BLOOP would solve 3 problems with 1 stone (so to speak) 1) It would add two new Potomac River crossings and one new Annacostia River crossing, which would be huge for alleviating congestion and adding connectivity, currently there are not enough river crossings. 2) It would add capacity and redundancy in Downtown DC, moving more people there while also mitigating the impact of delays or maintenance on one line that riders currently experience. 3) It would mean more trains to the suburbs in Ashburn, Vienna, Largo, and New Carrollton, that have seen reduced headways since the opening of the Silver Line in 2014 without reducing the capacity of the existing east-west line between Rosslyn and Stadium-Armory (this is an additional benefit stemming from point #2 but worth mentioning on its own). It would also add coverage to National Harbor, MGM casino, Bowling AFB/Annacostia NAS, Buzzard Point, Union Market, and Georgetown while offering new connections to existing lines. Build it.
BLOOP just simply checks off all the boxes of a perfect Metro solution. Georgetown, second Union connection, more Southeast DC service, and National Harbor! I know the video is about the proposals, but man, the stations of the DC Metro are a sight to behold. The flashing lights, the hexagonal floor tiles, the waffles...chef's kiss design. Many Metro stations were designed by Chicago architect Harry Weese, and they not only have aspects of Brutalist design, but also reflect the influence of Washington's neoclassical architecture in their overarching coffered ceiling vaults. Weese worked with lighting designer Bill Lam from Cambridge, MA on the indirect lighting used throughout the system. Here's the Foggy Bottom lore nobody asked for: At the start of the 19th century, there were a couple of prominent residents that lived in the neighborhood, and many skilled laborers. As the city grew and developed, Foggy Bottom’s character was slowly altered. The population increased, and the character of the population changed. The number of industrial establishments increased, particularly along the western and southern edges. The change in population character may have been related to the increased industrial activity. Industries in Foggy Bottom included Godey’s lime kilns, the glass works, and the Abner/Drury and Christian Heurich breweries. It’s unclear when the name Foggy Bottom was adopted, though it’s said the fog from the riverbank combined with the smog from the gas works engendered the name.
As someone who comes to foggy bottom a lot, I appreciate the history facts! It’s a mystery where its unusual name came from. Sounds like a euphemism for somebody who’s had too much taco bell, if you know what I mean…
@@Thom-TRA tbf as a student at GW i just saw it as its literal meaning, as its the bottom of the hills (like the ones at georgetown and capitol hill) that are around dc and during the fall and spring especially it can get foggy during the night and mornings.
The Bloop makes sense especially since it serves Georgetown which needs Metro service, a second connection to Union Station, extra service in southeast DC, and a connection to National Harbor which is home to many events that occur in the convention center and would be easier to get to than the current one way in and out via the beltway…all while looping back into Virginia.
Georgetown will be nice. It’s not extremely far from Foggy Bottom and the buses are good, but still a direct metro connection would be so much better. And I’m very excited about multiple options to Union Station. That station is always so busy.
Georgetown never wanted to be part of Metro. You think it was never discussed? Great idea, but they didn't want "Metro riders" to come through, which is how it always is with these people until they want to be part of a group again.
BLOOP, there it is, Thom! 😂 What an exciting possibility! I was a serious Metrorail commuter during my DC years from 1988-1993 when I lived in DC during my college years (shout out to NoMa-Gallaudet one of the best infill stations on the system 😆) I've always thought that DC needed a loop system, similar to the road's Capital Beltway. It's exciting that this is a thought in someone's mind. I hope it comes to fruitation. Great videos, Thom! I'm glad that you're in DC now. I get to see more about my old city. Keep up the great train videos!
Many people getting off at Franconia-Springfield does make a lot of sense considering it's right off the intersection of I-95 and the Franconia-Springfield Parkway and they probably drove there from the further suburbs. Like, why drive all the way to DC when you can just save on gas and take the Metro! The station is also a major bus terminal for Fairfax Connector buses and intercity buses. And a Metro extension to National Harbor makes a lot of sense as well (the BLOOP in general makes a lot of sense)! National Harbor is home to the Gaylord National Resort & Convention Center which hosts many conventions. While National Harbor has nice walkability, the way to get there is super car-oriented. The only routes in or out of National Harbor are several ramps north of the area that link it to nearby major roadways like Interstate 495/Capital Beltway, Interstate 295/Anacostia Freeway, and Oxon Hill Road. So whenever there's a convention, you can imagine the traffic and overall how much of a headache it has been for those who live in the DMV. There is a water taxi service to National Harbor from Alexandria but that's not enough since it's a water taxi after all. A Metro station at National Harbor is very much needed to not only solve this congestion but also give more people the opportunity to attend a convention there as well as promote more development in the area.
I go to National Harbor about once a year, and yeah getting there can be a pain. It's frustrating how they designed it to explicitly have no other connections, such as to Oxon Hill Rd. For love of transit, I once got there by taking the NH1 bus from Southern Ave. It needs a better connection.
@@sebastianjoseph2828 its even more of a pain for people who live nearby, i have to take the d14 bus from the national harbor to get home and i usually end up waiting 30 minutes to an hour
I do think the Blue Line Loop would be the best option. It wouldn't really do much for me, personally (well, except relieving some crowding on trains), being stuck way out at the NoVa end of Orange, but I think it would be great for the city, the system, and the region. Heck, just connecting to National Harbor would be huge. I'd still love to see the Purple Line actually get finished, as I think that'll help some folks. But I'd love to see it extended, too, perhaps into a loop that essentially follows the Beltway. I often need to go to Silver Spring, and that would be such a big help. At this point, my trip there generally takes two or more hours. More loops. That's what I'm getting at.
A purple line meeting the bloop somewhere would be awesome. Going through Largo. Let’s get the first part opened! I visited construction at U of Md the other day, the tracks are there!
I agree! I think last I heard extending the Purple Line would be hard (something about operators needing to relieve each other every X minutes/hours and Bethesda to New Carollton being the optimal length). But I know Montgomery County was pitching a 24/7 BRT line from Bethesda to Tysons-- LRT across a rebuilt Legion Bridge would be the dream though. I could see an eventual series of LRT lines that form a loop even if they're all separate, covering only major trips instead of the whole circle. Such as a PL1 from Bethesda to New Carollton, a PL2 from Bethesda to Tysons, a PL3 from Tysons to Alexandria via Seven Corners, a PL4 from Alexandria to New Carollton via SE DC, for example. And then there could be stops connecting to metro and more LRT routes connecting into DC and out along streets that aren't served by metro, like Columbia Pike in Nova, Benning Rd in SE, and Riggs Rd, Rt 1, Rt 29 in MD. It even works with the plan to build LRT to Waldorf.
Pro Tip: National Airport is on the blue line, and Franconia Springfield, as mentioned, is the extreme end of the blue line. Every variety of parking at National is almost inevitably always full. You can park for up to ten days in the FP parking deck for the standard one-day fee, five bucks. The signage is minimal, but the area is on the lowest level in row "J".
Somewhat unrelated but imagine if Chicago built an outer loop Lawrence/Cicero/95th - the number of new communities that could be served and the better routing that it could provide (like to MDW & ORD from outer communities).
Look up the “Mid-City Transitway” on Wikipedia. Basically a CTA rail line to utilize an abandoned ROW east of Cicero Ave. From the Montrose Blue Line all the way down to the Orange line’s eventual Ford City terminus.
They put in a proposal for this and did a study…only to file it away and forget it, like so many other good ideas. Too expensive, they said…even as it proved to be very, VERY helpful for transit riders.
Lol I'm glad to see a Chicago comment here. It's incredibly ironic that in a city with a downtown area called "the Loop" there's not a single train line that actually runs in a loop
Geology may ruin the Georgetown station, over burden rocks in the vicinity are hard and thick... it is why there wasn't already a station. New technology may reduce the effort/cost... but I wouldn't be surprised if the BLOOP gets thr green light, this station still maybe last to make if at all
Bloop. I'm old enough to remember when the Purple Line was meant to be a loop, with connectivity to National Harbor there. Perhaps MDOT MTA will consider extending the Purple Line there one day so that one doesn't have to enter DC to reach it via transit. Maybe there will be a joint Metro/Purple Line station there.
The biggest issue not mentioned in the video is operational -- where do trains get back on schedule when they are delayed? That is the reason the London "Circle" line is no longer a circle. My suggestion is to place the "ends" of the line at Huntington and the station on the other side of the Potomac, since they will receive the fewest passengers, and existing roads between these points are unusually time-consuming due to the lack of bridges, so a delay up to 10 minutes won't be unacceptable.
@@Thom-TRA Sure, you "cancel" a late train just like late bus runs are cancelled. But getting them back on schedule is usually the preferred option, so schedules have "padding" built in.
I believe on the Yamanote line, trains are scheduled to hold at Osaki for a few minutes to catch up to any delay that has occurred. They could do a similar thing with the Bloop. I feel like National Harbor would make the best place for a 'catch-up' station with 4 tracks, with the side benefit of allowing trains to begin there during and after major events.
Definitely Bloop. The traffic and bus service from SE DC and that part of Maryland is pretty rough and this would absolutely help solve for the issue. And you could also ask MGM to help subsidize the project or operating costs since it would bring a ton of foot traffic to their casino. If people don't have to worry about driving, maybe they'll gamble a bit later into the evening or drink that extra alcoholic beverage.
I think the Purple Line is a project being overseen by the State of Maryland. I'm not sure how fare policy for the Purple Line will be compatible with the existing WMATA fare scheme.
I'd like to see the purple line extended to reach the silver line somewhere between eastern DC and Largo. It would be a relatively short extension that could be a big help for a lot of people living or working on the eastern side of DC and the Maryland suburbs.
@@Thom-TRA if you're referencing DC, then can you imagine how even worse it would be if those half a million people who ride everyday drove that many extra cars on DC's roads?
BLOOP supporter here. Question for everyone from an amateur-- often you hear that tunneling is a very expensive option compared on on-ground or elevated track. We know the Wilson Bridge was designed to allow metro to go over it. Is there a feasible way to get the line to use this as a cost saving option (while not diminishing service)? How I think it could be done: Have trains pull into Huntington regularly, and then reverse out onto an elevated viaduct that arcs east onto the bridge. That same layout could also be used at National Harbor which is kind of a "cul-de-sac" of development, before going north to Oxon Hill. The issue is that there'd be trains crossing the same track, operators may have to leave the front of the train to get to the "new front" at Huntington, and it would be more confusing to riders. Alternatively: maybe have Huntington be a terminus and have the Bloop arc east from Eisenhower Ave station onto the Wilson Bridge. That way Huntington becomes one of two alternate terminals of the Yellow Line, along with Franconia. Maybe Huntington could one day be extended south a bit to Richmond Hwy or Mt. Vernon. And then the Blue Line would continue east to National Harbor. The bloop could even have an intermediate stop at S. Washington St where it passes over the beltway, providing south Old Town Alexandria and those nearby apartments with another stop. Then again, with the amount of tunneling needing in the city core and Anacostia, perhaps tunneling under the Potomac is no big deal. Perhaps that right of way on the bridge could be better used for a future metro line or a LRT that goes into Alexandria and SE DC and better connects it to PG County at the green line like near Suitland Ave metro or Iverson St. What does everyone think?
The connection would be at Eisenhower, not Huntington and it would go over the Beltway, not a new bridge or tunnel. It's still too expensive but your proposals aren't within the realm of possibility.
Um, actually, my hometown is called Silver Spring (singular) for a reason: just about two blocks northeast from the Metro Station on East-West Highway is Acorn Park: the Site of the Silver Spring. Open to the public, 24/7.
How would this even help with that situation ? What you would need is a circular line around the Beltway or a Bloop line that crosses the Red, Green and Red Lines at places like Van Ness, Petworth or Takoma.
Disclaimer: OPINION HAS BEEN CHANGED, I AM NO LONGER OPPOSING IT. I am for one, not supporting this. While we do need better connections in Georgetown, I don't really want a loop line. While a new tunnel under DC also does sound great, the idea of two Rosslyn stations close by is just a bad idea. However if these does get built, can we just use Rosslyn station instead? As in, the upper level of Rosslyn could be used for counter-clockwise trains and the bottom level could be used for clockwise trains? We need to sort this mess out first if we do end up building it. Why I'm against it? Number 1, I don't really want to see a loop line running like this, Number 2 is the Rosslyn mess, and Number 3 is because there would still be no trains running into the Shirlington areas which should get some better public transport links so the area can be developed more.
