Just to add, no, you won't bend your op rod shooting commercial ammo. The rifle wasn't even designed for the 150gr. M2 ball, but for the 173gr. M1 ball. Also, grease is the REQUIRED lubricant for the M1 rifle.
We used to almost never lubricate match grade rifles just a nice clean to get all residue off and a little bit of oil on the action and that’s it. We also never took the barrel off or even the stock because the match grade 1939 national match rifles were machined for accuracy.
We went from m1 to m2 ball because the m1 ball exceeded the safe overshoot distance of national guard rifle ranges. When the military standardized on m1 ball, they needed to extend the area past the range to another several miles, and the national guard didnt have the funds to buy the land and extend the range. So they request a round for training purposes on the already set up range saftey guidelines. Even John Garand said that m2 ball should not be the main service cartridge, but we did it anyways until we replaced m2 ball with m2 ap as the standard cartridge
You may not bend it the first time or second time, but commercial 30-06 loaded to pressures higher than m2 will create increased op rod velocities which will increase wear and tear and reduce the life of the rifle in general. Sufficiently high op rod velocities will even create an unsafe condition of doubling. If you want to shoot higher pressure commercial ammo you can easily modify the m1 to do so with a gas plug. This isnt just gun forum bullshit, increased op rod velocity and doubling malfunction has been tested and recorded here -> ua-cam.com/video/ZQ_F1riBth8/v-deo.html Also, whether or not the garand was initially designed for M1 ball is irrelevant to comparisons to modern ammunition, the biggest difference is in the type of powder when it comes to pressures in the gas cylinder and op rod velocity rather than the bullet weight. It would also be naive to think that Springfield wouldnt have changed the gas port size when the m1 ammunition was abandoned in favor of the m2.
Well DONE! I'm not a gun nut, just like them. When I was 6 yesterday old (1953) my pop and I went to a gun range and there was a guy there with an M 1. Pop and I spent our whole visit watching and talking to him about the rifle he had used in W W II. Still a great memory.
I'd love to own a Garand. In these days of plastic everything, they are a joy to behold. My father told me they sat up at night in Korea scoring 30-06 ball ammo to create frag rounds for hunting snipers around their base. I may get a block of gel and try that someday.
@@MisoBoredProductions Yes he did. War is hell, and when your life is on the line, any means necessary to kill them first is the mindset that keeps you alive.
Obviously this guy has no clue about the thing concerning factory ammo and the Garand. The issue with ammo not specifically loaded with Garands in mind is excessive pressure bending the operation rod and excessive bolt speed causing failures. The gun was designed for the ball ammo in use by the military. It was not designed for different ammo, heavy bullet weights, and current modern smokeless powders. The operation rod is very long and is easily bent or broken with excessive pressure trying to cycle the bolt faster than the op-rod strength is capable of handling. That is why there are different gas plugs in order reduce the pressure exerted on the op-rod by ammo that is outside of the rifles design limits. Can't say much about the gentleman's other Garand myths, because I agree with of it.
John Garand when ordered to convert the M1 to the 30/06 designed it for the M1 Ball Ammo. That's .30M1, with a 174.5 gr bullet traveling at 2647 fps. (58,740 psi) With 150's there isn't much commercial ammo that the Garand can't safely handle, 168's to. I have 4 - M1's and all are equipped with a non adjustable gas plug supplied by Garand Gear just to be safe. Instead of a flat face it is hollowed out like the one used on a M14. This eliminates the pressure spike during ignition and saves your op rod which is the part that will take the beating with ammo loaded out of spec, it also cushions the action and smooths overall operation. When I find commercial ammo or mil surp at cheap prices I grab it up, I bought thousands of rounds of hot, Greek HXP M2 out of the early 70's and ran it thru 1 of my Garands without a problem. Sure, I agree and don't feel the need to run 3,000 fps '06 ammo thru my rifles but the standard M2 Ball is rated at 2806 fps at the muzzle and many 150gr commercial loads fall into that range. The best advice is given by the CMP. "The CMP advises to not use .30/06 ammunition in M1 Garands, 1903s, and 1903A3s that is loaded beyond 50,000 CUP and has a bullet weight more than 172-174gr. These rifles are at least 70 years old and were not designed for max loads and super heavy bullets."
My SA M1 Garand is from December 1941. I like to think it was on the production line on 7 December 1941. I have been hand loading for decades. I started by hand loading my 03-A3 from 1943 and believe guidance from the CMP is sound advice. I recently received that first M1 from the CMP in what they call an “Expert” level rifle. It came with a new .30-06 barrel, and a new walnut stock. I loaded about 100 rounds of Spitzer 150 grain bullets and used my old .30-06 fallback powder, IMR 4064. Per the guidebook, I used 50 grains of 4064. I performed a function check at my range with two clips to make sure that it cycled properly. The 50 grains of 4064 powder performed very well, not too powerful, nor too weak. Clearly, when using a gas operated rifle, you must have sufficient power to cycle the bolt. I also annealed the necks on the cartridges. The next time I had an opportunity to go to the range I chose to do some sighting in, at 100 yards. I had the range to many self that day and used my LabRadar to get a feel for muzzle velocities as well. With hardly any wind, 75°F temperature at my range elevation of 3,000,’ my shots all fell within the circle. The sights were cranked down to the closest position with zero windage. Muzzle velocities were from 1926 to 2028 fps. Velocities held well out to the 100 yard mark. I use two lubricants for my M1. On the finer areas I used the classic LSA from the Vietnam days. Light Semi-Automatic oil/semifluid . I supplement it liberally near the spring and the bolt guides with the age old RIG grease. Rust Inhibiting Grease. Because of its age, I go a little heavier on the RIG to protect the action. Frankly, I have no idea why I never bought an M1 before now. I have long appreciated the .30-06 cartridge. Because a previous armorer chose to engrave a serial number on the bolt (and differed from the receiver) I polished up that bolt and in turn, jeweled it. I greatly appreciate the milder recoil compared to my sporterized Remington 03-A3 from 1943.
