Thank you for having me on for this discussion Philip! I feel like I walked away with some new perspective and I never tire of talking about this series :) Can’t wait for the next one!
This was a fantastic discussion, it brought back all the good (and bad/traumatic) memories of this series for me ;) Really cool to have a panel where people actually disagree on their favourite characters, loved hearing about everyone's different perspectives. Though how Jimmy enjoys reading from Bero's POV will forever remain a mystery to me, hahaha. I am already looking forward to future discussions, this series really does only get better and better! Thanks so much for sharing 🤩
You're right, Philip--fantastic and enlightening discussion. I've said before that I've rarely gasped aloud more reading any other series. But what's implied but not said there is that I actually care enough--about the characters and their circumstance--to have that sort of shocked reaction to reading a story. It's masterfully done. I actually like Legacy and War better than City, fwiw. (My preference goes in reverse order of the sequence.) The wider Lee went, story wise, my interest and investment only grew. Thanks to you all!
That's great to hear about your increasing investment in the trilogy with each book, Vaughn. I agree with you about how Lee gets us to care about the characters. Cheers, my friend!
The Way of Edan was amazing! Oh, we’re talking about Jade City in this video 😁. This was truly a great discussion with great points all around! This made me realize I’ve forgotten several details, but I do remember Lan, Hilo, and Shae. I also remember thinking that Lee captured some good subtle and believable family dyanmics during the funeral scene. We know Taylor and Hillary loved the whole trilogy. Hope the same holds true for you and Jimmy!
Ha ha! You and Jimmy appear to be on the same page. Or, the same book, in this case . . . 😁 I’m impressed with Jade City and look forward to the rest of Green Bone Saga. Cheers, Johanna! 😊
Great discussion! Can't wait to get to the Jade Legacy version of this chat and see how your perceptions of the characters change as you read the next two books, especially Hilo
Great discussion! These deep dives into character and themes are the reason I love UA-cam and especially these long format conversations. I liked Jade City. However, jade legacy is my fav in this trilogy. Can't wait for the Jade War discussion, and your thoughts about it Phillip.
I heartily approve of Jimmy's shameless plugging on Philip's behalf. Also, yes, Taylor--they are *definitely* going to know which scene in Jade War you were talking about 😝
Wonderful panel discussion on a phenomenal book. I have Jade War down as my first read for May and I can't wait. Everyone brought up so many amazing themes and I would add that choice and family pressure against choice is a fascinating theme that ties particularly with Shay's storyline. Who, coincidentally is my favourite character in Jade City.
Thank you, Luke! I’m excited to tackle the rest of Green Bone Saga, and if you release videos on it, I hope to check them out. I hope you’re doing well!
Just finished the first book and came to UA-cam looking for discussion about it, i was so thrill to find your discussion, been getting more into books thanks to your reviews of vinland saga with merphy so you are partly to blame for my new obsessions xD
I really enjoyed this kind of long-form, group discussion around a book. I read Jade City and enjoyed it, however I feel I enjoy it more now after hearing you guys talk about the themes and characters. Great work and love the content!!
I love this book, just finished jade cityand about to read jade war. I just can't stop reading this trilogy. Oh, and I loved Hilo, though I do wish Lan didn't die soo soon.
I feel the same way about Lan, though I had a bad feeling early on. Best wishes for Jade War - it started a little slow for me, but I loved it by the end.
What a wonderful discussion ! I absolutely loved this book so much ! I can't wait to read book 2 which I heard it's even better. *cough Bookborn thinks not :D
Great discussion! For some reason I never really got into the books when reading them myself, but hearing people discuss them makes me want to like them. I've soft DNF'D the series after Jade War, but everytime someone talks about this series I think about picking up Jade Legacy. I'll probably break down and finally read it when y'all get to it.
Ayt Mada MVP! And finally, I don't feel completely alone in not loving Hilo. What a great conversation! Love the deconstruction of the characters and their respective places in the plot and in that world.
I’m glad you enjoyed the discussion, Susanna! Ayt Mada is extremely formidable, and I’d love to get her POV in the next two books or at least learn more about her. Cheers!
