You may notice this video is a choppy mess. That's because BBC claimed literally every scrap of footage from the episode. Rather than let them claim the ad revenue I've trimmed it all out and the full original version is exclusively on my Patreon (www.patreon.com/councilofgeeks ). My video on the issue of the BBC's support of Transphobia: ua-cam.com/video/aN4uc0HZrWE/v-deo.html My video on the BBC's response to complaints of its reporting: ua-cam.com/video/skh81N5lcYY/v-deo.html My short on why I'll continue to put up the note at the front of these: ua-cam.com/users/shortsHpwwzjzFXiE Shaun's 1st video, which includes some additional confirmed information: ua-cam.com/video/b4buJMMiwcg/v-deo.html Shaun’s 2nd video, which follows how the BBC is trying to dodge accountability for all of this: ua-cam.com/video/qfjTG6SVjmQ/v-deo.html Shaun’s 3rd video, following him escalating his complaints: ua-cam.com/video/fRn1UZ4fhdE/v-deo.html Shaun's 4th video, covering the BBC's response: ua-cam.com/video/3F7GW7Ro4OQ/v-deo.html Laura Kate Dale's protest speech outside the BBC offices: ua-cam.com/video/hBjGnWkwAjI/v-deo.html
Out of curiosity why are you not happy that Isaac Newton was played by someone not white? I'm glad you aren't unhappy about it. But why are you not happy about it? I care in that I am glad he was. Why aren't you also glad? Not saying you need to be glad for it, I'm just curious why you aren't.
@@myrecreationalchannel7181 I just flatly don’t have an opinion. It’s a thing they did. Ok. I’m not trying to avoid controversy, I genuinely do not have an opinion on this.
@@CouncilofGeeks But isn't it a good thing for minorities to get more roles, even if it is a small one? I'm no expert on the matter, but I'd imagine they have a harder time getting roles compared to those who aren't minorities. Therefore every role played by a minority is a small victory. Isn't it? I'm not upset, I'm just trying to grasp your perspective on the matter because I don't understand it yet. Edit: Basically you seem to me that you'd be the sort of person to be happy about it to at least a small degree, as I am. And the fact that instead you don't care puzzled me, so I'm curious as to why you don't care.
One of my favourite unsung brilliant parts of this episode is that the Not-Things were shaped by what they heard of the universe, and it turned them into bloodthirsty monsters, but the first actual creature they encountered, the Captain, was a repudiation of that. At the edge of the universe, without hope, without witness, and without reward, she sacrificed herself so that the Not-Things would never make it into the rest of the universe. She died to protect everyone else. She's a direct rejection of the Not-Things' assesment of "human" nature, and I like that the episode doesn't point that out.
It’s also a reflection of reality. The “Not-Things” say that love letters don’t travel that far, but there are more love letters written than death threats. The death threats are just so loud! They get heard. They get focused on. We rebroadcast them into the universe. Look at this awful person! Witness this tragedy! You look out at the world and you think it’s so awful! Yet, you look at the people around you and they are overwhelmingly kind. The tragedy is that kindness stays with you. It doesn’t get rebroadcast. It doesn’t get reported on the news or written in the history books.
@@HOTD108_ I did not. It's directly stated in the episode. Which does kind of reinforce that Davies doesn't get what being nonbinary is or preferred pronouns, because factually speaking the Doctor is just guessing based on biology, and doesn't actually know what pronouns the Captain used, which kind of ignores the whole point of the pronoun scene from the previous episode. But she is the pronoun used in the episode, so that's what I'm going with.
Great review, but I do disagree that 14 and 10 are identical, you can definitely see a shift in the characterization due to the extra lives lived since his tenth incarnation. Yes the surface-level Ten-isms are mostly there, the loud, the shoutiness, the whatting. But David plays some moments a bit differently than how we'd expect Ten to react in Series 4. He is more mellow, more emotionally available. More vulnerable. He feels older and I absolutely love that. His vanity and smugness has faded away, his confidence too. In this episode he admits that he gets things wrong. Take the moment in this episode where 14 was about to berate Donna for spilling the coffee. If this was Series 4 with Ten, they'd have a jokey shouting namecalling match back and forth. Instead, 14 takes a more mature response in realizing Donna is upset, corrects his tone and is there for her emotionally in that moment, comforting her. It is a fascinating evolution of the Doctor after his 11th, 12th and 13th incarnations. I think having recently rewatched Series 1-4 in anticipation of this special was helpful in noticing these subtle differences. I do however agree that there are not as many differences as I would have liked, as I think a new take on a Doctor with an old face is a fascinating concept to explore.
I think 14 moves differently to 10, I love the confident/relaxed stroll which seems more mature than 10 somehow. When he was effortlessly evading UNIT in the steelworks and again here exploring the ship, comfortable in his old body.
There are differences but I think they're still far too close to be different regens. He just seems like Ten with three more sets of memories affecting him, instead of a full, brand new regen with Ten's face. Until I see next week's episode I'm still holding on to the idea that it is Ten, despite what RTD claims as he does lie. The Toymaker has interfered, messed with things and it might give an explanation for the clothes changing, which I still want an in-universe explanation for because RTD's real world excuse is weak.
Yeah - it took me some time, but I can admit he deals with Donna especially in a more….loving?….way then Ten would have. It’s a subtle acknowledgment of growth, a hint of increased emotional maturity, and it’s sweet to see if easy to miss at first glance
I love all the subtle differences between the 10th and 14th Doctor. Yeah, they're mostly the same persona, but 14 is FAR more emotionally open than 10. More compassionate, more considerate, more kind. It's demonstrated in small enough moments that someone not paying attention can miss it, but for those of us who are paying attention, it's such a nice and interesting contrast.
Yeah. It genuinely feels like the same person with the same quirks and idiosyncracies... who's gone through everything that happened since he last had that face and is at a different stage in his life... Which is something I have to give props to David Tennant as an actor for selling. I never liked 10... He felt too human and too self centered... But I think I do like 14. He has all that optimism and kindness he learned from being 12 and maybe 13. (I say maybe due to how inconsistant her characterization was) As well as a little bit of the silly mask from his time as 11 peeking through, as he deals with how shaken he is from what has happened (much like 9 had to before 10). He almost comes off as a slight amalgamation of all the New Who Doctors and I'm definitely here for it.
thats exactly what i thought, he genuinely feels like a whole different incarnation to me and im kind of shocked most people feel completely differently. I think i actually prefer 14 because of the emotional vulnerability shown tbh
I love that the Doctor wasn't infallible in this episode, he didn't realize that Donna wasn't the real Donna multiple times and this villain was able to effectively use his own strengths against him. He wasn't incompetent to the point that he was making dumb decisions for the sake of plot, but the Doctor was vulnerable, which I think was lost a bit during the Moffatt years. I kept expecting him to smell the right Donna straight away or notice just by looking that her eyes were slightly too close together or something. It was refreshing to see a villain that could outsmart the Doctor in a way that was satisfying, but was still outsmarted in the end (thanks in part to a dead space horse).
Reminds me of that bit (ironically from the Moffat era) where the 10th Doctor claims to know that Queen Elizabeth was actually not the real Queen and just a Zygon, and after listening all the ways he was right about it he still ended up being dead wrong 💀
Funnily enough, two out of the three effects you liked were actually practical! The fake Doctor's long arms and Donna's double knee were both prothetics, which I think makes them feel a lot more grounded and real than some of the other effects in this episode.
100% the props were better than the CGI, and is also more in line with Doctor Who's history of hilarious practical effects for monsters - get outta here with that digital stuff disney
As an ace person there is nothing wrong with someone finding me attractive or even saying so in a polite way. I like to know I look good like anyone else. The issue is when they feel entitled to something from me. “Thanks but not interested” should be more than enough. Donna was just pointing out that she thought he was hot to a friend (not even in front of him) with no sense of entitlement or intention to act upon it. This isn’t a problem regardless of his sexuality.
I felt that way when (spoiler!)…………. Mel told the 15th Doctor he was beautiful. It didn’t feel sleazy or objectifying to me. I mean, she was right. Even the notoriously private and anti-social Tom Baker (the fourth Doctor) swooned when he saw a photo of him, calling him “a handsome young man!” and complimenting his “marvellous cheekbones”. (Then in true Tom Baker fashion, he morbidly declared that “these things become important when you’re near death”)
My biggest take away was that I think the doctor returned to this state because he needed the comfort of familiarity. He’s gone through so much since ten and thirteen put 0 effort into processing her emotions. This pitstop back at one of the most human, emotional doctors might be the doctor’s subconscious way of coping with this trauma and lack of sense of identity
Truthfully, once I clocked it was Isaac Newton, all I could think of was my college history professor's comment of "Though he's a fellow Englishman, I'll never forgive that bastard for creating Calculus"
Cold open served what I think is intended as a serious tool--a loop marker. They NEED "mavity" because as long as they're using it, we know we are inside a timeline set when the interchange occurred. Within that they get a cheap joke, a lampshade about famous people, and Tennant's lovely, calm acceptance of the idea he may be gay this regeneration, and Tate's teasing comment that it never seemed buried very deep to her. And the reassurance in the light, light opening that the show was not going to be utterly tragic.
I loved it. Not seen a "bottle episode" like this in a while. Just two actors (plus stunt doubles), on a set, only four characters and a story that deconstructs the characters' broken psyches in a really introspective way. We knew Russell could cook but I don't think we expected him to cook THIS HARD.
One scene I loved was where The Doctor described The Tardis as an eternal source of awe and fear. An object that can potentially be worshipped, then demonized, then a foundation for a whole civilization, and eventually something that outlives that same civilization. It was a speech that immediately got me to visualize The Tardis in a time-lapse sequence and it felt chilling. It also made me wonder if this had actually happened at one point for The Tardis. It's already one of my all-time favorite Doctor speeches.
On Thirteen's second episode, The Ghost Monument, the Tardis got lost on a planet back in time and became the basis for legends and a crucial part of an intergalactic race. That's what that speech reminded me of.
The Ghost Monument was what came to mind for me when 14 was telling this story. I wonder if it was in the back of RTDs mind when he wrote this. And I'm right there with you in how it conjured up a time lapse of the civilisation being created and then crumbling, left with only the Tardis standing (atop a dusty sunlight hill).
10 and 14 are so different though?! Sure, David tennant is doing similar vocal delivery and mannerisms, but 14 is more emotionally open and able to be vulnerable than 10 ever was. Where 10 would hide behind playfulness to avoid sharing his feelings and gradually isolate himself from everyone who loves him under a front of stoic self-sacrifice, 14 expresses his love and affection openly (to the point of surprising himself). He allows Donna to decide for herself to sacrifice herself even though it will tear him apart. He maturely changes gears when he’s shouting at Donna and switches to comforting her. And he even opens up about his own trauma when he thinks he’s talking to Donna. 14 feels like an older, more mature, less arrogant Doctor, which, of course, he is. And David Tennant’s portrayal of that difference is subtle but palpable. He infuses all his scenes with a sense of emotion (pain and loneliness and a fierce love) very near the surface that could spill over (and does) at any moment.
"My arms are too long" is -for me at least- very close to "Hey, who turned off the Lights?" and "Are you my mummy?" in terms od creepyness. For now, at least.
I really appreciate that you are one of the reviewers to actually get Donna's thinking on missing out on her family and not being able to get back and how scary it is. So many people ive seen its not in her character to feel like this and completely miss the point of the whole scene. Finally someone gets it Also i think the long arms and three knees were done practically
It's not in her character to show those feelings. A nuance people miss in many characters at times. Loved this. And The Doctor apologising when he figures things out.
I would say it wasn't in her character for The Runaway Bride, except for Wilf of course but she's grown a lot since then, evem with the memory wipe in place. Post meeting the Doctor, it's definitely part of her character to think of her family. For one, she didn't have a child back then and that can change someone a lot.
Totally agree. There's a change in Donna in that before she was going to travel with the doctor forever but now she has a family she loves and wants to be with more. It's a growth in her character and I don't get why other reviews didn't get that. As if they want the characters to stay embedded in one area. Again very good writing in just a few lines.
