Aaron Bastani | Conservatives are stuck in the past
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- Опубліковано 10 лис 2024
- "What about 1917?"
All conservatives like Toby Young want to talk about is the past. It's because they have no vision of the future.
/ aaronbastani
/ aaronjohnbastani
/ novaramedia
/ novaramedia
support.novaram...
What Toby means is "The present system works for me and mine, and won't you please leave it alone!"
@MamaSophia " "The present system works for me and mine [...] " - Obviously, he can't just go ahead and simply say that, because it would be the STRONGEST ARGUMENT WHY THE SYSTEM *MUST* CHANGE!...
right wing talking points
- 231 gazillions people died
-vuvuzela
Prediction: This year will be the first year a conservative pundit blames socialism for the deaths in the holocaust.
The issue is that it's very easy to point to an authoritarian government as the cause of 100 million deaths. It's very difficult to attribute deaths to a system that treats them as externalities. Can you work cheaper and more efficiently than a machine? If not you will be priced out of an ever growing number of markets.
I will grant you the number of deaths, but why do you attribute those
100 million deaths to communism? The issue I was trying to point out is
that capitalism should be held just as accountable for its deaths as
people are want to hold communism accountable.
Also, why are you assuming that I, or these people are advocating for an authoritarian government?
So you concede the ground that every death that happens under capitalism happens because of capitalism?
My disagreement here is much simpler. The statement that communism has killed 100 million people is not an argument in itself against communism, unless by that you mean to imply "which is more than capitalism has and we should prefer fewer deaths." And for that to work, you'd have to justify what kinds of deaths are attributable to capitalism and what kinds are attributable to communism.
I am aware of the dangers of authoritarian government. I don't see why the size is important. If the government were so small that it encompasses nobody or so large that it encompasses everybody doesn't seem to have any bearing on the danger. Are you suggesting that certain sizes of government are dangerous somehow?
Conservative daily quest: Venezuela (1/1)
100 million vuvuzela keks
They’ve no argument and resort to Venezuela, Stalin’s Soviet etc
@@abdulrashed9721 his point about communism leaving people in extreme poverty was also untrue, while I'm not a proponent of Stalinism the USSR was the fastest growing economy in history between 1920-1975
That bald headed cunt should know that Venezuela has two thirds of its economy in the private sector not what you would call Socialist.
@Paulo Chan You're not typing this on a laptop made in China by any chance, are you? Because I am - and last time I checked the Chinese Communist Party were still in power there.
Conservative is a politically correct word that we use to describe people who have abhorrent ideologies but are too cowardly to put a name to their abhorrent ideologies.
@Blue Crusader I honestly don't doubt that. But so what? At least I'm fighting for the right things.
@Blue Crusader I suggest you go to Saudi Arabia then, they're way closer to God than we are.
Facts.
That's true. It's a very tepid, sugar-coated word for what they really are. There's another word beginning with C that I'd suggest as a replacement but I think the world's still a bit too conservative for that at the moment.
The 100 million figure comes from the Black Book of Communism which was disowned by most of its own authors because one of them was, in their own words, "obsessed" with getting the figure to 100 million.
didnt they include the holocaust deahts as deaths via comunism. not to mention they ignore the deaths in 3rd countries from capitalist exploitation
@@higuk999 not sure if holocaust deaths were included, but red army and Wehrmacht combat deaths definitely were included...
If Toby could find a way of making money out of people eating their own pets he’d sell it to the world.
He's just opened up a fast food chain in South East Asia called Waggymama.
Think that is already part of capitalism.. sell everything
Love how Toby Young is unable or not willing to engage with Aaron's arguments or ideas.
A.H Man it is futile to argue with people who use the 100 million number because they are arguing in bad faith and do not understand nuance. From my perspective I think Aaron is trying to argue that attempts at communism at the past have had their shortcomings but with the advances in technology now are giving us new opportunities never seen before.
@@memeking8734 well then at least say that theyre arguing in bad faith, dont just sit there like a self-satisfied douche.
@@memeking8734 Its not futile to tell the truth. 80% of world poverty in the last thirty years has been eliminated because of the spectacular growth and distributive wealth mechanism of socialism in China. Bastani was hopeless in letting Young getaway with a blatant lie. If he doesn't want to confront lying ruling class propagandist but just flog his book then he is complicit in the lies. Revolution is a class struggle not technological innovation.
