10 MISTAKES to AVOID when CREATING your BUILD in NBA 2K24...

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  • Опубліковано 21 чер 2024
  • For Badge info and Jumpshot Data:
    www.nba2klab.com/badge-unlock...
    10 Mistakes to avoid wasting VC on a bad first build in NBA 2K24. Everything from attributes, to badges, to playstyles and game modes, we address everything to avoid when creating your MyPlayer Build in NBA 2K24. With these tips you can create the best build in NBA 2K24 to fit your playstyle and make NBA 2K24 more enjoyable for the year!
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 612

  • @tiyyre
    @tiyyre 9 місяців тому +751

    We gotta give joe his flowers for the work hes put in for us all these years

    • @ninobrown6983
      @ninobrown6983 9 місяців тому +44

      We HAVE , WE WATCHED N he gets Paid per views meanwhile He should give us free vc for subscription cause 2k changing

    • @Beamin439
      @Beamin439 9 місяців тому

      With these click bait ass builds??

    • @billwilliamson3764
      @billwilliamson3764 9 місяців тому +13

      Chances are he gets them when you view his videos and subscribe lol

    • @Zoneread24
      @Zoneread24 9 місяців тому +3

      @@ninobrown6983no bull shxt 😂😂😂

    • @Josh-xj9wp
      @Josh-xj9wp 9 місяців тому

      @@ninobrown6983💀

  • @RudyPMagic
    @RudyPMagic 9 місяців тому +96

    Joe living up to his name on this one 🔥💯

    • @Gamingwithdes23
      @Gamingwithdes23 9 місяців тому +3

      Ayyeee I love your power vids. What system do you play on

    • @willdebeast3172
      @willdebeast3172 9 місяців тому +10

      Bro is rubbing the tip

    • @drayz9655
      @drayz9655 9 місяців тому

      ​@@willdebeast3172😂😂😂

    • @Drea-nb2xw
      @Drea-nb2xw 9 місяців тому +2

      @@willdebeast3172He better zip his pants up when he’s done 😂😂

    • @brandoningram6526
      @brandoningram6526 9 місяців тому +4

      @@willdebeast3172how it’s just a joke cus his name is joe KNOWS, u can’t say ts for someone making a joke surely

  • @FutureDerangeD
    @FutureDerangeD 9 місяців тому +46

    Joe never steers people wrong i love joes input and honesty on 2k he keeps it real without having to dog 2k W MANS!!!!!

  • @taj3618
    @taj3618 9 місяців тому +99

    Joe the only one putting out useful information. Not just trash iso build videos like everyone else

    • @KuyaGDee
      @KuyaGDee 9 місяців тому +10

      Facts

    • @Edward98380
      @Edward98380 9 місяців тому +1

      nah fr.

    • @coltonhopkins4486
      @coltonhopkins4486 9 місяців тому +6

      Badgeplug has been putting out some solid info though

    • @isaiah5682
      @isaiah5682 9 місяців тому +1

      No cap and it’s been like that since 20

    • @SupremeGon
      @SupremeGon 9 місяців тому +9

      Cap. Its a few putting out good info. Just say you like Joe and keep it pushing lol.

  • @SldOnEmWithDa45
    @SldOnEmWithDa45 9 місяців тому +14

    I’m done with these “do it all builds” bc what usually ends up happening is I end up with a mid ass build that’s good-decent at everything, but excels at NOTHING! This year I’m going straight 3&D with HOF-Gold badges on both sides of the ball. I’m not a primary or secondary ball handler so don’t care about playmaking (just pass accuracy) and I’m gonna get enough slashing to complete lobs and finish when I cut to the basket. I like to guard 2-5 so I want some height/weight, but I play with a PG & a SG/SF so I need to be athletic enough to keep up with their tempo and get into position for a potential rebound.

