Naming a Land Trust - Don't Do This!
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- Опубліковано 11 сер 2020
- In this video, I discuss how to properly name your land trust and how to name the limited liability company. If you are considering establishing a land trust then this video will explain how to set it up and remove any liability from your property.
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Clint Coons, Esq. is one of the founding partners of Anderson Law Group, Clint has grown his legal and tax firm to over 400 employees by assisting real estate investors with creating and implementing solid entity structuring plans. His success in these regards is in large part due to his personal investing experience. A successful attorney, real estate investor, and speaker, Clint has used his innovative and dynamic strategies coupled with knowledge borne from experience to help thousands of people save millions of dollars and build real wealth.
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The information provided in this video should not be construed or relied on as legal advice for any specific fact or circumstance. Its content was prepared by Anderson Business Advisors with its main office at 3225 McLeod Drive Suite 100 Las Vegas, Nevada 89121. This video is designed for entertainment and information purposes only. Viewing this video does not create an attorney-client relationship with Anderson Business Advisors or any of its lawyers. You should not act or rely on any of the information contained herein without seeking professional legal advice.
#landtrust
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Very helpful! Thank you!
Thank you for this. I am so brand new to learning about trusts you made me understand the basics of what the name and beneficiary name should be.
Shonda Yishrael
Thanks for watching.
of all your vids, for some reason, today's vid showed me a error in my personal structure... I have LLC with no protection, because its in my name an no other LLC as protection. I need to fix this. thanks for the vid. great work.
thank you, answered my question🙂
Frog fetish 😆....there goes my ice cream trust names.
Goodbye Neapolitan Trust
Goodbye Rocky-Road Trust
🍦
🗑
Another great video Clint, thank you sir!
great information
Super great thanks again!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Hello, new here to your channel and I have subscribed. Love the vids. Now just wanted to know, why do you specifically recommend a WY LLC in all of the vids? Why not some other state? Thanks!
In WY the LLC members don't need to be on public record. The only one who can see your connection to the LLC are the authorities. In most US states the members are on public record and can be looked up by everyone.
Are WY, NV, and DE good for inside and outside protection with their LLC's? I am thinking about an AP structure where say Me Enterprises LLC (or maybe even Corp), would be the owner of a RE Holding LLC (for real estate related ventures), another RF LLC (for a retailing based franchiser), and other RSx LLCs (other retail/service based ventures). If the Me Enterprise LLC/Corp is the owner of all of these other LLCs (RE, RF, and RSx) also established within WY, NV, DE - would that open the doors for all the LLCs owned by Enterprise LLC to be sued by someone with a claim against Me Enterprises LLC? And, would Me Enterprises LLC still be protected from actions against any of the subsidiary mananger managed LLCs? Would the Me Enterprises LLC be a manager managed llc as well as the subsidiaries (not the bottom tier member managed LLCs)? Would the RE, RF, & RSx LLCs still be manager managed at this point - or go to member managed?
I like your idea on how to set up a trust and L LC . Is there a dvd or something that goes into a little more detail than that.?
Just my UA-cam channel.
“Don’t be the guy with the Frog fetish” 😂😂🤣
Hey Clint, Thanks for the great videos! Let's say I wanted to have a few properties per LLC to reduce the number of total LLCs and bank accounts I have to manage. Would there be any issues with one LLC owning multiple land trusts and just have multiple DBAs to match the land trust names?
You could run it that way but if a lawsuit hits the beneficiary LLC is liable.
What video do you go over the WY LLC? How do you pass that anonymity on to the 1458/MI5 LLC? Great videos
Here is one: ua-cam.com/video/Uud2J8nAG-Y/v-deo.html
Clint! How would you sell real estate held through anonymity structures. When you need to sign as a seller on dotted line for your Wyoming LLC, doesn't that kill the anonymity for other real estate holdings as well?
Yes you sign on behalf of the entity but I am sure there are more than one person with your same name. The buyer would also need to know where you live to get some idea. Second, keep in mind the anonymity keeps the buyer from discovering your other assets.
Thanks Clint! If you have anonymity through your LLC and it's holding company, why do you then also need a trust?
No you do not unless you need it because of transfer taxes.
Can you set up the Land Trust such that the Trustee is your PARENT Series LLC, and the Beneficiary is one of the CELL LLCs in the Series? Great job BTW! :)
I don't see any reason why you couldn't buy my preference is to use use a completely separate LLC for the trustee so as not not jeopardize any anonymity.
