I don't think survivors should spawn right next to gens xD, Because, thats like the killer spawning right next to survivors, they have their objective right in front of them, and while the killer wastes time looking to start making progress on his objective, the survivors already have at least one gen 50%. Or make maps smaller, I dunno. Edit: coming back to this comment, crazy amount of likes, a heart that I ost because of the edit ... Crazy.
Yeah on smaller maps, it might not be that big of a deal, depending on the rng spawn of the gen spread. Yet larger maps, that is when it can start to become a issue, for larger maps normally have gens spread out. Which can be rough on killers who can't get from point a to b quickly.
@@muffy7323 Yeah, that is true. If survivors know how to be effective on gens, gen can fly. For i team up with a group recently. It was massively different from solo q. We got gens done rather fast and quickly. It was insane how quickly we got them done.
I would like to point out that while true that all survivors play the same and that killers all have varying unique powers, the survivors do also have to go against that power. Going against that power means learning how that power works just like the killer who is playing it, this includes stuff like addons which can force you to adjust your play accordingly. Of course I think the killer still has a harder time learning to use his power and addons as opposed to the survivor learning to counter it, I just find that people ignore this sometimes when they talk about survivor skill.
But then there are also items like medkits that can almost negate the affect that your healing slowdown perks can get. Or if you have a brand new part even with corrupt you can crank a gen in no time rendering corrupt almost as wasted if it didnt give you 10 seconds because you cant chase multiple survivors at once and since they spawn together they will probably follow and just one part gives a stupid amount of speed
Baryon -_- things like corrupt and sloppy don’t have learned counterplay though. He’s talking about learning how to dodge hatchets nurse mind games etc.
Killer is just more stressful for me personally. Even if I’m doing good, I’m at the edge of my seat the whole time. When I’m survivor, I know I can just kinda shit around and be fine with one of my several crutch perks.
Yep. Ironically survivor is a far more relaxed role than killer. Being only 25% of a team rather than 100% takes so much stress off on its own, and while most killers are heavily reliant on perks and addons, as survivor you can pretty much run whatever and still be extremely effective as long as Mouse 1 and shift works. Combine this with how, if you have a terrible game as a survivor, like getting tunneled into mori, you'll just die and move on to the next game. Compare to a terrible game as killer, like all 4 survivors spawning on 4 different gens, and losing is a drawn-out process that usually results in 3-4 people stalling even further so they can all give their hot takes on your gameplay post-game.
@@joebrunton2682 The less gens, the more pressure a killer can have. Applying pressure doesnt mean "go visit every single generator". It means apply pressure where its important. If I ask you to apply pressure to break a twig, you would start applying it towards the middle, rather than at the ends, right? Then why would "Apply pressure" even make you consider to apply it equally to all gens? Besides 2 gens gone is fine, you get the points you'll need for iridescent from 3 gens. Just try to make sure they do the furthest gens first to create the smallest generator area possible with the map setup. That is applying pressure.
I swear man, there are games where I feel like im doing everything well, ending chases fast, pressure on all gens etc.. but still end up 2 hooking everyone and everyone escapes cuz of bs time wasters like adrenaline and DS. Ifs just annoying man
I don't mind the high risk high reward aspect of killer, it's just survivor is low risk and high reward and with so many get out of jail free cards, killer feels worse than it is
I think that Survivor perks need to be more balanced. Making more of their perks on the same level, this way you don't vs the same unfun survivor builds. But also most killer powers are strong, yet most of the killer perks are completely useless.
@@xavierforget I'd much rather have weak perks for killer but great base power with strong add ons this way it changes the play style for the killer, and honestly it's just the 4 big offenders when it comes to survivor perks: ds, bt, unbreakable and adrenaline, a good ds rework has been mentioned on his videos a bit but bt and unbreakable I have no clue what to change them too and adrenaline I think should be with door opening not final gen.
