The Truth About German Pride & Patriotism
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Two reasons:
- Germany was not a country but different German states and cities.
- Individualism. In old times it was normal to think that somebody is part of a family, nation etc. Even if you did something bad. So it is not just about the cases when you can be proud. They more likely thought that you did it as part of that group. And people was not thinking about in what percentage was your own choice to be in that group. It fits the idea that you have a duty, a fate. And these groups you are born into is part of that fate. The question is not about what you want to do, but to find your duty and fulfill it.
🥺 please research Bletchley Park. It‘s no coincidence germans don‘t wave their flags so much. It‘s all manufactured by psylogical-military operations After WWII @ Bletchley Park, near London. Working thesis was: „How can we take the germans, their germaness- so they‘ll Never become this big again.“ (Prof.William Toel)
Soccer? Not this Weltmeisterschaft... 😕
@@RaxaPKXD Get a grip. This is Deutschland. You lost the first match in Russia. No doubt you will turn it around in the desert.
We have a joke in German that's kinda mean. Don't take this personal but here it is translated: "Americans are so stupid, they need flags everywhere to remind them in which country they are."
Also wrote it on another channel but here is my opinion: We Germans show our patriotism by watching all the reaction videos about Germany and seeing how people react to how great we are - its like a quiet version of patriotism :D
So true 😀
Ach Mist, ertappt? 😅
Und wir schreiben "sprich" unter jeden von einem deutschen stammenden Kommentar, der es wagt englisch zu schreiben. Also SPRICH
du hast "diese kommentarsektion ist nun eigentum der bundesrepublik deutschlands" vergessen🗿
we like to show off our german heritage by opening beer with anything nearby
As a German I have to say, you hit the point about the "regional pride" in Germany pretty spot on and also the comparison of American vs. German pride is pretty accurate. Germany is basically in many aspects still the conglomarate of dutchies and principalities of the holy Roman empire. Having lived in New Zealand too, I can really relate to how their national pride which is super nice and welcoming as a foreigner compares to the German more "cautious" subtle pride.
Sure, however you can't deny that Germany had its phases of extreme nationalism. So, the display of regional pride does seem like a counter movement to that.
@@Siegbert85
No not really.
Extreme nationalism was caused by unfair treatment not by a overwhelming ideal of patriotism.
Never confuse me with a Rhineland palantian!!
@@Siegbert85 they overdid their nationalism.
@@Siegbert85 You're absolutely right about that. The point is, that the very "cautious" pride that is felt in Germany today is a direct consequence of the extreme phases of nationalism which you mention and which we all know about.
Growing up learning about German history I was ashamed to be German. Now that I'm older I on the one hand recognise that there is a lot of good in our culture, mentality and the people and on the other hand have realised how German I truly am while traveling abroad. I am German in the grumpy, closed off way, sometimes very stuck up and rule loving and I'm also German in the poetic, detail oriented, problem solving, rational thinking kind of way. And I feel lucky and happy being part of German culture. I want to contribute to the good of the culture and the people while helping to get rid of the problems and deficits. I would never consider myself patriotic and even though I'm from bavaria I have no regional pride either. I consider myself rather left wing and progressive but I see Germany as my community to which I want to contribute. I don't understand American patriotism where you can only ever say how great things are. It stops you from making things better and divorces you from reality. Real love comes from truly understanding something with all its flaws and weaknesses
Dankeschön,danke
Thats occupational trauma it is so incredibly sad😢
Be patriotic. It feels exceptionally freeing from all the internalised self hatred. I walk around way more confident, have worked on the way how I talk (I now say „Guten Tag“ instead of „Hi“ and talk in a more decent and creative way. I help people where I can as I feel it is my duty to serve the nation all in all it had only benefits for me to develop a true and honest love for my nation, ancestors, history, language, people and identity
Hail
feel ashamed for what happened to Germany, poor brainwashing that they have done to the "Germans" if you can call them that, they have always tried to stop Germany, they have sabotaged it, they have declared war on it, they have modified history in favor of the victorious patriotic heroes like Otto von Bismarck, even Hitler was a patriot, he raised the economy that was an industrial disaster, the country gave them back honor and patriotism, hope for Germany, the German army of the Second World War was one of the best that ever existed. And that having against the British intelligence that deciphered the enigma code, if you do not feel patriotism for the German past, you are nothing more than a son of a Russian from the women raped by the Soviets.
I think the flag here just serves a different purpose: The German flag functions kind of like a name tag. Seeing it says "Hi, I am from Germany" which is why you'll see it every time Germans are together with people from other countries. At sporting events, with exchange students, during any international competition. Because you wanna represent the country! But INSIDE the country? People here don't see a necessity for it. Imagine if your brother wore a name tag at home. That's what it would be like if someone in Germany puts up a German flag. Like... what do you wanna say with that? We all know you're German. Why do you need to point it out? 😅🫠
Actually a good take
Perfect analogy 👌🏻
Exactly!
"Imagine your brother wore a name tag at home." Wow...what a great way of describing it. Thanks for this genius insight, Lucas!
Well, not bad.
Not bad at all 🤙🏾
When I lived in another country (Australia) I used to have a little German sticker on my car. Now I am back in Germany, I would never do this, because it might put me in a certain corner of the political spectrum, I don't want to be associated with. On the other hand, the village I grew up in, and live in again was merged with a neighbouring village in 1970. After 50 years it is still "us" and "them"!
Unsere Eingemeindung haben wir die letzten 50 Jahre auch gekonnt ignoriert ^^.
The german flag doesn't put you in a political spectrum, it merely shows the country. This thinking is another small part of the reason why you don't see german flags in Germany.
An Eastern European here, living in Switzerland: regarding "it might put me in a certain corner of the political spectrum, I don't want to be associated with" - I have very similar feelings, I proudly show "my colors" here in Switzerland (we are a Czecho-Slovak family, so both Czech and/or Slovak flag or coat of arms, depending on situation), but for a long time, the only people back in CZ/SK who were waving the flag have been types I really didn't want to be associated with.
It's actually changing a bit last months, especially in Czechia, where decent people decided to "take the flag back" from the nationalist (usually ruSSia-backed and Kremlin's propaganda spreading) morons, but it will probably never reach the level like here in Switzerland, where you see the Swiss flag everywhere (I'd say like in the US, but I've never been there yet, so cannot compare).
@@Dan-kr9bm unsere Steht kurz bevor und wir versuchen die ganze Zeit unsere Nachbarorte der noch nicht eingemeindet wurden gegen den bereits Eingemeindeten zu tauschen damit wir einen Puffer zwischen uns und der Stadt haben
@@Dan-kr9bm das sind immernoch die oberunterbacher und wir die unteroberbacher, mit egal ob das mein Nachbar ist!
As a foreigner born and raised in Germany I really am impressed with your 110% accurate perception of the culture and attitude. And the way you deliver this is very, very careful / respectful. Thank you.
Careful and respectful
Well are you really a foreigner in a country you were Born and raised Up in ?
i m german and i agree with his view. that is what most germans think about the topic
@@IrgendeinDeutscher germans never see us as fully german. I am born and raised in german too, my grandparents came to germany 50 years ago from southern europe and i still get called a foreigner.
Absolutely agree! NALF, you are a smart guy.
So I spent a few months at a Canadian High School as an international student. And my teacher one day gave the assignment to write about why everyone was proud to be Canadian. She then looked at me and went: oh, you just go ahead and write about why you are proud to be German. I just blinked at her rather stupidly and recallibrated my brain to think about a concept entirely foreign to my upbringing and education 😅
Stuff like this is done, in part because Canada, like the USA, mistreats natives and occupies native land against their will. By raising children to have blind pride in their country, they will end up blending out the past and ongoing atrocities against natives and they'll grow up thinking that either no wrong was/is being done to natives or that the native's claims about their current , bad situation is vastly overexaggerated.
