One thing about mirror dwelling. A friend of mine did a research paper on that and a bunch of other things. He concluded using a mirror is a way to compensate for the lack of perception, spatial awareness and feel of yourself. It becomes extremely natural then to use the mirror as a complement to the lack of these senses that VR limits. To me it makes perfect sense and I think that once you're more comfortable within VR and with your own setup/tracking. You kinda like "going back" of not using the mirror because you're not as sense deprived.
This is how I've described it to people who ask. It's really does make so much sense and it aggravates me a little to see people shit on it! It's a mix between the "oh my god look my body moves when I move" thing that enraptures all of us the first time we play VR, and also a compensation for lack of vision. When you think about it, VR has been a safehaven for a lot of socially wary or delayed people. I equate sitting in front of a mirror to sitting in the corner of the room-somewhere where nobody is able to sneak up on you, and you can also take stock of people approaching and the goings-on of an instance. There's too much new stimulus going on within the confines of your vision to be able to accurately monitor your surroundings, and the mirror helps assist that greatly. I found myself moving away from them more and more as I got acquainted with VR and how it feels. For fullbody users, another aspect of mirrors was to monitor how their tracking is doing, which the personal mirror helped out with. World mirrors however, with their placements on walls and in corners, still provide that "safe" respite. I seldom play with mirrors at all when with friends now, but if I know nobody in the lobby, the mirror is a comfortable aid and a nice provided area for me to sit and adjust to the vibes of the social setting.
honestly i just turn on some some music, sit in front of a mirror and completely zone out for hours without talking to anyone, most of the time in a private world, i just like to forget anything exists
Ironically, I’m a woman that uses a male avatar exclusively (Deku). I’m modest and tomboy. I don’t like the female models, they don’t represent me well. Too slutty, thicc, or egirl. Has nothing to do with my sexuality. (I’m married to a man) As a character, I feel Deku conveys the approachable, kind, trustworthy, nerd at a glance. Since they can’t see the real me. Been him for almost 4 years. At this point my friends would get confused if I changed, and I’d feel weird being anything else in VRChat
Personally that's my issue with most female avatars. I've had a hard time looking for a modest looking avatar that fits my style. Most of them look too slutty, have awkward physbones, or are too short.
honestly same except I mainly use female avis with frilly dresses or pretty veils since I both like the modesty and the flowy-ness of the physics (and it makes me so sad that to quest players I'm a lot less flowy)
Derafog and Phia are some of my favorite VRC Content Creators because they cover VR topics from the POV of people who actively interact with the community. They give everything a fair shake and state the flaws of VRChat but still try to show the outside audience the beauty that comes with a game as unique as VRChat.
ive noticed the same answers across multiple games and it mostly boils down to customization. men dont get that many options when it comes to the look and feel, women do.
My own answer is simple “You can be whatever the hell you wanna be in this game. So I chose a avatar with giant Honkers” I could say something about customization or whatever but for me its the freedom of being whatever I wish
You nailed it about male avis, I rarely find a male avi I enjoy wearing and when I do find one I just stick to that one forever lol Also agreed on the content made. VRChat is such a creatively open sandbox, I want to push myself to make more content through it and I'd love to see more creative projects spring from this space because there's opportunities to really turn it into something great! Fantastic vid dude
i just made my own avatar since i couldnt find any male avis i like lmao. it took me many many hours of work to make it though, so i get that not everyone wants to do that
Why such a sexualized avatar? He wants it to be casual, yet the avatar is so pornographic, it's design so catering to male desires. I don't have a problem with that, but I am bothered by the dishonesty of him not admitting the obvious: He likes boobs, the titilation he feels when he looks down and sees his avatars nipples visibly shaping his characters shirt. I feel like some of these men have not been with a woman for so long, if ever at all that they cope with this sexual frustration by immersing themselves in VR with sexualized anime women.
I had a conversation with my roommate about my first experience. Told her "it's just a bunch of screaming children. Was hoping to drink and chat with people but it was all yelling and memes that go over my head." She wanted to try so I gave her the quest. Couple hours later I just got a "yup same"
I'm glad to see another person who gives a damn about optimization. Not a fan of the edgy aesthetic of e-boys and e-girls, but I can always appreciate when someone has put effort into not selfishly ruining everyone's experience just so they can look fancy. And about the female avatars thing: the same can be said for any game that lets you pick your character's sex, I honestly don't get why there's still people asking such a basic question like they've never played an MMO before.
Oh yeah with avatar optimization for Quest... Questies might never know how flashy/metallic they appear for PC users😂I got called an Eboy for no reason and was totally confused for like two years before I got a good PC with RTX3070ti. Dang, I thought it was just regular black sporty clothes
Tbh I just enable shield with super strict custom settings and just show avis for friends and or some people who might have a cool or funny avi i wanna see. It works fine on quest, and if i ever upgrade my pc to be worthy for vr, where I will have much more lenient optimization limits for avis and worlds, I'll likely continue the same tradition. Not that Optimization isn't a good rule of thumb to follow, but I dont really care too much, and even if so I mainly just crunch textures down, weed out certain things as needed, as well as generate impostors, optimization is way more complex to balance with your avis features.
Also, for my opinion on Fem vs Masc avis, I don't really know why it matters very much. People have an option to wear an avi they like, and I don't see a reason why they have to be gated based on gender, and id rather focus on actual issues with vrc avis such as crashers and public erp avis.
So as someone who started playing for about 5 months now, this is my experience with VR chat. (note I am on PC) when I first joined it was a bit chaotic. Kids everywhere and I didn’t really know where to go. I ran into somebody and I told him that I was new and they brought me to an avatar world where now I am mainly just a duck. I traveled around and I end up meeting someone else and that person made me meet their friends and now I made a giant friend group with a bunch of cool people. It’s definitely a place where people who have been friends for a long time online meet up kind of in person. There is a dark side on VR chat, but let’s be honest what online media does not have a dark side and have gross people on it. The kids have been mixed for me. On one side have been actually pretty chill and funny goofy little kids while the other half are just being obnoxious just to annoy everyone. But one of my biggest complaints is how I literally met a five-year-old on there! Like parents should not be laying their kids have VR’s on my opinion and getting on VR chat. A lot of the avatars are also a mix for me as well. You have your memes, anime sexual, nonsexual, furry etc. it is hard just to find a normal character though. One of the reasons why I kind of want to start 3D modeling characters so people can have normal looking characters. Overall, I do recommend it but just like every public online space it’s going to be crazy.
Plus everything is so damn expensive about VRChat. Getting a solid VR headset and controllers, getting a rig that can run VR smooth enough that it's comfortable (plus gotta compensate for the nigh guarantee of horribly optimised avatars and worlds), you need enough space in wherever you live, you need solid internet connection for the sake of comfort and nerves, plus if you're not comfortable with any public avatars, it can be a couple hundred buckaroos for a _template_ and even more for one tailored to what you want from an avatar.
ive played VRC since like 2019 and i stay far away from VRC content because its all drama or the bad side of VRC. but i cant resist watching your videos amazing job! edit: the puzzle idea is an amazing idea! i have pretty bad anxiety and have a hard time interacting with people first unless im drinking. thank you frog!
there are to PC games that I play, Terrors of Nowhere and Slash co. they are horror though but not that bad and ways to make it less terrifying. I'm not a giant fan of horror and can play these on full. Slash Co s more cooperative n finding things for everyone to escape. while Terrors kind of works a bit independently most of the time. These worlds are PC only so the majority of players are over the age of 18. but both games you can get a feel for the lobby before trying to talk or no talk at all.
I love the term "Social Platform". It's often like hopping in a telegram group with your international friends and just chatting and talking. Vrchat is the same, you and your friends chill and talk, but with the addition of body language, cool avatars, and beautiful worlds or games to play
what about the groups that RP like DND? people may find adult pretend cringe but playing as a stormtrooper vs other people on worlds built for cinematics is INSANE. ive enjoyed every minute and mostly play VRC only to do ACTUAL roleplay groups that tell stories in a Immersive way.
@@nidgithm ye just Join a Open RP or find someone in a RP group. A couple I can name off mind that are public are Meatrack (a cyberpunk theme) or Purple Lotus. Just find the Groups in the "group" search in vrc and they always open group sessions
@@nidgithm The Mortisian Kingdom is a fantasy 1920's RP group that has been around for about 4 years now, I only mention it because I DM for it. There is another that is far more fantasy focused and is good but I honestly can't remember the name of it at this time. It always depends on your tastes of what kind of RP you like doing. Some posters exists in worlds for groups.
"why do people use a mirror" the simple answer that i'm surprised not many people think about is your senses. In person, when you're hanging out with friends in a room, you know where they are, you have full vision, you can hear them move and breath and know exactly where they are. In VRC, you completely lose most of those senses. You have a lower field of vision, you don't get to hear and easily figure out where everyone is off of tiny little things. Using a mirror helps you know/feel where people are around you without having to turn your whole head and headset just to get a small glance of the person next to you. It's just all about senses. I've had plenty of moments where me and friends are sitting around a table in VRC just chatting and it's perfectly fine when we're all in line of sight of eachother
VRC vet since 2017 myself, and yeah, this pretty much tracks. Glad I stumbled onto your channel, you do a good job of video essay content like this, I always like seeing other creators perspectives on things
do u know why i have the words "UG" on my name? i've been wondering for so long what it means when it suddenly appeared when i logged into vrchat recently
I LOVED this video, and I agree there should be more normal, or at least positive VRChat content. An idea I thought about you could try is a video about the New Player experience, what it's like, interviews of people about what their experience was like as a new player, and how both VRChat and the community can improve it for new players!
