Hearing the phrase, "Take the pitch," made me irrationally happy. I find it so funny that baseball and fighting games have almost exactly the same phrase.
Somehow, despite following baseball for years, I never noticed the obvious similarity in phrasing. But while I was writing this video, the connection kind of went off like an explosion in my head. I can't believe I never picked up on that.
as part of my quarter life crisis I’ve picked up watching baseball as a hobby and i have been thinking about this EXACT point for the past few months, im so glad this video exists
It's funny that I actually recently got into baseball myself as a lifelong fighting game player. A few more interesting comparisons to make: Intentionally walking could be seen as something like forcing a use of meter to close the round. Similarly, hitting the batter could be something like using EX DP on the opponent's wake-up, fully unhinged Ken-style. There's also the "character select" aspect of things like righties vs. southpaws, knuckleballers, underhand pitchers, a hitter's stance, and, lest we forget, the man behind the dish calling the pitches, the catcher. Overall a really cool comparison with a lot of parallels to draw.
The most interesting part of this video to me as an American is the idea of positioning the pitcher as the attacker. I've always viewed the batter as the attacker since he's the one who actually scores points. But this analogy works better than I thought the other way
Baseball is the only sport (besides cricket) where the defense holds the ball. For the casual viewer, it’s a few moments of action minutes apart. For the avid viewer, it’s 54+ mental chess matches back-to-back.
hi. at 19:10 the al leiter conversation about pitching "in" is more than just about throwing in the strike zone, it's about pitching on the inside of the strike zone closer to the hitter.
came down here to say this as well. The risk to this is not just that hitters can turn on the pitch and pull it to their strong side, it's also that you're risking hitting the batter and giving them a free base (and also maybe starting a fight). Bambo's point still stands, but just a bit more nuance
Also, a southpaw pitching a right-handed batter has a greater risk of hitting the batter with an inside pitch. I like how you highlighted the top row and bottom row, and thought you were going to highlight the right-most column when referring to inside pitching (as most batters are righties)
It can also include a pitch out of the strike zone, as long as it's closer to the hitter. Just like a pitch outside can be a ball or a strike, so long as it's on the side further from the batter.
Another fun little parallel is the goofy-ass jargon that both of them have. Worm-burner, shift beater, can of corn, high heat, cheese at the knees, oppo taco, bloop, The Maddux, perfectos, no-nos, TOOTBLAN, FARTSLAM, NOBLETIGER, The White Castle Special, swords, The Mendoza Line, painting, the eephus. All those terms come from baseball and hold meaning to the kinds of people who are as in deep with baseball as you are with fighting games. Just to keep me occupied, here are what all those things mean: Worm-burner: a pitch or hit that goes directly into the ground between the pitcher and hitter with great force shift beater: a weak hit to the opposite side of the field from where the batter is positioned, to the space the defense would usually occupy but has chosen to leave vulnerable by shifting defenders towards the areas the hitter is more likely to send the ball can of corn: an easy-to-catch fly ball. This term apparently originates from a practice common among store clerks in the late 1800s. high heat: a difficult to hit rising fastball thrown at or just above the top of the strike zone cheese at the knees: the opposite of high heat, a fastball thrown right at the bottom of the strike zone that is extremely difficult for a hitter to recognize as a strike until it’s too late. I think this term was coined by Pitching Ninja. oppo taco: an opposite field home run bloop: a ball that is hit just hard enough to go over the heads of the infield but light enough that the outfielders have no chance of catching it. Almost always results in a single. The Maddux: a performance in which a pitcher throws a complete game shutout in fewer than 100 pitches. Named after Greg Maddux, who accomplished the feat nearly twice as many times as any other pitcher has in their career. perfectos: perfect games (games in which a pitcher did not allow any batter to reach base across nine innings) no-nos: no-hitters (games in which a pitcher did not allow a hit, but may have allowed batters to reach on an error or walk) TOOTBLAN: Thrown Out On The Basepath Like A Nincompoop. A facetiously named stat for when a baserunner just completely fucks up and it’s entirely his fault. FARTSLAM: Fielder Allows Runner To Score Like A Moron. Like a TOOTBLAN, but when a fielder completely fucks up instead of a runner. NOBLETIGER: No Outs Bases Loaded Ending (with) Team Incapable (of) Getting Easy Run. With the bases loaded and no outs, a team is expected to score about 2.25 runs before the inning ends, on average. If they manage to end the inning having scored 0 runs, that’s a notable failure. The acronym is a stretch, because the person coining the term wanted to name the feat after the Detroit Tigers, who did this a lot. The White Castle Special: a pitcher striking out a batter with three nasty sliders. swords: another Pitching Ninja term, refers to a swing that a batter tries but fails to check, resulting in a very awkward-looking strike. The Mendoza Line: a batting average of .200. In reference to Mario Mendoza, a player from the 70s who usually failed to bat above .200 in any given season. (For reference, a good batting average is about .250) painting: reliably throwing pitches that just barely touch the edge of the strike zone for a called strike. the eephus: an extremely weak, slow, very hittable pitch thrown with a high arc, intended as a bizarre mixup. From the Hebrew word “efes”, meaning “Nothing”.
As someone who loves both baseball and fighting games, I just want to say thank you for making this video. I don’t even have to express how much this video speaks to me, and I would love to see comparisons to other sports in the future.
My OD reversal, even after I’ve established a modest lead, as soon as my opponent starts applying the slightest amount of pressure: “Put me in, coach! I can do this!!”
