Singapore Talking Pts - Delays, Stewarding and a Looong Race
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2022
- This week we're mostly talking about things taking a long time, be they the length of the race, the start of the race, the stewards' decisions or the switch to dry tyres. Much waiting!
#formula1 #f1 #singaporegp
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Consensus is definitely that the extra hour bought people a LOT of time to get errands done!
I woke up an hour late and it was perfect 😂
I had problems with DAZN, I would have missed the start!!
I baked a cake! It was a good cake.
I woke up late and travelled to my mates place on 3 spoons of cereal. Went down to the stores (which would be closed during start) and got everything!
Lol not for me it was 5 am for me. I had to wait till 6:05
The delayed start gave ma an opportunity to do groceries before the race, watch the race and after the race head out for diner.
Nicely organised from you, well done
Why'd you get groceries and then go out for dinner? Were the groceries pre-preparation for the week to come?
The delayed start meant that my recording cut out halfway through the race and I missed the last half... Which was apparently the good half :(
@@domicceareal5234 I usually do groceries on sunday for the next full week. I was prepared to go watch the race, speedrun the groceries afterwards and head out for diner then. It would probably have worked out as well. Now I just did the speedrunning groceries before the race due to the 1hr delay I spotted when tuning in. Worked out great!
I would have missed the start of the race if it had started at the regular time. I'd just got out of bed (sue me, it's the weekend) and was having a nice long shower, thinking the race would start at 15:00 CET instead of the scheduled 14:00... Fortunately it more or less did in the end because of the delay.
My mom needs round the clock care since she suffered a spine injury two weeks ago, it was really important for me to come back from work and watch the race with my dad, since his morale was really down and he hadn't slept in days, however it was looking like i wouldn't make it in time so the 1 hour delay came in super handy. A much needed moment of good fortune for my family. Enjoy your time with the ones closest to you, you never know what the future holds... I wish everyone in the chainbear audience all the best!
Glad you got the time you needed together, wishing the best for your family!
Hope your parents get better !
In my opinion the weekend showed how special vettel’s 9 in a row is. Getting to those near perfect levels 9 race weekends in a row, even if you’re clearly the fastest guy, is absolutely incredible.
I don't know... Max got absurdly unlucky the entire weekend. If they don't stop his second to last lap in Q3, he's on pole and likely manages the race from there, as he usually does. If he has a bit more gas in the tank, he finishes his last lap in Q3, is on pole and the same holds true. Just one SC at the right point in time and he again has a good chance to make up a lot of time. If Hamilton doesn't sneak in juuuust before him after his unsafe return to the race, he doesn't hold him up with that dangerously broken wing.
That weekend, everything went against Max. He wouldn't have needed to be lucky, just less unlucky.
A trend I had began seeing from Checo lately is that he conserves his tyres before going all out near the end of the race, often lapping nearly a second faster than those on P2 or P3. He has the pace, and the last 10min of Singapore showed it clearly. And then combine that with the tricky condition and the fact that this is a street circuit.
I feel like if Checo and Leclerc switch places, Checo has a bit higher chance of passing the Ferrari. Not a very high chance, but certainly higher than what Leclerc could do.
Of course he has a higher chance of overtaking, he has the OP engine after all
I also can't help but feel that Red Bull's strategy team probably would have correctly deduced that the overcut was more powerful than the undercut in those conditions, while on Sunday Ferrari clearly didn't catch onto that and tried an undercut with Leclerc.
Given the fequency of safety cars in this race I think McLaren might have actually been waiting for one for a cheap pit stop.
Great video as always!
Especially as Lando’s race engineer had told him to make his inters last longer than everyone else’s.
According to the former McLaren engineer on BBC commentary, it used to be common for them to plan on pitting last and especially at places like Singapore where safety cars are quite common even in the dry. Certainly makes sense, especially with ihathtelekinesis's point about the earlier radio message.
The lap time comparison with Perez vs Leclerc and Sainz was really well done. I liked using Perez as the "100%" so it was a little easier to visualize how fast/slow his competitors were vs the chart you used with Russell.
I'm glad you cleared up the 3 hour start timer, sky (UK) said that the 3 hours started at 8pm (the original race start)
Because thats what they thought. They also said it stated at 9:05 when they realised that
British Sky muppets don’t know half the dribble the spew on broadcast. All they know is eat hot chip, kiss George Russle’s cheeks, and lie.