Rosslyn would be the same station, just different platforms. Pretty normal for transit systems. What’s wrong with loop lines? They’re so effective and this would make trips shorter for so many people. A line to Shirlington can always be built later, doesn’t mean this shouldn’t be built.
@Thom-TRA I did do some thinking and now I'm just neutral about this. I wouldn't really even use it anyway as I don't go to any of these places often (besides the current sections built) but if this is to be built, we need to answer some questions. Which I could probably give some QUESTIONS 1. Will we just go ahead and build this all at once, or are we building sections? Examples: Rosslyn to National Harbor heading east, Franconia to Navy Yard, we need to work it out 2. Will this line be better run by drivers or just run automatically? We could also just have something like London. 3. Where would the drivers change shifts? 4. Where would the depot be? 5. Should we use the 8000s or should we use a future 9000 series built separately for the Blue Lines? ANSWERS 1a. We could start off with the most needed sections that are actually the purpose of the loop, from Georgetown to National Harbor. If we are making it in phases, that is the best section to make it to. The line would head from Georgetown to Franconia, and then head to National Harbor. THEN we link up the line from National Harbor to Georgetown via DC. 2a. If this is loop line, we could do something like London where the driver is monitoring the train and just opening and closing the doors, or we could just automate it. 3a. Rosslyn is the most reasonable place to have driver changes, where the train wouldn't immediately go out of service, another driver would enter into the cab and take over. During the rush hours if this is manually operated, we could have some trains terminate at King Street and run empty to Alexandria Depot. The same thing would happen in the PM. 4a. Alexandria Depot would be the current one and if we just use a separate depot, National Harbor is the most reasonable place to make it. 5a. No answer because I'll let someone else answer that.
I don’t think that the bloop is the right solution. As currently designed, the bloop does nothing to solve the severe interlining on Metrorail, which creates various operational issues. Additionally, because the bloop goes so far south into PG County and Alexandria, it is limited in its effectiveness as a true circumferential route. Rather than build the bloop, I personally would prefer to see the Blue Line continue all the way under H Street before taking over the existing line to Largo. And then, Metro should also invest in a line up Georgia Avenue to Silver Spring and beyond to White Oak, this line would then connect across the river to the Yellow Line and head down Columbia Pike to Annandale (thereby deinterlining Yellow from Blue and Green). For additional service east of the river, I think this would better be served with a Green Line branch that goes to National Harbor.
As a daily user, I don’t think the interlining is the problem people make it out to be. 3 lines is a lot but if there are only 2 every line, that can actually be a good thing. Vienna doesn’t need the frequency that foggy bottom does, and St. Elizabeth’s doesn’t need the frequency that the pentagon does.
The Bloop reminds me of a recent project that fianlly opened here in Los Angeles, the regional connector has really improved my commute trips as I no longer have to make 2 transfers to get from Long Beach to Pasadena (Blue Line to red line to gold line formerly, now the Blue and Gold Lines merge), it would be exciting for those people in Maryland to be able to get to Virginia or vise versa in one go without so many transfers
A few years back my sister in law was stationed at Bethesda. We were able to stay near her on base and walk to the station near the front gate. We had a lot of fun ridding around the city. Love the stations there.
Bloop woop! This actually sounds like a pretty dang solid proposal! Especially with new weekday trip numbers estimating as high as 180k! Like thats more than any metro line in Copenhagen where I'm from right now, including our downtown loop line, the M3 City Circle that opened 4 years ago
I’m a blue line baby. Early childhood was spent a short walk away from the Van Dorn station then spent my high school years very near to the Franconia station. Part of the line was trenched along the street I lived on (Fleet Rd.). I miss the metro so much. Really took it for granted…
Now, BLOOP, but also a note of caution. Services like the Circle Line of the London Underground and the S41/S42 in Berlin show the inherent problem in loop running. If trains don't have obvious termini where all passengers have to disembark, then it's more hassle to remove trains from service, e.g. when you added some for rush hour service then want to ease back off for daytime service. Or when one develops a fault during service. This was such a hassle in London that the Circle is no longer a circle. Just a cautionary note to bear in mind, but I hope DC Metro will also bear it in mind if they go for BLOOP. Cheers, Chris
The Yamanote line in Tokyo has two stations near yards where they terminate if needed (Osaki and Otsuka). About halfway through the loop they’ll switch to saying they’ll terminate.
@@Thom-TRA it would make sense to add a yard on the southern end Maryland side. Then have a station there act as a quasi-terminus for both directions, perhaps have a balloon loop for one of the directions to lead back into the yard. Just spitballing, pretty sure there are some holes in that idea.
BLOOP Aren't loop systems more resilient to service interruptions? If clockwise tracks fail, you just hop on the counter-clockwise train and circumnavigate.
they should consider connecting the outer ends of the Red Line in a loop too, it's so annoying having to go all the way through DC just to get from Silver Spring to Rockville by Metro.
BLOOP! Although I would actually like to see a slightly altered plan. Rather than letting the Blue line take over the Huntington branch of the Yellow line after coming back across the Potomac, i'd construct the tunnel to end slightly further to the North, and build a new terminus at King St - Old Town. The Yellow Line would continue to run to Huntington, the Blue line would run from Franconia - Springfield to King St - Old Town and throught to Rosslyn as it does now, from there run on the new 'BLOOP' tracks, which would terminate at the new terminus at King St - Old Town (different platforms, ofc). That way, you create something similar to the current Circle line in London. The reason the Circle line came to be the way it is now, is that a circular metro route is very difficult to operate, even more so when there is interlining, which is the case for both the Circle line and the future BLOOP. So I think it would be wise to learn from London rather than copy its mistake.
I don’t think the difficulty to operate is inherent to loops, I think the circle line is a difficult case. Many many branches interlining with each other. There are plenty of global examples worldwide of loop lines that do work great. Even the Osaka loop line in Japan, which has a ton of interlining. What’s important is to have points where trains can enter and leave the loop.
How would you do the signage and verbiage so as to not confuse people ? Imagine how it is now at stations like Metro Center, Gallery Place, L'enfant Plaza or Fort Totten transfer point to the so and so line. With your suggestion you could be on a Blue Line and being told this is a transfer point to the Blue Line.
The only hesitation I have is making sure they have the funding to properly operate the extension. They need to solve their current operations shortfall, and not just with a bandaid, temporary, kick the can down the road sorta fix, before they add additional tracks that will increase operation costs even more. If they can't afford to run trains on it on a high frequency, they shouldn't build it.
The BLOOP is ultimately the best solution, but I don't think WMATA will do that all at once. Building the second tunnel will be expensive and they'll move one of the lines over to that first. Then, depending on how that works out, they'll move the Blue line to it and extend the line south on the east side of the river. Finally, assuming the almost BLue Line Loop works out well, they will build the tunnel under the Potomac and complete the BLOOP. Overall, three distinct phases, each 5 or 10 years apart, so we're talking 20-30 years until the BLOOP becomes a reality.
I disagree. I don't think bloop is a good idea. I'm a local who frequently takes the orange line so I feel like I have a say. 1. Bloop is way too expensive. $30B is a lot. And usually I'm not someone who advocates, "let's have more connectivity with busses rather than train" cuz i don't think they serve the same functions, I think Metrobus seriously needs better connectivity, service, and speed boosts. We can easily double bus ridership with that kind of funding 2. You can fix "overcrowding" with CBTC and ATO. That would allow Metro to run about 30 - 33 tph in the Rosslyn tunnel, which would mean 5 - 6 min headways on each line, which would be enough for the foreseeable future, which is desperately needed for Tysons. 3. Very few journeys are being done from the blue line corridor to the Maryland shore of the Potomac. There is just not a lot there and most people are traveling to points further east in Maryland, which Metro doesn't have connectivity to anyways. 4. Bloop travels way too closely to the original alignment within downtown. DC lacks any sort of Metro east-west connection north of the original blue/orange/silver line alignment, and there's A LOT of dense development up north. We should build something more north, preferably around the U St corridor. Taking the bus between the Wisconsin Ave corridor, red, and green lines east-west just sucks right now. There
I’m all for an East west corridor further north. But your other points run aren’t as solid. And this is coming from someone living in downtown DC with multiple contacts at WMATA and the city. A second tunnel isn’t just for higher frequency (which will be way higher when it’s just two lines than three), it’s also redundancy which is good in case of emergencies. The capacity issue is the crossing under the Potomac. That has a max of 26 tph. No amount of improving ATO (which they’re literally working on) will be able to improve that. There is demand for service on that side of the river. It’s a fast-growing area and people really do travel in both directions. The NH2 is quite a busy route.
I CONCUR BLOOP!!! National Harbor is a new destination for many MD/DC/VA visitors. Plus service to the military bases on the east side of the Potomac allowing cross base military traffic between Pentagon and these HQ facilities. Perfect. BLOOP all the way.Oh and the expansion of service for the many military travelers to from Union station and shorter transfer to both Reagan and Dulles for TDY, or PCS? God send. #BLOOPisbest
@@Thom-TRA If money from Congress is used including military is always a help. That's how the interstate highway bill got passed in the 1950's - for anti-infrastructure right wingers including a military aspect got them onboard - officially the "Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways." And the reduction in CO2(except from all that concrete curing initially!,), pollution and traffic is an obvious selling point for the reality based crowd.
i want all of them! and i have a new line proposal! its called the centeral line and starts at National Defense U and ends at Truxton Circle! making stops at: Nationals park,navy yard,garfield park,capitol south,U.S capitol,judiciary sq,union station and sursum corda! this line will help traffic get from north to south of central downtown dc!
I lived in DC two different times and they were so different due to general access to the metro. The first time was in Ballston and I had a station one block away from my room and a station at my office. The second time it was at Bolling AFB and it was over two miles walk to the station in Anacostia.
I like the Bloop idea. I use much of the system to go various places, but I most frequently use the Orange Line from New Carrollton. I visit Georgetown often and walk from Foggy Bottom. A stop in the heart of Georgetown on any line would be great!
I grew up in DC in the late 90s and early 2000s and they needed a loop even then! They really need to get cracking on an outer loop train all the way around, too, but I understand that's in contentious works rn. The sounds and sights of this video brought me back to the stations. I can even smell them in my memory!
My idea: Build the bloop in two (or 3) phases. Phase one being Rosslyn to Union Station, and for the time being having a connection to the red line to run trains to greenbelt via the old fort totten connection. Phase 2 would extend the blue through National Harbor and complete the loop (if funds run short, they can even complete the loop later by pushing off the river tubes to a phase 3)
The Woodrow Wilson Bridge that takes I-495/I-95 across the Potomac River between Alexandria and Maryland was built with lanes for mass transit trains. That significantly reduces the cost of BLOOP.
A blue line loop would be such a waste of money and resources. I don't think people really realize just how little stuff there is in that part of SE DC.
@Thom-TRA SE DC already has the Green Line, which covers the area very well. The area between the Green Line and the Potomac doesn't have much room to expand because there's a massive military base and I-295. There is so much more room to expand in PG County, where the other proposals are located. Extending the Blue line through to Greenbelt or New Carrollton could create much more development than another Line in SE DC. And a water crossing from Alexandria to SE DC would be such a waste of money that could be used for additional water crossings into Downtown DC from Arlington.
@Thom-TRA I am an Arlington native studying urban planning. I have studied greater DC at length and have volunteered for urban planning groups in SE DC. There are only really three neighborhoods between the Green Line and I-295 in SE DC, and two of them are already served by the Green line. SE DC could really use more transit, but it should be NE of the Green Line and not SW of it. And yes, I do prefer more metro lines into DC rather than circumferential lines connecting suburbs. The Metro's main purpose is connecting localities within DC, and its secondary purpose is connecting DC to the suburbs. Circumferential trips aren't nearly as common for us locals, so such trips should be made by lower tier transit like BRT or low-floor trams like the previously mentioned Purple Line.