As soon as I saw the title I immediately thought “pitching is all about mix ups” and you perfectly expressed that! Lol 102 MPH gas at your head followed by a 78 MPH low curve or something is just too much to handle lol
At 18:00 I thought you were about to make the comparison to “high-low” mixups in fighting games. I’d love to show this video to someone who only understands baseball and not fighting games but I think I’ll have to sit and watch it with them to explain the fighting game jargon. Great video!
You've combined two things I love here, banger video. I also love to hear about Brits becoming baseball fans. Good recommendation on the Japan vs Mexico game, that game was awesome
the whole time you were talking about the player who just spams fastballs being compared to Daigo my brain just constantly went "surely they won't throw a sixth time?"
Pretty glad this comparison is getting more traction. There's this 3rd Strike video about Denjin Ryu that also used the baseball analogy to explain how denjin setups work, probably the first time I heard about it.
I enjoyed this a lot! I love it when people draw connections between different kinds of games like this. No matter how different the culture around them is, they're all just games, from Settlers of Catan to Street Fighter to Baseball, and you can understand a lot about each one by studying the others. Also, not that you mentioned it, but as an American soccer fan, I empathize with the experience of loving a popular sport that everyone around me finds weird and confusing.
As someone who is both a baseball superfan (go Dodgers) and an FGC member (Uni specifically) I never thought someone else would exist in this overlap with me lol I was actually trying to explain to a friend of mine in discord once how a high spinrate slider basically is a mixup given how it breaks low and away to same sided hitters in a way that is hard to lay off of for the batter, or high spin rate 4 seamers above the zone that guys swing underneath because of the lack of drop
I've seen this with other sports as well like squash, tennis, or American football. These sports have some element of mental stack where one side is doing things to get the other side to make a mistake. Once one side makes a mistake, the other side is given the advantage to punish and score.
Great video! Small correction. "Throwing inside" means throwing towards the batter's side of the box. He talks about it being a risky pitch to a left handed pitcher is because at that angle against right handed (majority) batters, if you're off slightly to the left, you've just thrown a fastball right down the middle. If you are off angle slightly to the right, then you run the risk of hitting the batter and just outright losing the at bat.
This video reminds me of how I remember people made comparisons between overwatch and basketball; the way it uses time, the desperate attempts teams will make to go into overtime etc.
I've been playing SF6 and MLB The Show and I've been thinking about those parralels a lot. The fastball/changeup/breaking balls mixups are very real, but they're not pure guesses. Just like fighting games, you can increase your success by understanding the risk/reward of situations.
Fellow british baseball fan reporting in! My old man raised me a Boston Red Sox fan, but I've never actually been to a live game... Hoping my sox play in the next exhibition game down south here, and I may make the trip.
I love when Europeans get into sports outside of the usuals of their region. As a Canadian we get Hockey like crazy but ive been sooooo into American Football. I remember a discussion I had with someone I met from the UK who was super into hockey and not much soccer. He reminded me of many cool things I took for granted about hockey. This whole Baseball fighting game thing I had never thought of, and this video is really cool because of it.
I am so glad someone made a video about this. I’m a college pitcher who picked up MK a couple years ago and it was so cool to find the parallels between the two. You did a great job of explaining the pitcher-batter matchup. Well done.
My biggest anxiety about this video was in trying to explain baseball for the first time to an audience that may know nothing about baseball, so, I massively appreciate hearing that from a college-level player!
I’m a long time fighting game player and I’m about to go to a baseball game tomorrow. (I think I went to one once when I was a kid but honestly can’t remember) Thanks for making it make so much sense!
Great video!! I'm an inspiring game dev and hearing about the psychology of implying pressure to your opponent is FASCINATING. I love hearing about how players balance out risk and reward in just milliseconds through a deep understanding of the mechanics and psychology. Keep up the great work! It's helping me understand so much more about how human brains work and get to use that for my games!!
I always love reading comments from game devs because of what you said! I just like to put words to what's going on in my head, but it's even better that people end up finding it useful!
It's a good day when I find a half hour UA-cam video about the absolute most niche concept that's been plaguing my brain for years because it's so niche that you can't even talk to people about it. ALSO! Baseball is very heavily influential on shonen anime. There's obviously the baseball sports anime but a lot of that story telling dynamic within baseball transfers over to your dragon balls and your narutos and so on. Large gaps in action for tension with quick bursts of action and the entire course of the game, no matter the score, can change in a heart beat.
I think the idea of the threat of an option being more effective than the option itself is probably best explained through the lens of grapplers. If you watch snake eyes play gief or even potemkin, he often gets more damage off his strike game precisely BECAUSE his opponent is so scared of the command throw.
Fighting games have taught me so much about game theory, and I think that Northernlion bit at the beginning describes game theory almost perfectly. Since getitng more into fighting games, I've been looking more for these strategies in sports, which makes them so much more fun to watch. I think these things aren't always apparent to everyone at first because we have to spend so much time just learning the game and honing our skills in the first place (how to throw or hit a ball, how to do your input combos and learning the matchups, etc). Only after you have an appropriate skill level does game theory start to make all the difference between plebs and pros.
I usually explain it as speed chess. There are scenarios to train for, but those same scenarios can be tricky setups for something 4 moves down the road too.
I could make a similar video on racing, sales pitches, music or story-telling. Strategising skills carry over to pretty much anything where strategising occurs. You have to make someone believe and take advantage of the story you're telling them, that's pretty much all of it.