They didn’t
Nice video. One tiny mistake! At -3 mins to lights out, it's 16 team personnel total, 8 per car.
I like that the video length is 1234, very well done
The delayed start was fine, annoying but fine. Ultimately they didn’t want another Spa situation, and overall it was the right decision. The Perez situation is unacceptable for something that blatantly obvious. It should have been dealt with immediately.
5:20 I don't think car lengths are the criteria they should use. During races, there are graphics that show the distance between cars, and we can see how they change every corner (shrinking when the car ahead reaches a corner, and growing when it accelerates but the car behind is still in the corner). I think they should use time difference, drivers are already used to follow and work with time deltas, during VSC, and in general during races against other drivers. Plus, it will be easier to check, they already time each microsector.
All you have to do is make sure it's within ten car lengths at any point. Not exactly ten car lengths
@@chainbear I know it's not exactly ten cars, that's not the point. I was trying to say that drivers (and spectators) are used to time deltas, which is a more consistent way of measuring it.
This analysis is up there with SkyF1 or even better. Bravo Bravo Mr. Bear!
“Mr. Bear is my father’s name. Please, call me Chain”
Up there with SkyF1?
Mate, ANYTHING is better than SkyF1.
Jesus it's waaaaaay better than sky
@@greatsageclok-roo9013 Idk about anything being better, but Chain Bear is at least
Sky doesn't do Analysis or logical thought
Part of why we got so close to the intended race distance is because the rule is technically 2 hours plus one lap. Perez had a final time of over 2:02:20, as he started the penultimate lap with about a minute to go. The two hour clock expired during lap 57.
It seems likely that with fewer SC interventions we could have completed the full race distance but still been just over two hours. Given that every Singapore GP to date has had at least one SC period, and they tend to be longer here, I think that clock was always going to be a risk. Especially when you consider the extra tire preservation that happens in a race, as opposed to free practice.
I find it interesting that ChainBear didn't comment on the FIA giving a Repremarnd, a warning and a penalty. I wanted Checo to win that race but that screams 'we don't want to change the race result after the fact'
Wonder if it's a similar thing to track limits where you get 3 infringements before getting a penalty.
If they had just given him a penalty immediatly he would not have done it 2 more times, this dilly dallying causes more incidents to happen due to the drivers not being mindful about some procedures
He did, though. Around 4:00
@@staomruel I meant his opinion on it being bs for that to happen.
I find it interesting he didn't even bring up how Russell should've been penalized for Destroying Mick's race and then not even admitting it was his fault.
Nice analysis. The start procedure seemed appropriate to me. It's a live event, folks (and broadcasters) need to be able to cope with delays.
Thank you for bringing up the delayed start not being unreasonable. Reddit went nuts over the start calling it all sorts of crap, as someone who was attending the race I didn't feel as though they could have done much better unless they delayed for half an hour and expected that the teams would set up in the rain for a start timed for when the rain had stopped.
They should have a quick grid procedure for race delays like they do in MotoGP
I'm glad for the delay. Forgot the 1pm UK time start and joined at 1.15pm to find out the delay :)
If you ever feel useless, remember that there still is a Wet tyre for Formula 1
Excellent analysis as always. Thank you!
Excellent graphics 👏🏼👏🏼
Everyone complaining about waiting an hour for the race while I'm in America and didn't have to wake up at 7AM for the race
Perez - King of the delayed start win
(I have been waiting for this video for sooo long) the time it took for this video to be uploaded feels like the time it took to start the race
11:38 what really annoys me is that the lines aren't all closer to 100 during VSC periods.
You've talked before about changing up Monaco to keep it a unique, distinctive event. I have a similar suggestion for Singapore - do it to time rather than laps every time! One of the reasons Singapore is cool is that it feels like an endurance race in more ways than one. I'd love to see F1 double down on this concept and just give us a two hour timed run, much like an endurance race.
One fault with that is that you can't really judge fuel load required based on time… or at as easily as you can with distance.
so a FE styled race? FE, IIRC, do it 1h+1L singapore could do 1: 30+2L, just to switch up the formula a bit... with the extra 2L for a sprint if they could do it after conserving or competing for the past 1: 30h and maybe even adding in a pit restriction during that period or up to it...
