@@rillyjo5810 No. It becomes vanilla extract that's brown with an overpowering vanilla taste if you took a sip. It has the same relationship to vanilla vodka that fruit juice has to St Croix fruit-flavored seltzer.
Very nice video. The heat removing many of those extra compounds that are in pure extract, makes a lot of sense in retrospect. As a side note, it is very easy to make vanilla extract. Just put vanilla beans and white rum in a jar and let it sit for 6 months. Tastes the same as what you buy in the store, if not better, and a fraction of the cost. I have a whole pint that cost me about $30, and that is using grade A beans and a decent rum.
Where are you getting beans? $30 would get me 5 or 6 vanilla beans. Or does it just take a lot less pods than I’m picturing?
@@UrbanPanic Apparently this platform doesn't like me saying the company name because my initial reply got deleted, but the big online one with the same name as the rain forest. You can get 10 grade A Madagascar vanilla beans for $15.
I thought you were supposed to use a flavorless vodka?
@@Dashitishere22 If you want closer to the original flavor, I would suggest neutral flavored alcohols, the higher the proof the faster it will extract. Some rums are more neutral than others, but maybe some like the resulting flavor. Everclear can get it done fast, but sometimes has a bit of a renaming flavor. Additionally, doing it in the fridge can slow down the process.
Grade B vanilla beans are more often used for extract, they have less moisture so you need less per the amount of alcohol, and they’re cheaper than grade A. Grade A beans are plump, which makes them great for cooking, but when extracting the flavor you don’t want that extra moisture
I’m one of those people that has always refused to skimp on vanilla. I always go for a high quality extract, especially when making custard and eggnog from scratch. I’m definitely going to try using imitation when it comes to baked goods in the future, though(and maybe do a blind taste test for fun)
pls, don't hurt your eyes. your vision is more important than blinding yourself just for a taste test.
@@chairwood I laughed but at what cost?
Why buy high quality extract? You can make your own by buying vanilla beans, splitting them open and putting them in a bottle of liquor. Let em soak in there for about half a year and you have the best quality vanilla extract that will last you YEARS.
@@BoxStudioExecutive because most people won't want to wait half a year to get what they want.
@@raznaak so plan better and try not to be poor?
"No chemical difference" is a little misleading, for all the reasons you mentioned later in the video. There are also byproducts in the chemical production of artificial vanilla that dont have to be filtered out (admittably, in small quantities), so while the vanillin may be the same; the whole liquid you get is certainly not
I did an "America's Test Kitchen" style test between a generic imitation, "fancy" imitation (Watkins), store brand vanilla extract and "fancy" vanilla extract. I did cookies for a cooked test and smoothies for an uncooked test. The takeaway? Imitation is perfectly fine for baking but keep vanilla extract on hand for smoothies.
I discovered Watkins a few years ago, and it’s excellent.
I'm surprised you didn't mention probably my top reason to use imitation/artificial vanilla, which is that it's production most likely has less negative impacts on the environment and less reliance on poorly paid labour.
And what of the countries, such as Madagascar, that actually rely on growing commodities such as vanilla? Buying genuine vanilla supports their fragile economy.
@@jg5755 nah, better that the madagascarites be unemployed and starve to death rather than not make enough money by riley's judgment
THANK YOU FOR GIVING REFERENCES IN THE DESCRIPTION,,, I LOVE YOU
To be fair, just vanillin is responsible for like 99% of the flavor profile of vanilla - so even when you're making something that's not baked, it won't make more than a subtle difference to use the real deal. There'll probably be more of a placebo effect from having the little black spots than just vanillin vs full vanilla.
In India in local shops you most see vanilla essence which is basically imitation i think. Pure vanilla extract can be found in big stores or online shops . The difference between both of them can be more than 10 times the cost
OMG this video was SO USEFUL. I was always feeling bad for buying "fake vanilla". Thank you guys!
extracting vanillin from cow poop sounds like something NileRed would do
and then proceed to taste it and bake a cake with it
This is completely true. I was always doing this and didn't know why. I have the natural flavor vanilla that I use for french toast and I have the artificial one that I use for baking
This sounds very similar to a name brand drug vs a generic drug. You are getting the same active ingredients.
