I agree 110%. You are so smart and thoughtful to bring something like this up! I couldn't have said it better than you. I always feel so sad being pushed into the stereotype of being a fangirl, even when I am far from one. I actually feel the need to AVOID UA-cam meetups, conventions, etc. out of the fear of being seen as just another fangirl by someone (a UA-camr) that I genuinely admire and appreciate - not just freakishly obsess over! Hope you post more videos soon! xx
I think there's two types of creators in this situation. 1) The creators who *want* fangirls and encourage this fan behaviour. 2) Those who don't really want to encourage it, but they have difficulty distinguishing between someone who enjoys their content and a "fan." Personally, I hate the idea of someone seeing me as a fan rather than an equal. It's difficult to establish that though at conventions - particularly when you haven't got green room. :P I decided over the weekend to avoid talking to a creator whose work I love, as I didn't want to be seen as a fangirl. It's ridiculously annoying. Also, great video. I may continue add this to the list of videos I want to make, and continue the conversation on my channel. :P
+Jessica Spencer I can completely see where you are coming from here. I would love it if you made a video continuing the conversation, the goal of this is to start a wider discussion. Let me know if you do end up doing it!
I totally agree with all the points you make. I also think a lot of mockery of the term "fangirl" is because society likes to make fun of what young girls enjoy. I could go into more detail, but I don't feel like writing an essay.
im a bit naive and not as articulate speaking as you are :') but i have to say what you spoke about has been something that has been bothering me for a very very long time now. in my detailed playlist live video i didn't really speak about it at all, but i did record crying/screaming girls lined on the street and called them "fangirls". i refered to them as this because in my eyes, i see a fangirl as you described. crying/screaming/etc. for me though, i hate hate hate it when im referred to as a fangirl. i really don't feel that i can relate to the term because i tend to be more 'composed' at these youtube conventions. its just a term that is used to generalize this big group of people because unfortunetly, the majority do act like the verb of fangirl. i just feel so degraded to have content creators look at me as a 'fangirl' when im trying to become a content creator myself. and i literally have never thought about the fact that the other half of youtube is us, the viewers. that really opened my eyes. im not sure how conventions would be able to integrate some type of thing involving the viewers but it's definitely note worthy. thank you for sharing your opinion(s)!!
I know we've talked about this, but here's my thoughts for the sake of bringing the discussion to the comments here. I'm not necessarily offended by the term 'fangirl'. I describe myself as a fangirl at times and say that I 'fangirl' over things. For me, however, it doesn't hold the meaning of someone blindly following their idol(s) and freaking out hysterically. It just means I get very excited over a thing because I like it a lot. It's kind of like being called a nerd. It can be endearing. However, I do think there is a problem in youtube culture when it comes to generalizing a group of people as 'fangirls'. As you said, that takes away our individual identities. Instead of a diverse audience with everyone from 8 year olds to people in their 20's, 30's, and so on, I think a lot of people tend to act as if the only people interested in them or their content are screaming, crying young girls. And you know what? What if a young girl is crying because she's so happy she finally got to meet someone who has meant a lot to her? There's nothing wrong with that. No one belittles teenaged boys for getting emotional on the basketball court and becoming aggressive. In my high school experience, the senior boys who got mad and got kicked out of a game were treated like heroes. Why is it wrong for girls to express emotions for something they care about a lot? I think my issue is more with the generalizing than with the term itself. We need to either reclaim the meaning of that word and start appreciating all of Team Internet for the people they are or stop using it altogether, in my opinion.
+Hayley Harp Yeah, I might say "oh I'm such a fangirl" when I'm on tumblr or laughing with my friends on twitter, but it is never intended to be serious, but more a lighthearted joke amongst friends. The difference comes when I attend a convention and I feel like I have to apologize for being a girl because I'm automatically assumed to be a "fangirl". It's also a guilt issue when I feel I have to apologize on behalf of the girls who are running and screaming, because their actions reflects on me as a female at the convention as well. I really like what you had to say about diverse audiences of people "in their 20's, 30's and so on" because you're right in saying that UA-cam's audience is very diverse, yet we don't see a high number of people in that age rage attending gatherings. Even as a 21 year old, I feel like one of the oldest people at a convention, and it sometimes makes me feel uncomfortable. Do you think that perhaps this culture of "fangirl" that is associated with these gatherings is the reason older fans choose to stay home? I don't know if I can definitively say that is the sole reason, but I think it could definitely be part of the cause.
