I appreciate your balanced honesty here and largely agree with your assessment. It won’t be long before Logic has session guitarists and vocalists (my instruments) as well, and maybe songwriters too. Your comment about what we will lose by not learning to play instruments reminds me of King Thamus’s lament about humans losing their ability to remember due to the invention of writing. Thanks for the thought provoking video and thanks to AI for bringing me to your channel! 😅
Thanks, glad you found something thought provoking here! I agree, Logic will have session musicians to cover every instrument soon. I even see the integration of a large language model where you can just say, I want a hard rock song that you might find on a Metallica album and it will give you a pretty polished song. The future will be interesting for sure . . .
Thanks Jay, I appreciate you checking it out! Yes, the whole spectrum of creative workers are going to need to deal with the effects of AI as we move into the future. So much to think about . . .
@@chipboazmusic I think streaming services are now in the process of becoming completely saturated with AI generated music and people won’t know what’s real. I think (eventually) being able to do it live will be the key. Hang in there!
Yea, it’s crazy how much AI generated music fills up those Spotify playlists. It’s sad really. Not only are we loosing out on the beauty of music created by a unique human, musicians are loosing money as listeners keep hearing AI tracks. It’s a problem that’s just eating away at the whole ecosystem.
Maybe the influx of AI is an invitation to not only "lean into the human element" as you stated, but define the nebulous concept of "human" and incorporate that into the pedagogy of music and the study thereof. Logic doesn't need to replicate jazz bass playing because Band in a Box already does that fine. There's so many people that practice with AI bass and drums, and then post music on the internet with AI. The tragedy is that we become less able to discern what makes music human. And if we internalize these AI sounds in our practice, then we ingrain the misconception of what playing with real musicians feels like and sounds like. When I play with professional bass players that know their craft--I know that they are providing me with way more than a line in the bass register. A great bass player fills the room and glues the band together. A great bass player is a master of rhythm and harmony. A great bass player has huge ears and knows how to respond--AI can't do that yet. Honestly, all of those attributes could be said about any master musician--regardless of instrument. I'm still rallying for a flip in the jazz education paradigm--where more time is devoted to understanding the wide world of rhythm. Currently, we have a ton of literature on harmony and chord scales, not enough on rhythm--which is not simply an element to be "felt." Maybe AI can help challenge the paradigm as well and make us define and discern what is actually human and grooving.
You make a lot of really great points here, I appreciate your thought provoking comments! True, I used Band In A Box for many years - these days I’m using iReal Pro - and it was the Jamey Aebersold records before that. They have made for good practice tools, but you’re so right about the loss of our connection to sounds and feel. I feel like this loss is way too common in this day and age. You’re absolutely right about the benefits of a great bass player, and I totally agree that there’s nothing like the way a strong bass player can steer a song. I feel like the problem is that there’s an army of bedroom producers out there creating an endless stream of music for streaming services, social media, and more. Using AI is fast, cheap, and efficient - all the things they need to pump out an endless stream of content. Notice I didn’t say music, because another issue is that the priority has changed; it’s about quantity over quality. When you just need to produce, a great bass player - or any great musician - isn’t really necessary or probably isn’t even desired. It doesn’t matter that AI can’t produce the same musical product as a great bass player; all that matters is that it can speed up the process. And YES, there are big holes in the world of jazz education. I could talk for a long time about the way that jazz is becoming far too academic; that’s a whole other video. I think that the thing about rhythmic ideas is that when you dig deeper than rhythms on a page, you’re talking about something that can only be felt and experienced; it’s a bit too ethereal to teach. Could AI learn it? Maybe. But more people should connect with that first.
@@chipboazmusic an army of bedroom producers and a whole corps of bedroom musicians. We need more bassists and drummers leading music programs. Todd Coolman used to be the chair of Purchase, and Ron Carter used to chair CCNY--we need more of that! Where's the drummer led jazz university programs that require every musician to take rudimentary jazz piano and jazz drums?
