Oxalic Acid Fogging with Master Beekeeper Mike Cullen - Beekeeping @ Mantel Farm
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- Опубліковано 25 лип 2024
- Josh joins Master beekeeper Mike Cullen for his final oxalic acid vaping treatment of his own hives using a fogger. This isn't a formally recognised method but Mike tells us about how he has come to find this method and why he favours it over the other methods he has tried and tested.
It is worth mentioning that vaping should be applied when the brood is at its minimum and applied over three to four weeks to treat any mites that may have been inside capped brood.
The fogger solution is 30 grams of oxalic acid to 100 millilitres of pure alcohol gently heated until clear.
Mike has been keeping honeybees since 1972 and these days manages multiple apiaries, each with between 5 and 8 colonies. He runs our regular courses in Beekeeping, from Beginners courses and Experience days to specialist subjects such as Swarm Prevention and control, and Queen Rearing.
He is the ex-chairman and current President of the Hastings & Rother Beekeeping Association. (H&R BKA), and represents the division on the Sussex Beekeeping Executive Committee. Furthermore, he is a member of the BBKA EXAMINATION BOARD and an examiner for the BBKA Basic and General Husbandry examinations.
Chapter
00:00 - Intro
00:25 - Mike Introduces Himself
01:35 - Favoured Method
02:16 -Oxalic Acid Trickle Treatment
07:51 - Vaping Explained
10:04 - Traditional Vaping Method
14:34 - Fogger Method Explained
19:48 - Mixing Oxalic Acid In Alcohol
23:23 - Getting The Fogger Going
24:31 - Using The Fogger
28:27 - Conclusion
#mantelfarm #oxalicacid #BBKA
Here in Western New York, I have been using the Varomorus Oxalic Fogger purchased from The Ukraine, successfully for 4 years now. I watch others struggle with dribbling and vaporizing and rag methods whilst commenting on the incredible ease of use of my unit. No one seems to bee listening. Glad to see you're on the correct path too! I recommend the application method wholeheartedly. The cost is such that I bought two units, in case one fails on a medication day.
Thanks for that information. It is quite an efficient method of treatment and does appear to be quite effective.
This is my favorite method of treatment for my bees
Thank you very much for this informative practical video. I have just bought a vaporizer from Ukraine it took 3 weeks to get here arrived with comprehensive instructions and it works a treat.. They recommend 25 grams per 100 ml I use distilled water and adjust the ph to 4.00 Thanks
That's great news. Glad it is working well for you.
I used to use that very same fogger. BUT mine had a problem with the trigger pump and required me to pull the fogger nozzle out and reset the trigger then refog. one time I did that when I reset the fogger then replaced it back into the hole when that happened the hive burst into flames and was a big disaster. When it worked perfectly I liked it and it worked well i cleaned it after every use. but since then I use the electric spoon for fear of blowing my bees up. but I can definitely agree this method takes way more time with the heat spoon. so if you have this fogger be careful and don't put the fogger back into the hole even after one spray.
Hi Nathan. Thanks for letting us know your experience with one of these foggers. Most definitely don't want to set fire to the bees! It is a quick method but, for those with only a few hives, it is most likely better to use the method you're now using.
Josh
Foggers don't seem quite so easy to get hold of nowadays, there was one on ebay in the UK otherwise they seem to come from the EU which brings its own issues. For a few hives the gas vap works but for the guy doing our association apiary witha lot of hives the fogger is easy and fast. Pleased to see you using a mask no doubt with the correct filters, so many bee keepers dont bother but oxalic acid fumes can be very dangerous if they get in your lungs. Thanks for an jnteresting video.
Hi Alan,
I think Mike may have ordered his fogger from the US.
Definitely used the correct mask. Neither of us want that in our lungs! Definitely got to be vigilant when it comes to handling such substances and vaporising them.
I agree with you about having a few hives and doing the regular sublimation vaping. I think most of us are doing it as part of a hobby and it isn't a great deal of time with only a few hives. I think Mike may have ordered his fogger from the US.
Josh
Look for Varomorus Foggers online. I recommend!!
Fredrick Dunn has a YT video of what goes on inside the hive after he injects OA into it. He has an observation hive.
Hi Mick, could you tell me how the fogger fairs out. I'm looking to get 1 myself. Time is of the essence as you know. I am delighted to actually see a master keeper is using this method. I'd love too get you on aZoom chat. I'm living in Ireland/ Dublin. And I have been saying foggers have to be a better option.
Just so you are aware you can stop the powder forming by using an emulifier - lecithin powder or capsule. I haven't done this yet but I have watch an American beekeeper explain this method...I would love to hear your views. Kind regards Eddie.
Hi Eddie,
I have forwarded your reply to Mike.
Josh.