What’s really sad about this being all they got of Bernard Cribbins it means potentially a scene between him and Rose had to be cut. Yasmin Finney made a post on her Twitter after his death stating he was the best on-screen grandfather she ever knew, I’m guessing during the script read-throughs there was a scene between him and Rose that they did together. Sad we never got to see Wilf and his granddaughter interact
The cold open is something I know RTD made purely for the pure camp misdirect of the tone of the episode, very much feels like his usual "I really wanted to do X ridiculous thing" that's usually followed by "then we had to cut it down", but I do like the occasional time it comes through in the end result just for the sheer fun it brings
I do think the Fourteenth Doctor feels different. He doesn't feel as optimistic. He's both more caring towards Donna and way harsher and indifferent. The way he both kissed her hands and comforted her, and yelled at her very angrily for spilling the coffee feels like things the Tenth Doctor would have never done.
I agree, if you take a look at any of Tennant's original run and compare to the last two episodes, he really feels really emotionally supercharged in these specials. The 10th Doctor's personality was, while also emotional, much more subdued and he really kept to himself and buried his feels. Honestly, that aspect of the 10th Doctor was what made his character so compelling to me, so I'm a bit disappointed in the change here, but it isn't a huge deal since he is at least a different regeneration in this instance.
He also seems to be surprised at himself in moments when he’s more open, such as agreeing that Newton was hot in this ep, and when he’s speaking to that UNIT scientist in the last.
14 is 10’s personality but w the mental maturity gained from his regenerations since 10 that have basically allowed 14 to be 10 w/o his vanity & emotional immaturity bc he as a mind continuous being made that character growth & he’s no longer as war ptsd driven so he’s just got character development that differentiates 10 from 14
>kissed her hands and comforted her I have no idea if this was something that RTD or Tennant had in mind for that scene, but something about the way he did that just screamed Matt Smith as 11 to me. I saw someone else say that 14 feels like 10........but ten plus a little bit of 11, 12 and 13, with all the weight of their experiences, and personally I think that's coming through super clearly.
My heart broke into hundreds of tiny pieces when I saw Wilf. it was just so beautiful to see our beloved space Granddad on screen again and the joy of him and the Doctor reuniting and the love and affection and care for each other.
I didn't know what it was, but I clocked that whatever walked into the room when Donna was moving the weird rectangles around wasn't the Doctor. Something about the way it came into the room and slid down against the wall just didn't seem like the Doctor to me. No idea what it was, just knew that something was wrong. I love when a show manages to pull off something that uncanny so well.
That "Are you okay" scene hit me as a call-back to Forest of the Dead after the Doctor had just seen River die and Donna was separated from the soulmate she'd found, the "Are you all right?" exchange. I mean one key difference between Ten and Fourteen is that the Doctor is much more open about his feelings now. And you see it here, because the "I'm always all right" bluff turns into "I will be." He admits he loves Donna. He admits he can find people hot. He admits he errored and let half the universe die. The walls of hubris that caused him problems before are lowered and he's more honest about what he's going through, more willing to be seen as a fallible being who makes mistakes.
I can't say i LOVED this one, but the horror when it dawned on me "that's not the Doctor...." The creepiness of the Not Things was next level. The expressions, their ideas and perspectives. They feel tremendously VIOLATING in a way other shapeshifters on this show have never have. For a moment, I felt the stare of Kilgrave again. These are beings that will take everything from you.
I felt like she is lying. And it’s more like something the show would do. That “big space brain” line really feels like an awkward joke to ease the tension and close the topic rather than a genuine explanation yet with enough ambiguity that you can feel it both ways.
This was the type of episode that I was terrified wouldn't be possible since the reboot, I was really worried with all the new money behind the show that it would just be all the bombastic type of episodes, so I absolutely love that this episode exists
I love that you too noticed the similarities with Midnight, when the airlock was first mentioned I went "Midnight". And yet it's clearly not the same story, it managed to capture the essense of what I loved about Midnight but still do something new and interesting with it, make a different story with similar elements. This episode was great!
I get the issues with the special effects and visual horror, but it really worked for me. It terrified me probably more than was rational. The idea of someone you trust and feel safe around suddenly turning into that really got inside my head, it felt like something out of a bad dream. Incredible.
ropey visuals were all over first 4 seasons of the rebooted series... never bothered me. The Daleks looks stupid but its fine... its DR who... bit o jank is fine... just give us good stories like the Dr and Vincent... I STILL CRY at the end EVERYTIME
Some of those effects were some of the scariest the show has done imo (I agree the massive inflated ones were a bit much and the subtler ones like the arms, were better, but that whole chase scene with them warping as they went had me exclaiming the whole time)
@@kellygingrich4302 The jaw dropping open and when bent backwards through his legs stand out as ones that really didn't land right, but I liked the majority of them and the chase scene was very high tension for me as well. Not only were they constantly close to catching up, giving a sense of real danger, but the way they were warping like that because they don't understand shape or size really drove in the idea that these are NOT human and you can't apply human logic to them. Later as they assimilate better they start to feel more human, but at that point they felt completely impossible to relate to. (Although I never really notice when effects are bad, so it could just be that better quality ones would make more of a difference than people think.)
Two notes on this one 1) when they first landed and the Doctor seemed somewhat cheerful my spouse said, “oh, you haven’t seen Event Horizon have you” and 2) I do find it interesting that we’ve done the glass wall divide in two consecutive episodes. The first time the Doctor is forced to confront what he had done to Donna, and in the second both of them had to confront themselves.
I mostly agree with you about 14, but I think the main difference is that he's acts older and has seen / done a lot since being 10. He also seems to share his emotions vocally more than 10 did. That said, he shared more than 13. On the Flux, I think it's telling that I forgot half the universe was destroyed until this episode...
Regarding The Flux, it wasn't just you, Chibnall seemed to have left it in a limbo for all of us; never stating if it had been restored or not (not even Thirteen or her companions brought it up again). Its only now that RTD has confirmed it stayed destroyed and its weighing on the Doctor's mind. A sigh of relief to have the loose end finally tied, a credit to RTD that he worked it into this episode with just a few lines.
I can't say I thought much about Sir Isaac Newton's casting, but I did get hung up on his wardrobe. I couldn't help thinking "Was pre-fame Newton a spoiled wealthy aristocrat?" Cause damn those were expensive looking clothes for his time.
His family was at least reasonably well off, but he had some tensions with his mother. So he got the middle/upper middle-class upbringing as well as the joy of working through college (he did go to a fancy schmancy college on a family member's recommendation, so he also got nepotism). He was at least wealthy enough that he was able to escape from the plague to a family member's countryside residence. Which is where this scene took place.
I don't quite see the issue with Donna's comment on Isaac Newton. She was gossiping with her friend. Had she flirted with him or made that exact comment in front of him, I'd see the issue, but he wasn't in the room. Given Donna's marital status, I don't think we're supposed to believe she's actually interested in him.
I think I expressed myself badly on this because ultimately I don't feel weird that Donna said it... I felt weird that RTD wrote it and put those words in her mouth.
Yeah, just Donna being gossipy - that's already WELL established. (though I DO think the cold open was blah and unless they needed it for a specific mativty reference later on, I don't see the point of Isaac Newton being in a scene)
I actually liked the cold open - I thought the actor who played Isaac Newton’s delivery was really funny. I also like that it has a different tone from the rest of the episode because I feel like it makes the shift to a scarier atmosphere more jarring and effective
I absolutely loved the cold open! I didn’t care that it had no baring on the episode. I love it when stories are allowed to just have a fun character moment. It makes it feel more real to me. Not every single moment is integral to some bigger story nor does it need to be.
the cold open though : could be fun if it was the Tardis disappearing, they wander... they start talking with the Not-Things and they notice they arent' their friend... CUT TO CREDITS !!!!
This episode was incredible. It's an instance of RTD doing the trifecta; the plot, character, and thematic writing here were fantastic. The last episode being about the self also plays a role here, as there are "copies" of the Doctor and Donna as well. Really clever continuance of the last episode. The theme is also less obvious here than Star Beast, but still pays off in spades if analyzed. The idea of some problems having to slowly be dealt with instead of in an instant is here, as the enemies had to be defeated through a slow process, and over thinking actually made them more powerful. This ties into the Doctor having to deal with what happened in The Flux. There's even the clever line at the end when Donna asks whether he'll be okay, and he says he will be "in a million years." Meaning slow healing is better than fast answers. Really great stuff. Also the song "Wild Blue Yonder" being said to be a war song, and Donna saying she thought it was jolly hits on the idea that 2 things can be true at once, while the villains only view things in one way, like when they said the universe was pure "war." Again, there's a lot here. Lol
24:20 So I kind of felt like Donna DID retain those memories, but didn't want to force him into the conversation. It's her saying she's there for him when he's ready to talk about it, but not pushing too hard.
I think the problem is that there's just no time in one remaining episode for Donna and the Doctor to do justice to that conversation and that's why it was written that she can't remember it. I would love her to address 12 having the same face as Caecilius from Fires of Pompeii as he and his family were only saved due to Donna begging 10 to do so, but again, I just don't think there's enough time in one last episode to dedicate to something like that. Maybe Big Finish.
i personally notice a difference between 10 and 14. I recently rewatched 10’s run and I found that he was pissing me off a LOT more than he did on first watch because of how cocky he acted and how much of a god complex he had. which, yes I KNOW, is part of his overall arc in series 4, culminating in Waters of Mars. But those parts really made me like his doctor less on rewatch. So having him come back in these specials after learning from that arc & all of the things he’s been through since, I can REALLY notice the difference. He acknowledges that he DOESNT know everything, that he can’t actually DO everything, that he isn’t infallible. It’s very refreshing and he’s much more enjoyable for me as 14 than he was as 10. That’s why I really appreciated the waters of mars for calling him out on this & showing the consequences of his own hubris.
According to the behind-the-scenes footage the big arms and Donna's extra leg thing were prosthetics, which is probably why they're better than the jaw drop and puddle effects
We also have only had 2 of the three dialogue scenes where we think she's gonna die from the trailers, I haven't clocked the "I don't know if I'm going to be able to save your life this time" yet...
@chrisprescott9396Good writers don't kill or save characters based of how much they like them. They do it based of whether or not it makes the story better.
As someone who's only really been a part of this fandom since just before Series 9 aired, watching this episode (in particular *re*watching it on my own after seeing it with my family the first time) and then coming online to see the reaction to it gave me the same feeling as after I saw Heaven Sent, Oxygen, and World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls - the feeling that I'm witnessing Doctor Who history, an episode that's going to be discussed as one of the show's best for YEARS to come. It's a feeling that I've really, really missed these past six years and I'm SO happy to have it back.
I love that the Doctor is much more focused on the aftermath of the Flux than on the personal drama of the Timeless Child. It’s absolutely who he is. The Doctor has decided the TC stuff doesn’t matter, but the destruction of the Flux that does.
@@xenon8117well being a careless hypocritical asshole with people issues is also a character. Not a good character, but… i am actually curious to see if Big Finish does something with thirteenth and I really hope they will actually explore the character she ended up being and give depth to her flaws, probably biggest flaws of a doctor in newho, rather than just making her an average hero she was supposed to be
I dream of Colin Baker getting a 1 minisode regenration between David Tennant's 14th and Ncuti "Shody" Gatwa!!! "Degenerates! 10,000 years of absolute power that's what it took indeed for Galifrey to be really corrupt! I was right! Damn carrot juice!!" and at the end Ncuti comes in the brain of our favorite timelord.
Maybe mavity was a breadcrumb. The Doctor says gravity in a conversation with Donna towards the end. Donna corrects him and he says mavity. So maybe there is a purpose for that opening scene besides being funny.
I’m sorry but I loved the cold open I found it hilarious. The Mavity running joke made me laugh every time it was brought up and I genuinely hope gravity is referred to as Mavity for the rest of the show. Also I feel the cold open was included for extended media to have a gap to tell extra 14th Doctor stories. I would be surprised if they is not at least one story in a comic or novel that told a story in this time 😂.
I would like to believe that too, but Donna mentioning Isaac Newton on the spaceship implies that they were only just up in that apple tree. But to be honest a better place would be before the beginning of The Star Beast, the TARDIS just appears in Camden with no explanation, and we had the Children in Need special, so there's a gap there for it.
@@toasterroast7678 You also need a gap with both Donna and the Doctor together. If you need a super thin reason to explain that away, the other adventures could be before the Isaac Newton moment. It doesn't need to make *much* sense. You just need there to be a gap where two events aren't concretely one after the other.