I bought mine in 1981 from an NRA shoot. Price total $123. I completed all the paperwork at the time including an FBI fingerprint card I sent to Washington, D.C. My M1 is serial dated in 1945 and is in excellent condition.
I think saying that one can safely shoot virtually any commercial ammo is not the best advice. These rifles are 80 years old. There is no need for over stressing the rifle when there are plenty of options that would help these rifles continue to operate for many more years. The CMP recommendations for ammo make sense.
as i understand it is more about the powder used than the bullet weight. the slower burning non-ball powder burns at a slower rate and can cause more wear on the rifle.
Thanks for you videos on the M1, where do you shop for bulk ammo? I have found a couple of sites but most are still running around $1.00 / round, especially right now and if they have it. Have you tried the name brands of 30 06 at the 150 grain, if so any problems with them? Just purchased my first Garand a couple of months ago from the CMP and want to start shooting it!!
That was absolutely one of the best videos I've seen in a long time! I've owned 3 M1's and never had a problem. Also that reference you made to the .45 vs. The .38 was awesome! I'm 56 years old and have heard these stories my whole life. You were spot on with this video! I'm subscribing to your channel right now. Accurate and true info! Thank you sir!
Yes you can damage your M1 while using ammo that is safe in bolt action rifles. The issues is the gas port pressure in the closed gas system. The M2 ball ammo used a relatively quick powder by modern standards. Heavier bullets of slower powders will still have more pressure when the bullet passes the gas port, and can have enough to damage the operating rod, which can get expensive quickly. In addition to the ammo you showed, Hornady also make some ammo compatible with the M1 gas system.
I’ve seen so much evidence to the contrary including my own. I will agree that super hot loads are not the best idea for the system. I guess the bigger question is, with the exception of zeroing and taking one or two shots, why would anybody want to spend twice as much to practice with hunting ammo anyway?
@@drdrake63 : It's not a question of the loads being "hot". It is the gas pressure at the gas port way out there on the end of the barrel. Slower powders and heavier bullets will create that pressure.
@@falconmoose5435 so could you tell the difference when you changed the gas plug with the Garand gear gas plug. I've been watching all kinds of videos about this. Most people say you need to change the old gas plug with a new Schuster adjustable gas plug🤔 thanks for any help 👍
As for lubrication the M1 Garand came with a buttstock kit which consisted a cleaning kit and along with that cleaning kit with a little pouch of brown Grease which was designed for the bolt slide and the operating Rod slide
Hate to tell you, but your wrong. I got an email from the CMP stating not to shoot bullets greater than 173 grs as these are old rifles. Also, the Garand Collectors Association warned about shooting any 30/06 commercial ammo that have higher pressures than the rifle was designed for. Spec is 50,000 psi. Typical factory ammo is 60,000 psi. High psi ammo has been known to bend op rods. FYI.
50,000 CUP is slightly over 60,000 psi. That's where the confusion comes from. The original 30/06 that the M1 was designed for, the .30M1 load (58,740 psi) used a 174.5 gr bullet traveling at 2640 fps. Pretty stout and easily in excess of many commercial 150 gr loads available today. NATO M2 150gr ball is rated at 2806 fps and is a good guide to avoid bending your op rod. From the CMP - "The CMP advises to not use .30/06 ammunition in M1 Garands, 1903s, and 1903A3s that is loaded beyond 50,000 CUP and has a bullet weight more than 172-174gr." Copper Units Pressure.
Believe it or not, the "felt recoil" on an M1 Garand firing a .30-06 is actually less than that of an M14 firing a 7.62x51 (.308). I have both and my shoulder definitely gets sorer with the M14 than it does with the M1. The length of piston and operating rods is different in both rifles, however. The point you are missing about the ammunition is that modern cartridges have higher, sometimes much higher CUP's. Also keep in mind that that even a late (end of manufacture 1957) model M1 is 65+ years old and you have _no idea whatsoever_ how many rounds have been put through it. It could be 1,000 or 25,000. Was it a combat rifle or an armory queen? Metal fatigue in the chamber and barrel is real. When I reload my M1.30-06 I use Hodgdon H4895 and back off the charge 20% from the maximum. With 150gr FMJ boattail rounds I routinely clock between 2600 and 2650 fps. COL should be 3.25". This is what Hornady recommends for the Garand and it is well within the safe range. You have had your Garand for 1 year, I have had mine for over 30 years with no FTF or function issues. Same operating rod and recoil spring. The one part in the Garand that will most likely fail is the operating rod. One year may not be long enough to see problems occur. The best lubricant I have found is actually something made for semi-auto pistols called "Slide Glide". It is a superior lubricant over a wide operating range and it does not "gum up" over time with powder residue.
Just purchased my first. This is a great video. Glad to hear someone calling out the nonsense lol. I will check out your other videos for maintenance tips.