@@ligao9378 interesting. I always figured it was mostly a product of a very multicultural group of people carving out a common identity in a very short period of time and over a vast territory. I‘m saying multicultural, not multiethnic, because I am aware that „Americana“ is a mostly white phenomenon. But at the same time, the Caucasian immigrants came from countries that at the time and even generations later were at war with one another in their homelands. Some of that was carried with them to the „new world“, with the general dislike of Irish or any roman catholic immigrants in the 1800s, but mostly it‘s surprising how centuries of wars and conflict between nations were forgotten when people immigrated. Or rather, it was replaced by an overly keen pride in their new country and passed on to the next generations.
@@alexk7973 Irish participated in and enforced the violent Chinese exclusion and Chinese expulsion of the 19th century, while the Catholic Church did its best to eradicate as much of native culture as possible. (See Canada's Residential Schools for natives.)
Certain, White North Americans like to present themselves only as victims, but ignore what actually happened/is happening. Their children then grow up believing that their ancestors only suffered from an unfair situation, instead of them having not just been the enablers, but the creative minds, the directors and enforcers of a highly system.
This "melting pot," this "comradery" you point at in your comment is born and functions as a tool of a white supremacist ideology.
European and North American school books mostly ignore what they did or do to non-white groups and at best give very vague, zoomed out descriptions of what was done/is being done to non-white groups, without trying to hint at the cause of their problems. None of the white authored books ever look at what these groups wrote about the circumstances in the 19th century, for example, or look at the details of actions against non-white groups, or actually analyze political movements by natives, or how white supremacist politicians tried to squash them. It's to the point that those seeking a degree in history, focussing on the colonial history, don't even have to read native or other literature. They're not even required to learn the native languages, which would enable them to read said literature. In contrast, the same students do have to take lessons in French or Latin or other white languages, so they can read what white people thought.
In the best of circumstances white people in this situation hastily talk about non-white groups. Sometimes they may even talk to them, but never talk with them.
@@ligao9378 I agree with you there, when I was attending the Canadian High School I chose to take the First Nations Studies course for that particular reason and was rather shocked that, unless you were taking that particular elective, you could essentially go through your whole school career never learning about all the different nations that have been living on this territory for millennia.
So maybe I‘m making a mistake here, as an outsider to North American culture in general, but I‘ve been under the impression that extreme patriotism as a culturally acceptable, or rather expected, behavior is mainly a „white“ thing, isn‘t it? Wouldn‘t the self-image this particular group has, be the driving factor behind their cultural values? i.e. seeing themselves as victims, rather than perpetrators (which of course, one can be both, they don‘t exclude each other. Just look at how many school bullies have at one time been bullied themselves), promoting freedom and inclusion, rather than domination and exclusion and so on. This leads me to think, that people hailing from all over Europe coming together and seeing themselves as just one nation, at a time where even countries like Germany were still partitioned up in lots of little kingdoms and regularly warring with each other must have felt very progressive and inclusive to those people. And made an impact on early patriotism. The fact that many other people who were a part of building the nations and countries of North America weren‘t and still to some aren‘t included in their patriotism non-withstanding.
@@alexk7973
How is that a surprise?
In multicultural groups 99% of the times it's not people that wage wars against each other but governments.
When it comes to race it's often sadly another story. That's why these conflict are so much harder to end.
The thing is that germany is basically 16 little countries wearing a trenchcoat to look like they are one. I think a big reason why we show so little pride in our country is because we aren't quite sure how we actually manage to pull it off like that. The regional differences are astounding. In terms of language alone. I'm from around Hannover witch puts me in the wierd situation that every german can understand me without problem, but i can't understand a word of like half of the regional dialekts that exist here. Was in rural Bavaria once and couldn't for the hell of it understand this older gentleman when i asked him for directions. Has been easier to communicate in god damn Tanzania for me than in southern germany. Puts things into perspective.
I mean... that's no different for the U.S.
It's way different in L.A. than it is in Texas or Minnesota
You get used to it...
@@Boegi the language isn't tho, and even culturally, if there even is an american culture at all
I think this is a HUGE exaggeration! Of course there are differences between the federal states, but there are also differences between regions (for instance, I am from the Thuringian forest but we are totally different from those from the „Thuringian sink“ in the East). Moreover, all countries have this issue. Doesn’t matter if you are in Spain, Italy or Japan
That bavarian was probably able to speak Hochdeutsch, he just preferred not to
i think the regional pride is so much stronger bc it's the same culture so it's actually something you feel closely connected with, while germany as a whole can be hard to sum up, regions are a lot more concise and have more shared experiences and influences etc. when i moved from the north to the west there were a lot of times i noticed big differences in my friends' upbringing and experiences compared to mine, be it differences in school systems, different dialects, different festivals, different humour, generally different mindsets,... you could definitely tell a difference and after i moved to the north again i found it easier to relate to the people around me again and to bond with them
and then being proud of germany is often associated with certain view points like not liking anything non german like foreigners or religions that aren't christianity etc. germany is so different in different regions that i don't even know what i'm supposed to be proud of or closely associate with. i have an emotional connection to things like the kieler woche, fischbrötchen, plattdeutsch, the hamburger hafen and all that northern stuff but i have no connection to carneval, cuckoo clocks, käsespätzle and i don't even understand bavarian. it just doesn't feel like it personally relates to me
You already go in the right direction. The root of the "problem" is history. To US-americans it feels like bragging when we remind them of our long history, like buildings that still stand and were old already when the american continent was first "discovered".
But beyond the bragging and the cliche that's really it. The regions in Germany (and elsewhere in Europe, too, of course) had over a millennium of history, before the idea of a united Germany was even born. And ever since that first unification almost 152 years ago we had an empire, two world wars, two dictatorships, total destruction, an occupation, a reunification that arguably hurt more than it helped and generations of politicians too scared to use their political and economic power for fear of stepping on other countries' toes. Really nothing much to be proud of.
Which explains why pride in Germany as a whole is rather dim, while pride in a specific region is way stronger. Ask people what they're identifying as and you get way more people identifying as bavarians, hessians, berliners etc than people identifying as germans.
As German I can absolutely relate.
People mostly forget that "Germany" is a century younger than the US (and "German" citizenship even younger, established in the 1930s when the different states were disempowered).
the kieler woche or tequila woche xd
I agree. I don't feel like I'm German, I feel like I'm a Schleswig-Holsteiner :-)
Repeating a phrase each morning, makes the phrase completly meaningless, and the act is simply a brainwash. Cause nobody has the option to skip it, to question it, or to actually mean it. It's enforcement.
Patriotismus geht auch anders
❤️
I went to a religious school, we had to do prayers, at least on the first years, later it because just morning announcements time.
It is the fact that the phrase is recited by a group of people which forms a strong unity between them. It does not matter if it is a phrase, a song or an anthem but the fact that many different people join in together to form a ritual, a tradition. As a matter of fact, German leftists do seek every oppotunity to extinguish any kind of national pride. This is why the German society will fall apart step by step.
@@carlosvalderama3865 The last time in Germany something like this was done 50.000.000 people died. Do you want this to repeat?
I am half American half german and I grew up in Germany (Berlin). When I went to the US to live there for a year and went to Highschool- I was so shocked with all of the patriotism there.
Even though I’ve grown up with American movies and an American dad, I still did not expect it the way it happened.
The flag was EVERYWHERE on every corner: every store, restaurant, mall, and even people’s own houses. And then of course at school in EVERY SINGLE CLASSROOM. I thought that was low-key creepy. Oh and they did the pledge of allegiance every morning at school.
And I’ve asked around and noticed that every single other person from Europe felt weird about it too. It sometimes reminded me of China or the DPRK (no offense it’s just what I thought and I mean- I am American too lol).
I talked to my US history teacher about it and she told me that she understands that it would be weird for me and she told me that everyone there is just used to it so they wouldn’t even think about it. And she also told me that it is required for her to have a flag in her classroom (if she could choose she wouldn’t have one).