Nearly done reading this for the first time, and man is it ADDICTING. Excellent storytelling and memorable characters. I had a few issues with some of the content - sexual content and language, specifically - mainly just because it really felt sort of forced? Like Lee was trying to prove to us this book was NOT young adult like her previous work. Not really necessary. Otherwise, really excellent, and would certainly suggest it.
I'm glad you're enjoying it, Trent! To be honest, I didn't notice the cursing so much, but I would be fine with losing the sex scenes in the book because, to me, they didn't add much that couldn't have been delivered in a different sort of scene. All the best!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I agree - I think as the book goes along, the language makes more sense and fits in more seamlessly. The sex scenes were awkward though and definitely felt unnecessary. And hey - congrats on YOUR new book! So pumped for you!
Great discussion. Kind of annoyed certain ppl kept referring to the other 2 books since I haven’t read them yet. Felt like I learned which characters make it to the end or at least to the final book. Wish I didn’t know that. Overall really appreciated the video, thanks.
I'm glad you enjoyed the discussion overall! I'm about to read the third book (we had our Jade War discussion over at Maed Between the Pages), and I'm looking forward to seeing how the trilogy ends. All the best!
Such a great discussion! I had so many thoughts but only retained a few afterward. LOL. I do have a soft spot for Hilo BUT I am never fooled that he is a "good" guy. He's not. Very much not. But he is fascinating, as are Shae and Anden. And the antagonists. And Bero is definitelya cockroach. LOL. I wanted the clan to do well but knew that wasn't always an option given the world they live in. Or maybe it was an option but they didn't make those decisions at all times. So fascinating reading how it all played out and rooting for them and also lamenting some things and the fallout. Great series
Hi 👋 sorry not been here lately my husband passed away last week.. keeping myself getting back normality a little.. I’ve purchased ur book look forward reading ur book! I will review on my Instagram page as soon I will read it.. happy reading to you!! 😊
Jade City was pretty decent for a first book in a trilogy. I really liked Taylor's insights. In Jade War, a certain someone does something that makes me abhor them to no end. You'll know when you get there.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Aw, thank you, Philip! But how can a day where I don't have time to watch one of your wonderful discussion videos be excellent?😞
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Hoping in return that those endorphins from the success of your book will get you effortlessly through the rest of the week!
Hilo is my guy... He's doing the best he can with the mantle he was given. Y'all are right he's a thug but doesn't hide it but you can see he's changing and maturing into his role but still doesn't take any crap.
Spoilers for about halfway through Jade City: Pretty early on, I felt pretty confident Lan was going to die. As soon as he got that letter from his ex-wife and put it in his desk drawer, I said out loud: "He's a dead man," because I knew he would die just so he wouldn't be able to read the letter later like he planned to.
Interesting takes. I really enjoyed Jade City a lot, but I actually felt that its one major critiques (for me) was that it was NOT a unique story. Many of the characters, themes, and even much of the plot-line was heavily borrowed (or influenced?) from Mario Puzo's The Godfather. Haven't read the next 2 books yet, but if they give Kaul Sen the flashback/backstory treatment a la Vito Corleone, or Shae becomes the next Michael, I might cringe just a little bit... LOL. That being said, as someone of Asian decent, I love that this series is so popular and is part of the more recent trend of Asian based fantasies!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Phillip, you’re doing yourself a disservice! I highly recommend you grab a bucket of popcorn, load up The Godfather parts 1 and 2 (3 is optional) on your streaming service of choice, and have a weekend movie date night with your wife!