From what you mentioned, music is the most interesting one. I agree with you, but I can't immediately put it into words. Hopefully someone (YOU) does actually make that video eventually - especially since fighting game players love using music for analogy
@@DazIsBambo I'm not gonna make that video, way too much research for my brain. Maybe it's kind of a moot point to make but improvisation takes a lot of thinking ahead and playing off of both what you play and what others play. Often you think ahead together through cues and body language which can be likened to conditioning except you're cooperating rather than trying to catch someone out.
I remember back when I played Smash Ultimate Competitively at a beginner-intermediate level that I developed a skill of seeing the opponents habits and exploiting that. What I found fascinating about this is that this skill of mind found its way into other areas of my life, like noticing at a football game how each team would respond to each other after a specific interaction. Seeing this video go further in depth about the uneven nature of duelist competition is a very satisfying thing to see, because I had largely forgotten about this connection I made for myself being realized in the greater community!
17:00 This is the equivalent to throwing a few deep balls to keep the defense honest in the NFL. The threat of the deep ball opens up the running game options. Also the reverse is constantly pounding the rock and so the threat of the run opens up the play action down the field
My dad took over coaching my little league team after our first coach was unreliable and he taught me mind games really early. He taught me that generally a lot of batters like to take the first pitch, which is absolutely valid...but when the others take the first pitch the pitcher gets comfortable and tends to throw his best pitch first so "if you can see it, and can hit it...might as well" which makes pitchers aware of you stepping up to the plate as threatening. You can also crowd the plate and dare the pitcher to control their throw enough to not clip you which can net you a free ball or base and if they call you on it you can pull the ball for a base hit.
For a ubiquitous example in SF of having a threat create mental stack: jump-ins. 99% of the time, good players especially pros, will anti-air you but if busy their minds with grounded options, the unexpexted jump-in will at least give you plus frames as they take the safer option and block rather than try to anti-air.
this was a fantastic video, i am a lover of traditional sports and esports. finding the parallels between them is so much fun to explain to people. I recently made a new friend and she introduced me to valorant and its a 5v5 game so I always compare it to basketball and my Time as a point guard. When i play, i am there to set up my teammates for success. You can't tell me grim-walling my raze up so she can shoot ppl on the plant site is the same as an olley-oop cause i fucking feel like chris paul when i do it lol. or when I load up with randoms and if we all know to play our roles we can communicate without explicitly talking.
Very insightful video, I never would have guessed that the sport you were referring to a few weeks ago would be baseball! Also, I still feel the burn after that sick call-out against my shimmy, thanks for the feature xD
I want to start this out by saying this. You have opened my mind to a line of thinking I had not previously considered. Great vid. I have just one thing. Having baseball explained to me by a British person as a baseball loving American was a trip, man. It was an absolute ride for a second there! I did not have that on my bingo card for 2024. You explained everything great! Please don't take this as criticism. You have me just picturing an off speed pitcher metaphorically hitting a heavy button every time we see Change Up or how great Grappler players hold the same sort of mythical status as a good knuckle ball pitcher.... what heck... I could go on and on with these metaphors and comparisons.
i really like the strategy of both the most, which is why i love both. baseball is my fav sport when it comes to the strategy. and fgs are my fav esport for the same reason. baseball and fighting games can be as simple as "hit the good button/throw the good pitch", and as complex as these crazy strings/pitch sequences with a crazy finisher that gets the SO or the KO. this hit both of my super niches well. good watch!!
Amazing video, might even start watching baseball now 😂 Was getting tired of the rock-paper-scissors analogy, definitely gonna use your points in the future!
As somebody who was playing baseball since as young as 4 and is now getting into fighting games in their 30s, this video is incredible. Thank you for this.
As someone who's both a hardcore gamer and a multi-sport athlete I've always tried to explain to anyone who could listen how understanding the psychology of sports helped me become a better gamer. Nobody ever listened because they never cared about sports but I knew the secret. I think this video is great and I'm glad I'm not the only person who thinks this way.
At 19:44 he also may be referring to "Inside" as "close to the batter, in the strikezone" ie the 741 on the numpad - to a righthanded batter. Still, an inside fastball in THIS case is a strike, but an inside pitch can be too far inside also be a ball. This pitch a "brushback pitch" or "buzzing" the batter throws him off and dissuades him from leaning forward to catch an outside pitch.
Watching this made me realize how often I try to take back a life lead and scramble in sf6. I play Manon and I've been hit with way too many fireballs to rush my pace when my best pace is play slow, get a grab and only press if I smell blood.
i really enjoyed the video, but what I loved the most about it is not the comparison between baseball and SF6, the analysis etc... It is that I now understand how baseball works. Thanks very much for this x)
25:27 Man, why’d you have to use a clip from this game as an example of knock on effects, I was there and it was painful (Cubs fan here). Anyway, this vid spoke to my soul, the similarities in Baseball and FGs has stuck out to me recently, and I’m super glad someone was able to put those thoughts into words.
great video. one nitpick: i think leiter talking about pitching inside is not "inside the strike zone," but on the "inside" of the plate, the side closest to the batter. that's why he said lefties think it's risky and you can see them motioning to the side of the strike zone closest to the batter. pitching inside is not always a strike. they can be off the plate "inside" on the batter's hands. it's risky because you can hit the batter or you can not pitch inside enough and give up a big hit.
An inside pitch does not mean that the pitch is inside the strike zone. Inside pitches are closer to the batter, outside pitches are farther away. And inside or outside pitch could be a strike or a ball. If a pitch nearly hits a batters knee it was a "ball inside." If it passes four feet away from the batter it is a "ball outside." A pitch that barely passes through the left or right edge of the zone is an inside or outside strike, depending on whether its closer to the batter or farther. Excellent video, you have a good grasp of baseball considering its rather foreign to you, but I felt a need to make this correction.