@ I think the idea is to not make a scene and be uninvited from the BBC panels... just stick to making good stand-alone points so as not to alienate anyone.
Toby knows how to strawman.
Toby young talks about the death during Communism. What are about the amount of people that have died the past centuries for the pursuit of profits, billions have died.
Textbook whataboutism.
Indeed, it's unarguable that in the pursuit of socialism and communism several millions have died, and those deaths are tragic, however we should not therefore close our eyes to the far greater ongoing death toll of capitalism.
And therefore we should look to an ideology that also killed millions?
1) Causation != Correlation.
The idea that "socialism leads to authoratarianism" is founded on the causation/correlation falacy. The truth is, that there have always been other contributing factors, eg: violent transition, civil war, and continual economic and military attack from capitalist countries.
Socialism is less of a common-denominator for brutal regimes than the simple #1 cause - too few people with too much power trying to maintain and manage chronic inequality.
2) Capitalism / Colonialism have killed more people than socialism. The British Empire killed 10s of millions in India alone. A million in Ireland - it's own country. The colonisation of America killed 10s (and some claim 100) of millions. Since WWII the US has killed about 20 million in its various military adventures.
130,000 have been killed by Austerity under the latest UK tory govt. In the world today (and tomorrow, and every day), 30,000 people starved to death - not because we don't have the food, but because they don't have the money.
3) Stalinism/Maoism weren't socialist - Lenin himself called the system "State Capitalism". The management structures of capitalism were simply replaced by a new elite. The workers did not own or control the means of production. In Venezueala (which has suffered relentless attack from capitalists both within Venezuela and elsewhere), 80% of businesses (including a relentlessly hostile press) are privately owned.
I have never heard a socialist advocating a recreation of Stalinism. What we are actually talking about is democratising the workplace (eg: Mondragon) and attempting to create a transition to a more abundant and happier society (eg: fully automated luxury communism).
..
The reason the only argument we ever seem to hear against socialism is "ooh, what about Russia?" is that you simply aren't taught enough about socialism to argue against it's actual ideas and tenets... and the reason for that is that they're better ideas and tenets than capitalist ones.
"Ooh what about the past" is the only argument you have - and it's not a very good one.
It's not just "what about Russia?". It's also China, Cambodia, Albania Cuba, it's lead to mass death and oppression universally, there is not a single instance of an implementation of Communism which has not had this result. Other factors are there, but the fact is that the only Communism is the only factor that appears to be constant in each instance. "Capitalism / Colonialism have killed more people than socialism." I doubt it, the number of people killed by Communism regimes ever would certainly be within the 100s of millions. But even if this were true it does not itself provide a positive argument for Communism. It's simply fallacious to say that Communism is good because Capitalism is bad, particularly given Communism's track record. "Stalinism/Maoism weren't socialist - Lenin himself called the system "State Capitalism"". That's obviously factually incorrect, given that Lenin was dead by the time Stalin and Mao had taken power. In the case of the Soviet Union that state was constructed by Lenin himself.
You let Toby Young off far too lightly, record amount of people used Foodbanks in this country last year, how many people were lifted out of the UK last year in the UK ?
@@jonnyo.p.1773 no but they have to prove their homeless or in crisis & when you think the amount of people that have to use them
I agree
The amount of people that really don't care or believe food poverty exists..
The last sentence was the biggest pile of crap I've heard this month
@@GDKLockout You people on the right live in such a sound-proof echo chamber that you never once stop to look at what you're actually asking. What is the measure of success in your question?? There are plenty of countries which embraced socialist ideologies as a result of capitalism failing to meet their needs, and from that point created a much stronger economy than what they had previously. Cuba is a really good example of this, in that before they had castro, there was mass illiteracy, starvation poverty, gross wealth inequity, poor healthcare and living conditions for the majority of citizens, etc. It is only through Cuba ditching capitalism that they have had a reprieve from these things. Now, if youre an absolute imbecile, which you are, and your question is actually "give me a list of the wealthiest socialist countries", then you will be correct and thinking that are few if any at all. In a global capitalist market there are only allowed to be a few wealthy economies, and these are the economies which make it easiest for the businesses there to exploit the citizens of that country.