+Expressive Kim I think that could definitely be part of why there tends to be mainly one demographic represented at conventions. Like +Colin Tonge said, the event organizers cater to the experience they think the most people prefer. So as of right now, that's the demographic the events are designed for. I think if there was more organized emphasis on the panels and making them more professional (and perhaps moderated better in a lot of cases I've seen), then that might attract other audiences who aren't just there for the meet ups? Idk that was just my first thought. I'm sure there's a lot that goes into planning conventions that I haven't taken the time to think about.
I think the reason UA-camrs view 'you' as a fangirl at gatherings is that non-creators at gatherings are predominantly 'fangirls' (I have an issue with this being a gendered term, that's for another day though! :L ) and so much like in life, the majority is catered for. The meetups are designed for a selfie and signature, it means the fangirls who are in the majority are happy but does leave the 'non-fangirl viewers' a tad let down. It is the vocal majority that's pleased so to event organisers all they see is happiness and they view the event as a success, it'll continue as it is for the foreseeable future I'd say :/
+Colin Tonge I agree with you about it being a gendered term, I was going to discuss the sexism involved with the use of it, but I decided that was a topic that deserved more time than I had. I agree that the meetups are designed with this in mind, but I think it still depends on the UA-camr. I have met plenty of UA-camr's who refuse to play into this idea of "fangirling" and their audiences seem to respect that and act accordingly, yet other UA-camr's hype it up and use it as a way to market themselves. I'm not saying there won't always be that small percentage of people who scream and act this way, but I think if the UA-camr's took a little more responsibility for it and actively tried to stay away from assuming that their fans will be "fangirls", it would go a long way toward making it less common.
I see the term 'fangirl' as one of those Slurs That You Own. Example: if someone describes themselves as A Bad Bitch they will probably still be offended if someone calls them a bitch. Other racial slurs come to mind that one calls themselves or would say to a close friend but it's not alright for an outsider to say as an insult. There is also the issue of not allowing teen and pre-teen girls to like something passionately in the way they know how to express it. F it! Let'em be passionate and silly and, admittedly, over the top behavior to an outsider. As long as it's not assumed that those of us who have grown out of that will also behave that way. (That sounded better in my head.)
I think, though, that the bigger issue is the short cuts that the human brain makes. It's faster. It's easier. And it's helped us survive. But it can also cause issues like the ones in your video. All creators see fangirls. Everyone crying is a fangirl. All fans, even the more mature ones, act in a fangirl way. The act of negating that is what we should all strive for. :)
I agree 110%. You are so smart and thoughtful to bring something like this up! I couldn't have said it better than you. I always feel so sad being pushed into the stereotype of being a fangirl, even when I am far from one. I actually feel the need to AVOID UA-cam meetups, conventions, etc. out of the fear of being seen as just another fangirl by someone (a UA-camr) that I genuinely admire and appreciate - not just freakishly obsess over! Hope you post more videos soon! xx
I think there's two types of creators in this situation. 1) The creators who *want* fangirls and encourage this fan behaviour. 2) Those who don't really want to encourage it, but they have difficulty distinguishing between someone who enjoys their content and a "fan." Personally, I hate the idea of someone seeing me as a fan rather than an equal. It's difficult to establish that though at conventions - particularly when you haven't got green room. :P I decided over the weekend to avoid talking to a creator whose work I love, as I didn't want to be seen as a fangirl. It's ridiculously annoying.
Also, great video. I may continue add this to the list of videos I want to make, and continue the conversation on my channel. :P
+Jessica Spencer I can completely see where you are coming from here. I would love it if you made a video continuing the conversation, the goal of this is to start a wider discussion. Let me know if you do end up doing it!
Will do!
I totally agree with all the points you make. I also think a lot of mockery of the term "fangirl" is because society likes to make fun of what young girls enjoy. I could go into more detail, but I don't feel like writing an essay.
im a bit naive and not as articulate speaking as you are :') but i have to say what you spoke about has been something that has been bothering me for a very very long time now. in my detailed playlist live video i didn't really speak about it at all, but i did record crying/screaming girls lined on the street and called them "fangirls". i refered to them as this because in my eyes, i see a fangirl as you described. crying/screaming/etc. for me though, i hate hate hate it when im referred to as a fangirl. i really don't feel that i can relate to the term because i tend to be more 'composed' at these youtube conventions. its just a term that is used to generalize this big group of people because unfortunetly, the majority do act like the verb of fangirl. i just feel so degraded to have content creators look at me as a 'fangirl' when im trying to become a content creator myself. and i literally have never thought about the fact that the other half of youtube is us, the viewers. that really opened my eyes. im not sure how conventions would be able to integrate some type of thing involving the viewers but it's definitely note worthy. thank you for sharing your opinion(s)!!
I agree with this literally 100%
+Lilmizem Thanks, I'm glad many of us are sharing these feelings.