I talked to my family about it too- and I talked with other Europeans and other Americans and I think it’s very interesting to see how all of the Europeans (that I have talked to or heard from) think about it like I do. We feel weird about it. And all the Americans are used to it and don’t really seem to question it. Especially those that have never left the US and do not watch international news. Lol. That’s also a thing: the standard news there are mostly just focused on the US. Whereas here in Germany the standard news cover ALL big things going on in the world (at least that’s how I feel about it).
Many interesting things.
Totally agree of this neing creepy. Being proud of a "nation" (whatever this might be??) is the first step to Nationalism.
Why should a banker in Munich be proud of the accomplishment of some ingeneers in Hamburg who designed a beautiful ship, just because they happen to live in the same country? This is just irrational.
@@HA-gu1qk Nationalism isnt necessarily a bad thing, i think you are refeering to Facism, an ideology that Hitler based National-Socialism on
@@spooqus6541 WW1 was because of Nationalism. Nationalism is irrational, because there are weaklings out there with low self esteem and they need to feel as a part of something bigger, so they can say, "Hey this GERMAN Ingeneers in Hamburg buuild this awesome GERMAN ship, so I am proud to be GERMAN" , while he lives somewhere in a village in Bavaria owning a pub, having done nothing great with his life."
@@HA-gu1qk well idk what type of nationalism you are reefering to but normal nationalism is that you are proud being a part of a certain group, like germans being proud to be part of such a great country like germany
You hit the topic spot on here. I especially liked that you played the first chords of Germany's national anthem after the Pledge of Allegiance. I missed you making the connection between the two, though. The first verse of the German national anthem is freely translated "Unity and justice and liberty for the German mother country. Let us all brotherly strive for this with heart and hand". Yes, we don't pledge allegiance regularly, but whenever we sing our anthem, we should really mean it. And that's bigger than the difference between bavaria and prussia.
Whoa, I think you hit the nail on the head and I just never realized it.
I was born in the Rhineland region as the child of immigrants and absorbed the culture subsequently. I only ever realized I had patriotic feelings for good old Germany when I went to Vienna for six years and saw how different that culture is. But the kicker truly is that upon going back... it was important to me to go back to my home region. I'm back in the Rhineland and whenever I told Austrians/Viennese people about why I miss home... I would qualify my statements by prefacing them with a "Well, mainly in the Rhineland with it's jolly culture it's x, y..."
I loved vienna too. Still can do the accent and there will always be a little piece of me that misses the dorky Austrians. And my heritage gives me another facet of culture: my slavic roots and the pains inflicted by Russia are something I feel to this day, by proxy of my family and their stories. I was the first child born in freedom, after an escape plot, right before the system over there collapsed. It's strong bonds that go deep into history for sure.
But... most outwardly and in my day to day life... I'm a frickin Rheinländer. I hate Karneval, but I'll miss it when it's not celebrated. I can speak a blend of Dutch and German most Germans just think is funny. I make jokes about Kölsch and Alt to see the two parties go at each other. Big city folks are so serious about this stuff...
I'm a Rheinländer who loves his flat horizont and my Mantaplatte and the tongue in cheek humor of my people.
Thank you for making me realize!
Mantaplatte 🙏
Well well.. then you know how Kölsch is made? Give a horse Alt to drink and wait.. what's coming out at the other end of the horse... Voila, Kölsch 🤪
herst oida, wos soll dorky heißen bei Österreichern???
@@l4bells851
Genau das! 😂
Piefke, spü di ned! Wos haast deppat?
You did a good job analysing this topic👌
Here in Bavaria we make jokes about those guys living on the other side of the river. But when we meet them in another state we happily recognize that we are from the same region - different to the those in that other state.
The more you think about it the more hilarious it gets😂
Yeah bjt quite sad isnt it? How about see yourself as germans all together thats what germany was founded for...to end the senseless hostilitys and wars between german states.
@@Future183 For me personally Germany as a national state is just one of many layers of identification. I'm a local in my town, I'm a Bavarian, I'm German, I'm European and I'm a member of global mankind. Also being a EU citizen decreases the importance of nationality for me. Generally speaking people should be respectful to one another no matter where they are from.
Never. Making fun of that clearly inferior species living in the neighbouring village is half the fun in life. I mean we jokingly hate each other but in the end we will still stick together (although ofc as a bavarian i'd prefer any austrian over a non bavarian german)
Als Schleswig-Hplsteiner hat man eine angeborene Antipathie ggüber Bayern. Wenn man älter wird realisiert man, das does richtig ist. Undankbares Bundesland ~
@@ioannishoeft1272 Yeah thats what i mean. Befor the allies f*cked up being german and befor ww2 there were no st*pid childish hostilitys between german states and everyone saw themself as a german and Stick together evrytime...
I'm not a German, but a Luxembourger, though I lived in Germany for several years. Here's what 19th century philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer had to say about patriotism. I think it encapsulates nicely the European, and specifially German, way of thinking about this:
"The cheapest sort of pride is national pride; for if a man is proud of his own nation, it argues that he has no qualities of his own of which he can be proud; otherwise he would not have recourse to those which he shares with so many millions of his fellowmen. The man who is endowed with important personal qualities will be only too ready to see clearly in what respects his own nation falls short, since their failings will be constantly before his eyes. But every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority."
to go high level criticism,im not letzemburgian,im an idiot so that does not count.
Top comment. Hinfrom Blieskastel, Saarland. My neighbor
Happy to know that Shopenhaur turned out to be wrong in the end. National pride is a necessary part of any any country and people.
@@klavassassini it is you who is wrong, not Schopenhauer.
@@revylokesh1783 Shopenhauer's thinking against national pride has proven to be wrong because the Western world is rejecting globalist ideas-lack of national pride being one of them. In the US and even Europe there is a resurgence of national pride and national identity/heritage. Notice how Western Europe is run amok with illegal Africans and Arabs in country's whose leaders embrace anti-nationalism compared to nations with that strong social glue l Iike Albania, Hungary, and Russia.
Sehr schön beobachtet. Man merkt, dass Du schon länger hier bist und mit offenen Augen durch die Gegend läufst.
Sehr sympathischer Content im Ganzen.
We have pledged enough allegiance for a thousand years. I feel committed to the Basic Law of Germany (Grundgesetz) and I am not proud to be German, but feel very lucky to be.
Well said. Same here.
@Agamemmon Padar … a German here born and raised in Germany and now living in Canada .. and I must say I’m PROUD to be a German and I’m lucky to be German and I hate it that we not show our German proud. And I wish no one ( especially ) here in Germany question why I’m or we are proud of our Home Country Germany.
@@wolfgangselle3272 I really hope we will never do what you which for, i would hate it. If you feel proud to be german, fine..but why do you feel a need to show it with flags and songs?
@@sentoo7606 why with flags and songs? I have not said something about that! And with “ showing “ proud I wanted mostly saying that we can say we are Germans without all the times ask around the world about our darkest hour ( 1933 - 1945) in our history. U have no ideas how people ask me “only” about just this time period. That really pissed me off.
@@wolfgangselle3272 ahh ok.
Sure sometimes i get a question as well, but most of the time i dont.
Being American, I grew into feeling discomfort with "Pride". I think the way we use the feeling of being proud should change. As you described "I'm proud of you", to me it feels more emotional by expressing happiness. "I'm happy for you!"
I'm not and never have been a "proud American". The closest I will come is saying that I am proudly from Wisconsin, however therein hits closer to the definition because there is some decision and action behind it (I was born in Illinois and also moved around a lot)
Regarding flags, I think more people should experience something like I did. Hannover was the first city I visited in Germany and It's the first place that I stood and then saw photos from the Nazis time. Hannover's Maschsee is a popular spot and seeing a photo of the nazi flag flying on flag poles that are still there....is chilling, you feel it then. There is a gazebo at the lake and I have seen a photo of Adolf himself standing there. I have never walked into it because of that, because its burned into my mind now.