I thought the race was scheduled to begin 1 hour later, so the delay put me on pair with what I've planned (getting out to vote). Perfect
Oh, vote where? (Which country?)
@@antonberglund117 Brazil (both options are so bad man)
@@thiagoveloso7610 Oh, so you have a two-paty system?
In Sweden we voted on the 11th of September this year (which also was a Formula 1 weekend, but I was at work).
@@antonberglund117 actually Brazil have 30+ parties, but general elections always end up with a 2nd phase with only the top 2 candidates
@@thiagoveloso7610 Oh, I see.
Intressting how different countries work.
Pérez easily pulled a 7 sec gap at the end, so you can't really say Leclerc could match him...
Perez was constantly pulling away from Leclerc, without SVC and SC, Perez would have built a 30+ second gap
Indeed, plus as we have seen regularly the Ferrari is initially quick as seen in quali, but tyre deg always seems to bite them much earlier than on the RBs.
Two things worth pointing out about penalties and "not wanting to effect who wins the race."
1. Not wanting to effect who wins with penalties is stupid in the first place. In the NFL the ref isn't like "Defense, holding, 5 yard penalty, automatic first down, except this is a really critical play for the offense, and if they get a free first down they keep their drive alive and might pull off a comeback win, so penalty is automatically dismissed." If you don't want to lose because of a penalty, don't get a penalty.
#2. If you issue the penalty before the result is known, ie the race ends, rather than after, your penalty is certain to be less biased towards effecting the outcome of the race than if you wait until after. Since the result of the race was known when the decision was made, the decision is inherently more biased towards either preserving or overturning the race results than it would have been if made during the race. Since the teams and drivers would be able to account for the penalty if it were known about during the race, then maybe Ferrari and LeClerc can push extra hard, catch up close enough, and snag Perez's mistake for an upset win, or maybe Perez knows he's got a penalty and has to push harder to stay ahead etc. A faster, accurate decision on penalizing is more fair and less of a bias that impacts the outcome because it gives the drivers and teams recourse.
This really isn't rocket science.
what are the point of the blue striped wet tyres?
I completely forgot to check when the race started. When I looked into f1tv, the race had started 2 minutes before...
The extra hour was a blessing for me xD
The delay made me fall asleep on the couch before the race got going. But at least I woke up again around lap 50 to see how FIA steward failing again.
Sky told us that the 3 hour clock had started at the original start time!
They corrected themselves once they realised
Perez is once again, a speedometer.
Like the channel, you should read up on the 1A lol, all love
Unfortunately the delay meant I could barely stay awake for the first half and fell asleep in the second half, when all the interesting stuff happened 😭
The first hour of the race had me nodding off, literally.
Nothing actually happened in the second half of the race, people are overegging it. Nobody was able to overtake and the ones who did try to messed it up. At the end of the race I felt like there's no point watching the rest of the season because the last few races have been rubbish
The second half was boring though, overtaking was just too difficult. The only 'fun' part was watching Hamilton and to a lesser extent Verstappen lose their minds after being stuck behind slow cars most of the race.
Same. Races are normally 10pm in my time zone, and I was thrilled this race would be 9pm and therefore a nice 11pm bedtime..but alas, the delay meant another midnight bedtime.
Watching this now after Japan I can't wait for the next video
That little “PEREZ” graphic at the end was… well it should become it’s own thing if it isn’t already. T-Shirt material right there.
Regarding delayed start - do you think it's a pity to lose the kind of super wet conditions that made drives like Donnington 93; Barcelona 96 or Silverstone 08 possible?
I appreciate the safety first arguments, but also feel like racing in very difficult rain is meant to be one of F1's selling points.
I don’t understand why he completely ignored this point. as Martin Brundle says “the throttle pedal works both ways.” Its honestly so disheartening to see what has happened to wet races these past years. Last great wet race i can remember is hockenheim 2019. Before that Brazil 2016. In todays formula 1 Brazil 2016 would have never even taken place.
I'd say it depends a LOT on the track. Going on soaking wet conditions in Singapore is a recipe for tens of laps behind a safety car and maybe even a red flag. Not that I'm fully against it, but a track known for having people crash all the time is not the best place to test how good an F1 car is as a sailboat. Also, not an engineer, but wouldn't standing water be a HORRIBLE idea with the ground effect cars?
