I am an American rugby player (former), coach (collegiate/amateur), and fan aged 55 years. Last year I was so excited about the Netflix Six Nations program. I posted it on my social media and promoted it as, "A behind the scenes look at what makes 'our' game so great." What a huge disappointment. I did not even finish watching the series. The program revealed nothing about what makes our game great. The camaraderie, they physicality, the tradition, they raw emotion of the game, none of it was present. It was like expecting a steak dinner and being served canned vegetable soup. Bollocks!
@selwynarends1888 the best rugby documentary made ever. Raw and real open book and insights on what is going on behind closed doors. Where as the AB's documentary and 6N documentary follow the players watching them eat and a bit of training nothing in depth like chasing the sun 1 and 2. Looking forward to nr3
Its not just Netflix .... the total strangulation of coverage of the last World Cup was, in my opinion, vastly more damaging to Rugby as a World Sport. So many content creators unable to use clips from the World Cup. I have a question for everyone reading this: How many actual memories of rugby moments do you have from that event? I dont have any
World Rugby is clueless - I was at the annual awards in Monaco - No live steam they didn’t even invite the UA-camrs really shocking old school thinking even the newly appointed head of World Rugby didn’t show up.
Watched the bloody Tour de France this year off the back of their netflix show, the drama of a daft cycle race captured me binge season 2 when it dropped sat cheering on some Dutch bloke on because his story in the show brought me in
Chasing The Sun was 💯 Pure, honest and unadulterated access to the players, tactics and the changing room environments; not Joe Average taking his dog for a stroll. They could heed a few lessons from that documentary..
Terrible. Why would Netflix bother? The dinosaurs just did not give them the access that they needed. The only way forward in my opinion is making something of the U20s - but give FULL access, selection meetings, back stories about where these kids were spotted, highlight the dreams and aspirations, their stories through U16, U18 etc. Honestly, the England UA-cam guys do a better job.
Start with Living with the Lions as a template. Nearly 30 years on, it's still the best rugby documentary. Whether it was John Bentley with the camera or the aftermath of Will Greenwoods horrendous situation and his mum effectively telling him off and everything else in between , it was a great watch. Warts and all.
I thought the players came across well. I get the lack of access. The contract dispute with Wales at the time is an example. What did we get Mr and Mrs Gatland hand in hand wandering through the daffodils.
I found it tedious, but my American friends watched the whole season and said they learned about the sport. At least they are looking forward to hosting the World Cup in 2031.
_[ ... south african comment starter pack loading ... ]_ 1. "as a south african" 2. 4 world cups 3. chasing the sun 1 4. chasing the sun 2 5. whats a "dupont"? never heard of her 6. i dont really have a comment, i just wanted to remind eveyone. kthnxby 😁
Living with the Lions should maybe be the template. It was very early amongst sports documentaries and it was fabulous. Rugby has gone backwards since then.
The football players did not ask what was in it for them when the Football league was changed to the Premiership and Alan Sugar pushed all that money into it. They rubbed their hands together knowing that within a few years all that money was going to end up in their pockets. Players and coaches fault 100% if they did not want it. Dumb arse players will never make big money if they act like idiots.
Jim nailed it. Why does rugby miss the target all the time. I was so excited to see that on Netflix, but it was just so flat, there was a lack of emotion and it felt nothing like the game i know.
I mentioned this after Gavin Henson’s interview the suits are too precious over their egos and “Legacies” the committees are too remote we need rugby to be entertainment at all levels.
I know it's different but, the All Blacks and our Super Rugby teams allow for documentaries to be shot around them. The Documentary series that the ABs do every year atm, is awesome and allows us to see trainings, and sidelines etc.
@ONYX-365 in the uk cricket has same challenges as rugby, financial/lack of school participation/declining player numbers, etc. cricket is now behind a paywall if want to watch on tv. currently the decline has accelerated and thought is that lack of tv coverage has helped turn it into a niche sport. hope helps
Basically all of the bits that people might be interested in seeing the teams didn’t want to show and didn’t don’t was just full of filler material. It therefore wasn’t very good so not a lot of people watched and Netflix who as the guys said don’t really need this pulled the plug. That’s the long and short of it really.
It honestly didn't feel like the Full Contact guys really had a feel or full understanding of rugby. A lot of the time it felt like they wanted to force rugby into a Kardashian format. It's so bloody stupid. I'm sure there's 100's comments saying they should've looked at Chasing the Sun and Two Sides for inspiration. And rightfully so. Rugby is such a conservative sport, why didn't Netflix just work with each team's content teams, because everyone has content teams now, then each team can moderate their own content. Having said that, you're not going to give away any state secrets because all teams are so meticulously analysed now that it doesn't actually matter, and that is on top of the fact that the show goes to air a year later...
Very few folks in rugby (if anyone) were complaining about it until it got cancelled. More shit needed to be said about how crap the first few episodes were when they first came out.
Agreed. Too much gushing over what was a very mediocre series. Came from a good place as people were trying to promote the game instead of bashing it down but yeah needed to be called out so that S2 would be different. As it is, I’m expecting something just as bland for the next instalment.
@@notenoughstones3873 well if they've already canned a potential season 3 before season 2 is even fully in the wild, they must have got really poor pre-screening results when they had test audiences. i'm not holding out for anything great to be honest.
