Your editing is much improved. Incorporate the AI into the creative process is most engaging and creates cohesive coherent cohesion that all ages can enjoy. Mostly liked by humans looking for contents about books!
I think there are some advantages to your new editing style. I love it when the inserts add information (although the sfx for the images popping up on screen was a bit too loud for me), and I do like most of the ones that add to the comedy, but I believe you might be overdoing it and making it harder to follow these videos by audio. Kinda disconcerting to have gags so often. Thanks for the change up!
I think the audio gags are a case of "less is more" I don't think it works for this kind of content and it feels unnecessary and jarring. But I understand the reasoning behind trying it
It's worth pointing out that the thing about evolutionary pressures causing primarily Herbivores to develop sapience might not make sense... but it's told from the perspective of one of said herbivores. And one of the main themes of the book is about prejudices and racism. An Herbivore insisting that "only herbivores become sapient" would be considered racism. That's what really makes the story click is once you realize that the entire point is you're seeing this story from the perspective of DEEPLY PREJUDICED people, and that you shouldn't be taking their views on how the galaxy works at face value.
Mayor spoilers for the second half of the history (that can only be found in reddit): The reason why every species has deevolved into a caricature of their former selves is because the federation's first contact protocol consists on burning down and rewriting cultures, histories, ecosistems, and the population's DNA.
Unfortunately i think a lot of this book suffers from being incomplete, with a lot of the important information that handles a lot of your criticism currently only available online as the other novels get printed I'd love to see a return to it with the context of the rest of the first run. (Also the community behind this book has ran with the worldbuilding and made some of the highest quality fanfic I've ever read)
@@diewott1337 i had one of my 800 page books dropped before (it was being shuffled between 3 people) and that poor thing has since been held together by strong tape and crossed fingers
Did the book contain all chapters of the online shortstory? The later chapters had some explanation for why there are no brawly, combative herbivores in the federation
@@catfan913 Cus world building has rules? And there is no exposition machine that just says important stuff, what was said here was literally being kept a secret by the top governments. You can't just find that explanation from nowhere.
Anyone who thinks herbivores can't be dangerous has never heard about why they have their horns or hooves. Something like a moose or a Rhino will choose violence rather than just running away.
I'd say anyone who thinks that herbivore = vegeterian just haven't spend enough time with them. They can and will eat fresh or cooked meat if they get access to it. And they can and will eat other animals if they can. Like, horse can eat alive a grounded bird. Or your fingers if you're careleess enough. Rabbits can eat their offspring. They usually won't eat smth that's already dead and cold, but we (human omnivores) won't eat that thing too, because, well, food poisoning. Herbivores are not _designed_ (by evolution) for hunt, but they are also not _not designed_ for violence.
They lose a lot of relevance in later chapters, for context this a web novel series that got partially adapted into this book, the book itself is meant to retcon certain aspects of earlier chapters that didn’t fit in line with what the rest of the series would become(and also to make money). Most(key word MOST) of the plot criticisms fall off by chapter 80 and get replaced with lesser but still relevant new ones by chapter 120 and on top of that several narrative dead ends of actually really bold concepts showed up and disappeared because the fanbase kept making dark jokes and memes and the author took and certain brain dead morons took them to seriously in 2 very different ways each making the “third act” of the original story rather messy and that messiness has continued on into the second much more controversial series.
Before watching - HOLY FUCKIN SHIT I NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS WOULD HAVE EXPECTED A BOOK UA-camR I WATCH TO COVER NOP. EVEN IF HE SHITS ON IT LETS FUCKING GO
and majority of shitting on it is due to the writing style curse of a chapter by chapter published story, and cutting off before revalations about the setting start helping explain all the oddities
nature of predators started on hfy and is currently something like 250 chapters with a new chapter every Wednesday and Saturday. The physical book only covers the first 40 chapters. Since it's being actively made the author is reacting and addressing some of the issues you mentioned. I hope you revisit the series when the next physical adaptation comes but if it's not your thing then it's not your thing.
I can’t be mad at this book because it got me into sci fi reading and even had a neat little community behind it that got me into writing fan fics. I didn’t think mine were that great, but they were fun to write and collaborate with.
Honestly a lot of the wierd worldbuilding you mentioned is actually explained in the later chapters and ties in quite well to the plot. Even of your only judging the print book as a standalone thing which is valid it would probably be good to mention that its only around 1/4 of the full story posted online for free.
So review of a review, as a fan of the series…Warning there are spoilers ahead…… First review I’ve seen of this on UA-cam so far, so it was cool to see. But the entire video I was going “most of your complaints are literally addressed later.” Like all sapient species except two in NOP1 being herbivores is because of a different reason we learn later (not Tarva’s explanation in chapter one, but because of social brainwashing and genetic engineering we learn in the omnivore reveal). Or most prey species being skittish and running away at everything unlike a lot of earth herbivores being due to factors such as brainwashing (which we see in “The Gentling” with the Venlil) or due to societal factors (most aggression being considered “predator disease” and they do things like lock up, drug, sterilize, or electroshock people for that). The whole review I was like “please read more this is addressed later and this series has unreliable narrators that give you a lot of false info.” 😭 To be fair, I think the physical copy is only like the first 40 or so chapters plus a patreon story or two? I can’t expect some book reviewer to read a few hundred only online chapters that aren’t in print yet at the time of my comment (between NOP 1, NOP 2, and patreon).
Oh hey, a video on something I’ve already read. And yeah, there’s some aspects you just kinda have to… not think about. As for the logic of “prey are naturally in unity, predators will only murder you”… I’ll say that’s very much intentionally a blindspot/wrongness in the Federation. The rest of the book is online, you kinda just got the first portion of it in the print version.
Yeah if you keep reading the story that's been posted online some of the strange bits that don't really make sense actually get explained later on as the actual plot gets uncovered (I will not disagree that there is a lot of reading to get through before things are revealed)
I’d love for another alien from the same planet to show up and be like, “Oh, the guy with the green antennas? No we don’t talk like that. We don’t even have those. He just likes to mess with people. He’s kind of a jerk”.
I like the new editing style, however, to nit-pick, I do think the little "beeeep" after a skit ends is a bit of a waste of time. usually, that would work as a 'detox' from the prior tone, but since it's already a fairly comedy-based however genuine review video, we're going from a written-out gag to natural-flowing gag humour. so, I just think a "beeeep" cut doesn't add much, and it's funnier if it goes back to your genuine review after the gag (the alien gag was funny btw, i just think the "beeep" can make it feel more formulaic). also, the bit where you lampshaded the expectation of the alien being a one-time gag was my favourite gag.
I haven't finished the video, but I'm already really frustrated because it feels like literally all of your complaints are things that become plot points later in the series, after the chapters that were included in the first book. The Nature of Predators was released as a serialized web story with well over 100 pages (and that's if you don't include all the side stories and the sequel series set 20 years later), and the book you read was only 40 of them. Nature of Predators is fundamentally a story about institutionalized bigotry and how living in a bigoted society with a rigid social binary that's allegedly based on biology but fails to acknowledge its complexities rots your brain, and that's why I as a trans person have always adored it.
I came across this series on Reddit a few months ago, and I remember reading through the first 30-or-so chapters before I got tired of it. And your assessment -- a good premise that's too spread out -- is my main complaint as well. After reading all that, I checked Nature of Predators's TvTropes page (I'm that sort of person) and found out that there were some interesting-sounding twists that re-contextualized a lot of the series...but they didn't kick in until around chapter 100! And at that point, it just wasn't worth the effort to catch up to them. I honestly think a lot of NoP fanfics are better than the main series, if only because they don't stretch themselves out as much and focus more on individual characters.
