How MUCH OIL is TOO MUCH? Dyno Results!
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- Опубліковано 14 бер 2024
- @themotoroilgeek visits Ben Strader at EFI University to talk oil - specifically the four “R”s of Lubrication: the Right Oil, in the Right Place, at the Right Time, and in the Right Amount. So, is it possible to have too much oil?
To answer that question, the guys load the Expo LS engine on the dyno and run some tests to see what the right amount is, and what the effect of too much or too little is on horsepower. (The results might surprise you.)
For more from the @EnginePerformanceExpo make sure to check out their channel. There are over 200 videos made for motor heads!
For more about Ben Strader, check out @EFIUniversity1
To put the power of oil analysis to work for you, visit www.speediagnostix.com
To get Driven GP-1 oil, here's a link: amzn.to/3V3AqgP
For more dyno testing fun with Lake, check out • Prove It! Dyno Testing...
Who is the @themotoroilgeek ? I'm a Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers Certified Lubrication Specialist and Oil Monitoring Analyst (I've maintained both of those for over a decade). I also worked for Joe Gibbs Racing for 12 years as their lubricant specialist. During that time, we worked with Wix Filters (one of our sponsors) to test and develop filters for our race engines. We also worked with Lubrizol and Chevron-Phillips Chemical to test and develop oils for our race cars. Following that, I was the head of R&D for Driven Racing Oil. During that time, I formulated and tested over 50 products. We also worked with Cummins, Comp Cams, Oak Ridge National Labs and General Motors on various R&D products. Those efforts are recorded in peer reviewed white papers published by SAE International and ACS Sustainable Chemistry journals.
As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases That just means that I may earn a small commission, at no cost to you, if you choose to purchase that product from Amazon.com. It is a way to help support the work of The Motor Oil Geek. - Авто та транспорт
So as oil quantity goes to zero, power output goes to infinity! Draining all oil as we speak ! 😊. Interesting video!
LOL
Remember the duralube infomercials from the early 90's? No oil pressure! They drained their duralube treated engine off all oil and were astounded that they gained hp on the dyno..... they just didn't show the part where the engine went boom!
Run motorkote in the oil 😁
So, as power output goes to zero, longevity goes to infinity! Adding oil as we speak ! Very interesting video indeed.
Royal purple had a similar infomercial.
It didn't surprise me to see how much power was lost when the tank was overfilled, but it did surprise me to see how much power was gained by decreasing the amount. Great video
Thanks!
@@themotoroilgeek is the engine working harder because its swimming in all that oil and losing horsepower as a result?
@@ThatCaymanGuy Absolutely!
You get more hp with decreasing oil pressure because it takes power to pump oil. There is a sweet spot but you need a minimum of 10 psi per thousand rpm to keep bearings cool. The falling oil pressure with low oil is really scary on the first pull.
,,
1 1 /.@@themotoroilgeek
When I was in the trade, This young woman asks if if can look at her engine as it was smoking, lacked power and smelled of burning. She told me the story that she 'topped up' her engine oil. When I pulled the dipstick I couldn't see any level for a split second until a large drip of oil dripped onto the floor. I removed the oil filler cap to find the engine oil level just under the oil filler cap. She said it took a lot of oil to top it up 15 to 20 litres of 10w40 🧐🤦♂
LOL!
Did it run fine after drained and refilled it?
@phxrsx It sounded OK and ran fine, she didn't come back so I guess so. I was amazed.
Impressive it stayed that full after she had driven it.
@Pittaz There were lots of areas around the breather where there was lots of residue. It ran badly it wouldn't rev hardly at all- because there wasn't any capacity left inside the engine. I think some people are more suited to catching the bus
Back when I had my engine shop, this was one of the tests I did with my mule test engine. It was a 302 Ford with 351W ported heads that ran great. On a wet sump it did the same thing, about 70 PSI from idle up to about 5,000 RPM with 6 quarts in it plus the oil filter and oil cooler. (It had a deep sump road racing oil pan on it.) Then at 5,000 - 9,000 the oil pressure really took a dive down to about 25 PSI. But it made 512 HP @ 8,300 RPM. Added oil and the oil pressure stayed good up to 8,000 RPM, but lost about 35 HP as I recall. A few months later I was testing dry sump oil pumps and oiling systems with it. The best pump that gave the best vacuum also gave the most consistent oil pressure from idle to 9,000 RPM. Oh yea, the power was 527 HP @ 8,300. Plus, if you held it at 8,000 RPM for about 5 minutes, the power never dropped, and the oil pressure was steady @ 75 PSIG.