I find reloading an answer to most problems. I recently acquired a CMP "expert grade" M1 Garand with a brand-new match barrel. I can hunt with this rifle using 30.06 service reloading data and loading just 5 rounds with an N-block in place, into the rifle. Anyone who can follow simple instruction, can reload.
I agree facts are king, however I do like to hear stories as well. The wealth of the stories says alot about what the stories are about. Pure love for the M1...
Depending which bayonet you get yes, the korean era bayonets probably won't as they secure into the gas plug itself, the ww2 era ones will probably be fine
Hello to the States, I really like your content. Especially on the M1 Garand. I got a Winchester M1 Garand from 1943 and got it refurbished (Glas bedded stock)for competition shooting. What a wonderful weapon and sure fun to shoot. Loving it! I am also using the PPU 30-06 M1 Garand ammo and I'm happy with the results. I am sure you could also use the regular 30-06 PPU ammo since this is only 5% hotter in average than the 'M1 spec ammo'. Doesn't create a hughe price difference though. Cheers and great video! GS83
I never heard of the "do not grease a garand" myth. Not really possible to get bulk for 50 cents per round anymore unless maybe at a garage sale. I just paid 68 cents per round for 500 rounds of PPU 150gr online and that included a 4 cent per round sales tax.
I grease my m1 but I did read once the garand was designed to fire without grease because of snowy conditions in Korea and other places would cause jamming due to the grease freezing but after it was broken in properly it requires generous greasing.
I recently bought an M1 Garand. It is a great rifle and I cannot stop myself from learning more and more about this great rifle. I fully agree with him IF younget the chance to get one do it.
12me91 kinda? It’s a decent rifle but today’s fire and maneuver warfare does not lend itself well to an 8 round rifle. I personally prefer an M1 over an AR, but I’m more concerned about wolves and bears than terrorists You could use it well for a more mobile anti material rifle. Still portable compared to gigantic rifles and 30-06 AP or API would ruin anyone’s day
For all who are worried they bend their oprod. 1. It is already bend. By default. By the factory. 2. Buy an adjustable gas plug. You can set it so even the most powerful load will work just fine The system of the M1 is incredibly strong. With the right pressure on the gas system you can not damage it with any factory load
The ammo issue has to do with the burn rate of the powder. Heavier bullet ammo generally uses a slower powder which is where the problem lies. Also, the ammo should be no higher than 50000 psi. Proper handloads will outshoot any factory stuff.
M2 Ball ammo is preferred.. You can also get an adjustable gas plug and shot W/E you want through it.. I don't hunt with mine because of the terrible low light visibility through the M1 optics..😢😮 I live in Michigan were we can only have 5 loads in a hunting rifle.
Great rifle. Is yours a CMP ? Looks very nice what grade is it? How well does the eldx 178 group? Have you tried any nosler partition how did group? I'm planning on getting a CMP special grade or service grade haven't decided. As far as the General Patton statement I think he was right for the time period and I feel it's even a relevant battle rifle today. I actually like the emblock clip easy to store and trouble free. Think about how many modern firearms have magazine feeding issues and and how many people fumble removing mags. The emblock clip doesn't have to be removed just stuff another in and go. 😁 Thanks for sharing good info 👍 Probably not the best but still relevant especially when you consider fire power. As far as carrying ammo you don't have bulky magazines to carry or hanging down in the way. Thanks again
Mr. Garand designed his rifle and its ammo. For those that want to shoot any and all ammo found on the market today, just go ahead, do your thing. Repeated shooting WILL weaken the op rod and it will break. Ask the CMP, they know what they are talking about. Why would you want to risk damaging a beautiful piece of history. Hunting loads will shoot and function but it does damage in the long run. 50,000 CUP is the max.
Use lubraplate for the grease. I use it on my m1 grand m1a and carbine . Now as to the commercial ammo use the reason why you should stick with 150gr is because of over pressure now you can get a adjustable gas plug I recommend it about my self I've been a reenactor / living history since 02 I have as much time behind a m1grand as a solider during WW2 . I'm no expert by no means
@@George-tz1cv only problem is the red grease the little pots are getting tough to find at least for me . That's why I went with the lubraplate . Now I use it on my m1 Grand and carbine and my m1a
I used a m 1 and also m 1 carbine and a m 14 in Nam so I know a lot about the m 1, the m 1 carbine and m 14 they are very weapons I also used a Colt ACP 45 as my side arm. My main weapon was a 106 recoiless rifle
Just won one in a gun raffle. Spent $20 its a CMP rifle raffled by the local marine Corp league. My father was a WWII & KOREA vet. Wishing he was still around to share in the good fortune. Taking as much in about it as possible. I was an M16/M4 warrior. So, needless to say, I dont know Jack about them. I do remember my dad describing wounds it created .. Looking forward to going full send at the range on my new to me M1. Thanks for the info.
In the summer days my Garand runs hot and grease is my best friend before buying a m-1 Garand talk to someone who has one. You will want one my m-1 is a 43 from the Philippines war she runs fine
Firing a heavier grain bullet in a semi auto rifle can put excessive wear on the action. That’s why they make adjustable gas systems to compensate for heavier grain bullet.
What about the one when what you said about the -in and the Germans knew the gun was empty so American soldiers would take an empty en bloc and bounce it off their helmet to make the ping?
There have been incidences of bend op rods and rifles firing out of battery with out of spec receivers. Hornady loading manual has a section for the M1 rifle which does limit port pressure by the use of medium burn rate powders. There are also adjustable gas plugs that will allow for use of modern ammo. Also it’s a good practice to check all resized cases with a case gauge. Thank you for your presentation, but bend op rods and rifles firing out of battery have occurred in the M1.