Well James the book is a HFY story but got so popular they pushed the writer for a fizikal release also spoiler alert the reason everybody is a herbivor is they were devolved by the federation most of them were omnivores before they got screwed over and thats just the meat they also got theres legs and spines twisted etc
It boggles my mind how you say just go read some r/hfy stories, when NoP is literally one of the most well known r/hfy story over there. First series done at 186 chapters, with the second already at 66 chapters.
went and checked a thing, this is actively being released chapter by chapter on their patreon and the latest full chapter was listed as 2-67 it's ongoing and glancing at other comments the unresolved plot threads will be coming back with a vengeance, also stories published chapter by chapter just seem to have that quality of being a bit padded so each update doesn't come across as short and the author wasn't doing jack
The idea that herbivores are timid and peaceful is so strange. I had rabbits all my life, they are fully vegan but if you don't introduce a new rabbit properly to the rest they might maul each other to death. Those little cute fuzzy creatures are vicious.
@@Nockgun One of the federation species, the takans even look like biped ones XD But yeah as mentioned above that way of thinking is drilled into the fed members with often quite brutal methods. The "Predator Disease" Facilities are basically oldschool asylums with the full program from electroshocks to lobotomy to take care of "agressive" or "herdless" individuals, most of the time this means either folks who don't shit their pants when confronted by adversaries (exterminators aside those are allowed to have a backbone since they are directly answering to the federation), or political prisoners.... or people asking exactly these kind of questions.
I'd argue Predators are more likely to be social than your average Herbivorous creature because "Plants" are less nutritious than meat. Plants are literally everywhere, and unless a species is specialized into a specific plant or part of it, then being territorial will make its food source less competitive and help its survival in times of drought or other conditions where food is scarce. There are, of course, exceptions, but most are either small and need less food or larger and eat a specialized diet. Such as Grazers where there's no need to defend land or food since they move so much and all benefit from there being more targets, or Frugivores who eat calorically dense fruit and can afford to share a little more in exchange for a bigger group, but these animals tend to be fiercely territorial as a collective, like Chimps and some Parrots.
Yeah you don't need to evolve pack hunting in order to eat grass. Hunting requires a coordination that herbivores never get close too. Like, zebras all just kinda run in the same direction. They don't have any kind of rudimentary tactics that lions have.
@alexanderchippel Some Herbivores have incredibly complex and tight nit social structures like Elephant and Horses, but for every 1 of those there's dozens of Solitary animals like Giraffes and Moose. It does depend and you really shouldn't under estimate how smart and complex some Herbivores are, even if they are an overall minority when it comes to complex animal groups.
@@lamotou4banana383 Elephants are pretty intelligent but they're the outlier. And horses are not intelligent. Whenever they see a predator, all they do is just follow the leader. That's how humans were able to domesticate horses so easily. Once the leader of the heard was tamed, all the other horses just followed along.
@alexanderchippel Horses have some pretty Complex Social behavior and dominance system, the fact that they can be taken over by a Human goes to show it's fluidity more than anything else. You are right in the regard that Horses are not particularly intelligent, but they do go far beyond the mindless herds that most other social Herbivores have.
Edit: ahh, the book is missing the last half of the web-novel. That would explain it. Sorry for jumping the gun. 4:10 "it's a humanity f yeah story that went on way too long" I hate to break it to you, that's literally what it is. It's a story originally written and released chapter by chapter over a couple years on a subreddit called r/hfy. I'm surprised you were unaware of this. Did you actually finish the book? Or even make it half way through? Because, if you did, you would know the reason for the aliens not making much sense. Because it is revealed why these are the way they are. It's not even that the explanations are necessarily good explanations. There's plenty you could criticize about them. But you don't even bring them up to do so. In case you're interested. The founder species of the federation was genetically modifying obstinate, aggressive, or omnivorous species to become meek, weak, and allergic to meat. As well as literally killing every animal that eats meat that they can. And then re-enforcing 'prey' behaviors by drugging and lobotomizing dissenters and the mentally ill.
alright, so, i've been a NoP fan for a while, and while I get It's just your opinion, you must understand that the reason it felt "incomplete" is because you didnt read the entire story. The paperback only includes the first 40 chapters, and a lot of your (frankly reasonable) complaints are explained and make a lot more sense later in the story, which is online. while its definitely not a perfect story, you gotta read the whole thing before you judge it (just like any other book). I don't mean any ill will towards yourself, I just wanted to say my part. :)
The thing I appreciate about your reviews is that they're oddly really good at selling me on my type of trash. Like, it's easy to guess how I might feel reading the same material based on your reactions and descriptions, regardless of how closely our tastes align in that moment. I also just find interesting ideas with lousy execution to be really endearing for some reason, in that "they're a little confused but they got the spirit" sort of way. Real shame about the repetitive/boring bits, though. I wonder if those recaps are an artifact of the book originally being an online serial.
I think Larry Niven's Known Space books had a really neat interpretation of a sapient "prey" species. Pierson's Puppeteers evolved from herding animals so most of them prefer to be near their own kind (even if via simulated noises and smells), and their political decisions - no matter how horrible they are for everyone else - are always in service of the species' continued safety. Even Puppeteer furniture is all rounded and blended together to minimise the risk of a sharp edge hurting them by accident.
I agree with your criticisms in general, but I do think the story is worth continuing with to a point - there's a lot of twists and interesting shifts in the information everybody is working on that makes the story and setting significantly more unique and fascinating. In addition, we eventually get an Arxur viewpoint character who's definitely the most interesting and fun part of the series as a whole. He's honestly my favorite character. ...I still got bored eventually though. The humanity fuck yeah vibes never really go away and once you've got a full understanding of the situation, the plot to actually resolving it just feels... overly stretched out.
The main issue is Carnivores vs Herbivores is a very limited understanding of dietary requirements. We know for a fact some herbivores can digest meat perfectly fine, and vice versa for carnivores, for example some herbivores eat antlers and bone as a mineral supplement While carnivores can partake in spoilt fruit as it mimics the effect of drunkenness. . Also in the context of this story, it glosses over potential need for animal products in a number of different areas. Such as industrial applications, fashion applications and so on and do forth. Not to mention the aspects of how herbivores can be inter competitive just like any species and could fight over mates and land for example. The idea of Herbivores = cooperative is tied to very outdated and unscientific justification.
I might point out with a spoiler warning This is all by design, the federation forces this kind of thinking on it's members, often at gunpoint under the threat of genocide and commited already several eradications of outliers that threaten their narrative. People who don't fit in the "Heard" idea are labled "predator diseased" and locked away. For example all former omnivorus species in the federation were genemoded into herbivority and their histories ereased. And about the Arxur, like the CiS in Star Wars they are just puppets to the federation leadership to keep the war up and the unifying narrative "valid".
Yea, unscientific is the word. If you read the rest of the story, the underlying justification for a lot of the nonsense in the book is moral panic rather than rationality
I didn't realize I missed your silly skits. I did almost ask, What different editing style, but I think I got it. I like it, I like the pings and other noises. I did die with the clip of the giraffe stomping on the lions or whatever, I don't know why, it just looked so goofy and like the giraffe didn't mean to do if but it's just a stick figure in meat form, it couldn't stop doing it.
is this maybe a hint to use that you might be looking into Sci-fi? if you need some ideas for what to make a video on, Please look into "The Doona Trilogy [ Decision at Doona , Crisis on Doona and finally Treaty at Doona ] by Anne McCaffrey and the other two books worked with Jody Lynn Nye . that first contact series is not just a special bad but also old fashioned weird as heck.
So the book is only the first 40 or so chapters of the 160 chapter long story. Most of the major things like omnivores other than humans not existing, the arxur being comically evil, and the herbivores being massive cowards are actually explained later on. There are reasons why the aliens are the ways they are. All of those surface level ideas you talk about are greatly expanded upon.