  • @raiderjedi4160
    @raiderjedi4160 9 місяців тому +45

    Pro tip
    Make your build to your literal consistent play style
    Don’t chase animations or things that you rarely use

    • @goatbebryant4915
      @goatbebryant4915 9 місяців тому +4

      Pro tip?😂

    • @raiderjedi4160
      @raiderjedi4160 9 місяців тому +5

      @@goatbebryant4915
      Apparently people need to be told not to spend money on shit that they don’t use 😂

    • @2ktwoways
      @2ktwoways 9 місяців тому +3

      i wanna make a 6'8 SF 2 Way

    • @ImTheGibby
      @ImTheGibby 9 місяців тому +5

      Me with my 6’11” Two Way Playmaking PF every year that can do it all

  • @radouk6233
    @radouk6233 9 місяців тому +9

    The low risk build advice is actually great, might just do it

  • @floridamanTOP2K
    @floridamanTOP2K 9 місяців тому +253

    3 days away y’all, take y’all time making your builds to how you like them. Really hoping everybody has a dope 2K24🙏🏿

    • @joshlara1006
      @joshlara1006 9 місяців тому +10

      I’m gonna take my time this time every 2k I make a build that sucks that I thought was good and then I get mad after I spent vc. I wanna grind rep right away but I don’t wanna mess up my build. But not that I think about it build is more important at the start.

    • @floridamanTOP2K
      @floridamanTOP2K 9 місяців тому +8

      @@joshlara1006 fa sho, make sure you’re satisfied before spending that vc lol prices high out chea🤣

    • @joshlara1006
      @joshlara1006 9 місяців тому +1

      @@floridamanTOP2K I still don’t know what I wanna make though like I have so many different options but idk what’s right for me I always wanna make a lockdown but I ain’t gonna lie no matter what my defense is ahhh😭 I think I have a build that I can dribble shoot and contact dunk but looking at how it’s only silver badges and stuff I don’t think that would be good so I’m thinking I might go just shooting and dribbling

    • @floridamanTOP2K
      @floridamanTOP2K 9 місяців тому +2

      @@joshlara1006 whatever you feel your strengths are in the game I suggest you lean heavy into those

    • @joshlara1006
      @joshlara1006 9 місяців тому +1

      @@floridamanTOP2K Igh

  • @Kentarius
    @Kentarius 9 місяців тому +52

    MAKE WHAT FITS YOUR PLAYSTYLE AND STOP LISTENING TO THESE UA-camRS TALKING ABOUT WHATS META

    • @UncleYakuza
      @UncleYakuza 9 місяців тому +6

      That’s literally what joe said man

    • @Kentarius
      @Kentarius 9 місяців тому +1

      @@UncleYakuza duh😂😂

    • @LetSeanCook
      @LetSeanCook 9 місяців тому

      I’m going to try to this year

  • @ptt8571
    @ptt8571 9 місяців тому +3

    Much love from NZ. Key for me is what the shooting is going to be like and this is pretty tough to test without making a build and spending some VC on it to get a decent jumpshot out of the creator. I'm hearing rumors that the low 3 ball jumpers are not good and for me that's the big variable in the builder. Tailor physicals to higher or lower 3.

  • @almmeek716
    @almmeek716 9 місяців тому +1

    Great vid right before release ! Appreciate your insight bro

  • @nofreehooks
    @nofreehooks 9 місяців тому +2

    A few of those NBA Player template builds look actually crazy! The PG and Kyrie ones especially from what I could see.

  • @narcotiquedesigns9227
    @narcotiquedesigns9227 9 місяців тому

    The only content creator gamer i trust for 2K . Watching you dominate pro am last year was so inspirational.. you the goat joe

  • @awesomecarlos
    @awesomecarlos 9 місяців тому

    I really appreciate these video joe you goated fr ! ❤️

  • @423chase
    @423chase 9 місяців тому

    Haven’t played since early 21, needed this! Good work joe

  • @gkzxsniper239
    @gkzxsniper239 9 місяців тому +14

    TIP 6 is the best tip by far play to your own strengths

  • @lajarenwilliams5665
    @lajarenwilliams5665 9 місяців тому

    Been watching a few years now, respect to your growth bro… 1 million subs is crazy

  • @heathlyons2751
    @heathlyons2751 9 місяців тому +14

    Thanks Joe, some really awesome tips here.. ive played 2k for over 10 years and had no idea about the speed vs. acceleration attribute!
    being mainly a stretch builder this will come in handy not to waste points in acceleration.