You would do well to look at your metric of success both for capitalist and socialist economies and for capitalist and socialist states, ignoring neither the nuance of historical context for each country, nor global systems that affect every country regardless of government or economy. When you do that you will see an astounding lack of "success" from the wealthiest countries given just how wealthy and powerful they are. *That* is the argument that's being had here
@@GDKLockout I'm sorry that that happened to your country but also I never said anything about "moving fast." The only thing I said, which I would prefer you stick to addressing in the future rather than rambling on about horseshoe theory etc, is that either your definition for success is myopic/ahistorical, or your definition of success is contextualized but you haven't actually tried to learn anything about socialist/leftists projects. If those things were both false I wouldn't have to explain to you that many countries like Cuba were successful not only by being socialist, but in spite of the capitalist global current trying to quell them. The way you're responding right now is just reactionary.
@@GDKLockout "the global economy is how we feed people." If I held a loaf of bread in my hand and punched your face repeatedly would you say that it was a "good system" so long as some of the bread got in your mouth by the end of it?
@@GDKLockout They don't get rich on their salaries, they et rich by selling their access to the highest bidder.
@@GDKLockout In what ways did Cuba "not work"? Aside from the fairly obvious issue you mentioned, which Castro himself addressed and apologized for before dying, that homosexuals were treated terribly in Cuba. And which Ill remind you was not that outrageous compared to the ways in which homosexuals were actively denied their rights all over the world and murdered/beaten/taken advantage of as a result
Guys guys guys......Venezuela👌😂😂😂
USA USA USA wants its oil or haven't you noticed.
I guess all of people fleeing are faking it right?
@@thomasalvarez6456 Do you know any?
Camden McDonald Yes actually. One girl I knew in my foundation modern history class is from Venezuela she left about four years ago. Her father was a civil servant and HAD to leave. She just hopes her family can go back one day and at least see if it’s better and rebuild
@@thomasalvarez6456 so your friends farther was a wealthy government employed worker that already knew English woow
They always refer to these millions of people lifted out of poverty. How does that benefit even the working poor in the UK let alone those struggling to get work?
that's exactly what communists always refer too so
Groundbreaking right-wing analysis as always...
I thought the lady who spoke towards the end made some good points. I would have preferred to see a conversation between her an Aaron.
Just because a system has proven effective in the past, doesn't mean it is necessarily sustainable for the future. It's perfectly reasonable to acknowledge the rise in living standards afforded by capitalism (or at least one manifestation of it) but at the same time question its sustainability and whether or not it is going to continue to deliver the same results. I think a lot of the arguments for "free market" capitalism (which we have never had btw) are based on ideological grounds and as a direct (and false) comparison to specific authoritarian strains of communism, rather than a pragmatic assessment.
Whenever anybody claims that something is working, you must always ask "Working for whom?"
It's a shame to learn that this happened to Ade Edmondson.
A hundred million, according to a book admitted to be made up of the most liberal estimates in every single scenario, as admitted by the authors.
Toby Young, who is a proponent of eugenics, has an obsession with ‘low IQ’ (something on his mind?) and got an education from a clerical error, just makes me laugh with his bluster and buffoonish ignorance.
BTW how many have been killed by Capitalism ???
@@GDKLockout AHH, so if we tell you that the USSR, China and Cambodia weren't communist societies, it's a no true Scotsman argument, but when we point to people starving, dying of vaccine preventable illnesses or drinking contaminated water because they lack money it's not capitalism?
@@GDKLockout They didn't vote in a communist government??? If that's your grasp of history and geopolitics then I don't know why you're speaking so authoritatively.
Less. Trust us we don`t love the idolizing of material goods either.
I just cant get enough of all this, love your work NM!!!
He was trying so hard to sound intellectually relevant whilst resorting to the conservative buzzword crib sheet he almost blew a blood vessel (Venezuela! 100m dead because communism!). Truly the level of debate on these things that the country deserves.
Yeah. That was anti-SJW UA-camr level intellect right there. A bit embarassing for somebody appearing on national television
“Say the line, Bart”
“Well just look at Venezuela”
The point is, robot Socialism and advances in medicine can provide a surplus that can benefit all. It is truly slave labor, without the need for justice for the slaves. Governments should invest taxpayer money in robotic systems, which should be utilized for the public good.
This guy goes from Mao to Jeremy Corbyn. "It'S nEvEr WoRkEd!!1!1!" Because capitalism has been going so well?