Thank you Clint, any issue with using the same WY LLC as trustee and that same WY LLC being the holding company of the local LLC which is the beneficiary of the Land trust? Exactly as you drew it on the end with two blue boxes for WY LLC , can both of those be the same entity?
I have the exact same question - can your Wyoming Holding LLC be used as the "Nominee Trustee" for the land trust which holds your local property/LLC? After all, that would save us from having to create yet another LLC! But in another video, Clint says that a Wyoming LLC that is used as a nominee trustee should NOT be engaged in ANY OTHER BUSINESS. It should be a stand-alone LLC that's ONLY job is to act as a Trustee. He doesn't say WHY this is the case (and I wish he would answer this question) but I thought I'd share that info.
The question I have which has not been answered by any of the videos about trusts is, how do you establish a trust? is there an application that you have to fill out? if so where do you get that application? and do you have to register it somewhere or just keep it in your drawer like a will?
You do not. A trust is a private document that you create by expressing your intention to create a trust via the trust document you sign.
Clint are you saying that we should create an LLC in Wyoming for every Land Trust created? Meaning every property you acquire is assumed under a land trust that reflects back to Wyoming Llc? Can you clarify?
In this video I did suggest that as a strategy.
Do you use the same Wyoming LLC for all of the trusts or do you need to create a new one each time?
Same
I should do this.
3:33 hold the blue box llc can you explain that . I thought that is the asset protection ?
Yes the blue box provides asset protection for your beneficial interest.
Thanks for the great info! 2 questions:
1) So if I had 7 properties, I would need 7 land trusts and 8 LLCs? 1 land trust per property, 1 LLC per property, and a WY owning LLC?
2) Are transfer taxes applied when moving a property out of your name, and into a land trust?
Let me begin with 2 - the answer is typically no. Transfer taxes are not typically imposed when moving property into a land trust. As to 1 - I suggest you set up a strategy session. You may not need to use land trusts with your structure. We can help you determine what would work best for your situation. If you would like a FREE 30-minute consultation, you can request one here
- aba.link/30minSession
Really appreciate the reply! I already requested a free consultation after seeing the "How to collect payments from Land Trust" video out of hope that there is a way to avoid a linear scaling number of bank accounts haha
More videos please
Clint - thank you for your videos. A local attorney is claiming that in FL the statute requires that land trust have words "land trust" in it's name. You're not commending this, so I'm confused about what to do... Thanks in advance!
That is correct.
@@ClintCoons Thank you for confirming!
@@ClintCoons Clint - one more question, you often recommend forming WY LLC to act as a trustee on FL Land trust. Does that WY (trustee) LLC have to register in FL (thus revealing it's members/managers and blowing it's anonymity) or is it not required? Thank you!
Would an asset protection trust accomplish the same thing as a land trust without having to setup a Wyoming LLC?
Yes but an APT is more expensive and involved.
What if it's a FL land trust with a Wyoming LLC as beneficiary. Should those be named the same?
I prefer to set it up that way if I do not have bank account in my land trust.
So then how do you set up a WY LLC as a sole member LLC, sign the initial filing documents on WY SOS website in your name, which has to be signed by a member/manager (which is you) and still have anonymity?
You cant file the organizational documents because the organizer signs the articles not the manager or member. When we set up a WY LLC we sign as the organizer - this protects our client's identity.
Do you need an individual trust for each LLC to maintain anonymity? Or could you have multiple LLCs in a single trust? If you need a trust for every LLC, is there any real benefit to doing this, besides acquisition using debt, if you already have the LLCs in a WY holding LLC?
If you are using land trust you will hold each property in a separate trust and each trust will have a separate LLC. The land trust does not provide asset protection (Florida being the exception) and this is why you use one trust per LLC.
@@ClintCoons Gotcha, thanks!
Who is the BENEFICIARY of the trust?
Who is the TRUSTEE of the trust?
😊 Thank You!
You will be the beneficiary and then you could use an LLC or a nominee as your trustee. I have a few videos on selecting a land trust trustee you might want to check out if you are interested.
Hello, just to clarify a few things.
1. Can I have one WY-LLC as the trustee for multiple land trusts? Based on your videos, seems like the answer is yes because assigning an LLC as a trustee is not for asset protection, but solely so that your name is not on the trust, so that makes it anonymous. Please correct me if I am wrong.