@@MantelFarm y
@@linvalblagrove4513 ?
Amazing video, thanks a lot. Is it oxalic acid dehydrate or just oxalic acid?
Can we treat in this way at high temperatures
How effective is the fogging treatment? I have a Fogger . I just want to do what’s best
Hi Maggie,
The fogging treatment is pretty good from what I can tell. I personally haven't done this treatment, but Mike appears to have success with it.
Josh
Hi, I had vape my bee's this time of year which is a necessity, however have been looking for alternatives and have seen on a beekeeping supplies site a product called oxalic acid strips, not sure how they are used but they seem to be a varroa treatment.
Do you have any experience with these?
Thank you for all of your excellent videos 🐝🐝
Hey, I haven't used the strips so can't comment much on them. I am seeing Roger tomorrow and I will try to remember to ask him whether he has any knowledge on this. If not, I can ask Mike Cullen and see if he can shed any light on these. May be something to review or trial in the future.
Josh
@@MantelFarm thank you for your response 🐝
Hi,
I have managed to ask Mike about this particular method and he had the following to say:
"I've not had experience of this treatment, but it sounds like something that relies on direct contact with the bees, and that gives me concern. The reason for this is that all other treatments that use Oxalic acid go to great lengths to ensure that the strength of acid actually in contact with the bees does not exceed 3.5% acid. This is because above this strength has been proven to cause a much higher mortality in the bee population. So, if this treatment involves direct contact with the Oxalic acid crystals, I would be most reluctant to try it. Also, unlike trickle treatments and vaping that have all been tested and approved, this new one doesn't appear to have gone through any official trials.
Having already used vaping, I would be more inclined to recommend an alternative approved non-Oxalic acid treatment as part of a "integrated pest management program". Ideally before the supers go on again in the spring."
@@MantelFarm thanks for your reply,
The spring treatments which are always need in my area, are not always clear ie temperature dependant.
So I'll just have to do 3 vapes 5 days apart.
Pity those strips are not legal or safe as it would be a quick and less disturbing to the bee's
Thanks again for your information and videos 🐝
Sorry I've only just seen this reply.
Yeah, I think the vaping is probably the best method if you're thinking of using the oxalic acid.
Other treatments are much more reliant on warmer temperatures. Though, some argue that the temperature of the hive inside could be high enough that they may work. Like most things, it really does depend.
Not sure if you've ever tried MAQ strips. I believe these are formic acid and I have used them with some success before. These are required to be on the hive for 7 days.
As Mike says in his video, it is important to vary your treatments over the seasons so that resistance isn't an issue.
Josh.
I am a bit confused on the mixing of your alcohol and oxalic before the edit. You had 100ml of alcohol which only filled about a third of the jar. After edit, the jar was full. Was more alcohol needed for the 30g of oxalic than was put into the beaker?
Hi..what the right weather temperature to treat by ocxalic acid by this way please
.
I do believe that Mike mentions weather conditions in the video. I don't believe there is an upper temperature limitation but it does need to be above freezing (32F). It is better if it isn't too windy and fairly settled.
Hope this helps.
@@MantelFarm thank you very much.I am from syria and temperature now 32c can i do that without harm the bee
Best regards
I seem to recall being taught it was best when we had a very low temperature for 3 weeks the idea being that the queen wouldn't be in lay and capped brood would have emerged so there'd be a good chance all varroa would be on the bees not in brood and you would only have to do once. If the temperature wasn't that low then you'd have to do three times to try and get the varroa as it came out.
@@SurreyAlan Hi Alan,
This is spot on: low temperatures & short days mean far less brood and , therefore, vaping or treating at this time is much more effective. You are always treating, as far as I understand, the phoretic mites with such treatments as this. I don't know whether the temperature in the south of England gets low enough for all brood rearing to stop completely. It has been noticed in recent years that bees are more frequently flying / foraging during the coldest months than not at all. This may be different farther north in the UK.
I am familiar through my healthcare work, with cold foggers.
Since COVID we use them to decontaminate awkward spaces, and are easy and safe to use in comparison to the hot one you have shown.
We use hypochlorous acid which I believe is used in pest control too; and I wonder if that chemical had been researched
Do you know, or think, a cold fogger could be used with oxalic acid?
Hi Mark,
Thanks for your comment. I can put this to Mike, but I imagine that it needs to be heated to sublimate the oxalic acid. Mike may know a bit more about this option.
I have no idea if these two acids will work together to produce the desired fog of Oxalic acid vapour.
Also it would seem to be a "once started it continues until full consumed" process. So, not a start stop start stop process necessary to move from hive to hive.
Anyway, it would need to be carefully tried and tested by the vetenary labs to ensure that it doesn't cause adverse effects to the bees. Remember the health and safety aspect of this treatment!