Yet, when you buy generic you aren't paying to a large company, marketing, or fancier packaging.
A drug, whether generic or brand name, is usually produced more or less the same way and when used are exactly the same. Here the vanilla extract is made in a different fashion using very different raw materials, and there are at least some cases where it is superior. So it's not really that similar. Brand names are marked up just to make more money for selling the same thing, whereas vanilla extract is marked up because the cost of production is so much higher.
@@kyleflouster4288 I get your point, and that is true.
However, my point was from 1:54 that states that the plant made vanilla extract, and the lab made extract, are the exact same molecule. That a name brand drug is the same as a generic drug.
I'm surprised you didn't mention that the majority of synthesized vanillin comes from crude oil. Or if you did, I missed it. I wonder if the world eventually switches to solar as our main form of energy, would imitation vanilla prices go up because of this?
Also in the US, once something is labeled as synthetic or imitation there aren't as many regulations they have to go through to source the materials so it's a possibility that trace amounts of compounds or molecules from the synthesization process could enter and the FDA would not require them to be labeled. So even though the molecules are identical, sourcing them from petrochemicals could have a detrimental effect on health. If it doesn't effect an individuals health, then they can tolerate it and be fine, but studies have even found that for a few people, these molecules derived from petrochemicals could triggers allergic reaction and headaches where natural vanilla would not. If people want imitation I think it's important to consider that you may want to make sure it comes from sources like rice instead of crude oil.
vanilin is not the only aromatic compound of vanilla beans. if you have ever bought a bean you know that. that's one very valid reason for calling it an imitation.
I’ll often use a “baker’s extract” which uses components from multiple sources, including some actual vanilla, to mimic the depth of flavor you get from pure vanilla extract. And honestly, it often tastes better. Mine uses vanilla, chocolate, caramel, cream, and oak flavor components. Smells heavenly.
Thank you, Edmond Albius.
sounded good, beside the coloring in your imitation being an absolute nightmare to findout about everytime i eat anything as the coloring E150 in it sends me to the hospital
“Clusterfruit” 😝
love how vanilla markets itself as "hand-pollinated" like it's special when that's just how you grow vanilla. this is my artisinal bee-pollinated carrot
Another aspect of this choice is that vanilla bean production causes deforestation and uses a lot of water, so it is highly unsustainable for the environment.
that confused / angry bee is the best part about the video
"Vanilla extract is no the same as sintetic Vanilla, but I don't agree that they need to be sold with different labels."
If you use it often enough what you need is vanilla paste, which is basically just the whole ground up bean into a paste with just enough extract to facilitate flow.
What a great channel - found it by MinutePhysics. I have a well-worn copy of Harold McGee's "On Food and Cooking", every episode of Alton Brown's Good Eats on DVD, and all 3 of the Good Eats books. So this is just right up my alley, thank you for doing this! The science of cooking for a whole new generation 🙌
A further point, synthesised vanilla contains a portion of ethyl vanillin, which has the exact same flavour but stronger. It can have a mild metallic aftertaste but only in stronger concentrations so use a smidge less either way for the same effect
Vanillin is the primary taste of vanilla- but it’s not the entire flavor profile of real vanilla, and they are distinguishable.
That being said I mostly use vanillin.
Even in the best case, not everyone can distinguish between the best natural vanilla extract and artificial vanilla.
Buying real vanilla also supports developing economies like that of Madagascar, where I live. Tourism and vanilla are one of the only significant sources of income here, and a fall in demand for either is the last thing we want.
I agree. The profits of buying vanillin or artificial vanilla goes to wealthy countries and corporates whereas buying vanilla goes to the farmers in Madagascar and Mauritius. The taste of natural is richer because of multiple flavour compounds, not just one, and you support people moving out of poverty.