Agree with you guys on all the documentary stuff. The game needs to open up to showcase the incredible athletes and characters that are in our sport and their diverse paths to how they have got where they are. But I strongly do not believe putting the 6 Nations (or in fact any international game / series) behind a paywall. There is a glaring case study with what happened to England cricket and Australian rugby union when the games were placed behind a paywall. I think we all agree, they are f*ed and there is now a work happening to fix them. Rugby union is too niche to start creating obstacles for people to watch and generate potential interest in playing. Not often I disgree with both of you, but I think you lads are a little off with this one
Love the content lads. Long comment here. All content behind a paywall is the nail in the coffin of rugby. The club and intl game have 2 different solution. For club game - free to air keeps the numbers up. Subscription TV brings $$$ and is for the avid rugby fan where they get league and European games. Free to Air - biggest game of the wknd on a regular slot. The regular slot is key. For the intl game, must stay free to air but split the coverage between broadcasters like we do in Ireland. TV3 and RTE share the broadcasting rights. One shows the Irish game, the others shows the other two games, and it swaps back and forth every wknd. Works great. Games don't clash anyway. Netflix could show the 6N live is the rest of the world no? Would create a 4rd revenue stream to grow.
Massive opportunity missed. However the timing of the show one year after event is less than ideal! Sticking six nations behind a pay wall is nuts. Cricket back in 2005 was talked about widely. It was on free to air TV. Now my 11 year old vaguely likes cricket. He could barely name a player He is all over six nations, put that behind a pay wall the interest dies along with the sport. The governments protected list should cover more than grand national, Wimbledon and multiple football matches
Viewing figures and participation numbers in cricket are up though. The issue may not be the paywall but who gets it, if its TNT not much of an issue as a lot of English rugby fans already have that for the Prem. If Sky brought again not much of an issue for many as it is a huge base and could arguably have better numbers as it will have a premium appearance rather than a stick it on cause its free. Over Christmas the prem had its highest viewer numbers ever so I don't think selling the rights is much of an issue. The BBC is massively down on funding so why would they try to compete with a private company. Although they have just brought the snooker so maybe that has a better cost to viewer ratio.
I watch every minute of six nations every year, love it. The Netflix series was painful to watch, so poorly directed & barely gave an insight into the true nature of the game. Wasted opportunity for sure!
If Netflix aired the 6 Nations, I have a horrible feeling the commentary would be desperately trying to be understandable to Americans. "He's like the Tom Brady of rugby right?", "He's like their Quarter-back", "He goes for a field goal". I would have to watch the game on mute, or find the Welsh commentary, which I don't understand.
Ultimately though Netflix is a staple for nearly all people 25 and under which is the demographic we need to watch the sport as it’s dying at lower age demographic. We need to find a way to put the sport infront of the next generation and in the correct way! Silly little minor issues like commentary are void when the sport is dying we need to change the way we market the sport and how we put it infront of new fans
We can all kick off and vent our frustration but ultimately it again comes down to terrible management of the sport by the same old out of touch amateur era obsessed management and board members 🤷♂️ the sport is dying on their watch and if it goes another 5-10 years it’s not ever coming back properly. Shut the players up, shut everyone up and make everyone do as they’re told to toe the line for projects like this, also embrace it and build on it. You can tell no one involved in the sport ultimately wanted Netflix there which is embarrassing and ridiculous
Netflix will not take on a sport to broadcast u less they can make money from it. The domestic audiences in europe probably all have Netflix accounts already or 95% of them do. So no real revenue can be made in this market Then there’s international audiences that Netflix might want to attract into utilising a Netflix subscription - is.broadcasting rugby likely to unlock many more sign ups for them? Probably not. Goodey made a great point saying Rugby needs Netflix more than Netflix needs rugby. The Six nations operators would probably have to pay Netflix to broadcast it given how little return is in it for Netflix.
Could not agree more with Jim's comments and position on this, our game is shooting itself in the foot (bit like Steve Borthwick's selection decisions!) at every turn at the moment. Hard to see how it will change though given the complex management/ownership structure wihin the game. DEEPLY frustrating.
we need to embrace the physicality and brutality, not water it down. thats what people want to see, the gladiator aspect of rugby. Rugby league does this a lot better and it blows my mind that rugby league isnt bigger in europe..
There was a brilliant show on Netflix I still think it’s there called All or Nothing which covered various sports and teams and it was excellent! Maybe that’s a starting point rather focus on one team that actually wants to expose rugby for its positive impact! Even if it’s a club team. There is also a show on You tube called THE SEASON that follows 1st team school rugby and is like 8 short episodes giving great insight into behind the scenes, the training, the motivation, the goals, the players and where they come from what it means to them etc. and then each SEASON is a different team … that could also be something they could look at doing just focus on coaches and teams that are keen to get rugby out there and as much exposure as possible!
Totally agree. I was bored by it. We had gatland and his wife going for some poxy walk and a chat. It was dull, not inspiring for young kids. Just..... Blah. Which is not what you want.
Some perfectly balanced arguments lads.. Jim was more animated over the Netflix program than Scotland beaten in a Six Nations match. Never watched the programme so I can’t comment.