9:00 I strongly recommend you read "The word for world is forest" by Ursula K Le Guin! It’s a novella which explores this theme and the type of book that had me stare at a wall in deep thought for several moments after I finished it
It seems kinda reverse with evolutionary history and social evolution it usually makes more sense for omnivores or carnivores who are scavengers and hunters to develop intelligence not only for group strategies, but they also need to go long time alive if thy can't hunt, they should be able to outsmart the prey, they should be smart enough to not over-hunt as that would cause them to die out too, They should need to be able to develop and vary in their ways of getting food so they could eventually develop domestication and agriculture not just for food but also for other tasks. Herbivores usually are also not great at voluntary symbiosis, when their food doesn't require them to be.
I read this on reddit and mostly liked it there. My biggest complaint was that the fight scenes had too little descriptions. I was never sure where the characters were, how many people were on each side or what the environment looks like. Maybe this was improved in the print version, but without descriptions it can be hard to stay invested
5:26 This... _unfortunately..._ reminds me of a video that recently came out of India. A tourist was gored after trying to... uhm, well, *_"Ride"_* a bull there. Yes, herbivores can defend themselves when the need arises. _Thankfully._
I've been following the story online because I find the universe/concept interesting, but I've also found that many of the fanfics have much better stories.
I was there when first chapters of NoP were written. My memory may be faulty, and some parts may be retconned - but weren't ost species previously upliften from erathy animals, and then rediscovered by humans? because i'm sure there was story like that, and i cannot point anything past NoP.
That's interestingly the opposite of the world I'm making. The society (or societies) in my story, the Varebalka, are carnivorous human descendants that evolved for around 4 million years consuming the bodies of other humans in stasis in a Dyson Swarm around Wolf 359. Long story short, they arrive on a wild Ice Age Earth (Southern Ireland to be more specific) by hijacking one of the Galactic AI's ships. They created the institution of the Woodwardens, a kind of fully independent knightly order that works as a kind of government over the more forested central regions, and are structured in a similar way to the Catholic Church, being a meritocratic hierarchy (a Woodwarden is pictured in my profile icon). Their functions include upkeeping trading routes and lodges for hunters that can be rented in a seasonal basis, offering hunting licences (that are priced according to supply and demand of certain species) and butchering services, doing hunts themselves to sell the meat at an upcharge, scientific and environmental analyses of their forests, enforce Forest Law, and actual military security of the territory itself. They are funded by their own profits rather than by taxation. They go through a rigorous training process and are more educated and athletic than most other Varebalka. They're aided by the hukin, superintelligent ravens that are capable of following complex instructions (such as surveillance, scouting and couriering) and utilizing the Varebalka language (and the wrowga language, they're intelligent wolves native to the territory, but that's another story). Also, the Varebalka organize in freely associating packs of families that hunt together and acquire hunting licences and lodge rentals together.
It's the first 40 chapters of an online webseries that's currently over 250 chapters in length. Also, the veganism as depicted in NoP is anything but based.
2:00 Biology major here. You're right, that logic isn’t logicking. All animals are in competition both within their population (natural selection, survival of the fittest and all) and between populations or species (think two herbivores living in the same habitat with the same feeding preferences and limited resources). Actually, I find it hard to imagine a world where herbivory means less competition, unless there’s some kind of parasitism to cull exponential population growth or niches that are so separate from each other that every species has discrete feeding preferences and the food is abundant enough to not compete. But that’s ignoring all the other factors in one's niche. I mean, I’m sure it’s not impossible, but not for the reasoning that the author gives. Also, apologies if I used any incorrect terminology, I’m not an ecology major, just thinking back to the few compulsory ecology courses I took some time ago.
Also, 100% herbivory would suggest none of these species eat insects, zooplankton, there are no parasites nor scavengers, which would really limit the diversity of the food web
@@sophs8548 Gotta point out the book is only 40/184 chapters of the webstory so far Spoiler warning You are correct in those assestments and the people in charge of the federation know this too, a large portion of federation species used to be omnivorus but got genemoded and culturally sanitised by the federation to fit into their narratives. Also the federation is extremly destructive towards their ecosystems wiping out pretty much all predatory , omnivorus(albeit to them those are predators too) and most herbivorus animals with very few exceptions.
@@Denterify2 well, that explains a lot! Maybe I'll have to look into the series as anything sci-fi with an evolutionary bio twist is definitely up my alley.
Yeah, it doesn't make sense and a zoologist in the book saids as much. It's resolved in one of the twists down the line. The full story is available online.
This herbivore evolution idea is stupid. You need more strategy for hunting animals than grass. Not to mention that plants are usually less nutritious and require more digestion, meaning eating takes more time and energy from you.
It's definetly an enjoyable read, on preachy and wierd theme that is issu is more that the paperback is atm only 40/184 chapters and many of the issues are plot relevant
@@Denterify2I've never felt like this book was preachy at first but maybe that's because I knew this was only the beginning and they needed to do exposition. Plus since on reddit it is heavily divided into chapters, the info is dosed and so it doesn't bother you.
I think it's reasonable that a super advanced race would also have the capacity to produce nutritious food without cattle ranching. Traveling long distances in space practically requires this technology. It's not really talked about in Star Trek but everyone on those ships basically has to be vegan. You ever see any chicken coups?
I'm honestly surprised that this book has 460+ pages according to Amazon, since I checked the posts on Reddit (from 1-40, which seems to be what's included in this book) and each one of them barely seem to be long enough to fill 5 pages each, so I'm not sure where the other half of the book comes from LOL
The 40 chapters are from page 3 to 387. From page 388 to 456 are smaller in-universe stories that were patreon-only. From 457 to 464 are information about the species and page 465 contains three frequently asked questions.
Men I remember reading this on Reddit and many of your complaints gets addressed in that… no clue about the book. I did like it but as an evolutionary biology enthusiast… nothing holds up to scrutiny haha
I'd like to preface this by saying that I am caught up in NOP1 and 2. I have not shelled out on the Patreon side stories yet. Based on your reasons for disliking other HFY stories in that other video of yours, I think you would most likely enjoy the rest of Nature of Predators 1 (NOP1). Because, well, the story, in my opinion, is a critique of how HFY writers desapientize aliens. The theme here is that aliens all being the same is BAD, because other people deserve to have their own culture. To make other races be nothing but weak punching bags, is desapientizing. The aliens that are a part of the Federation conspiracy (the group who are changing these aliens to be as weak as possible) are an allegory for HFY writers. Plenty of bad HFY writers make their aliens glorified cannon fodder for humans. Another thing I would like to mention, although it has been done to death in your comment section by now, is that NOP is an HFY story. Putting this into context with what I said in the previous paragraph, this work could be viewed as something written for other HFY authors. And finally, to round out this essay, the theme of desapientization is explored more thoroughly later. When the Federation conspiracy becomes public knowledge, different species/people react differently, thus exploring the different ways that HFY writers can improve their stories. Some double down, of course. Some go the complete opposite direction, violently rejecting everything the Federation stands for, until they engage in acts of terrorism. And some strike a balance, creating a different, distinct version of Federation culture that is their own, instead of having what to think dictated to them from above. Overall, NOP is an interesting story about how authoritarianism affects the way people view the world. It's an interesting read, and the roughly 22% that you have read so far is only the setup to explore the main themes. It's worth a shot if you get around to it. P.S. you are right about the "morality of meat-eating" angle being interesting. NOP doesn't explore that angle that much, if at all. It's a shame, but having multiple different themes that aren't explored enough is one of the weaknesses of NOP already. It doesn't have space for anymore! Guess I have to leave that to the fanfic writers. Edit: grammar
Men I remember reading this on Reddit… on HFY lmao. Many of your complaints gets addressed in that… no clue about the book. I did like it but as an evolutionary biology enthusiast… nothing holds up to scrutiny haha
ger healthy alien james, dont forget making james a good soup alien james :P Has james read the drifters manga, as it does actually deal with humans and war. And in a very fun helsing style. And its fun of course but a lot is also about how one dude brought humans over because they are good and inventive at war while the other side is pretty interesting and also humans, and then historical characters are dropped there. But its also about how humans for better or worse are really good aand inventive at war. Its great. Also the bloodthirsty elves and metal dwarves are great.