2. I understand that a land trust is a private document, so the question I have is, why do I need to have a WY-LLC as the trustee if no one else is able to see the private document? Wouldn't we already be anonymous since no one else in the world has access to the document other than me?
3. Seems like you are recommending a separate LLC for beneficial interest in the land trust. It seems that this is what provides asset protection? Lets say that in your particular case, We have 1485 TRUST, and the beneficiary is 1485 LLC (for asset protection). Then who would be the beneficiary of 1485 LLC? And also, would my name need to be in this LLC in anyway? If not, how am I in any way linked to this home?
Thank you so much, this is all so confusing but your videos are very good!
So how would you live one place(say Georgia) and DBA in other states such as Wyoming or Delaware? But thanks for this information 👍
You would foreign file your entity in those other states. It is a simple process.
@@ClintCoons - is there any reason to do this for the structure in the video here? I recall hearing you say it’s needed in an LLC-only structure, e.g. a Wyoming LLC would need to foreign file in the state of the property to bring a lawsuit against the tenant if needed. But in this case, isn’t the land trust / trustee the one doing business in the state of the property and therefore able to bring such a lawsuit?
@@robc8096 Yes the land trust would bring the unlawful detainer action. The naming of your entities has to do with cashing checks made out to the trust when you do not have a bank account in the trust name.
got it, thanks for the clarification Clint!
how much do you charge if you do the land trust and Nevada LLC.
It depends on how you would like it structured. Fees could range from $2250 to $3750. If you would like a FREE 30-minute consultation, you can request one here
- aba.link/30minSession
Anderson Law
*Clint* can put several apartment complexs in the same trust????
No keep them separate.
@@ClintCoons thanks for the info.Have an Incredibile day.
I'm kinda confused... So do I set up Wyoming LLC in Wyoming?
Yes
I have LLCs set up and owned by WY LLC. I am in the process of deeding properties to LLCs at present. Is it OK to skip Land Trust?
Yes you can!
@@ClintCoons Won't deeding directly into the LLCs (skipping the Land Trust) cause a taxable event and trigger the Due-On-Sale clause?
@@terrycrawford6740 A taxable event could occur at the county level depending on where the property is located so yes, you need to evaluate every strategy. The "due on sale" is another issue and will depend on the lender. It has never been an issue for our clients and myself but this is not to imply it won't ever happen. A land trust can give peace of mind for many.
@@ClintCoons Then, for us Californians, we should use land trusts to keep our low assessed values, correct?
@@terrycrawford6740 It does not matter in most instances. PROP 13 has exceptions for both land trusts and LLCs. Just m, make sure you consult with a professional before making a property transfer.
What do you mean by beneficial interest?
This is what represents you ownership interest in the trust.
Real Estate Asset Protection Thanks
Ok, can you help me understand, why would you set up an LLC to hold a Trust?
To provide asset protection. The land trust does not protect you from liability. If a tenant is injured and sues the trust and you are the beneficiary, you will be liable for any judgements against the trust. The LLC protect you.
Real Estate Asset Protection Got it. Thanks
@@ClintCoons So maybe I finally understand, maybe. I create/organize ONE WY Trust LLC that is designed for the sole purpose of being the trustee for ALL my property specific LLC that are deed holders and beneficiaries of each associated property land trusts. I start a 2nd WY HOLDING, LLC to be my HOLDING company. It owns/organizes an individual LLC for each property that I buy... named with the same name as the property land trust that I buy.... (123 trust with 123 LLC as the beneficiary and the warrantee deed is in the 123 LLC) Each property specific LLCs is the beneficiary of associated land trust and the WY trustee LLC is the trustee for all of the land trusts. The WY Holding LLC which owns all the LLC is providing the anonymity. The anonymity only comes when someone other than yourself files the articles of organization AND is the register agent for both WY Holding LLC and the WY Trust LLC.