Pitching ninja is a great UA-camr to watch if you want to learn more about how pitchers attack. He did a great video about Ohtani vs Trout in the world baseball classic. Down to their last out and the go ahead run at the plate, it's the captain of the U.S. team vs the captain of the Japanese team who both played on the same team in the MLB at that time. It's such a great game and the mental battle is crazy between pitcher and batter. High-low mix ups, working in and out, messing with timing, pitch tunneling (an absolutely crazy concept but you wouldn't really catch unless you're well versed in the sport but pitching ninja does overlays a lot that make it very easy to understand) I would also argue that it has overlap with card games as well like magic but that's a whole different topic.
The funny thing for me is I've always enjoyed street fighter and many other fighting gamws and i only got into baseball a couple of years ago. And the more you explain it the more i realized it was always meant to be it just took me awhile.😂 Great video love it keep up the good work big dog.
I always think about the mantra that you're a successful hitter in baseball if you fail 7/10 times, and how similar that is to having rounds, lives, and games to give in fighting games
Regarding SF6's throw loop issue, for me the problem is a lack of options that beat shimmy and throw, but which would lose to a meaty normal. Delay tech or the new wake up DR will beat the meaty and the throw but lose to a shimmy, and delay low poke will catch their backwalk while blocking a meaty. No universal input or sequence can cover both the throw and the shimmy though, since throws are low end lag enough to beat out back steps and jumps, which is why when a character does have an option against this core gameplay scenario, ie ex air blanka ball, that character's defensive options disproportionately outdo their competition while they don't lose access to that same offensive wake up mix themselves. This kind of mix situation is unique, because unlike cross ups, which can be parried to take out the mental tax, or high/low mix which can be solved with a low block shifted to a high block after a few frames, there is simply no way to option select around the throw/shimmy mix, so we end up with "just take the throw," and a blanka throw looping Japan's best player for an entire set.
Thinking about this from someone who does kickboxing But is like a long tome recreational tennis player who, dabbles in the disgusting world of pickleball watching the euros/copa america right now, I think this is any 1v1-type situation, planning, reading, punishing, play styles, all of that its a lot of stats, a lot of understanding your opponent, etc Rafael nadal has a playstyle, Roger Federer has his own, both players keep this in mind while trying to play within their strenths but to also take advantage of things the other player doesnt do as well. Same if, i dunno, Amanda Nunez was fighting, or habib, fighters with their own strengths and weaknesses that, they cant guess what their opponents will do but they also have to try to keep their opponents guessing And these sports, are also sports of inches and timing. A missed shot can decide a set, missed kick can mean an elbox to the face.
Hearing the phrase, "Take the pitch," made me irrationally happy. I find it so funny that baseball and fighting games have almost exactly the same phrase.
Somehow, despite following baseball for years, I never noticed the obvious similarity in phrasing. But while I was writing this video, the connection kind of went off like an explosion in my head. I can't believe I never picked up on that.
@@DazIsBambothe connection went off like an explosion in your head like an explosion
Lethal league blaze has joined the chatroom
love that game! im so happy theres a discord server for it now
Very good game
@@Kirbbbbbb I'mma need an invite in the future.
Northernlion jumpscare in my fighting game essay
+2
Pitch em with the high low mixup
My jaw DROPPED when I realized baseball has high low mixup 😭
@@heliumpai7627🤯
Literally a thing! Called "changing eye levels" although high-low should be used now lol
High and low, inside out. Tag Team gonna tell you what it’s all about.
@@heliumpai7627We call it “climbing the ladder”
as part of my quarter life crisis I’ve picked up watching baseball as a hobby and i have been thinking about this EXACT point for the past few months, im so glad this video exists
It's funny that I actually recently got into baseball myself as a lifelong fighting game player.
A few more interesting comparisons to make:
Intentionally walking could be seen as something like forcing a use of meter to close the round. Similarly, hitting the batter could be something like using EX DP on the opponent's wake-up, fully unhinged Ken-style.
There's also the "character select" aspect of things like righties vs. southpaws, knuckleballers, underhand pitchers, a hitter's stance, and, lest we forget, the man behind the dish calling the pitches, the catcher.
Overall a really cool comparison with a lot of parallels to draw.
The most interesting part of this video to me as an American is the idea of positioning the pitcher as the attacker. I've always viewed the batter as the attacker since he's the one who actually scores points. But this analogy works better than I thought the other way
Baseball is the only sport (besides cricket) where the defense holds the ball. For the casual viewer, it’s a few moments of action minutes apart. For the avid viewer, it’s 54+ mental chess matches back-to-back.
@@dvizrbaseball and cricket are the only sports* just for the future
i didnt even notice that till you pointed it out. pretty damn cool.
hi. at 19:10 the al leiter conversation about pitching "in" is more than just about throwing in the strike zone, it's about pitching on the inside of the strike zone closer to the hitter.
came down here to say this as well. The risk to this is not just that hitters can turn on the pitch and pull it to their strong side, it's also that you're risking hitting the batter and giving them a free base (and also maybe starting a fight). Bambo's point still stands, but just a bit more nuance
Also, a southpaw pitching a right-handed batter has a greater risk of hitting the batter with an inside pitch.
I like how you highlighted the top row and bottom row, and thought you were going to highlight the right-most column when referring to inside pitching (as most batters are righties)
Ack, you're right! Slight blunder, thank you for pointing it out!