Rugby needs more superstars. And it isn’t ever going to happen without full access or a bigger platform than today. Massive miss with Rugby World Cup Coming to America 🇺🇸
Anyone know what the viewing figures were and how they compared to other similar sport doc show figures? There was also chat that Netflix are seeing higher returns in the live events
Lads it was crap. Terribly produced. No real access. Zero big personalities brought to the fore. None of the core folks that were wheeled in front of the camera have any charisma. There was no drama. There was no expanding on the huge physicality the game. It’s like they got interns from the production of Drive To Survive or All Or Nothing and gave them a few weeks to make something
To be fair, even the best documentary producers in the world can’t magically make gold when all they have to work with is a pile of stinking turd. The raw material was rubbish to begin with and that is all on the unions, team management and players.
@@notenoughstones3873 Yeah this is true. But they could have delved into so much of the history of the teams. rivalries etc . This alone would help to drive more hype. they could have wheeled in more of the past players to tell sthe stories of their games against certain teams / nations and like all other versions of this (drive to survive etc) they could have hammed up , (aka over stated, over exaggerated) for the sake of drama and interest. Filming a few players going for cups of coffee - surely there was more they could have done than this even with all the limitations that were supposedly put on the producers It also doesn't help that the sport has no real super stars which is somewhat evident in the fact that no one outside the sport can name any players. Eddie Hearn talked about this in the past and he is 100% spot on. Big personalities are needed because there are none. I never watch football or F1 but can list off plenty of superstars. Finn russell is a maestro, Andrew porter is a beast but i have zero interest in listening to them speak.
@ that would have made it not crap sure but it would still have been mediocre regardless. Those things only add flavour but the actual meat was missing. And that meat is what the fans want to see - what goes on behind the scenes.
Great idea that I was very happy to see Rugby shown off to more but the picked such odds moments to show off the game I don't understand why they didn't show the games more?? Give us locker room talk at halftime, give us the anthems at the start, the big tackles, tries, penalties, cards and big plays but Jesus nobody found the chatting to the camera about speculation and "oh ya big game this weekend" but then not showing it. They should have renewed it but shot it differently. BIG shame
Unless you're an England fan, stay away from full contact. Loved season 1 but this year is completely lopsided. Funny feeling they didn't get the same access this year as last with the French and Irish.
F1 is is nothing compared to the Six Nations. Netflix is now on season 493 of Drive to Survive. Rugby needs to take a look at itself. Obviously it won't
Ironic really but I've tried to get in touch with both Jim and Goodey about coming on a podcast I'm involved with, and I've not had a reply. Appreciate it's not 100% the same but access is access.
Dumb basing this off the success of the first season. We all know there were difficulties filming it that were supposedly fixed for season two, so we could have an amazing second season but no follow up.
Trust me there are no secret tactics or moves that needed to be kept hidden for the WC. Rugby analysts are very, very good these days and can easily identify patterns of play, strategies, set moves etc once the game has been played. Any “secret” moves, tactics etc used in 6N games would already identified and analysed by opposition teams long before the WC anyway so that is not a valid excuse these days. 20 years ago maybe but not today.
Northern hemisphere entitlement, nothing new. Players, coaches, team management, media teams, committee members etc. with an air of entitlement. Cant do this, wont allow access to that, bullshit. They had Netflix, for TWO seasons and they stuffed it. I am South African, obviously I know about the 6 Nations, but I don't know the history, the players, the rivalries that well, I thought this show would give me a better insight, what an epic fail.
Love the pod but I think Goodey should leave his far right politics out of it. Why's he going on about UK foreign aid and putting asylum seekers in hotels on a rugby podcast? Has Goodey considered that the UK pays a lot in foreign aid because the UK has contributed towards a lot of destruction in the world? Stick to rugby Goodey, your politics are dog shite
We pay foreign aid to countries with space programs and that won't take their criminals back even though they're dual citizens. Stick your weak, champagne Socialist politics, where it doesn't shine.
Lets be honest.... rugby has failed so far as a professional sport..... as a welshman that hurts but its fact...... english teams going bust....falling viewing figures.... i mean lets count.....probably only 2000 professional playets in the world....hardly a big carrot 😘
Prime did a cricket documentary called The Test. It was a warts and all look at Australian Cricket team during Ashes Test. A great documentary. It is a pity that rugby is so backwards in their approach to sporting documentaries. It show with their continuous law changes and their failure to actually police the current laws. Such as second row feeds, walking off the mark during penalty and free kicks. Just to name two.
@@notenoughstones3873 Oh yes of course. I'm talking from the point of view of someone playing rugby for fun, not money. Sadly my lack of top level ability means dealing with press has never been an issue.
Watched half of the first episode and fell asleep. I love the Six Nations and the history but that series doesn't truly show what the Six Nations is about....
You can bring in the best director and production team in the world but if they don’t get given access behind the scenes, then it will always be a mediocre series at best. The fault lies squarely on the unions, team management and players.
Quick question. Yeah I agree it was shite, and won't be watching the next. But for those of you who've watched other Netflix sports docs, how many have gone more than two seasons? Cos I know for other types of production, Netflix are cutting them shorter and shorter, as even with quality shows, interest levels drop.