I think if someone gives an M1 a steady diet of Modern hunting ammo then yes you could see this. As far as zeroing out the range and taking one or two shots on a hunting trip? I don’t believe this would happen. I have done exactly that and not encountered any issues whatsoever and believe me I inspect my equipment regularly
The best gas plug that allows for the use of modern ammo is the gas plug that came from the factory when the rifle was manufactured. This video was about all the myths and rumors about the M1, and here you are perpetrating another one. The M1 was designed to shoot the military's stockpile of billions of rounds of 30-06 and M1 Ball ammo. The M2 "Garand Ammo" didn't come out until later when National Guard units requested a special run of it for their shorter rifle ranges, as they could overshoot the safety zone. It wasn't until later that regular troops requested the lighter recoiling M2 ammo that M2 eventually became standard. You will NOT bend an op rod shooting regular 30-06 ammo in an M1 Garand. Any instances of bent op rods, blown-up rifles, malfunctions, etc., come from out-of-spec or damaged rifles. Given the millions and millions of M1 Garand rifles that have been manufactured, any failures of the platform account for less and a fraction of 1% of them. A much better failure rate than even modern firearms. People, get a grip, please.
That thing is a bunch of bull you got 500,000 men shooting rifles at each other artillery up to 255 mm going off Morters machine guns I doubt anything going to allow you to hear that ping
And all other countries at that time outside the British 303 that held 10 rounds in a magazine all the other bolt action rifles we're fed With a five-round Stripper clip for the 8 Round n block clip the M1 grand used and it was also faster to reload you had more Firepower at your disposal why do you think we won World War II
You are correct. There's a variety of ammo that works in the M1. The M1 was NOT designed to shoot M2 Ball. M2 Ball came out AFTER the M1 was designed and already in production. So much bogus info about the M1. All lies from keyboard warriors.
i completely disagree with you. The M1 Garand specifications was designed for the pressures of the 150 grain cartridge. Anything above the recommend grains of 150 can cause catastrophic failure in the receiver chamber area of the M1 Garand. I invite you to refer yourself to John Garand's note on this subject. I do agree with you in regards to PPU's ammunition's of 150 grains that they produce for the M1 Garand. They do this because many Europeans in fact own M1 Garands. This is something many American's fail to recognize or acknowledge. I know many people buy that adjustable gas plugs which I do not and will not ever agree with that implementation. It is best to truly understand and appreciate the M1 Garand, its best to stay with 150 grains and shoot like our fathers and grandfathers shot during world war 2, Korea, and Vietnam. Only then you will be able to understand the M1 Garand. I did give you a thumb's up for your video.
Just to add, no, you won't bend your op rod shooting commercial ammo. The rifle wasn't even designed for the 150gr. M2 ball, but for the 173gr. M1 ball. Also, grease is the REQUIRED lubricant for the M1 rifle.
Rob Yokom why did they switch from M1 to M2?
I thought the op rod problems were coming from the rifle grenades
We used to almost never lubricate match grade rifles just a nice clean to get all residue off and a little bit of oil on the action and that’s it. We also never took the barrel off or even the stock because the match grade 1939 national match rifles were machined for accuracy.
We went from m1 to m2 ball because the m1 ball exceeded the safe overshoot distance of national guard rifle ranges. When the military standardized on m1 ball, they needed to extend the area past the range to another several miles, and the national guard didnt have the funds to buy the land and extend the range. So they request a round for training purposes on the already set up range saftey guidelines. Even John Garand said that m2 ball should not be the main service cartridge, but we did it anyways until we replaced m2 ball with m2 ap as the standard cartridge
You may not bend it the first time or second time, but commercial 30-06 loaded to pressures higher than m2 will create increased op rod velocities which will increase wear and tear and reduce the life of the rifle in general.
Sufficiently high op rod velocities will even create an unsafe condition of doubling.
If you want to shoot higher pressure commercial ammo you can easily modify the m1 to do so with a gas plug. This isnt just gun forum bullshit, increased op rod velocity and doubling malfunction has been tested and recorded here -> ua-cam.com/video/ZQ_F1riBth8/v-deo.html
Also, whether or not the garand was initially designed for M1 ball is irrelevant to comparisons to modern ammunition, the biggest difference is in the type of powder when it comes to pressures in the gas cylinder and op rod velocity rather than the bullet weight. It would also be naive to think that Springfield wouldnt have changed the gas port size when the m1 ammunition was abandoned in favor of the m2.
@@Full_Otto_Bismarck bullshit. Both that video and everything you said. Come back when you know what you're talking about.
I just recently purchased a 1944 M1 Garand. Once I got used to it, all my other rifles feel like squirt guns. This is by far my favorite rifle.
Well DONE! I'm not a gun nut, just like them. When I was 6 yesterday old (1953) my pop and I went to a gun range and there was a guy there with an M 1. Pop and I spent our whole visit watching and talking to him about the rifle he had used in W W II. Still a great memory.
I'd love to own a Garand. In these days of plastic everything, they are a joy to behold. My father told me they sat up at night in Korea scoring 30-06 ball ammo to create frag rounds for hunting snipers around their base. I may get a block of gel and try that someday.
So he admitted to committing warcrimes? lol
@@MisoBoredProductions Yes he did. War is hell, and when your life is on the line, any means necessary to kill them first is the mindset that keeps you alive.