@Thom-TRA Yeah. While I disagree with the bloop, it certainly is much cooler than many of WMATAs weird ideas over the years. I appreciate you coming to DC for another video, and I look forward to more good transit coverage 👍
Sending the Silver Line through Rosslyn without upgrading the station was bad planning. Rosslyn was insanely busy BEFORE the Silver Line. I lived there, work was a few blocks from Rosslyn station, when they started building the Silver Line. I remember talks of sending the silver line through a new tunnel into Georgetown back then but I guess there wasn't enough support from the public at large. Your idea of the BLOOP is very logical growth for the whole system. Love it.
Definitely an interesting idea! And from my knowledge, this would almost be a transit line of its own kind. Now I do know that especially around the world, many cities with 'major' transit networks have 'orbital' routes. But they are really 'orbital' in that they 'orbit' around the 'core' or 'center' of the network (which usually is the 'center' of the city these systems serve). And it's even more common for larger cities to have parallel lines that go through sections of the 'city/regional center' (as those 'centers' are usually larger as a result) and intersect each other in a network of nodes. But the BLOOP idea seems to be a combination of both: the section between Rosslyn in Arlington, VA (or even from national landing/Regan airport area really) & Union Station is still fairly 'centrally located', while the section across the Potomac b/w NH & Huntingdon is more 'orbital' (they literally are outside of the 'Beltway'), with 2 radial sections closing the 'loop'. I feel like this setup is gonna be rare. But I say let's do it! And speaking of 'orbital' lines & the idea of 'going b/w MD & VA without going into central DC, I do believe another important solution is to finish the purple line, and extend it to VA. (Although I got to say I feel a little pity that they chose to build a light rail instead). Especially, it should extend from the currently planned terminus at Bethesda to Tysons/Vienna area. (Or as I sometimes say, the '9-12' section of the Beltway, from Tysons to Silver Spring, as the traffic of this section is among THE CRAZIEST I've ever seen).
When the Metro opened, the yellow line was designated as the route to what is now Franconia/Springfield. There were actually two short branches in the plans, which where shelved to create the existing Franconia/Springfield station.
Something they didn’t mention is that the bloop could help prevent crowding after sporting events at navy yard and if mci center is replaced by a stadium in Arlington.
Franc-Spring was my jam years ago while living in Woodbridge. Especially since I travelled a lot! Franc-Spring has long term parking! 15-20 mins to National and I am on my way. Best station ever!
the bloop is fine but I voted for the silver line to new carrollton option because it adds a bunch of spots in northeast which feels like a real up and coming part of the city. Atleast for me as someone living in ballston, getting better metro access to northeast feels more exciting than getting better metro access to southeast
Love Yamamoto line in tokyo it was my go to when i was a student in japan…it goes through takaba, shinjuku, shibuya, shin_okubo koreatown. Bloop makes sense cost effective.
I like that the 7000 series have the automated announced connection is available to the Virginia Railway Express as the train operators don't announce that on the older cars
London un-looped their famous Circle Line some years back and turned it into more of a spiral, with an endpoint, because they found that this was better for managing capacity--it made it easier to take trains on and off the line. But the Circle Line is entirely in the dense urban center of London--I don't think this would be a problem with a BLOOP that goes out into the suburbs; you could actually have a siding with a train shed somewhere, and you could have some minority of trains do a reduced service that has an ending at that point. Singapore has a "Circle Line" that is not yet a circle, with plans to close it up between Harbourfront and Marina Bay sometime next year. I remember feeling that gap keenly when I visited the place.
it should have been an original plan to begin with. Think about it: Many PG County folk work in VA. Why should it take over 30 minutes and switching trains when a river is the only thing separating it? Building a loop makes going back and forth easy and I also believe it would ease Wilson Bridge traffic.
Agree a circle line is a good idea. Wish there were more thought about where it could go within the city of DC. Nowhere should be more than a 10 min walk from a metro station, yet several pockets like Adams Morgan, Georgetown, Logan Circle, or many places east of the river, do not meet that criteria. It would require more tunneling perhaps, but the proposed loop would require new tunnels anyway. Mostly just want them to get started on it. Also, I’m not sure “bloop” is great branding…if there is ever an issue or delay or anything it would immediately be turned around. 🤷♂️
I like the BLOOP idea the best too. Waste Management NYC trash train at 10:30. In the summer watching trains from Long Bridge park those trains can really hum headed south!
I mean I kinda like the fact 3 lines are on one segment but I understand sort of that one line could lead to all 3 even if it isn’t actually affecting the other 2 directly. If I had to choose, loop prolly makes the most sense but I wonder why they aren’t considering doing a U shape like the Red if they are that desperate for a national harbor stop? Like if they did a loop would trains continue using both tracks or only one direction?
Both directions. Loop lines are common around the world. And a loop makes way more sense than a U shape since people can always take the shortest trip between destinations.
@@Thom-TRA yah u absolutely right I was just sorta thinking at the red line a little bit and how not many that ride that particular line seem to have an issue with it
@@Thom-TRA very true. I was kinda thinking ab the current red line i guess lol cause both ends are in Montgomery County near each other driving distance. If there is a loop instead of a U, I wonder what would the destination signs say like what would be considered the first and last stop?
BLOOP! My cousin who currently lives in DC messaged me about this project a few days ago. I immediately thought of you and it’s funny that you made a video four days later. We both agree with your assessment that #BLOOPisbest.
Imagine this: A one seat ride between Union Station, Capitol-South, National Harbor, National, the Pentagon, Rosslyn, Georgetown, and Farragut. All in a single seat trip. In a loop. Watch them choose the turnback plan, I would cry.
You could also just remove the H/Benning Streetcar and send Silver Line trains from a new tunnel at Stadium-Armory to Rosslyn II. It would connect Union station to Largo (directly or maybe Silver Line short turns at Stadium-Armory like was originally planned), which would provide more options to get to Union Station East-West. I also made my old idea for the Bloop go a bit further North and East with a Pink line serving the west ends-with Oxen Hill being a transfer point where Blue would continue to National Harbor towards Alexandria
Also Blue is 100% de-interlined with transfers at King St-Old Town (Blue would be underground), Pentagon City (cross-platform), Rosslyn (likely cross-platform), Georgetown [Pink], Dupont Circle, U St-Cardozo, Brookland-CUA, Minnesota Av, Benning Rd, and Naylor Rd, and Oxen Hill [Pink]
Interestingly, the Blue Line originally was going to go to Huntington with Yellow going to Springfield (Franconia and Springfield were to be separate stops) so the “BLOOP” would restore the original alignment for Blue and Yellow in Fairfax County. The big issue here is the cost and extensive underground tunneling needed to build a new line under the Potomac and through DC from G’town to Union Station and beyond. The original work in the 1970s was difficult and made for a real mess with streets and other spaces laid open to relocate utilities and build the tunnels. In high density downtown areas, the impacts can’t be overstated. Where you can build above ground, such as the connection on the eastern bank of the Potomac down past St E’s and Oxon Hill, that would be much easier and somewhat cheaper to do, but let’s be honest. Look at the Purple Line debacle. It’s still not open, not even a portion of it, and it’s been “under construction” for years now. I think this idea, while really appealing, is dead on arrival. Plus, fares would need to be raised dramatically to reflect what Metro truly is-a commuter rail connecting suburbs with downtown DC. Metro is not an intracity subway. More than half of the stations are outside of the city limits: 18 in MD, 32 in VA, 40 in DC. But we can dream.
I think this is a pessimistic take. It fulfills both roles. I for one almost exclusively use it as an intracity metro, and it serves me quite well in that capacity. But I like that it also extends to the suburbs, so those people don’t have to drive into the city or use the lackluster commuter rail.
Without retrocession, many of those VA stations would be in the "city" so jurisdiction is not a good distinction for DC or any other metro area. It is obviously relevant for support, approval, and funding, but not necessarily useful for system classification.
@@jyutzler I look at the map of the city I live in almost every day. The southern end of the line wouldn’t run through the densest part of DC, but it’s denser than some areas the metro already serves. And it’s mostly low-income, backed up by the large number of bus routes that serve the area. It’s time to correct the adverse effects of the (monstrously expensive) highway that runs through there.
BLOOP! As an Arlington resident it’s the clear winner for me in terms of connectivity. Better connections to intercity trains at Union Station. More capacity for dealing with crowds at Nats Park and Audi Field with a Buzzard Point station. Some overdue transit improvements for SE DC East of the Anacostia. One thing you didn’t mention about the silver line express is that Metro’s proposal involved boring deep tunnel lines from outside the Beltway, through Falls Church and Arlington, to the new Rosslyn Tunnel. All that cost to get a suburban express line is really hard to justify. Still, i hope it’s the genesis of a Crossrail/RER type arrangement where we have new deep tunnel Metros that go express across the region to link up the airports and intercity train stations.
There were Extension lines to current lines. I got to see this from my Uncle who was secondary engineer (as a designer) for the Red Line, as a kid in the early 70's. The loop line wouldn't surprise me.
BLOOP! I actually love the plan a lot and think it is by far the best option and would add ridership and provide much needed relief. The only thing that bothers me a little about it is the complete reuse of VA stations. I would almost rather the loop expand west a bit or something new that could add capacity and ridership from new stations. It seems like all of the new stations would be MD and DC, and I just wish that there could've been something like National Harbor -> King's Street, then go west to new locations in Arlington and Fairfax that are not currently served. I really love the plan overall, I just think that could've been something they considered. But at the same time, my guess is the price was already so high that they had to choose what they could. Maybe in the future they could consider that.
I like the idea of the BLOOP but living near the end of the silver line and having over an hour commute daily each way is why I'm for the express silver line. I waited over 30 years for the silver line and it was initially supposed to be part of the original metro system plan in the 60s. The 4 stops in the Tyson's/McLean area slows the trip a lot which makes an express train important to the western silver liners. It'd be nice if they could do both enhancements. People that fly from Dulles airport would benefit for a quicker trip there. But I understand why BLOOP would be great.
While a line to Ivy City and Union Market would be nice, the loop to National Harbor makes more sense because PG County, MD has higher density that will improve Metro’s long term revenue. More diverse communities will also benefit from being connected to rapid transit so it’s also the best fair, equitable option.
I appreciate the insight! I’m doing my best to try to get to know this city. I’ve wondered if a red line branch could work to serve the other neighborhoods.
@@Thom-TRA Ofc it isn't, but a transit system that serves lots of low density neighborhoods is bound to get very low ridership ... like Metrorail. Serving the places and corridors with high job and population density must be a major concern to transit planners.
I dove into the comments before adding mine. I live in Greenbelt and am all for the BLOOP. In Old Greenbelt where I live, we have excellent Metrobus service that in one direction takes us to Greenbelt Station -- the terminus of the Green Line -- and in the other direction takes us to New Carrollton Station -- the terminus of the Orange Line. With the Purple Line run by the State of Maryland connecting three lines (Orange with New Carrollton, Green with College Park, Red with Silver Spring, and Red again with Bethesda), we have an excellent bypass around DC, though it will be slow going as it is light rail. I am all for the BLOOP for several reasons: access to Georgetown/West End, relief to BOTH Rosslyn and Union Station as choke points, and access to National Harbor. With regard to National Harbor, the real question is where such a station to be, as there are in fact three (3) National Harbors: the Tanger Outlet, the MGM Casino, and the Tourist Trap where they regrettably moved The Awakening from Haines Point. Tanger and MGM have free parking. The Tourist Trap has zero free parking and could use Metro more than either Tanger or MGM. However, MGM would likely be the desired terminus AND there is a free shuttle from MGM to the Tourist Trap part of National Harbor. The conundrum that I didn't see anyone talk about: NIMBY: Not In My Back Yard. One Chevy Chase Country Club is what set back the Purple Line like forever. I am not so worried about the part in MD as I am about the northern end between Georgetown and Union Station. DC is a litigious city already; the BLOOP could bring out all the lawyers...and psychiatrists to deal with all the NIMBYs! Still, I am all for the BLOOP. I just hope that the NIMBYs can take a chill pill and see the bigger picture: a more cohesive and connected DC Metro Area.
The purple line is from Bethesda to New Carrollton. I think the extension around the beltline was more of a fantasy map than an actual plan because it is exclusively a Maryland project.