Oh no, Jimmy got snookered by the Mountain propaganda! Hilo is number one from his first couple chapters. I suppose this is just my opinion, but iirc everyone in Jade City spends all their time worrying about Hilo or spreading doubt about Hilo, but when we get in his head? He gives everything he has for his duty. He wants his girl to be happy, his family to be safe, and his older brother to be successful. He isn’t envious, particularly spiteful, has amazing judgement… It’s really only if you believe the unreliable narrators that I can see someone genuinely finding Hilo to be a thug. Not trying to change any minds, I’m actually super curious to hear some deeper criticisms/examples that contradict my view. The best part of fantasy is that, unlike politics, we all are given the same info, and we’re only dealing with a difference in interpretation/philosophy. What I’m trying to say is, while no opinion is wrong when it comes to fantasy, there is incredible value to be extracted from smart people cross-examining their differing opinions
Though I would not want to meet Hilo (especially in combat), I can see his virtues, which include deep-seated loyalty to family and friends, courage, determination, and a certain type of intelligence. He's certainly deserving of far more credit than his grandfather gives him, though Kaul Sen isn't the type to dole out credit to anyone, at least not to their face. Hilo also has the virtue of being interesting, which is why, I suspect, he's a favorite character for many. Cheers!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I think my favorite virtue of his is that he nearly always acts in good faith. Maybe that’s not the best way of describing it. In a position rife with politics and manipulation, and despite being doubted by everyone, Hilo is unusually genuine in the way he treats people. His family and enemies like to talk about how impulsive and unreliable he is, but we mostly see him giving everything he has for the family. They may disagree on what’s best but Hilo is always doing his duty. I really believe that most of what people dislike about him is actually just an issue with his culture. He wouldn’t fit into our society the way he is, but we’re not in lot society. So many times, such as when he judges Bero to deserve to die, we the reader are like ‘No! Wtf chill out Hilo, Jesus!’ But then he turns out to be completely right. Still shouldn’t jump to killing, but we maybe shouldn’t judge people outside the context of their own cultures. So like, yeah Hilo is a dick. But if I lived in that world, I would follow him over anyone else. I just appreciate his straightforward nature. Lan had a lot of potential as a leader…in our world, in our time, in our culture. But Lan, progressive though he seemed, just wasn’t able to bring himself to break with tradition. He’s so hamstrung by Sen and uh…Doro? He has the ideas and the compassion that we need, but he didn’t have the strength (which has many facets) to actually change the world. His ideas actively worked against him as he gets killed by someone he previously spared. But Hilo, seems to have had their culture beaten into him. Literally. He resents a lot of the traditions that have been thrust upon him, again literally by force/mild torture of various kinds. There’s are hints throughout book 1 that Doro is a creepy pedophile, and it’s been a while, but I think I remember Lan not really caring about Doro’s 12 year old secretaries in lingerie. Hilo thinks he’s a creep right away, and as always in book 1, turned out to have very keen instincts. But he doesn’t waste much time caring about petty shenanigans. He seems to give 100% of his effort and attention to his family and job, never greedy for power or women or money or killing. His first meeting in the book with Lan, Lan is thinking about how unreliable Hilo is. Meanwhile, Hilo speaks his mind, warns his Pillar of multiple threats that turn out to be true, and then leaves satisfied that he did his best to advise his brother well. He isn’t resentful that Lan didn’t take his side on everything, he’s supportive of his older brother. He knows better than anyone that Lan is a better leader. If only Lan had been effective also. I give Hilo an A+ for effort and genuine care, as well as an A in ethics. But he gets an F in morals, a D+ in communication, and a C- in empathy. I really wish we got more backstory on Hilo and Sen’s relationship. It seems possible that Sen and Shae bullied the hell out of young Hilo, and his view of the world is naturally very different from the two kids who were beloved by their grandfather. Must really color their perception of the clan, and how power should be used. I really think Hilo is a victim of his (oftentimes) shitty and violent culture/upbringing. But in the context of the world he lives in, he’s just what the clan needs. Sorry for the long rambling post. Feel free to ignore. Love the channel, and I can’t wait to get to your book when I find time! Keep up the good work
@@jamesporrell5687 No apology needed! I enjoyed your thoughts on Hilo very much. I agree that there’s cultural influence at least in part to account for Hilo’s personality. Also, you express his virtues very well. He’d be an excellent ally and a frightening foe, and he’d throw his entire being into both roles.
The biggest criticism I have for the series is the way it deals with misogyny and how lee doesn't really grapple with changing the classism and sexism. On top of that there were abelist slurs and terrible language that almost made me stop reading it all together.
I haven’t finished the series yet (I’m currently more than halfway through Jade War), so I’ll be interested to see how Lee handles the classism and sexism that she has portrayed in the cultures of the story. Thank you for the comment!
wow absolutely everybody loved this book but me! im so confused about the gushing about this mediocre one dimensional cliched book! i DID enjoy the world building. but the characters were so cardboard CUT OUT boring!
