1892 Winchester
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- Опубліковано 18 вер 2024
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The 1892 Winchester was Winchester's response to Marlin's model of 1889, which made them seem like they were lagging behind by still promoting their now old design, the 1873. They turned to John Moses Browning to help them "modernize" the Winchester, which resulted in the model of 1892.
Big thanks to Heritage Manufacturing for providing this 1892, not only for this video, but also to use in our Brutality Matches. Another thanks to @TrueShotAmmo for their support for the channel by providing ammo for this video, but also prizes at our Brutality events!
heritagemfg.com/
As a 17 year old travelling in Paris back in the mid 1970's I came across an antique store in which they had a Winchester Yellow Boy with an octagonal barrel.
As a long haired English kid they weren't inclined to take it off display for me to actually touch it, but I really loved that gun on first sight!
Naturally, as a youngster I'd watched westerns in which Winchester lever action rifles and carbines proliferated, and I imagine that I was predisposed to liking these guns.
Decades on, I've never forgotten that beautiful gun in Paris.
Your 1892 looks gorgeous, and I can only imagine how well buyers at the time took to it.
Thank you for your excellent videos on these gorgeous guns.
I've been waiting for years to see you do the 1892, thank you.
Hope you enjoyed it!
Browning was a genius! From Lever actions to Pistols and Machine guns
Hallowed be thy name.
He actually made a machine gun out of a lever action.
Love the detail about how Marlin and Winchester pushed themselves and their products in honest competition. The old days really were something, huh?
A lot of colleagues at my shooting club use 1894 Rossis (mostly stainless variations, verry nice guns) and a couple years ago I was set on buying one of those too.
But then a friend of mine discoverd a Winchester/Miroku 1873 at local shop. I baugt it and today after a lot of competitions all over Bavaria (no cowboy-action though) its the gun in my collection I like the most.
We can never truly appreciate all that John Browning did in his lifetime to progress firearms technologies.
Always love your passion for history, Karl!
8 months back I commented about 1892s and your response was "I don't recommend any Winchester 92s. 1866 or 1873 or go home. :D" so I was a bit hesitant in viewing this video. I'm glad you gave the 1892 a fair shake and I definitely see your perspective for the 1873 now. if you had any desire to slick up an 1892, definitely look into steve's gunz, the Rossi 92 specialist, and that might help it to get a bet closer in smoothness and speed to the 1873. For me though, I'm not a competition or race shooter so my needs are very different. I'm mostly a collector, but I like all of my firearms to have some theoretical function if needed. in my home state, there is a straight walled hunting law but unlike many other states that have caliber or OAL restrictions, Maryland has a minimum energy requirement for hunting rounds fired from a handgun (700 foot pounds muzzle energy or greater) or rifle (1200 foot pounds muzzle energy or greater) so, for me, power does matter, and the 1873 cannot be chambered in a caliber that meets these requirements. the 1892, chambered in 44 Magnum is capable of reaching 1200 foot pounds of muzzle energy and it can be paired with my Ruger Blackhawk bisley in 44 Magnum to achieve over 700 foot pounds of energy in the same caliber. this is why I settled on the 1892 as my preferred lever gun.
Uberti did actually make an 1873 in 44 Mag, but I'm not sure I'd want my face right behind that toggle...
I have one, hundreds of rounds through it without issue. If you look on the website for their Hunter model, Uberti specifically states that they heat treat the steel with .44 Magnum in mind, and this does not apply to the .45 Colt model. They are properly proofed.
@@SuperLysergic I'm sure that's absolutely true, but I still wonder if the toggle links can handle heavy loads over a long period of time. There's only so much you can do to strengthen that design
A Rossi 1892 was my first gun! Not gonna lie, I bought her with my Covid check. Such a fun rifle to shoot!
I've missed the Q&A's! There's a quality to them that I can't quite put my finger on that other people's Q&A's don't have, especially when you have friends along with differing opinions or otherwise just foil your point of view.
I met you a few years back in Finland, and it was a delight that you have that quality in person too.
I am actually doing a Q&A this month and then the future ones are going to be Patreon perks only. Thank you for the kind words and I'm glad we met!
I have a Rossi 92 in 38/357 and to make it feed smoother took a little chamfering of the chamber bottom to make it like a feed lip. A little off does it so no worries about cartridge head failures.
The second best thing was to replace the ejector spring with a much softer one. Mine would throw empties way over my head...and that energy came from increased closing effort as the ejector got compressed. Softer spring doesn't throw them as far and requires just a light touch to close now. Good guns made better with just a wee bit of effort.