People keep saying that the new David Doctor doesn't feel distinctly different from 10, but there are subtle changes.. He kisses Donna's hand a lot - which is very much a Matt-thing to do. He holds her hands very closely to him, reminds me of 12 and Clara. He's also a little more easy with his "I love this... I love that" which is a bit Jodie. It makes sense that he kind of reverts back to his old personality. He has that old face, and that old friend, so it feels familiar so... Habit. He's going to fall back onto that, but he can't help who he has been pulling him in a few new directions. I think he should have had his actual voice though - that would have just given it a different flavour
At first I thought him using his real accent would be a bad idea but actually thinking about it, the idea has grown on me, may have made more of a distinction between 10 and 14, not just the subtly emotional differences that we've been spotting. It could be explained with some wibbly wobbly writing about how 12s accent has leaked though to this regeneration or some such...
I am convinced (headcanon, to be confirmed ;) that Donna actually does know everything that happened in the past 15 years, same as Copy Donna. And that she only pretended to not know to let the Doctor tell her what he wants to tell her himself and on his own terms. To respect his privacy and not make him feel exposed, so to speak. This is what I saw in Catherine Tate's performance. Loved it
My case for the cold open: the ‘Wild Blue Yonder’ song comparison. Donna’s choir mistress insisted it was a jolly, happy song…when in fact it was about war and loss and death. Everyone assumed (or chose to believe) it was a happy, heartfelt, comfy thing…when in fact, the true horror was bubbling beneath the surface the whole time. The episode began with whacky japes and shenanigans, the ol’ Doctor and Donna magic, a big bright exciting spaceship…and then, gradually, the true horror began to manifest. At least that was my reading 😅
This was an astonishingly brave story to tell in a Special. Specials tend to aim toward a more broad appeal than a typical episode. They are spectacles. People who don't watch Who regularly watch the Specials. And these ones specifically are part of reaching a new audience on Disney+. This was the exact opposite of what I ever would expect for a Special on Disney+. There were pretty much just two characters. It is straight up claustrophobic horror (and brilliant in making such a big ship feel so small). This was nightmare fuel. This was as weird as Dr Who gets. And it was pretty much all character work. A focus on the character and personality and relationship between these two characters that a lot of viewers just met for the first time last week. It is also a Bottle-episode. If this was intentional to put more of the budget into the first or the third, or just to prep new viewers to the concept these kind of episodes exist and often are among the best in a season. There was a moment which really showcased how Dr Who (as a franchise) is different than anything else. A common trope in evil-twin stories I the moment of "How did you know I was me and they weren't?" Usually there is some thing that proves who the real best friend is, or they trick the evil twin. Sometimes there is a twist that they didn't and just got lucky. They spent the whole episode doing this, and it just made the Not Things smarter. That alone is a big change to this trope. The Doctor immediately realizes this, and rather than waste time he picks a Donna at random. Not because he guessed; but because he knew the only remaining differences would be so subtle only the TARDIS scanner could tell. So the plan was always to return if he had the wrong Donna. Most heroes would have trouble doing this; even more pragmatic ones, the pragmatic one are the ones that just guess. The Doctor does this all the time. He often seemingly abandons companions like this, and doesn't explain ("I'll explain later") But it isn't because he's calous or mean. Even though Donna is scared out of her mind, he knows she is brilliant and strong and can handle herself. He wins by not playing the game. This whole episode shows us all the things Dr Who is that a special usual cannot. And as an aside; if this were a Moffat episode, by the end there would have been thousands of Not Things and a 5 minute monologue ending in "I'm The Doctor." I think the Mavity situation may be plot-relevant to the next episode. It could be one of those things that the TARDIS smooths over in the time stream once it has repaired itself. The fact The Doctor started calling it gravity again and Donna had not quite caught up yet may be an indication of that. Tells us the TARDIS is repaired, and it can "fix" minor changes. Meanwhile is a good example of the kind of humor in this show. But it also could be the reason things are suddenly so chaotic when they get back. If it is, then it makes sense as a cold open. If it isn't, then I agree it was very out of place. A light hearted open does juxtapose well with what we are about to get; but if it is completely unrelated to anything at all, it is really stupid. It would be such a waste of Isaac Newton. Even from a "realism" standpoint, there is a lot of history we have wrong, and a lot of white-washing. We only have drawings and paintings of him. Wigs and face powder were the norm. And it is definitely common for people born of mixed race to hide it, or have others hide it. Plus, this is not our universe. And the universe has been changed a lot, especially recently. But honestly? Who cares? The guy was good in the role, and that is what matters. Plus this is the same show that made the Queen black. Future Queen, and different showrunner; but it has always tried to push these kind of boundaries within the limit they can get away with. If they gave us Liz 10 in the 70s, the show would have probably been canceled; but I'm sure they wanted to do stuff like that. This philosophy is baked into the show; but limited by the sensibilities of whatever very British white executives might be around at the time. This is just where Davies wanted to take the show and couldn't. I expect we will see more POC in the otherwise very white history the show explores. They are actors. In Star Trek Wrath of Khan, Ricardo Montalban is clearly aged out of the role of the immortal he is playing. Sometimes we joke about it; but ultimately we accept he is playing a character that looks the same age as his crew, even if he doesn't. This is that. Guy is pretty good in the role. That is all that matters. Historically TV and movies have done this the other way around (white actors as non-white characters), and we are going to need a lot of black Isaac Newton's before things are fair.
This episode reminded me of Hartnell for some reason. I guess the concept of them landing on some random spaceship gave me Sensorite flashbacks. Plus, I could see that era getting a whole six episodes out of this story. Plus, now that I think about it it is also somewhat similar to The Edge of Destruction.
The Reason the first 2 effects worked the bests (The long arms and the double jointed leg) is becuase they actually did them practially unlike the other effect in the episode, they better interact with the environment around them and look a lot more real (becuase they are) and becuase of that more unsettling and creepy
This really felt like a taste of how different Russell's new Doctor Who will be compared to his first era! Absolutely incredible, I was on the edge of my seat the entire time and it really felt like something Doctor Who has never done before, sure certain aspects are similar to previous episodes but the way it is done is wholly unique and NEW and new is what I want from RTD2 and this delivered that in spades and makes me so much more excited for Ncuti's era! And I'm surprised how much the events of Flux and the Timeless Child affected this episode, I thought we would just be getting some small references but those things actually played quite a big part and we see how all that has affected the Doctor, and I love that!
I loved this episode. Two solid entries so far in the specials. I was very skeptical of RTD coming back at first, and these two stories have sold me on him. Having the Doctor and Donna together again is pure magic. And I was right there with you on the, "oh no, Donna might actually die!" because I could see it happening with another showrunner. And having the not-Thing Donna running around on Earth, in the middle of all that, would just have been too much. While I'm sad this scene with Wilf is all we have for the specials, I am so, so grateful that Bernard Cribbins was able to come back and film even the one scene. It was beautiful, and made me choke up a bit. Just getting to see the Doctor and Wilf reunite - that grin, the hug, the "I knew you'd find a way to fix things in the end".... I loved it.
This story was a lot like Midnight, yes, but even moreso it reminded me of the 8th Doctor audio Scherzo. A two-hander with him and Charley, dealing with their issues after he gave up his life to save her and she opted to not be saved anyway, put herself right in the other universe with him.
Last episode was nostalgia. This one is cold and creepy. My biggest hope for the next episode is that it does both. Nostalgia to really finish off the anniversary celebration, and a little darkness now that the Toymaker is involved
I thought it was nonlinear at first too!! When Donna first came into the room with the Doctor and said she was cold, I thought her delivery was strange, but brushed it off until the Doctor said "My arms are too long" in that same emotionless, yet almost blase tone. Legit sent chills down my spine when I realized we were getting a proper scary episode. Of course, the scene with them warping and growing while chasing Donna and the Doctor was a bit silly, but I think the weight and tension and threat of the rest of the episode helped make up for that. Definitely a proper scary episode, up there with Midnight and Blink for me.
I do like very much the way that Tennant's Doctor represents a calm centre around which 42 minutes of story revolves, even when he is panicing. I find the more manic Doctors, especially Matt Smith in his later period, a bit wearing in this regard. The pace of the episodes is often fast enough without the lead actor bouncing off the walls.
What if the Doctor *is* half human, and that's why she got left behind at the gate where Tecteun found her? Her family went back through, but either it didn't work for her, or the other side turned out to be something she couldn't survive. And Eight remembered, just briefly, because his memory was so messed up in that story, but the memory was suppressed again almost as soon as it surfaced. That's why the Doctor keeps coming back to Earth, because subconsciously they know their heritage is there, the only part of their heritage they can reach.
I'm so happy rn Spoiler Warning This is the best doctor who episode since twice upon a time. Its a solid 9/10 story that I have missed for so long. After the dissapointment and frustration of the previous episode its so great to see an episode, especially an experimental episode that actually works! This episode reminds me of listen in a lot of ways, the experimental conceit and the idea of trying to unfold a mystery to which most answers would be unsatisfactory, yet both episodes pull off good solutions. The horror was extremely well executed and the antagonists were very creative and the right combination of camp and silliness. The whole conceit is very interesting and executed very well. It is understated and small scale in all the right ways. The corridor does kinda look a bit weird but the effects apart from that are all excellent. Also I love that the climax is just running down the same corridor lol. This touches into cosmic horror to some extent and since its probably my favorite genre of horror it worked very well. I love the scene where 14 remembers the flux and somehow in 1 scene I feel 1000x more than I did during flux. I initially did find the 15 years line weird, but immediatelty realised it was with respect to Donna; This makes the 1 million years wrt Donna hit a lot harder because The Doctor has experienced thousands of years of pain(depending on how you count heaven sent it could be said to be in the billions); Yea it all hurts a lot more. Oh small nitpick(kinda); I dislike the advertising of this episode as 'Farther than they have ever gone' considering Scherzo definitely and Heaven Sent in terms of the unexplanability of it all would both definitely place higher. What a nice back to form. More of this please!
In regards to the special effects, I find it really interesting that the two instances you cited here as working the best for you are the giant arms and Donna's double-jointed leg-- because those two effects _aren't_ CG. They're practical prosthetics. The effects crew made 3D scans of David Tennant, and built _actual_ giant prosthetic arms for him to drag along the ground while he walked, complete with inner mechanisms for him to be able to flex the fingers. The slow-moving robot was also practical as well-- basically, a giant puppet. Between these instances, and the truck flip from "The Star Beast" being real too, I am super impressed and excited that Davies is prioritizing practical effects this much. They apparently have the budget now, and not everything has to be CG. And that's fantastic! I'm completely on board with _any_ production like this making a conscious effort to balance the two types of effects work. Amazing performance work here from Tennant and Tate, as usual. I did pick up on the "Midnight" vibes, but for me, it also simultaneously felt a little like 14 and Donna being given their own version of "Heaven Sent", too. It's not that often that we get episodes that focus _solely_ on the Doctor and their companion, without any other human characters. The disorienting way the Not-Things were introduced was inspired. And I love how Davies and Tennant handled the Timeless Child and Flux revelations that Chibnall (quite honestly) left unfinished. The Doctor admitting here that the events of the Flux absolutely shattered him, and that he doesn't yet know how to process not knowing where he comes from or being unable to prevent the destruction of half the universe, was so well-handled that I genuinely feel like Davies has retroactively covered for most of Chibnall's writing deficiencies. It recontextualized 13's inexplicable silence about those issues as a deep well of pain and confusion in the character, something the Doctor has difficulty addressing, perhaps just as traumatic for them as the Time War was. I can absolutely buy that. Most importantly, it was the acknowledgment we all needed as fans before we could move on from Chibnall's era.
This episode was wonderfully ominous from the get-go. The tension was palpable, allowing me to forget briefly that, of course Donna and the Doctor would make it out ok. This is the best and rarest of great television.
The thing I like about DT being basically 10 again is that it gives us a new way to see how the Doctor has changed. Because the character changes so much from incarnation to incarnation sometimes some of the subtle growth can get lost, but 14 is 10 and yet has the experiences of the last three and RTD shows us some key differences. The Doctor can now say aloud that he loves people, and he's never had those words come out of this mouth. He can also be open about finding a man hot, and he is a lot more of a hugger than he was. I can see how a more different Doctor would give more scope for storytelling, I feel like RTD has chosen depth for these specials and I love it.