I really liked Jade City. Jade War a little less so. I haven’t tackled Jade Legacy yet. I didn’t find the characters to be flat, but people do experience books differently. Best wishes for finding some reads you love!
Thanks for having me on, half way through Jade War and very much enjoying it
That’s what we love to hear! 😉
The fact that you're enjoying Jade War is very encouraging to me. I'm excited for our next discussion, Jimmy!
Thank you for having me on for this discussion Philip! I feel like I walked away with some new perspective and I never tire of talking about this series :)
Can’t wait for the next one!
It was an immense pleasure to finally get the opportunity to chat about Jade City, Taylor. Thank you for encouraging me to read it!
Fantastic convo! I do wonder where my Hilo stans are at, though. Pure badassery!
Glad you enjoyed the chat, James! It was an unusual group without a Hilo fan, but we all agree he’s formidable. I wouldn’t want to be on his bad side!
This was a fantastic discussion, it brought back all the good (and bad/traumatic) memories of this series for me ;) Really cool to have a panel where people actually disagree on their favourite characters, loved hearing about everyone's different perspectives. Though how Jimmy enjoys reading from Bero's POV will forever remain a mystery to me, hahaha.
I am already looking forward to future discussions, this series really does only get better and better! Thanks so much for sharing 🤩
Thank you, Esmay! I’m eager to get this trilogy read after the strong start in Jade City. All the best!
Thanks for having me. Such a fun convo!
It was a blast, and I’m excited for the next two! Thank you, Bookborn!
Great chat, thanks all! First time I've been able to stay around for spoilers in a while, loved this series.
I’m so glad you enjoyed the chat, Andy!
You're right, Philip--fantastic and enlightening discussion. I've said before that I've rarely gasped aloud more reading any other series. But what's implied but not said there is that I actually care enough--about the characters and their circumstance--to have that sort of shocked reaction to reading a story. It's masterfully done. I actually like Legacy and War better than City, fwiw. (My preference goes in reverse order of the sequence.) The wider Lee went, story wise, my interest and investment only grew. Thanks to you all!
That's great to hear about your increasing investment in the trilogy with each book, Vaughn. I agree with you about how Lee gets us to care about the characters. Cheers, my friend!
The Way of Edan was amazing! Oh, we’re talking about Jade City in this video 😁. This was truly a great discussion with great points all around! This made me realize I’ve forgotten several details, but I do remember Lan, Hilo, and Shae. I also remember thinking that Lee captured some good subtle and believable family dyanmics during the funeral scene. We know Taylor and Hillary loved the whole trilogy. Hope the same holds true for you and Jimmy!
Ha ha! You and Jimmy appear to be on the same page. Or, the same book, in this case . . . 😁 I’m impressed with Jade City and look forward to the rest of Green Bone Saga. Cheers, Johanna! 😊
Great discussion! Can't wait to get to the Jade Legacy version of this chat and see how your perceptions of the characters change as you read the next two books, especially Hilo
I'm excited to see where Fonda Lee takes the characters!
"Wen is getting fridged, EZ, GG" is my favorite quote of this whole discussion.
Great discussion! These deep dives into character and themes are the reason I love UA-cam and especially these long format conversations. I liked Jade City. However, jade legacy is my fav in this trilogy. Can't wait for the Jade War discussion, and your thoughts about it Phillip.
Thank you, Avi! I’m glad you enjoyed the discussion, I’m definitely eager to get to Jade War. All the best!
So exited to see how jimmy and your’s opinions on the characters will change in the next books! You guys are in for a ride.
I’m looking forward to it! Cheers!
I heartily approve of Jimmy's shameless plugging on Philip's behalf. Also, yes, Taylor--they are *definitely* going to know which scene in Jade War you were talking about 😝
Ha ha! Thank you, Daniel! In addition to being a chad, Jimmy is a genuinely kind person and all around awesome dude.
Wonderful panel discussion on a phenomenal book. I have Jade War down as my first read for May and I can't wait. Everyone brought up so many amazing themes and I would add that choice and family pressure against choice is a fascinating theme that ties particularly with Shay's storyline. Who, coincidentally is my favourite character in Jade City.