Honestly, judging by your description, this whole concept (which could honestly pretty interesting!) falls apart for me simply because its based on an elementary schoolers level of predator and prey relationship. Sure, Scifi doesn't always need to bring out those big, complicated scientific concepts like spacetime, but a 5 minute wikipedia session already brings up more nuanced and, honestly, interesting views on the whole concept. Like, just look at hippos for an example of an aggressive herbivore. Not to speek of the fact that the concepts of "herbivore" and "carnivore" are at times not as strictly seperated as we thought for a long time. Sure, the author was clearly looking for a certain theme in order to create an allegory, but isn't the whole point of an allegory to reflect on a topic and discuss it with a certain nuance?
The thing is, this is only the first part of an adaptation of an online series- and the fact that this information is being presented by the ALIENS as if it was objectively correct is a major plot point, because as you pointed out, nature doesn't actually work that way. This view of the way the world works being wrong is the POINT.
Lmao as a fan of the book it's so infuriating because the author does know and expand on this, it's just that he fails to mention that this is book one of a series and he only read the start
@@cheesypower3282 That honestly makes a WHOLE lot more sense, thanks for adding context! Still, I'm not sure if I wouldn't consider this a flaw regardless; like, there are misconceptions/deliberate bendings of the truth that make sense in the context of a story. But predator/prey relationships are (at least from our earth-perspective) so fundamental and commonplace in any and every version of nature, that any faction that presents them in this simplistic version would be (from my understanding as someone who hasn't read the books, so take this with a bucket of salt xD) kind of equivalent to something like a flat earther... No knock on the book, I don't tend to judge what I haven't read, I'm just not fully convinced it makes sense, judging from an outside perspective :)
@@IamJustaSimpleManMajor spoiler warning: It's basically the product of cultural genocide, gene editing, indoctrination and some other things with the purpose of the twos founding species of the federation maintaining control by fear and persecution of political enemies.
@@IamJustaSimpleMan I mean, comparing it to flat earthers is more accurate than you might think... while I'll not be specific to avoid dropping spoilers, it's very much a case of the aliens operating under an ideology, one that they wholeheartedly believe to be the truth, even when the evidence directly contradicts it. And, just as importantly, this ideology is NOT intrinsic or instinctual to them, it is something that was TAUGHT- and that they are capable of unlearning if they are willing to.
This seems like a concept thought by someone who has a 1st grader understanding of evolution, and an understanding of feeding behavior coming from child's cartoons.
One should point out 2 things this is only 40/184 of the webseries Spoiler warning: That entire predator/prey spiel by the federation is a designed idelogy, if you question it they will literally lock you up in an asylum or outright burn you.
I genuinely am baffled by this video, because I wonder how is it possible to come across this book without knowing that it literally is a book adaptation of one of the most popular HFY serials of all time, only the first part in what will likely be 4-5 book series, or that the rest of the story is available online for free to read. Saying to not read the book and read some HFY instead is like saying that Discworld is whatever and you should read some Terry Pratchett works instead, lol.
It is worth noting I am not talking about critiquing it as a whole, but some specific lines, like not treating it as a first part of the series, which it is, but as a complete thing in and of itself; it being seemingly completely unaware that this book is literally one of the defining ones in recent HFY genre. Most critiques regarding slow pacing and overall plot are perfectly reasonable, it's the cluelessness regarding the context of it's creation that baffles me, and the things that stem from that.
@@Heroman3003 A book being the top story on a random subreddit is irrelevant to its physical release. If you *need* to know all the meta backstory behind it to find enjoyment, that's a bad thing. Don't let biases about the story's popularity blind you to forming your own opinions.
How's my new editing style? Do you like it, love it, or think it's amazing? Say below!
great editing! but i was also thinking what is your tshirt about?
Will a version of you related to the book being reviewed be a regular fixture?
Your editing is much improved. Incorporate the AI into the creative process is most engaging and creates cohesive coherent cohesion that all ages can enjoy. Mostly liked by humans looking for contents about books!
I think there are some advantages to your new editing style. I love it when the inserts add information (although the sfx for the images popping up on screen was a bit too loud for me), and I do like most of the ones that add to the comedy, but I believe you might be overdoing it and making it harder to follow these videos by audio. Kinda disconcerting to have gags so often. Thanks for the change up!
I think the audio gags are a case of "less is more"
I don't think it works for this kind of content and it feels unnecessary and jarring. But I understand the reasoning behind trying it
love the fact that wikipedia had to include one of those misinformation boxes about reptillian humanoids
The box about reptillian humanoids distracted me the entire time. I've never seen that one before!
Lizardmen have just returned from Baikal!
I was laughing my ass off when i saw it.
It's worth pointing out that the thing about evolutionary pressures causing primarily Herbivores to develop sapience might not make sense... but it's told from the perspective of one of said herbivores. And one of the main themes of the book is about prejudices and racism. An Herbivore insisting that "only herbivores become sapient" would be considered racism.
That's what really makes the story click is once you realize that the entire point is you're seeing this story from the perspective of DEEPLY PREJUDICED people, and that you shouldn't be taking their views on how the galaxy works at face value.
Mayor spoilers for the second half of the history (that can only be found in reddit): The reason why every species has deevolved into a caricature of their former selves is because the federation's first contact protocol consists on burning down and rewriting cultures, histories, ecosistems, and the population's DNA.
So, they are The Qu?
Very discount Qu
All because they couldn't figure out prions kek
@@GraingyAircraftyes
It can also be found on Royal road! The whole 170~ chapters of it
That book is only a fifth of the first story. The rest of it is on reddit. Also there is a sequel being written.
"Well if that's racism, I guess I'm racist."
Banger line, 10/10
Unfortunately i think a lot of this book suffers from being incomplete, with a lot of the important information that handles a lot of your criticism currently only available online as the other novels get printed
I'd love to see a return to it with the context of the rest of the first run.
(Also the community behind this book has ran with the worldbuilding and made some of the highest quality fanfic I've ever read)
well it's nice to know that this gets addressed later
Giving it some thought, The book might have been much better off, had it been just a little longer, so that it reached some of those big reveals.
@@oobanoobaisterrible it already hit 500 pages, any more and the spine would've snapped
@@prcervi I mean, Sanderson and Martin managed to make a 1000+ book on a paperback. Granted, the spine looks like it has scoliosis, but it works.
@@diewott1337 i had one of my 800 page books dropped before (it was being shuffled between 3 people) and that poor thing has since been held together by strong tape and crossed fingers
Did the book contain all chapters of the online shortstory? The later chapters had some explanation for why there are no brawly, combative herbivores in the federation
it only has 40 chapters of the 184 total chapters so it lacks a lot of the big reveals
Illuminati orchestrated everything
then why did it start with that premise?
@@catfan913 Cus world building has rules? And there is no exposition machine that just says important stuff, what was said here was literally being kept a secret by the top governments. You can't just find that explanation from nowhere.
Anyone who thinks herbivores can't be dangerous has never heard about why they have their horns or hooves. Something like a moose or a Rhino will choose violence rather than just running away.