Truthfully I choose to use non-human and non-humanoid avatars entirely. I enjoy funky lil animals, froggy taxi being one of my favorites, and often use a minecraft bee or plate of pancakes shaped like a bunny to express myself as. For me it can also be pointed at the fact that I am queer, I am genderfluid and sometimes don't want to appear as masculine, feminine, male, female, or even androgynous. I just want to be.
whats your thoughts on what I call "pavlov's femboy" where straight guys use fem avi's for the same reason you do (and I do) and get a lot of positive attention for it, that IRL guys rarely get, and it leads to positive reinforcement of female characteristics? I have trans friends, I have gay friends and I have seen VR chat break a few egg's, but I have also seen a few straight guys be "only gay in VR" kinda stuff, I don't really have an opinion on it, but think its interesting, and should be explored.
I feel like the opportunities that VRC provides for neurological and behavioral research are so plentiful, yet because of not only VRC's reputation and misunderstood community, but also because of its still relative nicheness in the world of gaming, most people, especially actual people who would look into those topics, either don't know it exists or look at the most popular content and see that it's just "the meme game with a bunch of erp". There's so many things we could discover about the human mind through VRC. Being "only gay in VR" or, as you said, positive reinforcement of feminine traits is just a somewhat normalized thing in VRC, but IRL that sounds like an anomaly, or someone just trying to make excuses for their sexuality or gender identity. Forgive me for using your comment as an outlet for something that's been on my mind, it just reminded me of that thought process.
I'd bet most people would never think about gender without a safe way to explore it, but once they have a safe outlet they'd much prefer something outside their assigned gender presentation. Not even fully trans, just bucking the gender norms they are expected to adhere to. Although trans people do find out that way too.
I wanted to start by just saying I love your content. It feels so rare to find the content simply going over the day-to-day workings of vrchat. That everything isn't about sex and there are plenty of ways to experience the game that isn't full of predators or trolls or people trying to crash your game. It's nice to see someone simply talk about simple interactions that can happen and how those are the most fun that you'll have. The people that we meet, talk to, and experience things with that's what keeps me and I am willing to assume any others coming back to VR chat over and over again. I really do hope for the best when it comes to future content on the platform. It's creators like yourself that give me that hope that we can maybe see at least a little bit more content that isn't mostly focused on the worst parts. I wish you and anyone who reads this the very best and anyone else who decides to find their way down the digital pathway VR chat maybe one day we'll run into each other.
I am looking into avatars from a social scientific standpoint atm and I do find the argument of males trending toward female avatars due to lack of choice unsatisfactory, at least from my perspective. The only survey we have to go by for long-term vrc users is the study by luidmila bredkhina that she does with nem in the japanese scene each year, and that found a wide resonance in the western scene as well - which leads me to roughly generalize a sociodemographic 80/20 or generous 70/30 sex disparity (biological male to biological female - I am aware of everything across, outside or inbetween gender-wise). Avi creation follows supply and demand, and the demand for less edgy, optimized and proportionate male avatars (if I go by what people bring up when questioned) should be incredibly high. I have been in vrc since 2018. I interview people in this scene for my work, and have mostly gotten the exact same answer you have given in regard to avis. I have also interviewed well known avatar creators of this scene, who explained that their male avatars never sold well. Bad Male Avatars are an effect of self-selection and supply/demand. The root cause has to be somewhere else, and I find the shifting of blame to creators doesn't reveal it. I don't find the typical gamer answer of "having something pretty to look at" helpful either to explain the choice. That might have been a driving reason to choose a nightelf priestess in WoW, but with the level of embodiment in VRC there is clearly a deeper allure to feeling and seeing yourself in a female body.
maybe, but it's the case for me. This video really is just me speaking my thoughts, and i'm sure there's deeper info I don't know into everything. I haven't seen a male avi I like in years, and the old avis i used to use feel too out of date now. so now im in male avi limbo, where i keep my eye out, but they never deliver how i want. i'm friends with alot of those avi creators and can honestly say their male avis fall under exactly what i was talking about, with just not feeling right, because they all use the same bases, and same faces. then they style them like its a female avi. there's exceptions, but they always fail in one aspect i don't like... Maybe there's a phycological thing going on where certain things are socially acceptable for women and not men and that effects our perception of avis. I really don't know... just some thoughts, all i know for sure, is i'm still waiting for that male avi I like, the lethal company avatar can only bring me so far... or robots, i like robots too.
@@Derafog I am a robot as well, I think we can all agree that those are the supreme choice anyways ^^ also no shade, its perfectly valid to choose what feels best from the choices that are available to you. I mostly search for the underlying structural reasons that lead to the point where the avatar market is currently - and why it doesn't seem to change
Problem I can see is that, yes, there defo is demand, no one's willing to pay so much money for an avatar as for a bottom tier VR headset and those who do, are perfectly fine with the edgier, more revealing and anime-styled avatars.
It's probably got a whole lot to do with men being oppressed by patriarchal standards. There's a lot of pressure to "act like a man". Being able to drop all that sounds similar to what business men do when they visit a dominatrix. It's not a horny thing, it's a stress management thing. Men have to perform and never complain. No shit they want to get away from that and just unwind. It's like going on a small vacation. Obviously, I could be super effing wrong, but it's worth considering.
@@asteria9963 There are authors like Patrick Galbraith and Luidmila Bredkhina who write about the topic in this way, definately not off the mark I'd say!
Instead of the classical "the dark side of vrc" bullshit everyone should watch this. Everyone ive spoken to just sees the bad and thinks that that is all it is, its sad
I played VR chat for only a few months back in 2018, but during that time I was able to find friends and get all that cozy experience of communicating/spending time in a friendly company. But I miss the immersion in VR chat so much that I would like to buy a VR kit, but it is too expensive, which makes me very sad...
And thanks to VR Chat I was able to talk to foreigners for the first time, and now I can communicate fluently in English and partly in Japanese. This was my first step in communicating with someone not from my country.
the game is a way for many to express themselvess, and create things that normally you would never see in a lifetime. and meeting new poeple and hanging around those who you deem worthy, from all around the world.. is just amazing and i believe there is an audience for evrery kind of person.
Such interesting, honest and creative content. I’m so far removed and unaware of this world and VR in general, but you tell a great story and make the subject approachable for such a wide audience. I’m genuinely impressed, man. Love what you’re doing.
I've got maybe 8 hours on VRChat. All of them spent at stuff like VR music events, with live DJs and stuff where I'd never be able to see their stuff in person 'cos they're not in the UK and don't tour. I know it has some awesome stuff on it but it feels basically impossible to find friends within the game because I only ever go on it to do stuff I can't do with my IRL friends and you have to sift through all the kids and annoying people, so this video pretty much hits the nail on the head for me. I don't have a problem with ERP shit, hell I'm no stranger to doing odd things because they're either fun or because I get lonely but I genuinely find that if I boot up VRChat and step into a populated world it's like 30-40% kids, 20% people like me who just seem lost and then leave after nothing really happens and then the rest are a mix of folks that have been playing for ages and just ignore new players or people who saw the funny anime girl tiddies and just wanna have vaguely horny bro chats which instantly icks me out.
I mean heck, it's been 2 years since I last played. I still watch VRChat stuff from people who seem a bit more...normal? Or do content where they just talk to people. Azeal is one that pops up on my timeline here and there, interviewing people about their lives. I used to like Drumsy but his stuff got a bit old. ChrisQuitsReality is among the "troll" types of videos that I do like, but really only because he uses full-body-tracking and actually has some interesting shit like taking a poledancing class and stuff. 60% of the videos are cringe but some of it is kinda neat. But yeah. I'm hesitant to come back every time I see it in my library and thinking "hmm...I could...nah" - every time I just see the usual thing happening. I awkwardly wander around trying to chat to people and it's either like when you're the guy at a party who only knows one person or most of the people in the lobby end up being annoying/terrible because everyone that isn't that already has established groups they vibe with.
Amazing video. Loved it. I just got into VRChat about 2 months ago and your video came up in my feed early on because I was researching about it. I was so curious. At the time, a lot of what you talked about here sounded like a foreign language to me it was all so new. It came up in my feed again tonight and it was so fun to re-watch and understand so much more. I’m fascinated with VRChat and how endless the possibilities are. Thank you for creating such good content!
As a massive VRC Degenerate. I do relate to the latter half of the video abit, Man i wish some of the content for this game was more... Normal or just cool shit, This game has so much space to do so much cool shit. I just wish more people seeked it out so more people made it and didnt just go for the normal typical Degen thrist bait content. Great video tho dude.
I use VRC exclusively for "cool shit." Once you go digging there's plenty to find. Organism and Terracotta Valley have been getting some traction as of late due to a video by Logan From Earth. My favorite world is probably Island One. A 1:1 scale model of an O'Neil cylinder habitat in VR is nothing short of mind bending. And there's basically no examples of rotating space habitats in games so it's that or nothing.