@@nerd_nato564 Ground effect cars are not a new concept. For example the original poster mentioned Donington 1993. A completely wet race with ground effect cars. Look it up and see for yourself how much carnage there was. The point is the drivers are in control of their cars. Were talking the 20 best drivers on the planet and we get robbed of seeing full wets. Just a shame its come to this
I was seated at Turn 7 during the entire weekend. Boy, the rain was worth it. The spectacle and atmosphere was really worth it. The concerts were really just the icing on the cake!
I just wish the venue had better food and toilets, but a really memorable experience nonetheless.
I even got a hi from Seb while he was jogging on the track after qualifying!
ain't the mud worth it then? it's like going outfield civ version huh?
Thank god for the delay, woke up an hour after the race was scheduled to start. Only lost 5 laps
I was sitting in the Grandstand and I got the impression that Sainz feel more than 10 car lengths behind LeClerc during the safety car laps, and I think Hamilton complained about this. Is there any info on this.
I didn't get to see the race live, so when I watched back on Sky, it overrun and it cut out with 5 minutes left.
I'm quite sure McLaren counted on someone causing a safety car with those dry tires, thus not changing for dry tires earlier.
Call me a pedant... but it's not obvious to me from reading 55.7 that it includes the gap from the leader to the SC.
It says the "competing cars" must be "no more than ten car lengths apart".
They took so many time for everything that the broadcast in my country started 8 hours after the race ended without previous warning
Personal opinion, I think the stewards KNEW they made a mistake by being too slow to deliver the first penalty for Perez. If those first 5s had been given as soon as possible (so just a few laps after Sergio's first mistake), it is pretty much a given that Checo would NOT have done the same mistake again during the second SC.
So, in order to make amends for their slowness, I think the stewards decided to apply only 5s and not 10s based on that fictional but very realistic scenario if they hadn't been so slow.
This obviously couldn't be official explanations so they had to come up with something else... Which without surprise did not (and still doesn't) sound very convincing and/or coherent.
You actually only need to complete 59 out of 61 laps before the two hour limit, because you will finish lap 60 when time has run out, and the there is one more lap since the limit is 2 hours + one lap.
Noticed a tiny mistake that I haven't seen anyone else mention. The heading at the bottom at around the 1:20 says 'Normal Start Proceudre'.
I agree with you, except for one thing :
If the penalty was given within the race, Charles would won it. He will not attack and ruin his tyre, he will just manage the 5s gap.
That was a good race. Also, comment rules, really? 😂
I thought the race was at the same time as qualifying so was asleep until just before almost missed the start if it wasnt for the delay.
Why did net not start in the rain on wets? Why the delay?
I read some stuff about safety but isn't that what wet tires are for?
The problem with wet races aren't necessarily grip, but sight. Wet tires work by displacing as much water as possible, meaning the faster you go, the more water is sprayed behind the car, making it significantly more dangerous to follow. I don't know if we'll ever see wet tires used again in F1
In 2010 Hungaruan GP Vettel got a drivethrough after doing this ONCE. Checo was lucky not being in 2010 curcumstances)
What really catches my eye lately is that the midfield leaves insanely huge gaps to the car in front on safety car restarts. Sometimes they are 3+ seconds behind on the restart, which is not only insane but also amateurish, if it is indeed 'by accident'. They should know better. I know they have leeway under the current rules but I'd argue it should be penalized, as they not only disadvantage themselves by leaving such a pointlessly big gap, but also for every driver behind, as they are forbidden to pass before the line.
Never knew Asian Monaco was a thing😴🥱
When do they decide to ditch the remaining laps & switch to the timer? What if track conditions massively improve & you actually end up doing more than the allocated number of laps by the time the clock hits zero?
They decide to ditch the remaining laps and switch to time when there is no longer enough time for people to do every lap, assuming every single lap is run at qualifying speed.
Cars are much, much slower in the race than in qualifying. The track can't physically improve enough to make the cars go faster on a heavy fuel load and with old tyres thna when they're flying around on 1 lap of fuel and fresh softs.
@@doghat1619 Is "qualifying speed" what the simulations say the cars do on a dry track with soft tyres & low fuel? Or is it like the actual time of the pole lap because if it is, qualifying could've been in extremely wet conditions so dry laps towards the end of the race would be faster than pole.