Yeah, African buffalo kill more people than lions. They are tough hombres.
The first book is only the first act, alot of the twists are in acts 2 and 3
That assestment is by design mind ya (the paperback only covers about 40 chapters of the 184 chapter long webseries that is NoP 1)
Everything you said has been covered in the future chapters, this book only covers 1/5 of the story
I'd say anyone who thinks that herbivore = vegeterian just haven't spend enough time with them. They can and will eat fresh or cooked meat if they get access to it. And they can and will eat other animals if they can. Like, horse can eat alive a grounded bird. Or your fingers if you're careleess enough. Rabbits can eat their offspring. They usually won't eat smth that's already dead and cold, but we (human omnivores) won't eat that thing too, because, well, food poisoning. Herbivores are not _designed_ (by evolution) for hunt, but they are also not _not designed_ for violence.
Why are you & the alien wearing matching shirts?! 😂😂😂
He was borrowing mine. Couldn't let him be on camera nude.
@@JamesTullos Still a better lovestory than Twilight!
A lot of your complaints have plot relevance
They lose a lot of relevance in later chapters, for context this a web novel series that got partially adapted into this book, the book itself is meant to retcon certain aspects of earlier chapters that didn’t fit in line with what the rest of the series would become(and also to make money). Most(key word MOST) of the plot criticisms fall off by chapter 80 and get replaced with lesser but still relevant new ones by chapter 120 and on top of that several narrative dead ends of actually really bold concepts showed up and disappeared because the fanbase kept making dark jokes and memes and the author took and certain brain dead morons took them to seriously in 2 very different ways each making the “third act” of the original story rather messy and that messiness has continued on into the second much more controversial series.
Before watching - HOLY FUCKIN SHIT I NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS WOULD HAVE EXPECTED A BOOK UA-camR I WATCH TO COVER NOP. EVEN IF HE SHITS ON IT LETS FUCKING GO
and majority of shitting on it is due to the writing style curse of a chapter by chapter published story, and cutting off before revalations about the setting start helping explain all the oddities
nature of predators started on hfy and is currently something like 250 chapters with a new chapter every Wednesday and Saturday.
The physical book only covers the first 40 chapters. Since it's being actively made the author is reacting and addressing some of the issues you mentioned.
I hope you revisit the series when the next physical adaptation comes but if it's not your thing then it's not your thing.
I can’t be mad at this book because it got me into sci fi reading and even had a neat little community behind it that got me into writing fan fics. I didn’t think mine were that great, but they were fun to write and collaborate with.
which ones did you write if I might ask? ^^
"I guess I'm racist" James it's been half a minute XD
At least I let you know quickly.
Tullos racist confirmed 👍
That's what reading the nature of predators does to ya. If any bird people exist, they better watch out...
based
Honestly a lot of the wierd worldbuilding you mentioned is actually explained in the later chapters and ties in quite well to the plot. Even of your only judging the print book as a standalone thing which is valid it would probably be good to mention that its only around 1/4 of the full story posted online for free.
So review of a review, as a fan of the series…Warning there are spoilers ahead……
First review I’ve seen of this on UA-cam so far, so it was cool to see.
But the entire video I was going “most of your complaints are literally addressed later.”
Like all sapient species except two in NOP1 being herbivores is because of a different reason we learn later (not Tarva’s explanation in chapter one, but because of social brainwashing and genetic engineering we learn in the omnivore reveal).
Or most prey species being skittish and running away at everything unlike a lot of earth herbivores being due to factors such as brainwashing (which we see in “The Gentling” with the Venlil) or due to societal factors (most aggression being considered “predator disease” and they do things like lock up, drug, sterilize, or electroshock people for that).
The whole review I was like “please read more this is addressed later and this series has unreliable narrators that give you a lot of false info.” 😭
To be fair, I think the physical copy is only like the first 40 or so chapters plus a patreon story or two? I can’t expect some book reviewer to read a few hundred only online chapters that aren’t in print yet at the time of my comment (between NOP 1, NOP 2, and patreon).
Oh hey, a video on something I’ve already read. And yeah, there’s some aspects you just kinda have to… not think about. As for the logic of “prey are naturally in unity, predators will only murder you”… I’ll say that’s very much intentionally a blindspot/wrongness in the Federation. The rest of the book is online, you kinda just got the first portion of it in the print version.
had they heard of hippos
Yeah if you keep reading the story that's been posted online some of the strange bits that don't really make sense actually get explained later on as the actual plot gets uncovered (I will not disagree that there is a lot of reading to get through before things are revealed)
I’d love for another alien from the same planet to show up and be like, “Oh, the guy with the green antennas? No we don’t talk like that. We don’t even have those. He just likes to mess with people. He’s kind of a jerk”.
I like the new editing style, however, to nit-pick, I do think the little "beeeep" after a skit ends is a bit of a waste of time. usually, that would work as a 'detox' from the prior tone, but since it's already a fairly comedy-based however genuine review video, we're going from a written-out gag to natural-flowing gag humour. so, I just think a "beeeep" cut doesn't add much, and it's funnier if it goes back to your genuine review after the gag (the alien gag was funny btw, i just think the "beeep" can make it feel more formulaic). also, the bit where you lampshaded the expectation of the alien being a one-time gag was my favourite gag.
Agreed
That's barely half of the entire story, it's pretty long, but I'm guessing the rest of it isn't published into a book yet
No it’s not fully published yet
Congratulations on having a misinformation box I guess. Never thought I'd need to be told lizardmen aren't real.
I haven't finished the video, but I'm already really frustrated because it feels like literally all of your complaints are things that become plot points later in the series, after the chapters that were included in the first book. The Nature of Predators was released as a serialized web story with well over 100 pages (and that's if you don't include all the side stories and the sequel series set 20 years later), and the book you read was only 40 of them.
Nature of Predators is fundamentally a story about institutionalized bigotry and how living in a bigoted society with a rigid social binary that's allegedly based on biology but fails to acknowledge its complexities rots your brain, and that's why I as a trans person have always adored it.
I came across this series on Reddit a few months ago, and I remember reading through the first 30-or-so chapters before I got tired of it. And your assessment -- a good premise that's too spread out -- is my main complaint as well.
After reading all that, I checked Nature of Predators's TvTropes page (I'm that sort of person) and found out that there were some interesting-sounding twists that re-contextualized a lot of the series...but they didn't kick in until around chapter 100! And at that point, it just wasn't worth the effort to catch up to them.
I honestly think a lot of NoP fanfics are better than the main series, if only because they don't stretch themselves out as much and focus more on individual characters.
Well James the book is a HFY story but got so popular they pushed the writer for a fizikal release
also spoiler alert the reason everybody is a herbivor is they were devolved by the federation
most of them were omnivores before they got screwed over
and thats just the meat they also got theres legs and spines twisted etc
It boggles my mind how you say just go read some r/hfy stories, when NoP is literally one of the most well known r/hfy story over there. First series done at 186 chapters, with the second already at 66 chapters.
went and checked a thing, this is actively being released chapter by chapter on their patreon and the latest full chapter was listed as 2-67
it's ongoing and glancing at other comments the unresolved plot threads will be coming back with a vengeance, also stories published chapter by chapter just seem to have that quality of being a bit padded so each update doesn't come across as short and the author wasn't doing jack
The idea that herbivores are timid and peaceful is so strange. I had rabbits all my life, they are fully vegan but if you don't introduce a new rabbit properly to the rest they might maul each other to death. Those little cute fuzzy creatures are vicious.
Well in the story it's strange too, it's an artificial idelogy forced upon the federation with very opressive methods
That becomes addressed in the later chapters
hmmm had they heard of a hippo
@@Nockgun One of the federation species, the takans even look like biped ones XD
But yeah as mentioned above that way of thinking is drilled into the fed members with often quite brutal methods.
