Most of the criticism I see online of safety tools comes from people that haven't even read them. I'm glad you went to the effort of actually reading a consent form and considering the context of use.
Millennial here - started playing in the 90s. I think consent establishes a level of comfort in this artistic collaboration, that you can be pretty sure the outlandish stuff you'll get up to probably ring l won't bother anyone at the table in a serious way. And the point of a checklist is just to make sure you don't miss anything. I get the people responding saying they don't want to do it so formally, but for me I'm liable to forget a detail here or there and just my luck that will be someone's ick or trigger and I'll feel bad about it later. We're all there for a good weird time after all.
The problem with some groups or DMs insisting on just having "traditional values" and using "common sense" is that those things vary wildly and what one person assumes to be acceptable to include in a recreational activity may not be acceptable at all to someone else. The hobby is transitioning from a boys club with a very narrow range of demographics to something much more diverse and inclusive, and what the average Gen X cishet white guy thinks is good traditional values and common sense shouldn't be assumed to be shared. Tools like this can be useful in turning ambiguity into specificity.
Being honest with your players and having a mutually respectful 'session zero' type session is key here - that way as a GM you can lay out the expectations in your world and informed consent can happen mutually - ok it doesn't always work that way - and is easier to type words about it on the internet than to achieve at the gaming 'table' whether it be face to face or online. Those that don't want to participate from that knowledge can then leave if they want to. I like how you make that plain while acknowledging that there are variety of players/GMs that are from different generations as to when they started in the hobby. I saw a video from another channel that pointed out that 'Consent Checklists'/Safety Tools' were how he played and DM'ed his classic D&D games from the start and quibbled over the labelling of them now - I put that down to a culture thing. Mutually respectful gamine at the table ideally leads to emergent gameplay in the session. There have lots of different backlashes against table top roleplaying over the decades - I see this as another version of same - not to be derided and rejected but dealt with reasoned care. I think the community that has risen around the development of BFRPG is a good example of mutual respect and consent done well - and could serve as a kind of model to achieve what's being sought out of this process - use or don't use these gaming tools. Just make sure players are comfortable in your games and you are too as a GM/DM.
GenX life lesson from the 80’s, “Life sucks and then you die.” Asking for consent for game style is really just good hospitality. If you’re a game master you’re opening up space for other folks. I make sure I’m going going to do harm to people if I’m inviting them over for a meal, so why wouldn’t I do it for folks who enter a space for which I am responsible? Use a formal tool, cool. Do it informally, cool. Do what you need to do for folks to know your space is hospitable. And yah, as an older player there are items on a lot of the formal tools that I don’t quite understand why I’d even GO there. I typically tell folks my taboos and ask for theirs.
I like the measured stance you took with it, and i do not have an issue with them in theory. I just do not think they work all that well for what they tend to be used for. It is trying to garentee a result in a conversation before talking to the other people; ie, i can not have any plans to have children getting hurt, but the party might capture the bad guy's kid and decide it is a wiz bang idea to hold them randsom. Is that violence, do they expect to have the npc not try to escape so they are not "forced" to stop them, and does that mean they are not going to smash those dragon eggs? This involves a conversation that probably needs to happen as it comes up, but the checklist gives an impression that is not nessicarily shared with the members of the group. It is why everyone still argues about allignment.
I'm gen z. This was pretty well said, although my experience is somewhat different. I find rather than a checklist, which just feels like homework, I prefer verbal conversation. I explain the type of game I'm looking to run, or ask what game is being run if I'm a prospective player. I ask if it sounds good or if I'm missing something. We work out what we're aiming for through dialogue, and sometimes there's just not enough that can be done either way to make a gaming relationship viable. Although I usually just want to game with these people and forget about them outside the sessions, it's also important to me that I have decent common ground as well. If there are wildly different assumptions and perceptions of reality, then it's likely that even just interacting in the game will be difficult. Also, I and no other Hispanic I know say latinx except as a joke. We just say "Hispanic" or in my case I'd just say "Cuban"
I'm on the older side of Millennial and that's kinda how I see things. I find that verbal communication and session zero are the only things you really need. If someone wants to go through the hoops of "safety tools" instead of just telling what they do and don't want? It comes off as an avoidance technique to me. Or that I'm likely dealing with some passive aggressive ticking timebomb of a person. I'll write a person like that off and they won't make the cut. And it's not like I won't make exceptions. There's a small handful of things banned with my regulars, at their request, because we spoke about it. But I ain't fooling around with someone who won't be upfront with me.