@@stannisthemannis8694 BT can't be changed to me, since it's the only perk that actively counters tunnelling and camping. Devs will never have the guts to change that. DS could be changed, since there are a lot more complaining about it. Unbreakable should only allow you to get up once you're 12 meters away from a killer, it would still counter hard slugs, but not slugs because "survivors are nearby and trying to get my attention."
@@stannisthemannis8694 Maybe with unbreakable, the survivor can only get up if their not in the killer's terror radius? Borrowed Time, is a hard one to figure out. I really like the DS rework idea that trully makes it an anti-tunnel perk. Adrenaline should simply be, you get the speed boost if you're not injured and if you're injured you get healed, and you recover from exhaustion? These are on the spot ideas that I just thought of, though they're more then likely bad. A good start to a discussion though.
I think as a survivor you can just play the game and learn form your mistakes pretty much every match, but as killer you often end up with survivors outside you skill range and learn very little or just nothing besides that "this sucks and seems unfair" and then you probably need to go online and look up slow down perks and which add-ons you should run, etc.
"If both play perfectly"... The thing here is: The goal. If you get, like... 40s+ extra out of the chase before you go down, isn't that a win for the survivor, not the killer? The thing is: The game is asymmetrical AND on a clock. Chases are not necessarily about preventing hits, but more about wasting time. Killer time is invaluable compared to the time of a single surv.
I mean if ur getting that 40s by dropping god pallet after god pallet (on Gideon's or something) then that isn't necessarily a survivor win, as every chase after that will be a lot harder
9:48 your forgetting one key aspect of the game though, Resources. Sure the killers are fighting against the clock but the survs are fighting a game of attrition.
@@FabricatedModeration Time is tight for killers, though. They of course always win if it turns to attrition - but it takes a while until those resources matter. They are the sort of resources that only start to matter once there are very few left. Eating pallets has never been a winning strategy, after all.
@@TheSorrowfulAngel Time is certainly tight for Killer, some more than others of course but a killer doesn't need to eat every pallet to deprive Survivors of resources, knock out one or two good pallets and set up a dead zone in a strategic location and you shouldn't need to worry about the remaining resources in most cases. there are exceptions of course but those mostly come from map generation.
I've encountered a shocking amount of people who say survivor by default is harder than killer because "killers can kill and don't really have to do anything" and "survivors actually have to do objectives" ... It irritates me every time I see this.
I can get where this is coming from if they are solo survivors, the killer can find you first and if he wants to Heavy patrol/Tunnel of hook you have little to no choice but to die. This will likely throw the entire match for the killer, but at that point, the survivor doesn't care because his experience has already been ruined.
Don't listen to them. You can literally sit and do nothing as survivor and still win. (Unless your other 3 teammates decide to potato) As killer, not really.
@@CherubiJubell When I see people make comments like that it just goes in one ear and out the other. I've been playing for 3 years and most of the people I see say these things have maybe a few months of playtime. It's still irritating though lol
Of course killer will be easy at low ranks my first game ever i 4k lol it's easy when players don't know wtf a pallet is or sometimes they try to escape on hook because they don't know it's only a 4% chance
I would like to see each survivor to have a passive unique bonus,like: Nea:Natturaly has 20% more speed while crouched or 25% less cooldown when falling Ace:Naturaly has 3% more luck
I agree. When I first picked up the game, that’s how I assumed it worked and felt dumb playing Claudette when “Feng is the tech person”, but I quickly learned that after level 40, every survivor is basically just a skin
I always thought teachable perks should be limited to tier 1 or just not in the game *at all* for survivors but it's much too late for that. Passive bonuses for survivors and killers would be nice.
My idea similar to this is if you take a survivor's 3 teachable perks on the relevant survivor your 4th perk is automatically a secret perk that's relevant but powerful, e.g. with a Med-Kit Claudette can heal herself up from Dying state, or Meg can lower exhaustion whilst running at 10% of normal rate, etc.