It can also include a pitch out of the strike zone, as long as it's closer to the hitter. Just like a pitch outside can be a ball or a strike, so long as it's on the side further from the batter.
Another fun little parallel is the goofy-ass jargon that both of them have. Worm-burner, shift beater, can of corn, high heat, cheese at the knees, oppo taco, bloop, The Maddux, perfectos, no-nos, TOOTBLAN, FARTSLAM, NOBLETIGER, The White Castle Special, swords, The Mendoza Line, painting, the eephus. All those terms come from baseball and hold meaning to the kinds of people who are as in deep with baseball as you are with fighting games. Just to keep me occupied, here are what all those things mean:
Worm-burner: a pitch or hit that goes directly into the ground between the pitcher and hitter with great force
shift beater: a weak hit to the opposite side of the field from where the batter is positioned, to the space the defense would usually occupy but has chosen to leave vulnerable by shifting defenders towards the areas the hitter is more likely to send the ball
can of corn: an easy-to-catch fly ball. This term apparently originates from a practice common among store clerks in the late 1800s.
high heat: a difficult to hit rising fastball thrown at or just above the top of the strike zone
cheese at the knees: the opposite of high heat, a fastball thrown right at the bottom of the strike zone that is extremely difficult for a hitter to recognize as a strike until it’s too late. I think this term was coined by Pitching Ninja.
oppo taco: an opposite field home run
bloop: a ball that is hit just hard enough to go over the heads of the infield but light enough that the outfielders have no chance of catching it. Almost always results in a single.
The Maddux: a performance in which a pitcher throws a complete game shutout in fewer than 100 pitches. Named after Greg Maddux, who accomplished the feat nearly twice as many times as any other pitcher has in their career.
perfectos: perfect games (games in which a pitcher did not allow any batter to reach base across nine innings)
no-nos: no-hitters (games in which a pitcher did not allow a hit, but may have allowed batters to reach on an error or walk)
TOOTBLAN: Thrown Out On The Basepath Like A Nincompoop. A facetiously named stat for when a baserunner just completely fucks up and it’s entirely his fault.
FARTSLAM: Fielder Allows Runner To Score Like A Moron. Like a TOOTBLAN, but when a fielder completely fucks up instead of a runner.
NOBLETIGER: No Outs Bases Loaded Ending (with) Team Incapable (of) Getting Easy Run. With the bases loaded and no outs, a team is expected to score about 2.25 runs before the inning ends, on average. If they manage to end the inning having scored 0 runs, that’s a notable failure. The acronym is a stretch, because the person coining the term wanted to name the feat after the Detroit Tigers, who did this a lot.
The White Castle Special: a pitcher striking out a batter with three nasty sliders.
swords: another Pitching Ninja term, refers to a swing that a batter tries but fails to check, resulting in a very awkward-looking strike.
The Mendoza Line: a batting average of .200. In reference to Mario Mendoza, a player from the 70s who usually failed to bat above .200 in any given season. (For reference, a good batting average is about .250)
painting: reliably throwing pitches that just barely touch the edge of the strike zone for a called strike.
the eephus: an extremely weak, slow, very hittable pitch thrown with a high arc, intended as a bizarre mixup. From the Hebrew word “efes”, meaning “Nothing”.
Replying so I can read this later
Edit: I read it and it was a fun read!
if some commentator talked about how Punk did a worm-burner half of the FGC would just roll with it like its always been a thing 100%
incredible
Those acronymns have big "fangraphs community research" energy
As someone who loves both baseball and fighting games, I just want to say thank you for making this video. I don’t even have to express how much this video speaks to me, and I would love to see comparisons to other sports in the future.
Shit, that Mike Trout bit almost got me lmao
Honestly I feel like I did too good of an edit that I got scared and added a "hey I'm just joking!!" disclaimer out of fear LOL
@@DazIsBambo fwiw Mike Trout would absolutely EX DP
11:02-11:18 Lmao the thought of “Alright son, do your Ken Bnb’s and meaty okizeme just like I taught you.” is too much! XD
That's the plan for me. Teach them footsies at a young age, then let them know about kara cancels as they get older
This is my perfect future.
My OD reversal, even after I’ve established a modest lead, as soon as my opponent starts applying the slightest amount of pressure: “Put me in, coach! I can do this!!”
This is honestly one of my favorite videos on fighting games ever, it was incredibly insightful
Hardcore baseball fan who is getting into fighting games. I absolutely loved this video.
As soon as I saw the title I immediately thought “pitching is all about mix ups” and you perfectly expressed that! Lol 102 MPH gas at your head followed by a 78 MPH low curve or something is just too much to handle lol
At 18:00 I thought you were about to make the comparison to “high-low” mixups in fighting games.
I’d love to show this video to someone who only understands baseball and not fighting games but I think I’ll have to sit and watch it with them to explain the fighting game jargon.
Great video!
Its also tied to drive impact and jump ins as well
So close! It is a fighting game. ✨️❤️
You've combined two things I love here, banger video. I also love to hear about Brits becoming baseball fans. Good recommendation on the Japan vs Mexico game, that game was awesome
the whole time you were talking about the player who just spams fastballs being compared to Daigo my brain just constantly went "surely they won't throw a sixth time?"
This is officially my favorite SF6 video.
Thank you for the quality content.
I wish I could subscribe twice.
Pretty glad this comparison is getting more traction.
There's this 3rd Strike video about Denjin Ryu that also used the baseball analogy to explain how denjin setups work, probably the first time I heard about it.