Was wondering What happened to George, he seemed to be a bit lost this weekend
For some reason, I thought that 9pm was the starting time, so thanks to the delay I turned it on at just the right time instead of missing half the race
Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to watch the race, as Disney’s contract with Dish expired and ESPN broadcasting didn’t continue until nighttime, that day.
There are lots of streams you can watch. They might not necessarily be legal but you can watch them nonetheless.
What is the point in having wet weather tyres if they always delay the race long enough to not have to use them. Remember when we used to have Monsoon tyres and drivers would just drive in the conditions and adapt their driving. So many opportunities for great races ruined because of the FIA and Stewards not wanting the top runners to go skidding off
No word on Verstappen doing his best yo-yo impression? =P
I’m not sure I agree that Charles has the same pace as Perez. After each safety car checo pulled out multiple seconds multiple times. Had there not been so many safety cars I think he wins by 15 seconds or more.
I thought the Singapore grand prix was really exciting.
Any Singaporean driver could have told the strategists that the roads take a long time to dry up... 😛
well... if they wanted they could have had some of the marshals dusting off the wetness...
@@PrograError They did! The broadcast before the race showed the marshals sweeping/brushing water loads directly off the racing line.
The start could be a little less delayed like say 8:45 or 8:50. A wet start?
I feel like the VSCs actually screwed Russell over since they prevented him from keeping temperature in the slick tires. I'd wager that without the following VSCs, he'd have been able to get the tires up to temperature and get some competitive times in a lot sooner.
Super wet street races arent that fun to watch imo. I think this was the perfect mix of damp and dry with strategy always up in the air. Watching Verstappen chase up the field and Leclerc fight for the win kept me interested for 2 hours. If you think 2 hours is long try watching a Nascar race
11:25: But why did Leclerc and Ferrari allow Perez to get that gap when they should have known that 5 seconds were needed by Perez to mitigate the possible penalty? Was Perez somewhat sandbagging for 45 laps and had pace in hand that he didn't need to use earlier because he knew the Ferrari had no chance of passing him or did Leclerc run his tires off running in the wake of Perez for ten laps or so after the safety car period lasted?
Can someone tell me why they held this race on a Sunday, you shouldn’t have a night race on a Sunday and also this race didn’t start til like 9pm and went until 11pm like people have work the next day they need to get home, why is it on a Sunday instead of a Saturday
Why did they wait to start the race until track conditions were right for inters? Why not start the race when the track is still quite wet and send the cars out with full wet tires? Isn't that the point of having them?
My Mrs commented that the Singapore GP was a farce, I had to agree
Is it not allowed to have a standing start on wets?
It think you can but with how much spray the wets have. I’m not surprised that f1 prefers to not to start on them.
What I want to know is when did F1 stop racing in the rain?
Why do they even bother making wet tyres when they don't let them race with them?
If they just gave Perez a 5 second penalty the first time he broke the 10 car length rule everyone would've known where he stood in the race...and I guarantee he wouldn't have done it again. The FIA's hesitancy was the biggest problem in this situation. IMO its a vague rule to begin with that needs revisiting. Would this rule even be noticed if the driver in 10th place broke it? Probably not. Maybe having to maintain a delta like with the VSC could be a possibility.
Is that French for precedure?
Well the waiting wasn't as bad as Canada 2011
I didnt mind the delay because i woke up and could actually catch it
Delay meant 6am start PDT which is a lot more attractive than 5am for us Californians.
There are wet tires for a reason.
This is a welcome break while waiting for FIA's results about the budgetcap investigations.
Which we're not getting until next week now because of the FIA's deep commitment to making itself look as clownish as possible.
@@BiggieTrismegistus Yup.. very disappointing
@@BiggieTrismegistus You gotta cut them some slack. It's a very complicated financial situation with 10 different teams in total spending well over a billion dollars. If an extra week gets them more time to double chekc all their findings, that's better. It's not like releasing it now, or in 2 months, actually changes anything, as the 2021 season is already ended. Might as well make sure it's right.