    • @utbpooh4812
      @utbpooh4812 9 місяців тому +1

      Speed is how fast you move in general
      Acceleration is how fast yhu reach your max speed or how fast yhu speed up ( speed boost) ✅

    • @Yodiiii
      @Yodiiii 9 місяців тому

      did u even watch the video? @@utbpooh4812

    • @Spalaying
      @Spalaying 9 місяців тому +1

      Acceleration on 2k is how fast u move with the ball

    • @chiefhere1968
      @chiefhere1968 9 місяців тому

      @@Spalaying not move with the ball, only launch with it. Speed attribute takes over after that

    • @ForeverOHERO
      @ForeverOHERO 9 місяців тому

      How lol

  • @jayjohnson3335
    @jayjohnson3335 9 місяців тому

    Becoming a huge fan of you Joe 🤙🏾💯🔥

  • @thoritissimgarage1482
    @thoritissimgarage1482 9 місяців тому

    Thank you for this video. I learned a lot.

  • @jking23258
    @jking23258 9 місяців тому

    Thanks for the information Joe

  • @StevenTheGreat_
    @StevenTheGreat_ 9 місяців тому +253

    Did anyone ask the devs why there is no longer a Prelude of some sort? Players no longer get the opportunity to test builds prior to the games release. Which will have us all spending countless time in the builder when the game actually releases.

    • @alexandermeiering5216
      @alexandermeiering5216 9 місяців тому +148

      💵💵💵

    • @StevenTheGreat_
      @StevenTheGreat_ 9 місяців тому +15

      @@alexandermeiering5216 and that’s bullshit that’s blatantly sayin they don’t care for how we feel or the time we spend on the game

    • @fuzzo2734
      @fuzzo2734 9 місяців тому

      @@StevenTheGreat_yes

    • @alexandermeiering5216
      @alexandermeiering5216 9 місяців тому

      @@StevenTheGreat_ thats right they dont care

    • @alexandermeiering5216
      @alexandermeiering5216 9 місяців тому +37

      @@StevenTheGreat_ I mean yeah some of the developers actually care probably but they are also not the same people who decide if their is a prelude or not

  • @jameslangdon5591
    @jameslangdon5591 9 місяців тому

    Thx for great info as always

  • @fraturro130
    @fraturro130 9 місяців тому +1

    From your experience at community day, shooting is harder easier or the same of 2k23? will 77 be enough to swish from corner?

  • @anlomoe1968
    @anlomoe1968 9 місяців тому

    Great Video Joe Knows 🔥

  • @kanezaleski3852
    @kanezaleski3852 9 місяців тому +4

    I love tall iso builds like your kd build but not sure if the low wingspan will be good due to the 80 rebound so i might drop the height by one so i keep the good ball handle and shooting or just keep the 6’10 and 6’12 wingspan bc im good at getting boards plus it’s a super fun build which is fun and fits my exact play style

    • @lilbuss
      @lilbuss 8 місяців тому

      Did u say 6’12 ? U mean 7 ft 😅

  • @jaybruce1146
    @jaybruce1146 9 місяців тому

    Im from the UK. Played NBA on and off since 2K12
    But theres a few things ive never really looked into like the controller settings, thanks for making these videos 💪

  • @DIFTHEGIFT
    @DIFTHEGIFT 9 місяців тому

    First thanks for this video and my question is …….would you put acceleration on a center?

  • @YYY000.1
    @YYY000.1 9 місяців тому

    @DatBoi_YT Thanks for consistently dropping w vids. Do you think a Carmelo build would work well if I play 1's and 2's.

  • @Tomtainius
    @Tomtainius 9 місяців тому +1

    4:15 Bro I’ve been playing 2k for so long how am I just hearing this about acceleration. Genuinely just blew my mind

  • @commonsenselab3360
    @commonsenselab3360 9 місяців тому

    New to the channel and Twitter.. I just want to say THANK YOU

  • @dallasmattock3062
    @dallasmattock3062 9 місяців тому

    W video Joe! Keep em coming

  • @austinjones9134
    @austinjones9134 9 місяців тому +1

    So question issue I’m having with any build I do so far is purely movement I’ve made 7 players now and none have been smooth with dribbling or movement especially on defense. Any advice for that?