Survivors can stack up second chance perks especially in swf that’s annoying as killer devs wanna nerf synergy between slowdown perks but not second chance perks
Because the real powerful perk are only a single use, while killers have a similar perk that they can use essentially forever. Dont believe me? 1. DS - Pop Goes The Weasel. DS stops the killer for 5 second and extends chase. Pop Goes the Weasel gets survivors off a generator, removes from 9 up to 20 seconds away of each generator(depending on how many people worked on it, and starts a chase. And can be repeated up to 12 times in the game for a total of from 110 up to 240 seconds. Both work based off the hook, have similar impacts on the game and essentially have the same outcome. 2. Adrenaline - NOED I mean, this is the obvious one. They both go in effect at the exact same time, remove or add damage to something, not really debatable. 3. Dead Hard - well, this is just the same speed as a vanilla Lunge and requires being injured, let alone not really being a second chance perk if you know the survivor is very likely to have it. You dont really require perks to lunge. 4. Unbreakable - again, a counter to a vanilla Slug. You dont require perks to slug. If you leave a survivor on the floor for longer than the survivor needs to pick himself up. You were already using him as heal-bait and he could have been picked up by a teammate anyway. Not exactly a second chance, altho its a really good support perk overall. 5. I mean, I guess BT, but if they can pull off a BT, they either pre-planned it or you've been (proxy)camping. Both arent really fixing up a mistake.
@@Predated2 You're not realizing the strength of combining these perks. It's so aggravating when somebody with borrowed time rushes the hook while also having DS active. Add unbreakable to that and they are literally unstoppable. Whether they're single use or not, they will make you lose the game if you humor any of that BS. What killer perk is on par with a TEAM of that. Also, dead hard is the definition of a second chance. It allows you to make pallets or windows that wouldn't have been possible without it. Killers only have NOED as a BS perk. I see pop as essential versing good survivors because it's simply not possible to win without regression unless you want to slug.
I'd argue that most of the killer characters make up for the perks strength difference with their Powers. Sure there are glaring exceptions to that like Clown, but generally the killer's power breaches the gap.
@@Clown_the_Clown But you need to survive to end game to even have the perk activate, for noed you just need to lose. Plus in solo queue almost no one looks for totems, unless they have a build for it
I have no excuse for being as bad as I am as survivor. Can't loop and always bumping in stuff. Only 3 months played but still. Sucks for me because survivor is so much more fun for me. So I play killer when I get too frustrated and pretend I'm decent just cuz I'm 10 ranks higher on killer.
@@yeahhbuddy3932 really don't understand it. Being goofy is different than standing in the exit gates for 3 minutes. I just deny them satisfaction by ignoring people that taunt and never going to the exit. I imagine they're at least a little aggravated.
Killer: Start a match and try to kill people asap!!! Survivor: mhmm that chest! wow a shiny totem! lets great my buddy over there with a sweet butt dance
@@daskaninchen ah yes I shall not do the only objective (genrushing) and wander around breaking totems and opening chests. Look I'm a killer main and genrushing is one of the dumbest terms that I hear all the time it's the only objective what else are they supposed to do?
Oliver Traister I mean, I play Surv mostly, so I agree with you, I don‘t have anything else to do, but at least I try and do alot of totems (I mean inner strength is also one of my favourite perks soo) and try to get an item, but I really like it when the killer recognizes that we are slowing down a bit, so he also does. And yes, I had rounds where Survs try to slow down, had a game against a deathslinger were we did like not one single gen in two minutes, and he just didn‘t down anyone in this time and still complained about genrush... Dude, u had two minutes to down someone...
@@traister101 As for me, tunneling is the most dumbest term that i heared. I am a killer and it's my only objective to kill every single survivor, so why i supposed to let you go after hook? Or why i just can't slug you? Oh, yeah, right, cuz it's boring for you.
survivor mistakes can be very impactful as well If somebody is hooked in the basement and you are going to get him, but step into a trap. The killer (in this case a Trapper) can get you and has two people hooked in the basement. At this point the game is already lost. Survivors will never finish the gens and only one might escape through the hatch. Ant it all comes down to one "little" mistake by one single survivor.