I feel very happy with these conclusions and it makes me feel even better about opting for an 1892 action when I picked mine up. 😁👍
Winchester: John, can you make our rifles robust enough for 45-70?
JMB: You mere mortals and your silly requests. I can do significantly better than that.
Always a good day when Karl posts leverguns.
Karl, I have seen a '73 fail due to an out of battery discharge. The shooter was fine if peeved. The firing pin retainer sheared, jamming the firing pin forward. The exploding cartridge forced the lifting block down with enough force to bend the lever. I replaced the pin, the lever was straightened by a competent gunsmith (and she OK'd the gun), and the owner still shoots it today as bad as he ever did :)
I won a Rossi 1892 Winchester competing in CMSA in 2006, and i LOVE that little rifle!
I'm so happy to hear that the 92 is a serviceable lever action.
Seeing John Moses Browning holding posing for a picture with his finger on the trigger makes me feel funny, like when I climbed the rope in gym class.
I agree the toggle link is a lot smoother. I love the way the way the toggle link sounds too it is such a iconic sound. The 1892's made by Chiappa in Italy does not have any safeties.
The reason why Winchester did not chamber the 1876 in .45-70 was to do with cartridge overall length.
The .45-70 was available in two common loadings with different bullet weights and different overall lengths.
The elevator in the 1876 could be made to work with one load or the other but not with both interchangeably in the same rifle.
Yeah, they offered the 1876 in a .50-95 express round also designed for the gun with a defined OAL, I'll hazard a guess that's hotter than any .45-70 loading around at the time.
I have a Spanish El Tigre copy of one of those! I love it, but 44-40 ammo doesn't really exist anymore so it just lives in my safe. But I'm glad you shouted out trueshot, I will look to them to get a few boxes!
fun fact: many distributors won't ship lever action rifles with a fixed magazine capacity greater than 10 rounds to Maryland despite the restriction only applying to centerfire semiauto rifles. one of the many weird inconveniences of living in a ban state
You can buy original 1892 Winchesters for about $800-1200. They are very plentiful right now on the auction market. Don't bother with a repro unless you really want one in .38 SPL/.357 Magnum.
What about the ammo?
Many originals are in 32-20. Who makes 32-20? How easy is it to get? What about reloading 32-20? Has starline brass stopped making 32-20 brass? Are there alternative brass makers?
Best comment!
Karl can truly run a lever gun. Pleasure to watch.
I love the levergun content and I really appreciate the explanation of the '73 versus the '92. But what I TRULY want to watch is a comparison video of the Winchester 1886 versus the Marlin 1895! I very much enjoy my 1895CB with the giant octagon barrel but I'd quite like to add an '86 to the collection as well.
Damn 1892 Winchester one of my favorite old style guns amazing video
Love the 1892 in a carbine. Mine was supposedly an elk camp outhouse gun in a previous life. Fortunately, it only smells like oil and gunpowder.
I've always loved the late-west feel of the 1892, thank you for giving it a fair shake.
I'd love to see you do the Winchester 94 and 95 as well as the Marlin lever guns as well. They're great guns and further advancements on the 1892.
Nice, Karl. I didn't think you were gonna get a Brazilian.
it's remarkable how much that 1892 bolt looks like a 1900 series automatic pistol slide.
I received,as a gift from the wife, a Rossi R92,16" bbl. Love that little rifle! The only problem was it was supposed to be in 38/357! When she brought it home, turns out to be.45 Colt!! No problem! Now I have TWO R92 s!!! Added the 38/357 carbine a couple years ago!!
Great video, very info dense. I'm not into old west, but love lever gun ergonomics.
Also, I can't think of any channel more immune to sponsorship bias. You're integrity on this is unmatched.
Thank you, and glad you enjoyed it!
Whats the difference between the 92 and 94? In my video game education the 94 is the iconic levergun- its been interesting learning more of the history from your videos
92 is pistol cartridges, 94 is slightly larger for rifle cartridges, such as the 30-30.
@@InrangeTv oh, makes sense!
If you look for it you see the 92 a lot in Western movies/TV, even if it's set before 1892.
I thought I would hate the safety on top and planned on removing it. I ended up liking it. What I do after loading the rifle, I turn the safety on, lower the hammer to half cock, then turn the safety off. This way if I slip, it does not go off. The safety only blocks the firing pin, so I can lower the hammer without trouble.
One issue I have with that feeding is the rifle will not feed upside down. I know, kind of an odd situation to even have to use such a weapon upside down, but on the off chance I do, I know it will not feed properly. I have heard mixed results so it really depends on the individual rifle. Mine is in .357 by the way. Had a ton of that ammo anyway so might as well.