Now, I found a property to buy. I hire a company (do not write the trust your self) who writes, organizes my land trust so I can buy the property in the trusts name, 123 trust. I tell them that my WY trustee, LLC is the trustee and that the 123 LLC is the beneficiary. So I need to have at least both WY LLCs established before I can buy property. Then when I find a property to buy I need to hurry up and get a land trust created before closing. Also, file for an 123 LLC and have state approve or recognize it for that property before I close in 7 days or 14 days. And if I need to sue someone, evict, or they sue me, the only entities that are involved are the 123 trust and its associated 123 LLC and me because I am the manager of the 123 LLC. Now supposedly, they can't sue me personally unless I was neglectful as the manager because I did not clear off the ice from the sidewalk to the property. So to avoid being the manager of the LLC, who do I name. Because the state requires that we annually update or confirm the manager, registered agent, mailing, physical address for all our LLCs. ( physical which has to be in FL unless maybe???it is registered as a foreign agent)). Who should be the manager, VP, point of contact and should we use the address for the WY Holding LLC then have our mail forwarded to us. Anyone out there have some guidance on these details would be greatly appreciated for us who are just starting and trying to get the business set up correctly the FIRST time. A little overwhelmed as I'm sure you remember from your start up days. Us newbie REALLY appreciate your wisdom and step by step process. Brush stroke education is good but the devil is in the details. And that is where we often get hung up.. One more question . Do all these LLCs need to have an EIN with IRS?
If a grantor has died and left a property in the trust. Can the beneficiary (who is also executor) set up a WY LLC then a state LLC and, in turn, deed the property into that state LLC and keep things anonymous still while not triggering any taxable event?
Or is there a better approach to meet both goals?
Yes you can however, wether or not a state or county imposes a real estate transfer fee will depend on the location. Most do not in the example you describe.
@@ClintCoons thank you so much!
You are welcome
So the WY company is Mgr Managed?
yes
And if the WY LLC has several sub companies with one for real estate, use the RE LLC or holding LLC? What if multiple trusts?
@@sancop This would be a stand-alone LLC with no other activity
Folks can search parts of the address to find your trust easily. Naming a trust should be more strategic
What about a Delaware LLC?
DE is great. I have no problem using DE.
I have seen another lawyer on UA-cam say that making any effort to maintain anonymity for your business, LLCs in particular, is a bad ideas as it seams to make courts look at you at though you are trying to commit some kind of fraud. I have read other sources saying similar. But, I have also read other asset protection writers and yourself that promote the opposite, can you please speak to any concerns of this nature? I want to maintain anonymity. I have some things I want to do that the states themselves - or at least county agencies are not a fan of, as well as some other ventures that might inspire wackos on the political realm and I just don't want any of these people trying to come after me or my family - but I don't want the IRS or courts wanting to throw me under the bus either.
Andrew Meador I have seen the same and wondered.
I would say it depends on how you structure your AP. In my example using a WY LLC isnt overtly hiding your information. WY does not collect any info on the members or managers so even if you wanted your information to be public you couldn't do it. Now if this was an issue for the courts then I would assume the courts do not recognize Delaware, New Mexico, or Wyoming LLCs in any legal context because none of these states collect info on the members or managers. Second, if you do not use a WY LLC as your trustee then I recommend using an attorney. Again, attorneys perform this role all the time for their clients so I seriously doubt a court would think you are trying to commit fraud because by implication it would mean the attorney is a partner to your fraud. I would agree that in some situations where people use "assumed names" or friends to serve in their place it could look suspicious.
@@ClintCoons Yeah, I think what you're saying makes sense - it's just these other people seem to think that literally just using AP structures like this invites legal trouble. One attorney specifically mentions using other state LLCs owning in state LLCs to try to remain anonymous is asking for this kind of negative trouble.
But, as you said, WY (and I think NV and DE) don't even ask for information on the members - so it seems of to me that this would not throw red flags. Maybe within the state where the assets are? Maybe the courts there don't like seeing anonymity pro out of state LLCs being the owners of in state LLCs that do require member information - and assume that this is for secretive/fraudulent purposes.
Related to this, do some states require the members and managers to be listed when they are owned by an out of state LLC? I think I had seen where you said that you could have someone (like an attorney) do the initial filing for the manager managed LLC, then resign, turning over the management to an undisclosed manager. But wouldn't the state where this is registered still ask on the annual filings for the current members/managers? What about the states where the assets are located with the member managed LLCs, don't the still ask for the current members/managers of the parent company to still be submitted? If this is not provided, or updated appropriately, is this where concerns about the courts looking at the entities at hand being fraudulent be coming from?
@@ClintCoons I'm look at WY SOS right now and it lists initial filing documents for LLC's and those documents are required to be signed by a member/manager. More often than not small LLC's aren't hiring a non member to be a manager. Doesn't this ruin the anonymity strategy for WY?