Awesome work ! Sweet engine ! 😎👍
An 8k rpm Windsor is a radical race cam only.
500+ HP on a 302 with ported iron 351W heads…
That’s pretty dang impressive
@@maximusvonce1381 Originally it was built for a vintage race car. Sadly, the customer it was built for died suddenly and the final bill was never paid. The person that bought the car from his widow didn't want the engine since he didn't want to pay the balance of the bill. I figured I would just keep it for testing things until it either broke or wore out. It never broke, but it was huffing some after about 3 years of on and off testing. I think it has about 400 hours of hard dyno time on it. Then an off-road racer came in one day when I was doing something on the dyno with it and asked to buy it. I rebuilt it to run better for his style of racing, i.e. high torque and less worry about high RPM horsepower. I know he ran 3-4 SCORE races with it, but never saw it again.
@@LoydChampion Sorry to hear customer died. Was he that old. Was it a heart attack?
That was pretty interesting. Thanks for taking the time and money for putting this video together.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Lake you keep teaching me more and more about making Horsepower. I was surprised by over filling oil changes HP. Thanks for the knowledge.
Glad to help
Just pulled my oil plug. Thanks for the tip!
Stuff the power loss, just always keep the oil level to the full mark on the dipstick. That way, the engine runs cooler, more reliable, and the oil won't get contaminated as fast. Running low on oil, to gain power is just stupid. Do you want to ruin your engine because of a little power gain? In normal driving, the engine has more than enough power to get you where you need to be. Don't overfill though, as you can cause the oil to foam, and actually starve the moving parts of proper lubrication, as well as blow oil seals out.
Exactly my line of reasoning !
@@Nellis202 Yep. To get the maximum life out of my engine is a million times more important to me than power gains🙄🙄🙄
You guys are clearly here for the wrong reason.
The takeaway from this video is the benefit of dry sump systems.
This isn't normal driving. This is a dyno test. Nobody is pulling their Camry or whatever in there to try different low oil to HP scenarios.
I have a story to tell that im not pleased with...
I've done many oil changes in my life but the first one I ever did myself I did very incorrectly. I thought engine displacement = amount of oil capacity. So i put about 2.75qt/L of oil in an engine that required 4.5-4.75qt of oil.
Man, i tell ya, when i first got the car on the street I was really impressed with the performance thinking "wow this is some good ass oil!" That is until after 20-30 minutes the engine bogged down and stalled and kept doing so...i limped it home and realized my mistake and added the correct oil amount. From that day onward the engine burned about a quart of oil every thousand miles. I had that car for many more years and it eventually stopped burning oil entirely for the last 10k miles of my ownership of it
Reminds me of a letter to the editor I saw in Hot Rod (or a closely related mag) in the mid-'80s. Maybe it was the April issue, I don't know, but a brand new Corvette owner said he changed the oil filter after ? 1000 miles, as the manual instructed, and the manual also said the oil capacity was 5 quarts, 6 when changing the filter. Soooo, he changed the filter, added 6 quarts, and the thing ran poorly, smoked, rattled and more! 😂 True story though!
my worst oil change was on my 2020 corolla hatchback i start my car and oil filter was leaking after 5km low level light ! and tik tik tik tik noise ! towing and restart again my oil change filter was broken ! noise was normat after the second oil change this is my last time ever after 10 000km engine run fine but im scare (sorry for my english im french ! )
Was it a painful divorce? 😂
@@bruceli9094 no because if you read the rest I kept the car for years to come and eventually the oil consumption went back to 0 (30-40k later)
Probably ring seals carboned up , until eventually the carbon was dislodged and the rings came to the normal position(usually at very high in cylinder temperature)
Eye opening! Thank you for sharing this!
You are so welcome!
Wow, INCREDIBLE result! Thanks, fascinating!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Need a window to see what is going on inside the pan with the crank, counterweights, windage, roping, etc.
I would love that…
Would love to see this too.
What is roping? Like a rope seal? Or snotty streamers of oil caused by tackifier additives?
You mean something like this? ua-cam.com/video/gxw3rLFlsTc/v-deo.htmlsi=-wVry1dbnbClTgGL
@@gregorymalchuk272 the latter: snotty streamers of oil.
I'm way more familiar with smaller inline engines. My own has a windage tray between the crank and the oil pan/sump, stock.