I don't blame him at all. Those rules only apply when both sides honor them. Otherwise, too bad.
@@Robnord1”scoring ball rounds wouldn’t create frag rounds, that isnt how that works
Obviously this guy has no clue about the thing concerning factory ammo and the Garand. The issue with ammo not specifically loaded with Garands in mind is excessive pressure bending the operation rod and excessive bolt speed causing failures. The gun was designed for the ball ammo in use by the military. It was not designed for different ammo, heavy bullet weights, and current modern smokeless powders. The operation rod is very long and is easily bent or broken with excessive pressure trying to cycle the bolt faster than the op-rod strength is capable of handling. That is why there are different gas plugs in order reduce the pressure exerted on the op-rod by ammo that is outside of the rifles design limits. Can't say much about the gentleman's other Garand myths, because I agree with of it.
Replacement op rods go for about $90-150 (or more). Re-load and shoot accordingly.
John Garand when ordered to convert the M1 to the 30/06 designed it for the M1 Ball Ammo. That's .30M1, with a 174.5 gr bullet traveling at 2647 fps. (58,740 psi) With 150's there isn't much commercial ammo that the Garand can't safely handle, 168's to. I have 4 - M1's and all are equipped with a non adjustable gas plug supplied by Garand Gear just to be safe. Instead of a flat face it is hollowed out like the one used on a M14. This eliminates the pressure spike during ignition and saves your op rod which is the part that will take the beating with ammo loaded out of spec, it also cushions the action and smooths overall operation. When I find commercial ammo or mil surp at cheap prices I grab it up, I bought thousands of rounds of hot, Greek HXP M2 out of the early 70's and ran it thru 1 of my Garands without a problem. Sure, I agree and don't feel the need to run 3,000 fps '06 ammo thru my rifles but the standard M2 Ball is rated at 2806 fps at the muzzle and many 150gr commercial loads fall into that range. The best advice is given by the CMP. "The CMP advises to not use .30/06 ammunition in M1 Garands, 1903s, and 1903A3s that is loaded beyond 50,000 CUP and has a bullet weight more than 172-174gr. These rifles are at least 70 years old and were not designed for max loads and super heavy bullets."
My SA M1 Garand is from December 1941. I like to think it was on the production line on 7 December 1941. I have been hand loading for decades. I started by hand loading my 03-A3 from 1943 and believe guidance from the CMP is sound advice. I recently received that first M1 from the CMP in what they call an “Expert” level rifle. It came with a new .30-06 barrel, and a new walnut stock. I loaded about 100 rounds of Spitzer 150 grain bullets and used my old .30-06 fallback powder, IMR 4064. Per the guidebook, I used 50 grains of 4064. I performed a function check at my range with two clips to make sure that it cycled properly. The 50 grains of 4064 powder performed very well, not too powerful, nor too weak. Clearly, when using a gas operated rifle, you must have sufficient power to cycle the bolt. I also annealed the necks on the cartridges. The next time I had an opportunity to go to the range I chose to do some sighting in, at 100 yards. I had the range to many self that day and used my LabRadar to get a feel for muzzle velocities as well. With hardly any wind, 75°F temperature at my range elevation of 3,000,’ my shots all fell within the circle. The sights were cranked down to the closest position with zero windage. Muzzle velocities were from 1926 to 2028 fps. Velocities held well out to the 100 yard mark. I use two lubricants for my M1. On the finer areas I used the classic LSA from the Vietnam days. Light Semi-Automatic oil/semifluid . I supplement it liberally near the spring and the bolt guides with the age old RIG grease. Rust Inhibiting Grease. Because of its age, I go a little heavier on the RIG to protect the action. Frankly, I have no idea why I never bought an M1 before now. I have long appreciated the .30-06 cartridge. Because a previous armorer chose to engrave a serial number on the bolt (and differed from the receiver) I polished up that bolt and in turn, jeweled it. I greatly appreciate the milder recoil compared to my sporterized Remington 03-A3 from 1943.
I bought mine in 1981 from an NRA shoot. Price total $123. I completed all the paperwork at the time including an FBI fingerprint card I sent to Washington, D.C. My M1 is serial dated in 1945 and is in excellent condition.
I think saying that one can safely shoot virtually any commercial ammo is not the best advice. These rifles are 80 years old. There is no need for over stressing the rifle when there are plenty of options that would help these rifles continue to operate for many more years. The CMP recommendations for ammo make sense.
Another myth. The m16 was designed to only wound the enemy etc.
Eddy Nestle That is 100% false.
@@drdrake63 i know. That's why I suggested you do a myth buster on.it
Not a fan of ball powder. For the M1, I stick with IMR 4895 or IMR 4064. Gas port pressure is the culprit in damaging operating rods.
as i understand it is more about the powder used than the bullet weight. the slower burning non-ball powder burns at a slower rate and can cause more wear on the rifle.
Thanks for you videos on the M1, where do you shop for bulk ammo? I have found a couple of sites but most are still running around $1.00 / round, especially right now and if they have it. Have you tried the name brands of 30 06 at the 150 grain, if so any problems with them? Just purchased my first Garand a couple of months ago from the CMP and want to start shooting it!!
Floridian target sports for PPU ammo maybe? Prices for all ammo is high right now but I like PPU and it’s pretty cheap
@@The_SmorgMan Thanks for info, price is good but out of stock of course like pretty much everyone else right now.