I'm glad to see more people talk about the VRChat streamers who are taking advantage of parasocial relationships and doing some really weird things to obtain and retain viewers. I don't think this is a VRchat only issue, but VRchat makes it easier to exploit it without having to show your face (and in some cases without using your real voice). VRchat streamers are also probably less likely to get outright banned for wearing an avatar with skimpy clothing, as opposed to a RL person. Streamers who abuse parasocial relationships are dangerous. VRchat isn't the cause of it, but it's certainly been given the perception that people on VRchat are like this.
VRChat is such a experience unique to every single person, explaining it just doesn't work you can try what people tell you they experience but that doesn't work out everytime. I think if a person truly wants to experience the game as a person with over 1k if not 2k hours has. You have to give it time, like aged wine, that includes a good place for the wine or well collective of people/friends better the place/collective better the wine/experience. This video's point is somewhat obviuse to players who have thousands of hours but the newer once can be almost like a revelation, at least I'd like to thinks so. Like this one alot.
I wrote the the comment halway through the video, I very much agree with the second point. I wish someone would cover RP itself or groups, be it futuristic, realistic medieval one or just pure fantasy. Like we have streamers in our groups not big ones but very talented same goes with avatar creators, roleplayers/borderline actors. It truly makes me sad seeing the outlook on one of my favourite games when it comes to VR, and sure it has and attracts a lot of gooners and degens, some people that are normal have a side to them that could be called "degenerate" but the who hasn't. As long as you surround yourself with people who either don't do it at all or keep it so private even their close friends don't know. Who cares. Again I reinstate this video is amazingly put together. (I hope it exceeds your video about the more then ugly part of VRC "community", honestly the word community is a stretch in this context.)
It's because we all know you are treated better as a female character by men and women. Women have their guard down, and men in most part, find it visually appealing.
i love these, so much. like genuinely. actually keeps me aware of what the hell is happening in VRC, and probably the biggest reason why im terrified of going into public servers (besides the fear of someone jumping into the server and ripping the code off of an avatar)
Wanted to say, nice video. I also wanted to add in my opinion to Lolathon and GreatMoonAroma. Their names are DarrenZues and CyberChimpTV, both do the same as the other but just are lesser known content creators, I think.
Loved and totally respect this video. 💙 You really nailed the problem-VRChat is often seen as just provocative avatars and chaotic people, but there's so much more under the surface. It's a place where people make genuine connections, find a sense of belonging, and create a community that’s as real as any other. That’s honestly why we’re here, y’know? We really believe it IS real and meaningful. It's nice to come across a video that makes us feel understood in a cool way as some of the creators who care about this space. Thanks for shining a light on what VRChat is really about. - Hash Studios Team
Great video! As someone who has only played on desktop and wants to look up more videos about VR Chat, the most famous ones usually never show it in a good light. Which sucks because from when I played I met the coolest people around the world.
As a minor, I disagree with Age Separation. Mainly because I don't enjoy being with people my age on VRC because they're all brainrotted skibidi toilet fans. It's insufferable. The premise is great but people like me would be stuck in virtual madness with the hellhounds we call Quest Users.
You are so spot on about everything in this video. My Biggest thing is that VRchat has and can do so much good for people be it ALWAYS gets overshadowed by all the negativity about the planform. Every time there is a video talking about the good side of the platform the comments are just fill with " YEA BUT WHAT ABOUT THIS THING THAT HAPPENS IN THE GAME!?"
The game is very special to me there's a level of customization unparalleled by any other game in existence. I started playing vrchat for a laugh when it was new. But from the people I've met, groups I've been apart of and events that I've attended the game grew on me making me realise that it's so much more than what it initially appears to be. The game is the people you meet and the friends you make surrounded by infinite creativity.
that's one hell of a good video man. That problem also affected me; I have many different groups of friends and some of them that are not into the topic make assumptions about me having many hours in vrchat. I try to treat it as a joke and laugh with them but man, all I do is hang out with buds, laugh with them and have a good time. That's all. also wtf you are so underrated Mr. Derafrog you deserve more attention!!
Im really happy I found videos about vrchat like yours, I think phia was the first good vrchat channel I found, cause it showed me so much about how fu and amazing this game is, what it *really* is, like everyone else, my first experience wasnt really great, I think I probably just went to the black cat (big mistake) and to some avatar worlds and then just mever played again for months, but when I saw how amazing the game truly was and went to worlds I saw online I actually had so much fun and found so many amazing people! And im actually really thankful for that (did multiple nights sleepy at 6 am or not sleeping at all because of how much fun I was having) another big thing for me is that im a really big introvert, i love people but im always to scared to talk and although that still happens often and I sometimes just spend like 30 min in vrc just awkwardly trying to get comfortable enough to talk vrchat actually really helps with getting me to be less scared to talk to people, you can be whatever you want to be (pretty much) and well if u do anything wrong/something bad happens you can just leave, close the game or block bad people. And also, I actually "discovered" some month ago that I'm trans (been thinking about it for like 2 years but it was too scary) and vrchat lets me be who I really want to be l, theres even an amazing world for trans people with amazing people there (theres often a bit too much people for me tho so I sometimes cant manage to talk to anyone) so really, thank you vrchat for giving me so many precious memories
Honestly, you make a good point, especially how Vrchat trolling/funny moments are more likely to attract kids than adults. In my own experience on vrchat, kids are not only annoying but repeat the same jokes over and over again. Harassing others and calling people who are in their 20’s-30’s pedo’s as a joke, not realizing how hurtful and dangerous they’re saying. (Not trying to diss victims who say a certain user is an actual pedo) Kids think adults/older kids are cool and awesome, so they try to intimidate the same actions and behaviors as their favorite UA-camr, and want to be on vrchat to meet their favorite UA-camr. Which is not only dangerous but I wish UA-camrs would set up boundaries and tell their younger audience to not get vrchat until they’re at least 16 or up.
Honestly gonna subscribe Derafrog, this kinda stuff really helps to show those who don't understand and are genuinely interested why this game is the way it is.
When I first played with SecondLife over a decade ago I went through a bit of an identity crisis because I naturally gravitated towards using a female avatar. I got worried about people getting the wrong idea about me. But at the same time I thought it just looked to much better, and there were so many more outfits and options for customization, and I wasn't a fan of how the male avatars looked. I guess it's much like real life - guys have maybe 3 different looks, but there's a whole universe in female fashion. It's nice to see that it seems so common and normal in VRChat now :) (well, at least judging from all the vrchat-youtube-clips I've seen - I've yet to spend some more time in VRChat myself).
Very informative, thanks. Planning on pre-ordering the Quest 3s and getting into this to learn languages and make friends. Thanks for being unbiased and shedding light on different things, especially the bad.
Beautiful video bro this perfectly represents the good side of vrc and mentions the bad but ways to avoid it this should be like a tutorial video that all new vrc players see just to get people more invested and willing to just do normal stuff instead of trolling and erp and the weird stuff like that I'm really just trying to say wonderful video keep up the good work we need more people like you in the community
I used to erp for money. I couldn’t afford college and my family couldn’t help that much because they don’t make a lot of money. I worked for three years in fast food and started making content and doing things for money the day I turned 18. I hated it but it made me money. I kept doing it for months and I hated myself. It made me hate vr which is what I wanted to go to school for. I eventually quit and just kept making content but no more erp. I eventually quit and I instantly improved to slightly mentally ill. It took me about a year to get fully better after all of it, but it helped me get to school even if I feel like garbage over it. I finally love vr again, but now I see all of the bad with the good. I am glad that I had the experience so I can work hard to help others sway away from that.
This is really well said Derafog, thank you for highlighting the issues inside VRChat, i hope this reaches VRChat, into changing there prospective into content they show! Gave me some idea for worlds for the future! Sending possitive vibes 🎉❤
I don't really feel satisfied with the female avatar question. There being more female avatars as an option not only doesn't really explain an individual's preference for them, but it also doesn't explain why the community as a whole prefers to use them - it's the result. Of course there's going to be more female avatars available if the fanbase is drawn towards using and creating female avatars. That itself doesn't explain how people who are so attached to this game to where they feel psychological sensations if someone touches them in vr wish to portray themselves, or the reasons for their decision. It is a case by case basis, but it's clear that there's an overarching theme. I don't think that VRChat has a perception problem, because there's so many different ways to interpret what it is we see in the game. The very premise is detached from reality: social interaction where both users have full control over the outputs they have - from how they look to how they sound. At any point you can mute the other, or even make them disappear. I don't think that you can fairly try to relate real world justifications for certain actions without taking this fact into consideration. Guys wear female avatars in VRChat for one reason - they just want to be treated as attractive, and the social benefits that come with it.
Honestly the best part of VRC is because of the freedom for creativity. Yes, there are problems, degenerates etc. However there are places that do improv acting, there was a group that recreated the rocky horror show. I personally run a theatre with music events, dancing and skits. The curtains rise and fall, there are stage sets, you can descend from a chandelier, etc. It’s very much so a what you make of it game. It just is a bit hard to find these groups on your own. It’s very much know people who know people.
I have met some awesome people in vr chat. I have also run into some pretty fucked up people. I have furthermore primarily just run into a buncha normal people. I think one of the first things that needs to go are small kids. I think that there fixes other issues by proxy
I've only played vrchat a handful of times with a couple of my friends. Thing is, they almost always want to do private worlds, which going through an entire world with only 2 other people who I already spend a lot of time with isn't really what I think of when it comes to vrchat. One of my best memories with vrchat was when the 3 of us actually went to a public world, some island with various objects around the map that you could move around, but overall just a chat area. I spent about an hour gathering up items and making an island in the sky which you get to by jumping from trampoline to trampoline, and I spent extra time just making the island look nice and talking with the people that got up there.