I love my 1892 in 32WCF, it was my great grandfathers.
Great stuff about the differences between the '73 and the '92, particularly in how the design differences manifest themselves in use.
As far as repros go it's also *way* easier to find a Heritage or Rossi or whatever than an Uberti at a local gun store. I might end up picking one of these up, lever guns are fun but expensive.
A bit over 40 years ago my late father inherited his grandfather's service long gun from his time in the Texas Rangers. Sadly I nor the Rangers have proper data on his time in due to losses in documentation both in their archives (fires, floods) and loss of the estate related to swindling of his widow. Gun's an 1893 rifle in .38-55 Win with some very suspicious blotches in the stock. We both surmised they were related to some of the lead the undertaker found in him. About 20 years before that, my father traded a cousin on the same side a few years supply of tobacco for a Savage 1899 takedown in .22 Savage Hi-power. It's apparently taken a couple thousand deer in it's life but it's still nice and tight (takedowns are notorious for getting sloppy) and you can probably light matches with it if you wanted. They're obviously both mine now. IIRC he dated both to being pre-1920s production, but my memory is dung, he didn't tend to write things down and.... well you know what happens if you don't write things down and you're no longer around to tell stories.
I always loved the ‘86 and ‘92 Winchesters. Browning designs are fantastic.
I ended up with a Chiappa produced, Taylor & Co “Huntsman” in .45 Colt.
It’s basically a trapper carbine with some updated sights.
Been a solid rifle.
Nothing beats the speed and smoothness of the Winchester 73. Except JMBs genius 😉
More on the 45-60 please!
Love it. If you're used to a '73, short stroking a '92 is easy! I'm glad Trueshot is helping you out. Now that I know that, I'll frequent them more often.
Yep, I usually run a 66, actually...but that's what happened on the 92 in this video.
My favourite style of rifle, as well! Besides several 1894s, I do have a Model 1892 made in the first year of production, in 38WCF. Lovely, but expensive to shoot! So my CAS rifle is a Marlin 1894 in 45 Colt. Thanks for the video, Karl! 👍
I got the rossi92 in 44mag 16". Super fun gun that kicks a lot. In fact the stock broke under recoil.
I don't know much about lever-actions so this was a very interesting side-by-side comparison
I have a Win 94AE in .38/.357 and an 1873 and used to have a Henry Big Boy in the UK. I love the 94, I tend to go for 16 inches because the extra capacity isn't worth it for me vs the size and weight of the gun. The only downside with the 94 vs the 73 is I can't top up the tube mid shooting which doesnt make it great for your matches. But it is really easy to single load, you can even just drop a round onto the lifter like a shotgun so you dont have to thumb a round directly into the chamber. I do love those. The 1873 is nice, a bit heavier like mentioned and less support for different sighting systems. I found the gun to shoot very high with all replacement sights and the front sight is a barrel band which makes it harder to swap out. I do feel the 94 was smoother than the 1873 but the 1873 was new. The big boy was just as smooth as the 94 even when new. I just didnt like the tube loading system it had, not had a chance to try the later side gate models. I love these guns. I only had 1 small go on a 92 which was a Chiappa, was a bit clunky. But it was before most of my other experience. Thanks for the video.
Winchester and Marlin make wonderful lever guns…can’t go wrong with any model…my fave will always be the 30/30 94….if you enjoy pliinking you can get the low recoil 30/30 loads for and still enjoy precision accuracy…great vid…subbed.
I used one in 45 Colt with blackpowder and found that the chamber was on the large side of the spec. My sizer die was on the tight side and I had it reamed out a little. With Magtech brass, which is a little thinner and softer then other brass I had almost no blowby. Took it apart only twice a year at most. Used Big Lube bullets and with 3 patches the barrel was clean again.
YMMV
Four Eyes Henry
I liked my chiappa 1892 very much until it blew up in my hands a few weeks ago lol the bolt face broke in two I’m in the uk so still waiting to see what chiappa say we will see
Karl, you gotta stop this. I'm literally waiting on my 1892 from Chiappa to arrive.
If you really wanted to say thank you to Heritage you would review one of their 22lr/mag revolvers.
One plus for the '92 that I didn't hear, they're so strong they can take big bore magnum rounds. .44 magnum. .45 colt ruger-only loads. Can't shoot those through a toggle link. Although with the light weight of the '92, you may not enjoy doing that for long or may want to have the additional weight of a buttpad. Still .44 mag is a legitimate hunting gun for game like deer, especially in places with straight wall cartridge laws.