Thank you, Luke! I’m excited to tackle the rest of Green Bone Saga, and if you release videos on it, I hope to check them out. I hope you’re doing well!
Just finished the first book and came to UA-cam looking for discussion about it, i was so thrill to find your discussion, been getting more into books thanks to your reviews of vinland saga with merphy so you are partly to blame for my new obsessions xD
I’m happy to take part of the blame! 😁 My best to you for your reading!
I really enjoyed this kind of long-form, group discussion around a book. I read Jade City and enjoyed it, however I feel I enjoy it more now after hearing you guys talk about the themes and characters. Great work and love the content!!
Thank you, Collin! I’m very glad there are still folks who enjoy these longer deep dives into books. All the best!
Great discussion, this series definitely lends itself to character analysis!
Thank you, Maddy! I agree - the characters in Jade City are rich and interesting. Cheers!
Thank you, guys.
You’re welcome, and thank you for watching!
I love this book, just finished jade cityand about to read jade war. I just can't stop reading this trilogy. Oh, and I loved Hilo, though I do wish Lan didn't die soo soon.
I feel the same way about Lan, though I had a bad feeling early on. Best wishes for Jade War - it started a little slow for me, but I loved it by the end.
What a wonderful discussion ! I absolutely loved this book so much ! I can't wait to read book 2 which I heard it's even better. *cough Bookborn thinks not :D
So glad you enjoyed the discussion! Cheers!
Great discussion. I suddenly have the urge to start re-reading the trilogy. Thanks!
I'm glad you enjoyed the discussion, Heather!
Great discussion! For some reason I never really got into the books when reading them myself, but hearing people discuss them makes me want to like them. I've soft DNF'D the series after Jade War, but everytime someone talks about this series I think about picking up Jade Legacy. I'll probably break down and finally read it when y'all get to it.
I consistently hear that Jade Legacy is the best of the trilogy, so I hope that, if you do pick it up, you'll enjoy the finale!
Ayt Mada MVP! And finally, I don't feel completely alone in not loving Hilo. What a great conversation! Love the deconstruction of the characters and their respective places in the plot and in that world.
I’m glad you enjoyed the discussion, Susanna! Ayt Mada is extremely formidable, and I’d love to get her POV in the next two books or at least learn more about her. Cheers!
Nearly done reading this for the first time, and man is it ADDICTING. Excellent storytelling and memorable characters. I had a few issues with some of the content - sexual content and language, specifically - mainly just because it really felt sort of forced? Like Lee was trying to prove to us this book was NOT young adult like her previous work. Not really necessary.
Otherwise, really excellent, and would certainly suggest it.
I'm glad you're enjoying it, Trent! To be honest, I didn't notice the cursing so much, but I would be fine with losing the sex scenes in the book because, to me, they didn't add much that couldn't have been delivered in a different sort of scene. All the best!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I agree - I think as the book goes along, the language makes more sense and fits in more seamlessly. The sex scenes were awkward though and definitely felt unnecessary.
And hey - congrats on YOUR new book! So pumped for you!
@@tkinsey3 Thank you so much!
Jade War was my favourite of the trilogy so excited for the next discussion 😊
Excellent! Taylor will be hosting the Jade War discussion. I’m excited for it!
Great discussion. Kind of annoyed certain ppl kept referring to the other 2 books since I haven’t read them yet. Felt like I learned which characters make it to the end or at least to the final book. Wish I didn’t know that. Overall really appreciated the video, thanks.
I'm glad you enjoyed the discussion overall! I'm about to read the third book (we had our Jade War discussion over at Maed Between the Pages), and I'm looking forward to seeing how the trilogy ends. All the best!
Such a great discussion! I had so many thoughts but only retained a few afterward. LOL. I do have a soft spot for Hilo BUT I am never fooled that he is a "good" guy. He's not. Very much not. But he is fascinating, as are Shae and Anden. And the antagonists. And Bero is definitelya cockroach. LOL. I wanted the clan to do well but knew that wasn't always an option given the world they live in. Or maybe it was an option but they didn't make those decisions at all times. So fascinating reading how it all played out and rooting for them and also lamenting some things and the fallout. Great series
Those emotions are definitely a good sign that Fonda Lee did her character work really well, and I experienced them too. All the best, Andrea!