I fully agree with this. The moment where 14 kisses Donna's hand as he comforts her really jumped out at me because its not something 10 would have done. Being able to so directly contrast these two iterations makes for such an engaging watch.
The precedent that this episode sets for the upcoming series with Ncuti Gatwa is so exciting. I hope that the new era can have more weird concepts like this in future
The "Are you okay?" "I will be" moment felt like character development to me because of the scene in the library, in the end, when Donna asks 10 "Are you alright" and he replies "I'm always alright" to here where he's admitting that no, he isn't but with time he will get there. Also, the invoking a superstition at the edge of the universe thing??? What?? That better not just be a throwaway line!
One more thought, no two. First, yay for the Captain, she deserves all the accolades & our fondest memories. Bless her & her brilliant brain. Second, and much more important, when the explosion is coming for Donna, I’m 100% sure that 99.9% of her thoughts were for her family back home, to which the no-thing (that has now replicated her entirely!) was headed straight for. Death is one thing, and she already faced that and accepted it last week on behalf of her family, but this here is a far more horrifying idea. Can’t imagine a worse nightmare, except I’ve kinda had this one, ugh, godawful.
I loved the episode and the interplay between the four of them was great. It was obvious something was off from the start but I'm glad what it actually was wasn't immediately obvious. Yeah, I was the same with Donna's imminent death, even though I knew it wasn't going to happen. While this episode did affirm that he's not dismissing the whole Timeless Child storyline, I also like that he only picked on the Doctor's origins part and didn't mention the rest. That's the one bit I'm okay with remaining from that and if that's all it is, I'll be happy.
The whole Mavity thing is an example of Chekov's Gun (Any seemingly unimportant element that becomes significant later on in the story). The Doctor and Donna realise why the dead captain is caught up in that ship's gravity-well that helped the Doctor figure out why this ship has to be destroyed with the "Not Things" with it. Something silly such as that mis-hearing of the word became the key to what was the noise of that banging outside the ship.
I thought this episode was great. I’ve heard a lot of people say they were hoping for more, but it was exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for-a creepy, character-driven piece. David Tennant and Catherine state were fantastic. And while the effects weren’t amazing or anything, the uncanny valley feel of it all made me genuinely uncomfortable, which I think was very much the intent. Overall it was probably the most anxious and on the edge of my seat I’ve been while watching Doctor Who in years.
I liked the silly AI and the gradual explanation of the creatures this episode. I don’t need another midnight because, if I want to see that, I can go watch midnight. But they way these creatures were able to bounce between scary to ridiculous and back to scary was amazing. That’s hard to do and watching it unfold was unsettling.
Honestly, I loved what we saw of the No-Things. It feels like a lot of things they can do but it's just one. They morph. They're practically non-Euclydian, they're downright Lovecraftian. And with what little we do know, the 99% that's unknown becomes even more creepy and unnerving. Also two minor notes: Chibnall was going to explore the fallout of the Flux in the New Year's Special but Covid happened and he basically needed to write Eve of the Daleks at the very last minute. Theoretically he could've made a Flux-related story instead of Legend of the Sea Devils, but that's speculation. The second is that the long arms were actually practically made unlike the other effects (and the teeth, of course, those were obviously prosthetics).
So far this feels more like Doctor Who to me. That Sense of mystery, danger and that less is more. My 1st Doctor was 7 and I recall a story about machine's eating people. It felt like that era of Classic Who were the strangeness of what you're watching hooked you in. I like silly and campy, of Doctor Who. But when it gets strange and dark I feel it's at it's best.
RIP Bernard Cribbins. Lovely to see him one more time. I hope that they give Wilf a respectful resolution, to be honest. I hope they don't just have him being "left" somewhere. I think the character deserves a noble end, as Bernard won't be able to bring him to us, anymore.
As an asexual person, you can find someone hot and not want to have sex with them. I believe the comment here is just Donna calling Issac Newton attractive and finding it to be shocking that he was. I personally don't understand the difference between hot and attractive and to be honest I believe most people use them interchangeablely. Some people might have a difference but having seen people sexualize aces who are alive currently, Donna's remark was basically just a comment on appearance. (I think I rambled here and repeated myself a few times. lol) Anyway, again we seem to share similar thoughts on the the episode.
Just a quick point on your reference to Newton - I would say it's perfectly fine, if not natural, to find somebody hot with or without their permission. The sexuality of someone doesn't make them any more or less desirable to anybody else, I'd have thought.
The impression from the Cold Open, while light hearted, came back into play with the metaphorical "mavity" of the situation being at the edge of the universe fighting the no-things. Then the random noise being the corpse of the ship's captain caught in the gravity well of the ship setting up why the ship is reconfiguring. Because of that, the Cold Open served as a chekhov's gun and theme for the story. Great review and love your work!
Thank you for saying it reminds you of Heaven Sent, I said the same thing. This episode feels like a mixture of both Midnight and Heaven Sent due to the small cast and tense/eerie nature of it.
I actually had forgotten about the cold open 10 mins into the episode. I don't know why it was there. The fact people are comparing this to "Midnight" (one of the best New Who episodes ever) is a compliment in and of itself.
I loved this episode SO MUCH. The not-things (wonky effects aside) were INCREDIBLY effective and creeped me out majorly. As soon as I realized that not-Donna wasn't Donna, I was overcome with a sense of unease that didn't leave me for the rest of the episode. So. Unsettling. Something I haven't seen a lot of people mention that I also really liked is having this story be set so soon after the whole timeless child ordeal and doing it while the doctor is, for reasons he doesn't yet understand, revisiting an old face. The impact of running into beings that copy your appearance and get access to your memory just becomes that much greater under those circumstances.
The biggest physical change for me was when the not Donna mentions the timeless child and he believes it's her and then bloop, something about her having him pinned down psychologically it's just the physical stuff she's messed up made it so disturbing. I got Rendezvous on Rama vibes from this episode. The Newton intro felt so out of place it's something that belongs outside of an episode like an intro for a concert or one of those children specials. Calling Newton hot I mean even if he is asexual he can still be attractive or even vain I mean since Paris Hilton anything can be hot it doesn't mean there's an expectation of sexual acts.
One thing I wish they did (partly because it's a 60th Anniversary special) would have been for fake Donna to talk to The Doctor about the Time War, the loss of companions like Amy and Clara, and more emphasis on the effects of the Flux while fake Doctor teased Donna about not coming back and seeing her daughter and famiky again. I think an additional couple minutes of dialogue and drawing parallels between feeling alone at the edge of space and feeling alone in the universe at times would have been interesting. Perhaps fake Donna could have even teased The Doctor about the Valeyard and a darkness that they continuously try to keep buried.
Forgot to mention: the last five minutes of 'Wild, blue yonder' were enough to make me forgive alot of clunkiness of Star Beast. So, good to see Wilf and such a beautiful scene.
I think most of what we know of Newton is stuff written later in life. As a young man he may have been quite different. There could have been a trigger at some point that put him off of intimacy. People are complicated, and they change. Even people semi-ace, they have curiosities growing up while figuring themselves out. Now does finding another man attractive suddenly make someone gay? I don't think that's true, especially for an alien. You can observe that someone is pretty or handsome, hot even, without that equating to sexual attraction. I think lots of people are hot that I have no desire to be with like that. Finding Newton objectively hot, does not signal an orientation. At least it shouldn't. IMO.
yeah, that really confused me. Donna is married with a teen daughter. And they're more squicked out by Donna thinking Newton was hot because Newton might have been asexual? I'm a straight woman, so I'm only allowed to find straight or bisexual men attractive? I mean if I find a gay guy hot before I know he's gay is that a problem? Do I automatically have to put him in a "not hot" category after learning he's gay? I'm sorry, but saying someone is hot doesn't mean, "I'd sleep with them given the chance." sometimes"they're hot" just means "they're pretty to look at."
@@byMidnyt Coming back to this because I just saw someone who is 20 something who I can w/out doubt say is "hot" but it never occurred to me to think of them sexually because I'm 48 and married and just... no! Even making myself try to is like Ewwww, noooo. Now think how old the Doctor is!!
21:47 I hope that RTD will ether add more to the flux and the timeless child stories that make actual sense if in the future it is brought up again and I feel like one of the ways that this could happen would be if the master lied and the master was the timeless child or something similar to the valyard with that being a potential version of the doctor or something that had subconsciously influenced the doctor during their childhood
Genuinely thought she was going to die there with how convincing the copying of the Not-Things were, absolutely just a horrifying, mind-bending piece of Sci Fi.
This is one of those episodes that starts out great but gets better upon a rewatch, and then another and another... I love it. So many little details and the way its directed... *chefs kiss*
I completely agree with that part about the captain. The over use of CGI had made me a bit ambivalent to everything else in the episode, but there were some GREAT moments - and the Captain was one of them. In a matter of seconds i was actually whelling up with emotion over this selfless sacrifice, and the way they were acknowledging it, with almost like a moments silence for her bravery. It was so very, very sad - and respecful. Masterful moment right there, respect the dead doctor who! Or else why did we care in the first place?
Last episode was wonderful, but _this_ episode reminded me of why I loved _Doctor Who_ to begin with, and why I still do. It feels so good to finally be able to recognize my favorite show again.
I enjoyed this episode a lot. For many of the same reasons as you. I don't have much to add, but I will say this: Having us think Donna had died or was about to - twice now, makes me worried. RTD does this, he makes us believe characters will die only for there to be a way out of some kind. "this is the day I die" - Rose, but she ended being left on the parallel universe. Donna was going to die, and her 'turn left' version did - but Donna was back in the real reality and then had her memories wiped. They're emotional moments, but now we've had two moments with Donna dying or about to, and I'm afraid he'll finally kill a character off and make it permanent. Will RTD have the gall to kill Donna after those two fake outs? I think it'll be a slap in the face, because we might see it happen and expect a way out. I just don't want Donna to die, like the third time in a row, only this one sticks. I just don't think I'd be able to take it.
You may notice this video is a choppy mess. That's because BBC claimed literally every scrap of footage from the episode. Rather than let them claim the ad revenue I've trimmed it all out and the full original version is exclusively on my Patreon (www.patreon.com/councilofgeeks ).
My video on the issue of the BBC's support of Transphobia: ua-cam.com/video/aN4uc0HZrWE/v-deo.html
My video on the BBC's response to complaints of its reporting: ua-cam.com/video/skh81N5lcYY/v-deo.html
My short on why I'll continue to put up the note at the front of these: ua-cam.com/users/shortsHpwwzjzFXiE
Shaun's 1st video, which includes some additional confirmed information: ua-cam.com/video/b4buJMMiwcg/v-deo.html
Shaun’s 2nd video, which follows how the BBC is trying to dodge accountability for all of this: ua-cam.com/video/qfjTG6SVjmQ/v-deo.html
Shaun’s 3rd video, following him escalating his complaints: ua-cam.com/video/fRn1UZ4fhdE/v-deo.html
Shaun's 4th video, covering the BBC's response: ua-cam.com/video/3F7GW7Ro4OQ/v-deo.html
Laura Kate Dale's protest speech outside the BBC offices: ua-cam.com/video/hBjGnWkwAjI/v-deo.html
MAvity... MASTER activity.
I bet MISSY will be back for a moment !!! Iamgine that ! Chaos , humans everywhere going crazy.. Missy running amok !
Out of curiosity why are you not happy that Isaac Newton was played by someone not white? I'm glad you aren't unhappy about it. But why are you not happy about it? I care in that I am glad he was. Why aren't you also glad? Not saying you need to be glad for it, I'm just curious why you aren't.
@@myrecreationalchannel7181 I just flatly don’t have an opinion. It’s a thing they did. Ok. I’m not trying to avoid controversy, I genuinely do not have an opinion on this.
@@CouncilofGeeks But isn't it a good thing for minorities to get more roles, even if it is a small one? I'm no expert on the matter, but I'd imagine they have a harder time getting roles compared to those who aren't minorities. Therefore every role played by a minority is a small victory. Isn't it? I'm not upset, I'm just trying to grasp your perspective on the matter because I don't understand it yet.
Edit: Basically you seem to me that you'd be the sort of person to be happy about it to at least a small degree, as I am. And the fact that instead you don't care puzzled me, so I'm curious as to why you don't care.
@@CashelOConnolly I assume then on the other hand that you are upset that a minority was cast?