I’m really conflicted on this. I hear the point Jim is making about accepting reality of an increasingly globalised and commercial landscape. And therefore rugby has to compete for eyeballs. However: - The players do get a say, because they are the game and they came before the fans. Because you are good at rugby, doesn’t mean you’re obliged to have cameras in your home, at your workplace and in your changing rooms. These are private places where you should be free to speak your mind, not to mention be naked! - Emphasising rugbys points of difference (physical contact, quirky characters) is also a fair point. But one of rugby’s unique points of difference is also its humility, team first ethic and not seeking the limelight. I admire Jim’s positivity and forward thinking to grow the came. I think what he is rubbing up against is that: In order to grow and expand the game, we have to fundamentally change it. And if you fundamentally change something, it’s no longer what it was. So it died anyway..
Other Rugby documentaries have done perfectly well with full access such as the Lions, Springboks, NZ so I’m not sure this reasoning is sound. And as professional players, I’m sorry but I think they are obliged to participate in promoting the sport.
@@NTL578 fair enough and as I say I see both sides. But actually a lot of people (players and fans) don’t want or care about any of the guff and fluff around players personal lives. They just want to watch the game and enjoy it! Not a fashionable view on podcasts, but it’s true and a more widely held view in the real world than you may think.
@@notenoughstones3873 Lions 97 had fairly thorough access. But a lot of it was simply player led and so much of it wouldn’t actually be acceptable and politically correct now. That’s part of the problem. “Full access” would get most of the players in jail these days. Rugby locker rooms are not like HR approved workplaces or mainstream media. So you’re effectively asking players to: 1. give full access- and get in trouble. Or 2. give modified access and lie? So what’s the point if it’s not real?
@rw9854 That's totally fair. So then don't watch it. That isn't who a Netflix documentary would be for then is it. The players, well what makes rugby players different from every other sport?
It was a terrible, laboured, fake as shit show. No wonder it was cancelled. However, I am not convinced it could be done better. The number of people involved in the competition makes it too hard to focus.
I don't pay for a TV licence! Go online and register no receiving equipment is present at the property and that's it - done it for 10years now and nobody has ever been around (you have to do it every year)
The format was awful, bouncing around games. Not chronological, but so bended to suit a narrative around the individuals they focussed on. By focussing on individuals they missed the point of rugby, a TEAM game. Follow one team the whole tournament.
Sanitised Rubbish and boring ....English .Rugby is becoming a faceless game .You ask the average guy in the street to name a current international..he would struggle .Its got a hugely inflated opinion of itself. End of the day a big minority sport .
I agree with that totally. The one advantage I guess was that it was a single nation so logistically easier but I totally wish they had even just taken 50% of CTS and it would have been successful.
@@ConorOLeary-rl4bsagreed one nation is easier but it was also the full access that was the real difference. The coaches meetings, team selection meetings, deep insights into tactics around the scrum, lineout, kicking etc followed up by how this played out in the actual games was what made it really good. This is what engages fans. Back stories on players etc merely adds flavour but you need to first have the meat before you can flavour it.
Chasing the sun has set the standard for inside access to a rugby team
I am an American rugby player (former), coach (collegiate/amateur), and fan aged 55 years. Last year I was so excited about the Netflix Six Nations program. I posted it on my social media and promoted it as, "A behind the scenes look at what makes 'our' game so great." What a huge disappointment. I did not even finish watching the series. The program revealed nothing about what makes our game great. The camaraderie, they physicality, the tradition, they raw emotion of the game, none of it was present. It was like expecting a steak dinner and being served canned vegetable soup. Bollocks!
Go watch Chasing the Sun. South African rugby documentary.
@@selwynarends1888 where can I watch it in the UK?
@selwynarends1888 the best rugby documentary made ever. Raw and real open book and insights on what is going on behind closed doors. Where as the AB's documentary and 6N documentary follow the players watching them eat and a bit of training nothing in depth like chasing the sun 1 and 2. Looking forward to nr3
@@lizzyhanahoe4197rugby pass Tv app is where I watched season 1. Can’t find season 2
Rugbypasstv... Sign up for free and both Chasing the Sun 1 and 2 should be there 😊@@lizzyhanahoe4197
Jim sounds like Rassie - 'You are not the most important thing in rugby, rugby is the most important thing in rugby'
Spot on Jim. I couldn’t believe I was bored by it.
Its not just Netflix .... the total strangulation of coverage of the last World Cup was, in my opinion, vastly more damaging to Rugby as a World Sport. So many content creators unable to use clips from the World Cup. I have a question for everyone reading this: How many actual memories of rugby moments do you have from that event? I dont have any
Squidge burner account?😂
@southpaw9195 i used to be a fan of his Channel.
I have a few but your point is still valid. 23 WC is already in the attic collecting cobwebs.
@@MrRugbylaneahh fair enough
World Rugby is clueless - I was at the annual awards in Monaco - No live steam they didn’t even invite the UA-camrs really shocking old school thinking even the newly appointed head of World Rugby didn’t show up.
Watched the bloody Tour de France this year off the back of their netflix show, the drama of a daft cycle race captured me binge season 2 when it dropped sat cheering on some Dutch bloke on because his story in the show brought me in
Chasing The Sun was 💯 Pure, honest and unadulterated access to the players, tactics and the changing room environments; not Joe Average taking his dog for a stroll.
They could heed a few lessons from that documentary..
Terrible. Why would Netflix bother? The dinosaurs just did not give them the access that they needed. The only way forward in my opinion is making something of the U20s - but give FULL access, selection meetings, back stories about where these kids were spotted, highlight the dreams and aspirations, their stories through U16, U18 etc. Honestly, the England UA-cam guys do a better job.
