I love that your explicit goal of these episodes is to learn from what happens in CR, not just to pick it apart. It changes the whole tone into something really gracious.
Cloakers have an int of 13, and can speak two languages lol. They're just weirdos who mostly want to snack on people, and have strange alien minds and communicate through subsonic moans that inspire feelings of doom when audible. Also, did anyone else forget they are size large, these things are terrifying!
I know the issues with tiberious make these episodes hard for many to get through, but I actually really enjoyed the K'Varn fight just for the insanity of their plan and it actually working. Like their plan for getting into K'Varn's chamber and initiating the fight.. was just kinda awesome. Operation Dumbo Drop a la DnD.
I want you to know that for the entirety of this video and likely for many hours more I will be singing “One eyed, One Horned, Flying Purple People Eater”. If I do not comment on your next video, understand, I was justly murdered by my family for being annoying. Anyways “Well, I saw the thing comin’ out the sky…”
For context, I have been playing since the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons era, and to the best of my knowledge, the "natural 1 is a fumble" has *always* been a house rule.
I don't get why people hate this rule so much. Like, unless you're high level, your modifiers aren't gonna matter when it just makes the Nat 1 an UnNat 3.
@@mkang8782 I was referring to my personal experience of people hating the Nat 1 equals immediate failure and Nat 20 equals immediate success rules, regardless of Homebrew status. Don't know why you got so defensive my man.
@@ultrabigfella I was requesting clarification, not getting defensive. EDIT: speaking of clarification, there's a difference between a natural 1 being an auto-fail and it being a fumble. The best way to explain it is with a weapon attack; you roll a natural 1: Auto-fail: you miss, no damage inflicted Fumble: you drop your weapon; you hit an ally; et al
Honestly, my kids want to listen to the show, and your breakdowns are perfect for their attention span and also let's them talk out the show with me. You are a family treasure in our house. Thanks for making amazing videos.
Totally agree. The fight itself is bonkers and intense with added obvious chickens coming home to roost. The added factor of WTF is Orion doing with Tiberius not only adds to the madness, but actually sidelines him from most of the main fight. It also has an added "in hindsight" confirmation that they don't actually need him and his arcane sorcery magic for the big fights going forward.
I don't understand the mindset either. If you're watching campaign 1, you're embarking on a several hundred hour journey. Why recommend people skip the climax of the first arc because of some mildly uncomfortable situations around one player? I think most people watching Critical Role are mature enough to handle one guy being a bit of an asshole.
Man, I really wish these were every week! I get so excited every time a crit role demystified comes out. Love your analysis and the way you handle difficult/controversial parts of the series with a level head and an unbiased point of view. Keep up the awesome work!
Thank you! I do hope to do them weekly at some point, but I would need to be at the point where I could bring on an editor, because these videos take a lot of time to edit lol. It’s a high-tier goal on Patreon because it’s not likely to happen soon, but maybe someday…
I do really like how Matt does scrying. My campaign is still low enough level no one has scrying yet, but its something to keep in mind for the future :)
Just wanted to say that I've subscribed to your channel and have blasted through every one of these videos in a single afternoon. I love seeing people talk about Critical Role with such a detail oriented eye, it's refreshing as hell.
Oh boy... this episode... the SECOND OA/Tibs recognized K'Varn's description... he was ready to call it quits since, you know, magic user kinda helpless against Dat anti-magic cone. And then... the metagaming. By gods, the metagaming. Right down to describing lair actions! This is the moment where he started getting worse. And then we have what happens next episode... for the reasons you say.
@@wolfox7776 and to think... I once tried to defend his at-the-table actions at one point. And boy, did I fail my hindsight check back then. I've learned my lesson ever since.
Could've easily been at least partially mitigated with asking Matt for a knowledge check. It seems reasonable that Tibs would've probably known some things about beholders, given their infamy and his magical background, but at the end of the day, it's the GM's call. Oh well. Hindsight and such.
Coming in from the outside, all I know about Tiberius and Orion is what Matt talked about in his video. Suffice to say, really looking forward to episode 28. :')
I did kind of miss this point in their characters, when they were less assured of their abilities. The idea of a TPK went from very real in the K’Varn lead up, to not even a consideration for the Conclave later on.