@@jotaylor9469 They are signed by the organizer. Your thinking is correct though, it is difficult to have anonymity if you want to set it up on your own because you will end up being the person who signs this document.
Can I use my Property Management LLC (no assets) as a Trustee for all of my Land Trusts?
You could but it may defeat the anonymity you are trying to create because you will be associated to the management LLC.
@@ClintCoons Thank you. So, I should form a WY LLC for the sole purpose of being trustee on each of the Trusts. They only need a res agent and a yearly filing. Should I form that as husband and wife, or single member?
@@thaddeuscorea Yes we typically set up a WY LLC as the trustee. The LLC is manager-managed with the sole purpose of serving as the trustee. I prefer a single member so it does not have to file a tax return.
@@ClintCoons If I take title to the property directly to my revocable trust (with a WY LLC trustee), I have perfect anonymity, but no charging order protection, correct? But if I assign all beneficial interest of that trust to an LLC, I have charging order protection, but now my name (as member manager) is searchable? and thank you for your replies.
Hi Clint, Thank you for the great tips. The WY LLC is what you referred to as the statutory agent correct? and how can we keep our name off of the WY LLC when file so that it doesn't trace back to us. Thank you.
The WY LLC would be your land trust trustee. You keep your name off the entity by not filing it yourself. When you set up the entity on your own you will have to sign the documents as the organizer and this will blow your anonymity.
@@ClintCoons Thank you for your prompt response to my inquiry. I watched another video from you "How to Avoid Exposing Your LLC to Creditors (Anonymity Planning)" and you answered that precisely. Thank you, again for all your help. Look like I'll be making an appointment with your office soon.
@@vanessaquach540 Thanks for watching.
If someone has four different rental properties inside four separate land trusts, is there a harm to using the same Wyoming LLC as trustee on all four? Each would have a separate LLC that matches the names of the land trusts to be the beneficiaries, but all four would use a common Wyoming LLC as trustee to avoid setting up and maintaining more entities than necessary. Is there any anonymity danger to this?
I don't believe so and this is what many investors do when setting up land trusts.
@@ClintCoons In the case above with 4 properties, how would you advise naming the Wyoming LLC who manages the beneficiaries LLC (not Wyoming LLC trustee)? Does the name need to somehow relate to the land trust and beneficiary LLC as you mentioned above? To my understanding the name doent have to be the same, right?
@@Worship503 Correct I would not tie it to any particular entity.
HEY so this is the same setup I am starting. For my bank accounts, do I make one for each of the 4 LLCs that match the names of the land trusts. SO when I collect rent from each one of the properties in the 4 land trusts, each would need a bank account of course so it is ok to make 4 bank accounts then always transfer the money directly to my self or transfer first to the main LLC then myself?
Who are the parties who will need to sign the land trust?
Trustee and Beneficiary
How come the owner is not involved?
@@terrycrawford6740 I can hire a company who writes or draws up a land trust in the name of the property, 123 trust. The land trust states that my LLC (123 LLC) that I started or created for that property is the trustee of the 123 trust. That 123 LLC is owned by my WY LLC which is my HOLDING company. So why do I need a separate WY LLC to be the trustee for the properties as stated somewhere else in this or other videos?
Why do you 'Not' use the word Land in naming the trust?
The use of the word land will create confusion with institutions not familiar with this type of trust.
So what's the point of initially assigning the beneficial interest to yourself then assigning it to an LLC after the fact? Why jot just assign the beneficial interest to an LLC right off the bat?
It depends on wether you own the property you are moving into the land trust. If so, then to avoid possible transfer taxes its best to set up the land trust with yourself as the initial beneficiary.
Haha fetish that's funny!
Can you set the trust for me?
Yes
Real Estate Asset Protection
Ok please send me your contact information. And I will call you and get started.
“With a frog fetish” 😅
Frogs make for an interesting niche! Who knew?
Leave us with frog fetishes alone 😂 if i wanted to name my land trust after my real estate company, would i have to differentiate the two, or can i just add & Trust to the end?
just add trust to the end of the name (without the LLC of course)
.
This is comedy, right?
I have a question. If my wife and I divorced and I gave her all my properties in the divorce and we got a quitclaim to at least change the ownership on the public taxing entities..... Would a medical creditor be able to go after those properties?
Naturally she would then set up a trust and LLC like you just taught.
Most likely not.
He doesn't know how it was structured. In order for him to answer that correctly, he has to see the paperwork.
Anderson Law