Todd Coolman and Ron Carter - those are two serious bassists right there that anyone would be fortunate to learn from. I do think that part of the issue is that young musicians don’t need that sort of education if they’ve got AI. They can skip that hoop and jump right into making hits. It’s a disservice to the world as the level of artistry that would come from studying with someone like Ron Carter would bring amazing music into the world. But it takes a lot of work and I’m not sure if people would be willing to take that step.
@@chipboazmusic Mind you, I never got to study with either. You'll hate me, but I missed my chance to study with John Patitucci at CCNY--I switched out of my jazz performance track right before I had the opportunity to take "Rhythm Section Seminar" with him... stupid me!
I can't stop thinking that musicians complaining about AI is like blue collars complaining about the introduction of robots for repetitive tasks. Yes, it is happening but it will never replace the face to face Interaction with other musicians and playing to a live audience.
I agree that complaining is probably not productive, but discussion and problem solving certainly can be. I think the issue here is that AI is slowly but surely pulling the human element away from our world. I am a firm believer in the power of live music but I’m increasingly convinced that a growing number of people are OK with a video of a live performance. People are loosing the connection to live music and we need to find ways to protect that.
TRUTH. I play a variety of gigs around my local scene and I have to admit, it feels like it’s less and less compelling to people. You can tell the live music fans - we always have great conversations on the breaks, they buy my CDs, and all the things. But then there’s a number of people who just experience the live music as background noise. Venues notice this too.
AI weeds out the bass players who are beat RIDERS. Ray Brown talked about beat RIDERS vs beat MAKERS. Beat makers have an independent sense of time. Although there will be a slight variance between other members of the rhythm section, that variance is around an average BPM. This variance is satisfying and organic to the human ear. The beat MAKER them observes the other musicians and the audience and drives the group (dynamically, rhythmically, stylistically etc.) to adjust to the room energy. A true bass player knows this and much more intuitively. By the time AI learned all of this, the styles have changed.
@@chipboazmusic Im 60..been playing guitar since age 5...thats a long time .. seen technology take over everything..remember when Napster was sued..now try and find physical music in many places...remember the days before auto tune.. how aboit everyone and there Mom using modeling now...this is just the way its going...AI WILL take over all of it ..humans will play for fun ..well those that actually still play..believe me I do not like being right on this.. But I am.. is no going back now..pivot or don't
That’s a very real perspective. I’m in my early fifties, and it does seem like we’ve seen technology evolve at a crazy rate through our lifetime. And it is becoming less tangible; just the fact that we stream music from some invisible source that we can’t see or touch - it’s crazy. And I agree with you - AI is going to be a big part of music going forward. So how do we adapt? Personally, I’d like to see music continuing to reflect humanity, even if AI is involved. It’s something to consider . . .
Hmmm. I’m not sure I agree with you. There will certainly be an element of the cream rising to the top. But AI gets trained on available examples. So in theory, an AI could absorb all the recording that Pino Palladino played on. And then create bass lines that replicate his style pretty darn accurately. I think that Pino doesn’t qualify as a bad bass player, but if studios could get Pino’s sounds without paying for Pino, there’s a likelihood that they wouldn’t pay. It’s not really about good/bad anymore.
@chipboazmusic I meant that Ai is replacing shitty bass players because it's easier and a lot less hassle, thus making the shitty bass player extinct at least on recordings. As far as getting Pino type of results with AI, we are not there yet but it will happen.
@petealba707 Agreed. But it’s the “it will happen” part that concerns me. There’s going to be a day when it’s going to be pretty tough to bring something to the table that AI can’t create immediately. We all need to be thinking about the things that make us unique as bassists.
I appreciate your balanced honesty here and largely agree with your assessment. It won’t be long before Logic has session guitarists and vocalists (my instruments) as well, and maybe songwriters too. Your comment about what we will lose by not learning to play instruments reminds me of King Thamus’s lament about humans losing their ability to remember due to the invention of writing. Thanks for the thought provoking video and thanks to AI for bringing me to your channel! 😅
Thanks, glad you found something thought provoking here! I agree, Logic will have session musicians to cover every instrument soon. I even see the integration of a large language model where you can just say, I want a hard rock song that you might find on a Metallica album and it will give you a pretty polished song. The future will be interesting for sure . . .