No mention if this engine did or did not have one. If there wasn't... boy, testing a windage tray vs not would be interesting.
Another great video! Would love to see a video on LSPI and how can motor oils and/or oil additives can help with that, on smaller displacement turbo engines ...or any engine
this is reassuring actually because I added about 1/2 quart of oil over in my last oil change and haven't been able to sleep since due to paranoia lol
Glad this helped
Every engines different but once the oil is high enough to hit the counterweights the oil gets airated and doesn’t lubricants the engine properly causing damage. That’s why they say not to overfill.
overfilling around 1 liter is not a problem to mechanical parts but it will cause over pressure in engine and it will probably later cause oil seals to leak
@@Techie1224true, but that depends on how efficient your PCV setup is.
@@tycobanditwhat is a pcv?
Interesting results, thanks for all the effort, this is really informative
Glad it was helpful!
Another great video. Im binging through tyour channel. Have a great week!!
I just purchased a new vehicle with a Turbo-charged engine. I am so glad I came across your channel and have watched a TON of your videos. Very informative and helpful. I catch some flack that I am going overkill because I did my first oil change at 750 and again at around 1600, but feel pretty good that I am setting up the engine for long term success (at least from an oil perspective). I owe it to you!
Sure won't hurt.
Buying a turbocharged car is your biggest mistake. Naturally aspirated for a long engine life every day of the week
@@labourlawact7826 Sure, having a turbo engine might mean less life. However, how much you lose depends on how good the turbo engine is. Somehow back in the days of the Volvo brick, SAAB 900, and Datsun 280ZXT, turbo power wasn't killing them quickly. The engines would still run after everything else fell apart.
There might be an argument that more modern turbo engines were a problem. Well, the VW MKIV GTI and Evo 8/9 could take the boost and have the engine outlive everything else, just don't turn it up. Well, I suppose it could also be because the rest of a VW GTI MKIV or Evo 8/9 were made of flimsier stuff than a SAAB 900 or Volvo brick.
@@skylinefever Yeah, I drove big V8 semi trucks. Diesels, of course, and the turbocharged ones did about 800 000 km before needing overhaul. The non turbo V10, used more fuel, and were absolute dogs in hilly country, or climbing a mountain pass. But...they easily ran 1,5 to 2 million kilometres before needing any major work done. 😁
@@labourlawact7826 That is interesting. I suppose heavy equipment is built to not be as disposable as a car.
I'm guessing you are in Europe. Most long haul trucks in the USA have inline six diesels. There were a few V8 diesels.
I think about how in Europe, many people had a VW diesel car. It seems like whether they had a non turbo mechanical diesel or a distributor pump turbo diesel, it outlasted the rest of the car either way. That in mind, a MKIII or MKIV Golf didn't have that much to outlast. I know Europe got a lot of non turbo and turbo BMWs, Peugeots, Volvos, and VWs that the USA did not get, but I know little about them because they did not interest me that much. When I think about cars the USA did not get, I usually think of the Japanese turbocharged gasoline drift missiles and rally cars the USA did not get. I suppose it was because my mom had a 1985 Nissan Maxima and I thought it was super cool when I was a kid.
Too low or too high of oil level is definitely bad, especially too low. I like having the oil level exactly between the two marks on the dipstick.
Right on!
Always to top level. For protection!
Gotta have it at the top mark bud
I recently discovered your channel a couple weeks ago and I’m totally in love with your content!! Amazing attention to detail on research, well edited, well spoken on camera and finally somone who is an expert on the topic they are dicissusing!!!
Can you please talk about motorcycle oils and how they are different than automobile oils and more specifically Indian Motorcycle oil ( 15w60). It’s such an odd range of viscosity of oils and I would like to learn why it exists!!
Thanks and that’s a great suggestion!
That was certainly interesting! Thanks. Great video
Glad you enjoyed it!
It would be interesting to see what would happen in a dry sump engine.
When the Corvette first introduced a dry sump from the factory, a lot of customers added too much oil. The tank would barf the excess oil, once enough RPM was achieved, into the air intake and contaminate the MAF and EVERYTHING downstream, including the catalytic converters. On non emissions controlled vehicles like race cars, the breather tank could barf oil into the engine bay, onto tires, the track, and sometimes hot exhaust causing a fire!!!
The oil tank would overflow
We are going to do that, but extra oil in the dry sump tank will not effect windage.