I'd love to see a collab between MinuteFood and Food Theory.
The idea that all secondary flavour compounds of the vanilla bean leave your dish when subjecting it to high heat only held true if none of those compounds reacted with any of the other ingredients in your dish, didn't dissolve into the lipid fraction and didn't form any azeotropes or weren't complexed, which is an oversimplification that doesn't hold true.
Even if that were the case, foods such as dough etc. tend to self-insulate leading to a different core temperature than the exterior, allowing some of the compounds to remain inside parts of the dish.
They might also trap forming gases/vapours (that is how bread rises after all) inside the product, allowing them to condense again when they cool down.
Chemically there will always be a difference.
Now if that difference translates to a superior tasting product is a different discussion entirely, and that is up to each individual person to figure out for themselves
She kinda answers her own question in the later part. It’s called “imitation vanilla” not “imitation vanillin” because it imitates vanilla, not vanillin ‘cuz it uses a part to imitate the whole thing. Just like how weather simulations can only approximate real weather by using a model calculating with just a fraction of real-world data, this imitation also just approximates the real flavour by using a fraction (or even just a single one) of the compounds contained in vanilla
Thank you Edmond
I wish there is a patreon version of those videos with you cursing all the time. At least a few videos. So much fun
There are many flavonoids in pure vanilla extract that you wont get in imitation vanilla. You can also make extract yourself with vodka and it will save some money but not time, takes 6-12 months. The intimation contains vanillian, not vanilla, the array of things found in vanilla extract that include but are not limited to vanillian. Maybe to some they can not tell the difference but I can tell you I much prefer the pure one. EDIT: You do mention that later in the video but I can tell you right now it's a HUGE difference in cookies despite what you said.
I just buy vanilla beans in bulk, slice them down the middle, soak them in (cheap) vodka in jars, leave them for 3 months in a cool, dark place (like a kitchen cabinet), and voila: vanilla extract. Super easy. Super cheap when you consider the per ounce price, and a nice gift to give friends and family that like to cook.
I switched to imitation vanilla during the pandemic because the natural stuff became impossible to find. I wasn’t able to tell the difference, though I use it solely for baking so I’ll probably continue to go with the artificial
Thank you for this explanation.
All this is cool chemically, but there's a couple of reasons I prefer using actual vanilla beans (even though it's weaker in aroma and less cost effective, although it seems like I in Europe get it for maybe half the price or less from US): it's the main source of income for most of people in the Madagascar and their economy revolves almost purely around that. The harvest brings a year's worth of income, but they have to do traditional farming as well to feed their families.
Furthermore the processing of the bean is what makes the price tenfold and the profits go to the importer who processes the beans to say extracts. I recall the farmer gets around $20 per kilogram while the processing company gets around $200 per kilogram. Their government was trying to stabilise the market price so the farmers would get reasonably paid, but it backfired massively when the western companies looking to maximise profits turned to buying the vanilla from other regions for cheaper price.
And as with every organic source, it has many many more chemicals that enrich the flavour besides that one molecule linked to vanilla flavour. Have you ever cooked vanilla syrup from vanilla beans? That compared to imitation molecule is quite a difference. I'm willing to claim that most people get surprised if they get to smell and taste real vanilla bean aroma when they think that the vanillin sugar or similar flavour products are the taste of vanilla. Which might also play a role with how people use vanilla to describe extremely basic and boring things.