  • @Thats_what_she_said__89
    @Thats_what_she_said__89 9 місяців тому

    Appreciate the tips joe

  • @javionblade21
    @javionblade21 9 місяців тому +1

    Great video. Just wanna add I just found out wingspan doesn’t effect what badges u can get in the 24

  • @Lnksy
    @Lnksy 9 місяців тому

    Banger vid! 🔥

  • @GV_Stevee
    @GV_Stevee 9 місяців тому

    Not even done watching the vid but this is a W to everyone who’s watching. Thanks Joe

  • @davidbetancourt1024
    @davidbetancourt1024 9 місяців тому

    Very good information 👌 thanks

  • @Goodvibezhoops
    @Goodvibezhoops 9 місяців тому

    Yesssir Joe! Definitely sending this one to the gc 😂

  • @KhaleelWard
    @KhaleelWard 9 місяців тому

    I'm not even a 2k fan but I enjoy the way you talk about the game. Very good advice

  • @xwdbxsqaudxx3517
    @xwdbxsqaudxx3517 9 місяців тому

    From this imma start my center build thanks bro

  • @jonathanberrien716
    @jonathanberrien716 9 місяців тому +1

    No cap I got so good at making builds this year the homies started calling me John knows and I started making builds for them and other people but its all from watching you since 2k19 my guy

  • @leehunchoo
    @leehunchoo 9 місяців тому

    Shoutout the man Joe for giving us the scoop🤝🏾

  • @brando404_
    @brando404_ 9 місяців тому

    Joe Knows videos been helpful frl

  • @Smoove2You
    @Smoove2You 9 місяців тому

    Love the vid thx bro

  • @paperboypolo17
    @paperboypolo17 9 місяців тому

    Thanks for the info

  • @AyyWatUp
    @AyyWatUp 9 місяців тому

    I’m new to ur channel thanks for the great content

  • @BigShotKev
    @BigShotKev 9 місяців тому +3

    Also making a player first then making your build after is.good too cuz you can skip the story potentially or be able to skip cut scenes aside from knowing all the animation requirements

    • @Spalaying
      @Spalaying 9 місяців тому

      True! But you still have to spend atleast a extra 150k to get that 90

    • @Spalaying
      @Spalaying 9 місяців тому

      Attribute upgrades tax

  • @dominichogan1177
    @dominichogan1177 9 місяців тому

    Just subscribed thanks for the tips

  • @TwinJokic
    @TwinJokic 9 місяців тому

    W Joe. Great content

  • @californiadream28
    @californiadream28 9 місяців тому

    Keep going joe we got you

  • @asiajackson1550
    @asiajackson1550 9 місяців тому

    Is the NBA template a good way to gauge how high or low you should put a certain attribute? For example if I know I only need to be able to make a couple 3a like Jason Tatum or Jaylen brown can I jus look at their attributes and go based off that

  • @isaiahmays7204
    @isaiahmays7204 9 місяців тому

    Great points, especially making a build you want to play with. Yea attributes matter but if you get a open shot having a 90 3pt won’t help. Getting those badges is a grind so make something thts not miserable to grind at for you

  • @dfreenation8276
    @dfreenation8276 9 місяців тому +5

    WHAT I LEARN TO DO IS MAKE MY SAME PLAYER ON MYLEAGUE LIKE PUTTING THE SAME ATTRIBUTES, BADGES, HEIGHT AND ARM LENGTH I WOULD GET ON MYPLAYER AND SELECT THE SIGS THAT I WOULD GET BC WHEN YOU JUST TEST YOUR PLAYER REGULARLY YOU ONLY GET THE BASE SIGS. SO THATS WHY I TEST MY BUILDER ON MYLEAGUE. ITS NOT GONNA BE 100% ACCURATE BUT CLOSE AND NO WAISTE OF MONEY

  • @BuffaloBeBallinYT
    @BuffaloBeBallinYT 9 місяців тому

    W Video Joe Appreciate It 🫡

  • @DxpeDreamsGQ
    @DxpeDreamsGQ 9 місяців тому

    Bro I swear you are one of the best at telling the truth and keeping it real I hope you also keep up the pro am content cause I fucking love it keep it up man 💯💪🏽

  • @phantomn0kk279
    @phantomn0kk279 9 місяців тому

    I wish the first tip worked for jumpshots you need a certain rating just to see the base if you don’t meet that you wouldn’t know the actual rating when you add the releases

  • @KXXNGp
    @KXXNGp 9 місяців тому

    I used to make a player in my league With the same attributes and play a few games on HoF and play with the animations you have available for that build in Myplayer, it’s annoying but i saved a lot of money doing that last year, only made one my player 🤷🏿‍♂️