Don't forget, in a dry sump system, the engine has to drive a scavenging pump. That uses some horsepower, but not 60 HP. It really would be an interesting experiment. It could be, that there's even more to be gained with a dry sump system, than running less oil in a wet sump engine.
@@themotoroilgeekExcellent, when?
Hmm, I was always afraid that too much oil would burn the valves or blows seals, but thanks, there's also a power drop. I've had the oil changed only thrice since I had a '58 Ford and they always put too much in. Now I'm a 78 geezer, still changing me oil.
Back in the day, one trick performance shops did was to polish the counter balancers of the crankshaft to reduce power loss due to windage.
I have two older high mileage engines - one a 1977 Olds 403 and the other a 1978 SBC 305 - that always burn off a half a quart of oil after an oil change within 100 miles, then they'll run about 1500 miles before hitting the add mark.
My daughter insists on keeping them full or even slightly overfilled and I've shown her that being overfilled actually results in fluctuations in oil pressure at higher RPMs I'm sure due to "foaming".
Thanks for sharing!
If you aren't familiar with a particular car you can't always go by the dipstick. I bought a Mustang a few years ago that had an aftermarket dipstick in it, the WRONG aftermarket dipstick. I drained the stock 302W five quart pan and got a little over eight quarts of oil out of it. It ran ok and apparently the extra oil didn't hurt the engine, but the best part was that with the correct amount it stopped leaking oil out the seals.
Not to mention when you’re driving aggressively the oil moves around so you want the right amount
Always top content!
Thanks!
Great content!
This data is priceless. Glad you made this its own video from the expo. Great information.
Thanks!
Cyl pressure over Bens shoulder...nice! Thanks for another great vid guys!
Nice catch!
Another great video! Very interesting.
Thanks!
I was in the navy (I wouldn't say which country) and one of the ships I was post to had the tradition of filling it TWICE THE AMOUNT of the max fill line. So when the engine starts up to idle, the oil level should drop to exactly the maximum fill line as dictated by my chief.
Privately, throughout the short amount of time I served, I'm just in a incredulous state that the engine didn't develop any problems. But it always seem to feel slower than the other vessels when we're charging back to base.
Thanks for sharing
And the oil would be airated. Air does nothing to lubricate bearings.
@@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259 yep, complete waste of oil. I never fully respect my chief for that.
Is there such a thing as oil drag? The engine needs so much oil to create the film to protect the bearings over that is pointless, but the pump continues to pump pressurised oil into the bearings.
Marine specifications and lubrication are significantly different. Don't cross reference the 2.
Foaming (crank hitting the oil level in the over-filled sump) is what I fear with passenger vehicles, and certainly some race engines too. When oil is full of air, it doesn't lubricate near as well.
In this video, I'd say the oil heated up more the less oil there was, driving pressure down. I don't think the sump pick-up was sucking air (which also causes foaming). The drop in pressure reading is due to higher oil temperature.
The pressure drop was not due to temperature. As stated in the video, these heads have poor oil return, so they fill up with oil, which drops the oil level in the pan (thus the drop in oil pressure).
I believe the pressure drop is due to aeration of the oil caused by the crank and rods splashing in the oil, as well as general windage. Bubbles could get low enough, for the pick up tube to be drawing air bubbles, as well as oil.
@vincentrobinette1507 and @themotoroilgeek OK, oil return is too low at high rpm, so low oil quarts means the sump level must be dropping below the oil pickup tube inlet some, sucking some air up and lowering oil pressure by foaming that way. Would be nice to see if bubbles are on the dipstick right after a run, as this is how one finds out definitively if a passenger car's oil level is dangerously high. Passenger cars generally will let you go above the top line on the dipstick (varies, so not always) a little without the crank hitting the sump oil, basically the oil above the windage tray level.
My ‘69 Boss Mustang 428 had a windage tray. It was a SCJ with the functional hood scoop.
I looked for this comment. I agree the lesser amount of oil heats faster and will increase power over cold oil. They should have put a pan oil level indicator to see how much oil stayed up in the engine and how the levels actually change in the pan. And the actual oil temp which they didn’t.
Excellent video I learned a lot!
Glad it was helpful!
Good video! Thanks!
Glad you liked it!
I would love to see a video on a dry sump!! Please bring it on!!
You got it!
This is a known outcome… too much means crank sloshing ..
The crank is slapping the oil that comes out of the main and rod bearings and what "drips" down off the pistons.