Honestly I’m in the boat as some of those guys, the male avatars always look like e-boy strippers, it’s weird. I chose a cute avatar because I’d prefer that over the “other thing”
I always feel sick when I see the typical eBoy/eGirl stripper avatars and they always have a very poor rating 99.999999999%. Then you look at the avatar details and see, as mentioned, the disgusting file sizes, the number of materials that are beyond good and evil, an insane number of physbones, etc., but they don't even look that good. I once saw an avatar that had something like 20 materials and a file size of 600MB, where even I could have condensed it down to 4 materials and come out with 40MB and it would have looked exactly the same and worked.
Thank you for the video, honestly i tried vr chat 3 times and everything u described applies PRECISELY. I cant stand horny people and each time was pretty depressing for me to get into it. Not sure if ever going to give it a chance again, as a sensitive ace without friends, haha. But it's cool to know there are actual people exist in there, i see you!
I’m not even all the way through the video but I felt the frog thing SO hard. My main online name is Coldish and I get called Cold fish or just fish all the time. THERES NO F!!!!!!
Most VRC users have discord/twitch mod appearances. I went to TwitchCon specifically the VRC meetup this last weekend, it was an eye-opening experience for me.
All the other VRC UA-camrs I'm subscribed to haven't been posting in months. I'm so glad to see someone holding up the flag to post normal content and hopefully attract new people to the game with a healthy mindset. My friends and I are pretty much staying inside our own bubble because of the reasons mentioned here. Occasionally, we will hang out in public lobbies as some of us like to organize pop-up events and share their creativity with a new audience but for the majority of times we stick to our walled garden and only introduce select and trustworthy people to our circle. That said, getting in isn't necessarily hard but sticking with us, working with us on projects and gaining our overall trust is what we will ultimately be looking out for and appreciate (wow, kinda like real friends lmao). I think I recognized someone in your video. Probably just a matter of time until we run into each other, too. :> Take care, man~
This video is so fucking good, SO FUCKING GOOD MAN. Everything I have ever wanted to explain to someone about vrchat and how it really is is here and even more holy fucking shit.
There are supportive non-sexual groups, performance, improv, roleplay, creation. But the majority is somewhat sexual. I want the cool side of VR showcased, amazing worlds and shaders on the edge of the community creativity
Incredibly well done video. As a VRChat content creator myself I honestly don't think I'd be able to answer half of these questions in as much thought provoking detail as you did here
15:42 Yes! Yes! We _need_ age verification. I really am just not comfortable interacting or hanging out with minors, and it is very important to me that I know the company I am in specifically for the kinds of jokes that I make and everything else, and just be able to be personal without worrying that I'm talking to some kid. I would be more than happy to present my ID to verify my age if necessary (as long as it's secure and whatnot ofc).
I didn't have a friend group to bring in but I made some friends inside the game. It was a very enjoyable time messing around in different worlds with them and playing minigames together in our group. After some time those friends did the skype thing of being offline forever and me never knowing where they went. I couldn't find more friends like that again as I mostly got people that I just didn't like and also some that would try to crash me. Another thing would be people seeing me in a female avatar as the male ones looked goofy af IMO and blocking me for using one. So I just hung up the vr and it has been gathering dust since the VIVE came out pretty much. +add on that me being lazy to set it up and clean my room befor every session as I got my gatto spreading his hair everywhere. I like this video but I do hate all the drama vrc stuff where you just hear some rando talking about their bad life experience and I will hate YT for shoving it in my face after watching this cuz its vrc related :
A very wholesome video. I had a friend group back in 2020 but they moved to ERP and started falling off the hang out time. One day I just stopped putting on the HMD and just went monitor mode. Then I just stopped all together. A coworker gave me their quest 2 and I hoped back in after almost 4 years. Its bad now. The public worlds are so much worse.
Same. Even with my own group of friends, I just can't carry a conversation yet. It's not even that I'm shy, or anxious about it. I just have nothing to say. They naturally have things to converse about, though. It's weird. If you're like that, it's an incredibly lonely experience. But it's still fun to just roam around worlds and interact with stuff. Not exactly eavesdropping, but having conversations going on around me makes it less lonely.
@@Kylaroni Yeah, I feel like I don't have a personality to relate to. Even though I have been on the internet for all of my life, I don't think I have made a single friendship that lasted or than 2 weeks.
That's precisely why I got into VRChat to get rid of anxiety. At it's worst, I had incredibly strong anxiety that would make it hard to breathe, muscle cramps, couldn't look at people in the face, even leaving the house took a ton of willpower & energy, and all that other stuff. Hopefully you never let your anxiety get that bad, I just was going about removing anxiety the wrong way and push myself into situations I wasn't quite ready for, which led to failure and thus massive anxiety. The big thing is to know your limits, and try to push your limits little by little as much as possible so your comfort zone is bigger until you feel comfortable being around people. I used to feel dread just being in the same room as people, now I am comforted by people. It's not an overnight thing (unless you get really friggin lucky with an awesome person) Now VRC has changed a lot since I first joined so I can't exactly suggest any worlds. Basically I played murder, and would just run around corners to look for clues if I started getting too nervous or wanted to distract my brain from anxiety creepin' up on me again, then when I was in a world for a long time, people get bored and start talking about random stuff and usually you can just go to another world to finish a conversation at some point. Now there's so many more games and worlds around. Like the video talked about puzzle games which has got me a few friends in the past. I haven't tried two time to talk but I've heard a lot of good positive stories from people that have used that world. That said, once you make some friends, it can be a lot easier as you can avoid the chaos of public worlds, and generally it's pretty easy to make friends from meeting friends of friends. Whatever the case is, don't be too hard on yourself if something gets awkward or if you feel like you "failed" in some way. Socializing is incredibly complex, and how you "should" socialize with everyone is going to be different based on who that person is so some mistakes will be made no matter how "perfect" someone is at being social. Just learn from it and keep improving/adapting as you can always get better as socializing Good luck! = )
23:00 I usually get more documentary like videos like yours, tutorials for avatar creation or videos like the ones from Lolathon or Cyberchimp where somebody has to show something cool they made.
my favorite gay vrc creator Derafrog!
Funny
Me
To
There’s definitely at least one ‘r’ 🤭
Yo can we kiss?
i cant believe theyre turning the frogs gay
Wait until you find out the earth is indeed round. Haven't slept in days, trying to wrap my brain around it.
@@BurchiiGoBrrrIt's a reference to the meme😭
THEY'RE EATING THE FROGS
@@BurchiiGoBrrr Your brain folds in ways that it could be completely flat if spread out.
No it doesn't, I made that up.
@@akornsealz THEY'RE CONDUCTING TRANSGENDER SURGERIES ON ILLEGAL FROGS
One thing about mirror dwelling. A friend of mine did a research paper on that and a bunch of other things. He concluded using a mirror is a way to compensate for the lack of perception, spatial awareness and feel of yourself. It becomes extremely natural then to use the mirror as a complement to the lack of these senses that VR limits. To me it makes perfect sense and I think that once you're more comfortable within VR and with your own setup/tracking. You kinda like "going back" of not using the mirror because you're not as sense deprived.
I would actually like to see this research paper lol link pls
Damn. Never would have thought. When I mirror dwell it’s because I just need to space out and let my mind go blank
This is how I've described it to people who ask. It's really does make so much sense and it aggravates me a little to see people shit on it!
It's a mix between the "oh my god look my body moves when I move" thing that enraptures all of us the first time we play VR, and also a compensation for lack of vision. When you think about it, VR has been a safehaven for a lot of socially wary or delayed people. I equate sitting in front of a mirror to sitting in the corner of the room-somewhere where nobody is able to sneak up on you, and you can also take stock of people approaching and the goings-on of an instance. There's too much new stimulus going on within the confines of your vision to be able to accurately monitor your surroundings, and the mirror helps assist that greatly.
I found myself moving away from them more and more as I got acquainted with VR and how it feels. For fullbody users, another aspect of mirrors was to monitor how their tracking is doing, which the personal mirror helped out with. World mirrors however, with their placements on walls and in corners, still provide that "safe" respite. I seldom play with mirrors at all when with friends now, but if I know nobody in the lobby, the mirror is a comfortable aid and a nice provided area for me to sit and adjust to the vibes of the social setting.
Personally, i use the mirror to make sure whatever i'm doing looks right/good and yeah to compensate for the lack of other senses i guess.
honestly i just turn on some some music, sit in front of a mirror and completely zone out for hours without talking to anyone, most of the time in a private world, i just like to forget anything exists
The mandela effect 100% happened and now you're in the timeline where you were actually named Derafrog.
please no...
@@Derafog but yes
This is further solidified when Derafog said there's isn't an `r` anywhere lol
Mirror mirror on the wall is there a universe where it's refracted all
Mario ahhh universe
Ironically, I’m a woman that uses a male avatar exclusively (Deku). I’m modest and tomboy. I don’t like the female models, they don’t represent me well. Too slutty, thicc, or egirl.