The freezing to death thing reminds me of a friend who was running a dungeon and misread inches for feet. So 20 foot of snow fell over night causing the adventure to turn into a fight for survival against the environment rather than the dungeon we were heading for.
As a Gen X player since around 6th grade (1981-ish), I initially recoiled at the idea of a “consent checklist” because it sounded soft. As the video played though, I found that I absolutely agree with the idea, particularly when playing with new people. Even back then my friends and I often had discussions and disagreements about the “tone” that our gaming had. We essentially rotated as DM’s with various loose campaigns, and we each definitely had our own styles. For instance, I loved the traditional, plain old Forgotten Realms, because it was cozy LOTR-esque high fantasy. However, I don’t like Planescape or Dark Sun… they were just too dark and bleak. I also never really cared for detailed religion, and just treated the pantheon of gods as simply worshipping “the Light” or “the Dark” or something like that. Disabilities and disease I’d keep simple… paralysis, weather-related injuries, I’m all for that, but I don’t need details like cancer or something. Right there with you about SA, situations with children, etc. Anything more than just a suggestion of it (a village overran by orcs or something, but I wouldn’t introduce explicit evidence of definite situations) is a hard pass.
Being early Gen X as well, I still to this day really only play with people I've gotten to know well before gaming with them (my current campaign is my wife, someone I've played with since 1983, someone I've played with since 2004, and someone I've played with since 2019 (the newbie)) I can see you may want to do a checklist if you are playing with strangers, but then, I've never wanted to play with strangers anyway.
Flying toasters is objectively the best screen saver ever. And yes I will die on that hill. I might be willing to sacrifice them for the SETI project, but aside from that, it has to be flying toasters. If you know, you know.
My own personal view is that I only want to play with people who have traditional values and are there to play a wholesome game where the heroes are the PCs and the villains are the monsters. Where having to explain what is good, what is evil, what is wholesome is not necessary. This view can be misrepresented to the point where I am called some kind villain.
(late GenX/early-Millennial) While I grew-up seeing the darker-side of life with the neighborhood I grew-up in, along with a societal expectation that I, along with other kids where I lived, should watch horror movies by 8 to "toughen us up" and a general disdain I have for those who weaponize children for the sake of controlling mass-media (music, books, video games, etc.), I do see the value of the RPG Consent Checklist as a player and GM. While I would not use the document as a GM per se, I would ask the players what topics we should avoid in the game and refer to the check list if they need more examples, but the people I play with usually know what they want and don't want, and are polite about it. The friends I play with have different tastes and aversions. Most of them are OK with sexuality front and center in-game (especially games about vampires and/or cyberpunks), with some who have no interest at all. Likewise, a number suffer strong fears and trauma, and for some, the stories that lead to their trauma are horrible beyond words. While not the worst example, I know a lady who loves movies with a lot of blood and gore, but suffers bad anxiety when she encounters someone in-game getting stabbed or slashed in the face due to her childhood experience with a cleft palate. The anxiety is such that she cant continue playing, so knowing her limits before hand is essential. I have played with queer players who use RPGs to explore their gender-identity, resulting in a lot of great gaming moments. (This is actually really common and once you realize the telltales, you can see their epiphany well before they do.) Much like the Accommodation video, it ALL about knowing the people you are playing with and having a good time. And session-zero is great, not just for getting everything set-up, but also good for setting the mood for the adventures to come.
Grognard, bless you for pronouncing it correctly! It originally applied to the Grenadiers of the Imperial Guard who were famous for complaining about everything.