In the end this discussion makes me draw parallel to local grocery shopping where the distributor of many local products like milk, meat etc has started auctioning the producers: they have a product brand specific for the grocery chain and as such it gets a lot of push. They extort the producers in the way that whoever offers them the lowest price gets to be the producer for the brand for the time being and increase sales a ton - albeit on a barely profitable price. If the producer doesn't stomp their prices, they get a massive hit on sales. If they do, they get a massive hit on profit. They're in a lose - lose situation where they don't have any reasonable options and the local producers are quitting one by one because they can't sustain their living as farmer anymore. Meanwhile the consumers, as expected, only look in their own wallet and how many iphones they can buy if they save that not at all insignificant money on the grocery prices. They go for the cheapest option saying "it's the exact same stuff in a cheaper package, why would I pay more??" And one more thing the store brands have done is naming the brand "domestic" so people in the store look at it saying "oh this is domestic product, it must be a good thing!"
My personal decision was that if I'm in a position where I get to choose from all kinds of vanilla products to bake a delicious cake that has a luxury aroma, I can invest that much every now and then. Or if I can't afford that, I'm in a place where regular cake can do just fine. The decision happened when I was looking at my life and saw all the luxury I can afford but in the end don't need, but I was always saving on things that were somewhat meaningless and didn't make a big difference in the big picture of spending, but where my decision might make a difference for someone else than me. Also I asked myself if things like food that are a treat to myself (I'd be eating bare chicken breast and plain rice all day if the food I ate wasn't enhancing the enjoyment of life) are worth trying to be maximally efficient and compromise in experience and skip the extra chance of feeling good from my decision.
All this sounds quite pretentious and like coming from moral highground, so I'll just tone it down by saying this video sparked my thoughts surrounding vanilla and food, but there's no disagreeing that the artificial vanilla flavouring really is better for baking. What a rant just to agree in the end. But real vanilla beans for homemade vanilla syrup with some other spices is awesome in a cup of coffee. Really suggest trying out a syrup with vanilla and cardamom.
As far as Im aware, there is no such thing as chemists making the exact same molecule of anything. Proportions vary, but technically there is ALWAYS a trace of incompletely processed. I think it depends on the steps needed, but for some steps the FDA literally just has a "good enough for food threshold".
Excellent explanation. Thank you.
IMO, "harvested" vs. "synthesized" would be the best labelling.
Actually, if you want the most cost-effective vanilla extract, you can just make it yourself with a bottle of vodka and some vanilla beans. Just soak the beans in the vodka for a few weeks or months and you get vanilla extract.
You've missed an important point. Vanillin is only ONE molecule that contributes to the flavor of vanilla, and it does not cover all of the flavor complexity of vanilla.
For quite a lot of applications, vanillin alone is probably sufficient to flavor your food, but for some it will produce a very flat and artificial seeming food.
What's more important than knowing chemicals involved is knowing the chemistry involved. Vanilla, when heated to specific temperatures, can lose many of its flavor notes leaving only vanillin behind, however when not heated beyond that point, and not sustained at nearby temperatures for too long, you can taste a noteworthy difference between the vanilla natural, and the pure vanillin.
Its the same reason sugar alcohols and corn syrup don't taste QUITE identical to cane sugar, or why processed sugar and brown sugar taste extremely different.
There are literally _thousands_ of chemicals that contribute to the flavor of something, and a single synthesized chemical is not necessarily sufficient to replace the real grown plant in a recipe... However, it might be.
I'm NOT saying "real farm raised is always better" I'm simply saying that both "natural is better" and "artificial is identical" are completely and utterly false statements and people should stop trying to oversimplify things. Its not as simple as "this chemical is all that matters." Its not as simple as "natural grown is better." They ARE different products, and one of them is inferior in some applications, while being superior in others.
I have an extremely sensitive sense of taste, and the difference between the two is enormous for me. It's definitely more subtle in baked goods than in something like ice cream, and I always assumed it was because you put a lot less in cookies than in vanilla ice cream
Apparently (according to food sci grad students at my uni) I'm a 'super-taster'.
The only real way I know the difference in baked goods is by correlation/bias -eg. cheap supermarket cupcake with a lot of vanilla flavour is probably using synthetic or an expensive cupcake from an upscale place is probably natural.
As far as I can tell; things like the butter/milk fats, sugar and salt matter way more -especially in things like custards.
