Developmental Editing: Worth It?
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- Опубліковано 4 січ 2025
- Is developmental editing worth it?
As one of the most expensive edits you can buy, a developmental edit is about structuring your story so it has the biggest impact. In this video, I’ll explore what a developmental edit is, what to expect, and how to determine if you need one in the first place.
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This is the most valuable video I have watched on developmental editing. Thanks a million. I'm a first-time author.
Wow, I have never heard this perspective before. Especially from a serious Indie. There’s this thing serious indies say about having a super professional and high quality product and that a part of that includes developmental editing. Thank you for sharing an intelligent and thought provoking alternative perspective. Definitely gives folks something serious to consider
I just finished with a $1700 structural edit on a 70K word draft. I didn’t sign up to get a pat on the back, I wanted to know where my book was weak and to work on those sections of my book. My editor has a great track record with some well known books and I really enjoyed working with her. The report I got back was extensive and it has given me a clear direction of what to concentrate on. Where I did feel ripped off was on a sensitivity reader. For $300 all I got back was ‘I’m not insulted by the contents of your book’ and when I asked further questions all I got was silence. As a first time writer we feel our way through the process, sometimes we get good value and sometimes we are taken advantage of. My personal experience with a structural edit was quite a positive one.
If it worked for you, fine. Yes, I’d stay away from sensitivity readers. :(
Who did you use for the developmental edit?
Thanks for sharing your perspective. Out of interest, why would you need a sensitivity reader? Just because someone might be insulted by the book's contents doesn't mean you don't have the right to express yourself.
@@Musicienne-DAB1995 Sensitivity readers aren't there to make sure nobody is insulted by your book, that is impossible. However, if, for example, a white, male writer who lives in a primarily middle-class, white neighbourhood writes a book about black women who grew up in a poor, primarily black neighbourhood that he's never seen or visited except for snapshots on TV, he might need a Diversity reader. And I believe the industry has long stopped calling them sensitivity readers. They are Diversity readers now and their job is to make sure that marginalised societies like certain races and people with disabilities are not misrepresented by authors who basically know nothing about these groups. You do have the right to express yourself, but not at the expense of painting someone else in a false light. Clearly, this type of beta reading is not for everyone. But if your book comes out and you get backlash from readers in the form of bad reviews for being stereotypical or racist, you would have wished you had passed it by someone from the marginalised demographic to critique first. $300 is ridiculously high for a diversity reading though. I have done diversity readings, given full report suggestions and I wouldn't charge more than $30-$50, depending on the length of the book.
Great advice Michael. I loved your comment “confidence is the cornerstone of any writers career” and I really appreciate the time and effort you put into helping writers through this channel.
Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
This might be the best video I've watched on UA-cam. Wished I had seen this before I published my last book. Thanks so much.
There are a few misconceptions about developmental editing in this video. The main one being that it's a teardown and rebuilding of your work when it's more of a shake it really hard and see if any screws fall out kind of work. I also don't think that's how confidence works either, but I'll leave it alone. It's your opinion and clearly it's working for you! Keep churning out them best-sellers, if it ain't broke...
Agreed! There are great points posed in this video, but it overlooks the editors individual style and the state of the manuscript itself.
Of all the channels I have found on giving advice to writers, this one is one of the two most helpful ones. So glad I discovered your channel.
Thanks very much.
Bold and brilliant stand on this topic.
I had considered developmental editing, but after five beta readers (avid readers not in my family or immediate social circle) read my first novel and loved it, I realized: If I paid $3k for a developmental edit would they still love it? Would it lose all the ME I put into it?
Thanks for your honest opinions.
Thank you. I’d say with five beta readers, you got yourself covered, my friend! :)
This guy oozes confidence, and this is primarily what he has to “sell“ so is it surprising that his perspective on editors is cautious, to put it mildly.
The major problem for writers is that they are not fundamentally editors unless they have a journalistic background, or have invested time and money in reading the books available on the subject of editing a novel. Even then, this may not be their major interest and would rather pass it off to someone more expert and better at it.
Many writers feel compelled, love the craft and want to develop through writing - not editing. Writing is their hobby - and while they might spend thousands of dollars a year on a gym membership or a sports club, and additional amounts for a personal trainer or a coach, why would they not consider it value for money to do so on a developmental and copy editor?
