Follow up: There seems to be some misunderstanding about my position. I thought it was clear when I laid out the 3 criteria I used to define a ninja, but maybe not =(. If your definition of ninja does not include those criteria, we are talking about different things. To be clear, of course there was secret warfare during the Sengoku, and shinobi no mono was one of the names used for people who engaged in such operations. Shinobi no mono = ninja. In fact, I was planning another ninja video on such people =) My objection is with the idea of the ninja as a secretive, distinct, cohesive group or groups that had secret teachings passed down through generations. Does not seem like there is evidence for that. There IS evidence for samurai and people from the lower class engaging in stealth operations, and shinobi no mono was one of the names used for them. I think it comes down to definition. If you're saying we called people shinobi no mono back in the day, we agree. That existed. They were normal spies, scouts, assassins, etc. Every country had those kinds of people, but we don't usually call those people from other countries ninja. I was using the definition of ninja as people in a secretive organization or guild with secret teachings. My actual position is that ninja, or shinobi no mono, was a job/activity, rather than identity. For example, if I samurai went on a spying mission, you could have said he assumed a "ninja" role for that mission. Hope I've explained my position clearly =) Check out the eye-opening book mentioned: Ninja: Unmasking the Myth book: amzn.to/2Ofx7kE
I'm thinking of two things: 1, The Kanji's traditional usage is similar to the curren't colloquial slang adverb usage "Ninja" as in "He Just Ninja'd the Capture Point, right in front of the enemy Team! BoxTrot Spy Is Pay To Win!" The second thing I'm thinking of is how the Historically word "Ironclad" or "Armour-Clad" in regards to Naval Warfare was overwhelmingly used as an adjective that described that any ship had Armour, and not that they were a distinct class in the doctrinal sense, for instance a Floating-Battery, Gunboat, Bomb, Sloop, Corvette, Post-Ship, Frigate, Cruiser, or Ship-Of-The-Line (often shortened to Man-O-War, Great-Ship, or just "Liner") could all be "Armour-Clad" ex: "Armour-Clad Frigate". Another even weirder one is the seemingly contradictory term "Rifle-Musket" that could applied to any Rifled Small-Arm (muzzle-loading, Breach-loading, Reapeating, etc.) whom's purpose was in being equipped to the rank-and-file infantry in Linear-Combat (and often open order as well) which was eventually supplanted by the term "Infantry Rifle" and later "Universal Short Rifle / Dragoon Rifle" and eventually just "Rifle", with people reffering to "musket" as a military weapon in the informal sense deep into the 20th century ( the song "I Didn't Raise My Boy to be a Soldier! I Brought him up to be My Pride and Joy! Who dares to place a Musket on his shoulder, to shoot some other mother's darling boy?" comes to mind) Even though soldiers armed with repeating Rifles of some variety since the 1860's on, and the capabilities therein not enormously changed, doesn't mean that we Fought WW1 with 18th century, Smooth Bore, Muzzle-Loaded Muskets, and Sailing Ships, because we referred continued to their replacements in an obsolete manner. My point being that the idiosyncrasies of language doesn't mean that "Ironclads" or "Rifles" didn't exist, or functioned as an inherently different system on a de-facto basis, and that concept can be just as readily applied to many other historical nouns, Ninja's included. A far more Damning consequence of language shift is how many people keep thinking that the previous "Great War" wasn't so bad on account of the terms for pain, suffering, catharsis, Revanchism, and sadistic pleasure keep changing. Take almost any of the quotes from this documentary here: ua-cam.com/video/Pqik0WDMDco/v-deo.html (It's about the Crimean War 1853 - 1856, It's perhaps too British, and a bit heavy-handed in the old BBC 1990's style, but it gets the point across.) Sincerely, Ben Skorupka
Holy wall of text, Batman! =P I hear what you're saying, Ben. My main contention with using the word ninja is that it has baggage now. Back during the Sengoku, it was accurate to call a spy or scout as a ninja (or shinobi no mono, to be more accurate). But now if you say, "There are ninjas working in the CIA," most people immediately think of a secret Japanese martial arts dude, not a normal spy. That's why I think it's important to define the definition of ninja, and decide from there whether or not that existed. If you define ninja as a person who engaged in secret warfare, I would agree that ninjas did exist.
(Text-Wall Level: Bergen op Zoom) Whilst I fully agree with you that the word "Ninja" has baggage, I think that the issue with the existence of Ninjas and it's distinct martial art Ninjitsu is a matter of (often comical) overstatement and distortion, rather than fabrication, given how A: We know a lot about Alchemy despite most of it being written down in often fantastical allegories, with it's practitioners heavily clique-riddled, petty, secretive, and magically pretentious. B: The Japanese had a habit of turning everything into a Martial Art of sorts. (could just be another Edo-Period thing) D: Usage and mentioning of Magical/Medical/Philosophical/Scientific/Alchemical/Religious/Folkloric/Musical/Etc. terminology and practices has a well established tendency of permeating Martial Arts, whether or not those terms/practices are particularly contemporary or even accurate unto their own origins. (everyone has some variant of the Idea of CHI, for the French it's Elan, for the Hawaiians Mana, Etc.) C: Even if Ninjitsu was/is merely a form of Espionage, that doesn't mean it isn't substantially unique/idiosyncratic to Japan, such to warrant it's own name, given how the same can be said of Widespread ( as in: spread to most armies by the 18th century ) Martial Art that is Sabre Fencing (fencing including sparring in general, for instance HEMA) in that despite being (broadly) the same weapon, it's usage has many different Schools, often competing/evolving against each other, with the name of the weapon spelt and spoken of in the tongue of the respective School in question. I just realized that I've spent a whole hour on this one comment, and that it is 1:35 AM, and I need to sleep eventually, It's been fun so far, hope to pick up at a different comment, unless this one still has juice! :) Sincerely, Ben Skorupka
I would agree with you if a shinobi no mono was someone practicing a *form* of secret warfare. I think that would make them unique to Japan and would warrant a word to differentiate them from spies around the world. As I understand it, during the Sengoku, shinobi no mono was a catch-all term for anyone engaging in secret warfare. During the Edo Period, there were definitely people called shinobi working for the Tokugawa shogunate and daimyos, although they were usually called by other names. It was a profession, or was used for multiple different professions, rather than some secret society. I think in the Edo Period, you could say ninjas were real if the definition is some form of spy working for the shogunate. I'm fine with that. I guess I place more importance on the concept rather than the label. So there are ways to keep the label of ninja/shinobi alive by defining it differently. The video is more about how the concept of the ninja as people in a secret society who specialized in secret warfare, with teachings passed down through the generations, etc. was not real. P.S. Oh no, you should not spend that much time on one comment. Go to bed! =P
Thank you for pointing out more critically and academically that most covert operations tended to be carried out by Shinobi (Ninja) who were from the Bushi (Samurai) class--- which highly makes sense... Samurai in the Sengoku Period and even before that were very much professionally well-trained soldiers and warriors, favoring combat efficiency over impractical values of honorable one on one duels as romanticized in popular media... So tactics of reconnaissance, infiltration, arson, assassination, guerrilla and asymmetrical warfare were not below their dignity and they'd be willing to use it to their full advantage... Samurai who were Ninja were essentially your Sengoku era Green Berets and NAVY Seals, almost special force-like soldiers who were not only bred for combat, but also possess a talent for covert espionage. It's been real tiresome of hearing people say that Samurai and Ninja were sworn enemies because of different moral codes and tactics--- far from the case... Bushi/Samurai was a social class and status where as Shinobi/Ninja was a job anyone can do regardless of social class this included Samurai... Keep up the great work, Linfamy! you earned a like and subscriber from me for your solid and well-written research : )
@@Linfamy Your welcome sir! Much appreciated that you like my well-thought out post... Especially when we are able to exchange through informative conversations with our own knowledge while also learning something new from others : )
Sure. Just like fairies snd aliens. Wait- maybe they ARE fairies snd aliens! That explains everything! It couldn't be that they're all made up. Unless, of course, you're sane.
I live pretty close to Iga so I've gone to see the ninja museum stuff there a few times. If I recall, I believe the explanation for the hand gestures wasn't too actually conjure literal things, but they were used more as a kind of power stance thing, more like "ok if I do these hand movements I can boost my chi and do really well in this inevitable fight! Yooooosh!~"
Late to the party, but the signaling signals could be a possiblity, but I'm sure they would be different from the "Common" ninja hand gestures, as those are more religious as figgy mentioned
Hattori hanzo was considered a "Shinobi no mono" and he saved Tokugawa against thr Takeda army... Iga was divided in 53 clans and they are known to have strong Guerrilha tactics, this is why Iga is considered the birthplace of Ninjutsu... Edo ninjutsu manuals like shoninki or banseshukai are not fiction... actually there are in japan today more than 300 fragments of ninjutsu... and even japanese historians agree that ninjas and ninjutsu existed... they are spies like modern ones... ( according to shoninki, some of them works only in espionage i their entire lives, they are the shinobi no mono ) Ninjutsu is an art like kenjutsu, Ju Jutsu or NaginataJutsu if you practices Kenjutsu makes you a Kenshi ( swordmen) if you practices Ninjutsu makes you a shinobi (spy) some of them are real professional spies, most of them are not
Naruto (well some of it) is actually based on the Gallant Tale of Jiraiya. The names Sarutobi and Sasuke come from the name of one of the supposedly most strong ninja ever.
There are only a few lineages that are still recognized by credible Japanese institutions. Have you consulted members of these lineages in order to have a better understanding of Shinobi? I highly recommend it. Shinano Prefecture (Nagano) is one of the places where Ninpo began. Moving to Iizuna, by way of Togakushi (Togakure), then spreading to Shiga (Kōka) and Mie (Iga). I would highly recommend you seek out Soke Masaaki Hatsumi in Noda-shi (Chiba-Ken). I think after spending some time with him, your perspective may change.
About the "no mercenaries in Japan" thing, I think I've read around that during the Sengoku era the Buddhist warrior monks that hauled from many temples were effectively used as mercenaries by the warring clans. The reason is that Buddhist temples grew particularly autonomous over time and, during times of civil strife like the Sengoku, the temples would raise military forces to defend their economic interests and forced many clans to appease them and pay them up to fight on their side.