It means "The Grumblers" and came into gaming from us old Sand table Napoleonics players complaining about these new-fangled hex board games with the temerity to call themselves wargamers! (though I was a Napoleonics player well after that happened, I've still been a Grumbler from the beginning :D
Hi Chris good video as always an interesting subject like you I'm a gen x who's in his 50's I never did check lists ever un till literally this year . I put my long running Basic Fantasy game on hold so I can take a break and a good friend of mine took up the DM roll for a new game decided to do a list I think mainly to be sure of things he was fairly sure of but wanted to make certain about especially as one of our group suffers from PTSD . But as the group are all friends we where very much all on the same page as to what we expected and where happy with so it was all good . I see the point in the form as I do know of groups that did get into things that are totally unnecessary to the game and wound make people uncomfortable. And as more players are playing in games with people they don't really know it probably wise to test the waters so to speak , anyway keep up the good work Chris and all the best to you and yours
Great video fill with calm reason (a VERY rare commodity these days). I've never used checklists, though I have posted content info before convention games. Usually it's just that I run a PG level game for the most part. Also, conversely, I have let folks know beforehand that political and religious discussions are NOT part of our table. So don't know if that is consent or just a way to let people know to keep it casual and friendly, And hope to have you at my table again sometime soon as well, Chris!
We had these conversations and a basically session 0 back in the day. It was called making characters and talking about the campaign, I even set rules... no romance fade to black... and they still are (I didn't wanna flirt with my friends and I still don't. I even play with my wife) The real difference was that as a DM I asked people to play that I either knew who they were or they asked me to play and knew who I was. I expected new comers to accept that game play. I ran the games that I wanted to run. They were free to come and go as they wished. As for the trigger warning stuff. I will always feel that allowing the words of others to hold power over you is a flaw, a weakness that I just can't comprehend. I never will. I try to be nice about it, but I always will look down at this behavior. The dark themes or racism (elf vs dwarf), slavery were the 'evils' of the world and like good fiction the game world emulated the real world's history and problems. Ever watch TOS Star Trek... it emulated the real world and confronted the views on those issues. I don't see the issue with having the bad things in the game and I won't run a game without them. Fighting against these things were the point of the game and always have been to me. What would you do... we we are going to see in my game. I won't change what I do or how I play. I am ok with people not wanting to play in my game. That doesn't bother me. That is the choice, consent is agreeing to play in my games I guess. This is why TTRPGs are good , finding a table of players that match your style. The world is to wide and to vast to accommodate everyone perfectly. I prefer to collect like minded people and explore the the what ifs.
It was a good listen. Thank you for broaching the topic. Mid Gen-X here also. As a guy raised in the backwoods culture when everyone had memorized the Truly Tasteless Joke books, there came a point where I had to start deprogramming that stuff. I truly didn't realize how toxic/insensitive these narratives were. I'm glad the next generations are a bit more conscious of this. I run into this a bit more often than most. I GM games mostly at conventions/with strangers. I consider this list a good place to start from. There is another safety tool called X-Card that I recommend. Simply, it is a card with an X that a player can touch/pick up if the subject matter goes too far for them. I also usually warn about the subject matter before hand and make sure we work out how to deal with it.
I think k social media has exacerbated this situation. People are far more ballsy online than in person. It also te ds to escalate problems in people's mind making them react too strongly or even trolling. Were not that different generation to generation we just need to come together in real life, or at least a face to face chat and cover this ground.
As a guy born right around that same time I think the modern notion of consent is a positive development. The world I grew up in was sexist, racist and really not a place most folks today would want to live in. I'm pretty happy to work with younger players on important issues like this, and it's sometimes surprising just how jaded I am to things that should shock me more. Progress is good!
I once had a dm who was a friend of mine drop an army of child orc soldiers on the party. He had asked us if there was anything we werent interested in seeing and i contributed a thing or two to that list. I didnt think i would need to specify that i didnt want to fight child soldiers. It never crossed my mind that would be something that would come up. So i guess i say all that to say, if you plan to discuss things you're not okay with being in a game, maybe make sure the DM isnt using it to see what boundry lines he can push.
i might be a grognard because i played the star wars d6 ttrpg back in the mid nineties and still play it to this day. Our GM back then and still my best friend to this day is african american and to this day he's stated that he "feels like a unicorn".