I recently bought a rossi in .45 colt and finding them for $500-600 is tough. I purchased mine for just under $600 with shipping and FFL fees from a drop-shipping dealer over the internet, but at my local gunshop they were running more like $800. Still several hundred less than an Italian 73 or 66 though.
Another advantage of an 1892 over a 1873, you can get it in .44 Rem Magnum vs. .357 Magnum being the top end for an 1873.
Hope you keep the Q&A’s public as we learn a lot from you even if we can’t support during this season of our lives.
Yup. Not really relevant to cowboy action or brutality matches but certainly can be for hunting
Most natural pointing rifle I own.
Have one of those in 357/38. I really like it and it's nice that it uses the same ammo as the revolver i have.
My only two things are the length of pull is a bit short for me, (got around that with a self made extension) and the buckhorn sights. My eyes want to use them like half of a ghost ring, but then it shoots way high of course. So i have to really concentrate to ignore the "horns".
Savage 99!
I really like my 92 from South America. I have had it for over 20 years and it wasn't new when I bought it. No modern safety. I actually prefer to hunt with it because it is a short carbine but also light. You feel a major difference between it and the Marlin 30-30 I have. Doing a stalking hunt you really notice the difference especially in heavy brush and ravine country.
agreed on this issues with the feed angle. it wouldn't matter as much with a tapered caliber like the 44-40, but for straight walled calibers feeding is best suited to round nose profiles. LFN, SWC, WFN, WLN, etc. can all have issues feeding
The Marlin 1894 in pistol caliber if you're not forceful you can Short Stroke or even tie up the action so you have to be a little rough with the lever in order to get it without a hiccup.
There is mounting holes under the rear sight for a pic rail if thats your cup of tea
darn those glasses look sleek
Funny you release this just after I get a Rossi and immediately have a feeding problem of 45lc rims getting caught on the rails at that awkward angle
My favorite pistol caliber carbine
Goddamn I love lever guns.
Love your stuff. My plan is to make a brutally match and shoot deadeye. Just a little tricky to come from Canada. Thanks for all you do. 👍
I have a Marlin in 444. You have to cycle it with authority! If you short cycle, or try to be gentle, you have to remove the lever to clear the jam! In my experience leverguns like to be handled with some force.
Great info for anyone trying to figure out which model of levergun they want to get. 😁👍
Glad it was helpful!
The heritage and the Rossi are the same gun, they are both made by “CBC” in Brazil. The Italian repros don’t have the safety on the bolt, I’ve only seen it on the CBC guns.
A number of years ago, you did a video where you went through techniques to smooth out the action of your 1860/66/73 as well as "gamer" techniques to run the gun more efficiently. Will you be doing a similar video on the 1892?
No, because they really don't lend themselves to that.
@@InrangeTv fair enough. Thank you for all your hard work. Ive been watching your channel for almost 10 years now i realize, and the amount of of consistent, quality content you have been putting out in that time is commendable. No gods, no masters.
I'd a rossi in .357 some years back. First rifle I'd issues with right out the box. Front sight was so loose just fell out the notch. And working the action would pop the loading gate out locking the action till it was beat back in. It would only get worse where I never even fired it just sold it off first opportunity.
Damn, I really should buy more lever guns.
I'll be buying ammo from trueshot now
Great job, keep it up.
Thanks, will do!
Nice fashion
Thanks for the video. I wish they would bring back the Lightening, Thunderbolt, Timberwolf. Pumps are slightly faster than levers and you don't have to remove your finger from the trigger well when cycling.
Pumps are absolutely not faster than the 1866 or 73 Winchesters.
@@InrangeTv We'll have to agree to disagree. I've shot the Thunderbolt and 1873 and was faster with the Thunderbolt. If felt the same with my Henry Golden Boy and my Rossi pump. The rack time was similar but because my strong hand never left the stock or finger the trigger well, my times were ~5% faster and that is with very little time on the Thunderbolt (haven't timed the 22s against the clock). Note, I do have lots of time on pump shotguns, so a pump gun was not foreign to me.
Pump actions, for all practical realities, are not used in cowboy action shooting, and CAS is entirely speed based. You are objectively incorrect, and if you're faster with a pump, it's a lever gun skill issue - not the tech. If have CAS scores to show as evidence, then please present as such.
@@InrangeTv I'm a casual shooter. Former military and LEO. I've done my fair share of shooting. I AM NOT a cowboy action shooter.