@@Zalied Yeah, Matt's actually a pretty gentle DM when it comes to combat. Part of that is because the numbers you have to use to challenge this many PC's tends to be more than he wants to run, especially on stream. Every once in a while he comes out swinging, but mostly the PC's are pretty secure. There's been a couple times I've felt a little bad for him, as it seems like he expected a bit more of a challenge. Other times just as an audience member I've wanted him to put the fear of god in them, but it's his show and it's not like he's inexperienced or anything, so I guess this is how they all like things.
Not wholly related, it has been an incredibly long while since I've watched these episodes of CR, so there's much I don't remember, and I don't really have the capacity to revisit them currently, so it's great to have these revisits with you that also save us from some of the cruder parts of these episodes. I remember realizing very early on that K'varn is a beholder, but I don't remember what my reaction to that was. I also remember really liking the few fights in these episodes.
Episode 11 was the last episode I watched before jumping to 27. I remember a certain someone scowling and stropping when the team were victorious. That was the moment for me. Yes you may not have been able to do what you wanted, but to be actively unhappy when your party, and your friends, are successful is not a good moment. I am looking forward to hearing your take on it
Come on! You can't send us a hook like that at the end of the video and wait for two weeks. The hype is high! On the other hand, I've always found fascinating the way Matthew describes scrying spells.
Hopefully someday they will! That’s a goal on my patreon, if one day I can hire an editor then these videos can come out weekly, but until then they just take too long to edit to come out weekly.
@@SupergeekMike Thats very understandable, I bet the episodes are alot of work. They are so good to watch through and see all the little details pointed out that one might have missed when first watching the show.
Critical Fumbles are also really bad. A fighter with 3-4 attacks is going to fumble far more often than a bard casting saving throw spells and never making attacks.
Have you run across "The Monsters Know What They're Doing"? It's a rundown of how best to make use of a monster's particular abilities. The Cloaker is actually one of the monsters I first encountered via that blog, IIRC. It's not quite on the level of Tucker's Kobolds, but it can certainly spice up the gameplay to take full advantage of the stats as written, and make each encounter feel distinctive.
I was planning to make a video about it earlier this year, actually! The vid got pushed back when my child was born 5 weeks early, that threw my schedule out of wack a bit lol
And then you have "The Temple Showdown" where he outright tries to steal all the glory... and fails epicly. All while VM are having their hands full...
I realize we should be looking at this for how to better the game, but I just don't have as much to say on that score. Mike's generally saying all that needs saying on that score, so … yes. I therefore find myself continually falling back on the entertainment value of the show. I will say that Liam's reaction when he realized what K'varn was was the most "ohh shit" I think I've ever seen from him. Revisiting the episode forces me to reconsider and clarify some of my negative comments about Keyleth. I noted that her crisis of conscience was something I actually liked. Had she been consistent, she would've been the one who never tried to escalate or start a fight, the one who would speak up if the party was not trying to do the right thing, etc. She wasn't consistent though, so I found the character judgmental, self-righteous, and hypocritical, at best. And she's my least favorite because the other contender for that honor … isn't part of Vox Machina. Perhaps Marisha didn't wind up playing the character she wanted to play all the time, but I don't see the things I dislike about Keyleth as somehow reflecting on Marisha negatively. Tiberius … I said I like the character. And I liked Orion when we first met him (and that goes for the entire cast, actually.) Up to this point Tiberius had been a positive part of the party. What he did wasn't always the best idea, but he was genuinely trying to be part of the party. Here that starts to change and he does begin to become a bit of a problem player. I didn't say Tiberius becomes a problem character (though the character's behavior does reflect the player's.) The issue isn't Tiberius, it's Orion. And had Orion remained with the show without a pretty stark course correction, I would've come to dislike both the player and character quite a lot. I don't hold negative views of Marisha-I don't know Marisha. That'd be like saying I dislike any other actor because I dislike the character they played. That'd be stupid. But I do hold some negative views of Orion because I know some things he (not his character) did that were just unacceptable to me. Even so, I hope he's made changes in his life that would allow me to think better of him. A lot of the Internet is big on hating on people forever-no forgiveness and no mercy. Do something wrong in the eyes of the Internet and, to quote Percy, "Your soul is forfeit!" That ain't me. (In fact, that sort of attitude is a lot of why I don't like Keyleth as a character…) I'd much rather learn that the person I wouldn't have liked had he remained is no longer who Orion is today.