The "Predator Disease" Facilities are basically oldschool asylums with the full program from electroshocks to lobotomy to take care of "agressive" or "herdless" individuals, most of the time this means either folks who don't shit their pants when confronted by adversaries (exterminators aside those are allowed to have a backbone since they are directly answering to the federation), or political prisoners.... or people asking exactly these kind of questions.
@@Denterify2 hippos are a menace man
I'd argue Predators are more likely to be social than your average Herbivorous creature because "Plants" are less nutritious than meat. Plants are literally everywhere, and unless a species is specialized into a specific plant or part of it, then being territorial will make its food source less competitive and help its survival in times of drought or other conditions where food is scarce.
There are, of course, exceptions, but most are either small and need less food or larger and eat a specialized diet. Such as Grazers where there's no need to defend land or food since they move so much and all benefit from there being more targets, or Frugivores who eat calorically dense fruit and can afford to share a little more in exchange for a bigger group, but these animals tend to be fiercely territorial as a collective, like Chimps and some Parrots.
Yeah you don't need to evolve pack hunting in order to eat grass. Hunting requires a coordination that herbivores never get close too. Like, zebras all just kinda run in the same direction. They don't have any kind of rudimentary tactics that lions have.
@alexanderchippel Some Herbivores have incredibly complex and tight nit social structures like Elephant and Horses, but for every 1 of those there's dozens of Solitary animals like Giraffes and Moose. It does depend and you really shouldn't under estimate how smart and complex some Herbivores are, even if they are an overall minority when it comes to complex animal groups.
@@lamotou4banana383 Elephants are pretty intelligent but they're the outlier. And horses are not intelligent. Whenever they see a predator, all they do is just follow the leader. That's how humans were able to domesticate horses so easily. Once the leader of the heard was tamed, all the other horses just followed along.
@alexanderchippel Horses have some pretty Complex Social behavior and dominance system, the fact that they can be taken over by a Human goes to show it's fluidity more than anything else. You are right in the regard that Horses are not particularly intelligent, but they do go far beyond the mindless herds that most other social Herbivores have.
@@alexanderchippel Hunting in groups like humans. But not every species would be as incapable of hunting on their own as humans are.
I remember reading part of this story in reddit.
That alien gag made me think this was going to be a review like the one you did for The Elite Trials.
It was a reddit webseries before on r/HFY I think.
still is and still is being written, the paperback is only 40 chapters of the 184 chapters of the first series
I really loved the alien skit reappearing over and over. Loved the dog in the desert approach.
Edit: ahh, the book is missing the last half of the web-novel. That would explain it. Sorry for jumping the gun.
4:10 "it's a humanity f yeah story that went on way too long" I hate to break it to you, that's literally what it is. It's a story originally written and released chapter by chapter over a couple years on a subreddit called r/hfy. I'm surprised you were unaware of this. Did you actually finish the book? Or even make it half way through? Because, if you did, you would know the reason for the aliens not making much sense. Because it is revealed why these are the way they are. It's not even that the explanations are necessarily good explanations. There's plenty you could criticize about them. But you don't even bring them up to do so.
In case you're interested. The founder species of the federation was genetically modifying obstinate, aggressive, or omnivorous species to become meek, weak, and allergic to meat. As well as literally killing every animal that eats meat that they can. And then re-enforcing 'prey' behaviors by drugging and lobotomizing dissenters and the mentally ill.
not just half 40/184 Chapters XD
alright, so, i've been a NoP fan for a while, and while I get It's just your opinion, you must understand that the reason it felt "incomplete" is because you didnt read the entire story. The paperback only includes the first 40 chapters, and a lot of your (frankly reasonable) complaints are explained and make a lot more sense later in the story, which is online. while its definitely not a perfect story, you gotta read the whole thing before you judge it (just like any other book). I don't mean any ill will towards yourself, I just wanted to say my part.
:)
Excellent audio version by "adastra science fiction stories" with multiple voices and sounds
The thing I appreciate about your reviews is that they're oddly really good at selling me on my type of trash. Like, it's easy to guess how I might feel reading the same material based on your reactions and descriptions, regardless of how closely our tastes align in that moment.
I also just find interesting ideas with lousy execution to be really endearing for some reason, in that "they're a little confused but they got the spirit" sort of way.
Real shame about the repetitive/boring bits, though. I wonder if those recaps are an artifact of the book originally being an online serial.
I think Larry Niven's Known Space books had a really neat interpretation of a sapient "prey" species. Pierson's Puppeteers evolved from herding animals so most of them prefer to be near their own kind (even if via simulated noises and smells), and their political decisions - no matter how horrible they are for everyone else - are always in service of the species' continued safety. Even Puppeteer furniture is all rounded and blended together to minimise the risk of a sharp edge hurting them by accident.
I am a fan of the introduction song. I mean, its not very good, but its not too long.
i wasnt aware this was made into a book i only read it from reddit
Only chapters 1-40 including the mini series, his complaints don’t hold water once you begin the 2nd Act
I agree with your criticisms in general, but I do think the story is worth continuing with to a point - there's a lot of twists and interesting shifts in the information everybody is working on that makes the story and setting significantly more unique and fascinating. In addition, we eventually get an Arxur viewpoint character who's definitely the most interesting and fun part of the series as a whole. He's honestly my favorite character.
...I still got bored eventually though. The humanity fuck yeah vibes never really go away and once you've got a full understanding of the situation, the plot to actually resolving it just feels... overly stretched out.
The main issue is Carnivores vs Herbivores is a very limited understanding of dietary requirements. We know for a fact some herbivores can digest meat perfectly fine, and vice versa for carnivores, for example some herbivores eat antlers and bone as a mineral supplement While carnivores can partake in spoilt fruit as it mimics the effect of drunkenness. . Also in the context of this story, it glosses over potential need for animal products in a number of different areas. Such as industrial applications, fashion applications and so on and do forth. Not to mention the aspects of how herbivores can be inter competitive just like any species and could fight over mates and land for example.
The idea of Herbivores = cooperative is tied to very outdated and unscientific justification.
I might point out with a spoiler warning
This is all by design, the federation forces this kind of thinking on it's members, often at gunpoint under the threat of genocide and commited already several eradications of outliers that threaten their narrative.
People who don't fit in the "Heard" idea are labled "predator diseased" and locked away.
For example all former omnivorus species in the federation were genemoded into herbivority and their histories ereased.
And about the Arxur, like the CiS in Star Wars they are just puppets to the federation leadership to keep the war up and the unifying narrative "valid".
Yea, unscientific is the word. If you read the rest of the story, the underlying justification for a lot of the nonsense in the book is moral panic rather than rationality
0:26 Oh, boy. _Someone_ is clipping this and putting it after some very messed up stuff, sir.
I can't wait.
I didn't realize I missed your silly skits.
I did almost ask, What different editing style, but I think I got it. I like it, I like the pings and other noises.
I did die with the clip of the giraffe stomping on the lions or whatever, I don't know why, it just looked so goofy and like the giraffe didn't mean to do if but it's just a stick figure in meat form, it couldn't stop doing it.
1:29 I wasn't looking at the screen, and I thought the alien swore at you in response to your question.
Advice, go to Royal road and read the full story, not having all the context is realy hurting almost all your criticisms.
Beastars does a pretty interesting look at an intelligent predator/prey society, in my opionion. It also has the furries.