In thinking about this I think I would go with having a list of the things that may happen in my game and people can read that and decide whether they want to play or not. It won't hurt my feelings in the least if they don't want to play because they might encounter something they don't like. What a contract thing I'm not cool with that. The next step will be lawyers, mark my words.
I just ask my players to exercise good taste and leave it at that. It's never been a problem. I did have one player try to get me to agree to have certain bad things never happen to any character. It wasn't anything obvious like sexual assault (which we already don't ever have), I think it was a specific condition. I didn't want to be responsible for remembering it so I told him no promises and he left. I just recruited another player.
This is an example of a free market. You need a willing buyer and a willing cellar that have a meeting of the minds. Another words both have to be happy with the conditions in the game. I don't need a written contract for that I just need an idea of what's going to happen in the game and I can decide whether I want to play or not. Seems simple to me.
Very interesting. I see how it's a generational thing. In our time D&D (and its derivatives) meant just a single thing. Today, it can be many things. Of course, someone going to a horror movie shouldn't complain the movie is scary but only if it's made clear from the start that the movie is a horror movie. Perhaps ttrpgs need something like genre indications, a blurb and content warnings like movies have so that players know what they're in for when joining. A "consent form" seems a bit heavy handed to me but I guess it's reasonable for new players joining a group they're unfamiliar with. This Gnomish Fire Mage likes it to be known to have no qualms engulfing the Orc War Orphanage in purifying flames though. After all : if allowed to grow up they just going to want revenge for having done the same to their parents 😁
Consent in rpg's is detrimental If you need to have work sheets to run a make believe other than your character sheet.... GET OUT THE HOBBY. It's not an ist, or phobic, it's common sense!!!
@@theyawningowlbear6758 I'm not sure what you mean. How is it going to hurt me? The game is literally sold about as close to cost as I can get; I'm not trying to make money from it. So if it did hurt sales, I seriously would not care. But so far it hasn't; in fact, the only time sales were better was when WoTC tried to kill the OGL (which improved basically everyone's sales). So we can just say that I'm not worried. I am amazed how I managed to trigger you though.
Also, if what I typed angered or offended, you will get over it. I'm not buying a game to be preached to. If common sense is too complicated a subject for you, find a different hobby.
Im not buying into this woke, bs. It's topics like this and other snowflake ideas that kill a lot of IPs and company projects. Just to name a few... 40K, Star Wars, DC, Marvel, and even grand wizards of the coast who destroyed dnd since 4e. All their books are just chock full of this modern rhetoric, and its the primary reason why they complain when fans and customers dont buy their stuff. Common sense methods, such as pulling the gm aside and layout your concerns, are and always have been the way me and my group and I have done things since i first got into ttrpgs. There was none of this checklist, or hold up an X card crap. If you were that immature, you could not voice the opinion as a group, or were that sensitive, maybe this game, or, at the very least, that group was not for you. Seriously, you see this being spouted from more of these nutjobs who want "fluidity" and "pronouns."" Thankfully, I've walked away from any group that gave off this vibe, and over time, they all fell apart in weeks. Chris, I love your work and have MANY of your books, both pdf and physical. Please keep it as neutral as possible. I've dropped many a product because they felt they had to bend the knee. I'd hate to have to add this to the pile.
The only thing in all of that mess you just posted that bothers me in any way is the idea that I might have "felt (I) had to bend the knee." I don't, and never have. If I said it, I personally believe in it... I'm not conforming to anyone else's standard.
Most of the criticism I see online of safety tools comes from people that haven't even read them. I'm glad you went to the effort of actually reading a consent form and considering the context of use.
Millennial here - started playing in the 90s. I think consent establishes a level of comfort in this artistic collaboration, that you can be pretty sure the outlandish stuff you'll get up to probably ring l won't bother anyone at the table in a serious way. And the point of a checklist is just to make sure you don't miss anything. I get the people responding saying they don't want to do it so formally, but for me I'm liable to forget a detail here or there and just my luck that will be someone's ick or trigger and I'll feel bad about it later. We're all there for a good weird time after all.