More pressure means more oil going through the bearings. 🤔
@@hotrodray6802look up a diagram of a crankshaft, windage tray, and oil pan and think about what would happen if you overfill the pan. Might also be helpful to check out how and why windage trays work.
Learned something today thanks guys
Our pleasure!
This guy's like a wizard, very interesting and thorough chap.
Thanks for the kind words!
*Attention Ford Coyote Racers* : Next time you want to gap that LS, drain out all of your engine oil before the race for maximum performance! :)
LOL
years ago I did an engine replacement on an Olds cutlass cruiser wagon with a 2.5 4 cyl, pretty easy job, the salvage yard delivered it fast and I got it done in one day, with a new filter and 4 quarts of new oil, well the yard never drained it, it ran ok but with 8 quarts of oil it had no power uphill 30 mph was top speed, did not seem to hurt anything, but that is what happens when you rush jobs
Thanks for sharing.
What a great channel !!!
Glad you enjoy it!
Can’t wait to see your get together with Dave out in Centerville Utah. Looking forward to your video!!
Us too!
Hey Lake, thanks for the great, informative, interesting content that you put out. I would really like to see something on additives and supplements like tribo tex, and others. Do they actually work or do they harm the engine over time. Thank you for your time and stay blessed! 🙏🏼👍🏼
Great suggestion!
@@themotoroilgeek Thanks!
I always enjoy your show, also I would like to ask you if you can address transmission fluid replacement. Thank you
Great suggestion!
Drove with 1 liter too much some time, worked a treat.😊
You have taught me so much 👍🤗🏋️♀️ I thank you my friend ☦️
That's crazy how much power was lost just by adding enough oil to not lose pressure. Considering the insane amount of heat and probably foam created by 60HP being dissipated into the oil, I can't imagine that a properly designed setup would behave this way. It would be very interesting to see what would improve this setup besides a dry sump.
I'd think with some tweaks to the oil pickup, improved oil drain back, possibly a windage tray and baffled oil pan if you don't already have one, etc, there would be serious gains to be had not just in power but also in longevity.
We are just going to put a dry sump on it and gain all the benefits!
Ok over filling cost power. But underfilling makes more power. I didn't see that coming. It makes sense after you see it on a dyno though. We need just enough oil pressure to keep the the metal to metal contact from occurring but no more if we want to maximize power. Wow. That was a good video.
Thanks!
Interesting, Thanks!
Thanks for watching!
Wow... I wonder what another quart would do. Awesome testing!
Love the Spinal Tap reference!
Stay tuned for more!
Except that 11 was 2 more, not 1 more.
What about oil aeration? Is there a point it gets so full it starts to overwhelm the piston oil ring?
Oh yeah, if we kept running the engine we would have had an aeration problem!
Can't wait to see the dry sump results!
Me too!
Engine life is everything to me. I run a bit extra in mine as I drive hundreds of miles over a mountain pass with a load in the back of the truck.
Please do a video on friction modifiers, and hyperlubricants.
Motorkote is a good example of a product I really would like your opinion on.
Noted!
Yes please cover that and also perhaps What would adding Lucas heavy duty oil stabilizer do what are the opposite adding Marvel Mystery Oil what would that do @@themotoroilgeek
As always a well-done interesting vid. I know these vids take time and money, personally would love to see a comprehensive vid regarding GM Dexos R Mobil 1 Supercar 0W40 oil the science behind it, is it that good or just a money grab from GM in partnership with Mobil? The previous recommendation for GM's high performance 6.2L V8 was Mobil 1 5W30, about 1/3 the cost.
Great suggestion!
Seems like the 2nd. I stay think with your Dipstick Lad. Use what Scotty uses ...but Boss I thought All oils were just oils 😮 NO Numbskull , oils are Not all oils Use Castrol GTX Circa the 1980s ❤😊
I have lots of questions for Ben when I see him in April! Working on a package where this is one of the challenges to solve.
Good video and info. Always wondered about 1 quart over. I guess no problem.
I still would not overfill, even by 1 quart.
Some years ago I had a Chev truck in the bay, it just had an oil change in another city. Pressure dropped coming through a mountain pass. I confirmed it at 3000 rpm. Oil level was only 3/4" over full. Drained some out, all ok after that..
Yep. Small block Chevy engines with stroker cranks are very sensitive to oil level.