Shinobinomono(忍びの者) = Ninja(忍者) Both have the same meaning. There were many ninja besides Iga and Koka. Ninja also exists in the Edo period, and each lord was hired. A contract as a ninja with a lord, a document instructed to use ninjutsu during Boshin War, a document instructed to investigate Perry's warships, etc. are found in the descendant's house of Ninja.
I suppose it’s sort of like the myth of Būshidō (I do hope I spelled that correctly); The Samurai, much like the European Knight, didn’t really follow a code of chivalry. Instead, they were private armies under the employ of a Lord or Vassal, who housed and paid them for their services.
I finally watched this. Though I am severly dissapointed to learn that Ninjas are akin to the tooth fairy, I have enough emotional intelligence to not tell you that you are wrong, uneducated, ignorant etc, because you didn't give me the answer I wanted to hear. You did the research and presented your case . If anyone has an issue I suggest they make a counter youtube video with thier research, sources, facts, animation and porn star references. Well done Sir!
Haha thanks. The issue may come down to how you define ninja, it's entirely possible I may not have explained my position clearly. If you like, check out my pinned comment. I was planning another video to describe the various groups that did secret warfare.
I don't have much on him with regards to ninjas though.. I don't think there's evidence Hattori Hanzo was a ninja. He was a retainer of the Tokugawa, a samurai. He was most famous for helping Tokugawa Ieyasu escape death after Nobunaga's murder by guiding him through Iga territory. This act, and the fact that he was born to an Iga family, were major reasons why he became a famous "ninja" leader.
"A Samurai who sometimes did a undercover work" Congratulations, now you know what is a Ninja (Or at least one of the kind) Of course Ninja DID exist (And there is so many records and stuff which proves it), what didnt exist is the overexagerated stealth warrior which you can see in animes or movies.
There are no ancient records. The referred era for the ninja is the medieval Japan between 1400s and 1600s. Most texts and art come from 1700s and so on. It is a myth
The recent idea of ninja is historically incorrect, of course there were people called ninja back in the time, but os like saying dragons are a mything and you show a Komodo dragon as a conterpoint
@@italucenaz Yeah, thats right if you expect Ninjas to be as Naruto. But well, i have been in Iga Ueno Museum and i have seen makibishi, Kunais, and a lot of tools used by Shinobi at that time. (Also, i have been studying the topic for several years) So yeah, they were real, you can call them Ninjas, or you can call them Thieves, Spies, Mercenaries, etc...
@@FairyTailGrey this is not argument, ninja was a real name, used for a specific kind of role, not thieves, katanas, kunais and ninjatos were not "ninja weapons", they didn't use the costume atributed to them, there were basically not ninjas
Oh good, I was gonna stop watching naruto shipuden for a minute there and i'm in the middle of the 4th great ninja war. ;) Keep the awesome videos coming man. I'm still spreading the word. Can't wait for Dan Carlin's Part 2 of "Supernova in the east"
Ninja might be over exaggerated but they did exist. People of mountain side who havn’t had certificates records or wasn’t ruled by region lord were so called SANKA (サンカ) and they were being bandits and stuff. I believe some of those people were hired from samrai around Sengoku era to seize mountain road or headhunted and become samurai. Therefore ninja outfit tend to inspired from mountain folks.
mick Fujiyama there are definitely records of daimyos employing mountain bandits and thieves to sneak into castles, perform night raids, etc. And if we want to label those ninjas, okay. I don't really have a problem with narrowing down the definition of ninja to that. But all of the other baggage that comes with the word was not true of those people. They did night raids, which included fighting in an army in a conventional way, not sneaking around. There's little evidence of ninja expertise originating from only Iga/Koka, of a tradition of ninja arts passed down through the years of the Sengoku, or of ninja clans.
I think that you don't understand what exist means. It's tempting to assume when someone says that something does not exist that they mean that there is absolutely none of this thing. With some things like unicorns this is in fact how this works, with social sciences the answer has to be extremely nuanced since it is very possible to essentially make a group of people up through manipulating the historical record. This is the fundamental reason that Ninja do not exist, unlike Samurai which are a defined class of people Ninja is at best a loose catchall of diverse and unrelated groups of people. Basically by claiming that Sanka were where ninja actually come from is fundamentally undermining your argument since its loosening the definition and still does not answer as to why that even at the most compelling of arguments we have to assume that the Japanese were regularly intending to write a verb as a noun(totally possible in Japanese of that period, and still is) but never using any grammatical indicators. So basically the idea of ninja as a historical thing is completely hogwash, the idea that people in the modern day use ninja to refer to a diverse array of actions and events that absolutely did exist is relevant.
During the Sengoku period, a guy hid in a closet and went unnoticed. As the clear origin of Ninja, all disbelief is dispelled. And if that don't fly, I can keep on redefining Ninja until their existence is irrefutable. Cause I like ninja movies, so ninja must be real.
Well you have no education in east asian languages... Just shut up and drop that rasist “ALl EaSt lAnGuAGes SoUnd LikE ShiNg ShaNg SHoNG” mentality please :3
It's a 10 minute video. You want him to show the complexity of Japanese history in such a short time-frame? Japan may have had assasins but the point is that they weren't magical superheroes just as the samurai weren't beacons of honour and skill.
I love all the people complaining about this saying "do more research" lmfao you're the one who did the research! Unmasking the myth is well written, he uses tons of primary sources, cites all of his work very well. It is interesting to note that most of the BS that people know about Ninja- and go to the wikipedia page for ninja right now if you dont believe me- was written by this very man, Turnbull. He wrote a dogshit books about ninja, which in the laundromat of information became the basis for what most people know ninja for now. But after he wrote "unmasking the myth" you can go back and realize his old work is uncited, the primary sources are deliberately misrepresented, and it's just poorly written an inaccurate. This new book holds up to true academic rigor, and should be taken more seriously by the people in this comment section. I'm glad you made this video, making this information more accessible for everyone. Great work!
I know this is a very late reply but: I can see why people said that. The Kanji explanation for 忍者 was completely wrong and made the video look very unprofessional for anyone knowing even a little japanese. The criteria in the list were also a little messed up. But his conclusion made sense based on the criteria he chose from a historic point of view.
I do not want to state this, because I am not significant nor important. But personally I have been subscribing this channel for the credibility as I also study history. Yet, this video shows about your minimal sources, which I found, disturb my thought on historical figures. A suggestion : Write your sources inside the video with book-like citation style. And please state where do you lack of studies, where do you believe true, and where do you write your own argument. Thank you, keep up the good work bro.
Is it so difficult to believe that ninjas were literally just spies? I believe most secret services have people with military backgrounds working in espionage, it stands to reason that a particularly sharp-witted samurai would take care of that. Also I don’t know where you got that the “ninja skillset” is exclusive to Japan. There’s bound to be cultural differences brought on by context and culture, but a grappling hook and a concealed weapon work under the same principle in every part of the world.
Gaijun Gumba is doing videos on what we perceive as ninjas. It is definitely interesting to know that they’re usually farmers and lower class people. Who’ve forged their own weapons from old tools.
I've taken martial arts since I was ten years old and since I grew into my teen years and adulthood I always wondered why ninjitsu had so much fantasy mixed with legitimate training and why it was so hard to tell what historical ninjas actually did and trained in and what was made up by media fantasy(other than flying of coarse). No one can make up a myth about Karate, Judo, or Western Boxing and have it stick in the public mind the same way it has been done with Ninjitsu because many people take these other martial arts and know the difference between the real training and bs but Ninjas are almost never there to speak about their art, .....and even if they are it's debatable that they know the real thing. If what you claim is true it simplifies they mystery to a large degree.
My main problem with this video is not the content of the video. I generally enjoy your content. But, basing everything on this video about a book by Stephen Turnbill book is a bit problematic. As many people have said, Turnbill is just one opinion. He is known as the Japanese pop historian. His books are good at skimming the surface level. But, that is about it. As a fellow historian it does suck that there is not a lot of contemporary sources when it comes to what we call shinobi/ninjas that are not in folk tales/kabuki/and other second hand accounts. This is what Turnbill says when there are no other accounts. I do have different definition of ninja and don't think samurai and ninja were separate. As my martial artist and Japanese teacher in high school as well as my Japanese professors (many of which were actual Japanese) have said. Samurai and ninja were not two different job classes like in an rpg, but rather jobs that needed done. In the Edo period, the classical ideas of ninja clans, or at least specialists starts to become commonplace. Although these are based on legends, which might not be agreeable sources based on modern source work. So, we can take these legends with a grain of salt. However, I don't think we can discount them. We do have tons of archaeological evidence for ninjas and second hand accounts for individuals who did jobs that we would consider shinobi/ninjas. Again, love your content, but using just one source to promote this opinion is just as bad as the people using Anthony Cummins art of Ninjutsu. You need some more source work to definitively say something like ninjas didn't exist. Especially, when Turnbill is the source of the claim.
Turnbull is well regarded as a historian overall. And he himself rejected his past work on ninja since it was too dependent on folklore rather than hard research.
I mean, your own evidence seems to prove they are real. “Yeah mercenaries aren’t really a thing, except for these guys from Iga, who are expert super warriors and often highly praised for their ability to conduct secret warfare.”
I've watched Gaijinn Goombah. I know they existed but dang did they make themselves good at _not_ existing. Ninjas are the only people capable of hiding by standing down the hall doing nothing but covering their eyes. Lets see a military soldier in camouflage do that.
One quick question. Many of pop culture's classic ninja weapons are peasant tools, nunchaku are grain flails for instance, so how did those make their way into the ninja mythos.
Because Iga and Koga (where the ninjas came from) was massively outnumbered in the Sengoku period and under constant attack by Tokugawa and his allies. So the peasant class took up arms and used what was available in their daily lives as weapons, such as a sickle for example. A large part of ninjutsu is turning ordinary everyday items into lethal objects. Also they had to be able to hide them as armies passed by, so they wouldn't be suspected as spies (another ninja trait) or as straight up warriors, which they also were. So they carried around their weapons, and were not suspected as being dangerous by the enemy. This video goes a bit too hard on disproving ninjas, they did exist. Maybe they were exaggerated for being too cool but that's beside the point.