Banger video. Never thought I'd sit through 29 minutes of Baseball talk but this was actually super interesting.
I had no idea that the hit the ball square in the like a dragon baseball minigames really is projected in front of the batman in baseball
as a huge fgc and baseball fan, I have wanted to put this idea into words for so long. Appreciate this video a ton!
I enjoyed this a lot! I love it when people draw connections between different kinds of games like this. No matter how different the culture around them is, they're all just games, from Settlers of Catan to Street Fighter to Baseball, and you can understand a lot about each one by studying the others. Also, not that you mentioned it, but as an American soccer fan, I empathize with the experience of loving a popular sport that everyone around me finds weird and confusing.
As someone who is both a baseball superfan (go Dodgers) and an FGC member (Uni specifically) I never thought someone else would exist in this overlap with me lol
I was actually trying to explain to a friend of mine in discord once how a high spinrate slider basically is a mixup given how it breaks low and away to same sided hitters in a way that is hard to lay off of for the batter, or high spin rate 4 seamers above the zone that guys swing underneath because of the lack of drop
I've seen this with other sports as well like squash, tennis, or American football. These sports have some element of mental stack where one side is doing things to get the other side to make a mistake. Once one side makes a mistake, the other side is given the advantage to punish and score.
Great video! Small correction. "Throwing inside" means throwing towards the batter's side of the box. He talks about it being a risky pitch to a left handed pitcher is because at that angle against right handed (majority) batters, if you're off slightly to the left, you've just thrown a fastball right down the middle. If you are off angle slightly to the right, then you run the risk of hitting the batter and just outright losing the at bat.
Caught this too, was going to comment. Nice explanation.
This video reminds me of how I remember people made comparisons between overwatch and basketball; the way it uses time, the desperate attempts teams will make to go into overtime etc.
I've been playing SF6 and MLB The Show and I've been thinking about those parralels a lot. The fastball/changeup/breaking balls mixups are very real, but they're not pure guesses. Just like fighting games, you can increase your success by understanding the risk/reward of situations.
Fellow british baseball fan reporting in! My old man raised me a Boston Red Sox fan, but I've never actually been to a live game...
Hoping my sox play in the next exhibition game down south here, and I may make the trip.
Hoping it happens for you! I'm not counting on the Brewers (my team) coming over any time soon, however.
I love when Europeans get into sports outside of the usuals of their region. As a Canadian we get Hockey like crazy but ive been sooooo into American Football. I remember a discussion I had with someone I met from the UK who was super into hockey and not much soccer. He reminded me of many cool things I took for granted about hockey. This whole Baseball fighting game thing I had never thought of, and this video is really cool because of it.
I am so glad someone made a video about this. I’m a college pitcher who picked up MK a couple years ago and it was so cool to find the parallels between the two. You did a great job of explaining the pitcher-batter matchup. Well done.
My biggest anxiety about this video was in trying to explain baseball for the first time to an audience that may know nothing about baseball, so, I massively appreciate hearing that from a college-level player!
I’m a long time fighting game player and I’m about to go to a baseball game tomorrow.
(I think I went to one once when I was a kid but honestly can’t remember)
Thanks for making it make so much sense!
Great video!! I'm an inspiring game dev and hearing about the psychology of implying pressure to your opponent is FASCINATING. I love hearing about how players balance out risk and reward in just milliseconds through a deep understanding of the mechanics and psychology.
Keep up the great work! It's helping me understand so much more about how human brains work and get to use that for my games!!
I always love reading comments from game devs because of what you said! I just like to put words to what's going on in my head, but it's even better that people end up finding it useful!
It's a good day when I find a half hour UA-cam video about the absolute most niche concept that's been plaguing my brain for years because it's so niche that you can't even talk to people about it.
ALSO! Baseball is very heavily influential on shonen anime. There's obviously the baseball sports anime but a lot of that story telling dynamic within baseball transfers over to your dragon balls and your narutos and so on. Large gaps in action for tension with quick bursts of action and the entire course of the game, no matter the score, can change in a heart beat.
This video is top tier. This channel is top tier. Good shit fellow Brit!
I think the idea of the threat of an option being more effective than the option itself is probably best explained through the lens of grapplers. If you watch snake eyes play gief or even potemkin, he often gets more damage off his strike game precisely BECAUSE his opponent is so scared of the command throw.
Baseball is one of the few sports i really have interest in so this video was a real treat, glad to see these parallels being made this way
I often think about 'now you hit him with the brain destroyer' when I try and mix someone up
Great video. Someone uses games design to make me care about sports is becoming one my favourite types of video.
This was an amazing video with so much research and insight. Looking forward to more from you!
in my first fighting game video, I made this exact comparison!! very cool video, man!! Thanks for getting deep into it!!
Fighting games have taught me so much about game theory, and I think that Northernlion bit at the beginning describes game theory almost perfectly. Since getitng more into fighting games, I've been looking more for these strategies in sports, which makes them so much more fun to watch.
I think these things aren't always apparent to everyone at first because we have to spend so much time just learning the game and honing our skills in the first place (how to throw or hit a ball, how to do your input combos and learning the matchups, etc). Only after you have an appropriate skill level does game theory start to make all the difference between plebs and pros.
I usually explain it as speed chess. There are scenarios to train for, but those same scenarios can be tricky setups for something 4 moves down the road too.
I could make a similar video on racing, sales pitches, music or story-telling.
Strategising skills carry over to pretty much anything where strategising occurs.
You have to make someone believe and take advantage of the story you're telling them, that's pretty much all of it.