Unfortunately, many writers have little idea of how good their book is and beta readers, unless they have a professional interest, no idea of what is a well written book. Most current fiction isn’t well written, primarily because the publishers editor has little time to develop it, similarly with an agent who might, nevertheless, recommend an editor who might “improve“ the quality of a book. They might even suggest that this is a requirement before they would consider promoting it to a publisher.
Agents and publishers are business people - they want to make money. Your first book (or subsequent books) unless you have created a best seller Is in competition with many similar stories in your genre. Readers may not be interested in literary quality fiction, but they do want a good story, compellingly told. The benefits of a developmental editor, focusing on plot and characters, potentially enhances sales to film companies - which significantly benefits a writer’s profile and the sale of subsequent books.
Fundamentally, however I agree with La Ronn - It’s all about confidence, but a confidence that has been acquired through development of craftsmanship and technique. Check out the books available on editing a novel all on Amazon, as well as those that deal with the legal and practical aspects of a contract with an agent and a publisher. For about $100 investment, you may feel confident enough to save on the $5000 you might spend on editing. Acquiring the skills of a professional writer with mastery of the technicalities of his craft will give you all the confidence you need if your concern is to be a great writer.
But, at the beginning of your career, if you feel that you have stories to tell in commercial genres, then The cost of developmental and copy editing would be a wise investment. Not only will your book be improved by making it more marketable (arguably) but you will learn from the process with the option of benefiting from it in the future should you choose.
When it comes to publishing, you will quickly discover that it is a con game - “con“ - for confidence. Agents and publishers are gamblers Who back books that are like books that have been successful in the past, and pay high advance royalties for the right to publish them. What LaRonn’s video on development of writers doesn’t discuss is the confidence you will gain from a book you thoroughly believe in because you have considered, with a developmental editor, all the plot, structural possibilities and character development of your work. It may not be a best seller, or even repay your development costs, but it will give you the confidence to know that you have produced a decently written book of which you can be proud because it is as good as you were able to make it - even if it did cost you money for a little help on the way.
It is an investment in your career and in your future.
If you can afford it - it will be money well spent.
I personally think, if you are starting, dev editors are vital. It’s like a college course into novel writing. Maybe you should skip it if you know story very well.
A great alternative is getting a cheaper dev edit on just the outline (if you have one).
Difference of opinion. If you feel that it works, then that’s your call. I just don’t know that many people who have been able to trace an actual, objective sales ROI benefit from it.
Probably cheaper to take a community college course.
I think that it might be useful. But I think it would be even more useful to join communities or do the research yourself in understanding compelling story structure and trope usage.
And certainly a cost benefit analysis should be done. Paying someone thousands to tell you your book doesn't work might be less effective than getting another half dozen beta readers making suggestions for the same cost.
Thanks I needed this!! You rock Michael, keep these videos coming please.
Confidence is something one gains by doing, not by having.
My friend, what a PHENOMENAL job you did with this video. Congratulations!
thank you so much for this video. I was very very close to getting a developmental editor. you changed my mind on it and I'm confident again in my story and like it the way it is.
I really enjoyed this video. I have been watching a lot of other indie writers telling me that developmental editors are essential for publishing a good indie book. I have been hesitating about taking the plunge, in part because I have not been sure about how to find a good one in the area of my (now thoroughly revised and re-revised) draft, the steep cost, and what I would learn that would really help me, given that I want to write this book the way I want to, not how someone else wants me to. I do accept that advice can and will help, but after a certain point, what I write is what I write. I think what I need is 6-8 really tough beta readers. Just got to find them.
It's been a year since I've watched this video, and it seems more insightful today than the first time I viewed it.
Excellent video, Michael. I was on the fence about this one. Now, you got me really thinking. Thanks.
Thanks, you have changed my mind.
I really appreciate this. I have ADHD and dyslexia. I have a great imagination, but my confidence is not there at all. I've been researching developmental editing. I really appreciate this video.
Thanks for making this very helpful video Michael :)!
so agree with you! confidence is so important!