Knowing that ninjas are just myths just makes me like them even more. Also knowing that life in Japan is not like anime and bushido is fiction among other japan-related myths makes this one no surprise either.
I'm Japanese, i'm sorry bro, i disagree. U done some research based on western book, i appreciate But if u just research by western side it's unfair is not that easy. For example read the book Bansenshukai u will found something that not explain by that western book. And we japanese people have some tendency to not so open to western people. So u think that book really dependable to unveil all that ninja secrets and state that ninja doesnt exist ?? Come on man, u have gotta come up something better Thats not that simple bro, A lot of Ninjutsu student and Grandmasters will surely disagree with u and by the evidence u show. U really think secret of ninja will be so clumsy to be spread or by mistake hand over to some one outside ?? Go to Japan, see fo urself if u can meet Togakure ryu Grandmaster Masaki Hatsumi he will tell u something u dont know and Surely, if there are others Japanese ninjutsu student see this video they will found this video as joke. But Thanks for ur effort.
So where is your proof? It sounds like your just a movie fan who swallowed the lie cause it felt good. While I get why fantasies are more attractive than reality, whining won't make it so. Being Japanese doesn't give you ninja powers to avoid being a sucker. Ninjutsu is a fantasy unworthy of serious study or belief. "Ninjutsu" so-called "grand masters" are liars peddling snake oil to make a buck - fall for their lies if it feels good to you, but don't pretend its real. Those incompetent frauds have one single skill - parting suckers from their cash. Maybe start off explaining their backpedaling on the totally fictional "Ninjato", and then maybe we'll talk. Offer up some actual evidence, or go back to your fantasy movies and pretend its really history. Quietly - maybe use your ninja powers.
Bujinkan is full of bullshit. As a former student(3 years during 2000s), I can tell you it is a mcdojo. There are some somewhat legit techniques stolen from other shitty martial arts, but it's just fantasy
@@BlackSunRX2008 disagree. maybe the dojo was shit. lets first considerate the cat that you only did 3 years. In fact you might have never met a grandmaster. There are a lot of legit techniques. And ofc Bujikan wasn't an only Japanese thing because it spread through the Asian world. I aint saying that bujikan doesnt have its own bs sometimes (like the hand gestures), But in the other hand everything does. I am a 7year old student in greece and i have reached my first Dan. From what i have learnt, (and i am a person of critical thinking, like, the fact that im an atheist, and a person of facts) Bujikan does teach a lot of useful things, not only techniques, but history and patience which is the most important thing, unless ofc your teacher is a bad one. but that doesnt mean that you can fight and win someone who has trained his whole life to fight with people in a cage or a ring.
@@ΤΕΚΜΩ I actually had a great sensei, wich is why I stayed. But the longer I trained, the more I saw how the techniques required a willing uke. And don't get me wrong, I had the best training partner I could wish. A beefy dude, who was very resistant to pain and would resist and push me to be my best. Thing is, the method of training is hopeless if realistic sparring is ignored. Don't bother replying to say it's my dojo who's at fault or etc. I've seen plenty of videos from other dojos and even from Hatsumi himself. Whose "superior" technique, by the way, is laughable and I can't believe someone would willingly follow his teachings. Himself and the "art" are both fraudulent and based on myth and simple testimony, many from Hatsumi and Takamatsu. There are no ancient manuscripts, there's no art, we are a cheap copy of karate+aikido, both pretty shitty themselves...
@@BlackSunRX2008 dissagree man. half of the stuff you will learn there isnt even something that you would try out in the roads. its traditional. that doesn't mean its useless. I am soory my friend but i cant explain this to you if you nevere have reached the black belt at least. And a good sensei wouldnt just show you how to do this and that, but he would explain the point behind them. My sensei after class would say sometimes "lets go grab a beer kid its on me" and afterwards at the bar we would talk about bujikan and many stuff related to that. and please.. dont say its a karate copy. you never reached the black belt and you can say that? such ignorance... idk about aikido, but Bujikans whole principal about how you move in a fight is completely different..
> There is no single scroll. How else would you train ninja? That’s just... actually wrong. Firstly, techniques weren’t supposed to be passed down by literature, but from master to student. They were clan techniques, and there was no single unifier for how things should be done. Secondly, we actually do have a primary source - the Bansenshukai, written by one Fujibayashi, was a text written in 1676 to preserve techniques, as well as scrolls like the Shoninki.
All that babble and you still can't show that ninjas were a social class or secret society rather than just "random spy/saboteur/sapper/robber/etc under the employ of lord/shogun." Having some samurai or jizamurai men teaching their sons or proteges doesn't make them "ninja clans."
I have not seen or watched this video yet but what I am saying is my knowledge on what a ninja really is. A ninja is not more than a spy they worked with the samurai as the same or similar unit all they did was serve as a forward scout only assasanating if nessisary. I will watch this video and put my response in the comments, great historical videos by the way.
Why must a ninja be an elite group of stealth techniques or unique to Japan? Sounds like you are placing unrealistic expectations on a biased perspective of what something needs to be.
0:35 ...the guy in a dark suit is a misunderstanding. In the japanese kabuki-theater 'dark suit' means 'invisible' s.k.o. like in the joke, when an army-unit walked over a bridge marked as 'destroyed' on a maneuver, and the last man of the company carried a sign, reading: "we're swimming"...! ;-) IF ninjas wore camo, it was rather grey or dark blue than black...! ...and b.t.w.... ...fighting was only ~1/10 of ninja's technics... If a spy is forced to fight, something went very wrong before...! (sorry, but in this aspect James Bond is nonsense too...! ;-) 9:10 ...perhaps the grim image of 'supernatural ninjas' was part of their psycological warfare - as mentioned in Sun-Tsu's 'Art of war'...?
There's a ninja film from 1980 called Shogun's Ninja featuring Sonny Chiba and Hiroyuki Sanada. It's about the Momochi Clan vs Hideyoshi. The movie is weird but fun to watch, especially the fight scenes, and would reccomend it.
So from what I can gather, your position may be the most accurate one. There were people in the Sengoku period who did all kinds of stealthy, hidden acts, which were later embellished into the modern concept of the ninja.
@Linfamy Is there a way I can add captions to your video? I'd love to show your videos to some friends, but I think they won't understand unless there's subtitles in our idiom.
You can: ua-cam.com/users/timedtext_cs_panel?c=UCBkqDNqao03ldC3u78-Pp8g&tab=2 Warning though...UA-cam is removing this feature in Sept 28. Your submitted captions will still be there, but you won't be able to add new captions. It also takes a lot of work to translate 😅
Where did you get these 3 criteria that defines ninjas? And there can always be a division that specializes in secret warfare in their army. That part of the army is called ninjas. Or am missing something here? I'm not very well versed in this subject
1:18 Maybe those three qualities ain't accurate enough to use em as standards to know who shinobi no mono actually is. Well it's just "maybe"... Dr Stephen Turnbull knows waaaaay better than I do no doubt!
@@Linfamy hehehe, nice one, hihihi :) i find relaxing the game music, the slow pace and the strategizing. In fact, this is the only game i find interesting... and there is one phrase the boat men use- it sounds like "iskaraiu ruse", which has a meaning in bulgarian (my language)
Yeah, a lot of people on here like that game. What's that mean in bulgarian? You can never tire of Netflix. I've been into Girl From Nowhere lately, it's so twisted I love it
The hand signs of the Ninja actually were from the Nine Hand Seals (Kuji-In) or (Kuji Goshin Hou), they were a set of hand seals that were used in Buddhism to protect oneself. So it was almost like a spell to cast on oneself before battle pretty much.
I learnt that ninja were hired by samurai to do missions in order to avoid breaking the bushido. Their clothes are not black all the time they needed some camouflage so the color of their clothes vary.
People can say the Ninja didn't exist if they use the same criteria that people who deny that the Byzantine Empire existed, for sure. (Namely that people didn't call them that at the time.) But there's a mountain of Japanese historical accounts of feats of stealth, as a tactic of warfare and subterfuge, and a wealth of remaining historical evidence abounds, to show that warlords took this threat seriously, whatever it may have been called at the time.
I thought it was clear when I laid out the 3 criteria I used, but I must have been unclear =(. To be clear, of course there was secret warfare during the Sengoku, and shinobi no mono was one of the names used for people who engaged in such operations. My objection is with the idea of the ninja as a secretive, distinct, cohesive group or groups that had secret teachings passed down through generations. Does not seem like there is evidence for that. There IS evidence for samurai and people from the lower class engaging in stealth operations, and shinobi no mono was one of the names used for them. I think it comes down to definition. If you're saying we called people shinobi no mono back in the day, we agree that existed. They were normal spies, scouts, assassins, etc. Every country had those kinds of people, but we don't usually call those people from other countries ninja. I was using the definition of ninja as a secretive organization or guild with secret teachings. Back in the day, ninja, or shinobi no mono, was a job/activity, rather than identity. Hope that made sense =)
Can you relate this to the supposed historical ninja Hanzo and the supposed last surviving house of ninjas that's still in Japan? (There's a documentary / UA-cam video about it) Also, what's "kunoichi" and how does that word relate to "shinobi no mono"?
I don't think there's any evidence Hattori Hanzo was a ninja. He was a retainer of the Tokugawa, a samurai. The most famous thing he did was helping Tokugawa Ieyasu escape death after Nobunaga's murder by guiding him through Iga territory. This act, and the fact that he was born to an Iga family, were major reasons why he became a famous "ninja" leader. I'm not familiar with the last surviving house of ninjas...? The word kunoichi is pretty interesting. The popular view is that it means female ninja, but that's false. There is one reference to it in a ninjutsu manual: kunoichi jutsu (female technique?). It was a strategy of putting a maid or servant into the enemy's household to gather info. It does not relate to shinobi at all. A 1950s Japanese writer distorted this to mean a female ninja. There are two possible reasons why kunoichi could mean female. According to the same 1950s writer, "ku" sounds like "kyu" or nine. So "ku-no-ichi" means "nine plus one," and "nine plus one" means female because a female has 10 orifices versus a male's 9 (yeah, think about THAT). The other possible reason is that strokes for the three characters ku, no, and ichi can be cleverly combined to form the character for woman.