One of my favourite unsung brilliant parts of this episode is that the Not-Things were shaped by what they heard of the universe, and it turned them into bloodthirsty monsters, but the first actual creature they encountered, the Captain, was a repudiation of that. At the edge of the universe, without hope, without witness, and without reward, she sacrificed herself so that the Not-Things would never make it into the rest of the universe. She died to protect everyone else. She's a direct rejection of the Not-Things' assesment of "human" nature, and I like that the episode doesn't point that out.
It’s also a reflection of reality. The “Not-Things” say that love letters don’t travel that far, but there are more love letters written than death threats. The death threats are just so loud! They get heard. They get focused on. We rebroadcast them into the universe. Look at this awful person! Witness this tragedy! You look out at the world and you think it’s so awful! Yet, you look at the people around you and they are overwhelmingly kind. The tragedy is that kindness stays with you. It doesn’t get rebroadcast. It doesn’t get reported on the news or written in the history books.
Did you just assume "she" as a pronoun?
@@HOTD108_ I did not. It's directly stated in the episode. Which does kind of reinforce that Davies doesn't get what being nonbinary is or preferred pronouns, because factually speaking the Doctor is just guessing based on biology, and doesn't actually know what pronouns the Captain used, which kind of ignores the whole point of the pronoun scene from the previous episode. But she is the pronoun used in the episode, so that's what I'm going with.
@@bookswithike3256except it wasn't, the doctor assumes she first but then says "he, them?"
@@awhryanDonna: "Did they throw him out? ...Her out? Them out?"
The Doctor: "Her."
‘The arms are too long’ is a common criticism of AI generated art. So fantastic to see these themes crop up in doctor who.
Great review, but I do disagree that 14 and 10 are identical, you can definitely see a shift in the characterization due to the extra lives lived since his tenth incarnation. Yes the surface-level Ten-isms are mostly there, the loud, the shoutiness, the whatting. But David plays some moments a bit differently than how we'd expect Ten to react in Series 4. He is more mellow, more emotionally available. More vulnerable. He feels older and I absolutely love that. His vanity and smugness has faded away, his confidence too. In this episode he admits that he gets things wrong.
Take the moment in this episode where 14 was about to berate Donna for spilling the coffee. If this was Series 4 with Ten, they'd have a jokey shouting namecalling match back and forth. Instead, 14 takes a more mature response in realizing Donna is upset, corrects his tone and is there for her emotionally in that moment, comforting her. It is a fascinating evolution of the Doctor after his 11th, 12th and 13th incarnations.
I think having recently rewatched Series 1-4 in anticipation of this special was helpful in noticing these subtle differences.
I do however agree that there are not as many differences as I would have liked, as I think a new take on a Doctor with an old face is a fascinating concept to explore.
I think 14 moves differently to 10, I love the confident/relaxed stroll which seems more mature than 10 somehow. When he was effortlessly evading UNIT in the steelworks and again here exploring the ship, comfortable in his old body.
Completely agree
There are differences but I think they're still far too close to be different regens. He just seems like Ten with three more sets of memories affecting him, instead of a full, brand new regen with Ten's face.
Until I see next week's episode I'm still holding on to the idea that it is Ten, despite what RTD claims as he does lie. The Toymaker has interfered, messed with things and it might give an explanation for the clothes changing, which I still want an in-universe explanation for because RTD's real world excuse is weak.
Yeah - it took me some time, but I can admit he deals with Donna especially in a more….loving?….way then Ten would have.
It’s a subtle acknowledgment of growth, a hint of increased emotional maturity, and it’s sweet to see if easy to miss at first glance
Agreed. I was taken with how much Jodie channeled him in a lot of ways and I definitely see how he's channeling the 13th doctor now.
I love all the subtle differences between the 10th and 14th Doctor. Yeah, they're mostly the same persona, but 14 is FAR more emotionally open than 10. More compassionate, more considerate, more kind. It's demonstrated in small enough moments that someone not paying attention can miss it, but for those of us who are paying attention, it's such a nice and interesting contrast.
Yeah. It genuinely feels like the same person with the same quirks and idiosyncracies... who's gone through everything that happened since he last had that face and is at a different stage in his life... Which is something I have to give props to David Tennant as an actor for selling.
I never liked 10... He felt too human and too self centered... But I think I do like 14. He has all that optimism and kindness he learned from being 12 and maybe 13. (I say maybe due to how inconsistant her characterization was) As well as a little bit of the silly mask from his time as 11 peeking through, as he deals with how shaken he is from what has happened (much like 9 had to before 10). He almost comes off as a slight amalgamation of all the New Who Doctors and I'm definitely here for it.
I loved 10, but 14 is my Doctor now because of exactly this.
@@parrot998 Very well said, from another person who didn't like 10 but is really liking 14.
thats exactly what i thought, he genuinely feels like a whole different incarnation to me and im kind of shocked most people feel completely differently. I think i actually prefer 14 because of the emotional vulnerability shown tbh
I love that the Doctor wasn't infallible in this episode, he didn't realize that Donna wasn't the real Donna multiple times and this villain was able to effectively use his own strengths against him. He wasn't incompetent to the point that he was making dumb decisions for the sake of plot, but the Doctor was vulnerable, which I think was lost a bit during the Moffatt years. I kept expecting him to smell the right Donna straight away or notice just by looking that her eyes were slightly too close together or something. It was refreshing to see a villain that could outsmart the Doctor in a way that was satisfying, but was still outsmarted in the end (thanks in part to a dead space horse).
Reminds me of that bit (ironically from the Moffat era) where the 10th Doctor claims to know that Queen Elizabeth was actually not the real Queen and just a Zygon, and after listening all the ways he was right about it he still ended up being dead wrong 💀
Funnily enough, two out of the three effects you liked were actually practical! The fake Doctor's long arms and Donna's double knee were both prothetics, which I think makes them feel a lot more grounded and real than some of the other effects in this episode.
100% the props were better than the CGI, and is also more in line with Doctor Who's history of hilarious practical effects for monsters - get outta here with that digital stuff disney
Davies doing what he does best...making us think Donna is gonna die while at the same time thinking "surely not". Two conflicting thoughts, both true
I went thru MANY emotions during those brief few seconds 😂
Imagine if he is doing it on purpose so we don’t believe it and then he kills her in the finale and that leads into the next regeneration.
he really would be that cruel wouldn't he 😭I doubt it but it is very possible...
@@chazo1367
I actually really thought she was gonna die too 😭
@@alim.9801 So did I, last week and this week. 😭😭😭😭
As an ace person there is nothing wrong with someone finding me attractive or even saying so in a polite way. I like to know I look good like anyone else. The issue is when they feel entitled to something from me. “Thanks but not interested” should be more than enough.
Donna was just pointing out that she thought he was hot to a friend (not even in front of him) with no sense of entitlement or intention to act upon it. This isn’t a problem regardless of his sexuality.
I felt that way when (spoiler!)………….
Mel told the 15th Doctor he was beautiful. It didn’t feel sleazy or objectifying to me.
I mean, she was right. Even the notoriously private and anti-social Tom Baker (the fourth Doctor) swooned when he saw a photo of him, calling him “a handsome young man!” and complimenting his “marvellous cheekbones”. (Then in true Tom Baker fashion, he morbidly declared that “these things become important when you’re near death”)
@@CarysCreatesThings I love this!! Tom is such a (wonderful) weirdo.
My biggest take away was that I think the doctor returned to this state because he needed the comfort of familiarity. He’s gone through so much since ten and thirteen put 0 effort into processing her emotions. This pitstop back at one of the most human, emotional doctors might be the doctor’s subconscious way of coping with this trauma and lack of sense of identity
Oh that's fun
Oooo i love this take!
Headcanon accepted.
I think the third episode confirms this take is canon.
Honestly, as an estranged doctor who fan I felt the same, it’s the familiarity of the Tenant face that actually brought me back to the franchise ahaha
WAIT YOU CAN CHANGE THE COLOR!?!?!?!
Truthfully, once I clocked it was Isaac Newton, all I could think of was my college history professor's comment of "Though he's a fellow Englishman, I'll never forgive that bastard for creating Calculus"
Cold open served what I think is intended as a serious tool--a loop marker. They NEED "mavity" because as long as they're using it, we know we are inside a timeline set when the interchange occurred. Within that they get a cheap joke, a lampshade about famous people, and Tennant's lovely, calm acceptance of the idea he may be gay this regeneration, and Tate's teasing comment that it never seemed buried very deep to her. And the reassurance in the light, light opening that the show was not going to be utterly tragic.
I'm getting old and cranky. The word Gravity was not invented by Newton. He didn't even 'discover' it. Bah... I'm taking the show too seriously.
I loved it. Not seen a "bottle episode" like this in a while. Just two actors (plus stunt doubles), on a set, only four characters and a story that deconstructs the characters' broken psyches in a really introspective way. We knew Russell could cook but I don't think we expected him to cook THIS HARD.
One scene I loved was where The Doctor described The Tardis as an eternal source of awe and fear. An object that can potentially be worshipped, then demonized, then a foundation for a whole civilization, and eventually something that outlives that same civilization. It was a speech that immediately got me to visualize The Tardis in a time-lapse sequence and it felt chilling. It also made me wonder if this had actually happened at one point for The Tardis. It's already one of my all-time favorite Doctor speeches.
On Thirteen's second episode, The Ghost Monument, the Tardis got lost on a planet back in time and became the basis for legends and a crucial part of an intergalactic race. That's what that speech reminded me of.
@@Thief555WWJD Ah, good call! I'll imagine that The Doctor was thinking of that planet when he made that speech. :)
Yes I visualised a time-lapse also!!
The Ghost Monument was what came to mind for me when 14 was telling this story. I wonder if it was in the back of RTDs mind when he wrote this.
And I'm right there with you in how it conjured up a time lapse of the civilisation being created and then crumbling, left with only the Tardis standing (atop a dusty sunlight hill).
10 and 14 are so different though?! Sure, David tennant is doing similar vocal delivery and mannerisms, but 14 is more emotionally open and able to be vulnerable than 10 ever was. Where 10 would hide behind playfulness to avoid sharing his feelings and gradually isolate himself from everyone who loves him under a front of stoic self-sacrifice, 14 expresses his love and affection openly (to the point of surprising himself). He allows Donna to decide for herself to sacrifice herself even though it will tear him apart. He maturely changes gears when he’s shouting at Donna and switches to comforting her. And he even opens up about his own trauma when he thinks he’s talking to Donna. 14 feels like an older, more mature, less arrogant Doctor, which, of course, he is. And David Tennant’s portrayal of that difference is subtle but palpable. He infuses all his scenes with a sense of emotion (pain and loneliness and a fierce love) very near the surface that could spill over (and does) at any moment.
I think he feels like a more emotionally mature version of the same doctor. They don't feel like two different incarnations.
"My arms are too long" is -for me at least- very close to "Hey, who turned off the Lights?" and "Are you my mummy?" in terms od creepyness. For now, at least.
100%
I cried when Wilf Mott showed up at the end. I'm so glad the episode was dedicated to Bernard Cribbins.
Me too
Same. Heck I cried at the paragraph inserted into the video lol
I really appreciate that you are one of the reviewers to actually get Donna's thinking on missing out on her family and not being able to get back and how scary it is. So many people ive seen its not in her character to feel like this and completely miss the point of the whole scene. Finally someone gets it
Also i think the long arms and three knees were done practically
It's not in her character to show those feelings. A nuance people miss in many characters at times. Loved this. And The Doctor apologising when he figures things out.
I would say it wasn't in her character for The Runaway Bride, except for Wilf of course but she's grown a lot since then, evem with the memory wipe in place. Post meeting the Doctor, it's definitely part of her character to think of her family. For one, she didn't have a child back then and that can change someone a lot.
Totally agree. There's a change in Donna in that before she was going to travel with the doctor forever but now she has a family she loves and wants to be with more. It's a growth in her character and I don't get why other reviews didn't get that. As if they want the characters to stay embedded in one area. Again very good writing in just a few lines.
Having a child changes your perspective. Donna having a child means she has different priorities over the doctor now.
I love stories where The Doctor doesn’t know what he’s just encountered (midnight, The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit, this)
What’s really sad about this being all they got of Bernard Cribbins it means potentially a scene between him and Rose had to be cut. Yasmin Finney made a post on her Twitter after his death stating he was the best on-screen grandfather she ever knew, I’m guessing during the script read-throughs there was a scene between him and Rose that they did together. Sad we never got to see Wilf and his granddaughter interact
It absolutely could have been “fake Donna” in the promotional materials for special 3. We were right to be terrified for her.