Pride can easily become a bad thing.
Nationalism is more bad than good.
Patriotism should be better than what it is, I think the German example you gave is the way is should be. (I think its funny how in the US the "Patriots" who you hear talk about needing to "take care of our people first" also won't agree to anything like socialized medicine. But that's another topic)
At the Maschsee there are also statues from back then. There is a naked statue of a "perfect" couple, a pillar with a statue of an olympic runner presumably heiling you know who and so on. The only thing they removed was a flagpole and they chiseled away a swastika from that aforementioned pillar but they kept the Reichs eagle who held that swastika.
@@IceBro yeah that's right. But seeing "artifacts" like that doesn't hit me as hard as the photos did. I am really surprised that the statue of the couple and the eagle are still there. Oh, another shock for me was at the nearby Friedhof! There is a slightly hidden area were a bunch of nazi soldiers are buried including some level of ranking officer pilot. It's hidden within a circle of trees and bushes and there is no marked pathway, just an opening in the bushes and very easy to not see.
As a German I have to say, that you pretty much nailed it in this video. I would only add one thing: I´m 44 years old I think that from my generationand and younger more and mor people are getting sick of having to feel ashamed of the german past. When I was born, Nazi times were over for 35 years already. Even my grandfather was so young, he was not drafted for military by the Nazis. So we should look ahead and create our own History, without forgetting the past. I think many of my "agemates" somehow think in a way like this.
I'm 41 and I agree.
No German should be ashamed you don’t see Turks alive today ashamed of what the ottomans did or Brits ashamed for their empire
When I heard about the pledge to the Flag and its wording I only thought about what my Grandma told me about going to school in germany in the early 1940s and how things changed after the war ended. Children of 8 years old not understanding why doing 'the salute' was suddenly wrong and stuff like that. Any Indoctrination at that age is just f-ed up. Feeling lucky to live in a time and place where (most) teachers promoted and encouraged independend and critical thought
You're a great observer 👍
and analyst 🤓
and I learnt one more time something about my country by watching your video ✌
First Mettbrötchen, now this. Nalf isn't afraid to tackle controversial topics. 😬
Nalf isn’t afraid of anything, that’s why I feel proud of him ! 😉 Always a treat to hear his comments
Intresting that you mentioned younger people are more open to show the flag than older ones. There was one key event bevore that you have basically never seen a german flag anywhere. That was the football world cup in Germany 2006. After that event it was more common and also not as frowned on to show the German flag in public. It's still a rare sight for the reasons you described, but it made a noticable difference to before the word cup. I think you can find old german news articles talking of the "new found pride" during the world cup.
I love your nuanced insight into Germany and German culture.
As a German myself, I must say that (almost) every one of your observations are phenomenally accurate and hit home for me, as did this one.
Thank you & keep up the great work
The thing you said about 'closeness of assosciation' / who you feel you can be proud for resonated with me (German). You yourself talked about this thing with Germans where it's much harder to form a friendship or get into an inner social circle but once you're in your're IN while in the US a lot of people are very quick to be friendly and open to people, invite them, call them friends but it's usually a much bigger circle that is for the most part much less close and serious. Many people that US-American would have met they would say 'yeah that's a friend' and a German would say 'Nah das ist ein Bekannter (an aquaintance)'.
Couldn't we also map the 'proud' thing to that? Germans feel immense (and often open) pride to people and places they have gotten to know for a long time. They took the time to form this connection and now taht the connection is there and deep you feel connected and feel pride. But the concept of 'Germany' is a whole is too far away, too lose, too different. That's why it works for soccer and the national team (you have a clos econnection to the sport and feel you know the players) VS smth like German foreign policy or smth vague like 'being German'.
US-citizens on teh other hand, just like with their openness to a much bigger but loser social circle also see a much loser connection as enough to feel proud and so there is a lot of pride in anything titled as 'American' even if noone really know what it means or teh implications are kind of iffy. Just like with a lose american friendship you don't actually go thqt deep with the concept.
Just some thoughts 🤔
Fantastic video and take on the German way of thinking of their country!
My wife is originally from Czechia but lived in Cologne for many, many years. Her patriotism for that town and love of anything Koelsch is unfathomable. We have pictures, flags, quotes, icons .... you name it, we got it .... from Cologne all over the house! She watches Karnival live on TV with tears rolling down her cheeks. She follows the success (or not) of the 1.FC soccer club with passion. She only drinks beer out of 2cl glasses.
but when it comes to Germany, or Czechia for that matter, ..... pffft ..... couldn't care less.
Warm greetings from Cologne to you and your wife! 😊
in köln trinkt man bier aus 2 cl gläsern? 😳🤯
Bravo !!!
Very well explained! I am always impressed by your deeply rooted understanding of our German history and culture. - Thank you Nalf! ❤️
I have been thinking about this topic very often in the last weeks and you hit it! Thank you for this video.
i always love the comment section under your videos!! so reflective and educational
"One can only love this country with a broken heart" Bundespräsident F.-W. Steinmeier. Best description of true german patriotism!
Watch The Video DEUTSCHLAND from the Band Ramstein - it's just the way I feel
Mittlerweile ist das Zitat: „Denk ich an Deutschland in der Nacht, bin ich um meinen Schlaf gebracht“ passender;)
@ Jup das Lied bringts auch gut auf den Punkt...
@@m.s.8927 Bei den ganzen Blaubraunen, die sich breit machen, plus Querdulli Egoismus während der Pandemie, ja, stimmt, sehr viel passender.
if you consider Steinmeier a patriot you are smoking crack
Thank you for this very well researched and respectfully portrayed documentation of the lack of German pride and the existence of what we call local patriotism. It was always difficult for me to explain to foreigners, now I can just link back to this video.
Dude... you nailed the whole topic on the spot. Great Video. Greetings from Cologne.
Hey Nalf, well done. I really think you have a good point about regional "patriotism" and I appreciate your honest considerations about American patriotism.
Keep up the good work man.
"But it is a different flag!" - This shows the lack of understanding for the core problem. It's not about the swastika vs. black, red, gold. The "bad" flag vs. the "good" flag. I would argue Germans now, after living through this hell, have a much deeper understanding of what you should honor as a nation...and it is not a piece of cloth. It is what it stands for. I get the feeling that people in the US are much more outgoing with their patriotism, while they have a very weak grasp on what the flag represents. And I am not talking states and founding states, but on what values those were built. They seem to focus on their rights much more than on the responsibilities that need be ingrained to make those rights have any meaning. Just waving the flag, while screaming "Freedom!!"...while being in the process of storming the Capitol to stop the democratic transfer of power is such a good image to illustrate the lack of understanding. Another would be hailing the military and soldiers for their service...when that service is killing civilians and committing other war crimes in an illegal war, started on lies and waged for profit and power. But...yay, democracy!!
And there lies the danger of such a shallow understanding of what rights have to be balances with what duties. Manipulation by playing on this pride, this lack of knowledge, this fear of "the others" is so much simpler when you can just put a flag in it and rally everybody around it, switching off their brains and ability to differentiate between what is right and what is wrong.
That is what happend in Germany. People were poor, unemployed, the economy was down the drain and then came a charismatic leader who promised he will make everything great again (sounds familiar, right?). And he did. For a price, plunging the country deep into debt with no plan to get out again...except starting a war. And his party adopted the swastika flag, to which Germans had to pledge allegiance whenever it was hoisted or flown. And if you did not greet the flag, you got your behind kicked or could also be thrown into jail. There was no longer any meaning behind it, it was just your duty to hail the flag, now void of all the values people put into it in the early years and loaded with hate. A hollow puppet.
This is why Germans avoid any chance to get back into this habit. There is no need to run around with a flag, because you do not need it to be reminded of your rights and duties. Those are not written on the flag, but in the Grundgesetz.