I think Keyleth was actually pretty consistent character-wise. She didn't speak out every time and she did also do some arguably pretty bad things. But her difference is that she almost always felt bad if it led to something lethal. If a character died and it was cruel, she'd feel bad, internalize the guilt, sit on it and it'd eventually bubble over after too many immoral acts from the group where she worries about the group's morals. Real people aren't black and white when it comes to morality so it makes sense that of course, in a setting where we're supposed to consider the pcs as real people, sometimes her actions aren't the best, or maybe some would even consider them hypocritical. That's just her not being one-dimensional in my opinion. Keyleth didn't mind combat, or killing enemies attacking them. She carried most about brutality and whether the people they kill actually deserved it, or if there was a better solution they could've taken especially because of the child she killed even though it was an accident (which she continuously remains sensitive about later on, clearly still feeling guilty about it). When she does talk about morality she doesn't seem to be attacking everyone else and acting morally superior to me, I see it more as her being extremely overwhelmed by her feelings and therefore a little emotional about the situation, so she speaks with a lot of emotion (which isn't inherently a bad thing). She wouldn't target one person, she'd mainly bring up the most recent act, while still mentioning the other past activities and actions that worried her, showing that she did in fact bottle in her worry for some time (at least in my opinion). She brings up their morals and questions them, the party talks about how they feel about their past actions and they adjust accordingly. This is a good thing for the campaign in general or the party. If they hadn't corrected the path they started at first, their standing in Emon likely would've been severely damaged. They got cocky, cruel, and incredibly entitled. They gradually learn to be the heroes they want to be without becoming villains (while still staying true to themselves, like still killing enemies, starting fights and etc, just keeping in mind when it's appropriate or when it's not in alignment with their personalities). Keylith and Pike helped with group morals. Percy and Vex helped with group planning. Scanlan, Grog, and Tiberius helped with actually completing the task, and Vax kept the group together and on task (as the kinda de facto leader). They all helped in more ways than this and overlapped into other groups, but in its simplest form, these are what the group was really good at. in my opinion. But overall I think Keylith was great when questioning morals, even if sometimes she could come off strongly. Taking into account that she's still a part of a group, that characters aren't one dimensional, the fact that Matt does punish them for acting too immorally, and that past events also still weigh heavily on her (as well as the group still voices their opinions in regards to the group moral alignment as well, so everyone gets a say) I'd say she played an important and necessary role in the campaign that often gets undermined. Even villains think they're justified and even heroes do wrong. But that's just how I felt and interpreted the character overall.
I love CR, the actual play equivalent of Pro Wrestling, the equivalent of professional pornography. They sure are tumbling and turning, and things are going in and out, they are physically doing the things they are doing, is it real? Yes. As real as pro wrestling. As real as professional porn.
Mike: “They skin it so they now have a Cloaker…”
Me: “Cloak?”
Mike: “Pelt.”
Me: “Oh…”
My mind immediately jumped to cloak too. XD
I love that your explicit goal of these episodes is to learn from what happens in CR, not just to pick it apart. It changes the whole tone into something really gracious.
Thank you!
Cloakers have an int of 13, and can speak two languages lol. They're just weirdos who mostly want to snack on people, and have strange alien minds and communicate through subsonic moans that inspire feelings of doom when audible. Also, did anyone else forget they are size large, these things are terrifying!
WHAT THE F
I know the issues with tiberious make these episodes hard for many to get through, but I actually really enjoyed the K'Varn fight just for the insanity of their plan and it actually working. Like their plan for getting into K'Varn's chamber and initiating the fight.. was just kinda awesome. Operation Dumbo Drop a la DnD.
I want you to know that for the entirety of this video and likely for many hours more I will be singing “One eyed, One Horned, Flying Purple People Eater”. If I do not comment on your next video, understand, I was justly murdered by my family for being annoying. Anyways “Well, I saw the thing comin’ out the sky…”
It had one long horn and one big eye. I commenced to shakin and I said “ooo weee. It looks like a Purple People Eater to me!”
This is, in fact, one of the reasons it’s one of my favorite pieces of fan art :)
For context, I have been playing since the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons era, and to the best of my knowledge, the "natural 1 is a fumble" has *always* been a house rule.