Yeah what the hell is this point. "listen dude, survivor mistakes are impactful, if all 4 of us get slugged by Oni and noone has unbreakable, the game is lost" tf
Okay, my first dbd idea ever but here it goes: Make the generator completion times scale with the size of the map. Special multiplier applied for maps with multiple levels.
Wouldn’t work, killers like spirit, nurse, billy and most killers with STBFL could easily cross the map in no time. Bit unfair to slower killers than survivors.
Merely increasing gen speed bluntly like that is a bad idea because all it would really do is make survivor less enjoyable, the real way to fix game speed/length is to add more mandatory objectives for survivors to do rather than just find a gen and hold down M1.
But Scooooot how am I supposed to win every time if I can't hide my insecurities behind a shroud of entitlement and strawmam arguements about how the killer is supposed to be scary?!
@@matttale7918 Dude. This game isn't even slightly scary after the first day or two. Yes the "Horror" aspect is what the game was meant to be originally, but it quickly evolved into what it is today. I guarantee you if the horror aspect actually played a part in the balance of this game the game would've died a long ass time ago.
I think a lot of killer mains forget that 1 survivor can make enough mistakes to screw over the entire game. So even if 3/4 survivors dont make any mistake at all, that 1 in 4 will either make enough mistakes to force the remaining survivors to try and patch his mistakes. Meaning that as a survivor, you need to have the capability to fix the mistake that other people have made. While as a killer, all mistakes made were your own fault. And as some people might be aware off. People are terrible at accepting their own mistakes, let alone admitting they were the one who made the mistake in the first place. This is personally why I believe that killer mains tend to be overall slightly more toxic in behavior. Because they dont want to blame themselves for their mistakes and project that on survivors. While survivors often are only truly toxic in chat when everyone made mistakes and no one patched any of them up. Not including things that basically negate all previous mistakes made and could make even the most skillful players lose the match, like a late game killer vs a key or survivors vs an ebony mori. Those could make anyone toxic. Basically, if all survivors have 25% of mistakes each, then they either all die or all survive. If one of them has 50% of the mistakes, then the remaining 3 survivors share the other 50% of the mistakes, while also getting punished for the mistakes their teammate has made. Survivor mistakes are made as a team, even if all survivors are playing selfish.
true, the one i see most often is people going for those unhooks at the worst times just so they can get tokens on We're gonna live forever. It ends up getting other players killed prematurely, and they don't do gens, and then just try and get out through hatch. But that why i think its not arguable that survivors are more toxic. For starters there are 4 of them to the 1 killer, casuals are more likely to play them, and as a survivor you also have them be toxic to you. Ive never had to much trouble with killers being toxic other than face camping, a time when i wish my team would just slam gen so this guy only get a 1K.
@@outlaw451 Well, a killer has 4 individuals to be toxic towards, so as a survivor, its also a point of misunderstanding. I could, as a killer, not find any survivor for 1 whole minute and then find the one who was unhooked 1 minute ago and chase that person again. To that person, depending on my terror radius, it could seem like I was tunneling that whole minute and just couldnt find where he was hiding. In turn, that survivor assumes I am toxic and therefor assumes the build I have is toxic, and in return would probably be more toxic in his behaviour. Essentially: It makes sense from the survivor POV why they end up playing more toxic later game, which is why I dont really count that kind of toxicity. My definition of toxicity is people going in the match, fully intending to ruin the game for their opposition. But those should not be misinterpreted with safety measures against toxic players An extreme example of this could be like iri hatchet+infantry belt huntress with deerstalker+nurses is never fun to go against, but very useful to use against sweaty SWF, then you could decide to use it's effect less by getting m1's and only using your instadown on long range targets or injured targets. Essentially, non-toxic players would have access to a nuke but decide not to use it unless they need it(for example, not body blocking or working on gens in front of the killer because of DS). While toxic players would use their nuke whenever the option arises.