I know we've talked about this, but here's my thoughts for the sake of bringing the discussion to the comments here.
I'm not necessarily offended by the term 'fangirl'. I describe myself as a fangirl at times and say that I 'fangirl' over things. For me, however, it doesn't hold the meaning of someone blindly following their idol(s) and freaking out hysterically. It just means I get very excited over a thing because I like it a lot. It's kind of like being called a nerd. It can be endearing.
However, I do think there is a problem in youtube culture when it comes to generalizing a group of people as 'fangirls'. As you said, that takes away our individual identities. Instead of a diverse audience with everyone from 8 year olds to people in their 20's, 30's, and so on, I think a lot of people tend to act as if the only people interested in them or their content are screaming, crying young girls. And you know what? What if a young girl is crying because she's so happy she finally got to meet someone who has meant a lot to her? There's nothing wrong with that. No one belittles teenaged boys for getting emotional on the basketball court and becoming aggressive. In my high school experience, the senior boys who got mad and got kicked out of a game were treated like heroes. Why is it wrong for girls to express emotions for something they care about a lot?
I think my issue is more with the generalizing than with the term itself. We need to either reclaim the meaning of that word and start appreciating all of Team Internet for the people they are or stop using it altogether, in my opinion.
+Hayley Harp Yeah, I might say "oh I'm such a fangirl" when I'm on tumblr or laughing with my friends on twitter, but it is never intended to be serious, but more a lighthearted joke amongst friends. The difference comes when I attend a convention and I feel like I have to apologize for being a girl because I'm automatically assumed to be a "fangirl". It's also a guilt issue when I feel I have to apologize on behalf of the girls who are running and screaming, because their actions reflects on me as a female at the convention as well.
I really like what you had to say about diverse audiences of people "in their 20's, 30's and so on" because you're right in saying that UA-cam's audience is very diverse, yet we don't see a high number of people in that age rage attending gatherings. Even as a 21 year old, I feel like one of the oldest people at a convention, and it sometimes makes me feel uncomfortable. Do you think that perhaps this culture of "fangirl" that is associated with these gatherings is the reason older fans choose to stay home? I don't know if I can definitively say that is the sole reason, but I think it could definitely be part of the cause.
+Expressive Kim I think that could definitely be part of why there tends to be mainly one demographic represented at conventions. Like +Colin Tonge said, the event organizers cater to the experience they think the most people prefer. So as of right now, that's the demographic the events are designed for. I think if there was more organized emphasis on the panels and making them more professional (and perhaps moderated better in a lot of cases I've seen), then that might attract other audiences who aren't just there for the meet ups? Idk that was just my first thought. I'm sure there's a lot that goes into planning conventions that I haven't taken the time to think about.
I think the reason UA-camrs view 'you' as a fangirl at gatherings is that non-creators at gatherings are predominantly 'fangirls' (I have an issue with this being a gendered term, that's for another day though! :L ) and so much like in life, the majority is catered for. The meetups are designed for a selfie and signature, it means the fangirls who are in the majority are happy but does leave the 'non-fangirl viewers' a tad let down. It is the vocal majority that's pleased so to event organisers all they see is happiness and they view the event as a success, it'll continue as it is for the foreseeable future I'd say :/
+Colin Tonge I agree with you about it being a gendered term, I was going to discuss the sexism involved with the use of it, but I decided that was a topic that deserved more time than I had. I agree that the meetups are designed with this in mind, but I think it still depends on the UA-camr. I have met plenty of UA-camr's who refuse to play into this idea of "fangirling" and their audiences seem to respect that and act accordingly, yet other UA-camr's hype it up and use it as a way to market themselves. I'm not saying there won't always be that small percentage of people who scream and act this way, but I think if the UA-camr's took a little more responsibility for it and actively tried to stay away from assuming that their fans will be "fangirls", it would go a long way toward making it less common.
I see the term 'fangirl' as one of those Slurs That You Own. Example: if someone describes themselves as A Bad Bitch they will probably still be offended if someone calls them a bitch. Other racial slurs come to mind that one calls themselves or would say to a close friend but it's not alright for an outsider to say as an insult.
There is also the issue of not allowing teen and pre-teen girls to like something passionately in the way they know how to express it. F it! Let'em be passionate and silly and, admittedly, over the top behavior to an outsider. As long as it's not assumed that those of us who have grown out of that will also behave that way. (That sounded better in my head.)
I think, though, that the bigger issue is the short cuts that the human brain makes. It's faster. It's easier. And it's helped us survive. But it can also cause issues like the ones in your video. All creators see fangirls. Everyone crying is a fangirl. All fans, even the more mature ones, act in a fangirl way.
The act of negating that is what we should all strive for. :)