Hiroyuki K wrote: "Ninja = Sinobinomono. Just a different way to read the kanji "ninja". In Japan, "technique is not what you learn but what you steal" So do not leave any detailed literature. Of course it seems that living a very different life from the ninja believed by Western people."
I have a few questions I've been wanting to ask - do you have Japanese ancestry, and can you read Japanese? If you do not have Japanese family members, what attracted you to that country and its history? On a side note: I lolled at the Son Goku period :p
Thanks for asking! Nah, I have no Japanese ancestry (that I know of!), nor can I speak Japanese. I became fascinated with the culture since childhood. Going to blame it on anime. When I was a kid, anime wasn't a thing. A local public access channel bought the rights to play Robotech and Dragonball, and they showed it on TV at night. It was probably one of the first channels in the US to play an anime series. That was my first taste and I was hooked for a long time. I eventually grew out of the anime phase, but I still love Japanese culture =) I started making these history videos because I was trying to look up early Japanese history on UA-cam and couldn't find much. Hm this post got a bit longer than expected =P
4 years later. Watching this video, I am more convinced they really did exist. They are so good at keeping their trade a secret, we can’t find any trace of their existence. Linfamy nice try, you can’t fool me. 😜
Ok... look up Bansenshukai, buy it, and read it. Look up Yoshie Minami and Antony Cummins. Look up there collective works and extensive research on Shinobi culture. I've got the Bansenshukai sitting right next to me, and let me tell you, while what you mentioned at the beginning wasn't the norm, there were certain clans of Shinobi at the time, and to this day they are a secretive bunch, though nobody is really trained anymore. In the books, it describes the Shinobi as a specific group of people, real people.
I wonder if ninja are in the same situation as anime and manga: Outside of Japan - anime means Japanese animation. Manga means Japanese comic. In Japan - anime means any animation. Manga just means comic. Japanese would call Disney movies anime and they would say that Marvel makes mangas. What I'm wondering is, would Japanese call James Bond a ninja.
The ninja was hired by a samurai. They are spies. Ninja was in Iga City, Mie Prefecture and Koga, Shiga Prefecture. All the residents are ninja. Their lives are not recorded. Because they are ninjas. Ninja who disguised mainly as medicine seller, traveler, entertainer and heard the situation of enemy country. It is their job to report these information to the samurai. Of course, they were also assassinating. The ninja was hired by a samurai and his status was very low.
Only ninja I knew of was the guy name "bushwack" that ninja'd my lv 80 epic neckless from Naxxramas back in 2008... He was kicked and never to be seen again.
Mmh...But, if during the Edo Period manuals were written about "ninja" tactics, this means that probably these techniques already existed and were effective (magic apart...), so: have we informations about similarities between ninjutsu techniques reported in the texts and Chinese or maybe Korean spying/killing techniques??
So Turnbull suggests that the "ninja" tactics evolved from tactics in Chinese military texts, which the Japanese were familiar with. Or they could have evolved from real stories of secret warfare, which happened all the time in the Sengoku even if they weren't performed by ninjas. I would challenge the idea that the techniques in ninjutsu manuals from the Edo Period were effective though. Edo was a much more peaceful time, there's no evidence that the Japanese took these manuals seriously.
From what I've read up, Ninjutsu was a thing, but it was just a collective set of skills taught to Samurai and other fighting men, they weren't really an organized group or type of warrior. Embellished or not though, a lot of the Edo period Ninjutsu texts usually mention some kind of foreign origin, usually China.
Linfamy Have you watched the documentary Fight Science? If nothing else it seems like the heart stopping punch is real. They tested it on a crash test dummy
Shane Goodson From what I understand, ninjutsu was a thing in the Edo Period, but I don't think it was taken seriously in military operations. It may have been something like a martial arts practiced by people.
This is a fine video, but it can be said that there is a certain bias based on mostly the works of Turnbull. It brushes off the Edo period writings and other accounts that it is not reliable, and makes for a case that Ninjas were not real. It is kinda untrue. Since the Ninjutsu later evolved to become a martial art form, it can be argued that the martial art had developed sometimes in the course of history. If it is the case, then these findings only state that the origin of ninjas and modern ninjutsu may not be in the Sengoku period where the situations led to a lot of secret warfare but in the later period starting from Edo. The idea here is rather opinionated, since if we consider that there were regular soldiers doing some secret or stealth mission, then we have to also accept that there must have been trainings in stealth tactics and warfare because it is not something that you can get right just within a day, and requires a lot of training to not being detected and jeopardizing the missions. So, even though there may be a normal and mundane origin story to them, like it is supposed to, it does not mean that there were no warriors in those periods of japan doing secret works and stealth missions. If they were there, it is well possible that these trends led to the myths and subsequent ninjutsu. People today learn Ninjutsu Ffs, and be it sengoku or edo or 1950s that martial art had originated somewhere in that time.
Follow up: There seems to be some misunderstanding about my position.
I thought it was clear when I laid out the 3 criteria I used to define a ninja, but maybe not =(. If your definition of ninja does not include those criteria, we are talking about different things.
To be clear, of course there was secret warfare during the Sengoku, and shinobi no mono was one of the names used for people who engaged in such operations. Shinobi no mono = ninja. In fact, I was planning another ninja video on such people =)
My objection is with the idea of the ninja as a secretive, distinct, cohesive group or groups that had secret teachings passed down through generations. Does not seem like there is evidence for that. There IS evidence for samurai and people from the lower class engaging in stealth operations, and shinobi no mono was one of the names used for them.
I think it comes down to definition. If you're saying we called people shinobi no mono back in the day, we agree. That existed. They were normal spies, scouts, assassins, etc. Every country had those kinds of people, but we don't usually call those people from other countries ninja. I was using the definition of ninja as people in a secretive organization or guild with secret teachings.
My actual position is that ninja, or shinobi no mono, was a job/activity, rather than identity. For example, if I samurai went on a spying mission, you could have said he assumed a "ninja" role for that mission. Hope I've explained my position clearly =)
Check out the eye-opening book mentioned:
Ninja: Unmasking the Myth book: amzn.to/2Ofx7kE
Kenneth Knoppik haha hope not!
I'm thinking of two things: 1, The Kanji's traditional usage is similar to the curren't colloquial slang adverb usage "Ninja" as in "He Just Ninja'd the Capture Point, right in front of the enemy Team! BoxTrot Spy Is Pay To Win!" The second thing I'm thinking of is how the Historically word "Ironclad" or "Armour-Clad" in regards to Naval Warfare was overwhelmingly used as an adjective that described that any ship had Armour, and not that they were a distinct class in the doctrinal sense, for instance a Floating-Battery, Gunboat, Bomb, Sloop, Corvette, Post-Ship, Frigate, Cruiser, or Ship-Of-The-Line (often shortened to Man-O-War, Great-Ship, or just "Liner") could all be "Armour-Clad" ex: "Armour-Clad Frigate". Another even weirder one is the seemingly contradictory term "Rifle-Musket" that could applied to any Rifled Small-Arm (muzzle-loading, Breach-loading, Reapeating, etc.) whom's purpose was in being equipped to the rank-and-file infantry in Linear-Combat (and often open order as well) which was eventually supplanted by the term "Infantry Rifle" and later "Universal Short Rifle / Dragoon Rifle" and eventually just "Rifle", with people reffering to "musket" as a military weapon in the informal sense deep into the 20th century ( the song "I Didn't Raise My Boy to be a Soldier! I Brought him up to be My Pride and Joy! Who dares to place a Musket on his shoulder, to shoot some other mother's darling boy?" comes to mind) Even though soldiers armed with repeating Rifles of some variety since the 1860's on, and the capabilities therein not enormously changed, doesn't mean that we Fought WW1 with 18th century, Smooth Bore, Muzzle-Loaded Muskets, and Sailing Ships, because we referred continued to their replacements in an obsolete manner. My point being that the idiosyncrasies of language doesn't mean that "Ironclads" or "Rifles" didn't exist, or functioned as an inherently different system on a de-facto basis, and that concept can be just as readily applied to many other historical nouns, Ninja's included. A far more Damning consequence of language shift is how many people keep thinking that the previous "Great War" wasn't so bad on account of the terms for pain, suffering, catharsis, Revanchism, and sadistic pleasure keep changing. Take almost any of the quotes from this documentary here: ua-cam.com/video/Pqik0WDMDco/v-deo.html (It's about the Crimean War 1853 - 1856, It's perhaps too British, and a bit heavy-handed in the old BBC 1990's style, but it gets the point across.)
Sincerely, Ben Skorupka
Holy wall of text, Batman! =P
I hear what you're saying, Ben. My main contention with using the word ninja is that it has baggage now. Back during the Sengoku, it was accurate to call a spy or scout as a ninja (or shinobi no mono, to be more accurate). But now if you say, "There are ninjas working in the CIA," most people immediately think of a secret Japanese martial arts dude, not a normal spy.
That's why I think it's important to define the definition of ninja, and decide from there whether or not that existed. If you define ninja as a person who engaged in secret warfare, I would agree that ninjas did exist.
(Text-Wall Level: Bergen op Zoom) Whilst I fully agree with you that the word "Ninja" has baggage, I think that the issue with the existence of Ninjas and it's distinct martial art Ninjitsu is a matter of (often comical) overstatement and distortion, rather than fabrication, given how A: We know a lot about Alchemy despite most of it being written down in often fantastical allegories, with it's practitioners heavily clique-riddled, petty, secretive, and magically pretentious. B: The Japanese had a habit of turning everything into a Martial Art of sorts. (could just be another Edo-Period thing) D: Usage and mentioning of Magical/Medical/Philosophical/Scientific/Alchemical/Religious/Folkloric/Musical/Etc. terminology and practices has a well established tendency of permeating Martial Arts, whether or not those terms/practices are particularly contemporary or even accurate unto their own origins. (everyone has some variant of the Idea of CHI, for the French it's Elan, for the Hawaiians Mana, Etc.) C: Even if Ninjitsu was/is merely a form of Espionage, that doesn't mean it isn't substantially unique/idiosyncratic to Japan, such to warrant it's own name, given how the same can be said of Widespread ( as in: spread to most armies by the 18th century ) Martial Art that is Sabre Fencing (fencing including sparring in general, for instance HEMA) in that despite being (broadly) the same weapon, it's usage has many different Schools, often competing/evolving against each other, with the name of the weapon spelt and spoken of in the tongue of the respective School in question.