  • @EzyM1ke
    @EzyM1ke 9 місяців тому +1

    You just saved me from making another build Joe ngl I was seconds away from throwing away and giving up on my 88 overall build lol 😂

  • @LegendaryLooks
    @LegendaryLooks 9 місяців тому

    Definitely going to make a 60 overall to see all the sigs first that was a clutch tip ngl .. and acceleration only mesning iwth ball blew my mind

  • @d_dubXanz_dad
    @d_dubXanz_dad 9 місяців тому

    I like the way u articulate well said

  • @Isaac-ts6iz
    @Isaac-ts6iz 9 місяців тому +9

    Using the Paul George template and tweaking it to my liking

  • @Jimmysticks22
    @Jimmysticks22 9 місяців тому

    Do boosts transfer from player to player? If so I would not make a dummy build to check stuff due to pre order bonus

  • @slizobreeze2571
    @slizobreeze2571 9 місяців тому +1

    6:19 the biggest facts! You have to commit, believe in what u make and max it out.

  • @qwsa44
    @qwsa44 9 місяців тому

    looking forward to see joe's top 10 build video after game is released

  • @tokentaken1472
    @tokentaken1472 9 місяців тому

    Thanks Joe

  • @cesarlopez-ry3zp
    @cesarlopez-ry3zp 9 місяців тому +2

    Out of finishing, shooting, playmaking, defense and physicals.
    Which one was the most expensive to upgrade? Since you tested out the builder. In 23’ finishing was way cheaper then shooting.

    • @TherealAk92
      @TherealAk92 9 місяців тому +1

      Finishing is expensive as hell this year

    • @cavsnation9194
      @cavsnation9194 9 місяців тому

      @@TherealAk92defense too

  • @Jortlus317ohYEAH
    @Jortlus317ohYEAH 9 місяців тому +14

    New to 2K this year, but very excited! Hoping to fill some gaps in my squad by making a player who can sink midrange baskets and farm assists with good ball movement.

    • @sixstarsteevo998
      @sixstarsteevo998 9 місяців тому +5

      need more 2k players wit the same mindset, enjoy your time though bro

    • @rafaelrodriguez8922
      @rafaelrodriguez8922 9 місяців тому +1

      I need a guy like this on my team. You play ps?

    • @orangutanxremix510
      @orangutanxremix510 9 місяців тому +5

      @@rafaelrodriguez8922it’s cross play this year. Unless you’re on Prehistoric Gen 😂

    • @juuiceboxx
      @juuiceboxx 9 місяців тому +1

      @@orangutanxremix510prehistoric gen is crazy😂most people have ps5’s now though, at least where I’m from.

    • @Preeskiii
      @Preeskiii 9 місяців тому

      You sound like me. I love the middy and dimes 😂

  • @jae_jaymukbung5197
    @jae_jaymukbung5197 9 місяців тому

    Last year was My first Year Not putting a toe on the Park floor.. IT WAS STRAIGHT THEATER.… hopefully this season bring me back to it

  • @proodharma9082
    @proodharma9082 3 місяці тому

    Ngl sweated 2k20 had a big break came back downloaded 2k24 today and joe still grinding use to love his builds on 20

  • @derrickongod
    @derrickongod 9 місяців тому +11

    Was that a hint about the rebound chaser👀 or am I overreacting 😂

  • @franklight4880
    @franklight4880 9 місяців тому

    Let goo Joe! All these other content creators keep saying every build is the best build & the game not even out yet 😭😭 only Joe knows & not the other guys

  • @jetset7000
    @jetset7000 9 місяців тому +1

    also test out your bills in my GM mode or My league that way you can use your animation and jump shots

  • @jonfranks9953
    @jonfranks9953 9 місяців тому

    Joe knows all . Great vid

  • @pgballyt
    @pgballyt 9 місяців тому

    Joe we love you man I was gonna ask if you could put your twins on stream for a minute or so if you may

  • @tygrievous6643
    @tygrievous6643 8 місяців тому

    Hey joe. I’m having a crisis. I got a pf. And I’m thinking about doing more passing and d dunk over d layup cause I want hof slithery , and the better passing. But is there a big difference between hof slithery and gold slithery? If not , ima just keep my build on how I have it . I’ll b erisking d layup with the change but idk if it’s really worth it. Help me!!☺️

  • @makaveli_tha_don3338
    @makaveli_tha_don3338 9 місяців тому +1

    Joe do you think ball handling and speed with ball is essential for a primarily slashing build?