Has nothing to do with my sexuality. (I’m married to a man) As a character, I feel Deku conveys the approachable, kind, trustworthy, nerd at a glance. Since they can’t see the real me. Been him for almost 4 years. At this point my friends would get confused if I changed, and I’d feel weird being anything else in VRChat
Deku is a hard av to rock permanently
@@VoidySan I mean, when you find an avi you identify with it’s easy. I have +100 Deku avis for every occasion. 😎👉🏻👉🏻
@Jestloo that's so cute I love that 😭
Personally that's my issue with most female avatars. I've had a hard time looking for a modest looking avatar that fits my style. Most of them look too slutty, have awkward physbones, or are too short.
honestly same except I mainly use female avis with frilly dresses or pretty veils since I both like the modesty and the flowy-ness of the physics (and it makes me so sad that to quest players I'm a lot less flowy)
Derafog and Phia are some of my favorite VRC Content Creators because they cover VR topics from the POV of people who actively interact with the community. They give everything a fair shake and state the flaws of VRChat but still try to show the outside audience the beauty that comes with a game as unique as VRChat.
Derafrog*
Same! I never miss a video from either of them and I open it up and click the like button immediately. I already know it's going to be great.
tbh i recently found out people erp in warframe.... its everywere, its just alot more openly advertised in vrchat lol
..............😭
No way......
There used to be ERP in fucking *warcraft 3*, and it wasn't just the cringe LOAP maps. just in general
That honestly doesnt suprise me if you know ANYTHING about warframes community. No shame its honestly just funny to watch
as a long time warframe player I never knew about it. I'm not really surprised. but my first thought is "how" hahaha
ive noticed the same answers across multiple games and it mostly boils down to customization. men dont get that many options when it comes to the look and feel, women do.
Maybe if there was an actual system that supports variations instead of everyone DIY everything for each damn avatar. Kinda like metahuman.
My own answer is simple “You can be whatever the hell you wanna be in this game. So I chose a avatar with giant Honkers” I could say something about customization or whatever but for me its the freedom of being whatever I wish
Nature gave nothing to a men
My answer is I picked it once and couldn't be bothered to change it, probably the same reason woman use male avatars.
You nailed it about male avis, I rarely find a male avi I enjoy wearing and when I do find one I just stick to that one forever lol Also agreed on the content made. VRChat is such a creatively open sandbox, I want to push myself to make more content through it and I'd love to see more creative projects spring from this space because there's opportunities to really turn it into something great! Fantastic vid dude
I found one that I can almost relate to and it barely has anything on it and is totally out of proportion lol.
I striaghtup skip trying to find male avatars and just try my best to find robots, especially gender neutral ones.
i just made my own avatar since i couldnt find any male avis i like lmao. it took me many many hours of work to make it though, so i get that not everyone wants to do that
"this male avatar is too girly"
*uses female avatar instead*
My father always said, if you are going to do something, you do it 100% or not at all. I guess that applies here!
@@pacificnebula4899 hes speaking facts
Why such a sexualized avatar? He wants it to be casual, yet the avatar is so pornographic, it's design so catering to male desires. I don't have a problem with that, but I am bothered by the dishonesty of him not admitting the obvious: He likes boobs, the titilation he feels when he looks down and sees his avatars nipples visibly shaping his characters shirt. I feel like some of these men have not been with a woman for so long, if ever at all that they cope with this sexual frustration by immersing themselves in VR with sexualized anime women.
I had a conversation with my roommate about my first experience. Told her "it's just a bunch of screaming children. Was hoping to drink and chat with people but it was all yelling and memes that go over my head." She wanted to try so I gave her the quest. Couple hours later I just got a "yup same"
I'm glad to see another person who gives a damn about optimization. Not a fan of the edgy aesthetic of e-boys and e-girls, but I can always appreciate when someone has put effort into not selfishly ruining everyone's experience just so they can look fancy. And about the female avatars thing: the same can be said for any game that lets you pick your character's sex, I honestly don't get why there's still people asking such a basic question like they've never played an MMO before.
Oh yeah with avatar optimization for Quest... Questies might never know how flashy/metallic they appear for PC users😂I got called an Eboy for no reason and was totally confused for like two years before I got a good PC with RTX3070ti. Dang, I thought it was just regular black sporty clothes
Tbh I just enable shield with super strict custom settings and just show avis for friends and or some people who might have a cool or funny avi i wanna see. It works fine on quest, and if i ever upgrade my pc to be worthy for vr, where I will have much more lenient optimization limits for avis and worlds, I'll likely continue the same tradition. Not that Optimization isn't a good rule of thumb to follow, but I dont really care too much, and even if so I mainly just crunch textures down, weed out certain things as needed, as well as generate impostors, optimization is way more complex to balance with your avis features.
Also, for my opinion on Fem vs Masc avis, I don't really know why it matters very much. People have an option to wear an avi they like, and I don't see a reason why they have to be gated based on gender, and id rather focus on actual issues with vrc avis such as crashers and public erp avis.
So as someone who started playing for about 5 months now, this is my experience with VR chat. (note I am on PC) when I first joined it was a bit chaotic. Kids everywhere and I didn’t really know where to go. I ran into somebody and I told him that I was new and they brought me to an avatar world where now I am mainly just a duck. I traveled around and I end up meeting someone else and that person made me meet their friends and now I made a giant friend group with a bunch of cool people. It’s definitely a place where people who have been friends for a long time online meet up kind of in person. There is a dark side on VR chat, but let’s be honest what online media does not have a dark side and have gross people on it. The kids have been mixed for me. On one side have been actually pretty chill and funny goofy little kids while the other half are just being obnoxious just to annoy everyone. But one of my biggest complaints is how I literally met a five-year-old on there! Like parents should not be laying their kids have VR’s on my opinion and getting on VR chat. A lot of the avatars are also a mix for me as well. You have your memes, anime sexual, nonsexual, furry etc. it is hard just to find a normal character though. One of the reasons why I kind of want to start 3D modeling characters so people can have normal looking characters. Overall, I do recommend it but just like every public online space it’s going to be crazy.
Plus everything is so damn expensive about VRChat.
Getting a solid VR headset and controllers, getting a rig that can run VR smooth enough that it's comfortable (plus gotta compensate for the nigh guarantee of horribly optimised avatars and worlds), you need enough space in wherever you live, you need solid internet connection for the sake of comfort and nerves, plus if you're not comfortable with any public avatars, it can be a couple hundred buckaroos for a _template_ and even more for one tailored to what you want from an avatar.
ive played VRC since like 2019 and i stay far away from VRC content because its all drama or the bad side of VRC. but i cant resist watching your videos amazing job!
edit: the puzzle idea is an amazing idea! i have pretty bad anxiety and have a hard time interacting with people first unless im drinking.
thank you frog!
there are to PC games that I play, Terrors of Nowhere and Slash co. they are horror though but not that bad and ways to make it less terrifying. I'm not a giant fan of horror and can play these on full. Slash Co s more cooperative n finding things for everyone to escape. while Terrors kind of works a bit independently most of the time. These worlds are PC only so the majority of players are over the age of 18. but both games you can get a feel for the lobby before trying to talk or no talk at all.
@@AleenaLee277 Fellow Slash Co workers here, best company I worked in so far. Can recommend.
@@AleenaLee277 thank you ill have to try them out, being PC only is a huge benefit too.
I love the term "Social Platform". It's often like hopping in a telegram group with your international friends and just chatting and talking. Vrchat is the same, you and your friends chill and talk, but with the addition of body language, cool avatars, and beautiful worlds or games to play
what about the groups that RP like DND? people may find adult pretend cringe but playing as a stormtrooper vs other people on worlds built for cinematics is INSANE. ive enjoyed every minute and mostly play VRC only to do ACTUAL roleplay groups that tell stories in a Immersive way.
I play as the avatars I use it's my fun. Like ODSTs, or Crysis avatars especially a CELL Trooper that I was given from the creater I found and added
ive been searching for roleplay groups but i cant find them... do you have any tips on finding them?
@@nidgithm ye just Join a Open RP or find someone in a RP group.
A couple I can name off mind that are public are Meatrack (a cyberpunk theme) or Purple Lotus. Just find the Groups in the "group" search in vrc and they always open group sessions
@@nidgithm The Mortisian Kingdom is a fantasy 1920's RP group that has been around for about 4 years now, I only mention it because I DM for it. There is another that is far more fantasy focused and is good but I honestly can't remember the name of it at this time. It always depends on your tastes of what kind of RP you like doing. Some posters exists in worlds for groups.
"why do people use a mirror"
the simple answer that i'm surprised not many people think about is your senses. In person, when you're hanging out with friends in a room, you know where they are, you have full vision, you can hear them move and breath and know exactly where they are. In VRC, you completely lose most of those senses. You have a lower field of vision, you don't get to hear and easily figure out where everyone is off of tiny little things. Using a mirror helps you know/feel where people are around you without having to turn your whole head and headset just to get a small glance of the person next to you. It's just all about senses. I've had plenty of moments where me and friends are sitting around a table in VRC just chatting and it's perfectly fine when we're all in line of sight of eachother
The spinning camera montage was actually hilarious 🤣
VRC vet since 2017 myself, and yeah, this pretty much tracks. Glad I stumbled onto your channel, you do a good job of video essay content like this, I always like seeing other creators perspectives on things
do u know why i have the words "UG" on my name? i've been wondering for so long what it means when it suddenly appeared when i logged into vrchat recently
hey im friends with you on vrc
I LOVED this video, and I agree there should be more normal, or at least positive VRChat content. An idea I thought about you could try is a video about the New Player experience, what it's like, interviews of people about what their experience was like as a new player, and how both VRChat and the community can improve it for new players!
worth considering
@@Derafog id be down to help out i started playing the game again after 5 years just look at my recent comment rq
Truthfully I choose to use non-human and non-humanoid avatars entirely. I enjoy funky lil animals, froggy taxi being one of my favorites, and often use a minecraft bee or plate of pancakes shaped like a bunny to express myself as.