Start with Living with the Lions as a template. Nearly 30 years on, it's still the best rugby documentary. Whether it was John Bentley with the camera or the aftermath of Will Greenwoods horrendous situation and his mum effectively telling him off and everything else in between , it was a great watch. Warts and all.
They hardly showed a full play. All that flashing 2 & 3 seconds slow motion clips. Might as well have been thumbnails with sound effects.
Always love the content lads.
Can I ask where's the videos full version of your podcast ?
I thought the players came across well. I get the lack of access. The contract dispute with Wales at the time is an example. What did we get Mr and Mrs Gatland hand in hand wandering through the daffodils.
I found it tedious, but my American friends watched the whole season and said they learned about the sport. At least they are looking forward to hosting the World Cup in 2031.
The timing of the show was wrong for me. For me it doesn't help if it releases a week before the next competition starts. It's old news.
_[ ... south african comment starter pack loading ... ]_
1. "as a south african"
2. 4 world cups
3. chasing the sun 1
4. chasing the sun 2
5. whats a "dupont"? never heard of her
6. i dont really have a comment, i just wanted to remind eveyone.
kthnxby 😁
Living with the Lions should maybe be the template. It was very early amongst sports documentaries and it was fabulous. Rugby has gone backwards since then.
The football players did not ask what was in it for them when the Football league was changed to the Premiership and Alan Sugar pushed all that money into it. They rubbed their hands together knowing that within a few years all that money was going to end up in their pockets. Players and coaches fault 100% if they did not want it. Dumb arse players will never make big money if they act like idiots.
Jim nailed it. Why does rugby miss the target all the time. I was so excited to see that on Netflix, but it was just so flat, there was a lack of emotion and it felt nothing like the game i know.
I mentioned this after Gavin Henson’s interview the suits are too precious over their egos and “Legacies” the committees are too remote we need rugby to be entertainment at all levels.
I know it's different but, the All Blacks and our Super Rugby teams allow for documentaries to be shot around them. The Documentary series that the ABs do every year atm, is awesome and allows us to see trainings, and sidelines etc.
paywall - check out the demise of cricket....
Could you explain that for us not cricket fans?
@ONYX-365 in the uk cricket has same challenges as rugby, financial/lack of school participation/declining player numbers, etc. cricket is now behind a paywall if want to watch on tv. currently the decline has accelerated and thought is that lack of tv coverage has helped turn it into a niche sport. hope helps
Goode can’t wait to have a pop at Borthwick. Especially considering England gave more access for S1 of Full Contact than most other players.
Yeah, I think Steve's pretty stiff and some of the criticism is valid, but sometimes it gets a bit personal and that's not on really.
Basically all of the bits that people might be interested in seeing the teams didn’t want to show and didn’t don’t was just full of filler material. It therefore wasn’t very good so not a lot of people watched and Netflix who as the guys said don’t really need this pulled the plug. That’s the long and short of it really.
It honestly didn't feel like the Full Contact guys really had a feel or full understanding of rugby. A lot of the time it felt like they wanted to force rugby into a Kardashian format. It's so bloody stupid.
I'm sure there's 100's comments saying they should've looked at Chasing the Sun and Two Sides for inspiration. And rightfully so. Rugby is such a conservative sport, why didn't Netflix just work with each team's content teams, because everyone has content teams now, then each team can moderate their own content.
Having said that, you're not going to give away any state secrets because all teams are so meticulously analysed now that it doesn't actually matter, and that is on top of the fact that the show goes to air a year later...
Very few folks in rugby (if anyone) were complaining about it until it got cancelled.
More shit needed to be said about how crap the first few episodes were when they first came out.
Agreed. Too much gushing over what was a very mediocre series. Came from a good place as people were trying to promote the game instead of bashing it down but yeah needed to be called out so that S2 would be different. As it is, I’m expecting something just as bland for the next instalment.
@@notenoughstones3873 well if they've already canned a potential season 3 before season 2 is even fully in the wild, they must have got really poor pre-screening results when they had test audiences.
i'm not holding out for anything great to be honest.
A Scot and an English man talking about watching the Late Late show.
My god, times have changed. 😂
Agree with you guys on all the documentary stuff. The game needs to open up to showcase the incredible athletes and characters that are in our sport and their diverse paths to how they have got where they are.
But
I strongly do not believe putting the 6 Nations (or in fact any international game / series) behind a paywall.
There is a glaring case study with what happened to England cricket and Australian rugby union when the games were placed behind a paywall. I think we all agree, they are f*ed and there is now a work happening to fix them.
Rugby union is too niche to start creating obstacles for people to watch and generate potential interest in playing.
Not often I disgree with both of you, but I think you lads are a little off with this one
Love the content lads. Long comment here.
All content behind a paywall is the nail in the coffin of rugby. The club and intl game have 2 different solution. For club game - free to air keeps the numbers up. Subscription TV brings $$$ and is for the avid rugby fan where they get league and European games.
Free to Air - biggest game of the wknd on a regular slot. The regular slot is key.
For the intl game, must stay free to air but split the coverage between broadcasters like we do in Ireland. TV3 and RTE share the broadcasting rights. One shows the Irish game, the others shows the other two games, and it swaps back and forth every wknd. Works great. Games don't clash anyway.