Mind you, it's out of the box ideas like this that sometimes yield the golden nugget!
Cheers,
Mike
@@MantelFarm Found this discussion on an old post from a bee keeping forum. And it seems cold fogging ,oxalic is possible.
I have been reading the chatter on the oxalic acid vaporizers - especially the one from Canada requiring the battery and the heated pan. I have learned a great deal. I have LOTS of beehives and am looking for a faster method of treating with the oxalic acid. I have purchased a cold fog unit that puts out a lot of fog in a short time. I have just started experimenting with it. I diluted the oxalic acid 1pound to 2 gallons of water and fogged into the entrance for a count of 10. Before fogging, I took samples to obtain an approximate mite infestation level for each of six hives by brushing about 100 bees into a jar with some alcohol and then rinsing the bees through a double sieve Dadant honey filter. Only one hive was found to have mites (a 15% mite to bee ratio). I am going to wait 10 days to check my sticky boards for mites after the fogging treatment.
I cannot find any research work or other beekeepers using any methods other than the heat vaporization...which seems impractical to me for thousands of hives.
A German company has a unit that goes on top of the hive that looks very cool, but is still following the heated vapor principle. (www.alfranseder.de/)
Hi Mark,
Thanks for this information. I'm rather interested in this method, if it is possible. Not sure whether it would be affordable or practical for hobbyist beekeepers, but I imagine there will be a fair amount of interest in this.
I have forwarded your comment on to Mike to see whether he has anything he'd like to add or comment on. I'm sure it will be of interest to him.
Josh
No. OA to easily crystalizes. But that is just my opinion.
can i do the treatment while supers are on?
I don't believe you can use this treatment when you have honey supers on. There are other treatments such as formic acid that can be used during the honey harvest.
@@MantelFarm
thank you so much for the quick reply.. do you have a video for the formic acid method?
@@adamsonright2120 Presently we don't. I don't think it is featured in any of our videos this year but I do believe we have used it before at the farm apiary.
MAQ strips - Mite Away Quick strips are the UK version. Not sure about other countries. They are strips that go onto the top of the brood and can be used with supers on. Though, unless it is absolutely necesarry to treat them for varroa, then I would wait until you've taken the supers off.
Icing sugar is fairly harmless if shaken onto the brood frames to encourage grooming. I do believe you can use this. You could dust them with icing sugar and keep the supers off for a few hours and then return them if worried about the sugars going up into the super. The idea is to force them to groom themselves.
Are you seeing signs that point to varroa being a big issue now?
Most treatments are meant to be added without supers so their dosages are often without supers on.
Josh
Yes FDA approved the use of OA with supers on.
Was there ever a alcohol wash done after this treatment to see how effective it was?!?
I don't believe Mike did a wash after this treatment.
In the uk buy law you are only allowed 2 treatments per year and it must be anti-bioaxal
the rules also state vaporisation by electric which is a bit silly
i am surprised a master beekeeper is not familiar with these rules
Hi Ian,
I have forwarded this point to Mike to see if he has any more information on this point.
I did have a quick look online to see whether I could find more on this point. If you have any links that would be relevant and help us check this point, that would be very much appreciated.
Hi Ian,
Further to your comment regarding treatments and having spoken to Mike about this topic, there isn't any particular law on the number of treatments given in any one year/season. The only advice or requirement is that all treatments, especially prescribed treatments, are recorded with the batch number on your hive record sheets in case of any issues and so as to make sure , when selling honey, that these treatments were not being used in conjunction with honey supers.
I've never come across a 2 treatments a year law, if there was it would be on Bee Base. I wouldn't want to but in a year you might use MAQS, Apivar and Oxalic acid (maybe 3 times). I would agree the only licensed treatment would be api-bioxal but I rather think many will use pure oxalic acid rather than very pricey api-bioxal which is oxalic with some fillers, the only real difference the manufacturers paid the massive fees to get the licence.
I started beekeeping few years ago
And never had to treat for mites
I have 9 hives and never seen one mite
I wouldn’t want to use any chemicals on bees
I would agree with the use of chemicals being an issue, but we do need to control mites to some degree as in the UK there can be many issues with Varroa and other diseases transferred by these mites.
I must confess, I have never used the acid Mike used in his video. Personally I tend to use icing sugar to force grooming of the hives around brood breaks or I use formic acid to reduce the population a couple of times at most each year. I don't use these lightly and sometimes won't if I believe the hive is in a good condition and I'm not seeing a large drop and or the bees are healthy and there are no other issues present.
This year, I have not seen any issues with Varroa in my own colonies and they are all doing exceptionally well.
I think everyone has different ways of keeping their bees and all are absolutely fine so long as they remain healthy and happy.
Josh
your bees most certainly have the mites buddy.
ProVap 220v ok!!! This is not good.