@@KC-yd5kj exactly! Spot on.
Might as well make it government policy that leopards are not to have spots
Dude, why did you let him get away with that Venezuela crap? He clearly has no proper understanding of their economic situation but didn't get pulled up at all
It would be nice if you took Toby's lies to task. We all know it's bollocks but to the average person watching at him the 100mil dead and Venezuela myths are convincing arguments.
I despise watching the utterly compromised beeb, but you made your point extremely well, despite open hostility and very ragged, lazy arguments against you.
Offering no answers to future problems. I would say he's sleepwalking into crisis but I suspect Toby Young is well aware and doesn't care because it affects him very little.
Hey ive got a candidate in mind for when we open the gulags folks
For his state endorsed theft of public resources if nothing else
Counter-point: perhaps there were 100 million Toby Youngs during the 20th century?
oh dear. You would have thought that Toby Young would realise that the USSR were state capitalist.
i wonder what stocks and shares Toby Young has?
British folks out there having polite political debate with red cups.
Being stuck in the past is kinda the idea of being a conservative. As the saying goes, "Conservatives want to continue to try bad ideas from the past. Liberals want to create new ones."
China is mostly the reason for decreased poverty and the poverty threshold is not incremented with global inflation
Toby Young spouting the usual. Free market economic model of the last 40 years has not worked for many. It's time to look at ways of changing that.
How old are you?
Toby: A hundred million!
The idea that the modern UK would suffer from the same problems as feudal china just blows my mind
Conveniently ignoring the fact that Chávez lifted literally half the population of Venezuela OUT of poverty before petty US sanctions caused the economy to collapse. Also conveniently ignoring the 100 million people who die of hunger every 10 years under the global free market, easily beating the exaggerated communist death toll.
Higher productivity and overall wealth globally has nothing to do with capitalism per se but rather scientific and hence technological progress. Under communism this technical progress would continue, but its friuts would be shared by all rather than benefitting overwhelmingly a tiny minority as is the case under capitalism.
The average Russian did not receive these benefits. The average person in China lives on roughly 500 dollars. A perfect plan may sound great at first but like all great plans they falter when put into practice.
Why do we carry on a economic system that we fully know will crash every decade or so?
Toby "The day I stopped believing in the friendship myth" Young
*100milliondeadvuvuzelaleftistrekt*
The only argument the right knows.
The point about the 100 million people being lifted out of poverty is a very poor one. It was literally stated that when it is introduced it works but it can't last.
Yeah I mean free market capitalism did a great job of spreading freedom and democracy in South America in the 50s and 60s. Also, I love how they always use the same examples, namely pre industrial economies rapidly attempting to modernise into communism despite Marx himself specifically stating that that wouldn't work.
The history of capitalism is littered with dead bodies , every system has it's failings. The one argument against communism is it goes against human nature. So slavery is natural? So pairing off half the world to feed the other half is natural? You glorify the few to justify the rest and call it success. Aaron's argument holds a lot of weight, if we don't change we remain static. The precious few on top get richer, change would come about not because we're full of altruistic intentions but because it's inevitable.
Aaron is the marx of this decade as in he's the hottest dude in European political philosophy atm.
The other person debating is Miatta Fahnbulleh from the New Economics Foundation.
When it comes to rightwingers I believe they come in two flavors conmen and suckers.
Toby Young couldn’t even get 10 people to attend his own Stag week, why on Earth is he considered an expert on anything?
Also study's that show people being "lifted out of poverty" have more to do with changing definitions of poverty than with anything else, moreover being technically out of poverty but still having shit living standards is not good either.
Ye, think a winter coat and two pairs of shoes is one measurement in Ireland lol.
While he dismisses poverty and deaths it causes
I swear capitalists act like zillions of people don't die because of capitalism. Imagine having no original thought ever
Please pull him up on his bullshit on Venezuela. It's unbearable that he's allowed to lie like that.
"Capitalism raises people out of poverty."
Pretty sure I read an article the other day pointing out just how much richer the 1% have gotten in the last few years vs. how much poorer the bottom 50% have gotten by comparison. Something ain't working~!
"We brought capitalism to India; isn't that an example of everyone benefiting?"
Oh... I forgot there are people in the UK who are still proud of what Britain did to India... Maybe give him a copy of Shashi Tharoor’s book?