The cold open is something I know RTD made purely for the pure camp misdirect of the tone of the episode, very much feels like his usual "I really wanted to do X ridiculous thing" that's usually followed by "then we had to cut it down", but I do like the occasional time it comes through in the end result just for the sheer fun it brings
I do think the Fourteenth Doctor feels different. He doesn't feel as optimistic. He's both more caring towards Donna and way harsher and indifferent. The way he both kissed her hands and comforted her, and yelled at her very angrily for spilling the coffee feels like things the Tenth Doctor would have never done.
I agree, if you take a look at any of Tennant's original run and compare to the last two episodes, he really feels really emotionally supercharged in these specials. The 10th Doctor's personality was, while also emotional, much more subdued and he really kept to himself and buried his feels. Honestly, that aspect of the 10th Doctor was what made his character so compelling to me, so I'm a bit disappointed in the change here, but it isn't a huge deal since he is at least a different regeneration in this instance.
He also seems to be surprised at himself in moments when he’s more open, such as agreeing that Newton was hot in this ep, and when he’s speaking to that UNIT scientist in the last.
14 is 10’s personality but w the mental maturity gained from his regenerations since 10 that have basically allowed 14 to be 10 w/o his vanity & emotional immaturity bc he as a mind continuous being made that character growth & he’s no longer as war ptsd driven so he’s just got character development that differentiates 10 from 14
No longer arrogant self untitled & more emotionally expressive & mature 10th doctor is basically what 14 is
>kissed her hands and comforted her
I have no idea if this was something that RTD or Tennant had in mind for that scene, but something about the way he did that just screamed Matt Smith as 11 to me. I saw someone else say that 14 feels like 10........but ten plus a little bit of 11, 12 and 13, with all the weight of their experiences, and personally I think that's coming through super clearly.
My heart broke into hundreds of tiny pieces when I saw Wilf. it was just so beautiful to see our beloved space Granddad on screen again and the joy of him and the Doctor reuniting and the love and affection and care for each other.
So wonderful seeing The Doctor meet Wilf one last time. Especially since he never got to say goodbye to the Brigadier.
I didn't know what it was, but I clocked that whatever walked into the room when Donna was moving the weird rectangles around wasn't the Doctor. Something about the way it came into the room and slid down against the wall just didn't seem like the Doctor to me. No idea what it was, just knew that something was wrong. I love when a show manages to pull off something that uncanny so well.
That "Are you okay" scene hit me as a call-back to Forest of the Dead after the Doctor had just seen River die and Donna was separated from the soulmate she'd found, the "Are you all right?" exchange. I mean one key difference between Ten and Fourteen is that the Doctor is much more open about his feelings now. And you see it here, because the "I'm always all right" bluff turns into "I will be." He admits he loves Donna. He admits he can find people hot. He admits he errored and let half the universe die. The walls of hubris that caused him problems before are lowered and he's more honest about what he's going through, more willing to be seen as a fallible being who makes mistakes.
I can't say i LOVED this one, but the horror when it dawned on me "that's not the Doctor...."
The creepiness of the Not Things was next level. The expressions, their ideas and perspectives. They feel tremendously VIOLATING in a way other shapeshifters on this show have never have.
For a moment, I felt the stare of Kilgrave again. These are beings that will take everything from you.
I feel that Donna's lying about not remembering. She knows things will be different if she admits she knows. And he knows she's lying...
Yes, felt like that
I felt like she is lying. And it’s more like something the show would do. That “big space brain” line really feels like an awkward joke to ease the tension and close the topic rather than a genuine explanation yet with enough ambiguity that you can feel it both ways.
💯
That's the vibe I got too
absolutely
This was the type of episode that I was terrified wouldn't be possible since the reboot, I was really worried with all the new money behind the show that it would just be all the bombastic type of episodes, so I absolutely love that this episode exists
Sup
I love that you too noticed the similarities with Midnight, when the airlock was first mentioned I went "Midnight". And yet it's clearly not the same story, it managed to capture the essense of what I loved about Midnight but still do something new and interesting with it, make a different story with similar elements.
This episode was great!
I get the issues with the special effects and visual horror, but it really worked for me. It terrified me probably more than was rational. The idea of someone you trust and feel safe around suddenly turning into that really got inside my head, it felt like something out of a bad dream. Incredible.
ropey visuals were all over first 4 seasons of the rebooted series... never bothered me. The Daleks looks stupid but its fine... its DR who... bit o jank is fine... just give us good stories like the Dr and Vincent... I STILL CRY at the end EVERYTIME
Some of those effects were some of the scariest the show has done imo (I agree the massive inflated ones were a bit much and the subtler ones like the arms, were better, but that whole chase scene with them warping as they went had me exclaiming the whole time)
@@kellygingrich4302 The jaw dropping open and when bent backwards through his legs stand out as ones that really didn't land right, but I liked the majority of them and the chase scene was very high tension for me as well. Not only were they constantly close to catching up, giving a sense of real danger, but the way they were warping like that because they don't understand shape or size really drove in the idea that these are NOT human and you can't apply human logic to them. Later as they assimilate better they start to feel more human, but at that point they felt completely impossible to relate to. (Although I never really notice when effects are bad, so it could just be that better quality ones would make more of a difference than people think.)
Two notes on this one 1) when they first landed and the Doctor seemed somewhat cheerful my spouse said, “oh, you haven’t seen Event Horizon have you” and 2) I do find it interesting that we’ve done the glass wall divide in two consecutive episodes. The first time the Doctor is forced to confront what he had done to Donna, and in the second both of them had to confront themselves.
The glass wall seems to be a motif with Tennant's Doctor(s)
I mostly agree with you about 14, but I think the main difference is that he's acts older and has seen / done a lot since being 10.
He also seems to share his emotions vocally more than 10 did. That said, he shared more than 13.
On the Flux, I think it's telling that I forgot half the universe was destroyed until this episode...
Regarding The Flux, it wasn't just you, Chibnall seemed to have left it in a limbo for all of us; never stating if it had been restored or not (not even Thirteen or her companions brought it up again). Its only now that RTD has confirmed it stayed destroyed and its weighing on the Doctor's mind. A sigh of relief to have the loose end finally tied, a credit to RTD that he worked it into this episode with just a few lines.
I can't say I thought much about Sir Isaac Newton's casting, but I did get hung up on his wardrobe. I couldn't help thinking "Was pre-fame Newton a spoiled wealthy aristocrat?" Cause damn those were expensive looking clothes for his time.
His family was at least reasonably well off, but he had some tensions with his mother. So he got the middle/upper middle-class upbringing as well as the joy of working through college (he did go to a fancy schmancy college on a family member's recommendation, so he also got nepotism). He was at least wealthy enough that he was able to escape from the plague to a family member's countryside residence. Which is where this scene took place.
I don't quite see the issue with Donna's comment on Isaac Newton. She was gossiping with her friend.
Had she flirted with him or made that exact comment in front of him, I'd see the issue, but he wasn't in the room.
Given Donna's marital status, I don't think we're supposed to believe she's actually interested in him.
I think I expressed myself badly on this because ultimately I don't feel weird that Donna said it... I felt weird that RTD wrote it and put those words in her mouth.
Having actually met and being friends with a lot of married women - not weird at all! 😂😂😂
Yeah, just Donna being gossipy - that's already WELL established. (though I DO think the cold open was blah and unless they needed it for a specific mativty reference later on, I don't see the point of Isaac Newton being in a scene)
I actually liked the cold open - I thought the actor who played Isaac Newton’s delivery was really funny. I also like that it has a different tone from the rest of the episode because I feel like it makes the shift to a scarier atmosphere more jarring and effective
I feel like he will come back in a future episode
@@Venemofthe888i kind of hope so - I actually found him really endearing!
I absolutely loved the cold open! I didn’t care that it had no baring on the episode. I love it when stories are allowed to just have a fun character moment. It makes it feel more real to me. Not every single moment is integral to some bigger story nor does it need to be.
the cold open though : could be fun if it was the Tardis disappearing, they wander... they start talking with the Not-Things and they notice they arent' their friend... CUT TO CREDITS !!!!
I liked it, too!
This episode was incredible. It's an instance of RTD doing the trifecta; the plot, character, and thematic writing here were fantastic. The last episode being about the self also plays a role here, as there are "copies" of the Doctor and Donna as well. Really clever continuance of the last episode. The theme is also less obvious here than Star Beast, but still pays off in spades if analyzed. The idea of some problems having to slowly be dealt with instead of in an instant is here, as the enemies had to be defeated through a slow process, and over thinking actually made them more powerful. This ties into the Doctor having to deal with what happened in The Flux. There's even the clever line at the end when Donna asks whether he'll be okay, and he says he will be "in a million years." Meaning slow healing is better than fast answers. Really great stuff.
Also the song "Wild Blue Yonder" being said to be a war song, and Donna saying she thought it was jolly hits on the idea that 2 things can be true at once, while the villains only view things in one way, like when they said the universe was pure "war." Again, there's a lot here. Lol
24:20 So I kind of felt like Donna DID retain those memories, but didn't want to force him into the conversation. It's her saying she's there for him when he's ready to talk about it, but not pushing too hard.
I think the problem is that there's just no time in one remaining episode for Donna and the Doctor to do justice to that conversation and that's why it was written that she can't remember it. I would love her to address 12 having the same face as Caecilius from Fires of Pompeii as he and his family were only saved due to Donna begging 10 to do so, but again, I just don't think there's enough time in one last episode to dedicate to something like that. Maybe Big Finish.
i personally notice a difference between 10 and 14. I recently rewatched 10’s run and I found that he was pissing me off a LOT more than he did on first watch because of how cocky he acted and how much of a god complex he had. which, yes I KNOW, is part of his overall arc in series 4, culminating in Waters of Mars. But those parts really made me like his doctor less on rewatch. So having him come back in these specials after learning from that arc & all of the things he’s been through since, I can REALLY notice the difference. He acknowledges that he DOESNT know everything, that he can’t actually DO everything, that he isn’t infallible. It’s very refreshing and he’s much more enjoyable for me as 14 than he was as 10. That’s why I really appreciated the waters of mars for calling him out on this & showing the consequences of his own hubris.
According to the behind-the-scenes footage the big arms and Donna's extra leg thing were prosthetics, which is probably why they're better than the jaw drop and puddle effects
Rule of 3 is making me concerned for Donna's survival in the third special...
We also have only had 2 of the three dialogue scenes where we think she's gonna die from the trailers, I haven't clocked the "I don't know if I'm going to be able to save your life this time" yet...
@chrisprescott9396Good writers don't kill or save characters based of how much they like them. They do it based of whether or not it makes the story better.
As someone who's only really been a part of this fandom since just before Series 9 aired, watching this episode (in particular *re*watching it on my own after seeing it with my family the first time) and then coming online to see the reaction to it gave me the same feeling as after I saw Heaven Sent, Oxygen, and World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls - the feeling that I'm witnessing Doctor Who history, an episode that's going to be discussed as one of the show's best for YEARS to come. It's a feeling that I've really, really missed these past six years and I'm SO happy to have it back.
This :)
I love that the Doctor is much more focused on the aftermath of the Flux than on the personal drama of the Timeless Child. It’s absolutely who he is. The Doctor has decided the TC stuff doesn’t matter, but the destruction of the Flux that does.
@@xenon8117well being a careless hypocritical asshole with people issues is also a character. Not a good character, but…
i am actually curious to see if Big Finish does something with thirteenth and I really hope they will actually explore the character she ended up being and give depth to her flaws, probably biggest flaws of a doctor in newho, rather than just making her an average hero she was supposed to be
I dream of Colin Baker getting a 1 minisode regenration between David Tennant's 14th and Ncuti "Shody" Gatwa!!! "Degenerates! 10,000 years of absolute power that's what it took indeed for Galifrey to be really corrupt! I was right! Damn carrot juice!!" and at the end Ncuti comes in the brain of our favorite timelord.
Maybe mavity was a breadcrumb. The Doctor says gravity in a conversation with Donna towards the end. Donna corrects him and he says mavity. So maybe there is a purpose for that opening scene besides being funny.
