I agree with you that despite the fixed leveling order and the big clear number under the health bar, Jamie is much closer to a character like Susano'o from blazblue, where the main mechanical challenge is less about finding opportunities to level up at all (unlike many levelup characters, you can theoretically get some without even winning neutral, as long as your opponent isn't currently pressuring you RIGHT NOW), it's about managing the breadth of specifically NARROW options available to the player. He has a wider range of tools that are each laser focused on particular situations, and as you say, that allows him to be unpredictable and devastating when he's right. But each choice of an option has a steeper opportunity cost than it would for other characters, because of how sharp their strengths and weaknesses are, AND you not only have to measure that cost-benefit balance the way other characters do, you ALSO have to do it across a simply LARGER pool of choices that ISN'T EVEN CONSISTENTLY THE SAME SIZE. No wonder, if you can't get into the flow, it can be a recipe for a feeling of disconnect and overwhelm - working memory overload. You're having to manage a larger (and situation-dependent) mental stack of your OWN options before even paying attention to the opponent! (although, I hate the term mental stack, working memory is an already-existing specific scientific term that means the same thing AND is more intuitive as a phrase). Also, I really appreciate the visible effort in scripting and visual aids/edits to make this video approachable for non fighting game players. Because it's a more nuanced discussion of what amounts to 'ludonarrative' in this genre, and it's a really compelling set of ideas, but a lot of them are hard to even SEE without foundational context on the way fighting games work. So it really is nice that you laid out that context while explaining at the same time how it SPECIFICALLY plays into the ideas you're talking about, rather than taking a digression to teach a fighting game concept in a vacuum. It's made this a much easier recommend for me, to friends who like game design analysis but have no fighting game experience.
Ooo, Susano'o is actually a great comparison. Funny how that character doesn't often cross my mind. And thanks! Thanks in general, but also, thanks for reminding me that the word 'ludonarrative' exists. That's gonna make this way easier to talk about in the future, hah
it's actually staggering how closely this video matches with my experience with Jamie, the good and bad session part really resonated. keep the good work up
I admit as a gief main. I respect the hell out of jamie players. Its difficult to balance that many moves an options and on top of that keeping track of when to drink and when not to. The mental stack is astounding.
This wealth of options for a single character is also very egregious in another character, Lei Wulong of Tekken. Even for a game like tekken where moves average to about one hundred, Lei is given a movelist of about 200 moves.
My favourite genre of video, one made from passion. As someone whos vaguely aware of Jamie street fighter this was really cool to know he had all these new moves and exactly how they fit into gameplay scenarios. The editing was amazing on this one!
one of the crazy things about jamie is also the amount of specials he can route into at any given time and by proxy amount of options he has to approach and continue his offense, for instance i see u doing dp a lot after od divekick, but after od divekick few other things to take note of -if you do no followup you get a safejump -you also get l bakkai (safejump or two dashes) -l palm (max damage before bakkai & go into shs at lvl 4) -rekkas (gotta delay at dl0-3 but, you get p rekka dr oki) - different dps and by extension different oki from those (safejump, dashes, dr oki) -sweep and its followups and the oki you get from those (safejumps, drink meaty) Your mental stack gets bigger the more drinks you get but this applies to the opp too, not to mention the option to give up oki for more drink is a constant choice jamie can make
Glad you found this interesting :D I enjoy this type of look at fighting game characters more than I previously realised, but I hate making promises, so we'll see what the future holds lol
i knew i wanted to main jamie before i bought the game. its a grind, but im so happy with his overall design and i can only hope he gets more fun and interesting tools going forward
Jaime bad sessions are like that, but if you have adhd, it's ok. Unpredictable because i don't even know im just going BABABABABABBABABABABABABBABABABAH
but in all seriousness, using the time it takes to get to drink four often gives you the data needed in what their plan is. And it of course gives you many options to deal with that. And then you can outlast them by super 2 in 4 drinks to get a reset but also like 2 more drive rushes than them, or out of burnout faster than them. And by that time you have another super. Foregoing the straight damage afforded by super 3 combos is unoptimal but the sudden switch up and tempo rush can take the final match. He's nuts even if this doesn't translate to top tier.
So as a note to any prospective new players. You see this video, you think it's cool - Which it is!~ It's worth noting soooome of this is Jamie propaganda lol. All of this is GOOD, and largely accurate. However! It's presented in a context divorced from the rest of the cast, and the game's mechanics and systems as a whole. If this video makes you wanna really get into fighting games - Wnat to try sf6. DO THAT. But just be aware, you're gonna have some other stuff to pick up on. Regardless, this video's a -fun- little love letter, I fucking love it.
? All SF6 characters have more than 30 moves. 18 normals, a few command normals, at least 4 specials (not even including strengths and OD/Ex), throws and at least 3 supers
THEY CALL HIM THE WHAT
A BEVERAGE OF SORTS ⁉
“They call me the Drink”
THIS 🥷'S LIQUIDITY?????
Yun and Yang are the Cups. Because they are my mentors.
I agree with you that despite the fixed leveling order and the big clear number under the health bar, Jamie is much closer to a character like Susano'o from blazblue, where the main mechanical challenge is less about finding opportunities to level up at all (unlike many levelup characters, you can theoretically get some without even winning neutral, as long as your opponent isn't currently pressuring you RIGHT NOW), it's about managing the breadth of specifically NARROW options available to the player. He has a wider range of tools that are each laser focused on particular situations, and as you say, that allows him to be unpredictable and devastating when he's right. But each choice of an option has a steeper opportunity cost than it would for other characters, because of how sharp their strengths and weaknesses are, AND you not only have to measure that cost-benefit balance the way other characters do, you ALSO have to do it across a simply LARGER pool of choices that ISN'T EVEN CONSISTENTLY THE SAME SIZE. No wonder, if you can't get into the flow, it can be a recipe for a feeling of disconnect and overwhelm - working memory overload. You're having to manage a larger (and situation-dependent) mental stack of your OWN options before even paying attention to the opponent! (although, I hate the term mental stack, working memory is an already-existing specific scientific term that means the same thing AND is more intuitive as a phrase).