As someone in suburban car dependent Annandale, I think the next expansion after the blue line should be a very *expensive* revivial of the Columbia Pike metro stop, we need to expand in underserved communities and more infill areas in nova.
I know the pike was supposed to receive light rail and got the lackluster Pike Ride instead. Breathing new life into the metro would be the best option. But can VA have the leadership needed to see it through?
@@Thom-TRA I hope so there was some surprising bills introduced this session that was going to legalize mixed use housing on strip malls by a fairly moderate senator. The Dillion rule sadly makes localities dependent on the state to fund the metro funding or large scale projects with funding. I am hoping the next dem trifecta works towards a dedicated funding stream for WMATA. I believe in 2020 there was a study for the pike not sure if it went through or not. Youngkin said he was a YIMBY but hasn’t worked with the legislature yet on a ADU bill that actually got a few Republican senators and a Loudoun dem actually opposed (who also got the largest amount of money in the supply subsequently, 2 million), that’s getting shelved until next year. I think Spanberger is all but guaranteed to become governor I just hope it gets prioritized enough
Growing up in PG County, I remember when the National Harbor was nothing but trees. The third tunnel at Rosslyn is needed and Georgetown is long overdue for a station. With that said, I'd be all for BLOOP idea. Currently the tail tracks at Huntington are underground so you have a foundation to continue tunneling under the Potomac River and towards the National Harbor, which could use a station in my opinion along with the stops in DC/Maryland around Bolling AFB, etc. BLOOP would also provide an additional option for crossing the 495 Woodrow Wilson Bridge which is always a pain to cross especially during rush hour.
Apparently the Wilson Bridge was designed with a median wide enough for a metro line. That said putting metro on a drawbridge would be a unique first... but I wonder if it'd be better to do that than the cost of tunneling under the river?
@@sebastianjoseph2828 Interesting comment regarding the drawbridge. Only issue would be the delays that would inevitably come up when the drawbridge has to activate plus the signaling, operation cost, etc. Tunneling may the be more expensive option but it would be straightforward.
@@JerrellWoolford Yeah the more I think about it, extensive tunnel would be needed in the DC core and under the Anacostia anyway. Almost certainly in SE DC too. So the added cost of a tunnel under the Potomac might be well worth it. The Wilson Bridge rarely opens- 60 times a year or so. But that's still enough to ruin train timetables. The Wilson Bridge might be better off serving a hypothetical future light rail.
We need this!! Just moved here and the BLOOP would genuinely make my commute feasible by metro, because I don't get metro service near my job in Georgetown
The Bloop plan needs just one change: having Silver end in New Carrollton and Orange end at Largo. This way, the Silver Line directly attaches to Amtrak & MARC service, and it creates the possibility for if/when Metro were to expand to BWI that there would be one continuous international airport to international airport train service.
@@jyutzler Alexandria was already served by rail. Why build a metro there? Or perhaps people with more insight realize that such a corridor serves a growing region currently plagued by sub-par transit connections. Your cynicism on this page is not welcome, nor is it rooted in much substance beyond populist perceptions of reality.
@@Thom-TRAit does, plus if you live in Damascus it's an hour plus bus ride(that only shows up every half hour) to even get to the nearest train station. Metro to somewhere like Germantown and Gaithersburg would be ridiculously helpful for those living in northern Montgomery County
So, on the current system, if you're going from Franconia-Springfield to Downtown Largo, is it faster to stay on the Blue line, or transfer to the Yellow between King and Pentagon and back to the Blue at L'Enfant Plaza? And you make a good case for BLOOP.
I currently live in Oxon Hill, driving wise I can get to the national mall in 15-20 mins. Technically it's a great location because we are so close to the DC and we have the beltway, but it is soooo soo driving dependant. Unlike Alexandria, we have no train lines that pass by here and if I didn't have a car it would take me an hour or two to take multiple buses and finally hop on a line to get anywhere DC central. I think it just makes total sense, there are so much traffic here in the morning of people communicating into DC, the National harbor has been expanding and growing even more as a spot to see/visit on the Maryland side, and the community here just doesn't have access like it does In NOVA (Northern Virginia). I hope Oxon Hill can be a part of the train line system within the next decade and the community grow because of it.
I think Metro's biggest need is to connect the Yellow/Blue lines near the Wilson Bridge to P.G. County. Why? All of the Pentagon workers could bus or drive to an Oxon Hill station, cross the Wilson and depart at Reagan Airport, Pentagon, etc. Better than them driving thru D.C., over the 14th Street Bridge to the Pentagon.
Seeing cars with Maryland plates crossing the 14th street Bridge from the Pentagon into D.C. and into P.G. County has to be the commute from hell. A congested bridge and then congested freeways. Not an easy trip!!
I don’t know if anyone else has mentioned this, but less than an hour after the air Florida plane crashed into the 14th Street Bridge over the Potomac River in January 1982, metro rail had its first fatal crash when an orange line train derailed in the tunnel between federal triangle and Smithsonian stations. Thankfully it didn’t happen in the tunnel under the Potomac River. It was also snowing that day which contributed to the plane crash. In the years since, metro usually limits its train service to just the underground sections during snow storms. So if a train were to crash so badly in the tunnel under the river that the tunnel is shut down, then the only other current metro line from dc to Virginia is the yellow line bridge over the Potomac. That bridge wasn’t built (or at least not completed) yet when the plane crashed into the 14th Street bridge. But imagine if it had and if it too was hit. Both means of getting commuters from dc to Virginia via metro rail would be out of commission, forcing all of them to take to the snowy streets during a snowstorm while one of the main road bridges was also closed due to a major plane crash! Now think of the the September 11th terrorist attacks and the plane that crashed into the pentagon. The pentagon is also where the blue and yellow lines meet in Virginia. Having a metro rail line that loops and provides two new tunnel crossings under the Potomac River would be very vital to moving commuters during tragic events while possibly bypassing the events themselves. It would also incentivize more commuters to get off the traffic jammed beltway by giving them a way to ride metro rail from Alexandria to national harbor and connect to the green line wiper having to go through dc.
One thing you didn't mention is that some of the tunnels aren't really tunnels. The Green Line between Anacostia and Navy Yard is in a tube at the bottom of the Anacostia River its not a tunnel that was done with a boring machine and covered in concrete; if a crash was to happen there you have the possibility of damaging the tube and flooding the system with water. Second we dont need all the tunnels or tubes in the same general area like how most of the bridges crossing the Potomac are within about 2 and a half miles from each other ? We should have a bridge between the Chain Bridge and the Key Bridge and another two between the George Mason Bridge and the Woodrow Wilson Bridge and atleast two more between the Wilson and Harry Nice Bridge. There are more bridges crossing the Anacostia River than the Potomac River.
I'm not American so I don't know the details but I'm curious about this, so if you or any DC resident know about it would be great to hear from your opinions. How long do you think will take to build this loop after they decide on it? I heard the IBX in NYC will take many years due to their bureaucracy or something but I also heard that DC metro has the best quality in USA so what do you think? Do you think DC also gonna take years of bureaucracy to build it as well?
I’ll accept the bloop however , with the bloop add a new line between rosslyn II and Franconia Springfield since blue line will still be interlining the new line still will have Empty is gaps
What I think would be most impactful is having a loop around the beltway, and one around the second beltway (286). I do like the BLOOP though, more loops are better.
BLOOP is the clear way to go. I’m glad Mr. Randy acknowledges that if you get too scared to invest in the future infrastructure then you just set yourself back. I know plenty of people that would love to get to National harbor, MGM, and especially Georgetown without driving a car there. That Rosslyn station is in dire need of relief.
BLOOP isn't a terrible idea. If you want to infill or insert stations along the already existent route, fine. There should be a line along the Capital Beltway - the Violent Line or something like that. They insist that the Purple Line isn't part of Metro, though MTA wants to make sure there are interchanges at some major Metro stops....so maybe to avoid confusion, there wouldn't be a Violet Line....but some other color. That would connect the Blue and Yellow terminating stops to added National Harbor and Oxon Hill stops. To me, it doesn't make sense to have three lines terminate in Largo. I wouldn't be against the Blue Line turning South at Benning Road, Fort Dupont, Pennsylvania Ave East, Anacostia, Bolling, Blue Plains, Forest Heights, and National Harbor. St. Elizabeth is already served by Congress Heights on the Green Line.
I was hoping to hear my voice somewhere along the way in your video (I'm a train operator). Disappointed but not surprised that I didn't hear myself. Ah, well...
BLOOP all the way. As a current blue line user, I see this as an absolute win. The National Harbor would be way easier to access and more connections to the green line is also convenient.
BLOOP would solve 3 problems with 1 stone (so to speak)
1) It would add two new Potomac River crossings and one new Annacostia River crossing, which would be huge for alleviating congestion and adding connectivity, currently there are not enough river crossings.
2) It would add capacity and redundancy in Downtown DC, moving more people there while also mitigating the impact of delays or maintenance on one line that riders currently experience.
3) It would mean more trains to the suburbs in Ashburn, Vienna, Largo, and New Carrollton, that have seen reduced headways since the opening of the Silver Line in 2014 without reducing the capacity of the existing east-west line between Rosslyn and Stadium-Armory (this is an additional benefit stemming from point #2 but worth mentioning on its own).
It would also add coverage to National Harbor, MGM casino, Bowling AFB/Annacostia NAS, Buzzard Point, Union Market, and Georgetown while offering new connections to existing lines.
Build it.
This is a great overview of all the benefits!
@@US_States_Sprunki5293 stop showing everyone how dumb you are
Build the bloop
it would also let orange line get an extension which it needs because of right now too much too much pressure on rosslyn to foggy bottom
And alleviate crowding at navy yard
BLOOP just simply checks off all the boxes of a perfect Metro solution. Georgetown, second Union connection, more Southeast DC service, and National Harbor! I know the video is about the proposals, but man, the stations of the DC Metro are a sight to behold. The flashing lights, the hexagonal floor tiles, the waffles...chef's kiss design. Many Metro stations were designed by Chicago architect Harry Weese, and they not only have aspects of Brutalist design, but also reflect the influence of Washington's neoclassical architecture in their overarching coffered ceiling vaults. Weese worked with lighting designer Bill Lam from Cambridge, MA on the indirect lighting used throughout the system.
Here's the Foggy Bottom lore nobody asked for: At the start of the 19th century, there were a couple of prominent residents that lived in the neighborhood, and many skilled laborers. As the city grew and developed, Foggy Bottom’s character was slowly altered. The population increased, and the character of the population changed. The number of industrial establishments increased, particularly along the western and southern edges. The change in population character may have been related to the increased industrial activity. Industries in Foggy Bottom included Godey’s lime kilns, the glass works, and the Abner/Drury and Christian Heurich breweries. It’s unclear when the name Foggy Bottom was adopted, though it’s said the fog from the riverbank combined with the smog from the gas works engendered the name.
As someone who comes to foggy bottom a lot, I appreciate the history facts! It’s a mystery where its unusual name came from. Sounds like a euphemism for somebody who’s had too much taco bell, if you know what I mean…
@@Thom-TRA tbf as a student at GW i just saw it as its literal meaning, as its the bottom of the hills (like the ones at georgetown and capitol hill) that are around dc and during the fall and spring especially it can get foggy during the night and mornings.
The Bloop makes sense especially since it serves Georgetown which needs Metro service, a second connection to Union Station, extra service in southeast DC, and a connection to National Harbor which is home to many events that occur in the convention center and would be easier to get to than the current one way in and out via the beltway…all while looping back into Virginia.
Georgetown will be nice. It’s not extremely far from Foggy Bottom and the buses are good, but still a direct metro connection would be so much better.
And I’m very excited about multiple options to Union Station. That station is always so busy.
It would need to be accommodated by a Pink Line service between Rosslyn and Franconia via Union Station.
Interesting
Georgetown never wanted to be part of Metro. You think it was never discussed? Great idea, but they didn't want "Metro riders" to come through, which is how it always is with these people until they want to be part of a group again.
@@Iloveswedes Maybe attitudes are changing.
We need the BLOOP
BLOOP
I love that😂😂😂 BLOOP
That is the most elite name for a subway line that has ever existed
I wouldn't built the Bloop. I would build instead the Columbia Pike Metro towards George Mason University.