Ohh, I didn’t realize it was never official… that’s actually kind of fascinating and may be grounds for a deep dive in a future video… 🤔
I don't get why people hate this rule so much. Like, unless you're high level, your modifiers aren't gonna matter when it just makes the Nat 1 an UnNat 3.
@@ultrabigfella what in my comment leads you to the conclusion that people "hate this rule"? Also, what rule is "hated"?
@@mkang8782 I was referring to my personal experience of people hating the Nat 1 equals immediate failure and Nat 20 equals immediate success rules, regardless of Homebrew status.
Don't know why you got so defensive my man.
@@ultrabigfella I was requesting clarification, not getting defensive.
EDIT: speaking of clarification, there's a difference between a natural 1 being an auto-fail and it being a fumble.
The best way to explain it is with a weapon attack; you roll a natural 1:
Auto-fail: you miss, no damage inflicted
Fumble: you drop your weapon; you hit an ally; et al
"Huh. I guess it's fine for matt to describe the scrying spell however he wants"
🤣🤣🤣 the SASS on that delivery 🤣🤣🤣
This has been one of the most useful seriees about DMing I've seen.
Honestly, my kids want to listen to the show, and your breakdowns are perfect for their attention span and also let's them talk out the show with me. You are a family treasure in our house. Thanks for making amazing videos.
I could never get behind not watching the next episode. The fight was so intense no amount of Tiberius issues could take that away. Plus flying giants
Totally agree. The fight itself is bonkers and intense with added obvious chickens coming home to roost.
The added factor of WTF is Orion doing with Tiberius not only adds to the madness, but actually sidelines him from most of the main fight. It also has an added "in hindsight" confirmation that they don't actually need him and his arcane sorcery magic for the big fights going forward.
That was also the first fight where Percy truly shines, Taliesin was on another level
I don't understand the mindset either. If you're watching campaign 1, you're embarking on a several hundred hour journey. Why recommend people skip the climax of the first arc because of some mildly uncomfortable situations around one player? I think most people watching Critical Role are mature enough to handle one guy being a bit of an asshole.
Man, I really wish these were every week! I get so excited every time a crit role demystified comes out. Love your analysis and the way you handle difficult/controversial parts of the series with a level head and an unbiased point of view. Keep up the awesome work!
Thank you! I do hope to do them weekly at some point, but I would need to be at the point where I could bring on an editor, because these videos take a lot of time to edit lol. It’s a high-tier goal on Patreon because it’s not likely to happen soon, but maybe someday…
This is a good channel. This is a good series. I like Mike
I do really like how Matt does scrying. My campaign is still low enough level no one has scrying yet, but its something to keep in mind for the future :)
Just wanted to say that I've subscribed to your channel and have blasted through every one of these videos in a single afternoon. I love seeing people talk about Critical Role with such a detail oriented eye, it's refreshing as hell.
Thank you so much!
Oh boy... this episode... the SECOND OA/Tibs recognized K'Varn's description... he was ready to call it quits since, you know, magic user kinda helpless against Dat anti-magic cone.
And then... the metagaming. By gods, the metagaming. Right down to describing lair actions! This is the moment where he started getting worse.
And then we have what happens next episode... for the reasons you say.
10 and 11 are some of the worst Tibs episodes. Not as bad as "Half chud", but oh fuck are they bad.
@@wolfox7776 and to think... I once tried to defend his at-the-table actions at one point. And boy, did I fail my hindsight check back then.
I've learned my lesson ever since.
Could've easily been at least partially mitigated with asking Matt for a knowledge check. It seems reasonable that Tibs would've probably known some things about beholders, given their infamy and his magical background, but at the end of the day, it's the GM's call. Oh well. Hindsight and such.
@@offcenterideas and even if he had made a roll, I doubt he'd have adhered to the result... probably would have tried to cheat to justify it.
Coming in from the outside, all I know about Tiberius and Orion is what Matt talked about in his video. Suffice to say, really looking forward to episode 28. :')
I did kind of miss this point in their characters, when they were less assured of their abilities. The idea of a TPK went from very real in the K’Varn lead up, to not even a consideration for the Conclave later on.
Tpk wasn't ever an issue it was always just if 1 person died or not
@@Zalied Yeah, Matt's actually a pretty gentle DM when it comes to combat. Part of that is because the numbers you have to use to challenge this many PC's tends to be more than he wants to run, especially on stream. Every once in a while he comes out swinging, but mostly the PC's are pretty secure.