Netflix could show the 6N live is the rest of the world no? Would create a 4rd revenue stream to grow.
Massive opportunity missed. However the timing of the show one year after event is less than ideal!
Sticking six nations behind a pay wall is nuts. Cricket back in 2005 was talked about widely. It was on free to air TV.
Now my 11 year old vaguely likes cricket. He could barely name a player
He is all over six nations, put that behind a pay wall the interest dies along with the sport.
The governments protected list should cover more than grand national, Wimbledon and multiple football matches
Viewing figures and participation numbers in cricket are up though. The issue may not be the paywall but who gets it, if its TNT not much of an issue as a lot of English rugby fans already have that for the Prem. If Sky brought again not much of an issue for many as it is a huge base and could arguably have better numbers as it will have a premium appearance rather than a stick it on cause its free. Over Christmas the prem had its highest viewer numbers ever so I don't think selling the rights is much of an issue. The BBC is massively down on funding so why would they try to compete with a private company. Although they have just brought the snooker so maybe that has a better cost to viewer ratio.
All of the documentaries are of the previous years event. Only the NFL now has one that comes out as the season progressed.
Love Goodey. I’m not naming names, ok it’s Steve Borthwick 😂
I watch every minute of six nations every year, love it.
The Netflix series was painful to watch, so poorly directed & barely gave an insight into the true nature of the game.
Wasted opportunity for sure!
If Netflix aired the 6 Nations, I have a horrible feeling the commentary would be desperately trying to be understandable to Americans. "He's like the Tom Brady of rugby right?", "He's like their Quarter-back", "He goes for a field goal". I would have to watch the game on mute, or find the Welsh commentary, which I don't understand.
Ultimately though Netflix is a staple for nearly all people 25 and under which is the demographic we need to watch the sport as it’s dying at lower age demographic. We need to find a way to put the sport infront of the next generation and in the correct way! Silly little minor issues like commentary are void when the sport is dying we need to change the way we market the sport and how we put it infront of new fans
We can all kick off and vent our frustration but ultimately it again comes down to terrible management of the sport by the same old out of touch amateur era obsessed management and board members 🤷♂️ the sport is dying on their watch and if it goes another 5-10 years it’s not ever coming back properly. Shut the players up, shut everyone up and make everyone do as they’re told to toe the line for projects like this, also embrace it and build on it. You can tell no one involved in the sport ultimately wanted Netflix there which is embarrassing and ridiculous
Totally agree. And yes Andy Farrell looked like the future where rugby should be going with his slot on the Irish late show
*Coming soon!* - The real housewives of Harlequins & The secret diaries of Saracens 💅🏻
Netflix will not take on a sport to broadcast u less they can make money from it.
The domestic audiences in europe probably all have Netflix accounts already or 95% of them do. So no real revenue can be made in this market
Then there’s international audiences that Netflix might want to attract into utilising a Netflix subscription - is.broadcasting rugby likely to unlock many more sign ups for them? Probably not.
Goodey made a great point saying Rugby needs Netflix more than Netflix needs rugby. The Six nations operators would probably have to pay Netflix to broadcast it given how little return is in it for Netflix.
Could not agree more with Jim's comments and position on this, our game is shooting itself in the foot (bit like Steve Borthwick's selection decisions!) at every turn at the moment. Hard to see how it will change though given the complex management/ownership structure wihin the game. DEEPLY frustrating.
He's picked a good team this week I feel.
we need to embrace the physicality and brutality, not water it down. thats what people want to see, the gladiator aspect of rugby. Rugby league does this a lot better and it blows my mind that rugby league isnt bigger in europe..
There was a brilliant show on Netflix I still think it’s there called All or Nothing which covered various sports and teams and it was excellent! Maybe that’s a starting point rather focus on one team that actually wants to expose rugby for its positive impact! Even if it’s a club team. There is also a show on You tube called THE SEASON that follows 1st team school rugby and is like 8 short episodes giving great insight into behind the scenes, the training, the motivation, the goals, the players and where they come from what it means to them etc. and then each SEASON is a different team … that could also be something they could look at doing just focus on coaches and teams that are keen to get rugby out there and as much exposure as possible!
Totally agree. I was bored by it. We had gatland and his wife going for some poxy walk and a chat. It was dull, not inspiring for young kids. Just..... Blah. Which is not what you want.
The format ruined it by focusing on one player per team. Should have stuck to the usual format by focusing on one team per year
Professional sport run by amateurs unfortunately.Until the old guard in union are removed it doesn’t really change
Some perfectly balanced arguments lads.. Jim was more animated over the Netflix program than Scotland beaten in a Six Nations match. Never watched the programme so I can’t comment.
Nailed it Jim. Couldn’t agree more.
*Careful what you wish for..* We don't want Hollyoaks actors that just happen to play rugby ~80 minutes a week 👀
Rugby needs more superstars. And it isn’t ever going to happen without full access or a bigger platform than today. Massive miss with Rugby World Cup
Coming to America 🇺🇸
Good debate lads!
Not one word about Chasing the Sun???? For shame.
Anyone know what the viewing figures were and how they compared to other similar sport doc show figures? There was also chat that Netflix are seeing higher returns in the live events
Lads it was crap.