12:10 12:10 @@theconceptualist8626 How about Bloopy McBloopface?😁
BLOOP, there it is, Thom! 😂
What an exciting possibility! I was a serious Metrorail commuter during my DC years from 1988-1993 when I lived in DC during my college years (shout out to NoMa-Gallaudet one of the best infill stations on the system 😆)
I've always thought that DC needed a loop system, similar to the road's Capital Beltway.
It's exciting that this is a thought in someone's mind.
I hope it comes to fruitation. Great videos, Thom! I'm glad that you're in DC now. I get to see more about my old city.
Keep up the great train videos!
I hope you enjoy the videos down memory lane! Let us know if you’re ever in town
Many people getting off at Franconia-Springfield does make a lot of sense considering it's right off the intersection of I-95 and the Franconia-Springfield Parkway and they probably drove there from the further suburbs. Like, why drive all the way to DC when you can just save on gas and take the Metro! The station is also a major bus terminal for Fairfax Connector buses and intercity buses. And a Metro extension to National Harbor makes a lot of sense as well (the BLOOP in general makes a lot of sense)! National Harbor is home to the Gaylord National Resort & Convention Center which hosts many conventions. While National Harbor has nice walkability, the way to get there is super car-oriented.
The only routes in or out of National Harbor are several ramps north of the area that link it to nearby major roadways like Interstate 495/Capital Beltway, Interstate 295/Anacostia Freeway, and Oxon Hill Road. So whenever there's a convention, you can imagine the traffic and overall how much of a headache it has been for those who live in the DMV. There is a water taxi service to National Harbor from Alexandria but that's not enough since it's a water taxi after all. A Metro station at National Harbor is very much needed to not only solve this congestion but also give more people the opportunity to attend a convention there as well as promote more development in the area.
I go to National Harbor about once a year, and yeah getting there can be a pain. It's frustrating how they designed it to explicitly have no other connections, such as to Oxon Hill Rd. For love of transit, I once got there by taking the NH1 bus from Southern Ave. It needs a better connection.
@@sebastianjoseph2828 its even more of a pain for people who live nearby, i have to take the d14 bus from the national harbor to get home and i usually end up waiting 30 minutes to an hour
BLOOP for an equitable future for SE DC!
@@virginiansupremacy the D14 doesnt even go to National Harbor so how did you get that bus from there ?
@@Kev4Kev it goes to the park and ride near it
I do think the Blue Line Loop would be the best option. It wouldn't really do much for me, personally (well, except relieving some crowding on trains), being stuck way out at the NoVa end of Orange, but I think it would be great for the city, the system, and the region. Heck, just connecting to National Harbor would be huge. I'd still love to see the Purple Line actually get finished, as I think that'll help some folks. But I'd love to see it extended, too, perhaps into a loop that essentially follows the Beltway. I often need to go to Silver Spring, and that would be such a big help. At this point, my trip there generally takes two or more hours.
More loops. That's what I'm getting at.
A purple line meeting the bloop somewhere would be awesome. Going through Largo. Let’s get the first part opened! I visited construction at U of Md the other day, the tracks are there!
I agree! I think last I heard extending the Purple Line would be hard (something about operators needing to relieve each other every X minutes/hours and Bethesda to New Carollton being the optimal length). But I know Montgomery County was pitching a 24/7 BRT line from Bethesda to Tysons-- LRT across a rebuilt Legion Bridge would be the dream though. I could see an eventual series of LRT lines that form a loop even if they're all separate, covering only major trips instead of the whole circle. Such as a PL1 from Bethesda to New Carollton, a PL2 from Bethesda to Tysons, a PL3 from Tysons to Alexandria via Seven Corners, a PL4 from Alexandria to New Carollton via SE DC, for example. And then there could be stops connecting to metro and more LRT routes connecting into DC and out along streets that aren't served by metro, like Columbia Pike in Nova, Benning Rd in SE, and Riggs Rd, Rt 1, Rt 29 in MD. It even works with the plan to build LRT to Waldorf.
Pro Tip: National Airport is on the blue line, and Franconia Springfield, as mentioned, is the extreme end of the blue line. Every variety of parking at National is almost inevitably always full. You can park for up to ten days in the FP parking deck for the standard one-day fee, five bucks. The signage is minimal, but the area is on the lowest level in row "J".
Usually it is always full.
Somewhat unrelated but imagine if Chicago built an outer loop Lawrence/Cicero/95th - the number of new communities that could be served and the better routing that it could provide (like to MDW & ORD from outer communities).
Chicago needs that so bad
Look up the “Mid-City Transitway” on Wikipedia. Basically a CTA rail line to utilize an abandoned ROW east of Cicero Ave. From the Montrose Blue Line all the way down to the Orange line’s eventual Ford City terminus.
They put in a proposal for this and did a study…only to file it away and forget it, like so many other good ideas. Too expensive, they said…even as it proved to be very, VERY helpful for transit riders.
Lol I'm glad to see a Chicago comment here. It's incredibly ironic that in a city with a downtown area called "the Loop" there's not a single train line that actually runs in a loop
Do it. Georgetown and national harbor would give a lot of ridership and bring more people to national harbor
Geology may ruin the Georgetown station, over burden rocks in the vicinity are hard and thick... it is why there wasn't already a station. New technology may reduce the effort/cost... but I wouldn't be surprised if the BLOOP gets thr green light, this station still maybe last to make if at all
@@301jerm Just a P.S. Georgetown didn't want a station when Metro was being designed. I don't know if opinions have changed over the decades.
Lol,! I love your sense of humor: where to go? The Pentagon spending billions, or a Metro stop with an Italian restaurant requiring a similar budget.
Food in Alexandria is expensive! But I know an awesome pizza place in Georgetown that can feed us for a week for 10 bucks
Bloop. I'm old enough to remember when the Purple Line was meant to be a loop, with connectivity to National Harbor there. Perhaps MDOT MTA will consider extending the Purple Line there one day so that one doesn't have to enter DC to reach it via transit. Maybe there will be a joint Metro/Purple Line station there.
I really hope the initial section becomes a raging success, and politicians in MD make the right decisions.
@@Thom-TRA Despite the constant local news dooming about it, a lot of people are excited about the Purple Line-- I sure am.
For a while, there was talk of extending green line service to National Harbor, but seeing the concept for BLOOP--yeah, that works too.
Stations in national harbor and Georgetown would be absolutely massive
The biggest issue not mentioned in the video is operational -- where do trains get back on schedule when they are delayed? That is the reason the London "Circle" line is no longer a circle. My suggestion is to place the "ends" of the line at Huntington and the station on the other side of the Potomac, since they will receive the fewest passengers, and existing roads between these points are unusually time-consuming due to the lack of bridges, so a delay up to 10 minutes won't be unacceptable.
The Yamanote line in Tokyo still has two stations where they can pull out trains or add trains.
@@Thom-TRA Sure, you "cancel" a late train just like late bus runs are cancelled. But getting them back on schedule is usually the preferred option, so schedules have "padding" built in.
@@Thom-TRAYes but that's because the Yamanote line trains can exit their loop at Ikebukuro and Osaki would the bloop have such an option?
@@meandwhoism of course, there are yards
I believe on the Yamanote line, trains are scheduled to hold at Osaki for a few minutes to catch up to any delay that has occurred. They could do a similar thing with the Bloop. I feel like National Harbor would make the best place for a 'catch-up' station with 4 tracks, with the side benefit of allowing trains to begin there during and after major events.
Definitely Bloop. The traffic and bus service from SE DC and that part of Maryland is pretty rough and this would absolutely help solve for the issue. And you could also ask MGM to help subsidize the project or operating costs since it would bring a ton of foot traffic to their casino. If people don't have to worry about driving, maybe they'll gamble a bit later into the evening or drink that extra alcoholic beverage.
I’m sure MGM will want to buy naming rights
@@Thom-TRA Sure why not!
The Purple Line will create a partial loop around the Maryland suburbs.
I went to go look at some purple line construction the other day
I think the Purple Line is a project being overseen by the State of Maryland. I'm not sure how fare policy for the Purple Line will be compatible with the existing WMATA fare scheme.
Would love to see a video on the Purple line
@@MattBasch I’m sure I will make my fair share. I could always do a construction tour (maybe this winter, I’m a bit backed up with content right now).
I'd like to see the purple line extended to reach the silver line somewhere between eastern DC and Largo. It would be a relatively short extension that could be a big help for a lot of people living or working on the eastern side of DC and the Maryland suburbs.
Can you imagine how much better traffic would be in most major US cities if they all had metro systems like DC's?
Yep
And it’s still bad here lol
@@Thom-TRA if you're referencing DC, then can you imagine how even worse it would be if those half a million people who ride everyday drove that many extra cars on DC's roads?
BLOOP supporter here. Question for everyone from an amateur-- often you hear that tunneling is a very expensive option compared on on-ground or elevated track. We know the Wilson Bridge was designed to allow metro to go over it. Is there a feasible way to get the line to use this as a cost saving option (while not diminishing service)?
How I think it could be done: Have trains pull into Huntington regularly, and then reverse out onto an elevated viaduct that arcs east onto the bridge. That same layout could also be used at National Harbor which is kind of a "cul-de-sac" of development, before going north to Oxon Hill. The issue is that there'd be trains crossing the same track, operators may have to leave the front of the train to get to the "new front" at Huntington, and it would be more confusing to riders.
Alternatively: maybe have Huntington be a terminus and have the Bloop arc east from Eisenhower Ave station onto the Wilson Bridge. That way Huntington becomes one of two alternate terminals of the Yellow Line, along with Franconia. Maybe Huntington could one day be extended south a bit to Richmond Hwy or Mt. Vernon. And then the Blue Line would continue east to National Harbor. The bloop could even have an intermediate stop at S. Washington St where it passes over the beltway, providing south Old Town Alexandria and those nearby apartments with another stop.
Then again, with the amount of tunneling needing in the city core and Anacostia, perhaps tunneling under the Potomac is no big deal. Perhaps that right of way on the bridge could be better used for a future metro line or a LRT that goes into Alexandria and SE DC and better connects it to PG County at the green line like near Suitland Ave metro or Iverson St. What does everyone think?
The connection would be at Eisenhower, not Huntington and it would go over the Beltway, not a new bridge or tunnel. It's still too expensive but your proposals aren't within the realm of possibility.
as someone who lives near oxon hill, bloop will be a lifesaver
As someone who worked in Silver Springs but lived in Alexandria at one point, YES TO THE BLOOP. More suburb to suburb connections!
Um, actually, my hometown is called Silver Spring (singular) for a reason: just about two blocks northeast from the Metro Station on East-West Highway is Acorn Park: the Site of the Silver Spring. Open to the public, 24/7.
How would this even help with that situation ? What you would need is a circular line around the Beltway or a Bloop line that crosses the Red, Green and Red Lines at places like Van Ness, Petworth or Takoma.
Disclaimer: OPINION HAS BEEN CHANGED, I AM NO LONGER OPPOSING IT.
I am for one, not supporting this. While we do need better connections in Georgetown, I don't really want a loop line. While a new tunnel under DC also does sound great, the idea of two Rosslyn stations close by is just a bad idea.
However if these does get built, can we just use Rosslyn station instead? As in, the upper level of Rosslyn could be used for counter-clockwise trains and the bottom level could be used for clockwise trains? We need to sort this mess out first if we do end up building it.
Why I'm against it? Number 1, I don't really want to see a loop line running like this, Number 2 is the Rosslyn mess, and Number 3 is because there would still be no trains running into the Shirlington areas which should get some better public transport links so the area can be developed more.
Rosslyn would be the same station, just different platforms. Pretty normal for transit systems.
What’s wrong with loop lines? They’re so effective and this would make trips shorter for so many people.
A line to Shirlington can always be built later, doesn’t mean this shouldn’t be built.
@Thom-TRA I did do some thinking and now I'm just neutral about this. I wouldn't really even use it anyway as I don't go to any of these places often (besides the current sections built) but if this is to be built, we need to answer some questions. Which I could probably give some
QUESTIONS
1. Will we just go ahead and build this all at once, or are we building sections? Examples: Rosslyn to National Harbor heading east, Franconia to Navy Yard, we need to work it out
2. Will this line be better run by drivers or just run automatically? We could also just have something like London.
3. Where would the drivers change shifts?
4. Where would the depot be?
5. Should we use the 8000s or should we use a future 9000 series built separately for the Blue Lines?
ANSWERS
1a. We could start off with the most needed sections that are actually the purpose of the loop, from Georgetown to National Harbor. If we are making it in phases, that is the best section to make it to. The line would head from Georgetown to Franconia, and then head to National Harbor. THEN we link up the line from National Harbor to Georgetown via DC.