What about a small block Nissan like the Altima with a 86 by100 2.5 ...though I prefer a 2 liter Dr Pepper
On an aging daily driver with 280k miles, 2.4L Honda would it be best to run it at the max line for wear protection and longevity? She’s had 5w-20 Mobil 1 full synthetic (now high mileage) in her since I bought it 16 years ago. Would love to see how long I can keep her on the road.
Nope. In the middle of the dipstick is all you need.
4:20 "it is certainly better for the life of your engine" ( add more oil )
In the long term it would have an effect on engine wear maybe? We should ask the engineers who made this decision in the frist place. More research is needed
Awesome video 😁
Glad you enjoyed it
Heck fire! As any first generation Subaru FB25 owner knows, decreasing oil quantity is not bad. Mine did that from the factory.
LOL
An interesting comparison test. Unfortunately, the engine dyne is static and does not account for acceleration, braking and lateral load forces that would occur on the road/track and effect the location/availability of oil in the sump to the oil pump. To finish first, you must first finish: I'll bet you would have a spun bearing in a lap or two with only 5 quarts during real world use on the track and/or oil temps would go through the roof on such a low fill. A windage tray or even better, a dry sump, solves a lot of problems, but the latter ain't cheap for the average schmo. I hope some viewers do not get swayed to under fill (unless they have pallets of spare engines sitting in their respective garages). Keep up the great videos, they are a treasure trove of information.
Thanks! We decided today to get the dry sump for this engine to run that test.
AGREED!
I sense that this is a drag race engine destined for a sub 10 second car, so they would probably take the chance of sacrificing the whole thing to get more power, and just pray that they did enough of the wet sump fix 'tricks' to prevent any accelerative oil starvation.
Interesting for race track.On the highway I thought over filling would damage an engine.What damage might that be.
Overfilling is very bad for street engines. It can lead to foaming problems.
I've heard IT would hurt the catalytic converter with the oil fumes from splashing.
@@themotoroilgeek What if it is only 4-8 ounces over?
I usually check my sensor for the oil levels, considering the oil evaporation every 1,000 miles or so. I usually keep it either right between min & max or right before max.
Thanks for sharing
Good data 😊
Thanks!
I vote for Dry Sump demo! SOON.
Noted!
This is the *IMPORTANCE* of _Low Viscosity Oil_ in today’s world.., I’ve been telling people this for years!!
Thin oils promote better efficiency, more power, better cooling, more protection at startups, etc, etc.. Among many other things.
The key here is *_Oil Dilution_* (no long intervals) changing the oil on time before it gets too diluted.
My first owned combustion engine was a 1977 Kawasaki 400 motorcycle. I had a "friend" tell me that needed to fill the engine with oil until you could see it in the filler hole. I put an additional 4 quarts in until I got scared and stopped adding. I then drove it and got about 10 miles in and it stalled out. Another friend came to help me and we started diagnosing. Pulled the air filter and the canister that it sat in was completely full of oil. Pulled the filter and it was pouring off the filter. He educated me on how to check the oil, we drained the 4 quarts out leaving 2 in the engine, wiped everything down and it ran great for the next 2 years until I sold it.
I was always told back in the 1990’s you would make more power running a qt low. Cool to see that it’s true. Never did it in my car as a teen then because I wanted my engine to last.
I literally had half a quarter qt more in my car and the pipes started smoking.. Got scared... Lol
Wow!
When the oil level is over the "max" line on your dipstick when the engine is at operating temperature. There, just saved you 10 minutes.
Excellent video! I'm surprised the main seals didn't leak, or did they?
They did not leak, but we didn’t run it long enough to create foaming problems (which would have happened).
From the title I was expecting to see how much oil before engine damage. As in excess oil on the cylinder damaging the oil ring over time. Seems to be what's going on in the context of lawn mower engines being overfilled. Flat head valves, sideways cylinder arrangements (single or opposed) and having splasher arm "oil pumps". Still a cool video. So, part 2? How much oil before extended wear due to excessive oil level?
First one😂
Winner, winner, chicken dinner!
amazing video
Thanks!
Fascinating documentary! What I saw here is that if you don't run your engine past 5000 rpm, which is normal driving for most people, adding extra oil is a waste of money, and the normal factory fill level will be just fine.
Awesome test!! I slightly overfill my crankcase by about a 1/2-3/4 quart for track days since my stock engine doesn't have a baffled pan. I'm running a 4.6 3v and was always wondering how much overfill I can add without running the risk of aeration. The dipstick has a hole punched through it about 4-5 mm above the full hash marks. Do you know if how much the OEM's generally factor in for safe overfill variance?