I just realized that I've spent a whole hour on this one comment, and that it is 1:35 AM, and I need to sleep eventually, It's been fun so far, hope to pick up at a different comment, unless this one still has juice! :)
Sincerely, Ben Skorupka
I would agree with you if a shinobi no mono was someone practicing a *form* of secret warfare. I think that would make them unique to Japan and would warrant a word to differentiate them from spies around the world. As I understand it, during the Sengoku, shinobi no mono was a catch-all term for anyone engaging in secret warfare.
During the Edo Period, there were definitely people called shinobi working for the Tokugawa shogunate and daimyos, although they were usually called by other names. It was a profession, or was used for multiple different professions, rather than some secret society. I think in the Edo Period, you could say ninjas were real if the definition is some form of spy working for the shogunate. I'm fine with that.
I guess I place more importance on the concept rather than the label. So there are ways to keep the label of ninja/shinobi alive by defining it differently. The video is more about how the concept of the ninja as people in a secret society who specialized in secret warfare, with teachings passed down through the generations, etc. was not real.
P.S. Oh no, you should not spend that much time on one comment. Go to bed! =P
The only people who deny the existence of Ninja, are Ninja. Nice try Ninja.
You mean the blue haired brainless gamer guy?
You’ve got him there.
Exactly. If you check closely you will see that those "only 5" reports of Iga and Koga ninja at 8:21 are all the same.
Ninja and Samurai means the same thing.
"Ninja" is a made up western term.
Japan unfortunately today are trying hard to turn "Ninja" into a real thing.
What better place to hide than nonexsitence?
Alright this cracked me up :D
Genius
I agree
I agree, if right time come they sure will appear
This comment is the reason why people don't give up on reading comments. Ninjas would be so glad to hear that. You have them figured out.
the lack of rasengans in this video is appalling
I am ashamed
Only a few shinobi can use that technique, and most of them are hyperactive knuckleheads
@@kurama670 since when do tailed beasts have youtube accounts?
Thank you for pointing out more critically and academically that most covert operations tended to be carried out by Shinobi (Ninja) who were from the Bushi (Samurai) class--- which highly makes sense... Samurai in the Sengoku Period and even before that were very much professionally well-trained soldiers and warriors, favoring combat efficiency over impractical values of honorable one on one duels as romanticized in popular media... So tactics of reconnaissance, infiltration, arson, assassination, guerrilla and asymmetrical warfare were not below their dignity and they'd be willing to use it to their full advantage... Samurai who were Ninja were essentially your Sengoku era Green Berets and NAVY Seals, almost special force-like soldiers who were not only bred for combat, but also possess a talent for covert espionage.
It's been real tiresome of hearing people say that Samurai and Ninja were sworn enemies because of different moral codes and tactics--- far from the case... Bushi/Samurai was a social class and status where as Shinobi/Ninja was a job anyone can do regardless of social class this included Samurai...
Keep up the great work, Linfamy! you earned a like and subscriber from me for your solid and well-written research : )
Thanks for the well thought-out post :)
@@Linfamy Your welcome sir!
Much appreciated that you like my well-thought out post... Especially when we are able to exchange through informative conversations with our own knowledge while also learning something new from others : )
Kagebushin jutsu exists. In my country we call it mirror.
🤦♂️😅
LOL
Lmao XD
Of couse you wont find any evidence of Ninjas . If they left any they would not be very good ninjas
genius.
Too bad they couldn't hide the leaf village from Pain
Sure. Just like fairies snd aliens. Wait- maybe they ARE fairies snd aliens! That explains everything! It couldn't be that they're all made up. Unless, of course, you're sane.
Jeff Zeiler of course I am sane I got a certificate from my doctor to prove it. The purple baboon agrees with me
They could tell you, but then they'd have to kill you
This is the first video where I’ve heard him not struggle with “phenomenon”. I’m very proud
Thank you 🥲
@@Linfamy Make a video about Delta Force myths.
I live pretty close to Iga so I've gone to see the ninja museum stuff there a few times. If I recall, I believe the explanation for the hand gestures wasn't too actually conjure literal things, but they were used more as a kind of power stance thing, more like "ok if I do these hand movements I can boost my chi and do really well in this inevitable fight! Yooooosh!~"
Ah that makes more sense :p
They use those hands gestures in shingon Buddhism as Mudra
@@ZacharyBittner Yes, Buddhism is essential to ninjutsu.
Or probably they used hand signals to inform their team members nearby without making sounds.
Late to the party, but the signaling signals could be a possiblity, but I'm sure they would be different from the "Common" ninja hand gestures, as those are more religious as figgy mentioned
Hattori hanzo was considered a "Shinobi no mono" and he saved Tokugawa against thr Takeda army...
Iga was divided in 53 clans and they are known to have strong Guerrilha tactics, this is why Iga is considered the birthplace of Ninjutsu... Edo ninjutsu manuals like shoninki or banseshukai are not fiction... actually there are in japan today more than 300 fragments of ninjutsu... and even japanese historians agree that ninjas and ninjutsu existed... they are spies like modern ones... ( according to shoninki, some of them works only in espionage i their entire lives, they are the shinobi no mono )
Ninjutsu is an art like kenjutsu, Ju Jutsu or NaginataJutsu
if you practices Kenjutsu makes you a Kenshi ( swordmen)
if you practices Ninjutsu makes you a shinobi (spy)
some of them are real professional spies, most of them are not
My life is a lie, I don't know what I'm going to do with myself now.
Deep breaths
Yugioh. That or strip clubs
@@Linfamy u kidding me? This is a lie
切腹やれ！
Get a new life, since the old one was a lie
Yes they do! Wasn't NARUTO a documentary?
True, Naruto is the exception :p
Naruto (well some of it) is actually based on the Gallant Tale of Jiraiya. The names Sarutobi and Sasuke come from the name of one of the supposedly most strong ninja ever.
KrayolaBlue91 yeah, the story also includes a woman who can transform into a slug and a man named Orochimaru who can transform into a snake :P
@@Linfamy you mean Tsunade amirite? :)
@aysseralwan yes, I forgot her name! =)
Let's call them "japanese medieval spec-ops" then.
There are only a few lineages that are still recognized by credible Japanese institutions. Have you consulted members of these lineages in order to have a better understanding of Shinobi? I highly recommend it.
Shinano Prefecture (Nagano) is one of the places where Ninpo began. Moving to Iizuna, by way of Togakushi (Togakure), then spreading to Shiga (Kōka) and Mie (Iga).
I would highly recommend you seek out Soke Masaaki Hatsumi in Noda-shi (Chiba-Ken). I think after spending some time with him, your perspective may change.
About the "no mercenaries in Japan" thing, I think I've read around that during the Sengoku era the Buddhist warrior monks that hauled from many temples were effectively used as mercenaries by the warring clans. The reason is that Buddhist temples grew particularly autonomous over time and, during times of civil strife like the Sengoku, the temples would raise military forces to defend their economic interests and forced many clans to appease them and pay them up to fight on their side.
Shinobinomono(忍びの者) = Ninja(忍者)
Both have the same meaning.
There were many ninja besides Iga and Koka.
Ninja also exists in the Edo period, and each lord was hired.
A contract as a ninja with a lord, a document instructed to use ninjutsu during Boshin War, a document instructed to investigate Perry's warships, etc. are found in the descendant's house of Ninja.
Sure, and Santa claus flies around the world in one night bringing toys to good girls and boys.
House of Ninja.
I suppose it’s sort of like the myth of Būshidō (I do hope I spelled that correctly); The Samurai, much like the European Knight, didn’t really follow a code of chivalry. Instead, they were private armies under the employ of a Lord or Vassal, who housed and paid them for their services.
Modern times they would be know as special forces. Doing missions behind the scenes. That when successful you rarely or never hear about.
I finally watched this. Though I am severly dissapointed to learn that Ninjas are akin to the tooth fairy, I have enough emotional intelligence to not tell you that you are wrong, uneducated, ignorant etc, because you didn't give me the answer I wanted to hear. You did the research and presented your case . If anyone has an issue I suggest they make a counter youtube video with thier research, sources, facts, animation and porn star references.
Well done Sir!
Haha thanks. The issue may come down to how you define ninja, it's entirely possible I may not have explained my position clearly. If you like, check out my pinned comment. I was planning another video to describe the various groups that did secret warfare.
@@Linfamy I saw the pinned comment. In my humble opinion, I got it. You didn't have to re-explain yourself.
I read that the Shinobi took advantage of the myths around them to increase their secrecy
Can’t wait for you video about Hattori Hanso!!!
I don't have much on him with regards to ninjas though.. I don't think there's evidence Hattori Hanzo was a ninja. He was a retainer of the Tokugawa, a samurai. He was most famous for helping Tokugawa Ieyasu escape death after Nobunaga's murder by guiding him through Iga territory. This act, and the fact that he was born to an Iga family, were major reasons why he became a famous "ninja" leader.
"A Samurai who sometimes did a undercover work" Congratulations, now you know what is a Ninja (Or at least one of the kind)
Of course Ninja DID exist (And there is so many records and stuff which proves it), what didnt exist is the overexagerated stealth warrior which you can see in animes or movies.
There are no ancient records. The referred era for the ninja is the medieval Japan between 1400s and 1600s. Most texts and art come from 1700s and so on. It is a myth
The recent idea of ninja is historically incorrect, of course there were people called ninja back in the time, but os like saying dragons are a mything and you show a Komodo dragon as a conterpoint
@@italucenaz Yeah, thats right if you expect Ninjas to be as Naruto.