2a. If this is loop line, we could do something like London where the driver is monitoring the train and just opening and closing the doors, or we could just automate it.
3a. Rosslyn is the most reasonable place to have driver changes, where the train wouldn't immediately go out of service, another driver would enter into the cab and take over. During the rush hours if this is manually operated, we could have some trains terminate at King Street and run empty to Alexandria Depot. The same thing would happen in the PM.
4a. Alexandria Depot would be the current one and if we just use a separate depot, National Harbor is the most reasonable place to make it.
5a. No answer because I'll let someone else answer that.
@@DMVRailfan those are some very good questions!
@@Thom-TRA Thank you. All projects, confirmed and proposed have some deep questions that need to be answered.
I don’t think that the bloop is the right solution. As currently designed, the bloop does nothing to solve the severe interlining on Metrorail, which creates various operational issues. Additionally, because the bloop goes so far south into PG County and Alexandria, it is limited in its effectiveness as a true circumferential route. Rather than build the bloop, I personally would prefer to see the Blue Line continue all the way under H Street before taking over the existing line to Largo. And then, Metro should also invest in a line up Georgia Avenue to Silver Spring and beyond to White Oak, this line would then connect across the river to the Yellow Line and head down Columbia Pike to Annandale (thereby deinterlining Yellow from Blue and Green). For additional service east of the river, I think this would better be served with a Green Line branch that goes to National Harbor.
As a daily user, I don’t think the interlining is the problem people make it out to be. 3 lines is a lot but if there are only 2 every line, that can actually be a good thing. Vienna doesn’t need the frequency that foggy bottom does, and St. Elizabeth’s doesn’t need the frequency that the pentagon does.
The Bloop reminds me of a recent project that fianlly opened here in Los Angeles, the regional connector has really improved my commute trips as I no longer have to make 2 transfers to get from Long Beach to Pasadena (Blue Line to red line to gold line formerly, now the Blue and Gold Lines merge), it would be exciting for those people in Maryland to be able to get to Virginia or vise versa in one go without so many transfers
A few years back my sister in law was stationed at Bethesda. We were able to stay near her on base and walk to the station near the front gate. We had a lot of fun ridding around the city. Love the stations there.
Bloop woop! This actually sounds like a pretty dang solid proposal! Especially with new weekday trip numbers estimating as high as 180k! Like thats more than any metro line in Copenhagen where I'm from right now, including our downtown loop line, the M3 City Circle that opened 4 years ago
Bloop woop! Love it
I’m a blue line baby. Early childhood was spent a short walk away from the Van Dorn station then spent my high school years very near to the Franconia station. Part of the line was trenched along the street I lived on (Fleet Rd.). I miss the metro so much. Really took it for granted…
Do you live away from the metro now?
You went to Edison?
Now, BLOOP, but also a note of caution. Services like the Circle Line of the London Underground and the S41/S42 in Berlin show the inherent problem in loop running. If trains don't have obvious termini where all passengers have to disembark, then it's more hassle to remove trains from service, e.g. when you added some for rush hour service then want to ease back off for daytime service. Or when one develops a fault during service. This was such a hassle in London that the Circle is no longer a circle. Just a cautionary note to bear in mind, but I hope DC Metro will also bear it in mind if they go for BLOOP. Cheers, Chris
The Yamanote line in Tokyo has two stations near yards where they terminate if needed (Osaki and Otsuka). About halfway through the loop they’ll switch to saying they’ll terminate.
@@Thom-TRA it would make sense to add a yard on the southern end Maryland side. Then have a station there act as a quasi-terminus for both directions, perhaps have a balloon loop for one of the directions to lead back into the yard. Just spitballing, pretty sure there are some holes in that idea.
BLOOP
Aren't loop systems more resilient to service interruptions? If clockwise tracks fail, you just hop on the counter-clockwise train and circumnavigate.
they should consider connecting the outer ends of the Red Line in a loop too, it's so annoying having to go all the way through DC just to get from Silver Spring to Rockville by Metro.
BLOOP! Although I would actually like to see a slightly altered plan. Rather than letting the Blue line take over the Huntington branch of the Yellow line after coming back across the Potomac, i'd construct the tunnel to end slightly further to the North, and build a new terminus at King St - Old Town. The Yellow Line would continue to run to Huntington, the Blue line would run from Franconia - Springfield to King St - Old Town and throught to Rosslyn as it does now, from there run on the new 'BLOOP' tracks, which would terminate at the new terminus at King St - Old Town (different platforms, ofc). That way, you create something similar to the current Circle line in London. The reason the Circle line came to be the way it is now, is that a circular metro route is very difficult to operate, even more so when there is interlining, which is the case for both the Circle line and the future BLOOP. So I think it would be wise to learn from London rather than copy its mistake.
I don’t think the difficulty to operate is inherent to loops, I think the circle line is a difficult case. Many many branches interlining with each other. There are plenty of global examples worldwide of loop lines that do work great. Even the Osaka loop line in Japan, which has a ton of interlining. What’s important is to have points where trains can enter and leave the loop.
How would you do the signage and verbiage so as to not confuse people ? Imagine how it is now at stations like Metro Center, Gallery Place, L'enfant Plaza or Fort Totten transfer point to the so and so line. With your suggestion you could be on a Blue Line and being told this is a transfer point to the Blue Line.
The only hesitation I have is making sure they have the funding to properly operate the extension. They need to solve their current operations shortfall, and not just with a bandaid, temporary, kick the can down the road sorta fix, before they add additional tracks that will increase operation costs even more. If they can't afford to run trains on it on a high frequency, they shouldn't build it.
This is years if not decades down the line…
The BLOOP is ultimately the best solution, but I don't think WMATA will do that all at once. Building the second tunnel will be expensive and they'll move one of the lines over to that first. Then, depending on how that works out, they'll move the Blue line to it and extend the line south on the east side of the river. Finally, assuming the almost BLue Line Loop works out well, they will build the tunnel under the Potomac and complete the BLOOP. Overall, three distinct phases, each 5 or 10 years apart, so we're talking 20-30 years until the BLOOP becomes a reality.
I disagree. I don't think bloop is a good idea. I'm a local who frequently takes the orange line so I feel like I have a say.
1. Bloop is way too expensive. $30B is a lot. And usually I'm not someone who advocates, "let's have more connectivity with busses rather than train" cuz i don't think they serve the same functions, I think Metrobus seriously needs better connectivity, service, and speed boosts. We can easily double bus ridership with that kind of funding
2. You can fix "overcrowding" with CBTC and ATO. That would allow Metro to run about 30 - 33 tph in the Rosslyn tunnel, which would mean 5 - 6 min headways on each line, which would be enough for the foreseeable future, which is desperately needed for Tysons.
3. Very few journeys are being done from the blue line corridor to the Maryland shore of the Potomac. There is just not a lot there and most people are traveling to points further east in Maryland, which Metro doesn't have connectivity to anyways.
4. Bloop travels way too closely to the original alignment within downtown. DC lacks any sort of Metro east-west connection north of the original blue/orange/silver line alignment, and there's A LOT of dense development up north. We should build something more north, preferably around the U St corridor. Taking the bus between the Wisconsin Ave corridor, red, and green lines east-west just sucks right now. There
I’m all for an East west corridor further north. But your other points run aren’t as solid. And this is coming from someone living in downtown DC with multiple contacts at WMATA and the city.
A second tunnel isn’t just for higher frequency (which will be way higher when it’s just two lines than three), it’s also redundancy which is good in case of emergencies.
The capacity issue is the crossing under the Potomac. That has a max of 26 tph. No amount of improving ATO (which they’re literally working on) will be able to improve that.
There is demand for service on that side of the river. It’s a fast-growing area and people really do travel in both directions. The NH2 is quite a busy route.
I CONCUR BLOOP!!! National Harbor is a new destination for many MD/DC/VA visitors. Plus service to the military bases on the east side of the Potomac allowing cross base military traffic between Pentagon and these HQ facilities. Perfect. BLOOP all the way.Oh and the expansion of service for the many military travelers to from Union station and shorter transfer to both Reagan and Dulles for TDY, or PCS? God send. #BLOOPisbest
#BLOOPis best
I hadn’t even considered the military aspect of it
@@Thom-TRA If money from Congress is used including military is always a help. That's how the interstate highway bill got passed in the 1950's - for anti-infrastructure right wingers including a military aspect got them onboard - officially the "Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways." And the reduction in CO2(except from all that concrete curing initially!,), pollution and traffic is an obvious selling point for the reality based crowd.
How long would it take to actually build BLOOP? I’m only talking about construction not the political aspects of it.
i want all of them! and i have a new line proposal! its called the centeral line and starts at National Defense U and ends at Truxton Circle! making stops at: Nationals park,navy yard,garfield park,capitol south,U.S capitol,judiciary sq,union station and sursum corda! this line will help traffic get from north to south of central downtown dc!
I lived in DC two different times and they were so different due to general access to the metro. The first time was in Ballston and I had a station one block away from my room and a station at my office. The second time it was at Bolling AFB and it was over two miles walk to the station in Anacostia.
I like the Bloop idea. I use much of the system to go various places, but I most frequently use the Orange Line from New Carrollton. I visit Georgetown often and walk from Foggy Bottom. A stop in the heart of Georgetown on any line would be great!
I grew up in DC in the late 90s and early 2000s and they needed a loop even then! They really need to get cracking on an outer loop train all the way around, too, but I understand that's in contentious works rn. The sounds and sights of this video brought me back to the stations. I can even smell them in my memory!
Agreed 100%! Born and raised here and I’ve been saying for years we need a beltway line, no brainer!
My idea: Build the bloop in two (or 3) phases. Phase one being Rosslyn to Union Station, and for the time being having a connection to the red line to run trains to greenbelt via the old fort totten connection. Phase 2 would extend the blue through National Harbor and complete the loop (if funds run short, they can even complete the loop later by pushing off the river tubes to a phase 3)
The Woodrow Wilson Bridge that takes I-495/I-95 across the Potomac River between Alexandria and Maryland was built with lanes for mass transit trains. That significantly reduces the cost of BLOOP.
A blue line loop would be such a waste of money and resources. I don't think people really realize just how little stuff there is in that part of SE DC.
@Thom-TRA SE DC already has the Green Line, which covers the area very well. The area between the Green Line and the Potomac doesn't have much room to expand because there's a massive military base and I-295. There is so much more room to expand in PG County, where the other proposals are located. Extending the Blue line through to Greenbelt or New Carrollton could create much more development than another Line in SE DC. And a water crossing from Alexandria to SE DC would be such a waste of money that could be used for additional water crossings into Downtown DC from Arlington.
@Thom-TRA I am an Arlington native studying urban planning. I have studied greater DC at length and have volunteered for urban planning groups in SE DC. There are only really three neighborhoods between the Green Line and I-295 in SE DC, and two of them are already served by the Green line. SE DC could really use more transit, but it should be NE of the Green Line and not SW of it. And yes, I do prefer more metro lines into DC rather than circumferential lines connecting suburbs. The Metro's main purpose is connecting localities within DC, and its secondary purpose is connecting DC to the suburbs. Circumferential trips aren't nearly as common for us locals, so such trips should be made by lower tier transit like BRT or low-floor trams like the previously mentioned Purple Line.
@@bugno9969 well keep studying hard at urban planning and maybe metro will hire you someday. That would be cool.
@@bugno9969 I’m sorry for responding harsh earlier. It’s been a stressful day today. Appreciate your response.
@Thom-TRA Yeah. While I disagree with the bloop, it certainly is much cooler than many of WMATAs weird ideas over the years. I appreciate you coming to DC for another video, and I look forward to more good transit coverage 👍
Sending the Silver Line through Rosslyn without upgrading the station was bad planning. Rosslyn was insanely busy BEFORE the Silver Line. I lived there, work was a few blocks from Rosslyn station, when they started building the Silver Line. I remember talks of sending the silver line through a new tunnel into Georgetown back then but I guess there wasn't enough support from the public at large. Your idea of the BLOOP is very logical growth for the whole system. Love it.