For me it can also be pointed at the fact that I am queer, I am genderfluid and sometimes don't want to appear as masculine, feminine, male, female, or even androgynous. I just want to be.
Just wanna bee 🐝
20:46 Yay that is me 💕 Here is your good boy/girl reward
Goodjob luci, nailed it xD
whats your thoughts on what I call "pavlov's femboy" where straight guys use fem avi's for the same reason you do (and I do) and get a lot of positive attention for it, that IRL guys rarely get, and it leads to positive reinforcement of female characteristics?
I have trans friends, I have gay friends and I have seen VR chat break a few egg's, but I have also seen a few straight guys be "only gay in VR" kinda stuff, I don't really have an opinion on it, but think its interesting, and should be explored.
I feel like the opportunities that VRC provides for neurological and behavioral research are so plentiful, yet because of not only VRC's reputation and misunderstood community, but also because of its still relative nicheness in the world of gaming, most people, especially actual people who would look into those topics, either don't know it exists or look at the most popular content and see that it's just "the meme game with a bunch of erp". There's so many things we could discover about the human mind through VRC. Being "only gay in VR" or, as you said, positive reinforcement of feminine traits is just a somewhat normalized thing in VRC, but IRL that sounds like an anomaly, or someone just trying to make excuses for their sexuality or gender identity.
Forgive me for using your comment as an outlet for something that's been on my mind, it just reminded me of that thought process.
I'd bet most people would never think about gender without a safe way to explore it, but once they have a safe outlet they'd much prefer something outside their assigned gender presentation. Not even fully trans, just bucking the gender norms they are expected to adhere to. Although trans people do find out that way too.
I love how honest you are, I was literally chanting "YEAH!" to nearly every take about the topic in this video.
I wanted to start by just saying I love your content.
It feels so rare to find the content simply going over the day-to-day workings of vrchat. That everything isn't about sex and there are plenty of ways to experience the game that isn't full of predators or trolls or people trying to crash your game.
It's nice to see someone simply talk about simple interactions that can happen and how those are the most fun that you'll have. The people that we meet, talk to, and experience things with that's what keeps me and I am willing to assume any others coming back to VR chat over and over again.
I really do hope for the best when it comes to future content on the platform. It's creators like yourself that give me that hope that we can maybe see at least a little bit more content that isn't mostly focused on the worst parts.
I wish you and anyone who reads this the very best and anyone else who decides to find their way down the digital pathway VR chat maybe one day we'll run into each other.
I am looking into avatars from a social scientific standpoint atm and I do find the argument of males trending toward female avatars due to lack of choice unsatisfactory, at least from my perspective.
The only survey we have to go by for long-term vrc users is the study by luidmila bredkhina that she does with nem in the japanese scene each year, and that found a wide resonance in the western scene as well - which leads me to roughly generalize a sociodemographic 80/20 or generous 70/30 sex disparity (biological male to biological female - I am aware of everything across, outside or inbetween gender-wise).
Avi creation follows supply and demand, and the demand for less edgy, optimized and proportionate male avatars (if I go by what people bring up when questioned) should be incredibly high.
I have been in vrc since 2018. I interview people in this scene for my work, and have mostly gotten the exact same answer you have given in regard to avis. I have also interviewed well known avatar creators of this scene, who explained that their male avatars never sold well.
Bad Male Avatars are an effect of self-selection and supply/demand. The root cause has to be somewhere else, and I find the shifting of blame to creators doesn't reveal it.
I don't find the typical gamer answer of "having something pretty to look at" helpful either to explain the choice. That might have been a driving reason to choose a nightelf priestess in WoW, but with the level of embodiment in VRC there is clearly a deeper allure to feeling and seeing yourself in a female body.
maybe, but it's the case for me.
This video really is just me speaking my thoughts, and i'm sure there's deeper info I don't know into everything.
I haven't seen a male avi I like in years, and the old avis i used to use feel too out of date now. so now im in male avi limbo, where i keep my eye out, but they never deliver how i want. i'm friends with alot of those avi creators and can honestly say their male avis fall under exactly what i was talking about, with just not feeling right, because they all use the same bases, and same faces. then they style them like its a female avi. there's exceptions, but they always fail in one aspect i don't like...
Maybe there's a phycological thing going on where certain things are socially acceptable for women and not men and that effects our perception of avis. I really don't know...
just some thoughts, all i know for sure, is i'm still waiting for that male avi I like, the lethal company avatar can only bring me so far...
or robots, i like robots too.
@@Derafog I am a robot as well, I think we can all agree that those are the supreme choice anyways ^^
also no shade, its perfectly valid to choose what feels best from the choices that are available to you. I mostly search for the underlying structural reasons that lead to the point where the avatar market is currently - and why it doesn't seem to change
Problem I can see is that, yes, there defo is demand, no one's willing to pay so much money for an avatar as for a bottom tier VR headset and those who do, are perfectly fine with the edgier, more revealing and anime-styled avatars.
It's probably got a whole lot to do with men being oppressed by patriarchal standards. There's a lot of pressure to "act like a man". Being able to drop all that sounds similar to what business men do when they visit a dominatrix. It's not a horny thing, it's a stress management thing. Men have to perform and never complain. No shit they want to get away from that and just unwind. It's like going on a small vacation.
Obviously, I could be super effing wrong, but it's worth considering.
@@asteria9963 There are authors like Patrick Galbraith and Luidmila Bredkhina who write about the topic in this way, definately not off the mark I'd say!
Instead of the classical "the dark side of vrc" bullshit everyone should watch this. Everyone ive spoken to just sees the bad and thinks that that is all it is, its sad
I played VR chat for only a few months back in 2018, but during that time I was able to find friends and get all that cozy experience of communicating/spending time in a friendly company. But I miss the immersion in VR chat so much that I would like to buy a VR kit, but it is too expensive, which makes me very sad...
And thanks to VR Chat I was able to talk to foreigners for the first time, and now I can communicate fluently in English and partly in Japanese. This was my first step in communicating with someone not from my country.
the game is a way for many to express themselvess, and create things that normally you would never see in a lifetime. and meeting new poeple and hanging around those who you deem worthy, from all around the world.. is just amazing and i believe there is an audience for evrery kind of person.
15:05 THIS!! This is why we need puzzle vrchat worlds
Such interesting, honest and creative content. I’m so far removed and unaware of this world and VR in general, but you tell a great story and make the subject approachable for such a wide audience. I’m genuinely impressed, man. Love what you’re doing.
I've got maybe 8 hours on VRChat. All of them spent at stuff like VR music events, with live DJs and stuff where I'd never be able to see their stuff in person 'cos they're not in the UK and don't tour. I know it has some awesome stuff on it but it feels basically impossible to find friends within the game because I only ever go on it to do stuff I can't do with my IRL friends and you have to sift through all the kids and annoying people, so this video pretty much hits the nail on the head for me.
I don't have a problem with ERP shit, hell I'm no stranger to doing odd things because they're either fun or because I get lonely but I genuinely find that if I boot up VRChat and step into a populated world it's like 30-40% kids, 20% people like me who just seem lost and then leave after nothing really happens and then the rest are a mix of folks that have been playing for ages and just ignore new players or people who saw the funny anime girl tiddies and just wanna have vaguely horny bro chats which instantly icks me out.
I mean heck, it's been 2 years since I last played. I still watch VRChat stuff from people who seem a bit more...normal? Or do content where they just talk to people. Azeal is one that pops up on my timeline here and there, interviewing people about their lives. I used to like Drumsy but his stuff got a bit old. ChrisQuitsReality is among the "troll" types of videos that I do like, but really only because he uses full-body-tracking and actually has some interesting shit like taking a poledancing class and stuff. 60% of the videos are cringe but some of it is kinda neat.
But yeah. I'm hesitant to come back every time I see it in my library and thinking "hmm...I could...nah" - every time I just see the usual thing happening. I awkwardly wander around trying to chat to people and it's either like when you're the guy at a party who only knows one person or most of the people in the lobby end up being annoying/terrible because everyone that isn't that already has established groups they vibe with.
Great video *ahem* derafrog. Some serious good points and good smooth editing as well!
Amazing video. Loved it. I just got into VRChat about 2 months ago and your video came up in my feed early on because I was researching about it. I was so curious. At the time, a lot of what you talked about here sounded like a foreign language to me it was all so new. It came up in my feed again tonight and it was so fun to re-watch and understand so much more. I’m fascinated with VRChat and how endless the possibilities are. Thank you for creating such good content!
As a massive VRC Degenerate.
I do relate to the latter half of the video abit, Man i wish some of the content for this game was more... Normal or just cool shit, This game has so much space to do so much cool shit.
I just wish more people seeked it out so more people made it and didnt just go for the normal typical Degen thrist bait content.
Great video tho dude.
I use VRC exclusively for "cool shit."