I don’t know, but I would be checking your oil pressure to make sure it is not dropping at the end of the straightaways. If it is, the oil level is too high.
Dang! Eye opening for sure, guessing this is relatively similar to other platforms? Especially a sbf since the LS and sbf are so similar?
This one is unique because of the flat bottom pan and aluminum rods, but the lessons still hold true.
Lake I finally hit that like and subscribe button, I love stuff like this, I must be a geek too!!
Welcome to the club!
You should check out Engine Masters’ show on oil fill, very informative on how much oil is needed as well as oil pans with different construction & volumes.
You need to do a video highlighting thin oil with high pressure vs thick oil with lower oil pressure.
Stay tuned. We were working on that video today.
On my Subarus with the old style UEL sump the normal service is 4.5L including filter I have always used 5L. I have a mate who had a whole bunch of data showing the differences on our local track that he races and there was a significant oil pressure drop with only the 4.5L going around some of the long fast corners. Luckily the crank is very high so I doubt it would suffer the same issue.
in a dry sump engine will overfilling cause a lot of foaming if oil starts getting thrashed around by the crank arms and oil going up through pcv valve to intake.
Can you do a video on oil temp?
I like to do trackdays at road courses. If the OEM specs out 5w-30, at what oil pan temp should I cool down?
Also, how does oil temp affect the viscosity I should be using?
Is adding one extra Quart of oil to help prevent oil starvation during high G turns a good idea? Or is the risk for oil frothing make it a bad idea?
I think a video covering these questions would be a hit. 😊
Years ago. Factory add on dry sump package added 40hp to my SD-455. Cheapest HP add on, while increasing safety one can get. GM, Ford, others refuse to spend a few more bucks to add easy emission free HP.
I believe it!
Have always been warned of risk of blown seals on top of lost power by old autoshop teacher due to excessively filled oil. Always tends to stress me out passing the mark even by a little bit as a result. ;)
It would be interesting to monitor the oil temperature as well as the pressure. All that lost power with increased oil quantity would probably manifest itself as a significant increase in oil temp and if the run was prolonged would ultimately result in the oil breaking down.
There's many people who never pay much attention to checking oil levels on a regular basis and that's a shame because a vehicle's engine is the most important thing to take care of. As engines become older this is especially important as older engines commonly burn oil more. I had to top off an older SUV's level it seemed like every other month because of that reason. I make it a habit now to check oil levels on all my vehicles anytime I think about it because it's simple to do and can prevent major expenses down the road. No pun!
Keep oil level at high end below upper hole and you're good.
Have you ever tested transmission fluid ? Just curious as to how and when it starts to break down and should one go by manufacturers recommendations on changing it ? Seems it would be better to change it earlier rather than later 🤷🏻
i can actually see how you come to this conclusion. yeah it makes sense to me.
Thanks
I have always run my vehicles 1 quart over full. The oil pan is only over full when the engine is stopped for a while and all the oil has drained down. Even at idle, there is at least half a quart in the upper end of the engine. 50 years doing so and no oil burning problem, no leaks, nothing bad at all.
I imagine those big counter balancing parts of the crank and where the rods connect is splashing into oil bath and zapping up all the power. I run at the centerline of the stick on my pentastar and it runs well right there. Walmart always overfills when I took my vehicle there. Beyond the high mark and that definitely affects this engine.
Suggestion for video!!!
First of all I love all your videos .
I have a car with a Volkswagen air-cooled Type 4 motor from 1972 Porsche 914.
I have been told I should be running a high zinc special oil in that .
Somewhere I read that oil made for diesel motors has the same stuff in it as the more expensive
" racing oil"
Is this true?
I would love for you to explain the science behind different oil for older cars and what is exactly is in the racing oil versus diesel .
Thanks for the awesome Channel
www.motortrend.com/how-to/diesel-oil-in-gasoline-engine/amp/
Bearing clearances ultimately dictate oil pressure, the system as a whole develops the proper pressure, and the oil pump is there to provide flow. This test exactly demonstrates the effects of pumping losses. Nice to see this notion put to test.
demonstrates engine destruction due to air in the oil LOL.