From what you mentioned, music is the most interesting one. I agree with you, but I can't immediately put it into words. Hopefully someone (YOU) does actually make that video eventually - especially since fighting game players love using music for analogy
@@DazIsBambo I'm not gonna make that video, way too much research for my brain.
Maybe it's kind of a moot point to make but improvisation takes a lot of thinking ahead and playing off of both what you play and what others play. Often you think ahead together through cues and body language which can be likened to conditioning except you're cooperating rather than trying to catch someone out.
I remember back when I played Smash Ultimate Competitively at a beginner-intermediate level that I developed a skill of seeing the opponents habits and exploiting that. What I found fascinating about this is that this skill of mind found its way into other areas of my life, like noticing at a football game how each team would respond to each other after a specific interaction. Seeing this video go further in depth about the uneven nature of duelist competition is a very satisfying thing to see, because I had largely forgotten about this connection I made for myself being realized in the greater community!
17:00
This is the equivalent to throwing a few deep balls to keep the defense honest in the NFL. The threat of the deep ball opens up the running game options. Also the reverse is constantly pounding the rock and so the threat of the run opens up the play action down the field
This is a point I’ve been unable to articulate for a while. Great video!
My dad took over coaching my little league team after our first coach was unreliable and he taught me mind games really early. He taught me that generally a lot of batters like to take the first pitch, which is absolutely valid...but when the others take the first pitch the pitcher gets comfortable and tends to throw his best pitch first so "if you can see it, and can hit it...might as well" which makes pitchers aware of you stepping up to the plate as threatening. You can also crowd the plate and dare the pitcher to control their throw enough to not clip you which can net you a free ball or base and if they call you on it you can pull the ball for a base hit.
For a ubiquitous example in SF of having a threat create mental stack: jump-ins. 99% of the time, good players especially pros, will anti-air you but if busy their minds with grounded options, the unexpexted jump-in will at least give you plus frames as they take the safer option and block rather than try to anti-air.
this totally reminds me of that BrianF clip where he says fighting games are more like chess than rock paper scissors
this was a fantastic video, i am a lover of traditional sports and esports.
finding the parallels between them is so much fun to explain to people.
I recently made a new friend and she introduced me to valorant and its a 5v5 game so I always compare it to basketball and my Time as a point guard.
When i play, i am there to set up my teammates for success. You can't tell me grim-walling my raze up so she can shoot ppl on the plant site is the same as an olley-oop cause i fucking feel like chris paul when i do it lol.
or when I load up with randoms and if we all know to play our roles we can communicate without explicitly talking.
As someone who doesnt experience baseball in any way, shape, or form, wow.
Very insightful video, I never would have guessed that the sport you were referring to a few weeks ago would be baseball! Also, I still feel the burn after that sick call-out against my shimmy, thanks for the feature xD
I want to start this out by saying this. You have opened my mind to a line of thinking I had not previously considered. Great vid.
I have just one thing. Having baseball explained to me by a British person as a baseball loving American was a trip, man. It was an absolute ride for a second there! I did not have that on my bingo card for 2024. You explained everything great! Please don't take this as criticism.
You have me just picturing an off speed pitcher metaphorically hitting a heavy button every time we see Change Up or how great Grappler players hold the same sort of mythical status as a good knuckle ball pitcher.... what heck... I could go on and on with these metaphors and comparisons.
i really like the strategy of both the most, which is why i love both. baseball is my fav sport when it comes to the strategy. and fgs are my fav esport for the same reason. baseball and fighting games can be as simple as "hit the good button/throw the good pitch", and as complex as these crazy strings/pitch sequences with a crazy finisher that gets the SO or the KO. this hit both of my super niches well. good watch!!
Amazing video, might even start watching baseball now 😂
Was getting tired of the rock-paper-scissors analogy, definitely gonna use your points in the future!
If TrueRGM does the post season this year (october), his videos are the perfect format to watch baseball.
This video makes a lot of sense to me, coming from someone who grew up playing baseball and just recently got into fighting games.
As somebody who was playing baseball since as young as 4 and is now getting into fighting games in their 30s, this video is incredible. Thank you for this.
I'm the opposite. Been playing fighting games since about 6 years old and only started playing baseball myself at age 22. Wishing you luck!
This video actually opened my third eye, so damn good
If the batter just knew delay tech they’d win smh
As someone who's both a hardcore gamer and a multi-sport athlete I've always tried to explain to anyone who could listen how understanding the psychology of sports helped me become a better gamer. Nobody ever listened because they never cared about sports but I knew the secret. I think this video is great and I'm glad I'm not the only person who thinks this way.
it's crazy how this video alone made me wanna learn how to play SF6
Really good job man
I saw it, also that mid-level Testament's pressure was shocking, no wonder you got out
Brother... 😅
At 19:44 he also may be referring to "Inside" as "close to the batter, in the strikezone" ie the 741 on the numpad - to a righthanded batter. Still, an inside fastball in THIS case is a strike, but an inside pitch can be too far inside also be a ball. This pitch a "brushback pitch" or "buzzing" the batter throws him off and dissuades him from leaning forward to catch an outside pitch.
Watching this made me realize how often I try to take back a life lead and scramble in sf6. I play Manon and I've been hit with way too many fireballs to rush my pace when my best pace is play slow, get a grab and only press if I smell blood.
i really enjoyed the video, but what I loved the most about it is not the comparison between baseball and SF6, the analysis etc...
It is that I now understand how baseball works. Thanks very much for this x)
Another great video, amazing job Daz!!