Hi 👋 sorry not been here lately my husband passed away last week.. keeping myself getting back normality a little.. I’ve purchased ur book look forward reading ur book! I will review on my Instagram page as soon I will read it.. happy reading to you!! 😊
My condolences once again, Safina - I’m so sorry for your loss. My best wishes for getting back to your life routines, and thank you for the support!
Jade City was pretty decent for a first book in a trilogy. I really liked Taylor's insights. In Jade War, a certain someone does something that makes me abhor them to no end. You'll know when you get there.
I’m intrigued to find out! Cheers, Marco!
Looks like I'm not getting to this today. But I'm sure it's a great discussion, Philip, which means I have something to look forward to!😄
Thank you, Angela! In the meantime, I hope you have an excellent day!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Aw, thank you, Philip! But how can a day where I don't have time to watch one of your wonderful discussion videos be excellent?😞
@@DoUnicornsRead In that case, I hope today will be good enough and that tomorrow will be excellent!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Hoping in return that those endorphins from the success of your book will get you effortlessly through the rest of the week!
Loved it
We will be discussing book two soon!
Amazing discussion! I thought I was the only one with unpopular opinions but it seems like everyone here agreed with me regarding Lan and Hilo 😂
I’m so glad you enjoyed the discussion! All the best, Jade!
Hilo is my guy... He's doing the best he can with the mantle he was given. Y'all are right he's a thug but doesn't hide it but you can see he's changing and maturing into his role but still doesn't take any crap.
One thing is for sure - I wouldn’t mess with Hilo!
Spoilers for about halfway through Jade City:
Pretty early on, I felt pretty confident Lan was going to die. As soon as he got that letter from his ex-wife and put it in his desk drawer, I said out loud: "He's a dead man," because I knew he would die just so he wouldn't be able to read the letter later like he planned to.
Same here! I told myself I better not get too attached to this character . . .
❤❤
Thank you, Diane!
Interesting takes. I really enjoyed Jade City a lot, but I actually felt that its one major critiques (for me) was that it was NOT a unique story. Many of the characters, themes, and even much of the plot-line was heavily borrowed (or influenced?) from Mario Puzo's The Godfather. Haven't read the next 2 books yet, but if they give Kaul Sen the flashback/backstory treatment a la Vito Corleone, or Shae becomes the next Michael, I might cringe just a little bit... LOL. That being said, as someone of Asian decent, I love that this series is so popular and is part of the more recent trend of Asian based fantasies!
I’m less familiar with The Godfather, and so I didn’t think about it as I was reading, but Lee has acknowledged its importance. Cheers!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Phillip, you’re doing yourself a disservice! I highly recommend you grab a bucket of popcorn, load up The Godfather parts 1 and 2 (3 is optional) on your streaming service of choice, and have a weekend movie date night with your wife!
@@Leroy510 Sounds like a plan! Cheers, Leroy!
Don't know what happens later, but in this book I don't get the Hilo bashing.
Hilo plays his role very well, in my opinion -- not a dude I'd mess with!
Oh no, Jimmy got snookered by the Mountain propaganda! Hilo is number one from his first couple chapters.
I suppose this is just my opinion, but iirc everyone in Jade City spends all their time worrying about Hilo or spreading doubt about Hilo, but when we get in his head?
He gives everything he has for his duty. He wants his girl to be happy, his family to be safe, and his older brother to be successful. He isn’t envious, particularly spiteful, has amazing judgement…
It’s really only if you believe the unreliable narrators that I can see someone genuinely finding Hilo to be a thug.
Not trying to change any minds, I’m actually super curious to hear some deeper criticisms/examples that contradict my view.
The best part of fantasy is that, unlike politics, we all are given the same info, and we’re only dealing with a difference in interpretation/philosophy.