But well, i have been in Iga Ueno Museum and i have seen makibishi, Kunais, and a lot of tools used by Shinobi at that time. (Also, i have been studying the topic for several years)
So yeah, they were real, you can call them Ninjas, or you can call them Thieves, Spies, Mercenaries, etc...
@@FairyTailGrey this is not argument, ninja was a real name, used for a specific kind of role, not thieves, katanas, kunais and ninjatos were not "ninja weapons", they didn't use the costume atributed to them, there were basically not ninjas
Oh good, I was gonna stop watching naruto shipuden for a minute there and i'm in the middle of the 4th great ninja war. ;)
Keep the awesome videos coming man. I'm still spreading the word. Can't wait for Dan Carlin's Part 2 of "Supernova in the east"
Oh, don't stop watching. I haven't finished Naruto yet either, I just realized that a few weeks ago :O. Carlin's awesome =)
Ninja might be over exaggerated but they did exist. People of mountain side who havn’t had certificates records or wasn’t ruled by region lord were so called SANKA (サンカ) and they were being bandits and stuff. I believe some of those people were hired from samrai around Sengoku era to seize mountain road or headhunted and become samurai. Therefore ninja outfit tend to inspired from mountain folks.
Hello fellow Fuji. Thank you for taking the time to leave an accurate comment so I didn’t have to write so much. Yoroshiku👹
mick Fujiyama there are definitely records of daimyos employing mountain bandits and thieves to sneak into castles, perform night raids, etc. And if we want to label those ninjas, okay. I don't really have a problem with narrowing down the definition of ninja to that.
But all of the other baggage that comes with the word was not true of those people. They did night raids, which included fighting in an army in a conventional way, not sneaking around. There's little evidence of ninja expertise originating from only Iga/Koka, of a tradition of ninja arts passed down through the years of the Sengoku, or of ninja clans.
I think that you don't understand what exist means. It's tempting to assume when someone says that something does not exist that they mean that there is absolutely none of this thing. With some things like unicorns this is in fact how this works, with social sciences the answer has to be extremely nuanced since it is very possible to essentially make a group of people up through manipulating the historical record.
This is the fundamental reason that Ninja do not exist, unlike Samurai which are a defined class of people Ninja is at best a loose catchall of diverse and unrelated groups of people. Basically by claiming that Sanka were where ninja actually come from is fundamentally undermining your argument since its loosening the definition and still does not answer as to why that even at the most compelling of arguments we have to assume that the Japanese were regularly intending to write a verb as a noun(totally possible in Japanese of that period, and still is) but never using any grammatical indicators.
So basically the idea of ninja as a historical thing is completely hogwash, the idea that people in the modern day use ninja to refer to a diverse array of actions and events that absolutely did exist is relevant.
Everyone knows Santa doesn’t exist, but we know that Santa model does exist. Was Santa today accurate to the historical model？ Maybe not.
During the Sengoku period, a guy hid in a closet and went unnoticed. As the clear origin of Ninja, all disbelief is dispelled. And if that don't fly, I can keep on redefining Ninja until their existence is irrefutable. Cause I like ninja movies, so ninja must be real.
Ninjas may not exist in Nihon, but they exist in my Kokoro~
Mine too
*UMU*
Shing shang shong.
Well you have no education in east asian languages...
Just shut up and drop that rasist “ALl EaSt lAnGuAGes SoUnd LikE ShiNg ShaNg SHoNG” mentality please :3
Wdym
I'm Japanese.
NO‼️
NO‼️
NO‼️
NO‼️
This movie isn't true ‼️
Truth is not simple.
Japanese history is not simple.
It's a 10 minute video. You want him to show the complexity of Japanese history in such a short time-frame?
Japan may have had assasins but the point is that they weren't magical superheroes just as the samurai weren't beacons of honour and skill.
Enlighten us, then.
Then give us the truth, otherwise I'm sticking with the facts I know
T.T Finding out something I love is mere myth hits hard, but already digging the start of the Sengoku period.
Same here, brother. I kind of think of it like The Avengers now. I know they're not real, but I can still enjoy the movies.
I love all the people complaining about this saying "do more research" lmfao you're the one who did the research! Unmasking the myth is well written, he uses tons of primary sources, cites all of his work very well. It is interesting to note that most of the BS that people know about Ninja- and go to the wikipedia page for ninja right now if you dont believe me- was written by this very man, Turnbull. He wrote a dogshit books about ninja, which in the laundromat of information became the basis for what most people know ninja for now. But after he wrote "unmasking the myth" you can go back and realize his old work is uncited, the primary sources are deliberately misrepresented, and it's just poorly written an inaccurate. This new book holds up to true academic rigor, and should be taken more seriously by the people in this comment section. I'm glad you made this video, making this information more accessible for everyone. Great work!
I know this is a very late reply but: I can see why people said that. The Kanji explanation for 忍者 was completely wrong and made the video look very unprofessional for anyone knowing even a little japanese. The criteria in the list were also a little messed up. But his conclusion made sense based on the criteria he chose from a historic point of view.
Times have changed. There's been far more scrutiny applied to the historical info on ninjas.
I do not want to state this, because I am not significant nor important. But personally I have been subscribing this channel for the credibility as I also study history. Yet, this video shows about your minimal sources, which I found, disturb my thought on historical figures.
A suggestion : Write your sources inside the video with book-like citation style. And please state where do you lack of studies, where do you believe true, and where do you write your own argument.
Thank you, keep up the good work bro.
YOU DID IT BROO. IM SO PROUD OF YOU PRONONOUNCING PHENOMENON!
😅
The way I was thought was that anyone doing those activities, whether farmer, samurai, or anyone else was a ninja, not that it was a specific class.
Is it so difficult to believe that ninjas were literally just spies? I believe most secret services have people with military backgrounds working in espionage, it stands to reason that a particularly sharp-witted samurai would take care of that. Also I don’t know where you got that the “ninja skillset” is exclusive to Japan. There’s bound to be cultural differences brought on by context and culture, but a grappling hook and a concealed weapon work under the same principle in every part of the world.
You legit did your research one book and that’s it😂😂😅
Go look up what "peer review" means.
i didnt hear him say in the video that all of his research came from that one book. maybe youre just dumb
Gaijun Gumba is doing videos on what we perceive as ninjas. It is definitely interesting to know that they’re usually farmers and lower class people. Who’ve forged their own weapons from old tools.
Just class warfare fantasy. Plenty of samurai came from farming stock.
I've taken martial arts since I was ten years old and since I grew into my teen years and adulthood I always wondered why ninjitsu had so much fantasy mixed with legitimate training and why it was so hard to tell what historical ninjas actually did and trained in and what was made up by media fantasy(other than flying of coarse). No one can make up a myth about Karate, Judo, or Western Boxing and have it stick in the public mind the same way it has been done with Ninjitsu because many people take these other martial arts and know the difference between the real training and bs but Ninjas are almost never there to speak about their art, .....and even if they are it's debatable that they know the real thing. If what you claim is true it simplifies they mystery to a large degree.
Damn yo boi getting flamed by real Japanese people in the comment section 😂😂
Well all his research into ninjas pans from "one" book, go figure.
"real Japanese"
Irrelevant.
@@NiteF0X You don't believe in peer review.
Americans believe in Bigfoot therefore Bigfoot is real.
My main problem with this video is not the content of the video. I generally enjoy your content. But, basing everything on this video about a book by Stephen Turnbill book is a bit problematic. As many people have said, Turnbill is just one opinion. He is known as the Japanese pop historian. His books are good at skimming the surface level. But, that is about it. As a fellow historian it does suck that there is not a lot of contemporary sources when it comes to what we call shinobi/ninjas that are not in folk tales/kabuki/and other second hand accounts. This is what Turnbill says when there are no other accounts.
I do have different definition of ninja and don't think samurai and ninja were separate. As my martial artist and Japanese teacher in high school as well as my Japanese professors (many of which were actual Japanese) have said. Samurai and ninja were not two different job classes like in an rpg, but rather jobs that needed done. In the Edo period, the classical ideas of ninja clans, or at least specialists starts to become commonplace. Although these are based on legends, which might not be agreeable sources based on modern source work. So, we can take these legends with a grain of salt. However, I don't think we can discount them. We do have tons of archaeological evidence for ninjas and second hand accounts for individuals who did jobs that we would consider shinobi/ninjas.
Again, love your content, but using just one source to promote this opinion is just as bad as the people using Anthony Cummins art of Ninjutsu. You need some more source work to definitively say something like ninjas didn't exist. Especially, when Turnbill is the source of the claim.
Turnbull is well regarded as a historian overall. And he himself rejected his past work on ninja since it was too dependent on folklore rather than hard research.
I mean, your own evidence seems to prove they are real.
“Yeah mercenaries aren’t really a thing, except for these guys from Iga, who are expert super warriors and often highly praised for their ability to conduct secret warfare.”
I've watched Gaijinn Goombah. I know they existed but dang did they make themselves good at _not_ existing. Ninjas are the only people capable of hiding by standing down the hall doing nothing but covering their eyes. Lets see a military soldier in camouflage do that.
One quick question. Many of pop culture's classic ninja weapons are peasant tools, nunchaku are grain flails for instance, so how did those make their way into the ninja mythos.
Because Iga and Koga (where the ninjas came from) was massively outnumbered in the Sengoku period and under constant attack by Tokugawa and his allies. So the peasant class took up arms and used what was available in their daily lives as weapons, such as a sickle for example. A large part of ninjutsu is turning ordinary everyday items into lethal objects. Also they had to be able to hide them as armies passed by, so they wouldn't be suspected as spies (another ninja trait) or as straight up warriors, which they also were. So they carried around their weapons, and were not suspected as being dangerous by the enemy.
This video goes a bit too hard on disproving ninjas, they did exist. Maybe they were exaggerated for being too cool but that's beside the point.
What is the first rule of the underground boxing club ?
There is no boxing club
What's the first rule of ninja?
What is ninja ? Never hear that name
There is no ninja
@@dangduy9727
五瓜に唐花 柴田家か
織田木瓜では無いな
6:55 It's like saying the Empire didn't have specially trained assassins, only stormtroopers.
Also 9:48 Well done on getting the word right.