Interesting and honest take on the effects of Music AI on musicians and other music creatives. Shalom, Jay
Thanks Jay, I appreciate you checking it out! Yes, the whole spectrum of creative workers are going to need to deal with the effects of AI as we move into the future. So much to think about . . .
I use it on a regular bassist 😂
😂😂
Ha! This regular bassist feels used . . .
@@chipboazmusic I think streaming services are now in the process of becoming completely saturated with AI generated music and people won’t know what’s real. I think (eventually) being able to do it live will be the key. Hang in there!
Yea, it’s crazy how much AI generated music fills up those Spotify playlists. It’s sad really. Not only are we loosing out on the beauty of music created by a unique human, musicians are loosing money as listeners keep hearing AI tracks. It’s a problem that’s just eating away at the whole ecosystem.
Maybe the influx of AI is an invitation to not only "lean into the human element" as you stated, but define the nebulous concept of "human" and incorporate that into the pedagogy of music and the study thereof. Logic doesn't need to replicate jazz bass playing because Band in a Box already does that fine. There's so many people that practice with AI bass and drums, and then post music on the internet with AI. The tragedy is that we become less able to discern what makes music human. And if we internalize these AI sounds in our practice, then we ingrain the misconception of what playing with real musicians feels like and sounds like.
When I play with professional bass players that know their craft--I know that they are providing me with way more than a line in the bass register. A great bass player fills the room and glues the band together. A great bass player is a master of rhythm and harmony. A great bass player has huge ears and knows how to respond--AI can't do that yet. Honestly, all of those attributes could be said about any master musician--regardless of instrument.
I'm still rallying for a flip in the jazz education paradigm--where more time is devoted to understanding the wide world of rhythm. Currently, we have a ton of literature on harmony and chord scales, not enough on rhythm--which is not simply an element to be "felt." Maybe AI can help challenge the paradigm as well and make us define and discern what is actually human and grooving.
You make a lot of really great points here, I appreciate your thought provoking comments! True, I used Band In A Box for many years - these days I’m using iReal Pro - and it was the Jamey Aebersold records before that. They have made for good practice tools, but you’re so right about the loss of our connection to sounds and feel. I feel like this loss is way too common in this day and age.
You’re absolutely right about the benefits of a great bass player, and I totally agree that there’s nothing like the way a strong bass player can steer a song. I feel like the problem is that there’s an army of bedroom producers out there creating an endless stream of music for streaming services, social media, and more. Using AI is fast, cheap, and efficient - all the things they need to pump out an endless stream of content. Notice I didn’t say music, because another issue is that the priority has changed; it’s about quantity over quality. When you just need to produce, a great bass player - or any great musician - isn’t really necessary or probably isn’t even desired. It doesn’t matter that AI can’t produce the same musical product as a great bass player; all that matters is that it can speed up the process.
And YES, there are big holes in the world of jazz education. I could talk for a long time about the way that jazz is becoming far too academic; that’s a whole other video. I think that the thing about rhythmic ideas is that when you dig deeper than rhythms on a page, you’re talking about something that can only be felt and experienced; it’s a bit too ethereal to teach. Could AI learn it? Maybe. But more people should connect with that first.
@@chipboazmusic an army of bedroom producers and a whole corps of bedroom musicians. We need more bassists and drummers leading music programs. Todd Coolman used to be the chair of Purchase, and Ron Carter used to chair CCNY--we need more of that! Where's the drummer led jazz university programs that require every musician to take rudimentary jazz piano and jazz drums?
Todd Coolman and Ron Carter - those are two serious bassists right there that anyone would be fortunate to learn from. I do think that part of the issue is that young musicians don’t need that sort of education if they’ve got AI. They can skip that hoop and jump right into making hits. It’s a disservice to the world as the level of artistry that would come from studying with someone like Ron Carter would bring amazing music into the world. But it takes a lot of work and I’m not sure if people would be willing to take that step.