Also, I really appreciate the visible effort in scripting and visual aids/edits to make this video approachable for non fighting game players. Because it's a more nuanced discussion of what amounts to 'ludonarrative' in this genre, and it's a really compelling set of ideas, but a lot of them are hard to even SEE without foundational context on the way fighting games work. So it really is nice that you laid out that context while explaining at the same time how it SPECIFICALLY plays into the ideas you're talking about, rather than taking a digression to teach a fighting game concept in a vacuum. It's made this a much easier recommend for me, to friends who like game design analysis but have no fighting game experience.
well said
Ooo, Susano'o is actually a great comparison. Funny how that character doesn't often cross my mind.
And thanks! Thanks in general, but also, thanks for reminding me that the word 'ludonarrative' exists. That's gonna make this way easier to talk about in the future, hah
I feel so dumb not realising it was one special and one normal each level.
it's actually staggering how closely this video matches with my experience with Jamie, the good and bad session part really resonated. keep the good work up
I admit as a gief main. I respect the hell out of jamie players. Its difficult to balance that many moves an options and on top of that keeping track of when to drink and when not to. The mental stack is astounding.
This wealth of options for a single character is also very egregious in another character, Lei Wulong of Tekken. Even for a game like tekken where moves average to about one hundred, Lei is given a movelist of about 200 moves.
The (herbal) drinker.
Perfect parry into drink is pretty cool.
MARTIAL CLUB MENTIONED RAHHHH!!!! 🗣️🗣️🗣️
My favourite genre of video, one made from passion. As someone whos vaguely aware of Jamie street fighter this was really cool to know he had all these new moves and exactly how they fit into gameplay scenarios. The editing was amazing on this one!
one of the crazy things about jamie is also the amount of specials he can route into at any given time and by proxy amount of options he has to approach and continue his offense, for instance i see u doing dp a lot after od divekick, but after od divekick few other things to take note of
-if you do no followup you get a safejump
-you also get l bakkai (safejump or two dashes)
-l palm (max damage before bakkai & go into shs at lvl 4)
-rekkas (gotta delay at dl0-3 but, you get p rekka dr oki)
- different dps and by extension different oki from those (safejump, dashes, dr oki)
-sweep and its followups and the oki you get from those (safejumps, drink meaty)
Your mental stack gets bigger the more drinks you get but this applies to the opp too, not to mention the option to give up oki for more drink is a constant choice jamie can make
Mum I’m UA-cam famous! This honestly made me feel a bit more positively about Jamie even though I’m dooming about him most of the time.
Very nice stuff. I find these sort of character breakdowns, and how they translate to be very interesting. Will be curious to see more 🙂
Glad you found this interesting :D
I enjoy this type of look at fighting game characters more than I previously realised, but I hate making promises, so we'll see what the future holds lol
This video kicks ass
I love this video, Jamie is so fun
2:30 !!!!!!!!!!! thank you for showing that!!! thats so cool :D
i knew i wanted to main jamie before i bought the game. its a grind, but im so happy with his overall design and i can only hope he gets more fun and interesting tools going forward
You forgot to mention that the overhead gains a massive range increase after hitting 2 drinks.
Jamie is a very sharp character
Cool vid!
7:55 RISING TACKLE!!
😂
Jaime bad sessions are like that, but if you have adhd, it's ok. Unpredictable because i don't even know im just going BABABABABABBABABABABABABBABABABAH
but in all seriousness, using the time it takes to get to drink four often gives you the data needed in what their plan is. And it of course gives you many options to deal with that. And then you can outlast them by super 2 in 4 drinks to get a reset but also like 2 more drive rushes than them, or out of burnout faster than them. And by that time you have another super. Foregoing the straight damage afforded by super 3 combos is unoptimal but the sudden switch up and tempo rush can take the final match. He's nuts even if this doesn't translate to top tier.
I think characterization through gameplay is super important and interesting. I have many examples.
7:56 rising tackle
Holy mother of skill issue. The end of this video is the biggest git gud moment I've ever heard of in my life.
As a Lucilius main I know the struggle
Please please please release merch 😊❤
So as a note to any prospective new players. You see this video, you think it's cool - Which it is!~
It's worth noting soooome of this is Jamie propaganda lol. All of this is GOOD, and largely accurate. However! It's presented in a context divorced from the rest of the cast, and the game's mechanics and systems as a whole. If this video makes you wanna really get into fighting games - Wnat to try sf6. DO THAT. But just be aware, you're gonna have some other stuff to pick up on.
Regardless, this video's a -fun- little love letter, I fucking love it.
i guess i´m the drinkler
🍻🚰🫗
2d fg players when they have to remember more than 30 moves
? All SF6 characters have more than 30 moves. 18 normals, a few command normals, at least 4 specials (not even including strengths and OD/Ex), throws and at least 3 supers
@@evilded2 thats not much more than thirty. try one hundred
I like how you assume no one here plays tekken. You're not special bruv, get over yourself.
1 like in 0.00000000000000001 bro fell off hard
Great video! I love Jamie he’s now my favorite streets fighter character since game release
Cool vid!