My first video i watch from you! And now im enlightened, SF6 IS baseball!!
New viewer here. Great video. I don’t play fighting games anymore, but I found this piece really enlightening and thought-provoking.
25:27 Man, why’d you have to use a clip from this game as an example of knock on effects, I was there and it was painful (Cubs fan here).
Anyway, this vid spoke to my soul, the similarities in Baseball and FGs has stuck out to me recently, and I’m super glad someone was able to put those thoughts into words.
13 mins in, finally hearing the crossover advice
felt like i had to wait forever to hear what a baseball player was going to say about the game
Fascinating vid. Gotta say I was never interested in Baseball but this vid might have changed that. Keep up the great vids Daz !
My only experience with Baseball is watching FLCL and Samurai Champloo, but... this made a lof of freaking sense, actually.
After daigo famously got thrown 5 times in a row by Phenom, now he's an example of doing it to others. How the tables have turned
More people need to see this
great video. As a huge fan of both i often use baseball and fighting game analogies for many different things
Brother this video is on the level of Core-A gaming, and I'm not just saying that because he also had a memorable baseball themes analogy.
great video. one nitpick: i think leiter talking about pitching inside is not "inside the strike zone," but on the "inside" of the plate, the side closest to the batter. that's why he said lefties think it's risky and you can see them motioning to the side of the strike zone closest to the batter. pitching inside is not always a strike. they can be off the plate "inside" on the batter's hands. it's risky because you can hit the batter or you can not pitch inside enough and give up a big hit.
19:31 an inside pitch actually means a pitch xlose ti the batter. Its meant to jam the batter and can refer to a ball or a strike.
This reminded me of One Outs. Maybe I should rewatch it.
Yeah you should, it's really fucking good
I always thought baseball was boring... until now?
Wow I can't believe you spoke to Mike Trout!
Street Fighter 6 is baseball?
Nha actually based street fighter after baseball
An inside pitch does not mean that the pitch is inside the strike zone. Inside pitches are closer to the batter, outside pitches are farther away. And inside or outside pitch could be a strike or a ball. If a pitch nearly hits a batters knee it was a "ball inside." If it passes four feet away from the batter it is a "ball outside." A pitch that barely passes through the left or right edge of the zone is an inside or outside strike, depending on whether its closer to the batter or farther. Excellent video, you have a good grasp of baseball considering its rather foreign to you, but I felt a need to make this correction.
Pitching ninja is a great UA-camr to watch if you want to learn more about how pitchers attack. He did a great video about Ohtani vs Trout in the world baseball classic.
Down to their last out and the go ahead run at the plate, it's the captain of the U.S. team vs the captain of the Japanese team who both played on the same team in the MLB at that time.
It's such a great game and the mental battle is crazy between pitcher and batter. High-low mix ups, working in and out, messing with timing, pitch tunneling (an absolutely crazy concept but you wouldn't really catch unless you're well versed in the sport but pitching ninja does overlays a lot that make it very easy to understand)
I would also argue that it has overlap with card games as well like magic but that's a whole different topic.
The funny thing for me is I've always enjoyed street fighter and many other fighting gamws and i only got into baseball a couple of years ago. And the more you explain it the more i realized it was always meant to be it just took me awhile.😂 Great video love it keep up the good work big dog.
I just started playing SF6 and this video got me to understand the mindgames a lot better
12:39
Take the throw - Take the pitch
Love this comparison and that interview bit was funny
I always think about the mantra that you're a successful hitter in baseball if you fail 7/10 times, and how similar that is to having rounds, lives, and games to give in fighting games
Great video!
I dont know anything about baseball but i enjoyed the video still
3:40 or Dominican. Like Mena
Regarding SF6's throw loop issue, for me the problem is a lack of options that beat shimmy and throw, but which would lose to a meaty normal.
Delay tech or the new wake up DR will beat the meaty and the throw but lose to a shimmy, and delay low poke will catch their backwalk while blocking a meaty.
No universal input or sequence can cover both the throw and the shimmy though, since throws are low end lag enough to beat out back steps and jumps, which is why when a character does have an option against this core gameplay scenario, ie ex air blanka ball, that character's defensive options disproportionately outdo their competition while they don't lose access to that same offensive wake up mix themselves.
This kind of mix situation is unique, because unlike cross ups, which can be parried to take out the mental tax, or high/low mix which can be solved with a low block shifted to a high block after a few frames, there is simply no way to option select around the throw/shimmy mix, so we end up with "just take the throw," and a blanka throw looping Japan's best player for an entire set.
Would love to see a part 2 with more of this!
Thinking about this from someone who does kickboxing
But is like a long tome recreational tennis player who, dabbles in the disgusting world of pickleball watching the euros/copa america right now, I think this is any 1v1-type situation, planning, reading, punishing, play styles, all of that its a lot of stats, a lot of understanding your opponent, etc
Rafael nadal has a playstyle, Roger Federer has his own, both players keep this in mind while trying to play within their strenths but to also take advantage of things the other player doesnt do as well.
Same if, i dunno, Amanda Nunez was fighting, or habib, fighters with their own strengths and weaknesses that, they cant guess what their opponents will do but they also have to try to keep their opponents guessing
And these sports, are also sports of inches and timing. A missed shot can decide a set, missed kick can mean an elbox to the face.
Damn I didn't realize that Street Fighter players were living the Strive DP > RC nightmare against the entire cast on wakeup
this actually made me get baseball for a bit, i get it now
As someone who recently got into baseball, this is an unlikely comparison that I love.