Thanks! I wish I could claim it as my idea, but this is one of the ideas WMATA has suggested and analyzed
Please get a loop line, I want there to be at least one city other than New York that has decent public transit. #DCBLOOP
DC’s is already pretty good when you look at it, but can of course always be better
You can say the same thing about a place like Hong Kong with some of the best transit worldwide
Definitely an interesting idea! And from my knowledge, this would almost be a transit line of its own kind. Now I do know that especially around the world, many cities with 'major' transit networks have 'orbital' routes. But they are really 'orbital' in that they 'orbit' around the 'core' or 'center' of the network (which usually is the 'center' of the city these systems serve). And it's even more common for larger cities to have parallel lines that go through sections of the 'city/regional center' (as those 'centers' are usually larger as a result) and intersect each other in a network of nodes. But the BLOOP idea seems to be a combination of both: the section between Rosslyn in Arlington, VA (or even from national landing/Regan airport area really) & Union Station is still fairly 'centrally located', while the section across the Potomac b/w NH & Huntingdon is more 'orbital' (they literally are outside of the 'Beltway'), with 2 radial sections closing the 'loop'. I feel like this setup is gonna be rare. But I say let's do it!
And speaking of 'orbital' lines & the idea of 'going b/w MD & VA without going into central DC, I do believe another important solution is to finish the purple line, and extend it to VA. (Although I got to say I feel a little pity that they chose to build a light rail instead). Especially, it should extend from the currently planned terminus at Bethesda to Tysons/Vienna area. (Or as I sometimes say, the '9-12' section of the Beltway, from Tysons to Silver Spring, as the traffic of this section is among THE CRAZIEST I've ever seen).
The Dc Metro Getting a Loop Line Sounds Amazing
Doesn’t it?
When the Metro opened, the yellow line was designated as the route to what is now Franconia/Springfield. There were actually two short branches in the plans, which where shelved to create the existing Franconia/Springfield station.
The continuity between shots here is *chef’s kiss*
Something they didn’t mention is that the bloop could help prevent crowding after sporting events at navy yard and if mci center is replaced by a stadium in Arlington.
Yes, anything WMATA can do to prevent overcrowding is good!
Stadium/arena in Arlington? Forget it.
Franc-Spring was my jam years ago while living in Woodbridge. Especially since I travelled a lot! Franc-Spring has long term parking! 15-20 mins to National and I am on my way. Best station ever!
the bloop is fine but I voted for the silver line to new carrollton option because it adds a bunch of spots in northeast which feels like a real up and coming part of the city. Atleast for me as someone living in ballston, getting better metro access to northeast feels more exciting than getting better metro access to southeast
There should be a yellow line branch that covers that area instead
DC can learn from Philly and use more light rail to support the main heavy rail system.
Love Yamamoto line in tokyo it was my go to when i was a student in japan…it goes through takaba, shinjuku, shibuya, shin_okubo koreatown. Bloop makes sense cost effective.
bloop for sure. I used to live and work on DC. The bloop solution is brilliant. Great video
Thom, another great educational video, Thanks.
I like that the 7000 series have the automated announced connection is available to the Virginia Railway Express as the train operators don't announce that on the older cars
London un-looped their famous Circle Line some years back and turned it into more of a spiral, with an endpoint, because they found that this was better for managing capacity--it made it easier to take trains on and off the line. But the Circle Line is entirely in the dense urban center of London--I don't think this would be a problem with a BLOOP that goes out into the suburbs; you could actually have a siding with a train shed somewhere, and you could have some minority of trains do a reduced service that has an ending at that point.
Singapore has a "Circle Line" that is not yet a circle, with plans to close it up between Harbourfront and Marina Bay sometime next year. I remember feeling that gap keenly when I visited the place.
it should have been an original plan to begin with. Think about it:
Many PG County folk work in VA. Why should it take over 30 minutes and switching trains when a river is the only thing separating it?
Building a loop makes going back and forth easy and I also believe it would ease Wilson Bridge traffic.
Agree a circle line is a good idea. Wish there were more thought about where it could go within the city of DC. Nowhere should be more than a 10 min walk from a metro station, yet several pockets like Adams Morgan, Georgetown, Logan Circle, or many places east of the river, do not meet that criteria. It would require more tunneling perhaps, but the proposed loop would require new tunnels anyway. Mostly just want them to get started on it. Also, I’m not sure “bloop” is great branding…if there is ever an issue or delay or anything it would immediately be turned around. 🤷♂️
I can’t fathom what would possibly be wrong with the name bloop. It’s playful, it’s easy, it has no connotations.
I like the BLOOP idea the best too. Waste Management NYC trash train at 10:30. In the summer watching trains from Long Bridge park those trains can really hum headed south!
I mean I kinda like the fact 3 lines are on one segment but I understand sort of that one line could lead to all 3 even if it isn’t actually affecting the other 2 directly. If I had to choose, loop prolly makes the most sense but I wonder why they aren’t considering doing a U shape like the Red if they are that desperate for a national harbor stop? Like if they did a loop would trains continue using both tracks or only one direction?
Both directions. Loop lines are common around the world. And a loop makes way more sense than a U shape since people can always take the shortest trip between destinations.
@@Thom-TRA yah u absolutely right I was just sorta thinking at the red line a little bit and how not many that ride that particular line seem to have an issue with it
@@ethanparker7900purple line orbital light rail, maybe?
@@Thom-TRA very true. I was kinda thinking ab the current red line i guess lol cause both ends are in Montgomery County near each other driving distance. If there is a loop instead of a U, I wonder what would the destination signs say like what would be considered the first and last stop?
@@Thom-TRA Loops stink. London got rid of theirs for a reason.
Allot of people connect to the VRE from this station. Virginia had been talking about expanding the blue line further south to Prince William County
Yeah DC should’ve been had a loop long ago. The Yamanote Line is awesome! Loved that line in Tokyo. Hopefully they add the loop
BLOOP! My cousin who currently lives in DC messaged me about this project a few days ago. I immediately thought of you and it’s funny that you made a video four days later. We both agree with your assessment that #BLOOPisbest.
#BLOOPisbest, I love it
Imagine this: A one seat ride between Union Station, Capitol-South, National Harbor, National, the Pentagon, Rosslyn, Georgetown, and Farragut. All in a single seat trip. In a loop.
Watch them choose the turnback plan, I would cry.
That’s when we protest lol
You could also just remove the H/Benning Streetcar and send Silver Line trains from a new tunnel at Stadium-Armory to Rosslyn II. It would connect Union station to Largo (directly or maybe Silver Line short turns at Stadium-Armory like was originally planned), which would provide more options to get to Union Station East-West. I also made my old idea for the Bloop go a bit further North and East with a Pink line serving the west ends-with Oxen Hill being a transfer point where Blue would continue to National Harbor towards Alexandria
Also Blue is 100% de-interlined with transfers at King St-Old Town (Blue would be underground), Pentagon City (cross-platform), Rosslyn (likely cross-platform), Georgetown [Pink], Dupont Circle, U St-Cardozo, Brookland-CUA, Minnesota Av, Benning Rd, and Naylor Rd, and Oxen Hill [Pink]
Your videos are really quite terrific. So well researched, with skilled presentation and delivery. Always great seeing a new one!
Thank you so much!
Interestingly, the Blue Line originally was going to go to Huntington with Yellow going to Springfield (Franconia and Springfield were to be separate stops) so the “BLOOP” would restore the original alignment for Blue and Yellow in Fairfax County.
The big issue here is the cost and extensive underground tunneling needed to build a new line under the Potomac and through DC from G’town to Union Station and beyond. The original work in the 1970s was difficult and made for a real mess with streets and other spaces laid open to relocate utilities and build the tunnels. In high density downtown areas, the impacts can’t be overstated.
Where you can build above ground, such as the connection on the eastern bank of the Potomac down past St E’s and Oxon Hill, that would be much easier and somewhat cheaper to do, but let’s be honest. Look at the Purple Line debacle. It’s still not open, not even a portion of it, and it’s been “under construction” for years now.
I think this idea, while really appealing, is dead on arrival. Plus, fares would need to be raised dramatically to reflect what Metro truly is-a commuter rail connecting suburbs with downtown DC. Metro is not an intracity subway. More than half of the stations are outside of the city limits: 18 in MD, 32 in VA, 40 in DC.
But we can dream.
I think this is a pessimistic take. It fulfills both roles. I for one almost exclusively use it as an intracity metro, and it serves me quite well in that capacity. But I like that it also extends to the suburbs, so those people don’t have to drive into the city or use the lackluster commuter rail.
Without retrocession, many of those VA stations would be in the "city" so jurisdiction is not a good distinction for DC or any other metro area. It is obviously relevant for support, approval, and funding, but not necessarily useful for system classification.
The BLOOP would not include a Georgetown station, since brutal car congestion is a key part of the historical experience of M street
The bloop just doesn’t feel like it makes a dent anywhere and doesn’t get people to where they work
I mean sure, if you just ignore the thousands of people in SE DC who are forced to use buses to get anywhere. Or people who work in Northern Virginia.
@@Thom-TRA Sparseness between The Anacostia station and National Harbor kills that side of the project. Construction costs kill the rest.
@@jyutzler when’s the last time you were in DC?
@@Thom-TRA IDK, a few weeks ago? What difference does that make? When's the last time you've looked at a map?
@@jyutzler I look at the map of the city I live in almost every day.
The southern end of the line wouldn’t run through the densest part of DC, but it’s denser than some areas the metro already serves. And it’s mostly low-income, backed up by the large number of bus routes that serve the area.
It’s time to correct the adverse effects of the (monstrously expensive) highway that runs through there.
I like that BLOOP would allow me to take a single train from DCA to Union Station.
SO TRUE. (BLOOP)
BLOOP! As an Arlington resident it’s the clear winner for me in terms of connectivity. Better connections to intercity trains at Union Station. More capacity for dealing with crowds at Nats Park and Audi Field with a Buzzard Point station. Some overdue transit improvements for SE DC East of the Anacostia.
One thing you didn’t mention about the silver line express is that Metro’s proposal involved boring deep tunnel lines from outside the Beltway, through Falls Church and Arlington, to the new Rosslyn Tunnel. All that cost to get a suburban express line is really hard to justify. Still, i hope it’s the genesis of a Crossrail/RER type arrangement where we have new deep tunnel Metros that go express across the region to link up the airports and intercity train stations.
There were Extension lines to current lines. I got to see this from my Uncle who was secondary engineer (as a designer) for the Red Line, as a kid in the early 70's. The loop line wouldn't surprise me.
I wish that red line had continued to Frederick. Would've saved me having to drive to Shady Grove weekly.
BLOOP! I actually love the plan a lot and think it is by far the best option and would add ridership and provide much needed relief.
The only thing that bothers me a little about it is the complete reuse of VA stations. I would almost rather the loop expand west a bit or something new that could add capacity and ridership from new stations. It seems like all of the new stations would be MD and DC, and I just wish that there could've been something like National Harbor -> King's Street, then go west to new locations in Arlington and Fairfax that are not currently served.
I really love the plan overall, I just think that could've been something they considered. But at the same time, my guess is the price was already so high that they had to choose what they could. Maybe in the future they could consider that.
You'll need relief points because operators sometimes need a break.
I like the idea of the BLOOP but living near the end of the silver line and having over an hour commute daily each way is why I'm for the express silver line. I waited over 30 years for the silver line and it was initially supposed to be part of the original metro system plan in the 60s. The 4 stops in the Tyson's/McLean area slows the trip a lot which makes an express train important to the western silver liners. It'd be nice if they could do both enhancements. People that fly from Dulles airport would benefit for a quicker trip there.
But I understand why BLOOP would be great.
While a line to Ivy City and Union Market would be nice, the loop to National Harbor makes more sense because PG County, MD has higher density that will improve Metro’s long term revenue. More diverse communities will also benefit from being connected to rapid transit so it’s also the best fair, equitable option.
I appreciate the insight! I’m doing my best to try to get to know this city.
I’ve wondered if a red line branch could work to serve the other neighborhoods.