Terribly produced. No real access. Zero big personalities brought to the fore. None of the core folks that were wheeled in front of the camera have any charisma. There was no drama. There was no expanding on the huge physicality the game.
It’s like they got interns from the production of Drive To Survive or All Or Nothing and gave them a few weeks to make something
To be fair, even the best documentary producers in the world can’t magically make gold when all they have to work with is a pile of stinking turd. The raw material was rubbish to begin with and that is all on the unions, team management and players.
@@notenoughstones3873 Yeah this is true. But they could have delved into so much of the history of the teams. rivalries etc . This alone would help to drive more hype. they could have wheeled in more of the past players to tell sthe stories of their games against certain teams / nations and like all other versions of this (drive to survive etc) they could have hammed up , (aka over stated, over exaggerated) for the sake of drama and interest.
Filming a few players going for cups of coffee - surely there was more they could have done than this even with all the limitations that were supposedly put on the producers
It also doesn't help that the sport has no real super stars which is somewhat evident in the fact that no one outside the sport can name any players. Eddie Hearn talked about this in the past and he is 100% spot on. Big personalities are needed because there are none.
I never watch football or F1 but can list off plenty of superstars. Finn russell is a maestro, Andrew porter is a beast but i have zero interest in listening to them speak.
@ that would have made it not crap sure but it would still have been mediocre regardless. Those things only add flavour but the actual meat was missing. And that meat is what the fans want to see - what goes on behind the scenes.
Great idea that I was very happy to see Rugby shown off to more but the picked such odds moments to show off the game I don't understand why they didn't show the games more?? Give us locker room talk at halftime, give us the anthems at the start, the big tackles, tries, penalties, cards and big plays but Jesus nobody found the chatting to the camera about speculation and "oh ya big game this weekend" but then not showing it. They should have renewed it but shot it differently. BIG shame
imagine if the Netflix 6 nations could be narrated like Chaseing the sun 1 and 2
Unless you're an England fan, stay away from full contact. Loved season 1 but this year is completely lopsided. Funny feeling they didn't get the same access this year as last with the French and Irish.
F1 is is nothing compared to the Six Nations. Netflix is now on season 493 of Drive to Survive. Rugby needs to take a look at itself. Obviously it won't
Ironic really but I've tried to get in touch with both Jim and Goodey about coming on a podcast I'm involved with, and I've not had a reply.
Appreciate it's not 100% the same but access is access.
What's the podcast called?
Off menu@@NTL578
Dumb basing this off the success of the first season. We all know there were difficulties filming it that were supposedly fixed for season two, so we could have an amazing second season but no follow up.
Season one was just before the World Cup. If I was a coach or senior player I would have told Netflix to get out of the meetings. Can’t claim them.
Why?
Trust me there are no secret tactics or moves that needed to be kept hidden for the WC. Rugby analysts are very, very good these days and can easily identify patterns of play, strategies, set moves etc once the game has been played. Any “secret” moves, tactics etc used in 6N games would already identified and analysed by opposition teams long before the WC anyway so that is not a valid excuse these days. 20 years ago maybe but not today.
Speak to Harry about how he got polo made…
Sorry, couldn’t resist 🇿🇦
name the heavy weight boxing champ. Exactly, no one knows or cares 2 decades after Don king put it behind a paywall.
Usyk.. everyone knows that
It seems like such a missed opportunity to just focus on a team for a season and their campaign. 6 seasons, or 3 if you want.
Northern hemisphere entitlement, nothing new. Players, coaches, team management, media teams, committee members etc. with an air of entitlement. Cant do this, wont allow access to that, bullshit. They had Netflix, for TWO seasons and they stuffed it. I am South African, obviously I know about the 6 Nations, but I don't know the history, the players, the rivalries that well, I thought this show would give me a better insight, what an epic fail.
“Well theirs drama”
😂😂😂
Love the pod but I think Goodey should leave his far right politics out of it. Why's he going on about UK foreign aid and putting asylum seekers in hotels on a rugby podcast? Has Goodey considered that the UK pays a lot in foreign aid because the UK has contributed towards a lot of destruction in the world? Stick to rugby Goodey, your politics are dog shite
We pay foreign aid to countries with space programs and that won't take their criminals back even though they're dual citizens. Stick your weak, champagne Socialist politics, where it doesn't shine.
I thought the Netflix series was dull. So boring and jumped around too much.
Lets be honest.... rugby has failed so far as a professional sport..... as a welshman that hurts but its fact...... english teams going bust....falling viewing figures.... i mean lets count.....probably only 2000 professional playets in the world....hardly a big carrot 😘
Not gonna lie I haven’t even watched the first season.
The marketing was absolutely shite.
Six nations would be better if they played an extra game between 1st and 2nd team as a decider
Why not a match between 6 nations and rugby championship winner? Better maybe?
Supersport should license or sell chasing the sun to netflix
Why release it 2 days before the 6Ns starts.
Rugby needs to become 100 professional
Prime did a cricket documentary called The Test. It was a warts and all look at Australian Cricket team during Ashes Test. A great documentary.
It is a pity that rugby is so backwards in their approach to sporting documentaries. It show with their continuous law changes and their failure to actually police the current laws. Such as second row feeds, walking off the mark during penalty and free kicks. Just to name two.