I think it in the same way than a fighting game fundamentally. If both play perfectly nothing ever happens thats why there exists a term called "conditioning" and its when you do something that forces options on the other person and now they have to come to the best answer given the situation and in DbD it already starts just from walking to a gen and now they have to respond one goes off to a loop you decide to take the chase because its safe now you moonwalk and the survivor has to respond to that you rev chainsaw on palette now they have to respond to that and each time you force by your action for them to respond its an interaction that asks for skill and theres always stuff killer can do sure with disadvantages but most of the games usually tend to be reactive favored anyways, having a correct answer solves the question but sometimes the questions just too good. At least thats what i think also i really love listening to these educational videos Scott thanks for these!
A majority of professional sports simply comes down to the mentality of "I know that my opponent is of similar skill to me, how can I either force them to make a mistake or capitalize on the ones they make?" To say that it isn't a skill is discrediting a majority of what competition is, at its roots
"Because when he hooks the person it's not like he sees everybody on the map go, 'oh shit I gotta save this guy now'" *BBQ and Chili has entered the chat*
So, a perk slot must be used to prove this wrong, and only from 40m out. While survivors immediately see where the down happened, and where their teammate is hooked.
@@silentcalling You can choose 4 of them, and it's not like it's a bad perk either. It's probably the best standalone information perk in the game. Also, Killer gets to see where every generator in the game is, while survivors can't, but nobody complains about that imbalance of information sharing. Knowing where the objectives you need to defend are is very different from knowing where the objectives you need to complete are. Knowing the first slows the game down, while knowing the second speeds the game up. Both Killers and Survivors only know where their objectives to defend are, and perks/items that let you know about objectives to complete are limited in availability or power. When they aren't, you're going to tilt the game's balance heavily to the side that gets that information.
@Xela Flow If we're going to strawman, then I doubt a person that thinks Deerstalker gives more information than BBQ has any legitimacy deciding what's right or wrong. However, I don't need to strawman to make an argument. You're going to argue that BBQ has never been a strong killer perk, yet its very existence will make people stop doing objectives to get into a locker to avoid detection. It's so commonly used that some people will get into a locker upon a Survivor getting picked up just to cover the possibility of BBQ. It's part of why it is such a strong perk. It has no obvious tell when a killer has it, so you have to guess playing around it. By playing around it, you slow down gen progression to deny information. Guess what that's accomplishing? Exactly what Thrilling Tremors does. Forced the Survivors to decide between giving information to the killer to continue objectives, or forgo objectives to deny information. And you could easily be stopping objectives for no reason because you have no way of knowing for sure if BBQ is actually in play. You could remove the bonus bloodpoints from BBQ, and it would still be used because it is a good perk. Is it the best? Definitely not for every killer, but it is extremely consistent across most killers. It's because of that consistency that it gets used commonly, and it's because it is used commonly with no tell on its existence that it becomes even more powerful. There's only one other information perk that I can think of with a similar combination of power, popularity, secrecy, and standalone efficacy, and that's Discordance. It's the only other information perk I would consider as having contention for best information perk.
@Xela Flow You can't say everything you said was valid when it's very easy to prove that BBQ gives more information that at least one aura reading perk. Heck, I made that "wall of text" to explain why it's better than most, if not all other, information perks, but I doubt you bothered to read it. You're just expressing your opinion with no evidence or supporting claims, and dismissing any evidence against your opinion as "the embodiment of mental illness". You can confidently leave the discussion because you never had any inclination to make it one. Also, that's ad hominem, not strawman. Strawman is deliberately misrepresenting a position to make it easier to rebuke. Ad hominem is an attack against the speaker rather than the argument. So that's another thing you've said that isn't valid.
My issue comes down to how much a survivor can get a second chance. I waste a minute chasing a guy, they mess up but it doesnt matter because dead hard. I down them, the survivor can get pallet saved, flashlight saved, wiggle, sabo, DS. Any one of those can waste anywhere from 10 seconds to 2 minutes of effort that i put in. And thats just when I pick someone up.