SGAMMO I was buying pre covid for 60 cents a round but I noticed after covid invaded I seen the same ammo is now 70 cents a round.
my grandpa used an m1 in the army in the korea era, he showed me how to grease and oil it. since he used both back then.
David Drake Channel........a welcome relief from the current Chaos!
Thank you Stan, I appreciate the kind words and also appreciate you watching
That was absolutely one of the best videos I've seen in a long time! I've owned 3 M1's and never had a problem. Also that reference you made to the .45 vs. The .38 was awesome! I'm 56 years old and have heard these stories my whole life. You were spot on with this video! I'm subscribing to your channel right now. Accurate and true info! Thank you sir!
Yes you can damage your M1 while using ammo that is safe in bolt action rifles. The issues is the gas port pressure in the closed gas system. The M2 ball ammo used a relatively quick powder by modern standards. Heavier bullets of slower powders will still have more pressure when the bullet passes the gas port, and can have enough to damage the operating rod, which can get expensive quickly.
In addition to the ammo you showed, Hornady also make some ammo compatible with the M1 gas system.
I’ve seen so much evidence to the contrary including my own. I will agree that super hot loads are not the best idea for the system. I guess the bigger question is, with the exception of zeroing and taking one or two shots, why would anybody want to spend twice as much to practice with hunting ammo anyway?
@@drdrake63 : It's not a question of the loads being "hot". It is the gas pressure at the gas port way out there on the end of the barrel. Slower powders and heavier bullets will create that pressure.
I bent my op-rod using Remington Core-lokt. Installed a Garandgear expanded gas plug.
@@falconmoose5435 so could you tell the difference when you changed the gas plug with the Garand gear gas plug. I've been watching all kinds of videos about this. Most people say you need to change the old gas plug with a new Schuster adjustable gas plug🤔 thanks for any help 👍
@@JamesWhite-tg4kw Garandgear plug works!
As for lubrication the M1 Garand came with a buttstock kit which consisted a cleaning kit and along with that cleaning kit with a little pouch of brown Grease which was designed for the bolt slide and the operating Rod slide
Hate to tell you, but your wrong. I got an email from the CMP stating not to shoot bullets greater than 173 grs as these are old rifles. Also, the Garand Collectors Association warned about shooting any 30/06 commercial ammo that have higher pressures than the rifle was designed for. Spec is 50,000 psi. Typical factory ammo is 60,000 psi. High psi ammo has been known to bend op rods. FYI.
50,000 CUP is the standard pressure for 30-06. Always has been.. Which equates to 60,000 PSI
50,000 CUP is slightly over 60,000 psi. That's where the confusion comes from. The original 30/06 that the M1 was designed for, the .30M1 load (58,740 psi) used a 174.5 gr bullet traveling at 2640 fps. Pretty stout and easily in excess of many commercial 150 gr loads available today. NATO M2 150gr ball is rated at 2806 fps and is a good guide to avoid bending your op rod. From the CMP - "The CMP advises to not use .30/06 ammunition in M1 Garands, 1903s, and 1903A3s that is loaded beyond 50,000 CUP and has a bullet weight more than 172-174gr." Copper Units Pressure.
@@hardball107 exactly!
Believe it or not, the "felt recoil" on an M1 Garand firing a .30-06 is actually less than that of an M14 firing a 7.62x51 (.308). I have both and my shoulder definitely gets sorer with the M14 than it does with the M1. The length of piston and operating rods is different in both rifles, however.
The point you are missing about the ammunition is that modern cartridges have higher, sometimes much higher CUP's. Also keep in mind that that even a late (end of manufacture 1957) model M1 is 65+ years old and you have _no idea whatsoever_ how many rounds have been put through it. It could be 1,000 or 25,000. Was it a combat rifle or an armory queen? Metal fatigue in the chamber and barrel is real. When I reload my M1.30-06 I use Hodgdon H4895 and back off the charge 20% from the maximum. With 150gr FMJ boattail rounds I routinely clock between 2600 and 2650 fps. COL should be 3.25". This is what Hornady recommends for the Garand and it is well within the safe range. You have had your Garand for 1 year, I have had mine for over 30 years with no FTF or function issues. Same operating rod and recoil spring. The one part in the Garand that will most likely fail is the operating rod. One year may not be long enough to see problems occur.
The best lubricant I have found is actually something made for semi-auto pistols called "Slide Glide". It is a superior lubricant over a wide operating range and it does not "gum up" over time with powder residue.
Just purchased my first. This is a great video. Glad to hear someone calling out the nonsense lol. I will check out your other videos for maintenance tips.
I find reloading an answer to most problems. I recently acquired a CMP "expert grade" M1 Garand with a brand-new match barrel. I can hunt with this rifle using 30.06 service reloading data and loading just 5 rounds with an N-block in place, into the rifle. Anyone who can follow simple instruction, can reload.
The guy who made up the clip ping myth was probably the same guy who said the 45ACP was a monster to shoot and started 'Kilroy was here'.
wow 60 cents a round. those are some old prices.
I agree facts are king, however I do like to hear stories as well. The wealth of the stories says alot about what the stories are about. Pure love for the M1...
Imr 4895 and a 150 hornady fmj cci number 34 primer. No need to go over 47.0 grains of powder.
Any clue if any bayonets will fit a Garand with a vented or ported gas plug?
Depending which bayonet you get yes, the korean era bayonets probably won't as they secure into the gas plug itself, the ww2 era ones will probably be fine
My 1943 16" bayonet fits. I have a GarandGear plug.