Rugby has been dominated by coaches relying on the rapid execution of predefined sequences of functions. Audiences want relationships, not robots
So true. It was a monumentally rubbish series. Dull as…
They do get a say though. Nextflix were paying shit money to the unions so you'll get a shit final product which it was.
2nd season can still save it. If more people watch it...
As a player I would do the bare minimum for a fly on the wall show. I get Jim's point but wouldnt play ball personally.
Why?
@@NTL578 Because I'm not someone who would enjoy cameras following me everywhere.
@@dougclark9921that’s fair but then that same player can’t complain when pay cuts etc happen because the sport isn’t growing🤷♂️
@@notenoughstones3873 Oh yes of course. I'm talking from the point of view of someone playing rugby for fun, not money. Sadly my lack of top level ability means dealing with press has never been an issue.
Full contact was shit, end of
Gutting… could have been the start of a revolution
Rugby championship is a good netflix deal.😊
Amazon Prime Season 3?
Watched half of the first episode and fell asleep. I love the Six Nations and the history but that series doesn't truly show what the Six Nations is about....
Netflix is cool,unfortunately Rugby is not at the moment.
Change the director and way it is made instead of cancelling
You can bring in the best director and production team in the world but if they don’t get given access behind the scenes, then it will always be a mediocre series at best. The fault lies squarely on the unions, team management and players.
Quick question. Yeah I agree it was shite, and won't be watching the next.
But for those of you who've watched other Netflix sports docs, how many have gone more than two seasons?
Cos I know for other types of production, Netflix are cutting them shorter and shorter, as even with quality shows, interest levels drop.
I love rugby but it was so cringe. I turned it off half way through episode 1
I’m really conflicted on this. I hear the point Jim is making about accepting reality of an increasingly globalised and commercial landscape. And therefore rugby has to compete for eyeballs.
However:
- The players do get a say, because they are the game and they came before the fans. Because you are good at rugby, doesn’t mean you’re obliged to have cameras in your home, at your workplace and in your changing rooms. These are private places where you should be free to speak your mind, not to mention be naked!
- Emphasising rugbys points of difference (physical contact, quirky characters) is also a fair point. But one of rugby’s unique points of difference is also its humility, team first ethic and not seeking the limelight.
I admire Jim’s positivity and forward thinking to grow the came. I think what he is rubbing up against is that:
In order to grow and expand the game, we have to fundamentally change it. And if you fundamentally change something, it’s no longer what it was. So it died anyway..
So why can every other sport accept that but rugby players can't? We want to hear them speak their mind. That's the point !
Other Rugby documentaries have done perfectly well with full access such as the Lions, Springboks, NZ so I’m not sure this reasoning is sound. And as professional players, I’m sorry but I think they are obliged to participate in promoting the sport.
@@NTL578 fair enough and as I say I see both sides.
But actually a lot of people (players and fans) don’t want or care about any of the guff and fluff around players personal lives. They just want to watch the game and enjoy it!
Not a fashionable view on podcasts, but it’s true and a more widely held view in the real world than you may think.
@@notenoughstones3873
Lions 97 had fairly thorough access. But a lot of it was simply player led and so much of it wouldn’t actually be acceptable and politically correct now.
That’s part of the problem. “Full access” would get most of the players in jail these days. Rugby locker rooms are not like HR approved workplaces or mainstream media.
So you’re effectively asking players to:
1. give full access- and get in trouble.
Or
2. give modified access and lie?
So what’s the point if it’s not real?
@rw9854 That's totally fair. So then don't watch it. That isn't who a Netflix documentary would be for then is it. The players, well what makes rugby players different from every other sport?
It was a terrible, laboured, fake as shit show. No wonder it was cancelled. However, I am not convinced it could be done better. The number of people involved in the competition makes it too hard to focus.
Love the 6 nations hated the Netflix series.
I don't pay for a TV licence! Go online and register no receiving equipment is present at the property and that's it - done it for 10years now and nobody has ever been around (you have to do it every year)
The format was awful, bouncing around games. Not chronological, but so bended to suit a narrative around the individuals they focussed on. By focussing on individuals they missed the point of rugby, a TEAM game. Follow one team the whole tournament.
Rugby away from Amazon and oligarchs. Great!
Rugby needs a docuseries like this gem from RTE in 2007 ua-cam.com/video/jcVv-xFNPuI/v-deo.htmlsi=j1kAAUG6AxZKTcjb
Bang on proper shame
Sanitised Rubbish and boring ....English .Rugby is becoming a faceless game .You ask the average guy in the street to name a current international..he would struggle .Its got a hugely inflated opinion of itself. End of the day a big minority sport .
Well maybe look how SA do rugby documentaries once again we are the best🤣
I agree with that totally. The one advantage I guess was that it was a single nation so logistically easier but I totally wish they had even just taken 50% of CTS and it would have been successful.
@@ConorOLeary-rl4bsagreed one nation is easier but it was also the full access that was the real difference. The coaches meetings, team selection meetings, deep insights into tactics around the scrum, lineout, kicking etc followed up by how this played out in the actual games was what made it really good. This is what engages fans. Back stories on players etc merely adds flavour but you need to first have the meat before you can flavour it.
Season 1 was crap. No access
I watched the first one. There was no emotion - they should put chasing the sun onto Netflix. Now that’s feeling
Watched 2, got bored. Wrong people running rugby. I get more access to players every weekend at Stade Pierre Fabre.