I never hear people give credit to survivors who can play really well against certain killers. Bubba and Billy CRUSH me, but I can run a decent Huntress for quite a while. Sure, you learn how to play "survivor", but that's like saying that playing any one killer makes you good at just killing survivors. There's strategy to both sides depending on what killer you're up against.
i love watching these videos as much as i think you love making them. It's rare to get real people with real empathy that will evaluate situations with as little bias as humanly possible. You're awesome, love all your videos.
@@MattHazard95 I think Dead space 1 and 2 are pretty close games. Objectively dead space 2 had smoother gameplay, controls and added new weapons/enemies. However, Dead space 1 was longer and had much better atmosphere/horror. You just don’t get that feeling of hopelessness in dead space 2. While the Uber morph was cool it was pretty much the hunter from ds1. For me I’d take dead space 1 because I like the atmosphere, horror and levels more. The gameplay of ds1 was really good still. Both are great games.
@@dominickchuka5387 Scott is an ex Dark Souls content creator, yeah. Sometimes people also refer to DS for darksiders. And all of them had 3 mainline games.
'When killer makes a mistake he get's massive disadvantage and when survivor makes a mistake it's not that big of a deal' - I don't really have an issue with this. What I do have issue with are numerous perks that allow survivors to recover without any assistance with no downside so Small PP build.
Bro I'm a solo survivor main and that shit is easy 😂 I prefer solo over swf shits easy as hell. Just make a notification at the beginning, and get the killer on you. Done. You won if you can loop and your team knows gens.
All mindgames are is the killer baiting a survivor into making a mistake, and mindgames are the base DBD chase experience that gets thrown into everyone's faces.
Killer is harder, but solo queue comes close. I play both sides and can safely say killer is much more difficult, and honestly I’d much rather play survivor most of the time. It’s just painfully difficult and annoying sometimes to lose to people because gens got done in freaking 3 minutes. (Fr gen speeds are awful in this game)
I took a break from this game for 5 months, come back and one of my first games, they lopped 4 gens in about 2 minutes (I didn't even have time to hit a surv once) and it wasn't even high ranks, it was a rank 16 game. At that point, I remembered exactly why I didn't want to play the game
@@tescobag5704 yeah that crap is friggin stupid. The issue is that its so easy to do gens and they don’t have enough drawbacks or difficulty to make them more balanced. Then you got resilience, prove thyself, toolboxes, bnps, stake out, fast track, etc. it’s all dumb
I think when players say that survivor is less punishing when messing up they mean that immediate mistakes can be fixed in real time (second chance perks). Killers don’t have many second chance perks as survivors do and so killers who are exposed to those perks often will claim that it’s unfair. In my opinion killer is definitely harder because you’re playing solo. Like a survivor in a 1 v 1 at a bad loop if you mess up you will always have a consequence for it. While the game is more difficult when playing alone, either killer or survivor, you have to learn to adapt to bad situations and take advantage of your power and the map even when it’s against you, you can almost always find a way to win a chase.
I'd post a video like this too if I got spun by a Quentin Real talk, impressive you hadn't been spun in 3 years, and I'm glad you got spun because this is now a great meme I couldnt live my life without, just like this run-on sentence here, which I will stop now. Much live, Scond Jutt
I like Scott because he really tries his best to be objective with his understanding. Killer is 100% harder to play. That's a fact. But I like that he also considers about how the game is actually way harder for survivor than most killers think.