What I’m trying to say is, while no opinion is wrong when it comes to fantasy, there is incredible value to be extracted from smart people cross-examining their differing opinions
Though I would not want to meet Hilo (especially in combat), I can see his virtues, which include deep-seated loyalty to family and friends, courage, determination, and a certain type of intelligence. He's certainly deserving of far more credit than his grandfather gives him, though Kaul Sen isn't the type to dole out credit to anyone, at least not to their face. Hilo also has the virtue of being interesting, which is why, I suspect, he's a favorite character for many. Cheers!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I think my favorite virtue of his is that he nearly always acts in good faith. Maybe that’s not the best way of describing it.
In a position rife with politics and manipulation, and despite being doubted by everyone, Hilo is unusually genuine in the way he treats people.
His family and enemies like to talk about how impulsive and unreliable he is, but we mostly see him giving everything he has for the family.
They may disagree on what’s best but Hilo is always doing his duty.
I really believe that most of what people dislike about him is actually just an issue with his culture. He wouldn’t fit into our society the way he is, but we’re not in lot society.
So many times, such as when he judges Bero to deserve to die, we the reader are like ‘No! Wtf chill out Hilo, Jesus!’ But then he turns out to be completely right. Still shouldn’t jump to killing, but we maybe shouldn’t judge people outside the context of their own cultures.
So like, yeah Hilo is a dick. But if I lived in that world, I would follow him over anyone else. I just appreciate his straightforward nature.
Lan had a lot of potential as a leader…in our world, in our time, in our culture. But Lan, progressive though he seemed, just wasn’t able to bring himself to break with tradition. He’s so hamstrung by Sen and uh…Doro? He has the ideas and the compassion that we need, but he didn’t have the strength (which has many facets) to actually change the world. His ideas actively worked against him as he gets killed by someone he previously spared.
But Hilo, seems to have had their culture beaten into him. Literally. He resents a lot of the traditions that have been thrust upon him, again literally by force/mild torture of various kinds.
There’s are hints throughout book 1 that Doro is a creepy pedophile, and it’s been a while, but I think I remember Lan not really caring about Doro’s 12 year old secretaries in lingerie. Hilo thinks he’s a creep right away, and as always in book 1, turned out to have very keen instincts.
But he doesn’t waste much time caring about petty shenanigans. He seems to give 100% of his effort and attention to his family and job, never greedy for power or women or money or killing. His first meeting in the book with Lan, Lan is thinking about how unreliable Hilo is. Meanwhile, Hilo speaks his mind, warns his Pillar of multiple threats that turn out to be true, and then leaves satisfied that he did his best to advise his brother well. He isn’t resentful that Lan didn’t take his side on everything, he’s supportive of his older brother. He knows better than anyone that Lan is a better leader. If only Lan had been effective also.
I give Hilo an A+ for effort and genuine care, as well as an A in ethics. But he gets an F in morals, a D+ in communication, and a C- in empathy.
I really wish we got more backstory on Hilo and Sen’s relationship. It seems possible that Sen and Shae bullied the hell out of young Hilo, and his view of the world is naturally very different from the two kids who were beloved by their grandfather. Must really color their perception of the clan, and how power should be used.
I really think Hilo is a victim of his (oftentimes) shitty and violent culture/upbringing. But in the context of the world he lives in, he’s just what the clan needs.
Sorry for the long rambling post. Feel free to ignore. Love the channel, and I can’t wait to get to your book when I find time! Keep up the good work
@@jamesporrell5687 No apology needed! I enjoyed your thoughts on Hilo very much. I agree that there’s cultural influence at least in part to account for Hilo’s personality. Also, you express his virtues very well. He’d be an excellent ally and a frightening foe, and he’d throw his entire being into both roles.
The biggest criticism I have for the series is the way it deals with misogyny and how lee doesn't really grapple with changing the classism and sexism. On top of that there were abelist slurs and terrible language that almost made me stop reading it all together.
I haven’t finished the series yet (I’m currently more than halfway through Jade War), so I’ll be interested to see how Lee handles the classism and sexism that she has portrayed in the cultures of the story. Thank you for the comment!
wow absolutely everybody loved this book but me! im so confused about the gushing about this mediocre one dimensional cliched book! i DID enjoy the world building. but the characters were so cardboard CUT OUT boring!
I really liked Jade City. Jade War a little less so. I haven’t tackled Jade Legacy yet. I didn’t find the characters to be flat, but people do experience books differently. Best wishes for finding some reads you love!