I find the pump faster and you, as a content creator, I would think telling a viewer they suck at running a lever gun and that what they have observed in their practical application is wrong, is narrow minded and myopic and even a bit condescending .
You're not very bright when it comes to catering to a customer base. Sad.
I've owned both the Winchester 94 and the Marlin 336, I prefer the 336, I feel it's a better design and looks nicer and more like a vintage lever gun, but both are great. I think I'm going back to the 94 because I found an original that has a side mount scope and the iron sights are still on it.
Moar levergun. MOAR
Great video!👍🏽😊❤️🇺🇸
Glad you enjoyed it!
Its very much just like my Winchester model 94 just im a pistole caliber, both have the locking lug set up.
Nice but I'll keep my Marlin ❤
You can find an 1892 for like 600? That sounds pretty nice.
Savage!
Could you do a comparison video 1873 uberti vs miroku
I was hoping you would compare the Heritage to the Rossi and see if they are completely identical.
There's just something about lever action guns.
And Heritage man.
First! I love the Winchester 1892! What a legend!
Witch Finder General brutality league when?
The '92 Rossi does not like the SWC bullet. OAL is a factor on cartridges as well. I settled on use of the Missouri Bullet Company RNFP HITEK for the least of problems loading. My .357 Mag unit does not like the shorter .38SPL and kicks out a couple at a time if stroked with vigor. Buckhorns were replace with different sights with a flat top. Marbles, I think. The safety on top has been replaced with an aftermarket piece. The action has been smoothed considerably and the springs replaced. I use it in CAS but it is way slower than others with the 1873 or 1866 slicked out. But, this was all done for under $800. The 1873 that I would like is more than twice that much. Even then, I could only pick up a few seconds per stage.
I started with my Henry Big Boy in .357 Mag. It only holds eight rounds so I have to take two misses or load on the clock which I have learned to do in less time than a miss. The Henry action is way too clunky for CAS IMHO. Mine does not have the side gate.
Serious question from a hunter who is nothing like a gunsmith: I’ve shot and hunted with Winchester 94s in 30-30 my whole life and am always surprised at how slick and smooth the action on 92s are - you can cycle the action with a flick of the wrist. Even well worn 94s are not that way - there’s a “hitch” in the action that leads me to take it down from the shoulder to cycle the action. Why is this? Is this due to 92s being in pistol cartridges vs larger calibers in the 94 or is there a difference in the internals of the action? Thanks Karl!
I have a rossi with the same safety I leave it off unless lowering the hammer to half cock for hunting it prevents hammer slippage from resulting in a negligent discharge.
Neato!
Lever gat!
As far as I can tell the only difference between the Rossi and the heritage 92s are the stocks. the heritage has a curved buttplate with rounded ends, while the rossi has pointed ends. also the Heritage stock has a brand in the bottom corner. I've only seen pictures and video though so it would be nice to get the opinion of someone who has had hands on experience. word is Rossi is discontinuing the R92 line and their lever action rifles will be transitioned to heritage.
Taurus owns Rossi and Heritage. I'm pretty sure Rossi is still making the rifles. They are just using the Heritage brand name since it has a more Old West vibe.
How does the 73 hold up to a steady diet of regular 357 and maybe an occasional hunting load? I’ve seen rumors online of the action stretching or something, but that sounds like potential fudd engineering.
Looking to pick up a lever gun and pistol in matching calibers soon, mostly just for fun. I’m leaning towards an unberti 73 rifle and peacemaker in 357, or a stainless marlin and Ruger of some sort (357 or 44).
Having owned several 1873 Winchester rifles, even one chambered in the diminutive .22 Short, and three 1892's in 32-20 and .44 WCF, and even a large loop 16 inch barrel Puma Rossi in .44 Magmun, I find my '92 44 WCF carbine the most balanced and easy to aim weapon of the lot. I don't see much difference in cycling the 1873 vs the 1892, but the '73 being a round barrel rifle much heavier. Although I no longer own two of them, the '92 octagon rifle in 38-40 was fun to shoot, and the .22 Short Model '73 was almost laughable in being overkill. Thanks for your interesting video.
Lever guns are the best guns
You need to be riding standing or kneeling for the lever action. Not to mention dirt or grit or bent parts.
Such a cool gun but the bolt action is far more durable. I love these guns tho
Lever guns can't be used prone.
ua-cam.com/users/shortsRCtrXWqkhVU?feature=share
As you move through the different time frames of the Winchester how do their uses change. Are they firearms that the average person would have or more specialized in their use. I am always trying to get a more accurate view of the old west. Thank You