    • @asapvibes5713
      @asapvibes5713 9 місяців тому

      I got a 91 ball handle for badge reasons and a 75 speed 73 acceleration 6'7 PG ,thinking qbout finalizing this build

  • @amahdavid3476
    @amahdavid3476 9 місяців тому +1

    AD build looking good to me, tweak it a little bit and it should be a nice build to run

  • @VI_Yai_iV
    @VI_Yai_iV 9 місяців тому +10

    If you think about it,it really is insane that clamps did not require strength

    • @zay6888
      @zay6888 9 місяців тому +2

      doesn’t perimeter d increase strength anyway

    • @juuiceboxx
      @juuiceboxx 9 місяців тому

      @@zay6888Those 2 attributes might be linked I’m not 100% sure tho

    • @kenpachikiller2804
      @kenpachikiller2804 9 місяців тому +1

      It do require it

  • @thespiritguy2480
    @thespiritguy2480 9 місяців тому

    I like this information cuz i do give up easily on builds

  • @ccaallo
    @ccaallo 9 місяців тому

    What strength is ideal for a guard this year?

  • @AmacioMartin
    @AmacioMartin 9 місяців тому +5

    Fellas, remember you don't have to spend any money on vc after buying the game, you can if you want but you don't have to.

  • @alphawolfsrs3802
    @alphawolfsrs3802 9 місяців тому +3

    Make a build that fits ur play style. Nerf fades thx 2k. Some ppl were not abusing them by spaming dribble move then fade but instead they get open off ball then fade to create space.

  • @xInfiniteCaliber
    @xInfiniteCaliber 9 місяців тому +2

    2K needs to be more transparent. Have animations pop up in the builder like badges based off attributes. All bout money man :(

  • @shottieSGB
    @shottieSGB 9 місяців тому

    this year is gonna be based on how you play so and so are the badges for example you have a point guard with 85 ball handling but you just catch and shoot your badges for dribbling will stay bronze when u making a build base it off of what you know how to do in the game

  • @landothemantho
    @landothemantho 9 місяців тому

    If you gotta wait till 99 for a good build is crazy. Definitely need badges at least in the past

  • @GrimmRx
    @GrimmRx 9 місяців тому

    It’s weird…I am genuinely so stoked to spend hours starring at the mp builder and giving myself severe anxiety. 8th can’t come fast enough 😩

  • @moathalsuger
    @moathalsuger 9 місяців тому

    Just one question, it the builder on new gen is the same builder on old gen ?

  • @vonte4135
    @vonte4135 9 місяців тому

    So should speed with ball affect ya quick first step with dribbling and not acceleration

  • @Theofficial._.niyah9
    @Theofficial._.niyah9 9 місяців тому

    Joe would an NBA template be good? And I could tweak some things around I want

  • @hoopcentral3605
    @hoopcentral3605 9 місяців тому

    wats the meta guard build this year 6’6 or small guards like 6’2? please respond

  • @Prince_Trill
    @Prince_Trill 9 місяців тому

    1 milli joe 🎉🎉🎉

  • @slyrhythm6471
    @slyrhythm6471 9 місяців тому

    Thank you

  • @warZ1270
    @warZ1270 9 місяців тому

    Is speed with ball important this year or the same as last year

  • @szrge6825
    @szrge6825 9 місяців тому

    dumb question but whats the builder gonna be for current gen?

  • @1234567890123760
    @1234567890123760 9 місяців тому +1

    feels like ive missed sooo much since 2k20

  • @ryanmorales2282
    @ryanmorales2282 9 місяців тому

    A life hack I like to do is create a build in the my builder and recreate it in the “create-a-player” option in the main menu and use it a few games and test it out there

  • @lemondsearels4275
    @lemondsearels4275 9 місяців тому

    Joe be grinding

  • @RyansNerdCorner_
    @RyansNerdCorner_ 9 місяців тому

    I'm new to 2k so because I don't know my playstyle is there a build I should go for?

  • @BlueAfro420
    @BlueAfro420 9 місяців тому

    What build should I make if I wanna play 3s with randoms or 2s with randoms