Thank you for this highly accurate Description of a subject which is indeed complicated.
Very nice research , thank you for that !!
Nick, I have to say it again. I just LOVE your videos. And your analysis on German pride and patriotism is absolutely correct. I admire your ability to understand this country so precisely. Well done. To talk with you must be a joy.
Being from Ireland I was surprised by the lack of pride Germans show because of their history compared to the British. Both have a history of committing terrible acts of violence. I live close to Northern Ireland, and every time I Cross the border, there is Union Jacks everywhere. Britain would be similar to USA in that way. They teach their own history well in Germany but that is not the case in Britain. Many wouldn’t be aware of atrocities. It’s an interesting topic.
Ireland too are a very proud nation but we don’t have our flag all over the country. It’s more in our culture I would say.
Happy belated Thanksgiving btw ;)
Great video! You hit the nail on the head!
Hi Nalf. I´ve seen you today first time in a "Feli from Germany " Video and checked out your channel.
I was surprised in a VERY positive and objective way, how open you analized that very serious topic here in
Germany! You spoke right out of my mind!
Thanks for that!
Proud to not be proud matches it perfectly. Glad in a collective society sense on the other side is the right term to describe the feeling you often hear and see in our country. Adding up to that, it's really more about regional or local identity like you mentioned by referring to the Cologne/Düsseldorf example. Sometimes it even goes down deeper to the neigborhood level, way before one talks about some touch of national identity. Big props for this video pointing it out that clearly!
Chapeau my friend that is a well researched piece of entertainment. The battle of worringen bro respect. You did your homework
Good take! Couple of perspectives I haven’t given a thought yet, but they make total sense. Keep it up!
There is a great bit in Terry Pratchetts book Night Watch where two officers discuss if raising the flag and singing the anthem are acts of treason or not. They settle on „suspicious“ but not treason. The bit ends with one of the officers saying something like „we don’t run around telling people that we are the greatest, we just are!“
I like the fact that the second verse of the anthem of Ankh-Morpork goes: "ner ner ner ner ner ner ner ner..." because nobody ever remembers the second verse anyway 😁
@@annamo9354 That‘s hilarious! 😂
GNU Terry Pratchett.
Spot on topic and happy thanksgiving!
As a US military family; our daughters are German/Americans and attended Italian schools as well when we stationed in Italy. When we moved back to California my girls thought I was joking that the pledge of allegiance was recited each day at school. They were shocked the first day of school.
With regards to patriotism, I believe the two countries on on the opposite ends of a patriotic-spectrum. On one side, you have to wonder how much German history and the German burden (and all the WWI and WWII memorials, discussions, movies and constant reminders) impact German's sense of pride as a nation. On the other side of the spectrum, I wonder how much the US flag is seen as a symbol for independence and freedom for so many generations. It's also has expanded, not only being associated to Independence Day celebrations, but many so many other things: sporting venues, school events, merchandise, etc. Ironically, many military members I know are very conservative on overly displaying the flag and hyping up patriotism.
I really liked the VLOG on NFL popularity in Germany from a historic perspective. While stationed at Rhein-Main in the early 80s, the military football league was huge (believe it was called the Continental Sport Conference). The base commanders were fully behind their base teams and greatly enjoyed all the bragging rights that went with it. Fun Fact: Like college athletes who are in reality full time football players, many of US Air Force football players were on paper working on the flight line or in other sections, but were in reality fact full-time football players. LOL.
Keep the VLOG cultural differences coming and continued success. Greg
The U.S. history with slavery, Native American genocide and land theft from Mexico is a tainted as German, British, Spanish or French history. The only difference is that the victor nation dictates what is written in the school history books.
WOW man, really good Video.
Loved it!
This is so interesting to watch as a german. Thanks mate!
Couldn't agree more. As a born and raised German and having lived in the U.S. for a very long time, I've experienced both sides. The first time I got introduced to the national U.S. anthem, was at the movie theater on an American military base. Before the movie started, everyone got up and the anthem was played. So I correlated it, to being something the military did. After I moved to the U.S., it wasn't as prevalent as it is now. An occasional flag here or there, and nobody drove around in their pick-ups with giant flags and/or stickers, advertising "I am a true patriot". Being a self proclaimed patriot nowadays, almost gives me the heebie jeebies since I feel, the true meaning got hijacked by the wrong people. Just because you wrap yourself into a flag literally and figuratively, a kind of in your face boisterous attempt at showing others up, is reminiscent of I'm sad to say, history possibly repeating itself, just in another country and another flag. I hope, I am wrong.
well the first attempt failed. we will see if the US can fortify itself against a second attempt or if they'll try again.
You know, I always have a problem with the "it got hijacked by the wrong people" thing.
This goes for ideas, words, symbols, everything - hell, even flying the German flag nowadays raises some eyebrows because some right wing parties do it too often.
Why would you let these "wrong people" dictate the meaning of things? If they use it in their sense - fine. But that shouldn't affect the majority at all.
I am proud of our great community in northern lower saxony , because when the corona pandemic broke out very severely and a lot people were sick.We helped each other because we were not allowed to leave the house.Then took over and put the shopping in front of the door. Here we help each other with problems. I´m happy about this team spirit and that`s why i don`t need a german flag, but anyone who has a flag is also ok. ☺💜
Also bei Sachsen und "Patrioten" kommen bei mir auch immer ganz schlechte Assoziationen auf...
jk btw
I liebe deinen kanal so sehr!
You sum it up perfectly!!!😊👍🏻
for a country that only has two neighbouring nations and that has most of its population never traveling out of the country i always found it pretty hilarious that Americans seem to have to constantly remind each other just where they are and just how proud they are of their country. it's like a man who lives alone on an island and his only huge treasure is a mirror and he spends all day congratulating himself of being the most handsome man in the world XD
I'm Mexican and we are very nationalists too, and It was a shock when I moved to Germany, because I even thought they would have a big Festival on the German unity day, like we have on the Independence day, but absolutley nobody cared 😂.
Yeah that is since the allies put a wooden Stick up their ass after ww2
True nothing like you would see in a Cinco de Mayo celebration or Fourth of July celebration in the USA!
Oh yeah. There are quite a few days in the year in Germany that ARE a big deal and I fully understand coming from the Americas how you would think unitfication day would be one of THE biggest ones. After all what's one of teh biggest things you learn about Germany abroad after WW2? Berlin wall, divided, the videos of people celebrating unification. And then you're in Germany and people go 'ah yeah Tag der Deutschen Einheit tomorrow... wanna go see a movie or smth? I completely forgot. I don't have plans!' 😅😄
@@Future183 That's because denazification in Germany was successful. And in the wake of establishing a reformed German nation, most of us Germans have returned to the regional pride that we are already familiar with.
E.g. I may have been born in Dresden, Saxony's capital, but I never associated the Saxon culture with my family's Baltic (Mecklenburg-Westpomerania) and Arab (Syrian) culture.
I have genuine disdain for conservative Saxons and feel most at home on the Baltic Coast, where I am studying at a university now.
@@dansattah Eben nicht. Das hat nichts mit der denazifikation zu tun da das deutsch sein nicht mit dem nazi sein zu tun hat. In keinster weise. Die allierten haben mit absicht einen Keil in das deutsche volk geschoben. Und vorher war das für Jahrzehnte oder zumindest seit Deutschland gegründet wurde nicht der Fall also kann man schon mal nicht sagen das die deutschen zum regionalen stolz zurück gekehrt sind weil sie es schon gewöhnt waren. Waren sie eben nicht.
Ich habe vorfahren aus preußen und somit wahrscheinlich ebenfalls baltische Wurzeln dennoch sehe ich absolut nichts falsches am deutsch sein. Es kommt mir einfach dumm,kindisch und irgendwie ignorant diese rivalitäten zwischen deutschen einzelstaaten wobei wir doch so viel mehr aus deutschland machen könnten vereint.