Knowing that ninjas are just myths just makes me like them even more. Also knowing that life in Japan is not like anime and bushido is fiction among other japan-related myths makes this one no surprise either.
Yeah I've made peace with the idea that popular culture lies to me. Doesn't mean I can't enjoy the fiction though.
I'm Japanese, i'm sorry bro, i disagree. U done some research based on western book, i appreciate
But if u just research by western side it's unfair is not that easy. For example read the book Bansenshukai u will found something that not explain by that western book.
And we japanese people have some tendency to not so open to western people. So u think that book really dependable to unveil all that ninja secrets and state that ninja doesnt exist ?? Come on man, u have gotta come up something better
Thats not that simple bro,
A lot of Ninjutsu student and Grandmasters will surely disagree with u and by the evidence u show.
U really think secret of ninja will be so clumsy to be spread or by mistake hand over to some one outside ??
Go to Japan, see fo urself if u can meet Togakure ryu Grandmaster Masaki Hatsumi he will tell u something u dont know and Surely, if there are others Japanese ninjutsu student see this video they will found this video as joke. But Thanks for ur effort.
So where is your proof? It sounds like your just a movie fan who swallowed the lie cause it felt good. While I get why fantasies are more attractive than reality, whining won't make it so. Being Japanese doesn't give you ninja powers to avoid being a sucker. Ninjutsu is a fantasy unworthy of serious study or belief. "Ninjutsu" so-called "grand masters" are liars peddling snake oil to make a buck - fall for their lies if it feels good to you, but don't pretend its real. Those incompetent frauds have one single skill - parting suckers from their cash. Maybe start off explaining their backpedaling on the totally fictional "Ninjato", and then maybe we'll talk. Offer up some actual evidence, or go back to your fantasy movies and pretend its really history. Quietly - maybe use your ninja powers.
Bujinkan is full of bullshit. As a former student(3 years during 2000s), I can tell you it is a mcdojo. There are some somewhat legit techniques stolen from other shitty martial arts, but it's just fantasy
@@BlackSunRX2008 disagree. maybe the dojo was shit.
lets first considerate the cat that you only did 3 years. In fact you might have never met a grandmaster. There are a lot of legit techniques. And ofc Bujikan wasn't an only Japanese thing because it spread through the Asian world. I aint saying that bujikan doesnt have its own bs sometimes (like the hand gestures), But in the other hand everything does.
I am a 7year old student in greece and i have reached my first Dan. From what i have learnt, (and i am a person of critical thinking, like, the fact that im an atheist, and a person of facts) Bujikan does teach a lot of useful things, not only techniques, but history and patience which is the most important thing, unless ofc your teacher is a bad one.
but that doesnt mean that you can fight and win someone who has trained his whole life to fight with people in a cage or a ring.
@@ΤΕΚΜΩ I actually had a great sensei, wich is why I stayed. But the longer I trained, the more I saw how the techniques required a willing uke. And don't get me wrong, I had the best training partner I could wish. A beefy dude, who was very resistant to pain and would resist and push me to be my best. Thing is, the method of training is hopeless if realistic sparring is ignored. Don't bother replying to say it's my dojo who's at fault or etc. I've seen plenty of videos from other dojos and even from Hatsumi himself. Whose "superior" technique, by the way, is laughable and I can't believe someone would willingly follow his teachings. Himself and the "art" are both fraudulent and based on myth and simple testimony, many from Hatsumi and Takamatsu. There are no ancient manuscripts, there's no art, we are a cheap copy of karate+aikido, both pretty shitty themselves...
@@BlackSunRX2008 dissagree man. half of the stuff you will learn there isnt even something that you would try out in the roads. its traditional. that doesn't mean its useless. I am soory my friend but i cant explain this to you if you nevere have reached the black belt at least. And a good sensei wouldnt just show you how to do this and that, but he would explain the point behind them. My sensei after class would say sometimes "lets go grab a beer kid its on me" and afterwards at the bar we would talk about bujikan and many stuff related to that. and please.. dont say its a karate copy. you never reached the black belt and you can say that? such ignorance... idk about aikido, but Bujikans whole principal about how you move in a fight is completely different..
Thank you for this valuable post! I'm now a subscriber
> There is no single scroll. How else would you train ninja?
That’s just... actually wrong. Firstly, techniques weren’t supposed to be passed down by literature, but from master to student. They were clan techniques, and there was no single unifier for how things should be done.
Secondly, we actually do have a primary source - the Bansenshukai, written by one Fujibayashi, was a text written in 1676 to preserve techniques, as well as scrolls like the Shoninki.
All that babble and you still can't show that ninjas were a social class or secret society rather than just "random spy/saboteur/sapper/robber/etc under the employ of lord/shogun." Having some samurai or jizamurai men teaching their sons or proteges doesn't make them "ninja clans."
@@galten7361 you mean... other than the literal source I already cited? Yeah ok lmao
9:47 "phenomenon do do da do do" I'm so glad to find someone else who does this XD
I have not seen or watched this video yet but what I am saying is my knowledge on what a ninja really is. A ninja is not more than a spy they worked with the samurai as the same or similar unit all they did was serve as a forward scout only assasanating if nessisary. I will watch this video and put my response in the comments, great historical videos by the way.
Why must a ninja be an elite group of stealth techniques or unique to Japan? Sounds like you are placing unrealistic expectations on a biased perspective of what something needs to be.
Very true
I mean ninja is suppose to be japanese not Western or African so obviously they will be unique to Japan
0:35 ...the guy in a dark suit is a misunderstanding.
In the japanese kabuki-theater 'dark suit' means 'invisible'
s.k.o. like in the joke, when an army-unit walked over a bridge marked as 'destroyed' on a maneuver, and the last man of the company carried a sign, reading: "we're swimming"...! ;-)
IF ninjas wore camo, it was rather grey or dark blue than black...!
...and b.t.w....
...fighting was only ~1/10 of ninja's technics...
If a spy is forced to fight, something went very wrong before...!
(sorry, but in this aspect James Bond is nonsense too...! ;-)
9:10 ...perhaps the grim image of 'supernatural ninjas' was part of their psycological warfare - as mentioned in Sun-Tsu's 'Art of war'...?
Hattori Hanzo “am I a joke to you?”
I was searching for this comment XD
"But they were not written in the Sengoku period."
Then how do you explain the Ninpiden written by Hattori Hanzō in 1560?
iie... we’ll just disagree on this one. Nice video.
Yeah, I don't expect everyone to agree. Cheers :)
When I was a kid I wanted to be a Ninja. The 80s type
There's a ninja film from 1980 called Shogun's Ninja featuring Sonny Chiba and Hiroyuki Sanada. It's about the Momochi Clan vs Hideyoshi. The movie is weird but fun to watch, especially the fight scenes, and would reccomend it.
忍者(Ninja)=忍びの(shinobino)者(mono)
So from what I can gather, your position may be the most accurate one. There were people in the Sengoku period who did all kinds of stealthy, hidden acts, which were later embellished into the modern concept of the ninja.
@Linfamy Is there a way I can add captions to your video? I'd love to show your videos to some friends, but I think they won't understand unless there's subtitles in our idiom.
You can: ua-cam.com/users/timedtext_cs_panel?c=UCBkqDNqao03ldC3u78-Pp8g&tab=2
Warning though...UA-cam is removing this feature in Sept 28. Your submitted captions will still be there, but you won't be able to add new captions. It also takes a lot of work to translate 😅
Oh...methinks you stirred up a hot bed of controversy here....!
Hasn't been that bad... yet 😅. Honestly didn't know how people would react.
Where did you get these 3 criteria that defines ninjas? And there can always be a division that specializes in secret warfare in their army. That part of the army is called ninjas. Or am missing something here? I'm not very well versed in this subject
This was so very entertaining thank you creating this. Aloha
No, thank you for watching. Aloha!
Know any good books on the Sengoku Jidai?
Sorry I don't, I've been mostly reading about this early history :/
1:18 Maybe those three qualities ain't accurate enough to use em as standards to know who shinobi no mono actually is. Well it's just "maybe"... Dr Stephen Turnbull knows waaaaay better than I do no doubt!
A ninja is defined by grip strength. If your physiology is different through painful training you are a ninja.
you make me wanna play Total War Shogun.... i have exams sooon.....
DON'T play that... watch Netflix instead :)
@@Linfamy :) nothing interesting for me there... watched the ones i like already. And Total war is a nice game for relaxing :)
Yeah I relax through battles and bloodshed too
@@Linfamy hehehe, nice one, hihihi :) i find relaxing the game music, the slow pace and the strategizing. In fact, this is the only game i find interesting... and there is one phrase the boat men use- it sounds like "iskaraiu ruse", which has a meaning in bulgarian (my language)
Yeah, a lot of people on here like that game. What's that mean in bulgarian?
You can never tire of Netflix. I've been into Girl From Nowhere lately, it's so twisted I love it
The hand signs of the Ninja actually were from the Nine Hand Seals (Kuji-In) or (Kuji Goshin Hou), they were a set of hand seals that were used in Buddhism to protect oneself. So it was almost like a spell to cast on oneself before battle pretty much.
I learnt that ninja were hired by samurai to do missions in order to avoid breaking the bushido. Their clothes are not black all the time they needed some camouflage so the color of their clothes vary.
People can say the Ninja didn't exist if they use the same criteria that people who deny that the Byzantine Empire existed, for sure. (Namely that people didn't call them that at the time.) But there's a mountain of Japanese historical accounts of feats of stealth, as a tactic of warfare and subterfuge, and a wealth of remaining historical evidence abounds, to show that warlords took this threat seriously, whatever it may have been called at the time.
I thought it was clear when I laid out the 3 criteria I used, but I must have been unclear =(. To be clear, of course there was secret warfare during the Sengoku, and shinobi no mono was one of the names used for people who engaged in such operations.
My objection is with the idea of the ninja as a secretive, distinct, cohesive group or groups that had secret teachings passed down through generations. Does not seem like there is evidence for that. There IS evidence for samurai and people from the lower class engaging in stealth operations, and shinobi no mono was one of the names used for them.
