The Worst Chapter in the Bible

Episode 39 of the "Cabernet and Pray" podcast.
See all episodes: • Cabernet and Pray Video
What happens when the God of the Old Testament seems unrecognizable next to the Jesus of the New Testament? In this thought-provoking episode of Cabernet and Pray, we tackle what Jeremy calls “the worst chapter in the Bible,” Numbers 31. Together, we confront the shocking themes of revenge, violence, and divine commands that seem incompatible with the love of Jesus. With a glass of Sokol Blosser 2021 Pinot Noir in hand, we explore how ancient contexts and human perceptions of God shape scripture-and what this means for our faith today. Don’t miss this deep dive into the Bible’s most challenging narratives.
Wine Featured:
Sokol Blosser 2021 Watershed Block Pinot Noir
Notes of potting soil, dried leaves, cranberry, raspberry, and clove. A perfect pairing for deep conversations about theology.
Key Discussion Points:
Introduction to Numbers 31:
Jeremy reflects on the challenges faced as a pastor in interpreting the Old Testament.
Focus on Numbers 31: a chapter filled with revenge, violence, and troubling divine commands.
A Brutal Look at Numbers 31:
God commands Moses to wage a war of revenge against the Midianites.
Controversial instructions to kill men, women, and boys, sparing only virgin girls, presented as plunder.
The unsettling notion of 32 virgins being allocated as God’s share of the spoils.
Reconciling Numbers 31 with the Nature of Jesus:
The difficulty of aligning Numbers 31 with the nonviolent, sacrificial love exemplified by Jesus.
Examples of misinterpretation: Justifying actions like the Crusades by blending Old Testament violence with Christian theology.
Historical and Cultural Context:
Insights from early church father Origen: When a passage seems unworthy of God, seek deeper spiritual meaning.
Greg Boyd’s Cross Vision: God’s willingness to meet people in their context, even when their understanding is limited.
Andy Stanley’s Irresistible: The importance of unhitching modern faith from Old Testament practices and covenantal frameworks.
A Framework for Interpretation:
Jesus as the clearest image of God: “What God looks like when there are no clouds in the way.”
Viewing problematic Old Testament passages as reflections of human culture and sin, not divine character.
Takeaways for Faith:
Christians don’t need to fear difficult scriptures but must read them through the lens of Jesus.
Numbers 31 reveals more about ancient Israelites’ worldview than about God’s true nature.
The Bible’s ultimate purpose is to point us to Jesus, the unclouded vision of God.
Jeremy leaves listeners with the challenge to dig deeper into scripture, trusting that a clearer picture of God emerges through Jesus. Christians can engage with difficult passages and grow a faith rooted in love, humility, and understanding.
Cabernet and Pray is an authentic, thoughtfully curated, human-hosted podcast that is free, but not cheap. Please consider supporting the content Jeremy creates by joining the Rebuilding Faith patron community. Find out more here: www.jeremyjern...

[@robschaller9061]

That is an EASY answer, Jeremy... BECAUSE PEOPLE DO NOT BELIEVE GENESIS. Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.” God is speaking to the serpent. and between your seed and her Seed..."zera" primarily refers to seed in both a literal and metaphorical sense. Literally, it denotes the seed of plants, as used in agricultural contexts. Metaphorically, it extends to mean offspring or descendants, emphasizing lineage and posterity.
This has been an OFFSPRING WAR since the Garden of Eden. People vainly cling to evolution attempting to symbolize Genesis because of what IMPLIES if they take it literal. Nephilim are REAL. That is the offspring of the abomination hybrids that the fallen angles brought forth. It was turned into such an abomination and man in his fallen state was doomed if God did not intervene. Scripture tells us in Genesis 4:26 ... Then people began to call upon the name of the LORD. This occurred after the birth of Enosh, a son of Seth. The chapter ends and 5 opens with the Genealogy of Adam. In other words we are left with a hanging chad if you will that is an odd statement to end a chapter with. Chapter 5 is Adam to Noah. Chapter 6 answers are hanging question of why chapter 4 ends the way it does. WHY was FALLEN MAN (some translations render it PEOPLE) calling on God?? Now the earth was corrupt in the sight of God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12And God looked on the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for [i]humanity had corrupted its way upon the earth. Chapter 6 describes in broad strokes what the earth had become. People dont stop to think about what is God saying here??? I mean Mans post flood history is a long SICK twisted story about how man brutalizes himself. Slaughter of innocent people the Holocaust, the murder of over 20 million Ukrainians by Stalin... we could list a long tale of the atrocities of man through out history... but God says that "The end of man has come before me and the world is full of VIOLENCE" Given mans history it must have been unimaginable.
So MOST peoples objection centers around the children of Israel taking the promised land and the slaughter of people in the cities where Moses was instructed by God to destroy everything that was alive. Animals, people, women and children... This all goes back to not believing God and Genesis. The [e]Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, those Canaanite cities were full of Nephilim that were utterly destroyed. Scripture is clearly showing you THEY ARENT HUMAN. You maybe okay so maybe your right that really has nothing to do with Today or Christ. Oh boy do I wish that were true, but its not,
Matthew 24 The disciples are asking Christ about his return what to look for... and in a long chapter that is multi layered with different times being dealt with is an ODD statement (ALWAYS pay attention when you see something that seems out of place) Christ say For as in those days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until that day Noah entered into the ark... So he is juxtaposing routine life' eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage against the days of Noah. We know that the Nephilim were on the earth and that the earth was full of VIOLENCE. This then makes total sense when got says it is FOR THE SAKE OF THE ELECT OF GOD that those days were shortened or NO FLESH would survive...
IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND GENISIS YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND SCRIPTURE. I declare the end from the beginning, and from ancient times what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and all My good pleasure I will accomplish.’ --Isaiah 46:10 What has been will be again, and what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. Ecclesiastes 1:9

[@jefcaine]

As much as I admire this view - it feels like a product of motivated reasoning. Couldn't you just as easily explain away all the kind things Jesus did and argue "Jesus looks like God"?

[@JeremyJernigan]

I definitely understand the sentiment, but most people agree that Jesus looks different than the God depicted in OT passages like Numbers 31. If you don’t use the view I’m arguing, you’d have to then conclude Jesus was on His own and had delusions of grandeur and was just a remarkably intriguing person. The point being that the Jesus of the Gospels does not in fact look like the OT God.