I mostly agree with this. There are a few details here and there I disagree with, but overall, the main point you made which I have found myself thinking is that: If you need someone to tell you how to make your story work, then this means you don't know how to do it yourself, which is all the more reason to put that work in, not pass it off to someone else. Additionally, you brought up the point that the editor will deconstruct that work and "fix it" but if the writer doesn't know what makes a story work in the first place (hence needing a professional to fix it), how are they going to know if the editor is (1) actually improving their story and (2) doing a good job? This calls to mind a writer who was sharing her story of working on a book for 10 years and how her experience with an editor and beta readers gutted her because at each turn, they were asking for these major changes. She admitted these changes improved her story, but also admitted each change was making the book completely different and after 2-3 years gave up on that story and moved on. What this story tells me is that writers can so easily let others dictate the direction of their story and major decisions. They will also wait months/years until someone tells them their story is good enough rather than push forward. A second story is about a person getting an agent and then spending 4 years waiting for that person to be satisfied with their book through multiple revisions that lasted 6+ months per round. Finally, the book went on submission and didn't sell. I thought, imagine letting someone monopolize four years of your time rather than you knowing what your book needs and if that editor wasn't happy with that, looking for someone else. This is all to say, I agree that writers need to know more about crafting good stories and be confident in their ability to do so. I disagree that editors can't help or life coaches can't help. If you're very early in your process, I do see the benefits IF you can afford it, have the time, and don't want to learn things yourself. For me, as an indie writer, I want to learn all things big and small on my own. If I actually had to pay someone to learn what I've learned in the past 4 years, I'd have wasted a fortune and probably learned 1/10th of what I learned on my own. But I know not everyone has that initiative and to some degree these resources can help.
You have convinced me. I agree about Beta Readers. Avid readers know what they like. I am in the last edits of my second book before I had it over to beta readers. I have to say that the idea of hiring a developmental editor has been going through my mind a lot. Do I really need one when I have beta readers to point out if my story is making sense? One thing I have learned from my first book is Buyer beware. Can't tell you how much that book has cost me over the years, from when it was first published in 2004 to my new revamped release in June. Seriously. I don't even want to calculate it all. To be honest, most of it is money down the drain. That said, I have learned from my mistakes.
I'm an editor and this is SOLID advice. Very wise.
Me too and I agree as well!
I'm writing my first novel right now. I think you just saved me a few thousand dollars. Thank you!
I bought a developmental edit not to boost my confidence, but to wreck it x) I think if you buy an editor's time because you hope it will strenghten your confidence in your skills, you are in for a rude awakening. The way someone in this comment section described developmental editing as shaking your work really hard to test whether the screws can withstand the disruption was really fitting, I think.
It's just important to remember that your editor's inputs are simply suggestions. You are the final decision maker.
Of all the good advice you have given this stands out as being rather unhelpful 😀 Writers needs a developmental editor for the same reason that athletes on all levels need coaching. Some people are just good at coaching even if they are not good athletes or writers. It doesn’t help you to have confidence in a bad story. You need to get an understanding of what works and what can be improved. A professional editor can help you get just that. Maybe you can get it from other writers but finding writers in your genre can be challenging if you don’t write fantasy, sci-fi, fiction or domestic thrillers.
I’m sorry my first comment on one of your videos was somewhat negative. In general I find them helpful and engaging. So thanks for sharing😀
Thank you for sharing your opinion and for being a subscriber!
Welp I’m down to only doing copy editing and proofreading for my book. Thanks ❤
Great comments. I can get a lot done with ProWritingAid. I think creating the story is the hard part, and that's where random notes and some kind of outline comes in.
I have to say that this is a breath of fresh air. My opinion was to get a developmental editor because that is what other writers suggest that you have to do. This is buying confidence like you say, and who is saying that their view of my story is the correct one? Thank you Michael. I appreciate this video.
Thanks Zen. Glad you found it helpful b
This is the first video I have seen by you. I love your style! I can really tell how invested you are in other writers. Love your content looking forward to exploring more of your awesome advice :D
Thank you!
Dude your my hero man. Was ready to go $2100 on a developmental editor. First time author
Such a great video, I wish I would have seen it before spending thousands on my first novel.
Just my two cents but what has also been helping me as I write my novel is sharing excerpts every week on a social media platform as well as receiving feedback from my writing club. This helps with two things. First, because my Facebook friends and writing club members are expecting an excerpt it ensures that I keep to my writing schedule. Secondly, it lets me know the interest level and where I have problematic areas in the story line based on the comments and questions that I am asked when something didn't make any sense to the reader. This has been my way of knowing what I need to fix and what things I am doing right. Initially, I had planned to share my manuscript and get people to read it for feedback once I was done. However, what I realized is that everyone else is just as busy as I am. Asking someone to read an entire novel is a large commitment of time so I run the risk of them rushing through it or never having the time to finish it. Also I have to say the regular interactions that I am getting as I share my excerpts have proven to be a great motivator to keep going even during stressful periods in my life. This movitation has kept me encouraged so much so that I no longer feel like a fraud when I tell people that I am a writer. So I agree with Micahel in that having confidence is key in determining how successful you will be with your writing projects.