I think it comes down to definition. If you're saying we called people shinobi no mono back in the day, we agree that existed. They were normal spies, scouts, assassins, etc. Every country had those kinds of people, but we don't usually call those people from other countries ninja. I was using the definition of ninja as a secretive organization or guild with secret teachings.
Back in the day, ninja, or shinobi no mono, was a job/activity, rather than identity. Hope that made sense =)
It's a good clip all-in-all. Title's a bit clickbaity, though. Keep up the excellent work. :)
Cheers!
↓これが実際の忍者だよ。（NHK制作のNinjaドキュメンタリー）
ua-cam.com/video/bmiWTHcoNas/v-deo.html
Can you relate this to the supposed historical ninja Hanzo and the supposed last surviving house of ninjas that's still in Japan? (There's a documentary / UA-cam video about it) Also, what's "kunoichi" and how does that word relate to "shinobi no mono"?
I don't think there's any evidence Hattori Hanzo was a ninja. He was a retainer of the Tokugawa, a samurai. The most famous thing he did was helping Tokugawa Ieyasu escape death after Nobunaga's murder by guiding him through Iga territory. This act, and the fact that he was born to an Iga family, were major reasons why he became a famous "ninja" leader.
I'm not familiar with the last surviving house of ninjas...?
The word kunoichi is pretty interesting. The popular view is that it means female ninja, but that's false. There is one reference to it in a ninjutsu manual: kunoichi jutsu (female technique?). It was a strategy of putting a maid or servant into the enemy's household to gather info. It does not relate to shinobi at all. A 1950s Japanese writer distorted this to mean a female ninja.
There are two possible reasons why kunoichi could mean female. According to the same 1950s writer, "ku" sounds like "kyu" or nine. So "ku-no-ichi" means "nine plus one," and "nine plus one" means female because a female has 10 orifices versus a male's 9 (yeah, think about THAT).
The other possible reason is that strokes for the three characters ku, no, and ichi can be cleverly combined to form the character for woman.
@@Linfamy there is rather convincing proof of hattori hanzo being a ninja. I watch Gintama so I know :D
@aysseralwan ah true, I stand corrected =)
ua-cam.com/video/GYIK_bRf9WI/v-deo.html
@Calvini2013 good find! Nice choreography there at the end =)
I feel like this topic will be part of the next US prez debates.
8:37 Those are Israeli soldiers, who actually (because of their beret + their gun) are in intelligence and do a lot of stealth work
ニンジャ＝シノビノモノ。
漢字「忍者」の読み方が違うだけ。
日本では「技は習うものではなく盗むもの」だから詳細な文献は残さない。
もちろん西洋の方々が信じる忍者とはだいぶ違った生活をしていたみたいだけど。
sorry, I'm not good at English.
Hiroyuki K wrote:
"Ninja = Sinobinomono. Just a different way to read the kanji "ninja". In Japan, "technique is not what you learn but what you steal" So do not leave any detailed literature. Of course it seems that living a very different life from the ninja believed by Western people."
@@patrichausammann
thanks for your kindness : )
@Hiroyuki K
Thank you! I found it a very good post that was worth translating!
When it is written in some random book it must be true.
You don't know what peer review means.
If you looked up the book instead of pretending to be intelligent you'd delete your comment
Read the Bansenshukai written by grandchildren of Fujibayashi Mamoru Nagato
Please excuse my poor English.
I can't watch LOTR! Hobbits aren't real!
Hobbits aren't real???
@@Linfamy ...well, they're real small.
:D
That reminds me of this hilarious video with Elijah Wood and Robin Williams on the Graham Norton show: ua-cam.com/video/xf1nYEOYx-U/v-deo.html
Mikeztarp thanks for that! Oh Robin Williams... 😂
I have a few questions I've been wanting to ask - do you have Japanese ancestry, and can you read Japanese?
If you do not have Japanese family members, what attracted you to that country and its history?
On a side note: I lolled at the Son Goku period :p
Thanks for asking! Nah, I have no Japanese ancestry (that I know of!), nor can I speak Japanese. I became fascinated with the culture since childhood. Going to blame it on anime.
When I was a kid, anime wasn't a thing. A local public access channel bought the rights to play Robotech and Dragonball, and they showed it on TV at night. It was probably one of the first channels in the US to play an anime series.
That was my first taste and I was hooked for a long time. I eventually grew out of the anime phase, but I still love Japanese culture =)
I started making these history videos because I was trying to look up early Japanese history on UA-cam and couldn't find much.
Hm this post got a bit longer than expected =P
4 years later. Watching this video, I am more convinced they really did exist. They are so good at keeping their trade a secret, we can’t find any trace of their existence. Linfamy nice try, you can’t fool me. 😜
😂
3:11 Mommy, the man said if I went with him he'd give me candy!
:O
The best proof of ninjas is the lack thereof as they are so sneaky that they hid all the sources
Loved it! Thank you!!!
Glad you like it!
The samurai named "Tyler" was that a Heavy Metal reference? If so, good job!
Nope, he's a patron on patreon 😅
@@Linfamy Dang! 😁
:D
So basically you made the criteria to strict?
Perhaps to some. I still agree with the criteria, and maintain that when most people think of ninja, they don't think of a normal spy.
Invicta already ruined Spartans for me, now you gonna ruin Ninjas for me too?
Sorry! But I still like ninjas, you can too 😅
The handsigns were not to literally summon magic forces, they were a meditation technique to enhance those traits natrually in the user
That sounds a little better =)
so there were no ninja, but there were ninja? i was going to recommend Antony Cummins, but...
May the Shinobi's shadow defend your honor My Lord Lin !!!
O.o 😁
"Did you hear that?" - "No." - "Me neither." - "Omg, ninjas!"
Damn I thought there were real ninjas, and that they were just over exaggerated martial artists/assassins.
So did I, actually, until I dug into the research.
@@Linfamy Since when did one book count as research..?
@@NiteF0X Since it's an actually peer reviewed source from centuries of writings rather than woo/folkfore filled garbage?
Me thinking that children of japan will be learning about ninjas in history so cool!!!
As compared to us.
Ok... look up Bansenshukai, buy it, and read it. Look up Yoshie Minami and Antony Cummins. Look up there collective works and extensive research on Shinobi culture.
I've got the Bansenshukai sitting right next to me, and let me tell you, while what you mentioned at the beginning wasn't the norm, there were certain clans of Shinobi at the time, and to this day they are a secretive bunch, though nobody is really trained anymore. In the books, it describes the Shinobi as a specific group of people, real people.
Who are you and what makes your opinion matter?
I wonder if ninja are in the same situation as anime and manga:
Outside of Japan - anime means Japanese animation. Manga means Japanese comic.
In Japan - anime means any animation. Manga just means comic. Japanese would call Disney movies anime and they would say that Marvel makes mangas.
What I'm wondering is, would Japanese call James Bond a ninja.
Knock knock
who's there?
Ninja
Ninja who?
Ninja know it was me?
dat was a horrible joke....just stay on making facts videos xD
The ninja was hired by a samurai. They are spies. Ninja was in Iga City, Mie Prefecture and Koga, Shiga Prefecture. All the residents are ninja. Their lives are not recorded. Because they are ninjas. Ninja who disguised mainly as medicine seller, traveler, entertainer and heard the situation of enemy country. It is their job to report these information to the samurai. Of course, they were also assassinating. The ninja was hired by a samurai and his status was very low.
You just shot down my hopes and dreams on becoming a ninja.
I'm sorry 😞
Only ninja I knew of was the guy name "bushwack" that ninja'd my lv 80 epic neckless from Naxxramas back in 2008... He was kicked and never to be seen again.
The bastard.. I like how you remember that all these years
Mmh...But, if during the Edo Period manuals were written about "ninja" tactics, this means that probably these techniques already existed and were effective (magic apart...), so: have we informations about similarities between ninjutsu techniques reported in the texts and Chinese or maybe Korean spying/killing techniques??
So Turnbull suggests that the "ninja" tactics evolved from tactics in Chinese military texts, which the Japanese were familiar with.
Or they could have evolved from real stories of secret warfare, which happened all the time in the Sengoku even if they weren't performed by ninjas.
I would challenge the idea that the techniques in ninjutsu manuals from the Edo Period were effective though. Edo was a much more peaceful time, there's no evidence that the Japanese took these manuals seriously.
From what I've read up, Ninjutsu was a thing, but it was just a collective set of skills taught to Samurai and other fighting men, they weren't really an organized group or type of warrior. Embellished or not though, a lot of the Edo period Ninjutsu texts usually mention some kind of foreign origin, usually China.
Linfamy Have you watched the documentary Fight Science? If nothing else it seems like the heart stopping punch is real. They tested it on a crash test dummy
Shane Goodson From what I understand, ninjutsu was a thing in the Edo Period, but I don't think it was taken seriously in military operations. It may have been something like a martial arts practiced by people.
animalia555 heart stopping punch is real?? I'd like to learn that, for...reasons.
This is a fine video, but it can be said that there is a certain bias based on mostly the works of Turnbull. It brushes off the Edo period writings and other accounts that it is not reliable, and makes for a case that Ninjas were not real. It is kinda untrue. Since the Ninjutsu later evolved to become a martial art form, it can be argued that the martial art had developed sometimes in the course of history. If it is the case, then these findings only state that the origin of ninjas and modern ninjutsu may not be in the Sengoku period where the situations led to a lot of secret warfare but in the later period starting from Edo.
The idea here is rather opinionated, since if we consider that there were regular soldiers doing some secret or stealth mission, then we have to also accept that there must have been trainings in stealth tactics and warfare because it is not something that you can get right just within a day, and requires a lot of training to not being detected and jeopardizing the missions.
So, even though there may be a normal and mundane origin story to them, like it is supposed to, it does not mean that there were no warriors in those periods of japan doing secret works and stealth missions. If they were there, it is well possible that these trends led to the myths and subsequent ninjutsu.
People today learn Ninjutsu Ffs, and be it sengoku or edo or 1950s that martial art had originated somewhere in that time.
Warring States Period and Warring States Period lol
I got to say it's actually quite an appropriate name for period.
When there's a Warring States Period, you know it'll be exciting.
9:47 , my dudes just gave me nostalgia, lol.