Hello to the States,
I really like your content. Especially on the M1 Garand. I got a Winchester M1 Garand from 1943 and got it refurbished (Glas bedded stock)for competition shooting. What a wonderful weapon and sure fun to shoot. Loving it! I am also using the PPU 30-06 M1 Garand ammo and I'm happy with the results. I am sure you could also use the regular 30-06 PPU ammo since this is only 5% hotter in average than the 'M1 spec ammo'. Doesn't create a hughe price difference though. Cheers and great video!
GS83
GlockShot83 I use the PPU stuff
I like it and it works well for how cheap it is
@@The_SmorgMan May I ask if you use the regular PPU or the Garand labeled stuff?
Cheers and thanks
GS83
I cannot locate M1 surplus stock anywhere. It's all M2 stuff. Do you have any links where to procure any M1 ball? Thanks.
@@ZommBleed M2 Ball is what the M1 Garand was designed to shoot. The US Military phased out M1 Ball before the M1 Garand was developed.
. Hahaha they used up all the M1 ball ammo before the M2 ball ammo. Look it up
I never heard of the "do not grease a garand" myth. Not really possible to get bulk for 50 cents per round anymore unless maybe at a garage sale. I just paid 68 cents per round for 500 rounds of PPU 150gr online and that included a 4 cent per round sales tax.
TSimo113 I had not either till I saw some so-called experts make that claim on a Facebook group page
I grease my m1 but I did read once the garand was designed to fire without grease because of snowy conditions in Korea and other places would cause jamming due to the grease freezing but after it was broken in properly it requires generous greasing.
Thanks, this guy bought his first M1 has shot it less than 500rds and now's he's an expert!! 😂
First great video.
InRange tv did a video about some commercial ammo and sometimes it would slam fire, and the possibility of it cracking the oprod.
I recently bought an M1 Garand. It is a great rifle and I cannot stop myself from learning more and more about this great rifle. I fully agree with him IF younget the chance to get one do it.
As for the bullet weight I've been shooting 180 grain boat tail Spitzer's out of my M1 Garand for over 40 years and I haven't damaged my rifle yet
Got a Springfield, M1, Garand, Made in 1942
im curious how an m1 would fit into a modern army squad. like if theres a good role it could do.
12me91 kinda? It’s a decent rifle but today’s fire and maneuver warfare does not lend itself well to an 8 round rifle.
I personally prefer an M1 over an AR, but I’m more concerned about wolves and bears than terrorists
You could use it well for a more mobile anti material rifle. Still portable compared to gigantic rifles and 30-06 AP or API would ruin anyone’s day
Intimidation.
It would be a decent dmr
Designated marksman rifle would be the only squad role it could play. Could be used as a sniper rifle too.
For all who are worried they bend their oprod.
1. It is already bend. By default. By the factory.
2. Buy an adjustable gas plug. You can set it so even the most powerful load will work just fine
The system of the M1 is incredibly strong.
With the right pressure on the gas system you can not damage it with any factory load
The ammo issue has to do with the burn rate of the powder. Heavier bullet ammo generally uses a slower powder which is where the problem lies. Also, the ammo should be no higher than 50000 psi. Proper handloads will outshoot any factory stuff.
Makes perfect sense. Would love to find an affordable M1 Garand. Just inherited a post '43 M7 bayonet used in Korea.
Hey where did you get that sling at.
I think that would look good on my M1 Garand
Rumor? Before D Day, men cleaning the rifle saw a rod was curved and thought it should be straight and in action then caused the rife to jam?
M2 Ball ammo is preferred.. You can also get an adjustable gas plug and shot W/E you want through it.. I don't hunt with mine because of the terrible low light visibility through the M1 optics..😢😮 I live in Michigan were we can only have 5 loads in a hunting rifle.
Without modifying the gas port, modern ammo will damage your op rod. Even the CMP warns you about that.
Great rifle. Is yours a CMP ? Looks very nice what grade is it? How well does the eldx 178 group? Have you tried any nosler partition how did group? I'm planning on getting a CMP special grade or service grade haven't decided. As far as the General Patton statement I think he was right for the time period and I feel it's even a relevant battle rifle today. I actually like the emblock clip easy to store and trouble free. Think about how many modern firearms have magazine feeding issues and and how many people fumble removing mags. The emblock clip doesn't have to be removed just stuff another in and go. 😁 Thanks for sharing good info 👍
Probably not the best but still relevant especially when you consider fire power. As far as carrying ammo you don't have bulky magazines to carry or hanging down in the way. Thanks again
I have 3 M1 rifles. My go to deer rifle for 38 years.
Interesting choice
I had problems with slam fire from commercial ammo !
I've read that only 30% of infantrymen actually fired their weapons in "anger" in WWII.
Mr. Garand designed his rifle and its ammo. For those that want to shoot any and all ammo found on the market today, just go ahead, do your thing. Repeated shooting WILL weaken the op rod
and it will break. Ask the CMP, they know what they are talking about. Why would you want to risk damaging a beautiful piece of history. Hunting loads will shoot and function but it does damage in the long run. 50,000 CUP is the max.
It only takes about 3 seconds to reload a m-1 if you keep extra nblock's on your sling
When it comes to safe pressure in commercial ammo, I think I will take my advice from CMP
Thx for all the information that was really useful
Use lubraplate for the grease. I use it on my m1 grand m1a and carbine . Now as to the commercial ammo use the reason why you should stick with 150gr is because of over pressure now you can get a adjustable gas plug I recommend it about my self I've been a reenactor / living history since 02 I have as much time behind a m1grand as a solider during WW2 . I'm no expert by no means
CMP Armorer told me to only use red grease.