Great thoughts, Rachel. Rustling up beta readers is definitely challenge, but if you can bring your audience along for the ride, that’s cool too.
This is an excellent point. I read about someone who blogged chapters of their book long before it actually got published: reader comments helped him to improve. I think "blog your book" has become something of a trend in recent times.
Just seems appropriate that I'm seeing this. I've sent an extract of my memoir to a script writer/poet. Initially, when they saw just a chapter, they praised my 'voice' and said they 'did not want to interfere with it. After reading the extract, they are now telling me there are 'structural and foundational' problems which need attention and instead of a copy-edit, it needs to be developmentally edited. This left me so upset as the word count is over 100k and I feel (to paraphrase what you say) that my confidence has dropped, considerably. So the next thing I think I should do is perhaps to go over and over and over it, myself and then take chances of handing it to a copy-edit before approaching the agent.
This is an interesting perspective. Earlier, I watched a video in which an epic fantasy author was reviewing her developmental letter, but said that not everyone would need a developmental edit. This intrigued me, since it has always seemed instrumental to the writing process. She also recommended getting beta readers if you are not using a developmental editor. I am not sure where I stand on this at the moment, as while I have a good grasp of writing technique (particularly in copy editing and proofreading), I am less polished with character development, pacing, progression, and continuity. Anyway, a great deal to think about here! Many thanks.
Loved every minute. Thank you.
Thank you
I really like your closing suggestion. A financial incentive is a good motivator. I've heard some authors say they use Critique Partners as Alpha Readers (To trade feedback with other authors) and Beta Readers (feedback from target readers) as a way to get a free alternative to a developmental edit. I've not had much luck recruiting enough Betas to be effective. After doubling down on my story structure and teaching myself as much as I can about it, I feel I need a new set of eyes on the material and a fresh perspective to firm up the level of confidence you talk about.
Yes, alpha readers are great. And the confidence comes with time, the more books you publish. As long as you do your best, get good, affordable editing, and keep learning the craft, you’ll be surprised at what readers actually say. A lot of times the “fear” of readers not liking a book is unfounded, and if you follow those steps the book might be better than you think.
Thanks! You gave really good advice! You saved me a lot of time and money and cleared out my doubts.
Great video!!
I think this is hands down one of your best videos, Michael.
Excellent video. I think it comes down to whether you have a thick enough skin and the means to pay for a developmental edit. I can see the benefits, but as you note, it could move the manuscript away from your original vision. If the writer ends up with something he/she is not proud of, it will be a disaster. One thing I would hope a developmental editor would do is work closely with the writer to the point that he/she understands the writer's vision and works within those boundaries. Give it a hard shake as one of the commentators says below but do it mindfully. If they do that, hopefully the writer's confidence can remain intact, and they will be more likely to take the recommendations onboard.
Very helpful. Thanks!
I really appreciate the different perspective. As I'm reaching the home stretch of my first draft I've been terrified of a content editor telling me it's all wrong. I've read a lot about story craft, but not all of it seems to fit as my book is the first in a series, not a standalone. I'm setting up a lot of stuff that may seem irrelevant now but will pay off much further down the line. I'm worried they're going to tell me to cut scenes that I think readers will find entertaining, but aren't as tightly related to the main plot.
Well done. You've earned a subscriber. Keep it up.
THANK YOU.
thank you!
Great advice! Thank you for this! 👍
My pleasure!
Very good, thank you!
Thank you too!
Wow, I love the developmental editing and coaching process while I learn to write fiction. It's taught me so much and made an anotherwise lonely journey a pleasure. I have confidence as a writer and both developmental editing and coaching has helped increase my confidence and skills. So I couldn't disagree more. Its simple, if you want to learn a craft well, then be open to learning it from those who know the craft....
Ok mr. Michael...your videos are changing my life! ♥️
Glad to hear that! :)
I agree. I look at dev editing as part of the craft. Beta readers can tell you enough to know whether something is working or not.
Videos like this make me recommend this channel to friends who want to write.
:)
@@AuthorLevelUp I use a couple alpha readers willing to see first drafts for input as fans. Its another confidence building alternative. They get to comment like flash fiction, following along as I go. I figure if I satisfy their desires with the book then I am accomplishing my pact with the audience. I also use the story grid method to check my scenes and chapters that they move and resolve. If you are blessed with a super fancy or two, it's a great way to build your tribe. Just be sure to thank them.