Too much of natural or synthetic tastes bad but I think people tend to overcompensate and end up overusing synthetic -a drop of either, in a large cup of milk is almost indestigusable to me.
It’s staggeringly annoying how people don’t understand that it doesn’t matter where a molecule comes from; no, your organic, plant derived vitamins aren’t any different from vitamins made in a lab mom
There are physics/chemistry reasons why synthesized compounds can behave entirely differently from biologically produced compounds. Compounds can have multiple non superimpossable positions known as chirality, basically compounds can have multiple different structures in space, similar to how your hands are mirror images of each other and wouldn't fit a glove for the opposite hand. Biological chemical processes will produce the same chirality. However, all chiral positions are created when compounds are synthesized. This slight difference is why some pharmaceutical drugs have adverse side effects, even if they are identical to a natural substance.
Read the ingredients. On a bottle of pure vanilla extract it will say vanilla and alcohol. Imitation vanilla flavoring has a LOOOOOng ingredient list, and it includes propylene glycol. Propylene glycol is used in aircraft de-ice fluid, among other things. I'll just spend the extra and get real, pure vanilla extract.
Why does it matter where glycal is used mahy chemicals are used in many things, glycal is a type of sugar, it's used for de-icing for both it's low freezing point and it's high evaporation point
Recreating flavours is really like playing the lottery. If you have a flavour that is mostly or even fully one molecule( the latter hasn't happened as far as I know if the original is a plant) then recreating it (even if it is a bit complicated) will yield great and probably cheaper results when compared with the real thing. More often than not though, you end up like the people trying to find the flavour of cappuccino. The scientists had such a hard time nailing down what the composition of this flavour is that they used Chomatography. Chromatography is the science of splitting a mixture of things apart so you can perform tests or even just identify the parts. Usually a specialized sensor at the end of the machine would check for a property of the molecule presented to him and you can identify them that way, but this wasn't enough for the scientists. They added a sort of snorkle to the outlet so one of them could smell what the sensor is identifying. They ended up with the weirdest set of smells that make up the capuchino flavour. I sadly don't remember the details of the lecture, so I don't recall what smells they made out, but I am certain that it was all sorts of smells you would not expect to find in foods.
There is a HUGE chemical difference. The vanilla bean has other parts (chemicals) to it and along with being racemic and having bonding parts equal. Plants also produce air, while chemical factories produce poisons and byproducts....
When there's functionally no molecular difference between the two, why bother using the "real" thing?
I learned this vanilla secret a few years back, but my wife and kids insist on buying the extract stuff. I think they have been influenced by all of the cooking shows that laude the "complex flavor" of vanilla. Great video!
No, actually, a lot of people can taste the difference. Dip a bit of fake vanilla extract on your finger and real vanilla extract as well and taste it, the fake shit tastes mild as hell
Thank you for giving me a video to post when people push back when I recommend imitation vanilla. I try to explain to them that it's molecularly identical, but they still think it's from beaver butts and sawdust. I get it if someone likes the flavor of the extra aromatic compounds and alcohol in a fresh food like buttercream. Personally, the artificial has a more pure flavor to me that doesn't mess with the rest of the recipe, and I'm cheap, so I'll stick to the 'fake' stuff.
There are supposedly only about 300 pounds of beaver behind extract (castoreum) harvested in the whole world in a year, most of which goes into perfumes. It seems unlikely to me that it would be worth using it to amp up synthetic vanilla, even if it could.
Even if it _is_ from beaver butts and sawdust... like, who cares? It's chemically pure. A shocking number of chemicals most people eat on a regular basis are made from "sawdust", and everyone drinks water that was someone's pee once.
00:47 this is incorrect. In Their natural habitat they have bees that are large enough to do the pollination. Its only the pollination outside this region that is hand pollinated.