The problem with some groups or DMs insisting on just having "traditional values" and using "common sense" is that those things vary wildly and what one person assumes to be acceptable to include in a recreational activity may not be acceptable at all to someone else. The hobby is transitioning from a boys club with a very narrow range of demographics to something much more diverse and inclusive, and what the average Gen X cishet white guy thinks is good traditional values and common sense shouldn't be assumed to be shared. Tools like this can be useful in turning ambiguity into specificity.
Being honest with your players and having a mutually respectful 'session zero' type session is key here - that way as a GM you can lay out the expectations in your world and informed consent can happen mutually - ok it doesn't always work that way - and is easier to type words about it on the internet than to achieve at the gaming 'table' whether it be face to face or online. Those that don't want to participate from that knowledge can then leave if they want to. I like how you make that plain while acknowledging that there are variety of players/GMs that are from different generations as to when they started in the hobby.
I saw a video from another channel that pointed out that 'Consent Checklists'/Safety Tools' were how he played and DM'ed his classic D&D games from the start and quibbled over the labelling of them now - I put that down to a culture thing. Mutually respectful gamine at the table ideally leads to emergent gameplay in the session.
There have lots of different backlashes against table top roleplaying over the decades - I see this as another version of same - not to be derided and rejected but dealt with reasoned care. I think the community that has risen around the development of BFRPG is a good example of mutual respect and consent done well - and could serve as a kind of model to achieve what's being sought out of this process - use or don't use these gaming tools. Just make sure players are comfortable in your games and you are too as a GM/DM.
GenX life lesson from the 80’s, “Life sucks and then you die.”
Asking for consent for game style is really just good hospitality. If you’re a game master you’re opening up space for other folks. I make sure I’m going going to do harm to people if I’m inviting them over for a meal, so why wouldn’t I do it for folks who enter a space for which I am responsible?
Use a formal tool, cool. Do it informally, cool. Do what you need to do for folks to know your space is hospitable.
And yah, as an older player there are items on a lot of the formal tools that I don’t quite understand why I’d even GO there. I typically tell folks my taboos and ask for theirs.
I like the measured stance you took with it, and i do not have an issue with them in theory. I just do not think they work all that well for what they tend to be used for.
It is trying to garentee a result in a conversation before talking to the other people; ie, i can not have any plans to have children getting hurt, but the party might capture the bad guy's kid and decide it is a wiz bang idea to hold them randsom. Is that violence, do they expect to have the npc not try to escape so they are not "forced" to stop them, and does that mean they are not going to smash those dragon eggs? This involves a conversation that probably needs to happen as it comes up, but the checklist gives an impression that is not nessicarily shared with the members of the group. It is why everyone still argues about allignment.
The central concept of empathy…very much appreciate it.
I'm gen z. This was pretty well said, although my experience is somewhat different. I find rather than a checklist, which just feels like homework, I prefer verbal conversation. I explain the type of game I'm looking to run, or ask what game is being run if I'm a prospective player. I ask if it sounds good or if I'm missing something. We work out what we're aiming for through dialogue, and sometimes there's just not enough that can be done either way to make a gaming relationship viable. Although I usually just want to game with these people and forget about them outside the sessions, it's also important to me that I have decent common ground as well. If there are wildly different assumptions and perceptions of reality, then it's likely that even just interacting in the game will be difficult. Also, I and no other Hispanic I know say latinx except as a joke. We just say "Hispanic" or in my case I'd just say "Cuban"
I'm on the older side of Millennial and that's kinda how I see things. I find that verbal communication and session zero are the only things you really need. If someone wants to go through the hoops of "safety tools" instead of just telling what they do and don't want? It comes off as an avoidance technique to me. Or that I'm likely dealing with some passive aggressive ticking timebomb of a person. I'll write a person like that off and they won't make the cut.
And it's not like I won't make exceptions. There's a small handful of things banned with my regulars, at their request, because we spoke about it. But I ain't fooling around with someone who won't be upfront with me.