There are far denser communities in PG county without metro service, for example the Penn Ave corridor in PG county.
@@johngorman6641 density is not the only variable planners have to look at
@@Thom-TRA Ofc it isn't, but a transit system that serves lots of low density neighborhoods is bound to get very low ridership ... like Metrorail. Serving the places and corridors with high job and population density must be a major concern to transit planners.
@@johngorman6641 Washington metro has the third highest ridership in the US despite being the 23rd largest city
I dove into the comments before adding mine. I live in Greenbelt and am all for the BLOOP. In Old Greenbelt where I live, we have excellent Metrobus service that in one direction takes us to Greenbelt Station -- the terminus of the Green Line -- and in the other direction takes us to New Carrollton Station -- the terminus of the Orange Line. With the Purple Line run by the State of Maryland connecting three lines (Orange with New Carrollton, Green with College Park, Red with Silver Spring, and Red again with Bethesda), we have an excellent bypass around DC, though it will be slow going as it is light rail.
I am all for the BLOOP for several reasons: access to Georgetown/West End, relief to BOTH Rosslyn and Union Station as choke points, and access to National Harbor. With regard to National Harbor, the real question is where such a station to be, as there are in fact three (3) National Harbors: the Tanger Outlet, the MGM Casino, and the Tourist Trap where they regrettably moved The Awakening from Haines Point. Tanger and MGM have free parking. The Tourist Trap has zero free parking and could use Metro more than either Tanger or MGM. However, MGM would likely be the desired terminus AND there is a free shuttle from MGM to the Tourist Trap part of National Harbor.
The conundrum that I didn't see anyone talk about: NIMBY: Not In My Back Yard. One Chevy Chase Country Club is what set back the Purple Line like forever. I am not so worried about the part in MD as I am about the northern end between Georgetown and Union Station. DC is a litigious city already; the BLOOP could bring out all the lawyers...and psychiatrists to deal with all the NIMBYs!
Still, I am all for the BLOOP. I just hope that the NIMBYs can take a chill pill and see the bigger picture: a more cohesive and connected DC Metro Area.
I remember the original plans for the purple line were supposed to go around the beltway. I think the final plan now is from Bethesda to College Park
The purple line is from Bethesda to New Carrollton. I think the extension around the beltline was more of a fantasy map than an actual plan because it is exclusively a Maryland project.
As someone in suburban car dependent Annandale, I think the next expansion after the blue line should be a very *expensive* revivial of the Columbia Pike metro stop, we need to expand in underserved communities and more infill areas in nova.
I know the pike was supposed to receive light rail and got the lackluster Pike Ride instead. Breathing new life into the metro would be the best option. But can VA have the leadership needed to see it through?
@@Thom-TRA I hope so there was some surprising bills introduced this session that was going to legalize mixed use housing on strip malls by a fairly moderate senator. The Dillion rule sadly makes localities dependent on the state to fund the metro funding or large scale projects with funding. I am hoping the next dem trifecta works towards a dedicated funding stream for WMATA. I believe in 2020 there was a study for the pike not sure if it went through or not. Youngkin said he was a YIMBY but hasn’t worked with the legislature yet on a ADU bill that actually got a few Republican senators and a Loudoun dem actually opposed (who also got the largest amount of money in the supply subsequently, 2 million), that’s getting shelved until next year. I think Spanberger is all but guaranteed to become governor I just hope it gets prioritized enough
Will the yellow line take over Franconia Springfield then? Since the blue line will go to Huntington instead?
Growing up in PG County, I remember when the National Harbor was nothing but trees. The third tunnel at Rosslyn is needed and Georgetown is long overdue for a station. With that said, I'd be all for BLOOP idea.
Currently the tail tracks at Huntington are underground so you have a foundation to continue tunneling under the Potomac River and towards the National Harbor, which could use a station in my opinion along with the stops in DC/Maryland around Bolling AFB, etc.
BLOOP would also provide an additional option for crossing the 495 Woodrow Wilson Bridge which is always a pain to cross especially during rush hour.
Apparently the Wilson Bridge was designed with a median wide enough for a metro line. That said putting metro on a drawbridge would be a unique first... but I wonder if it'd be better to do that than the cost of tunneling under the river?
@@sebastianjoseph2828 Interesting comment regarding the drawbridge. Only issue would be the delays that would inevitably come up when the drawbridge has to activate plus the signaling, operation cost, etc. Tunneling may the be more expensive option but it would be straightforward.
@@JerrellWoolford Yeah the more I think about it, extensive tunnel would be needed in the DC core and under the Anacostia anyway. Almost certainly in SE DC too. So the added cost of a tunnel under the Potomac might be well worth it. The Wilson Bridge rarely opens- 60 times a year or so. But that's still enough to ruin train timetables.
The Wilson Bridge might be better off serving a hypothetical future light rail.
We need this!! Just moved here and the BLOOP would genuinely make my commute feasible by metro, because I don't get metro service near my job in Georgetown
And the buses in Georgetown are not exactly what I’d call great…
The Bloop plan needs just one change: having Silver end in New Carrollton and Orange end at Largo. This way, the Silver Line directly attaches to Amtrak & MARC service, and it creates the possibility for if/when Metro were to expand to BWI that there would be one continuous international airport to international airport train service.
I think if any line were to be extended to BWI it would probably be the Green Line
There is no reason to extend Metro to BWI when rail links already exist. Why is this even being discussed?
@@jyutzler Alexandria was already served by rail. Why build a metro there?
Or perhaps people with more insight realize that such a corridor serves a growing region currently plagued by sub-par transit connections.
Your cynicism on this page is not welcome, nor is it rooted in much substance beyond populist perceptions of reality.
@Thom-TRA I could not find the decision the metro made out of the given options, or if they picked something else. Would you happen to know?
Sadly they haven't made a decision yet
@@Thom-TRA That makes sense, thank you.
Red line needs some massaging, also a key candidate for a loop IMO with the existing terminus prox.
Yeah, if the population density up there can justify it
@@Thom-TRAit does, plus if you live in Damascus it's an hour plus bus ride(that only shows up every half hour) to even get to the nearest train station. Metro to somewhere like Germantown and Gaithersburg would be ridiculously helpful for those living in northern Montgomery County
So, on the current system, if you're going from Franconia-Springfield to Downtown Largo, is it faster to stay on the Blue line, or transfer to the Yellow between King and Pentagon and back to the Blue at L'Enfant Plaza? And you make a good case for BLOOP.
You will be a few minutes faster transferring to yellow, mostly because at L’Enfant you also have the option to take Silver to Largo.
I voted for the loop and I love that you call it the Bloop. That's what I call it from now on and hope that is what they pick in the fall.
I currently live in Oxon Hill, driving wise I can get to the national mall in 15-20 mins. Technically it's a great location because we are so close to the DC and we have the beltway, but it is soooo soo driving dependant. Unlike Alexandria, we have no train lines that pass by here and if I didn't have a car it would take me an hour or two to take multiple buses and finally hop on a line to get anywhere DC central. I think it just makes total sense, there are so much traffic here in the morning of people communicating into DC, the National harbor has been expanding and growing even more as a spot to see/visit on the Maryland side, and the community here just doesn't have access like it does In NOVA (Northern Virginia). I hope Oxon Hill can be a part of the train line system within the next decade and the community grow because of it.
I think Metro's biggest need is to connect the Yellow/Blue lines near the Wilson Bridge to P.G. County. Why? All of the Pentagon workers could bus or drive to an Oxon Hill station, cross the Wilson and depart at Reagan Airport, Pentagon, etc. Better than them driving thru D.C., over the 14th Street Bridge to the Pentagon.
Seeing cars with Maryland plates crossing the 14th street Bridge from the Pentagon into D.C. and into P.G. County has to be the commute from hell. A congested bridge and then congested freeways. Not an easy trip!!
I don’t know if anyone else has mentioned this, but less than an hour after the air Florida plane crashed into the 14th Street Bridge over the Potomac River in January 1982, metro rail had its first fatal crash when an orange line train derailed in the tunnel between federal triangle and Smithsonian stations. Thankfully it didn’t happen in the tunnel under the Potomac River. It was also snowing that day which contributed to the plane crash. In the years since, metro usually limits its train service to just the underground sections during snow storms. So if a train were to crash so badly in the tunnel under the river that the tunnel is shut down, then the only other current metro line from dc to Virginia is the yellow line bridge over the Potomac. That bridge wasn’t built (or at least not completed) yet when the plane crashed into the 14th Street bridge. But imagine if it had and if it too was hit. Both means of getting commuters from dc to Virginia via metro rail would be out of commission, forcing all of them to take to the snowy streets during a snowstorm while one of the main road bridges was also closed due to a major plane crash! Now think of the the September 11th terrorist attacks and the plane that crashed into the pentagon. The pentagon is also where the blue and yellow lines meet in Virginia.
Having a metro rail line that loops and provides two new tunnel crossings under the Potomac River would be very vital to moving commuters during tragic events while possibly bypassing the events themselves. It would also incentivize more commuters to get off the traffic jammed beltway by giving them a way to ride metro rail from Alexandria to national harbor and connect to the green line wiper having to go through dc.
One thing you didn't mention is that some of the tunnels aren't really tunnels.
The Green Line between Anacostia and Navy Yard is in a tube at the bottom of the Anacostia River its not a tunnel that was done with a boring machine and covered in concrete; if a crash was to happen there you have the possibility of damaging the tube and flooding the system with water.
Second we dont need all the tunnels or tubes in the same general area like how most of the bridges crossing the Potomac are within about 2 and a half miles from each other ? We should have a bridge between the Chain Bridge and the Key Bridge and another two between the George Mason Bridge and the Woodrow Wilson Bridge and atleast two more between the Wilson and Harry Nice Bridge. There are more bridges crossing the Anacostia River than the Potomac River.
I'm not American so I don't know the details but I'm curious about this, so if you or any DC resident know about it would be great to hear from your opinions. How long do you think will take to build this loop after they decide on it? I heard the IBX in NYC will take many years due to their bureaucracy or something but I also heard that DC metro has the best quality in USA so what do you think? Do you think DC also gonna take years of bureaucracy to build it as well?
Yes, it's a 10-20 year project once they decide to build. The Silver Line was much simpler (only a 10-figure project) and it took 15 years.
The dinosaurs would come back from extinction before Georgetown residents approve of a Metro line through there.../s
Sooooo.... What happened? I can't find any updates about these proposals.
They have postponed the decision
@@Thom-TRA I'm shocked
I’ll accept the bloop however , with the bloop add a new line between rosslyn II and Franconia Springfield since blue line will still be interlining the new line still will have Empty is gaps
The Bloop looks like a good idea. I'm old enough to remember when the blue line was extended fron National Airport to VanDorn St; early 90s.
What I think would be most impactful is having a loop around the beltway, and one around the second beltway (286). I do like the BLOOP though, more loops are better.
BLOOP is the clear way to go. I’m glad Mr. Randy acknowledges that if you get too scared to invest in the future infrastructure then you just set yourself back.
I know plenty of people that would love to get to National harbor, MGM, and especially Georgetown without driving a car there. That Rosslyn station is in dire need of relief.
BLOOP isn't a terrible idea. If you want to infill or insert stations along the already existent route, fine. There should be a line along the Capital Beltway - the Violent Line or something like that. They insist that the Purple Line isn't part of Metro, though MTA wants to make sure there are interchanges at some major Metro stops....so maybe to avoid confusion, there wouldn't be a Violet Line....but some other color. That would connect the Blue and Yellow terminating stops to added National Harbor and Oxon Hill stops. To me, it doesn't make sense to have three lines terminate in Largo. I wouldn't be against the Blue Line turning South at Benning Road, Fort Dupont, Pennsylvania Ave East, Anacostia, Bolling, Blue Plains, Forest Heights, and National Harbor.
St. Elizabeth is already served by Congress Heights on the Green Line.
I was hoping to hear my voice somewhere along the way in your video (I'm a train operator). Disappointed but not surprised that I didn't hear myself. Ah, well...
I’m sure I’ve heard you before. I tend to ride the metro a lot.
BLOOP all the way. As a current blue line user, I see this as an absolute win. The National Harbor would be way easier to access and more connections to the green line is also convenient.