Very cool. Yes, definitely reward them and give them other perks too. Glad this works well for you.
Great advice. I learn something eveytime. Thanks.
That a developmental editor seeks to belittle or denigrate an author and destroy their confidence is the most bizarre statement, among many that I'd take issue with, in the opening few minutes of this video. Developmental editing is all about helping a writer find their own voice, and write the best book that they can write. Many authors start a book with a brilliant idea and huge enthusiasm but have little understanding of writing craft. This is no fault of theirs. Fiction writing is rarely taught in schools - most writing we do is regurgitating facts for tests and exams. Know the difference between various points of view (third person distant, omniscient, first person) and when to use which? Understand the necessity of a character arc - in fact, what a character arc is? Understand why head-hopping undermines reader engagement with your story? Appreciate why you have to unlearn many of the things you may have been taught in school about writing in order to create an immersive novel? If you know the answers to these and dozens of other technical questions on fiction writing technique and also, crucially, have the clarity of mind to apply those techniques to your own writing then yes, possibly you don't need a developmental edit. Not everyone does.
I'm a professional editor, and I specialise in developmental editing. It is expensive. The justification for spending the money is that a developmental edit really is a one-on-one bespoke tutorial on writing, geared entirely to your strengths and weaknesses, and using your own MS as the textbook. It’s like a writing course, but working on your own material with your own personal tutor, and answering all the questions you need answering. What you learn from a developmental edit will stay with you for your entire writing career, across many books, to the extent that you may not need this kind of editing again with subsequent work.
I'll leave a couple of clients to have the last word. "“I just wanted to say so much about how phenomenal your work is. Your developmental edit is absolutely brilliant." "I always had a certain dread about the idea of an editor, but you have turned that dread into an immensely positive and cherished experience." These are not the comments of authors who have had their confidence "destroyed" by a developmental edit.
Regards, Richard Bradburn, Partner member of ALLi, Professional member of the SfEP.
I'm a simple man. When I hear somebody going on a tangent about how authors are getting robbed of money for pointless advice, I hit the subscribe button. I look forward to listening to more of your videos.
This was really the video I need :/ thank you man. I am in the process of making the decision of developmental editing. Maybe I do need to be more confident in Gifted...
:)
Good stuff
I loved your lecture man!
You just saved my life with this video. Do you realize that?
Thank you. Wish you all the best for your future. Have subscribed already. 👌👌
Thank you very much. :)
I appreciated all the stuff you said about confidence. So true!
I'm really glad you brought up the scam aspect! Especially on UA-cam, I think it's super easy for someone to come on, make a few videos and seem like a credible source when really they have no educational experience.
I've always wondered if you could substitute some good beta readers for a good developmental edit or even by putting up your book on a site like Wattpad (assuming you don't want to traditionally publish). If developmental edits is about story flow, I should think the best eyes to prove that are your target audience.
That's not a bad idea. I dislike making a WIP available publicly, like on Wattpad, but there are other ways you can share with people.
@@AuthorLevelUp I think if you're putting up a first draft for some beta reads then take it down after, do your edits and don't put those on a site like Wattpad, it might work. Especially if you're small and only get , say, a dozen reads. If you blew up in followers/readers than yes - I wouldn't want to post it for free because then you're losing tons of potential sales. Even if it was draft 1 and you made substantial edits for the release, people may not pick it up.
Even if you don't publically post your own story though, it might be a good place to find beta readers that work for free and story swap with them. I know I made some good connections on there even without posting more than a few short stories.
What about book cover folks? Whom do you recommend?
Start with a designer in a genre you write in. That's always the best start.
Your right on the MONEY Mike, great video. We need to believe in what we write.
Informative!! I would want a screen play writer to read my novel for a developmental edit. I would want an editor to perform the "typo" revision notes.
You’re just awesome !
As a writer you need to know how good you are - otherwise finding out can cost you money. Reading authors work can teach you about spotting plot holes and The unpleasant experience of trying to serve others over the luxurious writing style with too many verbs and adjectives. Nothing puts me off a writer more than something as fundamental as this.
Instead of following the usual advice of putting a book away for several months before going back to it, I tend to edit incrementally, so that by the time I finish writing the book the beginning is but a distant memory - that will at least have had a superficial edit as I’ve progressed. Hopefully, it will at least be readable - in reality, it is going to take many more successive edits to polish the prose, develop the sections that are underwritten and sort out the mechanics.