There's been a couple times I've felt a little bad for him, as it seems like he expected a bit more of a challenge. Other times just as an audience member I've wanted him to put the fear of god in them, but it's his show and it's not like he's inexperienced or anything, so I guess this is how they all like things.
@@Lurklen Matt's not usually one to modify a monster or fudge rolls mid fight so also if the party does super well then that's it
Not wholly related, it has been an incredibly long while since I've watched these episodes of CR, so there's much I don't remember, and I don't really have the capacity to revisit them currently, so it's great to have these revisits with you that also save us from some of the cruder parts of these episodes.
I remember realizing very early on that K'varn is a beholder, but I don't remember what my reaction to that was. I also remember really liking the few fights in these episodes.
Obligatory 🎵 "it's been a while" 🎵
This episode of critical role was definitely a tough one to get through, but I'm very interested to see your thoughts on the next
Here again and ready to hear some sweet sweet analysis 🥰
Episode 11 was the last episode I watched before jumping to 27. I remember a certain someone scowling and stropping when the team were victorious. That was the moment for me.
Yes you may not have been able to do what you wanted, but to be actively unhappy when your party, and your friends, are successful is not a good moment.
I am looking forward to hearing your take on it
Great video! Love your thoughts about these subjects. Thank you for having a nuanced opinion on Orion, I think he gets more grief than he deserves.
I love these videos SupergeekMike these are the high light of my week.
I have been waiting for this video for what felt like a very long time \o/
I’ve been waiting for this!!
Can't wait to hear the "cask of ale" scene recounted in the next episode!
Come on! You can't send us a hook like that at the end of the video and wait for two weeks. The hype is high!
On the other hand, I've always found fascinating the way Matthew describes scrying spells.
I wish these episodes would come out more often, waiting two weeks just feels too long.
Loving the series so far, keep up the good work.
Hopefully someday they will! That’s a goal on my patreon, if one day I can hire an editor then these videos can come out weekly, but until then they just take too long to edit to come out weekly.
@@SupergeekMike Thats very understandable, I bet the episodes are alot of work. They are so good to watch through and see all the little details pointed out that one might have missed when first watching the show.
@@christianpoulsen4164 Thank you!
Critical Fumbles are also really bad. A fighter with 3-4 attacks is going to fumble far more often than a bard casting saving throw spells and never making attacks.
Monks with their punches as well.
There's just no real fair way to balance and it really just buffs spellcasters which don't need it
When I've used them, they've only been applicable to the first attack roll of a turn, for just this reason.
so nice to have this as a resource to go over the only episodes of the show that I've ever listened to, great work as always.
I just started a first time watch of all of critical role .. the full watch through... Just finished episode 10 and you post this. Woohoo!
absolutely epic thumbnail my friend, Nope is so good
It’s one of my favorite pieces of fan art for the Vox Machina campaign 😁
Yay! Demystifyed week! I get so excited when I see these videos
Love the episode, and sooooooo excited for the next one! I can't wait to hear what you have to say!
I forgot about the giant poor giant
Great episode and fight!
Have you run across "The Monsters Know What They're Doing"? It's a rundown of how best to make use of a monster's particular abilities. The Cloaker is actually one of the monsters I first encountered via that blog, IIRC. It's not quite on the level of Tucker's Kobolds, but it can certainly spice up the gameplay to take full advantage of the stats as written, and make each encounter feel distinctive.
I was planning to make a video about it earlier this year, actually! The vid got pushed back when my child was born 5 weeks early, that threw my schedule out of wack a bit lol
Orions actions during this episode are wack
And then you have "The Temple Showdown" where he outright tries to steal all the glory... and fails epicly. All while VM are having their hands full...
I've never played with a super talented voice actor, but from experience playing with someone who's a terrible voice actor can be hilarious.
I realize we should be looking at this for how to better the game, but I just don't have as much to say on that score. Mike's generally saying all that needs saying on that score, so … yes. I therefore find myself continually falling back on the entertainment value of the show. I will say that Liam's reaction when he realized what K'varn was was the most "ohh shit" I think I've ever seen from him.