Once you go digging there's plenty to find. Organism and Terracotta Valley have been getting some traction as of late due to a video by Logan From Earth. My favorite world is probably Island One. A 1:1 scale model of an O'Neil cylinder habitat in VR is nothing short of mind bending. And there's basically no examples of rotating space habitats in games so it's that or nothing.
Give the desperate the virtual freedom of a God, and they shall make a gooners paradise.
I'm glad to see more people talk about the VRChat streamers who are taking advantage of parasocial relationships and doing some really weird things to obtain and retain viewers. I don't think this is a VRchat only issue, but VRchat makes it easier to exploit it without having to show your face (and in some cases without using your real voice). VRchat streamers are also probably less likely to get outright banned for wearing an avatar with skimpy clothing, as opposed to a RL person.
Streamers who abuse parasocial relationships are dangerous. VRchat isn't the cause of it, but it's certainly been given the perception that people on VRchat are like this.
VRChat is such a experience unique to every single person, explaining it just doesn't work you can try what people tell you they experience but that doesn't work out everytime.
I think if a person truly wants to experience the game as a person with over 1k if not 2k hours has.
You have to give it time, like aged wine, that includes a good place for the wine or well collective of people/friends better the place/collective better the wine/experience.
This video's point is somewhat obviuse to players who have thousands of hours but the newer once can be almost like a revelation, at least I'd like to thinks so.
Like this one alot.
I wrote the the comment halway through the video, I very much agree with the second point.
I wish someone would cover RP itself or groups, be it futuristic, realistic medieval one or just pure fantasy. Like we have streamers in our groups not big ones but very talented same goes with avatar creators, roleplayers/borderline actors.
It truly makes me sad seeing the outlook on one of my favourite games when it comes to VR, and sure it has and attracts a lot of gooners and degens, some people that are normal have a side to them that could be called "degenerate" but the who hasn't. As long as you surround yourself with people who either don't do it at all or keep it so private even their close friends don't know. Who cares.
Again I reinstate this video is amazingly put together.
(I hope it exceeds your video about the more then ugly part of VRC "community", honestly the word community is a stretch in this context.)
It's because we all know you are treated better as a female character by men and women. Women have their guard down, and men in most part, find it visually appealing.
VRC without friends or a group is pretty bleak. The game should promote some of their biggest groups like Ancients of VRC or ShelterNet.
i love these, so much. like genuinely. actually keeps me aware of what the hell is happening in VRC, and probably the biggest reason why im terrified of going into public servers (besides the fear of someone jumping into the server and ripping the code off of an avatar)
Wanted to say, nice video.
I also wanted to add in my opinion to Lolathon and GreatMoonAroma. Their names are DarrenZues and CyberChimpTV, both do the same as the other but just are lesser known content creators, I think.
like your lethal company skin btw looks cool
Loved and totally respect this video. 💙
You really nailed the problem-VRChat is often seen as just provocative avatars and chaotic people, but there's so much more under the surface. It's a place where people make genuine connections, find a sense of belonging, and create a community that’s as real as any other.
That’s honestly why we’re here, y’know? We really believe it IS real and meaningful. It's nice to come across a video that makes us feel understood in a cool way as some of the creators who care about this space.
Thanks for shining a light on what VRChat is really about.
- Hash Studios Team
Great video! As someone who has only played on desktop and wants to look up more videos about VR Chat, the most famous ones usually never show it in a good light. Which sucks because from when I played I met the coolest people around the world.
As a minor, I disagree with Age Separation.
Mainly because I don't enjoy being with people my age on VRC because they're all brainrotted skibidi toilet fans. It's insufferable.
The premise is great but people like me would be stuck in virtual madness with the hellhounds we call Quest Users.
You are so spot on about everything in this video. My Biggest thing is that VRchat has and can do so much good for people be it ALWAYS gets overshadowed by all the negativity about the planform. Every time there is a video talking about the good side of the platform the comments are just fill with " YEA BUT WHAT ABOUT THIS THING THAT HAPPENS IN THE GAME!?"
The game is very special to me there's a level of customization unparalleled by any other game in existence. I started playing vrchat for a laugh when it was new. But from the people I've met, groups I've been apart of and events that I've attended the game grew on me making me realise that it's so much more than what it initially appears to be. The game is the people you meet and the friends you make surrounded by infinite creativity.
wow
that's one hell of a good video man. That problem also affected me; I have many different groups of friends and some of them that are not into the topic make assumptions about me having many hours in vrchat. I try to treat it as a joke and laugh with them but man, all I do is hang out with buds, laugh with them and have a good time. That's all.
also wtf you are so underrated Mr. Derafrog you deserve more attention!!
Thanks you for the video, great as always, DerafRog
Im really happy I found videos about vrchat like yours, I think phia was the first good vrchat channel I found, cause it showed me so much about how fu and amazing this game is, what it *really* is, like everyone else, my first experience wasnt really great, I think I probably just went to the black cat (big mistake) and to some avatar worlds and then just mever played again for months, but when I saw how amazing the game truly was and went to worlds I saw online I actually had so much fun and found so many amazing people! And im actually really thankful for that (did multiple nights sleepy at 6 am or not sleeping at all because of how much fun I was having) another big thing for me is that im a really big introvert, i love people but im always to scared to talk and although that still happens often and I sometimes just spend like 30 min in vrc just awkwardly trying to get comfortable enough to talk vrchat actually really helps with getting me to be less scared to talk to people, you can be whatever you want to be (pretty much) and well if u do anything wrong/something bad happens you can just leave, close the game or block bad people. And also, I actually "discovered" some month ago that I'm trans (been thinking about it for like 2 years but it was too scary) and vrchat lets me be who I really want to be l, theres even an amazing world for trans people with amazing people there (theres often a bit too much people for me tho so I sometimes cant manage to talk to anyone) so really, thank you vrchat for giving me so many precious memories
Goddam that is a really big paragraph T^T
I agree so much with the street style shit man its impossible to find.
You've earned my sub with these VRC docs. Please continue
Honestly, you make a good point, especially how Vrchat trolling/funny moments are more likely to attract kids than adults. In my own experience on vrchat, kids are not only annoying but repeat the same jokes over and over again. Harassing others and calling people who are in their 20’s-30’s pedo’s as a joke, not realizing how hurtful and dangerous they’re saying. (Not trying to diss victims who say a certain user is an actual pedo) Kids think adults/older kids are cool and awesome, so they try to intimidate the same actions and behaviors as their favorite UA-camr, and want to be on vrchat to meet their favorite UA-camr. Which is not only dangerous but I wish UA-camrs would set up boundaries and tell their younger audience to not get vrchat until they’re at least 16 or up.
Honestly gonna subscribe Derafrog, this kinda stuff really helps to show those who don't understand and are genuinely interested why this game is the way it is.
When I first played with SecondLife over a decade ago I went through a bit of an identity crisis because I naturally gravitated towards using a female avatar. I got worried about people getting the wrong idea about me. But at the same time I thought it just looked to much better, and there were so many more outfits and options for customization, and I wasn't a fan of how the male avatars looked. I guess it's much like real life - guys have maybe 3 different looks, but there's a whole universe in female fashion. It's nice to see that it seems so common and normal in VRChat now :) (well, at least judging from all the vrchat-youtube-clips I've seen - I've yet to spend some more time in VRChat myself).
i always make my own avitar and they are always dogshit and i am ok with that... cuz i be irl dogshit lol. thanks for the insight fellah.
Very informative, thanks. Planning on pre-ordering the Quest 3s and getting into this to learn languages and make friends. Thanks for being unbiased and shedding light on different things, especially the bad.
Beautiful video bro this perfectly represents the good side of vrc and mentions the bad but ways to avoid it this should be like a tutorial video that all new vrc players see just to get people more invested and willing to just do normal stuff instead of trolling and erp and the weird stuff like that I'm really just trying to say wonderful video keep up the good work we need more people like you in the community
As an extrovert I had an easier time as a new user in VRC
I used to erp for money. I couldn’t afford college and my family couldn’t help that much because they don’t make a lot of money. I worked for three years in fast food and started making content and doing things for money the day I turned 18. I hated it but it made me money. I kept doing it for months and I hated myself. It made me hate vr which is what I wanted to go to school for. I eventually quit and just kept making content but no more erp. I eventually quit and I instantly improved to slightly mentally ill. It took me about a year to get fully better after all of it, but it helped me get to school even if I feel like garbage over it. I finally love vr again, but now I see all of the bad with the good. I am glad that I had the experience so I can work hard to help others sway away from that.
Another great VrC creator is Cyberchimp. He's along the same line as Lolathon and has a lot of good stuff.
thank you derafraground. Very profound video. (fr tho)
This is really well said Derafog, thank you for highlighting the issues inside VRChat, i hope this reaches VRChat, into changing there prospective into content they show!
Gave me some idea for worlds for the future! Sending possitive vibes 🎉❤
referencing yogscast and sips really hit a core memory for me dera. like genuinely holy shit..
I don't really feel satisfied with the female avatar question. There being more female avatars as an option not only doesn't really explain an individual's preference for them, but it also doesn't explain why the community as a whole prefers to use them - it's the result. Of course there's going to be more female avatars available if the fanbase is drawn towards using and creating female avatars. That itself doesn't explain how people who are so attached to this game to where they feel psychological sensations if someone touches them in vr wish to portray themselves, or the reasons for their decision. It is a case by case basis, but it's clear that there's an overarching theme.