To say the paperback is only 40/184 Chapters and many complaints actually get adressed/have plot relevance
The intro made me laugh, 10/10
is this maybe a hint to use that you might be looking into Sci-fi? if you need some ideas for what to make a video on, Please look into "The Doona Trilogy [ Decision at Doona , Crisis on Doona and finally Treaty at Doona ] by Anne McCaffrey and the other two books worked with Jody Lynn Nye . that first contact series is not just a special bad but also old fashioned weird as heck.
So the book is only the first 40 or so chapters of the 160 chapter long story. Most of the major things like omnivores other than humans not existing, the arxur being comically evil, and the herbivores being massive cowards are actually explained later on. There are reasons why the aliens are the ways they are. All of those surface level ideas you talk about are greatly expanded upon.
9:00 I strongly recommend you read "The word for world is forest" by Ursula K Le Guin! It’s a novella which explores this theme and the type of book that had me stare at a wall in deep thought for several moments after I finished it
If you want a good sci-fi book to read, try a Long Way to a Small Angry Plant by Becky Chambers. I really liked the charecter writing in it.
I was looking for a comment that recommend Becky Chamber! Exactly the type of book that’s ideas based
It seems kinda reverse with evolutionary history and social evolution it usually makes more sense for omnivores or carnivores who are scavengers and hunters to develop intelligence not only for group strategies, but they also need to go long time alive if thy can't hunt, they should be able to outsmart the prey, they should be smart enough to not over-hunt as that would cause them to die out too, They should need to be able to develop and vary in their ways of getting food so they could eventually develop domestication and agriculture not just for food but also for other tasks. Herbivores usually are also not great at voluntary symbiosis, when their food doesn't require them to be.
In some sense this is a plotpoint in the full story (the paperback is atm only 40/184 chapters)
I have an interesting concept in mind. What if there were aliens with troubled digestive systems that stole human livers to digest tastier things?
Love the editing of this one.
Have you ever read Hominids by Robert Sawyer? It's about an alternate worth where Neanderthals became the dominant race.
Reminds me a lot of The Damned Trilogy by Alan Dean Foster
You need to read anything by Adrian Tchaikovsky. He's probably the best modern sci-fi writer
I read this on reddit and mostly liked it there. My biggest complaint was that the fight scenes had too little descriptions. I was never sure where the characters were, how many people were on each side or what the environment looks like. Maybe this was improved in the print version, but without descriptions it can be hard to stay invested
Have a good recovery if you're still sick!
5:26 This... _unfortunately..._ reminds me of a video that recently came out of India.
A tourist was gored after trying to... uhm, well, *_"Ride"_* a bull there.
Yes, herbivores can defend themselves when the need arises. _Thankfully._
I've been following the story online because I find the universe/concept interesting, but I've also found that many of the fanfics have much better stories.
1:58 i think what they mean is that it encourages interspecies cooperation instead of competition 😊
Better premise: what if all vegans were alien?
Would make a lot more sense
As for a story about a people who only know peace encountering war, read The Word for World is Forest by Ursula K Leguinn
I was there when first chapters of NoP were written.
My memory may be faulty, and some parts may be retconned - but weren't ost species previously upliften from erathy animals, and then rediscovered by humans?
because i'm sure there was story like that, and i cannot point anything past NoP.
That's interestingly the opposite of the world I'm making. The society (or societies) in my story, the Varebalka, are carnivorous human descendants that evolved for around 4 million years consuming the bodies of other humans in stasis in a Dyson Swarm around Wolf 359. Long story short, they arrive on a wild Ice Age Earth (Southern Ireland to be more specific) by hijacking one of the Galactic AI's ships. They created the institution of the Woodwardens, a kind of fully independent knightly order that works as a kind of government over the more forested central regions, and are structured in a similar way to the Catholic Church, being a meritocratic hierarchy (a Woodwarden is pictured in my profile icon). Their functions include upkeeping trading routes and lodges for hunters that can be rented in a seasonal basis, offering hunting licences (that are priced according to supply and demand of certain species) and butchering services, doing hunts themselves to sell the meat at an upcharge, scientific and environmental analyses of their forests, enforce Forest Law, and actual military security of the territory itself. They are funded by their own profits rather than by taxation. They go through a rigorous training process and are more educated and athletic than most other Varebalka. They're aided by the hukin, superintelligent ravens that are capable of following complex instructions (such as surveillance, scouting and couriering) and utilizing the Varebalka language (and the wrowga language, they're intelligent wolves native to the territory, but that's another story). Also, the Varebalka organize in freely associating packs of families that hunt together and acquire hunting licences and lodge rentals together.
I coul swear this was a reddit fanfiction.
It was, its a series on HFY
It's not fanfiction if it isn't based on something else. It's just fiction.
627 views in one hour? Fell off (/j)
never heard of this but vegan anything is based af
It's the first 40 chapters of an online webseries that's currently over 250 chapters in length.
Also, the veganism as depicted in NoP is anything but based.
2:00 Biology major here. You're right, that logic isn’t logicking. All animals are in competition both within their population (natural selection, survival of the fittest and all) and between populations or species (think two herbivores living in the same habitat with the same feeding preferences and limited resources).
Actually, I find it hard to imagine a world where herbivory means less competition, unless there’s some kind of parasitism to cull exponential population growth or niches that are so separate from each other that every species has discrete feeding preferences and the food is abundant enough to not compete. But that’s ignoring all the other factors in one's niche. I mean, I’m sure it’s not impossible, but not for the reasoning that the author gives.
Also, apologies if I used any incorrect terminology, I’m not an ecology major, just thinking back to the few compulsory ecology courses I took some time ago.
Also, 100% herbivory would suggest none of these species eat insects, zooplankton, there are no parasites nor scavengers, which would really limit the diversity of the food web
@@sophs8548
Gotta point out the book is only 40/184 chapters of the webstory so far
Spoiler warning
You are correct in those assestments and the people in charge of the federation know this too, a large portion of federation species used to be omnivorus but got genemoded and culturally sanitised by the federation to fit into their narratives.
Also the federation is extremly destructive towards their ecosystems wiping out pretty much all predatory , omnivorus(albeit to them those are predators too) and most herbivorus animals with very few exceptions.
@@Denterify2 well, that explains a lot! Maybe I'll have to look into the series as anything sci-fi with an evolutionary bio twist is definitely up my alley.
Yeah, it doesn't make sense and a zoologist in the book saids as much. It's resolved in one of the twists down the line. The full story is available online.
@@sophs8548Do it
Anyone else here because NoPcord said there was drama in the comments? 😅
This herbivore evolution idea is stupid.
You need more strategy for hunting animals than grass.
Not to mention that plants are usually less nutritious and require more digestion, meaning eating takes more time and energy from you.
Yes it being stupid is a plotpoint in the later chapters that are atm only available in the webnovel version
So basically, this book is good, but preachy and has a weird theme?
It's definetly an enjoyable read, on preachy and wierd theme that is issu is more that the paperback is atm only 40/184 chapters and many of the issues are plot relevant
@@Denterify2I've never felt like this book was preachy at first but maybe that's because I knew this was only the beginning and they needed to do exposition.
Plus since on reddit it is heavily divided into chapters, the info is dosed and so it doesn't bother you.
@@adamsukowski4074 I felt it a bit too concerning marcel but considering how everything turned out in hindsight no longer XD
Interesting how you're saying 'Er-be-VOR-us instead of Her-BI-vor-us.
I think it's reasonable that a super advanced race would also have the capacity to produce nutritious food without cattle ranching. Traveling long distances in space practically requires this technology. It's not really talked about in Star Trek but everyone on those ships basically has to be vegan. You ever see any chicken coups?