Very interesting and comprehensible considerations!
Long story short, one of the best analyses i have seen.
Always a good day when the NALF pats a video😉
as to your content: I love the creative way you include your sponsor! Well done, really!
as to national pride: being Austrian I think I know the feeling… growing up ( in the 80’ies and 90’ies) being proud of your country or being proud being Austrian wasn’t an option. I think we were still full in finally-coping-with -what-has-happened-mode. There were still many survivors of the war, many grand parents who witnessed the 3rd Reich or fought in the war. The first at least two decades everyone just wanted to forget. Out of shame, but also out of deep traumatisation. Then the 70er came along and all those questions were posed (where were you, why didn’t you do something, where did you fight, ….). So slowly the process of dealing with unspeakable trauma began, and I think it is still not finished. While I was in my teens I think Austria was still in the phase of admitting guilt, which is what I grew up noticing. After a long time of either not admitting one’s own responsibility or just not being able to deal with the monstrosities many had witnessed I think it was necessary to face and accept this side of our history. But this also led to at least one generation of Austrians who rather felt ashamed that proud regarding their origins. I only in recent years this is changing, I think. I am not saying, that there aren’t still too many idiots who cling on to those abominable ideologies of the 30’ies. But having lived outside of Austria and having compared out way of looking at ourselves historically to the way other nations/peoples do for example regarding their colonial past, I think that we have indeed accomplished something in our way of coping with the past. But I also think that we also hold a special responsibility in this regard to take extra care so that this never happens again. I think this does not mean feeling guilty, but accepting responsibility. Never forget.❤️
Thanks for using the experience of Austria to throw light on the feelings of Germans on this subject.
I think our histories are not similar, but comparable. And it seems that after a phase of denial and a phase of guilt we are finally arriving in a more balanced place where we can accept that not all of our forefathers were victims, but not all of them were devils, either. The truth is somewhere in between those extremes, as always I suppose. And all this process makes it also hard to be proud like the Americans are- even though I consider myself a proud Austrian. But I think the NALF has described it very fittingly. I am proud of our music, our culture, our sweets, our skiing abilities, …. I am a proud Viennese. Perhaps similar to what Nick described as local pride. Happy thanksgiving to you, Jim by the way.. and to everyone!
The regional pride thing is spot on. Visiting Mainz all my life, I'd only see the German flag at civic/government buildings and souvenir shops, but the Mainz flag/crest is different. I see the red with spoked wheels pretty much everywhere. And people living there that are from another region of Germany will show their region's flag in some way as well. The regional identity is probably waning as more people move around the country and have family spread out more, but I know my grandfather had a very strong regional identity. He always had something to say about Germans from literally every other part of the country and seemed to know all of their stereotypes. But one year I did see a lot of national flags flying on lamp posts all over downtown. Just not of Germany. It was the US flag. A few days before the 4th of July.
well observed and summed up. thx! we are proud not to be proud. but some will say, they feel glad or blessed that they got the gift to grow up and live in such a nice and wealthy environment.
This video was so well put, good job! I'm proud of you! :)
I'm italian living in South of Germany. My german friends are all proud of to be german. But they don't need it to prove that.
I’m german and from my point of view, the 2006 world championship changed our attitude towards the flag. True, like you said, football tournaments are an exception. But even after the finals in 2006, I saw lots of flags all over the place and it kinda felt nice tbh.
2006 turned the flag towards a more positive view. But today it is also seen during ... ehm awkward ... protest, reversing the image from 2006.
The world cup happened as the first generation of unified Germans came off age. I think that's also a factor. Before the reunification the flag was more a symbol of seperation - and for older people, a defeated Germany.
@@Darilon12 indeed. A very good point. I'll keep that in mind.
@@EinChris75 those events often feature alternative flags. The modern flag is rejected by the more radical people there.
100% agree. It was a joyful time and made the flag „cool“ and - sorry, don’t know how to say it in English- unbeschwert. ❤🇩🇪
As a German I would say this sounds pretty accurate to me. It's also more likely for me to say I am glad, not proud, to be a German, but kinda feel proud of the city I grew up in and the things or people that came out of it. So I think your video sums it up pretty well for foreigners who wanna understand us.
Great video resolution btw. I rarely see any videos have it but I'm a bit fan of it.
The only thing I’ll say is, I personally really like the German flag itself haha. It has actually been around and used off and on for almost 200 years now, and I enjoy three-colored, horizontal flags and its very bold colors as well. It looks great.
and one of the few without blue and/or white.😉
@@winterschmied4583 genau, und abgesehen von dem Rot, ich meine, schwarz und gold? Jetzt komm schon, wer hätte gedacht? Aber es geht ja herrlich.
@@LiebeNachDland 🙈 als "Nichtfußballfan" muss ich zugeben, dass ich etwas gebraucht habe bis deine Antwort angekommen ist. Aber das ist schon richtig, auch in dieser Richtung dominieren rot, blau, weiß. Ich finde aber auch interessant, dass der FC Bayern blau und weiß im Landeswappen hat und dann noch rot dazu. Grün-Gelb wie bei den Packers oder Lila wie bei den Vikings wäre doch mal eine Ansage gewesen, oder?😂
Rot und schwarz ist halt immer geil und gold hat eben auch etwas. Auch wenn ich schon in einem anderen Kommentar erwähnt habe, dass mir rein optisch! die Flagge des Kaiserreichs besser gefällt. Es ist schlichtweg die beste Farbkombi. (Auch wenn mir bewusst ist, dass die böse Flagge die selbe Farbkombi hat;))
@@m.s.8927 stimmt. Die Fahne des Kaiserreichs war schön. Ich hätte auch nicht gesagt „200 Jahre“ sollten, sondern eher in etwa 170. Ich wollte auch nicht unbedingt sagen, dass ich überrascht bin, dass es so gut aussehen würde, sondern fragte mich einfach, wer diese schwarz-rot-goldene Kombination erfunden hat. Auch bei Mode geht natürlich Schwarz, Weiß und Rot immer.
I think it's indeed the historical scale of things. Regions are far more important here: not only culturally but also politically. People can be 'quite sure' about their region, but not so much about their country. As so much happened to it, which makes it 'a difficult companion'. Not only the big world wars, but also the west/east devide, which for many people still feels quite recent. Don't forget there were two national flags up till 1990.
spot on! greetings from the rhine valley!
I think this is your best video! Good job
I was born and raised in Germany. Am I proud to be German? Why should I? I am proud to be the son of my parents and the grandson of my grandparents. I am proud of my children and grandchildren. I like the life in Germany very much, I like the social system and the solidarity among each other. I like the focus on effectiveness, the directness and the freedoms we have. I like nature and living with it. Why should I hang up the flag? It's just a piece of cloth, it's the spirit and the history behind it that counts. How did Germany become the way it is today? Who were the actors and what did they achieve? What happened at the Hambach Festival, and why was it celebrated? What happened at the Paulskirche in Frankfurt? This is something that should be dealt with and not just a flag hung up.
We deal with it at school, but students are not very interested, even not in the "Oberstufe "
But I agree so far, why should I be proud to be German? Nothing done to it, my parents were responsible.
First Schleswig-Holstein, more Schleswig than Holstein, more Flensburg - Handewitt than THW Kiel.
Then North Rhine -Westfalia , where I grew up.
Then Germany, Denmark and France, where I feel to be at home, too.
Excellent analysis!
I’m a 42-yr old German from Cologne, who attended high school and an MBA program in the US.
I always found the pledge of allegiance creepy. I have often stated that I feel fortunate (but not proud) for being German. My patriotism is significantly more local than national.
You know more about us then we do! And i mean that
Its really cool to see a outside perspective that is so crazy accurate
Love your content 👍
Best video on the topic I have seen by anyone 🎉
I love my country.
I love the great strides we made.
I love how we manage to come together despite the volatility of our groups.
I love our passion, our love for sturdy bases, our unhindered understanding of each other.