Generally I can go through several drafts in this way before I am so saturated by the material that I lose objectivity and have to put it aside before I can go back to it but, in the process I say for myself be thousands of dollars that I might otherwise have spent on a development editor.
Michael talks about confidence in his video - confidence comes to not from the belief that you are a good writer without any foundation except your enjoyment in writing. Far better to know that you have skills as a developmental editor and copy writer as well as a proofreader and can be your own development editor.
The premise of this post is “you need to know how good you are as a writer“ - and this is a process that will teach you the skills you need.
There are, unfortunately, a lot of “successful“ writers who write successful books but are themselves bad writers. There is more to being a writer than the ability to develop an idea into a good story. There is also the ability to tell it well. When you can do that, then rejection becomes meaningless because you write for the pleasure of it and not for others reactions because only a foolish writer would evaluate competence on the basis of the size of his/her sales.
Thank you for this thoughtful post. I agree that you need to know where you “are” before you can improve. There are other ways to do this aside from hiring a developmental editor, like getting honest feedback from another writer in your genre or taking a writing course like with Dean Wesley Smith where they teach you how to figure out where you are so that you can get better.
Also, damn. Where are you getting your copy editors? I pay $8 per 1000 words.
Shop around, my man. Shop around. :) Look at the Books in your genre and you can find good references that way.
Ty Sir for your work here:))
This video made me sub
What if your book isn't fiction? Is a developmental editor more appropriate?
Not really. Same advice applies honesty.
@@AuthorLevelUp Do you offer consultations for those that want to be more efficient throughout this process. I’m working with editors at the moment and ready to finally be finished 😅
I am no pro, so, perhaps I should ask. Mx Adams wrote a book and retained the copyright. Mx Baker conducted the Developmental edit. Mx. Carter conducted the copy edit. Mx Douglas proofread the book. Mx Edwards created the book cover. Pub House Books published it. Now it is on a table at a bookstore. How many people put their name on it in such a way as to put their reputation on the line? Author, yes, cover design, yes. Publisher, yes. Copyright, yes. But independent (non-publishing house) developmental editors, copy editors, and proofreaders have nothing to lose by doing a lazy, unprofessional job. I would not put my hard work and reputation into hands that do not share in the risk or investment. Many of these developmental editors also make UA-cam videos about better writing. Yet, there is an old saying, "Those who can, do; those who can't, try to teach." Let the proven authors, who have several house-published good sellers try to branch into coaching and teaching.
I see a lot of writers course come with a critique of your work with the class. May not be a full edit but that sounds like getting the most for your money.
Depends entirely on the instructor and the content.
What I don't get about developmental editing is that you paid someone, oh, 2-ish grand to tell you what's wrong with your book. So let's say you sent them the next Harry Potter or something. Are they going to refund you 2 grand and be like, 'Welp, there's nothing for me to do here!' Hell no. You paid them to tear down your book, and they're going to do it regardless of the quality that was received.
I forget who it was, maybe DWS, but a writer once pointed out on their blog: "An editor is someone who writes YOU a check." Proofreading is all you really need on an MS, imo. Maybe a beta reader, if you want a story critique.
All good points. You’re definitely not getting your money back!!
I do think a copy editor AND a proofreader are essential.
When you give someone something and say “make it better”, it’s human nature to tear it apart. That’s a great point.
Hey Eileen. If you have a car that's not running well, do you go into a garage/mechanic and tell him to replace the engine? No, you don't. You ask him to diagnose the problem. If you trust the mechanic, you'll take his advice. When he tells you that actually it just needs a tune up, you've saved yourself thousands of dollars. It's the same process with an editor. When you go to an editor and ask them to edit your book, *you* don't tell *them* that it needs a developmental edit. They look at the manuscript and tell you what they think it needs. If the book is flawless and should be published tomorrow, then a reputable editor who is a member of a professional organization like the SfEP or EFA will tell you just that. Only a dishonest fake will try and gouge you for a fee for an edit you don't need, which is why it's extremely important to make sure any editor you contemplate giving money to is qualified, has trained, and is a member of a professional organization. There are a lot of rogues out there on sites like Fiverr and Upwork (there are genuine freelancers too, if you can find them) who will try and rip you off, just like the dodgy backstreet mechanic who's handy with the spanners but will happily try and sell you a new engine when all you've got is a puncture!