I’m sorry but I loved the cold open I found it hilarious. The Mavity running joke made me laugh every time it was brought up and I genuinely hope gravity is referred to as Mavity for the rest of the show. Also I feel the cold open was included for extended media to have a gap to tell extra 14th Doctor stories. I would be surprised if they is not at least one story in a comic or novel that told a story in this time 😂.
I would like to believe that too, but Donna mentioning Isaac Newton on the spaceship implies that they were only just up in that apple tree. But to be honest a better place would be before the beginning of The Star Beast, the TARDIS just appears in Camden with no explanation, and we had the Children in Need special, so there's a gap there for it.
@@toasterroast7678 You also need a gap with both Donna and the Doctor together. If you need a super thin reason to explain that away, the other adventures could be before the Isaac Newton moment. It doesn't need to make *much* sense. You just need there to be a gap where two events aren't concretely one after the other.
People keep saying that the new David Doctor doesn't feel distinctly different from 10, but there are subtle changes.. He kisses Donna's hand a lot - which is very much a Matt-thing to do. He holds her hands very closely to him, reminds me of 12 and Clara. He's also a little more easy with his "I love this... I love that" which is a bit Jodie. It makes sense that he kind of reverts back to his old personality. He has that old face, and that old friend, so it feels familiar so... Habit. He's going to fall back onto that, but he can't help who he has been pulling him in a few new directions.
I think he should have had his actual voice though - that would have just given it a different flavour
I think that David Tennant not using his Scottish accent is a real missed opportunity. He looks a bit different (older) so why not sound different?
At first I thought him using his real accent would be a bad idea but actually thinking about it, the idea has grown on me, may have made more of a distinction between 10 and 14, not just the subtly emotional differences that we've been spotting. It could be explained with some wibbly wobbly writing about how 12s accent has leaked though to this regeneration or some such...
AHHH thank you so much for accepting my sponsorship request ❤
I am convinced (headcanon, to be confirmed ;) that Donna actually does know everything that happened in the past 15 years, same as Copy Donna. And that she only pretended to not know to let the Doctor tell her what he wants to tell her himself and on his own terms. To respect his privacy and not make him feel exposed, so to speak. This is what I saw in Catherine Tate's performance. Loved it
Definitely enjoyed the mavity of this episode. It reminded me of Midnight. Wonderfully creepy, funny and entertaining
My case for the cold open: the ‘Wild Blue Yonder’ song comparison. Donna’s choir mistress insisted it was a jolly, happy song…when in fact it was about war and loss and death. Everyone assumed (or chose to believe) it was a happy, heartfelt, comfy thing…when in fact, the true horror was bubbling beneath the surface the whole time. The episode began with whacky japes and shenanigans, the ol’ Doctor and Donna magic, a big bright exciting spaceship…and then, gradually, the true horror began to manifest.
At least that was my reading 😅
This was an astonishingly brave story to tell in a Special.
Specials tend to aim toward a more broad appeal than a typical episode. They are spectacles. People who don't watch Who regularly watch the Specials.
And these ones specifically are part of reaching a new audience on Disney+.
This was the exact opposite of what I ever would expect for a Special on Disney+.
There were pretty much just two characters. It is straight up claustrophobic horror (and brilliant in making such a big ship feel so small). This was nightmare fuel. This was as weird as Dr Who gets.
And it was pretty much all character work. A focus on the character and personality and relationship between these two characters that a lot of viewers just met for the first time last week.
It is also a Bottle-episode. If this was intentional to put more of the budget into the first or the third, or just to prep new viewers to the concept these kind of episodes exist and often are among the best in a season.
There was a moment which really showcased how Dr Who (as a franchise) is different than anything else. A common trope in evil-twin stories I the moment of "How did you know I was me and they weren't?" Usually there is some thing that proves who the real best friend is, or they trick the evil twin. Sometimes there is a twist that they didn't and just got lucky.
They spent the whole episode doing this, and it just made the Not Things smarter. That alone is a big change to this trope.
The Doctor immediately realizes this, and rather than waste time he picks a Donna at random. Not because he guessed; but because he knew the only remaining differences would be so subtle only the TARDIS scanner could tell. So the plan was always to return if he had the wrong Donna.
Most heroes would have trouble doing this; even more pragmatic ones, the pragmatic one are the ones that just guess.
The Doctor does this all the time. He often seemingly abandons companions like this, and doesn't explain ("I'll explain later")
But it isn't because he's calous or mean. Even though Donna is scared out of her mind, he knows she is brilliant and strong and can handle herself. He wins by not playing the game.
This whole episode shows us all the things Dr Who is that a special usual cannot.
And as an aside; if this were a Moffat episode, by the end there would have been thousands of Not Things and a 5 minute monologue ending in "I'm The Doctor."
I think the Mavity situation may be plot-relevant to the next episode.
It could be one of those things that the TARDIS smooths over in the time stream once it has repaired itself. The fact The Doctor started calling it gravity again and Donna had not quite caught up yet may be an indication of that. Tells us the TARDIS is repaired, and it can "fix" minor changes. Meanwhile is a good example of the kind of humor in this show.
But it also could be the reason things are suddenly so chaotic when they get back. If it is, then it makes sense as a cold open.
If it isn't, then I agree it was very out of place. A light hearted open does juxtapose well with what we are about to get; but if it is completely unrelated to anything at all, it is really stupid. It would be such a waste of Isaac Newton.
Even from a "realism" standpoint, there is a lot of history we have wrong, and a lot of white-washing. We only have drawings and paintings of him. Wigs and face powder were the norm. And it is definitely common for people born of mixed race to hide it, or have others hide it.
Plus, this is not our universe. And the universe has been changed a lot, especially recently.
But honestly? Who cares? The guy was good in the role, and that is what matters.
Plus this is the same show that made the Queen black. Future Queen, and different showrunner; but it has always tried to push these kind of boundaries within the limit they can get away with. If they gave us Liz 10 in the 70s, the show would have probably been canceled; but I'm sure they wanted to do stuff like that. This philosophy is baked into the show; but limited by the sensibilities of whatever very British white executives might be around at the time. This is just where Davies wanted to take the show and couldn't. I expect we will see more POC in the otherwise very white history the show explores.
They are actors. In Star Trek Wrath of Khan, Ricardo Montalban is clearly aged out of the role of the immortal he is playing. Sometimes we joke about it; but ultimately we accept he is playing a character that looks the same age as his crew, even if he doesn't.
This is that. Guy is pretty good in the role. That is all that matters. Historically TV and movies have done this the other way around (white actors as non-white characters), and we are going to need a lot of black Isaac Newton's before things are fair.
This episode reminded me of Hartnell for some reason. I guess the concept of them landing on some random spaceship gave me Sensorite flashbacks. Plus, I could see that era getting a whole six episodes out of this story. Plus, now that I think about it it is also somewhat similar to The Edge of Destruction.
The Reason the first 2 effects worked the bests (The long arms and the double jointed leg) is becuase they actually did them practially unlike the other effect in the episode, they better interact with the environment around them and look a lot more real (becuase they are) and becuase of that more unsettling and creepy
This really felt like a taste of how different Russell's new Doctor Who will be compared to his first era! Absolutely incredible, I was on the edge of my seat the entire time and it really felt like something Doctor Who has never done before, sure certain aspects are similar to previous episodes but the way it is done is wholly unique and NEW and new is what I want from RTD2 and this delivered that in spades and makes me so much more excited for Ncuti's era! And I'm surprised how much the events of Flux and the Timeless Child affected this episode, I thought we would just be getting some small references but those things actually played quite a big part and we see how all that has affected the Doctor, and I love that!
I loved this episode. Two solid entries so far in the specials. I was very skeptical of RTD coming back at first, and these two stories have sold me on him. Having the Doctor and Donna together again is pure magic. And I was right there with you on the, "oh no, Donna might actually die!" because I could see it happening with another showrunner. And having the not-Thing Donna running around on Earth, in the middle of all that, would just have been too much.
While I'm sad this scene with Wilf is all we have for the specials, I am so, so grateful that Bernard Cribbins was able to come back and film even the one scene. It was beautiful, and made me choke up a bit. Just getting to see the Doctor and Wilf reunite - that grin, the hug, the "I knew you'd find a way to fix things in the end".... I loved it.
When Council of Geeks’ intro has better integration of the diamond logo than the actual title sequence 🫠
I really LOVED the CGI bits. It really creeped me out and kept me guessing wtf was going on.
This episode gave a very lovcraftian vibe
Also felt like a Mix of alien meets the thing meets invasion of the body snatchers
This story was a lot like Midnight, yes, but even moreso it reminded me of the 8th Doctor audio Scherzo. A two-hander with him and Charley, dealing with their issues after he gave up his life to save her and she opted to not be saved anyway, put herself right in the other universe with him.
Last episode was nostalgia. This one is cold and creepy.
My biggest hope for the next episode is that it does both. Nostalgia to really finish off the anniversary celebration, and a little darkness now that the Toymaker is involved
I thought it was nonlinear at first too!! When Donna first came into the room with the Doctor and said she was cold, I thought her delivery was strange, but brushed it off until the Doctor said "My arms are too long" in that same emotionless, yet almost blase tone. Legit sent chills down my spine when I realized we were getting a proper scary episode.
Of course, the scene with them warping and growing while chasing Donna and the Doctor was a bit silly, but I think the weight and tension and threat of the rest of the episode helped make up for that. Definitely a proper scary episode, up there with Midnight and Blink for me.
I do like very much the way that Tennant's Doctor represents a calm centre around which 42 minutes of story revolves, even when he is panicing. I find the more manic Doctors, especially Matt Smith in his later period, a bit wearing in this regard. The pace of the episodes is often fast enough without the lead actor bouncing off the walls.
What if the Doctor *is* half human, and that's why she got left behind at the gate where Tecteun found her? Her family went back through, but either it didn't work for her, or the other side turned out to be something she couldn't survive. And Eight remembered, just briefly, because his memory was so messed up in that story, but the memory was suppressed again almost as soon as it surfaced. That's why the Doctor keeps coming back to Earth, because subconsciously they know their heritage is there, the only part of their heritage they can reach.
I'm so happy rn
Spoiler Warning
This is the best doctor who episode since twice upon a time. Its a solid 9/10 story that I have missed for so long.
After the dissapointment and frustration of the previous episode its so great to see an episode, especially an experimental episode that actually works!
This episode reminds me of listen in a lot of ways, the experimental conceit and the idea of trying to unfold a mystery to which most answers would be unsatisfactory, yet both episodes pull off good solutions.
The horror was extremely well executed and the antagonists were very creative and the right combination of camp and silliness. The whole conceit is very interesting and executed very well.
It is understated and small scale in all the right ways. The corridor does kinda look a bit weird but the effects apart from that are all excellent. Also I love that the climax is just running down the same corridor lol.
This touches into cosmic horror to some extent and since its probably my favorite genre of horror it worked very well.
I love the scene where 14 remembers the flux and somehow in 1 scene I feel 1000x more than I did during flux.
I initially did find the 15 years line weird, but immediatelty realised it was with respect to Donna; This makes the 1 million years wrt Donna hit a lot harder because The Doctor has experienced thousands of years of pain(depending on how you count heaven sent it could be said to be in the billions); Yea it all hurts a lot more.
Oh small nitpick(kinda); I dislike the advertising of this episode as 'Farther than they have ever gone' considering Scherzo definitely and Heaven Sent in terms of the unexplanability of it all would both definitely place higher.
What a nice back to form.
More of this please!
Yeeeees Scherzo is brilliant, thanks for reminding me about that one!
In regards to the special effects, I find it really interesting that the two instances you cited here as working the best for you are the giant arms and Donna's double-jointed leg-- because those two effects _aren't_ CG. They're practical prosthetics. The effects crew made 3D scans of David Tennant, and built _actual_ giant prosthetic arms for him to drag along the ground while he walked, complete with inner mechanisms for him to be able to flex the fingers. The slow-moving robot was also practical as well-- basically, a giant puppet. Between these instances, and the truck flip from "The Star Beast" being real too, I am super impressed and excited that Davies is prioritizing practical effects this much. They apparently have the budget now, and not everything has to be CG. And that's fantastic! I'm completely on board with _any_ production like this making a conscious effort to balance the two types of effects work.