I thought the main problem in Venezuela was the fact they are so reliant on money from the sale of their oil. And then the price of oil dropped dramatically, which the Venezuelan government had no control over. So this is what has caused most of their problems, nothing to do with having a socialist government, who wanted to make their society fairer, better for everyone. They wanted to redistribute the wealth, and use this money to provide better public services, make things better for the majority
2:58 well if you look at who has actually raised most people out of poverty in recent years, it's China. And i know there's debate on whether it's communist or capitalist (but i think we'd all agree it's still different from the UK or US significantly), but i doubt the people supporting free markets would be ready to adopt the Chinese model even when it's demonstrably been pretty good at lifting people out of poverty and by the standards this dude set, it's winning the UK in terms of economics and productivity by a huge margin. If the point is "This system has gotten people out of poverty, it increases productivity and economic growth and therefore we should continue using it and adopt it in more countries" you should be supporting the Chinese model. My point being: Economics alone is not enough, the question of which system we should support is also about ethics and what people find valuable in life and reducing it to economics misses the point (he wouldn't support the Chinese model because he finds it unethical, not because he finds it unproductive or lacking in some economic aspects)
"Trickle-down" is a lie, but saying it isn't makes money for people like Toby Young. Social democracy is where it's at. It's not a choice between capitalism and communism, it's a choice between "free" market capitalism and business tempered by humanity and common sense.
Right on Brother Aaron Bastani
Conservatives are stuck in the past. Labour is just stuck!
Can anyone tell me the name of the woman that was talking after aaron and Toby? Thx
funny how capitalist always complain about shortfalls of so called socialism but never talked about the massive shortfalls of capitalism we've seen in the past century from its very inception.
capitalism could be argued for the cause of slavery as we know it. to the industrial revolution and all the horrors that were done to workers before governments got involved(by the government i mean the people. with strick and protest), capitalism can also be blamed for most of the wars we currently face and on the coming catastrophe = automation that's coming.
they also fail to think ahead as to the effect of such automation if allowed to go unfettered.
an example would be if all aspect of life is automated and left in the hands of the market with no oversight, no one would be able to afford whatever they are selling because no one would have a job. assuming A.I is allowed to continue to grow to the point where machines can auto repair themselves, then there would be no need for maintenance workers.
No work, no pay, no sales, no profit, no business .
Aaron Bastani, when the bring up the Russian and Polish famines, retort with "Did capitalism cause the Irish Potatoe Famine or the 20 famines of India?"
Toby Young is such a melt.
Capitalism is socialism for the rich.
Drops the C word....🔥boom🔥
Young was let off lightly and many right wing pundits would see that excerpt as a resounding victory for capitalism. The left needs to develop snappy bullet point sentences that can help to explain complex socialist ideology and ideas in a way that is convincing and compelling.
Agree.. always let away with enforcing the status quo arguments
Let's be honest about why people like capitalism. They don't believe it's universally beneficial or equitable, they like that it's exclusive. They like knowing they've got what others don't have access to.
At the most benign end of that; maybe they like to show off their apple smart watch, or their nice new car, or their house, but that scale of inequality also means that whilst they have access to a safe, comfortable home (that perhaps they even own), others don't; when they can afford a decent, high-quality, varied diet, others can't; and when they get paid enough that they can afford to go away, or to spend less time at work, others are stressed, working their fingers to the bone, just to remain in poverty because over 50% of their wage goes straight to their landlords' pocket.
I'd say if you're comfortable with a system like that it either says a lot about the content of your character, or highlights a total lack of imagination.
The free market pundit guy honestly sounds like religious fanatic.I knew all the words he would say before he said them. And he says them with this tone that implies there's some sort of power to them some sort of meaning but none of the words connect with reality or make any sense. "We need to set the market free," yeah we did that, we did all of you people's market based solutions and it left us with all the problems we have now.
How many people have been killed by Capitalism and Neoliberalism Toby? In the UK, in the last few years, just to keep it simple. I question the use of the word 'Communism', simply because it has negative connotations. Maybe the semantics could move on in order to present a new vision of social justice without the baggage.
But but but... Hillary and emails? Benghazi!?!
The framing of this as "is advocating communism responsible?" is, at the very least, intellectually dishonest.