@@richardbradburn3016 I honestly don't believe an editor is going to say: Your book is ready to publish. Here's your two grand back. I'm not saying that editors are receiving perfect manuscripts and lying about it. No book is perfect. Mine are deeply flawed. :D I'm just saying... that wouldn't happen. The point you make where such and such qualified person would tell you to publish and refund the money is not (imo) ever going to happen. They've got bills too, and they scheduled you in. They would have to fill that gap after issuing your refund, which btw costs them a little extra money to do.
If you pay someone to fix your book, they're gonna fix it. Whether it needs fixing or not.
But you know, I'll use a copy editor as soon as I can afford it. ;) Editing is good. Just... I wouldn't pay someone to fix a book if I thought it was done enough.
Hi Eileen, Thanks for your reply. I can only assure you that I have told authors who came to me thinking they needed developmental editing that they didn't, and that the small structural tweaks I could see their book might need could be covered within the scope of a "hard" copy-edit at much lower cost. It's not about making money. It's about making books work, and if in the process I can make a living, then great.
I appreciate that all editors have different working practices, but when an author comes to me looking for editing invariably the first thing I say is "Can I see the manuscript?" Without actually having a look at the book I don't know what might be wrong with it. If I don't know what's wrong with it I can't suggest a type of editing. If I'm not in a position to suggest a type of editing then I can't a) ask for a fee, or b) schedule the job, because a developmental edit takes far longer than a copy-edit or a proofread and is (therefore) considerably more expensive. So I hope you can see that the "returning the two grand" situation would never happen, just as it wouldn't in any other service. To go back to my mechanic allegory, if there's something wrong with your car, do you take it to the mechanic and write him a check for two grand without even knowing what's wrong with the car? No, of course you wouldn't. You'd wait to hear what was wrong with it, the mechanic would quote you a price to fix it, and you'd weigh up whether you thought the mechanic knew what he was talking about and whether he was quoting you a reasonable price. Your options are then to go and find another mechanic, or struggle on with the misfiring car, or possibly try to fix it yourself. All of those options are open to you with your writing: go and ask a different editor, don't have the book edited at all, or try and self-edit.
It occurs to me that perhaps you have experienced a situation like this yourself. If you ever get a *firm quote* (not an estimate) from an editor who has NOT looked at your manuscript, then run a mile. I can quite categorically state that editor doesn't know what they're doing.
I came here to say all that Richard said honestly. This is not how editing works, and Eileen I don't know what back alley editors you have worked with, but you cost an edit according to what is needed. If it isn't needed, you don't charge for it. Of course, there are scammers out there, but in the actual industry with actual professionals, this is how it goes. It is also fine if an editor asks for an initial fee to assess and diagnose your work if it is really long because it is a service and you are paying for their time, but I don't see why this fee even needs to go into the 100's. Like Richard said, after they give you feedback and the cost, you decide if you want it or not. You're not paying for what you don't need. What folly is this? Who does that?
Developmental editing is done for traditional publishing, so there is value in it in the sense that you're getting feedback from a perspective that's more objective than your own. It's not really buying confidence, because a developmental editor has just as much of a chance to completely nuke your confidence depending on how extensive their notes need to be.
I DO agree that you can get that same kind of feedback from beta readers, though. For free, even, if you're willing to beta read for them in return, which I think is a fair trade off. I also agree that $3000 is SO MUCH to put into one project that probably ultimately won't make you back more than $100 at best... So at that point, you have to decide how worth it this project really is to you... Because you're most likely going to have a net loss. So I personally wouldn't seek out a developmental editor. I'm getting enough great notes from beta readers...!
You're the best. You should have more views.
Thank you. :)
You are my new favorite person
I always wondered about this decision. I'm a starving artist so unfortunately I'm one of those writers that has to wear many hats. This is too expensive for me at this point. Something to think about though.
Learn as much as you can about story development and write some kind of an outline. I develop stories over a period of weeks or months and then the manuscript is easy to write and pretty good the first time.
I understand your points, I agree with them and they are valid, but I wish you would rephrase some statements and drop some fallacies so people that need Book Structure Advice won't just blindly give up on Developmental Editing because "it undermines their confidence".
You make awesome videos, but this one need Developmental Editing haha
In non-fiction sometimes it's necessary. Is this advice only good for fiction or non-fiction? I normally get beta readers to save on developmental editing.
I’m specifically referring to fiction here. For nonfiction it could make sense as long as you’re doing it for the right reasons. The best example would be that you’ve never written a nonfiction book before and you need some help making sure the structure is as effective as it can be, for example.