This kinda lines up with what I found over the course of time as well; putting whatever in something you bake is usually alright; haven't found someone who could tell the difference (provided you didn't put too much of whatever concentrated product you used in). If it isn't baked... using a whole vanilla bean makes a huge difference. Biggest difference I notice is with crème diplomate; it just tastes *so* off if I use anything other than a whole vanilla bean.
Would have been cool to talk about how you can make your own extract with the leftover vanilla pods and some liquor. That can make the steep price of beans more palatable for some :D
One trick I've discovered is that vibrations help quicken the extraction. Just put the jar on some vibrating appliance (I used an air purifier) and leave it there for as long as you have, it will extract quicker. If you have an ultrasonic cleaner (designed for cleaning jewelry and such) that will work _really_ well.
@@noob19087 Any movement should do the trick. In chemistry reactions work faster with more mixing of the molecules. So higher surface area, heat (what would not be great for this certain product) and moving the mixture with stirring or shaking
@@SaheeliRai : Since Brownian motion and random kinetic energy are ubiquitous, is it more important to increase surface area (by slicing & dicing) than to add artificial motion?
@@brothermine2292 Both help, of course, but I'd say artificial motion works even better in my opinion. Though I've ever only tried the 2 in combination, so I can't say for sure. I made an oak tincture for wine making that was supposed to take weeks overnight with the vibration trick. I used dice sized pieces that were toasted and crushed with a mortar. In just an hour it was an amber colour and tasted like whiskey, overnight it was almost coffee coloured with a very strong taste.
@@brothermine2292 I love Brownian motion from the cream in my coffee
I have a music shop. The difference between a cheap $100 instrument and one costing thousands of dollars is mostly in the tone. They both play basically the same notes. Many of our customers can literally not hear the difference. They are the lucky ones. They can save a lot of money by buying the cheap ones. BTW, I make my own vanilla extract from vanilla beans and rum, aged for about six months. It's fun and easy to make, and definitely worth the effort. At least to MY tastebuds.
Huh, thanks. That was fascinating. Useful to know, as someone who's always gone for the extract in my baking.
Edmond Albius wasn't "a slave" he was an enslaved horticulturalist.
From my personal experience I can tell the difference between pure vanilla extract and imitation in baking. I had one of my coworkers make me the same thing with h the vanilla being the only difference and it was very apparent which was which. It was blind too so I couldn’t see anything nor did she tell me which was which. That’s just my experience tho
Several years ago America's Test Kitchen did a taste test of vanilla baked into chocolate chip cookies. The cheap, fake vanilla won. It was only $1 for a bottle. People can't tell the difference. You're a money-squandering fool if you buy expensive vanilla. 😂
Or as another cookbook author wrote: "Your kids won't be the least bit impressed by which area of Tahiti or Madagascar your vanilla was grown in. Just use the cheap stuff. They'll never know the difference."
The answer to this video, Vanilla is not just a single compound and has a lot of other compounds and flavors in it. Where Vanillin is the primary flavor, imitation Vanilla is basically just Vanillin with out all the other compounds. Selling imitation Vanilla as not imitation, would be like trying to sell honey as honey flavored syrup. Where I live they are total fine to sell Vanillin (imitation Vanilla) labeled as Vanillin, no extra labeling required.
With that all said, real Vanilla is great and has a bunch of nice flavors to it, but I would only really recommend it for smaller simpler things like whipping cream icings, as it very easy to over power the background flavors or even the vanilla flavor. For things like baking or fillings, I would actually recommend Vanillin due to is stronger flavor (obviously its cheaper) but the stronger flavor means it doesn't get lost in all the other flavors.
If the synthesized vanillin was simply labeled vanillin instead of vanilla, would they still be required to label it artificial?
Unfortunately, since a lot (most) of imitation vanilla products are derived from petrochemicals, there are byproducts within that product that affect my son in a way similar to artificial food dyes. So we have to go with "real" vanilla extract. It's possible that the more naturally derived substitutes (e.g., from wood pulp) he may be able to handle better. But I wouldn't know how to distinguish between the "artificially-artificial" vanilla products and the "naturally-artificial" ones.