I love our lands, the hauntingly beautiful landscapes, the marvellous architecture, the public transportation nets that span the countryside.
I love our cultures, from the fishermen and the Alte Land up north to the fishermen and Milchbauern down south(yes, there is a massive difference between the fishermen up north and down south).
I love the german knack for the sciences, the engineers, the musicians, poets and artists.
I love our Grundgesetz, and that our right to be human is guaranteed for eternity.
I love my country. I don't need tacky shows of pride to know that.
Yikes
@@Reichsritter What's yikes about that?
Word! I'm 100% with you, Landsmann. 👍
Wieso hast du dann die Schwuchtelflagge im Profil?
Very proud of you.
Great video and great topic.
For me, the pledge of allegiance is similar to the Catholic creed. (Don't get me wrong, I don't want to stop anyone from doing what they love to do). When I was young I went to church regularly (had to). As I got older I stopped just repeating the creed, I tried to understand the meaning. From that point on, I knew I couldn't endorse every word of it. In church no one forces me, so I stopped to pray every word. But if I'm not mistaken, refusing the pledge of allegiance in an US school could cause you problems. In my German thinking, this is more "compulsion" than "freedom".
Great analysis! Also, a lot of great posts in the comment section that make very valid points.
As you mentioned, local and regional identity is much stronger than the national one. You already pointed out that there is local and regional merch. People are used to the surroundings and the people they grew up in and with, and will form some bond with them. I.e., the feeling of identity has concrete meaning to it. The national identity feeling is more "formal" or "official", I think. What connects the German citizen from a random village with the German nation is the infrastructure, the language, the laws and the government, the Bundestagswahl. That there exists an Autobahn network, a Deutsche Bahn, that any university in Germany will accept your Abitur. That's why the German flag, at least to me, always feels "official". Even though you showed a counterexample, the flag is commonly flown in front of administrative or government buildings, at universities and schools. So for me, it's more akin to a feeling of respect to the nation unifying us, than of pride. You don't associate the flag with the people of Germany, but with the administration and its sphere of influence. That is, regarding the "normal" German flag context.
The soccer thing is an entirely different game; I think there it's actually pride, but not so much for the flag as for the team.
Would be interesting to know whether fellow Germans feel similarly; interestingly, this is not a topic that is much discussed by Germans :)
I wonder how the identity feeling towards the states is in the US. Do Americans feel a similar compassion to the flag of their state?
Spot on analysis 👌
As a German, i can copy that- "you hit the nail on the head" hahaha
DEUTSCHLAND MEIN HERZ IN FLAMMEN
Will dich lieben und verdammen.
WILL DICH LIEBEN UND VERDAMMEN...
DEUTSCHLAND, DEIN ATEM KALT
SO JUNG UND DOCH SO ALT.
@@lhuras. DEINE LIEBE IST FLUCH UND SEGEN
DEUTSCHLAND, DEINE LIEBE...
Never thought about it this way, but you're spot on.
What you're saying about "association" makes me think of the definition of "friends": In Switzerland (and I'm confident this applies to Germany just as well) a friend is a person who is there for us, no matter what. We probably grew up together or met a long time ago. Our parents know them. In the U.S. a friend can also be a work colleague, a neighbor, or an acquaintance. Muss "lesser standards".
I can totally relate to the statement "why should I be proud, I didn't contribute to the achievements." I enjoy the benefits though.
I am Paraguayan-German, born and raised in Germany. Even though I am proud of German achievements in the world and respect my Paraguayan ancestors and culture, I identify myself as a EU-citizen first and foremost.
There was a time in Germany when you would have something very similar to your daily pledge of allegiance in schools. Before 1989 in East German schools you would begin the day with a similar indoctrination ritual - with eerily similar choice of words in fact.
Other than that I think the phrase "glad not proud" sums it up perfectly. And looking at the world I'd say nothing good ever comes from blind adoration for any country or rather a concept of a country.
The similar choice of words wasn't an accident.
If I remember correctly the Nazis copied the pledge as well as the now famous salute from the US. Among a few other things.
@@merrydiscusser6793 I am not familiar with any "Nazy pledge" that is based of anyone's pledge of allegiance and the salute was taken from the Italians, where Fascism originated in the 1920s, who in turn based on their "glorious" Roman past - allegedly, at least. I wiki'ed it and you are probably talking about the Bellamy Salute which was similar but - apparently - different enough so that no one in the US minded having their children do it every day until December 1942.
Most importantly though is that I was not talking about the Nazi era to begin with. I was talking about East Germany and that pledge was nowhere near the word choice of the US one. The eeriness came from the same method of indoctrination for a completely opposed political ideology.
@@Llyd_ApDicta
Ah, I overlooked the 1989 and East Germany.
I honestly don't even remember where I got that info from, it was a few years ago. It was a list of things nazi-germany apperently copied from the US and the pledge and/or salute was on it.
Thanks for the clarification. :)
@@merrydiscusser6793 Interesting. Do you have any sources?
@@rosshart9514
Sorry, no. It was a long time ago, and my google-fu failed me.
Very good analysis, thank you. As a German, I also learned a lot 😊
Dude honestly...you nailed it again. Just starting watching your videos, but you are looking deep into people's minds here. I studied some kind of social science and I am talking and thinking alot about those things. I am far from an expert, but you are just putting my perception in words. One day, we'll have a beer together and dig deep in this shit. Cheers man!
I had to laugh about the last comment on our regional pride, because it is soo true. I live in Saarland, which is historically kind of a late comer to the Bundesrepublik and changed nationality between German and French several times (we even had our own football national team back in the 50's). So to us (especially the older part of our people), when we are traveling outside of our Bundesland, we 're still traveling to the "Reich". And basically, it doesn't matter if you're from Cologne, Munich or New York. if you're not from Saarland, you're a foreigner. TL:DR we are Saarlandians first, Germans second (or even third, depending on how europe-centric our view is).
Also funnily enough, I still find U.S. patriotism infecting (in a good way). I just don't like how it often gets abused by politicians to further their own egoistical goals . Which is why I am glad that we don't do this here in Germany that much.
Fair enough, considering saarland is the butt of the joke most of the time for us too :D
@@MusiXificati0n Well, we do our best to live up to the stereotypes :D
To me, there is another layer to this and that is the attitude of Germans towards the government and many Germans view the national flag more as a symbol of the government than of the people. Of course, this also involves a lot of the things you mentioned, be it WW2 or the history of the regions in Germany.
For example, if you have a neighbor who has a party and it's loud late into the night. You see it in plenty of movies and you see it in everyday life that people in America will call the cops, often without even going over to their neighbor first and talking to him. If you do that in Germany, you'd be criticized for it. Getting the government involved is a last resort. It's like snitching. It's dishonorable. Paying taxes to receive services is more like a business transaction; you pay something and get something in return. But that's for situations in which you can't do it yourself; not when it's more convenient to let somebody else do it. No matter whether the party was outlandishly loud and it was rude beyond measure, as soon as you call the cops before talking to your neighbor, everything pales in comparison to that very last action and all you'd hear people say is "Be it as it may, he should have talked to me himself first!" You might say that Americans - despite all the openly discussed anti-government sentiment - have a lot less hesitation to get the government involved whenever it's convenient.
And because of that attitude towards the government and because the national flag is the symbol of that government, Germans don't wave it or pledge allegiance to it. But during times like the World Cup, that perception changes because now it's also the symbol for the national team, so Germans are waving it to support the team.
what I would add about the part starting at around 5:50, about pride, is that there is a subtle, but important, distinction between "being proud *of germany*" vs "being proud *to be german*"
the former, I feel, matches your example about catching up with the old friend, whereas the latter, to me, at least, does imply something like "I have achieved something myself", which, as you said, is precisely what most of us want to avoid expressing
additionally, it's worth noting that there's always the inevitable element of "yeah, but it could be better", and since Germans tend to be *great* at complaining about comparatively tiny issues, that might further hinder the whole pride thing
for reference, I'm German and 19 years old now
I really love how you really dig into these cultural topics and try to put them in words.