@@chipboazmusic Mind you, I never got to study with either. You'll hate me, but I missed my chance to study with John Patitucci at CCNY--I switched out of my jazz performance track right before I had the opportunity to take "Rhythm Section Seminar" with him... stupid me!
Artificial intelligence WILL never replace thr bass player...
Right now, people think they can use this to make a quick buck.
100%. Case in point: No one wants Dolby Atmos.
I can't stop thinking that musicians complaining about AI is like blue collars complaining about the introduction of robots for repetitive tasks. Yes, it is happening but it will never replace the face to face Interaction with other musicians and playing to a live audience.
Good way to cope..small live music is on its way out the door..maybe you haven't noticed
I agree that complaining is probably not productive, but discussion and problem solving certainly can be. I think the issue here is that AI is slowly but surely pulling the human element away from our world. I am a firm believer in the power of live music but I’m increasingly convinced that a growing number of people are OK with a video of a live performance. People are loosing the connection to live music and we need to find ways to protect that.
TRUTH. I play a variety of gigs around my local scene and I have to admit, it feels like it’s less and less compelling to people. You can tell the live music fans - we always have great conversations on the breaks, they buy my CDs, and all the things. But then there’s a number of people who just experience the live music as background noise. Venues notice this too.
AI weeds out the bass players who are beat RIDERS. Ray Brown talked about beat RIDERS vs beat MAKERS. Beat makers have an independent sense of time. Although there will be a slight variance between other members of the rhythm section, that variance is around an average BPM. This variance is satisfying and organic to the human ear. The beat MAKER them observes the other musicians and the audience and drives the group (dynamically, rhythmically, stylistically etc.) to adjust to the room energy.
A true bass player knows this and much more intuitively. By the time AI learned all of this, the styles have changed.
Note how the typos in the above message drive higher levels of engagement😊
no, but its making the guys who hold down a string on a fret and play eight notes extinct.
That's already happened bro but you still get Mohini Dey. AI is just another tool.
So depressing
Do you lament the passing of vinyl records, too? How about (shitty) analog tape recording? Shed tears for that, do you?
it's not sounds good, sorry... it's a kind of mechanical BS that completely misses of musical emotion...
The cope is real...
Hmmm
@@chipboazmusic Im 60..been playing guitar since age 5...thats a long time .. seen technology take over everything..remember when Napster was sued..now try and find physical music in many places...remember the days before auto tune.. how aboit everyone and there Mom using modeling now...this is just the way its going...AI WILL take over all of it ..humans will play for fun ..well those that actually still play..believe me I do not like being right on this.. But I am.. is no going back now..pivot or don't
That’s a very real perspective. I’m in my early fifties, and it does seem like we’ve seen technology evolve at a crazy rate through our lifetime. And it is becoming less tangible; just the fact that we stream music from some invisible source that we can’t see or touch - it’s crazy. And I agree with you - AI is going to be a big part of music going forward. So how do we adapt? Personally, I’d like to see music continuing to reflect humanity, even if AI is involved. It’s something to consider . . .
Shitty ones for sure.
Hmmm. I’m not sure I agree with you. There will certainly be an element of the cream rising to the top. But AI gets trained on available examples. So in theory, an AI could absorb all the recording that Pino Palladino played on. And then create bass lines that replicate his style pretty darn accurately. I think that Pino doesn’t qualify as a bad bass player, but if studios could get Pino’s sounds without paying for Pino, there’s a likelihood that they wouldn’t pay. It’s not really about good/bad anymore.
@chipboazmusic I meant that Ai is replacing shitty bass players because it's easier and a lot less hassle, thus making the shitty bass player extinct at least on recordings. As far as getting Pino type of results with AI, we are not there yet but it will happen.
@petealba707 Agreed. But it’s the “it will happen” part that concerns me. There’s going to be a day when it’s going to be pretty tough to bring something to the table that AI can’t create immediately. We all need to be thinking about the things that make us unique as bassists.