Trolls are in the game, not seated at the table. YES!
This is Good advice which I will try to live by.
Thanks for (once again) being the voice of common sense, Chris. A fair and balanced point of view.
Thank you! I do my best.
The freezing to death thing reminds me of a friend who was running a dungeon and misread inches for feet. So 20 foot of snow fell over night causing the adventure to turn into a fight for survival against the environment rather than the dungeon we were heading for.
As a Gen X player since around 6th grade (1981-ish), I initially recoiled at the idea of a “consent checklist” because it sounded soft. As the video played though, I found that I absolutely agree with the idea, particularly when playing with new people. Even back then my friends and I often had discussions and disagreements about the “tone” that our gaming had. We essentially rotated as DM’s with various loose campaigns, and we each definitely had our own styles. For instance, I loved the traditional, plain old Forgotten Realms, because it was cozy LOTR-esque high fantasy. However, I don’t like Planescape or Dark Sun… they were just too dark and bleak. I also never really cared for detailed religion, and just treated the pantheon of gods as simply worshipping “the Light” or “the Dark” or something like that. Disabilities and disease I’d keep simple… paralysis, weather-related injuries, I’m all for that, but I don’t need details like cancer or something.
Right there with you about SA, situations with children, etc. Anything more than just a suggestion of it (a village overran by orcs or something, but I wouldn’t introduce explicit evidence of definite situations) is a hard pass.
Being early Gen X as well, I still to this day really only play with people I've gotten to know well before gaming with them (my current campaign is my wife, someone I've played with since 1983, someone I've played with since 2004, and someone I've played with since 2019 (the newbie)) I can see you may want to do a checklist if you are playing with strangers, but then, I've never wanted to play with strangers anyway.
Flying toasters. There were flying toasters and that made me happy.
Flying toasters is objectively the best screen saver ever. And yes I will die on that hill. I might be willing to sacrifice them for the SETI project, but aside from that, it has to be flying toasters. If you know, you know.
@@crapphone7744 You misspelled Johnny Castaway.
My own personal view is that I only want to play with people who have traditional values and are there to play a wholesome game where the heroes are the PCs and the villains are the monsters. Where having to explain what is good, what is evil, what is wholesome is not necessary. This view can be misrepresented to the point where I am called some kind villain.
(late GenX/early-Millennial) While I grew-up seeing the darker-side of life with the neighborhood I grew-up in, along with a societal expectation that I, along with other kids where I lived, should watch horror movies by 8 to "toughen us up" and a general disdain I have for those who weaponize children for the sake of controlling mass-media (music, books, video games, etc.), I do see the value of the RPG Consent Checklist as a player and GM. While I would not use the document as a GM per se, I would ask the players what topics we should avoid in the game and refer to the check list if they need more examples, but the people I play with usually know what they want and don't want, and are polite about it.
The friends I play with have different tastes and aversions. Most of them are OK with sexuality front and center in-game (especially games about vampires and/or cyberpunks), with some who have no interest at all. Likewise, a number suffer strong fears and trauma, and for some, the stories that lead to their trauma are horrible beyond words. While not the worst example, I know a lady who loves movies with a lot of blood and gore, but suffers bad anxiety when she encounters someone in-game getting stabbed or slashed in the face due to her childhood experience with a cleft palate. The anxiety is such that she cant continue playing, so knowing her limits before hand is essential. I have played with queer players who use RPGs to explore their gender-identity, resulting in a lot of great gaming moments. (This is actually really common and once you realize the telltales, you can see their epiphany well before they do.)
Much like the Accommodation video, it ALL about knowing the people you are playing with and having a good time. And session-zero is great, not just for getting everything set-up, but also good for setting the mood for the adventures to come.
Grognard, bless you for pronouncing it correctly! It originally applied to the Grenadiers of the Imperial Guard who were famous for complaining about everything.
It means "The Grumblers" and came into gaming from us old Sand table Napoleonics players complaining about these new-fangled hex board games with the temerity to call themselves wargamers! (though I was a Napoleonics player well after that happened, I've still been a Grumbler from the beginning :D
No Chris, no matter what is in your game, there are DEFINITELY people on-line that are in to that..