I'd be interested in hearing about your NDE and how it changed your life. The before and after. Did you write a book on it??
I talk about it here: My Near-Death Experience ua-cam.com/video/I4El0IjmQ2M/v-deo.html
If I'm couching a writer, I would just make a review before the book is published. And if the book is published, I might just make the same review if the book is the same version as the unpublished one.
So you just spend money for me to make a review.
Looking at developmental editing this way, I think if you're writing in a peer-review field, you should do it. It's just another kind of peer-review. But if your field is unpredictable enough, just publish it.
The feedback you get will be more accurate than some editor dudes bullshiting for money.
You Rock!
VERY good points. AND in 2024 Chat GPT gives VERY good advice editing your book 20 bucks a month.
Hey Michael, what was your NDE?
Sorry-what do you mean by NDE?
Sorry, your Near-death experience.
Oh ok. :) I will do a video on it. I talk about it in my books.
Damn!! I didn't know it was that expensive!! No, thanks! My money is better on my pocket. Thanks for the video!!
Michael, I love your videos, and I know where you are coming from and I don't ever doubt your good intentions. However, it seems that you might be overlooking the importance of story structure. Some stories simply don't work. A writer that writes a story that simply doesn't work shouldn't be confident; it's a story that needs reworking. He or she should seek additional help. That's where developmental editing/story coaching comes in. I'm not saying you pay thousands for the service either. There are some fantastic editors out there that will not charge you an arm and a leg. Trusting other writers in a forum is not a bad idea at all, if you seriously vet them. (But not all writers are good editors.)
Perhaps Jim, but I do think that whether a story works or not is subjective. I would much rather let readers be the judge of whether a story works, not an editor. But I agree that there are some decently priced editing options out there-my experience has too often been that writers overspend in this area though.
@@AuthorLevelUp right on and write on. 👍
Great video! I didn't know you were a fellow NDEr.
Guarandamntee 😂😂😂
This is probably the only video of yours I've ever been disappointed with. It's a very slanted viewpoint of developmental editing, and I feel like it speaks loudly to you not having had much experience working with a developmental editor. I think that a lot of your advice in the video was solid and good, but I also feel that the slanted viewpoint was terrible short sighted.
Thanks. I always appreciate your feedback. This is definitely a controversial video, but I can only speak what I believe and let others draw their own conclusions based on what I lay out. If it doesn’t work for them and they don’t agree, fine, but at least they’ve heard an alternative viewpoint.
I disagree; I didn’t see it as slanted at all. He is allowed to have his opinion. He backed up his opinion with a rational list of things that supports his perspective. Then; as to not be slanted and to better serve his audience - he offered support for those who still believe a developmental edit is needed based on their own circumstances specifically he provided some rock solid referrals to ALLi and few other places where writers are much less likely to be scammed and where the developmental edit is much more likely to be of high quality and so on. Just because his opinion differs from the mainstream doesn’t mean it’s slanted.
I have seen developmental editors and others who support that perspective give their reasons without ever offering an alternative cons. Some of these editors have even commented on this video in a one sided way. I completely understand why. They will lose money of people get convinced they are not always needed. Micheal is giving his honest opinion and has nothing really to gain or lose by sharing it.
The other side of this story is that people who have spent thousands on developmental editing may need to feel justified in their expense so as not to be depressed about the potential waste of money. When some people call his perspective disappointing, I hear that in terms of they are disappointed in themselves for not leveraging betas instead or spending too much. But they are reflecting their own issue into him instead of proper self reflection. That group along with the developmental editors commenting here are more slanted in my opinion that Michael.
Wow. Jerry Jenkins said, "Don't hire an editor. Edit your book yourself. If you're a writer, you can edit." (paraphrase)
Very helpful info cuz I was considering getting a Dev editor.🙏however, my first book will sell internationally and be a best seller in Jesus name 🙌💯#speaking it in existence 🗣️💯#death and life is in the power of the tongue _proverbs 18:21😊
This is a good video +1.
Imma just ask my Beta readers (my friends) to be even more critical ;d
I think I'll stick with beta readers and a copy edit for my first book.
Wait a sec....you can make money being a beta reader? Sign me up! No seriously, how do I sign up for this?
I’m sure there’s some website out there that organizes it. If not, you can start one! :)
@@AuthorLevelUp lol, as for the second I'm a bit overstretched for time as is. I'll see if I can do the first.
you should make a video on how "Upwork" works for people looking for editors etc . . .