@@doghat1619 Yes, I'm aware of the complexity and I originally did cut them some slack. The reports were actually supposed to have come out months ago though. Given that they were that far off in their estimation of how long the audits would take, they're the people who apparently grossly underestimated the complexity of what they were doing, not me. If they had been a month off? Fine. *Months* off though? That's some clownish shit right there. Now, despite already being months late, they screwed up their estimation of the release date _again_ thus increasing an already clownish situation even further.
I don't understand why the FIA is involved in this situation at all. The cost cap is a Formula 1 rule not an FIA one. Hell, the FIA as a whole is a completely unnecessary organization for F1 and is probably completely unnecessary for racing in general. There's no reason for it to be involved in anything. Given that it's a completely vestigial part of motorsport, you'd think it would want to make itself as inconspicuous as possible. Instead in their arrogance the FIA does things in a way that's comically bureaucratic and complex but _also_ completely slipshod and half-assed. The FIA needs to get its shit together or just fuck off.
Put a roof above all tracks and we never get delayed starts again. Simple really... o.o
would you pay for it? also... ain't foolproof...
helicopters need to be able to access the track if an ambulance is unable to transport a driver from an incident to a trauma center within 5 minutes so no
The two offences in the one lap… had he not caught up between them it would only have been one offence and a warning.
There is some potential for debate, but that debate didn’t seem to be happening…
The warning was given to the team during the race. If he hadn't caught up that would have triggered the penalty.
The argument about race time you made - while fair - misses the point that since the first time we held this race in 2008, minus the 2 years we lost to COVID, so far out of the 13 times this race has been held, 5 of them exceeded the time limit. That's over a third of all times it has been run.
With that statistic, shouldn't we slim down the lapcount regardless?
ngl the hour delayed game me an extra hour to sleep and I cause of that I could see the whole race without falling sleep lmao
*im American sadly*
Why did Perez get three different 'penalties' (reprimand, warning, and 5 seconds) from exactly the same incident?
He didn't. There were three separate incidents and he only got two penalties. Only one of those penalties (the 5 seconds) was a racing penalty.
@@AdrianJSClark But all three were for being more than 10 car lengths behind the SC?
@@benhamilton685 Yes. Same offence (being more than 10 car lengths behind the SC) but three separate incidents of that offence.
Because is the FIA, come on! These type of decisions shouldnt surprise anyone
Because there are mitigating circumstances.
Wait so unlike motogp f1 didn't have quick start procedure
To play devil’s advocate, the safety car rule can be read as not saying a damn thing about how far the leader needs to be from the safety car. It definitively states that all of the competitors must remain in line no more than 10 car lengths apart, but as is often with the FIA’s crappily-written rules, there’s a huge grey area where they don’t explicitly call out the distance from the safety car to the leader. If someone had a race win taken away from them for this, then there would probably be huge scope for an appeal.
If this is a rule to be kept and enforced, then they should amend the sentence with “AND the competitor at the head of the line must remain no more than 10 car lengths from the safety car.”.
It’s possible the stewards got themselves tied in knots over exactly that. After all, they have different stewards all the time, and someone coming into the role not having had to look at this particular issue might have taken exception to what could be viewed to be an unwritten rule.
bruh whats the point of wet tires if youre just gonna delay it lol
tbh, 10 car length is an ancient way of measuring and stupid, just put a delta on the drivers steering wheel.
Just bring back Masi, he will surely change the rules on the fly to short circuit the 40min procedure, just like how he modified he rules in Abu Dhabi.
I watch almost every race OnDemand because I live in the USA and I can't believe the bickering of everyone over an hour delay. As pointed out in this video it was handled properly with as much warning as possible, go find something else to do for an hour and let it go.
We used to race in the rain. Pathetic.
The Perez incident was hilarious. The amount of times that cars are miles behind the safety car/car ahead is almost infinite. By that precedent nearly everyone should have a 5 second penalty every single safety car.
So... Japan...?
With it's already slow average speed even on dry, Singapoure gotta be 50 (not 61) laps race (joining "short race" club with Monaco that would be 92 not 78 laps race by "main rules"). It would encourage wetter conditions to be "allowed" since they are so worried about race clock. It could allow to reach that magical 75% line even in wet and few SC periods.
Q: Why did the race take so long to start?
A: Money
I can't wait until F1 gets rid of tire warmers and makes it so the tires work in a larger temperature range. The amount of time spent talking about freaking tires in any discussion about Formula One is absurd.