Revisiting the episode forces me to reconsider and clarify some of my negative comments about Keyleth. I noted that her crisis of conscience was something I actually liked. Had she been consistent, she would've been the one who never tried to escalate or start a fight, the one who would speak up if the party was not trying to do the right thing, etc. She wasn't consistent though, so I found the character judgmental, self-righteous, and hypocritical, at best. And she's my least favorite because the other contender for that honor … isn't part of Vox Machina. Perhaps Marisha didn't wind up playing the character she wanted to play all the time, but I don't see the things I dislike about Keyleth as somehow reflecting on Marisha negatively.
Tiberius … I said I like the character. And I liked Orion when we first met him (and that goes for the entire cast, actually.) Up to this point Tiberius had been a positive part of the party. What he did wasn't always the best idea, but he was genuinely trying to be part of the party. Here that starts to change and he does begin to become a bit of a problem player. I didn't say Tiberius becomes a problem character (though the character's behavior does reflect the player's.) The issue isn't Tiberius, it's Orion. And had Orion remained with the show without a pretty stark course correction, I would've come to dislike both the player and character quite a lot.
I don't hold negative views of Marisha-I don't know Marisha. That'd be like saying I dislike any other actor because I dislike the character they played. That'd be stupid. But I do hold some negative views of Orion because I know some things he (not his character) did that were just unacceptable to me. Even so, I hope he's made changes in his life that would allow me to think better of him. A lot of the Internet is big on hating on people forever-no forgiveness and no mercy. Do something wrong in the eyes of the Internet and, to quote Percy, "Your soul is forfeit!" That ain't me. (In fact, that sort of attitude is a lot of why I don't like Keyleth as a character…) I'd much rather learn that the person I wouldn't have liked had he remained is no longer who Orion is today.
I think Keyleth was actually pretty consistent character-wise. She didn't speak out every time and she did also do some arguably pretty bad things. But her difference is that she almost always felt bad if it led to something lethal. If a character died and it was cruel, she'd feel bad, internalize the guilt, sit on it and it'd eventually bubble over after too many immoral acts from the group where she worries about the group's morals. Real people aren't black and white when it comes to morality so it makes sense that of course, in a setting where we're supposed to consider the pcs as real people, sometimes her actions aren't the best, or maybe some would even consider them hypocritical. That's just her not being one-dimensional in my opinion. Keyleth didn't mind combat, or killing enemies attacking them. She carried most about brutality and whether the people they kill actually deserved it, or if there was a better solution they could've taken especially because of the child she killed even though it was an accident (which she continuously remains sensitive about later on, clearly still feeling guilty about it). When she does talk about morality she doesn't seem to be attacking everyone else and acting morally superior to me, I see it more as her being extremely overwhelmed by her feelings and therefore a little emotional about the situation, so she speaks with a lot of emotion (which isn't inherently a bad thing). She wouldn't target one person, she'd mainly bring up the most recent act, while still mentioning the other past activities and actions that worried her, showing that she did in fact bottle in her worry for some time (at least in my opinion). She brings up their morals and questions them, the party talks about how they feel about their past actions and they adjust accordingly. This is a good thing for the campaign in general or the party. If they hadn't corrected the path they started at first, their standing in Emon likely would've been severely damaged. They got cocky, cruel, and incredibly entitled. They gradually learn to be the heroes they want to be without becoming villains (while still staying true to themselves, like still killing enemies, starting fights and etc, just keeping in mind when it's appropriate or when it's not in alignment with their personalities). Keylith and Pike helped with group morals. Percy and Vex helped with group planning. Scanlan, Grog, and Tiberius helped with actually completing the task, and Vax kept the group together and on task (as the kinda de facto leader). They all helped in more ways than this and overlapped into other groups, but in its simplest form, these are what the group was really good at. in my opinion. But overall I think Keylith was great when questioning morals, even if sometimes she could come off strongly. Taking into account that she's still a part of a group, that characters aren't one dimensional, the fact that Matt does punish them for acting too immorally, and that past events also still weigh heavily on her (as well as the group still voices their opinions in regards to the group moral alignment as well, so everyone gets a say) I'd say she played an important and necessary role in the campaign that often gets undermined. Even villains think they're justified and even heroes do wrong. But that's just how I felt and interpreted the character overall.
I love CR, the actual play equivalent of Pro Wrestling, the equivalent of professional pornography. They sure are tumbling and turning, and things are going in and out, they are physically doing the things they are doing, is it real? Yes. As real as pro wrestling. As real as professional porn.