This sounds like another situation like the diamond industry, in which they intentionally limit the production of an otherwise plentiful product to maximize profits. Creating a perception of scarcity is enough to get most people to pay a lot for something.
Vanilla has a very distinct, deep taste. Please try vanilla tea. It is worth it.
"Natural", "authentic", and "genuine" all have different meanings in law in the USA. "Artificial" and "imitation" also have different legal meanings here.
"wood that's been burned and boiled" is very similar to the process of barrel aging spirits. The inside of the barrel is charred and then left in contact with liquid for long enough to let the flavors dissolve out.
Thank you for spilling the beans regarding vanilla flavorings!
Great video, I'll definitely follow your advice!
Let's not forget that Edmond Albius got rewarded with not being a slave anymore, and nothing else!
We make our own. We’ve practically quit using straight vanilla and have adopted our recipes to either rum based or bourbon based. We use Kraken 94 proof for the rum and Elijah Craig 94 for the bourbon. Way better than any commercial vanilla.
I don't know why I read the title and thought "oh yeah I know this!!! pure almond extract may be very high in amygdalin which produces cyanide in your body!" and then i realized "oh. vanilla. um yeah expensive and hard and other flavor components and stuff. no poison. okay. yup."
Thank you, Mr. Albius! And thank you, MinuteFood!
Most of the interesting flavor of vanilla extract isn't the vanillin. Yes, it is the flavor that slaps you across the face. But saying imitation vanilla is just as good because it still has vanillin is like saying vodka is a good substitute for single-malt scotch because both have ethanol.
Maybe I could use imitation vanilla for cooking without losing anything. But I'm not dealing with the hassle of having two different liquid vanilla flavorings in my spice cabinet.
The vanilla beans also contain other compounds that impart warm/bitter flavors that complements the vanilla flavor but it’s less pronounced so you don’t taste it as much in baked goods, and you can absolutely taste the difference in cold beverages and ice cream ✨
Considering how difficult vanilla is to get, it's *crazy* to me that it's considered the "basic" flavour in a lot of places. Why did a lot of people suddenly decide that something so hard to get is the "basic" flavour?
I'm pretty sure it's because it became the "basic flavour" after it became cheap to produce.
as the old song says "I like vanilla, it's the finest of the flavours"
Wow videos should be made like this one... so easily expleained and with drawings and all
I should, shouldn't I? But I won't.
You just scientifically explained the results of a video I saw in which a guy did taste tests on several foods and concluded that if it was cooked the real stuff was no different than the fake stuff, but in cold foods the real stuff was better.
A lot of artificial flavors are chemically identical to the things they are trying to imitate. However a descent minority of them are not. They're just something chemists made that happened to be similar to the model flavor. Methyl anthranilate was found from industrial coal tar and someone decided they tasted like grape. Well actually in the 3rd millennium we did find out they were found in grapes, but for the most part in many times a someone said a newly produced chemical kind of tasted like something, the imitation isn't in the model food. So in some cases artificial/imitation flavors are chemically identical to the flavor chemicals in the model food, but other times they aren't. When they are chemically identical, it doesn't make sense to go out of the way for the model when the imitation is easier to make. In the case of imitation vanilla, they are chemically the same and its much easier to make in a lab. When they are chemically different, well the question is what tastes better to you?
I have always bought the beans or the vanilla paste which is the seed pulp, I never use it for baking I don’t like the taste that’s left behind, I only use it in my cold deserts and just maybe in my coffee once in a blue moon. When I make my custard I add vanilla paste to it after the custard has been cooked, it gives a better taste to the custard and I love the look of all the specks in the custard.
God damn it that's not how molecules work
You should do a blind taste test of the two types in cold and warm foods!
Three types were mentioned: artificial vanillin, natural vanillin, and natural vanillin plus the other aromatic molecules found in vanilla beans.
Thank you Edmond!