Love your smug face through this 😂
Wow. This is a comments page has been given the Stalinist treatment. Not a single anti Communist voice on here.
Great work comrades.!
so i'm gonna have to eat my cat whiskers then by the sound of it
Why do capitalists lie about the benefits of capitalism all the time and why do they always get away with it? Has capitalism REALLY lifted so many out of poverty? Seems to me poverty increases the more committed a country is to capitalism.
100 million people were lifted out poverty because we change the poverty line.
Just because some system has done a lot of good, doesn't mean you can't make a better system. Also, Toby is comparing apples to oranges or, since he's comparing one system that's called communist with another very different system called communism, he's calling all orange fruits oranges.
Communism didn't fail because sharing stuff doesn't work. It failed cos of a complex mix of specific reasons. There are market ideas that fail too but none of these guys seem to care.
Uhh, why doesn't he just say it's not real communism. Not in the sense that the guy was criticising dumbly.
Those past Communist regimes are more fascist like. And fully automated communism is more of a funny apitheth
If you care about Venezuela so much, intervene and help. I'm not sure that any right winger does, they'd rather have that talking point. Lets just change the word communism to freedom and support would skyrocket
Why does Aaron Bastani not talk about capitalism’s role in destroying the revolutionary project, causing civil war, and forcing revolutionary governments to have to a waste gigantic amount of resources in fighting for their survival rather than using them to build or rebuild their societies to the way they want they wanted to? Venezuela, Cuba, Russia in 1917, Vietnam!?!?!? Bastani needs to put revolution in the context of the world capitalist class’ desperate and violent attempts at destroying revolutions wherever they occur. Having said that, FFS talk about the gains of the Cuban, Vietnamese and Venezuelan attempts at building their fairer more just societies. There have been immense gains socially, environmentally and in health and education. Don’t let these right wing ideologues say bullshit without calling them out on it. It’s why we have to be anti-imperialist!
Great thumbnail 🤣🤣🤣
Young claimed that capitalism had brought one billion people out of poverty. Actually about 80 per cent of that number is because of socialism in the Peoples Republic of China. China has lifted more people out of poverty than anywhere else in the world: its per capita income in increased fivefold between 1990 and 2000, from $200 to $1,000. Between 2000 and 2010, per capita income also rose by the same rate, from $1,000 to $5,000, moving China into the ranks of middle-income countries. Between 1990 and 2005, China’s progress accounted for more than three-quarters of global poverty reduction and is the reason why the world reached the UN millennium development goal of halving extreme poverty. Young just lied and Bastani was pathetic in failing to defend the recent record of socialism. If Toby Young is the best that the capitalist class can vomit up then it really is on its last legs.
Not even a socialist but I'm sick of conservatives citing Venezuela as an example of socialism when it's not.
Funny how Aaron has actual well thought out arguments whether you agree or not, whereas pseudointellectual Toby Young can only be up with 'but Venzuela'
there's no such thing as a free markets; the government has to step-in to keep people alive and creates markets with subsidies (reduces risk of loss)
The Soviet Union wasn't communist. Workers' control of the means of production was non-existent in the SU. It was the least communist/socialist place in the world.
Oh no not VUVUZELA 😨😨😨
Isn't he that Graham guy from Jeremy Kyle??
HUNDRED MILLION HUNDRED MILLION. god i wish aaron woudlve told him the truth about that number and shut him down
Nice punchline at the end.
why make a book to convince those who aren't already like that unless you're just trying to profit
His ideas won't come about if he thinks them to himself
More like "What about 1919-1924?"
I hope Bastani crushed that authoritarian strawman later in this.
I'm an admirer of Aaron Bastani's seemingly limitless patience...
This is the same guy who supports "progressive eugenics"...
Why where the people of India in that extreme poverty. What is the global death toll of free market capitalism. What free market is this that US military power must always insure that global resources are available to it and its allies. How do we calculate the deaths caused by US intervention in socialist states. The market isn't free if a socialist nation can't sell its products.
The man mentions the Free Enterprise System in India and examples were millions of peoples are raised out of poverty. That may be so, yet in India we do not see the massive inequalities and a comparative minority making the wealth as oligarchs and a vast majority are pushed further into poverty. It is not as simplistic as he imagines.
But what about all the people slipping in to poverty in the uk because of unregulated banking?
Muh, Venezuela
End their own what? Did Toby say parents?