I also thought about that topic a lot, here are my thoughts.
- I think the US as a truely immigrant country perceives „the nation“ as a unifying element under that everyone, no matter where they come from, can unite under. In North America (in contrast to Europe) there is no deep rooted history of national rivalries, aversions and wars, so there is no need to use the idea of a nation to exclude others or to differentiate yourself from others. Europe is the pole opposite: I would guess most of my forefathers (for roughly a thousand years, up to my grandad) have at some point of their life marched into another country to conquer that or defended against conquerer. And that is not just a German thing, but pretty much a shared European experience. So when the „idea of nations“ came along, it was first and foremost used to mark off yourself against others. This movement then lead to all the tragedies of the last century.
- A second point is, that in the day to day life in America your ethnicity plays no role when it comes to differentiate between Americans and non-Americans, because the US is not a country that is, or ever was primarily defined by ethnicity. So you often here people say things like: „I’m 25% English, 25% Swedish and 50% Italian.“ and although they say that they identify as 100% American. This is a sentence that you would never ever hear a European say, because your either from here or from there, but you can’t really be both. Because in Europe ethnicity plays a way bigger role.
- One thing that I keep reminding myself when it comes to topics like this one is, that although the dictionary says that two words have the same meaning, they can have two vastly different cultural meanings. „To be proud“ is one of those examples. Although there is a literal translation, „stolz“ has a vastly different cultural meaning. To be honest, I have barely heard someone in Germany say that they are proud of anyone or anything, if they are proud of something it’s almost always their own accomplishments. So the same questions in two different languages can have vastly different cultural meanings.
Hope that makes sense
Mate just a warning that you have to mark the paid sponsor as advertising or you can get a pretty big bill. Maybe you want to look into that and talk to other youtubers but as youre publishing in germany youre under german law and I dont want you to get into trouble. :)
nice video as always.
I'm an English teacher in Germany who was born in Germany but has lived in Canada and England. Currently, we're looking into globalism versus nationalism in the USA in comparison to Germany. You said many things I'd definitely agree on:Regional pride is much more prominent than national pride. Having to pledge allegiance to a flag every morning seems creepy for sure. And we're not proud of our country's progress/inventions/famous people because we had nothing to do with it. However, I have to add:If we did associate ourselves with it, we'd also have to associate ourselves with Nazi Germany.You can't just pick your cherries.If Americans looked at it the same way, they would personally identify with slavery, blocking the Civil rights movement and the trail of tears.
Yes that's such a great point! No cherry-picking from history sums it up perfectly.
Having to pledge alliance to a flag is sure creepy. The problem is you have no choice . Makes me think of my mother when she had to join the Hitler Youth organization BDM. They had to pledge to the flag and Hitler and sing nazi songs regularly .My mother hated Hitler and missed so many flag pledging events , claiming various illnesses and strong periods , that they threw her out of the BDM with a dishonorable discharge. That was a shame at that time for the whole family but really they were very happy about it.
And that ist why patriotism is bullshit in any country, because in the great perspective every state has their fare share of shit sticking to their foot sole. You can be proud of yourself, your friends or family but not a whole country.
Very good point!!!
@@brigittea5110 at that time that was shameful. in the retrospective this is something to be very proud of...very proud indeed. Your mum felt that this was not right and she didn´t want to be involved with it, a brave and bolt move, which also neede skill of reflection and awerenes! The same thing happened to my mum with the FDJ (Freie deutsche Jugend) the youth organization of the GDR-Regime...she got kicked out...and I´m rather happy, that she didn´t follow all the rules.
This is actually very accurate. Nicely done
I can relate to this very much. My personal definition of "patriotism" is something along the lines of wanting to see the place you're from succeed because you're grateful for being at home there. It doesn't really involve flying a flag or singing my anthem (although that in and of itself isn't wrong) but rather working towards something even better than what you've already come to love.
Now, regarding regional pride, that's an entirely different beast. I'm from Franconia which technically is a part of Bavaria but really we're a bit different in ways that probably seem subtle to any outsider but they do matter because I'm proud of being Franconian and nobody can stop me from singing the Franconian anthem whenever I'm hiking or talking about how this is the most beutiful place on the planet.
You got a real deep understanding of pride, and the little more thoughtful Germans. If you overdo with pride, it can become meaningless, or even arrogant. Cause it includes the position "I'm better than you". A Marathon winner has the right to do so. It's an achievement. But even him, please not every 5 Minutes. (Nice episode in "The big bang theory", with Wolowitz permanently pronouncing he is an astronaut. Pride breaking reaction: It shows every idiot can go to space).
Wolowitz did graduate from MIT though. Not exactly your average idiot...
Jep, that's it.
Saying "I am proud of Germany or beeing a german" makes me instantaneously uncomfortable. Because my Head starts immediatly: "What are you proud of? Broken School systems with ruined schoolbuildings? Public Healthcare without nurses because we spit all the disrespect we had on them when it comes to proper payment? Blocking the supply chain law to obfuscate slavery and Childlabor, blocking every rule that would aggravate corruption and moneylaundring? Never make big steps against right wing nationalism? Beeing in the greatest Climatic calamity since the dinosaurs extinction, but can't decide something simple as a Speedlimit on the Autobahn to save a few years for next generation of humanity? .. there is not much left to be proud of. It's almost a shame to be german. And with saying "I am proud of it", I make myself a fool. Gemany as SO MUCH Problems under the surface that no USA->Bavaria-tuber could ever discover. Being proud for that would render me as an idiot.
Because I would be proud of my country.. without a single reason to be so. Just for the sake of being proud on something.
And ofc its the same with the USA. If they would be more honest with their citizens and wouldnt try to hide their crimes, they would not be as patriotic as they are right now.
@@SFoX-On-Air excellent comment!
@@SFoX-On-Air You listed only negative apsects. You are the other side of the coin which isn't good either.
@@PeterPan-fb2ys The negative side of the coin is way more negative than sFoX said. The BND (German secret service) and the CIA made up the lie, that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass distruction. For that, the BND should had been destroyed, the former German chancelor Schröder stand trial. And if the US-Americans dont do the same for George Bush jr. and all his (CIA) involded helpers, they are as scum as us Germans or as ISIS or as Nazis or as Communists. About 500.000 people were murdered in that war, about 400.000 civilians. Oh, and Netanjahu framed Hussein as well, so he shall stand trial as well. As long those criminals arent judged, their countrys are evil and not better than the Third Reich. I feel disgust for my German people, because they still elected people, who had their hands into war crimes as well (e.g.Steinmeier, Merkel, Scholz).
This is out of one of Volker Pispers stand-ups
"I am so occupied being human i rarely come around being german"
As a bavarian I gotta say, you've summed all that up really really well. 👍🍻
Well summarized and astutely observed.
i,am a proud German like you said !
I,Am a Prouder Swabian !!
but the Proudest i,am to my hometown
you are 100 % Correct !!!
keep up the good work i,am proud of you 👊
When asked if I'm feeling proud being German, I answer "No, I'm feeling happy to be a German"
semantics
@@Siegbert85 Side fact, I wrote that comment right at the beginning of the video, long before Nalf quoted the "glad to be German".
@@haukesattler446 in any case... I feel it's a cop out statement pretty much meaning the same thing. People who say they're proud of being of a certain nationality are well aware that it's no achievement of their own. It's just a way of expressing one's feeling of being connected.
Most countries don't do the flag thing so the real question is why do people in the US overdo it so much.
their pride devolves into patriotism and is defended by force of arms. I'm scared and worried about what's going to happen after the January 6 run on the Capitol. You can't be proud of that and the flag
Marketing?
Most countries don't do it quite like the US, but definitely more than Germany.
Very good explanation