Hi Chris good video as always an interesting subject like you I'm a gen x who's in his 50's I never did check lists ever un till literally this year .
I put my long running Basic Fantasy game on hold so I can take a break and a good friend of mine took up the DM roll for a new game decided to do a list I think mainly to be sure of things he was fairly sure of but wanted to make certain about especially as one of our group suffers from PTSD .
But as the group are all friends we where very much all on the same page as to what we expected and where happy with so it was all good .
I see the point in the form as I do know of groups that did get into things that are totally unnecessary to the game and wound make people uncomfortable.
And as more players are playing in games with people they don't really know it probably wise to test the waters so to speak , anyway keep up the good work Chris and all the best to you and yours
Great video fill with calm reason (a VERY rare commodity these days). I've never used checklists, though I have posted content info before convention games. Usually it's just that I run a PG level game for the most part. Also, conversely, I have let folks know beforehand that political and religious discussions are NOT part of our table. So don't know if that is consent or just a way to let people know to keep it casual and friendly, And hope to have you at my table again sometime soon as well, Chris!
We had these conversations and a basically session 0 back in the day. It was called making characters and talking about the campaign, I even set rules... no romance fade to black... and they still are (I didn't wanna flirt with my friends and I still don't. I even play with my wife) The real difference was that as a DM I asked people to play that I either knew who they were or they asked me to play and knew who I was. I expected new comers to accept that game play. I ran the games that I wanted to run. They were free to come and go as they wished. As for the trigger warning stuff. I will always feel that allowing the words of others to hold power over you is a flaw, a weakness that I just can't comprehend. I never will. I try to be nice about it, but I always will look down at this behavior. The dark themes or racism (elf vs dwarf), slavery were the 'evils' of the world and like good fiction the game world emulated the real world's history and problems. Ever watch TOS Star Trek... it emulated the real world and confronted the views on those issues. I don't see the issue with having the bad things in the game and I won't run a game without them. Fighting against these things were the point of the game and always have been to me. What would you do... we we are going to see in my game. I won't change what I do or how I play. I am ok with people not wanting to play in my game. That doesn't bother me. That is the choice, consent is agreeing to play in my games I guess. This is why TTRPGs are good , finding a table of players that match your style. The world is to wide and to vast to accommodate everyone perfectly. I prefer to collect like minded people and explore the the what ifs.
It was a good listen. Thank you for broaching the topic.
Mid Gen-X here also. As a guy raised in the backwoods culture when everyone had memorized the Truly Tasteless Joke books, there came a point where I had to start deprogramming that stuff. I truly didn't realize how toxic/insensitive these narratives were. I'm glad the next generations are a bit more conscious of this.
I run into this a bit more often than most. I GM games mostly at conventions/with strangers. I consider this list a good place to start from. There is another safety tool called X-Card that I recommend. Simply, it is a card with an X that a player can touch/pick up if the subject matter goes too far for them. I also usually warn about the subject matter before hand and make sure we work out how to deal with it.
Didn’t actually realise this was a thing. Been out of the hobby for ages and when I used to play it was with a group of people I knew.
I think k social media has exacerbated this situation. People are far more ballsy online than in person. It also te ds to escalate problems in people's mind making them react too strongly or even trolling. Were not that different generation to generation we just need to come together in real life, or at least a face to face chat and cover this ground.
As a guy born right around that same time I think the modern notion of consent is a positive development. The world I grew up in was sexist, racist and really not a place most folks today would want to live in. I'm pretty happy to work with younger players on important issues like this, and it's sometimes surprising just how jaded I am to things that should shock me more. Progress is good!
I once had a dm who was a friend of mine drop an army of child orc soldiers on the party. He had asked us if there was anything we werent interested in seeing and i contributed a thing or two to that list. I didnt think i would need to specify that i didnt want to fight child soldiers. It never crossed my mind that would be something that would come up. So i guess i say all that to say, if you plan to discuss things you're not okay with being in a game, maybe make sure the DM isnt using it to see what boundry lines he can push.