@@TheGuruStudI don't quite understand when somebody mentions changes in oil pressure when itself it is dictated by the oil pump (which is submersed pump by design), not the amount of oil. True, crankshaft hitting the oill wil areate it, but nobody in the right mind will do that or compare it to anything. You also get oil splashed by crankshaft and pistons everywhere and force it where it was not designed to go. It is apples and oranges comparison.
This "experiment" would make sense to me if you had put a sump of larger capacity (say, one can take standard and increased amount of oil safely in relation to the oil pump intake). I guess there would be differences regarding oil temperature. It would take loger to heat it to working temp, but the amount of it would make oil providing better lubrication on the long run.
Heck, even testing by putting oil to hit a factory "min" and then "max" would make sense (might determine if there is some lack of lubrication at min level).
nada, virtually all oil pumps have pressure relief or bypass circuits designed to open & relieve excess pressure.. this ensures that extra rpms dont turn into extra oil psi.. clearances or extra can influence the amount of oil pressure but do not in any way dictate it. the pumps in your car would easily exceed 100 psi or more when rev-ups occur 4k rpm +. at 100 psi, you most likely would have oil leaking out the mirrors.. the regulating or bypass circuits control the psi limit.
I have seen some funny oil change things at the various shops i worked at. Now i wasnt doing a ton of oil changes but ive seen so many mishaps of people ruining parts and engines etc.. ive fixed many mishaps. One that comes to mind after watching this was this nice little old lady came in with her Chrysler Lebaron that she had towed in and said her son had changed the oil. Anyways the son had filled the engine completely to the top of the valve cover. Then a friend of mine ran across a similar thing where some knuckle head did the same thing to a chevy astro van. It takes a lot of oil to completely fill a engine.
I've seen a bunch of silly things people do from fluids in the wrong place to crazy bandaids and repairs people literally cutting parts off thinking somehow thats right.
I bought a jeep around 13 or so years ago i still have it, i bought it specifically because the body was good and it was the exact color i wanted same color as my first jeep that was stolen and i never saw it again. I didn't care about mechanicals on this jeep but it did run and drive and the guy said no leaks and talked it up etc.. but this jeep was bad like super bad the interior including the carpet was spray painted and falling apart from all the missing fasteners then mechanically this thing was rough. But the guy talked it up so much i thought it was hilarious. Anyways i bought it and drove it home and the next day there was puddles of every single fluid in my driveway like a lot of everything. When i drained the engine oil there must've been about 14 or 15 quarts in that thing even after all the oil that puked out on my driveway overnight lol. That jeep is very nice now ive been a lot of places with it and have been through a lot with it im very attached to that jeep even though ive had many different jeeps and vehicles this one is just special to me. But I thought that was so funny how the guy i bought it from was talking it up so highly and specifically said multiple times it didn't leak, i obviously could tell when i inspected it there was leaking but damn i wasn't expecting the massive puddles in my driveway. I haven't thought about that in years. The oil filter on that engine was so incredibly tight too that nothing would take it off i had to remove the filter housing and it took 2 people while holding it in a big vise to crack the filter loose even the air hammer chisel wouldn't do it. It was a orange fram filter not that it matters but that was the tightest filter ive ever come across.
That engine was actually rebuilt and the bottom end was in very good shape, i have a stroker motor in that jeep now but when i tore that engine down to inspect for something else i found that it had 2 different rear main seal halves in it. The guy i got it from had said he put a new rear main seal in it but i thought it was another one of his exaggerations because it leaked so much but the guy went so far to take it apart and only replaced the seal half in the main cap but not the half in the block they weren't even the same color and the sealing lips were completely different. Its funny what people will do sometimes, theres some people that just make things worse by touching it.
Boy this turned into a long comment reminiscing lol.
Of course this varies depending on combination, but I drained a quart out of my bracket race truck and picked up over a tenth in the 1/8 mile. The oil pressure stayed the same.
What lead me to try that was before putting the engine together, I filled the oil pan with water to see how much it would take before it overflowed the sump. That total was 4 quarts, plus the quart the filter takes would be 5. I had 6 total in it when I drained the quart out, so basically I just confirmed what I thought was going to happen.
Consider adding an Accusump and the additional oil.
A few years ago crewed for a very competitive Regional SCCA GT4 Datsun with such a setup which allowed us to keep the crankcase oil level relatively low but maintain stable high rpm and cornering oil pressure.
It was a wonderful compromise between a stock wet sump and an expen$ive dry sump system.
Yes, they are the 'poor man's dry sump' and many 4th gen LT-1/LS1/LSx f body road racers used those devices. 😉