@@George-tz1cv only problem is the red grease the little pots are getting tough to find at least for me . That's why I went with the lubraplate . Now I use it on my m1 Grand and carbine and my m1a
CMP uses red grease in a bi tube. I guess you could fill your grease pot from it?
@@George-tz1cv true
I used a m 1 and also m 1 carbine and a m 14 in Nam so I know a lot about the m 1, the m 1 carbine and m 14 they are very weapons I also used a Colt ACP 45 as my side arm. My main weapon was a 106 recoiless rifle
Just won one in a gun raffle. Spent $20 its a CMP rifle raffled by the local marine Corp league.
My father was a WWII & KOREA vet. Wishing he was still around to share in the good fortune. Taking as much in about it as possible. I was an M16/M4 warrior. So, needless to say, I dont know Jack about them. I do remember my dad describing wounds it created .. Looking forward to going full send at the range on my new to me M1. Thanks for the info.
Grads. lucky guy. CMP are a good at what they do. I would take it apart and go over it. Make sure it has a new oprod spring.
In the summer days my Garand runs hot and grease is my best friend before buying a m-1 Garand talk to someone who has one. You will want one my m-1 is a 43 from the Philippines war she runs fine
Firing a heavier grain bullet in a semi auto rifle can put excessive wear on the action. That’s why they make adjustable gas systems to compensate for heavier grain bullet.
PPU $1.09 a Round Oct 2022,
In bulk $0.84 a Round
What about the one when what you said about the -in and the Germans knew the gun was empty so American soldiers would take an empty en bloc and bounce it off their helmet to make the ping?
That came from a movie.
I just love mine…❤️
There have been incidences of bend op rods and rifles firing out of battery with out of spec receivers. Hornady loading manual has a section for the M1 rifle which does limit port pressure by the use of medium burn rate powders. There are also adjustable gas plugs that will allow for use of modern ammo. Also it’s a good practice to check all resized cases with a case gauge. Thank you for your presentation, but bend op rods and rifles firing out of battery have occurred in the M1.
I think if someone gives an M1 a steady diet of Modern hunting ammo then yes you could see this. As far as zeroing out the range and taking one or two shots on a hunting trip? I don’t believe this would happen. I have done exactly that and not encountered any issues whatsoever and believe me I inspect my equipment regularly
The best gas plug that allows for the use of modern ammo is the gas plug that came from the factory when the rifle was manufactured. This video was about all the myths and rumors about the M1, and here you are perpetrating another one. The M1 was designed to shoot the military's stockpile of billions of rounds of 30-06 and M1 Ball ammo. The M2 "Garand Ammo" didn't come out until later when National Guard units requested a special run of it for their shorter rifle ranges, as they could overshoot the safety zone. It wasn't until later that regular troops requested the lighter recoiling M2 ammo that M2 eventually became standard. You will NOT bend an op rod shooting regular 30-06 ammo in an M1 Garand. Any instances of bent op rods, blown-up rifles, malfunctions, etc., come from out-of-spec or damaged rifles. Given the millions and millions of M1 Garand rifles that have been manufactured, any failures of the platform account for less and a fraction of 1% of them. A much better failure rate than even modern firearms. People, get a grip, please.
What the Hell are you talking about ? If you are hand loading you are not loading out of specs. You are following the specs .
Thank you for the reality. Bout darn time.
That thing is a bunch of bull you got 500,000 men shooting rifles at each other artillery up to 255 mm going off Morters machine guns I doubt anything going to allow you to hear that ping
Yep at gun ranges with other firearms shooting they won't hear it nor the video recording device
the garand ping is about as believable as that awful dye job your sporting
And all other countries at that time outside the British 303 that held 10 rounds in a magazine all the other bolt action rifles we're fed With a five-round Stripper clip for the 8 Round n block clip the M1 grand used and it was also faster to reload you had more Firepower at your disposal why do you think we won World War II
I love my International Harvester m1. It will hold 3 inches at 100 yards offhand. Not by me my eye are 65 years old my son in law can do it.
Nice. I also have an IHC barrel says LMR 54 and she's all matching. Hi from Canada 🇨🇦
You are correct. There's a variety of ammo that works in the M1. The M1 was NOT designed to shoot M2 Ball. M2 Ball came out AFTER the M1 was designed and already in production. So much bogus info about the M1. All lies from keyboard warriors.
Just because it works doesnt mean its good for the rifle or even safe.
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i completely disagree with you. The M1 Garand specifications was designed for the pressures of the 150 grain cartridge. Anything above the recommend grains of 150 can cause catastrophic failure in the receiver chamber area of the M1 Garand. I invite you to refer yourself to John Garand's note on this subject. I do agree with you in regards to PPU's ammunition's of 150 grains that they produce for the M1 Garand. They do this because many Europeans in fact own M1 Garands. This is something many American's fail to recognize or acknowledge. I know many people buy that adjustable gas plugs which I do not and will not ever agree with that implementation. It is best to truly understand and appreciate the M1 Garand, its best to stay with 150 grains and shoot like our fathers and grandfathers shot during world war 2, Korea, and Vietnam. Only then you will be able to understand the M1 Garand. I did give you a thumb's up for your video.
Correct nomenclature is "M1 Rifle." It's typically know as the "Garand."