I don't think that VRChat has a perception problem, because there's so many different ways to interpret what it is we see in the game. The very premise is detached from reality: social interaction where both users have full control over the outputs they have - from how they look to how they sound. At any point you can mute the other, or even make them disappear. I don't think that you can fairly try to relate real world justifications for certain actions without taking this fact into consideration. Guys wear female avatars in VRChat for one reason - they just want to be treated as attractive, and the social benefits that come with it.
13:56 - 16:22 This whole section perfectly describes my frustration with current social VR games like Rec Room and VRChat. Great video, dude.
Honestly the best part of VRC is because of the freedom for creativity. Yes, there are problems, degenerates etc. However there are places that do improv acting, there was a group that recreated the rocky horror show. I personally run a theatre with music events, dancing and skits. The curtains rise and fall, there are stage sets, you can descend from a chandelier, etc.
It’s very much so a what you make of it game. It just is a bit hard to find these groups on your own. It’s very much know people who know people.
Derafrrog, your videos are so good and cozy! Keep it up!
I have met some awesome people in vr chat. I have also run into some pretty fucked up people. I have furthermore primarily just run into a buncha normal people. I think one of the first things that needs to go are small kids. I think that there fixes other issues by proxy
I've only played vrchat a handful of times with a couple of my friends. Thing is, they almost always want to do private worlds, which going through an entire world with only 2 other people who I already spend a lot of time with isn't really what I think of when it comes to vrchat. One of my best memories with vrchat was when the 3 of us actually went to a public world, some island with various objects around the map that you could move around, but overall just a chat area. I spent about an hour gathering up items and making an island in the sky which you get to by jumping from trampoline to trampoline, and I spent extra time just making the island look nice and talking with the people that got up there.
First time I’m seeing this channel and I love all the camera work this, video is beautiful.
fr
Honestly I’m in the boat as some of those guys, the male avatars always look like e-boy strippers, it’s weird. I chose a cute avatar because I’d prefer that over the “other thing”
I always feel sick when I see the typical eBoy/eGirl stripper avatars and they always have a very poor rating 99.999999999%.
Then you look at the avatar details and see, as mentioned, the disgusting file sizes, the number of materials that are beyond good and evil, an insane number of physbones, etc., but they don't even look that good.
I once saw an avatar that had something like 20 materials and a file size of 600MB, where even I could have condensed it down to 4 materials and come out with 40MB and it would have looked exactly the same and worked.
Thank you for the video, honestly i tried vr chat 3 times and everything u described applies PRECISELY. I cant stand horny people and each time was pretty depressing for me to get into it.
Not sure if ever going to give it a chance again, as a sensitive ace without friends, haha.
But it's cool to know there are actual people exist in there, i see you!
i enjoy vrchat and yes i am a little gremlin but i love the calm moments the most where friends meet up, joke around and watch movies together
I’m not even all the way through the video but I felt the frog thing SO hard. My main online name is Coldish and I get called Cold fish or just fish all the time. THERES NO F!!!!!!
If it flops like a ish and it smells like an ish then it’s a fish
Bro just taught me that middle clicking opens a new tab, thank you. You probably just saved me 10 minutes of my lifetime. Thank you.
14:30 MY JUICER
Most VRC users have discord/twitch mod appearances. I went to TwitchCon specifically the VRC meetup this last weekend, it was an eye-opening experience for me.
Hey what's that world called with the cliff and the sunset view? @ 22:27
All the other VRC UA-camrs I'm subscribed to haven't been posting in months. I'm so glad to see someone holding up the flag to post normal content and hopefully attract new people to the game with a healthy mindset.
My friends and I are pretty much staying inside our own bubble because of the reasons mentioned here. Occasionally, we will hang out in public lobbies as some of us like to organize pop-up events and share their creativity with a new audience but for the majority of times we stick to our walled garden and only introduce select and trustworthy people to our circle. That said, getting in isn't necessarily hard but sticking with us, working with us on projects and gaining our overall trust is what we will ultimately be looking out for and appreciate (wow, kinda like real friends lmao). I think I recognized someone in your video. Probably just a matter of time until we run into each other, too. :>
Take care, man~
6:51 okay deafog
This was the exact video ppl need to see brroo good work
15:52 best idea ever, that would be the most amazing feature in VRC
Love me some good derafrog vids to enjoy the day
This video is so fucking good, SO FUCKING GOOD MAN. Everything I have ever wanted to explain to someone about vrchat and how it really is is here and even more holy fucking shit.
There are supportive non-sexual groups, performance, improv, roleplay, creation. But the majority is somewhat sexual. I want the cool side of VR showcased, amazing worlds and shaders on the edge of the community creativity
Incredibly well done video. As a VRChat content creator myself I honestly don't think I'd be able to answer half of these questions in as much thought provoking detail as you did here
Nice video, loved the last one too. Keep it up Derafrog
6:48 Happy that you made another one of your videos about VR, thank you Derafrog❤
15:42 Yes! Yes! We _need_ age verification. I really am just not comfortable interacting or hanging out with minors, and it is very important to me that I know the company I am in specifically for the kinds of jokes that I make and everything else, and just be able to be personal without worrying that I'm talking to some kid. I would be more than happy to present my ID to verify my age if necessary (as long as it's secure and whatnot ofc).
I didn't have a friend group to bring in but I made some friends inside the game. It was a very enjoyable time messing around in different worlds with them and playing minigames together in our group. After some time those friends did the skype thing of being offline forever and me never knowing where they went. I couldn't find more friends like that again as I mostly got people that I just didn't like and also some that would try to crash me. Another thing would be people seeing me in a female avatar as the male ones looked goofy af IMO and blocking me for using one. So I just hung up the vr and it has been gathering dust since the VIVE came out pretty much. +add on that me being lazy to set it up and clean my room befor every session as I got my gatto spreading his hair everywhere.
I like this video but I do hate all the drama vrc stuff where you just hear some rando talking about their bad life experience and I will hate YT for shoving it in my face after watching this cuz its vrc related :
youtube recommended me this video and it was very informative and funny, thanks derafrog!
A very wholesome video. I had a friend group back in 2020 but they moved to ERP and started falling off the hang out time. One day I just stopped putting on the HMD and just went monitor mode. Then I just stopped all together. A coworker gave me their quest 2 and I hoped back in after almost 4 years. Its bad now. The public worlds are so much worse.
I want to play more vrchat, but I struggle to make friends even in vr. And it just gets me sad everytime I play lol
Same. Even with my own group of friends, I just can't carry a conversation yet. It's not even that I'm shy, or anxious about it. I just have nothing to say. They naturally have things to converse about, though. It's weird. If you're like that, it's an incredibly lonely experience. But it's still fun to just roam around worlds and interact with stuff. Not exactly eavesdropping, but having conversations going on around me makes it less lonely.
@@Kylaroni Yeah, I feel like I don't have a personality to relate to. Even though I have been on the internet for all of my life, I don't think I have made a single friendship that lasted or than 2 weeks.
try two minutes to talk, it helped me SOOOOOO MUCH, i struggle so bad with social anxiety in vrchat somehow, it doesn't even happen irl lol
That's precisely why I got into VRChat to get rid of anxiety. At it's worst, I had incredibly strong anxiety that would make it hard to breathe, muscle cramps, couldn't look at people in the face, even leaving the house took a ton of willpower & energy, and all that other stuff. Hopefully you never let your anxiety get that bad, I just was going about removing anxiety the wrong way and push myself into situations I wasn't quite ready for, which led to failure and thus massive anxiety.
The big thing is to know your limits, and try to push your limits little by little as much as possible so your comfort zone is bigger until you feel comfortable being around people. I used to feel dread just being in the same room as people, now I am comforted by people. It's not an overnight thing (unless you get really friggin lucky with an awesome person)
Now VRC has changed a lot since I first joined so I can't exactly suggest any worlds. Basically I played murder, and would just run around corners to look for clues if I started getting too nervous or wanted to distract my brain from anxiety creepin' up on me again, then when I was in a world for a long time, people get bored and start talking about random stuff and usually you can just go to another world to finish a conversation at some point. Now there's so many more games and worlds around. Like the video talked about puzzle games which has got me a few friends in the past. I haven't tried two time to talk but I've heard a lot of good positive stories from people that have used that world.
That said, once you make some friends, it can be a lot easier as you can avoid the chaos of public worlds, and generally it's pretty easy to make friends from meeting friends of friends. Whatever the case is, don't be too hard on yourself if something gets awkward or if you feel like you "failed" in some way. Socializing is incredibly complex, and how you "should" socialize with everyone is going to be different based on who that person is so some mistakes will be made no matter how "perfect" someone is at being social. Just learn from it and keep improving/adapting as you can always get better as socializing
Good luck! = )
23:00 I usually get more documentary like videos like yours, tutorials for avatar creation or videos like the ones from Lolathon or Cyberchimp where somebody has to show something cool they made.
For VR chat vodeos i mostly see Interviews/documentary style content the most, then model stuffs, normally tied to art/ocs vs "hot new model" type
I searched for two hours for a model and went straight to “I’ma bout commission my own”
Yessss, i love more genuine creators like u out there! Love seeing different genuine content i never seeen before. Much love ❤
21:47 Don't forget DarrenZeus fits in this category as well.
U are so right about the lack of selection when it comes to good avis