Amazing performance work here from Tennant and Tate, as usual. I did pick up on the "Midnight" vibes, but for me, it also simultaneously felt a little like 14 and Donna being given their own version of "Heaven Sent", too. It's not that often that we get episodes that focus _solely_ on the Doctor and their companion, without any other human characters. The disorienting way the Not-Things were introduced was inspired. And I love how Davies and Tennant handled the Timeless Child and Flux revelations that Chibnall (quite honestly) left unfinished. The Doctor admitting here that the events of the Flux absolutely shattered him, and that he doesn't yet know how to process not knowing where he comes from or being unable to prevent the destruction of half the universe, was so well-handled that I genuinely feel like Davies has retroactively covered for most of Chibnall's writing deficiencies. It recontextualized 13's inexplicable silence about those issues as a deep well of pain and confusion in the character, something the Doctor has difficulty addressing, perhaps just as traumatic for them as the Time War was. I can absolutely buy that. Most importantly, it was the acknowledgment we all needed as fans before we could move on from Chibnall's era.
Thank you for mentioning Heaven Sent. I felt that more than Midnight vibes, myself.
This episode was wonderfully ominous from the get-go. The tension was palpable, allowing me to forget briefly that, of course Donna and the Doctor would make it out ok. This is the best and rarest of great television.
The thing I like about DT being basically 10 again is that it gives us a new way to see how the Doctor has changed. Because the character changes so much from incarnation to incarnation sometimes some of the subtle growth can get lost, but 14 is 10 and yet has the experiences of the last three and RTD shows us some key differences. The Doctor can now say aloud that he loves people, and he's never had those words come out of this mouth. He can also be open about finding a man hot, and he is a lot more of a hugger than he was. I can see how a more different Doctor would give more scope for storytelling, I feel like RTD has chosen depth for these specials and I love it.
I fully agree with this. The moment where 14 kisses Donna's hand as he comforts her really jumped out at me because its not something 10 would have done. Being able to so directly contrast these two iterations makes for such an engaging watch.
The precedent that this episode sets for the upcoming series with Ncuti Gatwa is so exciting. I hope that the new era can have more weird concepts like this in future
The "Are you okay?" "I will be" moment felt like character development to me because of the scene in the library, in the end, when Donna asks 10 "Are you alright" and he replies "I'm always alright" to here where he's admitting that no, he isn't but with time he will get there.
Also, the invoking a superstition at the edge of the universe thing??? What?? That better not just be a throwaway line!
One more thought, no two.
First, yay for the Captain, she deserves all the accolades & our fondest memories. Bless her & her brilliant brain.
Second, and much more important, when the explosion is coming for Donna, I’m 100% sure that 99.9% of her thoughts were for her family back home, to which the no-thing (that has now replicated her entirely!) was headed straight for.
Death is one thing, and she already faced that and accepted it last week on behalf of her family, but this here is a far more horrifying idea. Can’t imagine a worse nightmare, except I’ve kinda had this one, ugh, godawful.
I loved the episode and the interplay between the four of them was great. It was obvious something was off from the start but I'm glad what it actually was wasn't immediately obvious. Yeah, I was the same with Donna's imminent death, even though I knew it wasn't going to happen.
While this episode did affirm that he's not dismissing the whole Timeless Child storyline, I also like that he only picked on the Doctor's origins part and didn't mention the rest. That's the one bit I'm okay with remaining from that and if that's all it is, I'll be happy.
The whole Mavity thing is an example of Chekov's Gun (Any seemingly unimportant element that becomes significant later on in the story). The Doctor and Donna realise why the dead captain is caught up in that ship's gravity-well that helped the Doctor figure out why this ship has to be destroyed with the "Not Things" with it. Something silly such as that mis-hearing of the word became the key to what was the noise of that banging outside the ship.
I thought this episode was great. I’ve heard a lot of people say they were hoping for more, but it was exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for-a creepy, character-driven piece. David Tennant and Catherine state were fantastic. And while the effects weren’t amazing or anything, the uncanny valley feel of it all made me genuinely uncomfortable, which I think was very much the intent. Overall it was probably the most anxious and on the edge of my seat I’ve been while watching Doctor Who in years.
I liked the silly AI and the gradual explanation of the creatures this episode. I don’t need another midnight because, if I want to see that, I can go watch midnight. But they way these creatures were able to bounce between scary to ridiculous and back to scary was amazing. That’s hard to do and watching it unfold was unsettling.
Honestly, I loved what we saw of the No-Things. It feels like a lot of things they can do but it's just one. They morph. They're practically non-Euclydian, they're downright Lovecraftian. And with what little we do know, the 99% that's unknown becomes even more creepy and unnerving.
Also two minor notes: Chibnall was going to explore the fallout of the Flux in the New Year's Special but Covid happened and he basically needed to write Eve of the Daleks at the very last minute. Theoretically he could've made a Flux-related story instead of Legend of the Sea Devils, but that's speculation. The second is that the long arms were actually practically made unlike the other effects (and the teeth, of course, those were obviously prosthetics).
So far this feels more like Doctor Who to me. That Sense of mystery, danger and that less is more. My 1st Doctor was 7 and I recall a story about machine's eating people. It felt like that era of Classic Who were the strangeness of what you're watching hooked you in. I like silly and campy, of Doctor Who. But when it gets strange and dark I feel it's at it's best.
I'm so so thankful we got that small clip with Bernard. I needed Wilf to see 14, for him to know that it all worked out in the end.
RIP Bernard Cribbins. Lovely to see him one more time.
I hope that they give Wilf a respectful resolution, to be honest. I hope they don't just have him being "left" somewhere. I think the character deserves a noble end, as Bernard won't be able to bring him to us, anymore.
As an asexual person, you can find someone hot and not want to have sex with them. I believe the comment here is just Donna calling Issac Newton attractive and finding it to be shocking that he was. I personally don't understand the difference between hot and attractive and to be honest I believe most people use them interchangeablely. Some people might have a difference but having seen people sexualize aces who are alive currently, Donna's remark was basically just a comment on appearance. (I think I rambled here and repeated myself a few times. lol)
Anyway, again we seem to share similar thoughts on the the episode.
Just a quick point on your reference to Newton - I would say it's perfectly fine, if not natural, to find somebody hot with or without their permission. The sexuality of someone doesn't make them any more or less desirable to anybody else, I'd have thought.
The impression from the Cold Open, while light hearted, came back into play with the metaphorical "mavity" of the situation being at the edge of the universe fighting the no-things. Then the random noise being the corpse of the ship's captain caught in the gravity well of the ship setting up why the ship is reconfiguring. Because of that, the Cold Open served as a chekhov's gun and theme for the story. Great review and love your work!
Thank you for saying it reminds you of Heaven Sent, I said the same thing. This episode feels like a mixture of both Midnight and Heaven Sent due to the small cast and tense/eerie nature of it.
I actually had forgotten about the cold open 10 mins into the episode. I don't know why it was there. The fact people are comparing this to "Midnight" (one of the best New Who episodes ever) is a compliment in and of itself.
Certainly my favourite episode since Capaldi. And driven by excellent character writing, the thing that Chibnall could never do.
I loved this episode SO MUCH. The not-things (wonky effects aside) were INCREDIBLY effective and creeped me out majorly. As soon as I realized that not-Donna wasn't Donna, I was overcome with a sense of unease that didn't leave me for the rest of the episode. So. Unsettling.
Something I haven't seen a lot of people mention that I also really liked is having this story be set so soon after the whole timeless child ordeal and doing it while the doctor is, for reasons he doesn't yet understand, revisiting an old face. The impact of running into beings that copy your appearance and get access to your memory just becomes that much greater under those circumstances.
The biggest physical change for me was when the not Donna mentions the timeless child and he believes it's her and then bloop, something about her having him pinned down psychologically it's just the physical stuff she's messed up made it so disturbing. I got Rendezvous on Rama vibes from this episode.
The Newton intro felt so out of place it's something that belongs outside of an episode like an intro for a concert or one of those children specials. Calling Newton hot I mean even if he is asexual he can still be attractive or even vain I mean since Paris Hilton anything can be hot it doesn't mean there's an expectation of sexual acts.
One thing I wish they did (partly because it's a 60th Anniversary special) would have been for fake Donna to talk to The Doctor about the Time War, the loss of companions like Amy and Clara, and more emphasis on the effects of the Flux while fake Doctor teased Donna about not coming back and seeing her daughter and famiky again. I think an additional couple minutes of dialogue and drawing parallels between feeling alone at the edge of space and feeling alone in the universe at times would have been interesting. Perhaps fake Donna could have even teased The Doctor about the Valeyard and a darkness that they continuously try to keep buried.
Forgot to mention: the last five minutes of 'Wild, blue yonder' were enough to make me forgive alot of clunkiness of Star Beast.
So, good to see Wilf and such a beautiful scene.
Lmaooo that little quote from RTD about how he won't retcon Flux because Chris Chibnall is a good friend and that would be rude is so sweet
I think most of what we know of Newton is stuff written later in life. As a young man he may have been quite different. There could have been a trigger at some point that put him off of intimacy. People are complicated, and they change. Even people semi-ace, they have curiosities growing up while figuring themselves out.
Now does finding another man attractive suddenly make someone gay? I don't think that's true, especially for an alien. You can observe that someone is pretty or handsome, hot even, without that equating to sexual attraction. I think lots of people are hot that I have no desire to be with like that. Finding Newton objectively hot, does not signal an orientation. At least it shouldn't. IMO.
yeah, that really confused me. Donna is married with a teen daughter. And they're more squicked out by Donna thinking Newton was hot because Newton might have been asexual? I'm a straight woman, so I'm only allowed to find straight or bisexual men attractive? I mean if I find a gay guy hot before I know he's gay is that a problem? Do I automatically have to put him in a "not hot" category after learning he's gay? I'm sorry, but saying someone is hot doesn't mean, "I'd sleep with them given the chance." sometimes"they're hot" just means "they're pretty to look at."
@@byMidnyt Coming back to this because I just saw someone who is 20 something who I can w/out doubt say is "hot" but it never occurred to me to think of them sexually because I'm 48 and married and just... no! Even making myself try to is like Ewwww, noooo. Now think how old the Doctor is!!
21:47 I hope that RTD will ether add more to the flux and the timeless child stories that make actual sense if in the future it is brought up again and I feel like one of the ways that this could happen would be if the master lied and the master was the timeless child or something similar to the valyard with that being a potential version of the doctor or something that had subconsciously influenced the doctor during their childhood
I just know that RTD was grinning in his chair somewhere knowing how petrified he made everyone feel with that Donna near-death scene😂
I don’t think anyone was petrified we knew she wasn’t going to die RTD would have killed her in the previous episode if he was going to do it.
Genuinely thought she was going to die there with how convincing the copying of the Not-Things were, absolutely just a horrifying, mind-bending piece of Sci Fi.
I love that they got an episode to really play off each other. They are both talented actors and have great chemisty.
This is one of those episodes that starts out great but gets better upon a rewatch, and then another and another... I love it. So many little details and the way its directed... *chefs kiss*
I absolutly adore this episode. For my personal taste, this is very much up there with stuff like Blink and Midnight.
I completely agree with that part about the captain. The over use of CGI had made me a bit ambivalent to everything else in the episode, but there were some GREAT moments - and the Captain was one of them. In a matter of seconds i was actually whelling up with emotion over this selfless sacrifice, and the way they were acknowledging it, with almost like a moments silence for her bravery. It was so very, very sad - and respecful. Masterful moment right there, respect the dead doctor who! Or else why did we care in the first place?
Last episode was wonderful, but _this_ episode reminded me of why I loved _Doctor Who_ to begin with, and why I still do. It feels so good to finally be able to recognize my favorite show again.
Props to you and Sunny. Great to be watching new reviews of yours after such a long time being out of the show
I enjoyed this episode a lot. For many of the same reasons as you. I don't have much to add, but I will say this: Having us think Donna had died or was about to - twice now, makes me worried. RTD does this, he makes us believe characters will die only for there to be a way out of some kind. "this is the day I die" - Rose, but she ended being left on the parallel universe. Donna was going to die, and her 'turn left' version did - but Donna was back in the real reality and then had her memories wiped. They're emotional moments, but now we've had two moments with Donna dying or about to, and I'm afraid he'll finally kill a character off and make it permanent. Will RTD have the gall to kill Donna after those two fake outs? I think it'll be a slap in the face, because we might see it happen and expect a way out. I just don't want Donna to die, like the third time in a row, only this one sticks. I just don't think I'd be able to take it.