Hey! That's likely my local library you downloaded it from!! So many of us looked for the document it became the top hit.
i might be a grognard because i played the star wars d6 ttrpg back in the mid nineties and still play it to this day. Our GM back then and still my best friend to this day is african american and to this day he's stated that he "feels like a unicorn".
In thinking about this I think I would go with having a list of the things that may happen in my game and people can read that and decide whether they want to play or not. It won't hurt my feelings in the least if they don't want to play because they might encounter something they don't like. What a contract thing I'm not cool with that. The next step will be lawyers, mark my words.
I just ask my players to exercise good taste and leave it at that. It's never been a problem. I did have one player try to get me to agree to have certain bad things never happen to any character. It wasn't anything obvious like sexual assault (which we already don't ever have), I think it was a specific condition. I didn't want to be responsible for remembering it so I told him no promises and he left. I just recruited another player.
Which is more or less exactly what I would do.
This is an example of a free market. You need a willing buyer and a willing cellar that have a meeting of the minds. Another words both have to be happy with the conditions in the game. I don't need a written contract for that I just need an idea of what's going to happen in the game and I can decide whether I want to play or not. Seems simple to me.
Very interesting. I see how it's a generational thing. In our time D&D (and its derivatives) meant just a single thing. Today, it can be many things. Of course, someone going to a horror movie shouldn't complain the movie is scary but only if it's made clear from the start that the movie is a horror movie.
Perhaps ttrpgs need something like genre indications, a blurb and content warnings like movies have so that players know what they're in for when joining. A "consent form" seems a bit heavy handed to me but I guess it's reasonable for new players joining a group they're unfamiliar with.
This Gnomish Fire Mage likes it to be known to have no qualms engulfing the Orc War Orphanage in purifying flames though. After all : if allowed to grow up they just going to want revenge for having done the same to their parents 😁
Consent in rpg's is detrimental
If you need to have work sheets to run a make believe other than your character sheet.... GET OUT THE HOBBY.
It's not an ist, or phobic, it's common sense!!!
I'd argue with you, but I've already made my case.
@@ChrisGonnerman Keep going down the woke path, and we will see how your case sounds then.
@@theyawningowlbear6758 I'm not sure what you mean. How is it going to hurt me? The game is literally sold about as close to cost as I can get; I'm not trying to make money from it. So if it did hurt sales, I seriously would not care. But so far it hasn't; in fact, the only time sales were better was when WoTC tried to kill the OGL (which improved basically everyone's sales). So we can just say that I'm not worried. I am amazed how I managed to trigger you though.
Also, if what I typed angered or offended, you will get over it. I'm not buying a game to be preached to. If common sense is too complicated a subject for you, find a different hobby.
Funny. A good application of common sense would be to realize I'm not worried about anyone buying the game.
Im not buying into this woke, bs. It's topics like this and other snowflake ideas that kill a lot of IPs and company projects. Just to name a few... 40K, Star Wars, DC, Marvel, and even grand wizards of the coast who destroyed dnd since 4e. All their books are just chock full of this modern rhetoric, and its the primary reason why they complain when fans and customers dont buy their stuff. Common sense methods, such as pulling the gm aside and layout your concerns, are and always have been the way me and my group and I have done things since i first got into ttrpgs. There was none of this checklist, or hold up an X card crap. If you were that immature, you could not voice the opinion as a group, or were that sensitive, maybe this game, or, at the very least, that group was not for you. Seriously, you see this being spouted from more of these nutjobs who want "fluidity" and "pronouns."" Thankfully, I've walked away from any group that gave off this vibe, and over time, they all fell apart in weeks. Chris, I love your work and have MANY of your books, both pdf and physical. Please keep it as neutral as possible. I've dropped many a product because they felt they had to bend the knee. I'd hate to have to add this to the pile.
The only thing in all of that mess you just posted that bothers me in any way is the idea that I might have "felt (I) had to bend the knee." I don't, and never have. If I said it, I personally believe in it... I'm not conforming to anyone else's standard.