I'm honestly surprised that this book has 460+ pages according to Amazon, since I checked the posts on Reddit (from 1-40, which seems to be what's included in this book) and each one of them barely seem to be long enough to fill 5 pages each, so I'm not sure where the other half of the book comes from LOL
The 40 chapters are from page 3 to 387. From page 388 to 456 are smaller in-universe stories that were patreon-only. From 457 to 464 are information about the species and page 465 contains three frequently asked questions.
@@ScrepterWrites A bit more understandable. Although I don't think I ever saw a book with FAQs at the end. That's intriguing.
Then we would win
Men I remember reading this on Reddit and many of your complaints gets addressed in that… no clue about the book. I did like it but as an evolutionary biology enthusiast… nothing holds up to scrutiny haha
I'd like to preface this by saying that I am caught up in NOP1 and 2. I have not shelled out on the Patreon side stories yet.
Based on your reasons for disliking other HFY stories in that other video of yours, I think you would most likely enjoy the rest of Nature of Predators 1 (NOP1). Because, well, the story, in my opinion, is a critique of how HFY writers desapientize aliens. The theme here is that aliens all being the same is BAD, because other people deserve to have their own culture. To make other races be nothing but weak punching bags, is desapientizing. The aliens that are a part of the Federation conspiracy (the group who are changing these aliens to be as weak as possible) are an allegory for HFY writers. Plenty of bad HFY writers make their aliens glorified cannon fodder for humans.
Another thing I would like to mention, although it has been done to death in your comment section by now, is that NOP is an HFY story. Putting this into context with what I said in the previous paragraph, this work could be viewed as something written for other HFY authors.
And finally, to round out this essay, the theme of desapientization is explored more thoroughly later. When the Federation conspiracy becomes public knowledge, different species/people react differently, thus exploring the different ways that HFY writers can improve their stories. Some double down, of course. Some go the complete opposite direction, violently rejecting everything the Federation stands for, until they engage in acts of terrorism. And some strike a balance, creating a different, distinct version of Federation culture that is their own, instead of having what to think dictated to them from above.
Overall, NOP is an interesting story about how authoritarianism affects the way people view the world. It's an interesting read, and the roughly 22% that you have read so far is only the setup to explore the main themes. It's worth a shot if you get around to it.
P.S. you are right about the "morality of meat-eating" angle being interesting. NOP doesn't explore that angle that much, if at all. It's a shame, but having multiple different themes that aren't explored enough is one of the weaknesses of NOP already. It doesn't have space for anymore! Guess I have to leave that to the fanfic writers.
Edit: grammar
Well that was unexpected 😮
Men I remember reading this on Reddit… on HFY lmao. Many of your complaints gets addressed in that… no clue about the book. I did like it but as an evolutionary biology enthusiast… nothing holds up to scrutiny haha
where did you get the shirt its insane
Ok algorithm 👍👍
ger healthy alien james,
dont forget making james a good soup alien james :P
Has james read the drifters manga, as it does actually deal with humans and war. And in a very fun helsing style. And its fun of course but a lot is also about how one dude brought humans over because they are good and inventive at war while the other side is pretty interesting and also humans, and then historical characters are dropped there.
But its also about how humans for better or worse are really good aand inventive at war. Its great. Also the bloodthirsty elves and metal dwarves are great.
Honestly, judging by your description, this whole concept (which could honestly pretty interesting!) falls apart for me simply because its based on an elementary schoolers level of predator and prey relationship.
Sure, Scifi doesn't always need to bring out those big, complicated scientific concepts like spacetime, but a 5 minute wikipedia session already brings up more nuanced and, honestly, interesting views on the whole concept. Like, just look at hippos for an example of an aggressive herbivore. Not to speek of the fact that the concepts of "herbivore" and "carnivore" are at times not as strictly seperated as we thought for a long time.
Sure, the author was clearly looking for a certain theme in order to create an allegory, but isn't the whole point of an allegory to reflect on a topic and discuss it with a certain nuance?
The thing is, this is only the first part of an adaptation of an online series- and the fact that this information is being presented by the ALIENS as if it was objectively correct is a major plot point, because as you pointed out, nature doesn't actually work that way. This view of the way the world works being wrong is the POINT.
Lmao as a fan of the book it's so infuriating because the author does know and expand on this, it's just that he fails to mention that this is book one of a series and he only read the start
@@cheesypower3282 That honestly makes a WHOLE lot more sense, thanks for adding context!
Still, I'm not sure if I wouldn't consider this a flaw regardless; like, there are misconceptions/deliberate bendings of the truth that make sense in the context of a story. But predator/prey relationships are (at least from our earth-perspective) so fundamental and commonplace in any and every version of nature, that any faction that presents them in this simplistic version would be (from my understanding as someone who hasn't read the books, so take this with a bucket of salt xD) kind of equivalent to something like a flat earther...
No knock on the book, I don't tend to judge what I haven't read, I'm just not fully convinced it makes sense, judging from an outside perspective :)
@@IamJustaSimpleManMajor spoiler warning:
It's basically the product of cultural genocide, gene editing, indoctrination and some other things with the purpose of the twos founding species of the federation maintaining control by fear and persecution of political enemies.
@@IamJustaSimpleMan I mean, comparing it to flat earthers is more accurate than you might think... while I'll not be specific to avoid dropping spoilers, it's very much a case of the aliens operating under an ideology, one that they wholeheartedly believe to be the truth, even when the evidence directly contradicts it.
And, just as importantly, this ideology is NOT intrinsic or instinctual to them, it is something that was TAUGHT- and that they are capable of unlearning if they are willing to.
This seems like a concept thought by someone who has a 1st grader understanding of evolution, and an understanding of feeding behavior coming from child's cartoons.
One should point out 2 things
this is only 40/184 of the webseries
Spoiler warning:
That entire predator/prey spiel by the federation is a designed idelogy, if you question it they will literally lock you up in an asylum or outright burn you.
interesting
mmmmmm reddit books
hhhhhh intro wooooorth the racist intro +1
Hmmmmmmmm it does really seem like a humans f yeah story
It kitterally is the first 40 chapters of a much longer and more fleshed out story where most of his complaints are actually explained later on
It was originally published on /r/hfy
Cute antennae!
Sounds like Avatar.
in what sense`?
I genuinely am baffled by this video, because I wonder how is it possible to come across this book without knowing that it literally is a book adaptation of one of the most popular HFY serials of all time, only the first part in what will likely be 4-5 book series, or that the rest of the story is available online for free to read. Saying to not read the book and read some HFY instead is like saying that Discworld is whatever and you should read some Terry Pratchett works instead, lol.
SP published it as a standalone book, so it will be viewed as one.
Yeah, it's a published book. It's perfectly reasonable to criticize it as one.
indeed, it is a book worthy of criticism whether or not it's incomplete
It is worth noting I am not talking about critiquing it as a whole, but some specific lines, like not treating it as a first part of the series, which it is, but as a complete thing in and of itself; it being seemingly completely unaware that this book is literally one of the defining ones in recent HFY genre. Most critiques regarding slow pacing and overall plot are perfectly reasonable, it's the cluelessness regarding the context of it's creation that baffles me, and the things that stem from that.
@@Heroman3003 A book being the top story on a random subreddit is irrelevant to its physical release. If you *need* to know all the meta backstory behind it to find enjoyment, that's a bad thing. Don't let biases about the story's popularity blind you to forming your own opinions.
This feels like fanfiction that someone wrote for their Stellaris campaign.
Is it really more risky to be a predator when your prey doesn't fight to defend themselves?
👍
First time im this early
If James Tullos reviewed your comment as a book he would call it unoriginal
@@Jon-Rimmer Im just saying how it is mate 🤷, no need to get pissy about it.
@@Veles_Ra Sorry
The forever war is a better version of this book.
The Forever war is also just the first 40 chapters of an ongoing webseries that's currently at over 250 chapters?