Paulina Yeah that’s very true, when I play solo queue every game plays the same. Meghead continuously goes down, Claudette with key is never found and plays extremely cautious, Ace/Nea with flashlight who never does gens, and me.
regarding killer and survivor mistakes. problem is that survivor mistakes are less punishing. here's an example: like scott said, killer does mistake - survivor can loop additional 20 seconds. you down survivor in 20 seconds. at this time, 3 survivors were just pressing m1, and it's 60s gen progress from 1 mistake. that's 15% of survivor objective from just 1 mistake. what does killer get from survivors mistake? a hook. in a perfect world killer needs 12 hooks, and that's ~8% of killers objective. but there is another catch, killer ideally gets a hook, but in reality (with most killers) survivors mistake = 1 hit, or injure. so in the end if survivor does a mistake, and killer gets a hit on him that's only ~4% of his objective
"When a killer makes a mistake, it's super obvious. The survivor gets away. You watch him go away, and it sucks. When a survivor makes a mistake, nothing happens because small pp." Also, if there are many maps in the game which favor survivors, but few that favor killers, that does count as survivor being overpowered. It is not necessarily true that killers will always be punished harder than survivors. There is no reason why there can't be more mechanics to mitigate killer mistakes. I can imagine a hypothetical situation where survivors are overly punished for mistakes, therefore, the balance of the game is not an artifact of asymmetry which can't be changed. If there is a hypothetical version of the game which overly punishes killers, and a hypothetical version of the game which overly punishes survivors, then there is a hypothetical version of the game which would assign appropriate punishment to every player.
@Dod o I think that no map should favor anyone. Ideally, every map would provide enough resources for the survivors that the game stays fair and exciting, while not depriving the killers of all map pressure.
I feel like the bigger problem is that survivors can individually play as good or better than the killer can in most cases and when you get to the point where all 4 of them are like that then you are beyond screwed.
Poor fucking Evolve man, that game was the closest to getting it right but got absolutely slaughtered by bad marketing and then left for dead(get it?) and became a shitshow. Loved the hell out of Evolve when it came out.
Late to this video but I survivor going down isn’t necessarily a win for the killer. It’s the survivors goal to loop you for as long as possible. A ~30 second chase is an W for the survivor given their team was actually doing gens as an example
Exactly, if the other 3 survs are on gens, thats almost half of the gen. That being said, I want killer to be harder, what I don't want is the survivors being capable of stripping the killer of their power over them. That takes the unfairness to a whole other level
It’s not really fitting for this video, but do you think that a “gen rush” could be “fixed” by having 1-2 guaranteed 1 person gens, and have it in a strong place?
Isnt going to do anything when the whole premise of "Gen rushing" is having everyone on separate gens. And if you're going to put "1 person" gens in a strong place, you're just gonna make "gen rushing" worse, since it double reinforces doing a gen by yourself for efficiency.
It probaly would help, because gen rushing is doing generators with so many survivors and engineer-toolboxes with brand new parts as possible and then go to the next generator. Everyone doing one generator (without toolboxes) is doing generators as fast and effective as possible, but not really gen rushing, because it could happen in a normal match while everyone is solo q and don't know that anyone else is doing a generator. But gen rushing with your friends will still be faster than doing the gens as effective you could do without a toolbox or/and in solo q.
Peaple on diferent gens does make the game better, It really makes the game slower and more Fun for both sides, peaple complain about slug, but thats the only thing killers can do to buy some time. Anyone that plays killer against not good survivors but survivors that Focus only on gens knows that killers dont have time to make 12 hooks without slugging
2 guys go to next gen 1 Guy saves If someone else get chased they do the gens with three people again, the solo q guys probaly go saving with 2 people (because no information) the other gets chased -> No one does gens after save(+heal) they so gens alon again 80s each or together Like the swf
Hey I don't have much to add to the convo, I just wanted to say you put out some of the most informative videos on dbd out there. You communicate very well and your opinions are very well thought out. Thank you!
I guess my question would be when he refers to "survivors", is he talking about solo que or SWF. Because solo que and SWF are basically 2 different game modes. I would say solo gue in general is harder than killer but SWF is miles easier.
I would only partially agree, if ur teamates are bad as randoms ur just screwed. Skill goes out the window usually. With good teamates its still moderately easier than killer. With SWF my god how can you ever lose?
This is a really good opinion on survivor and killer gameplay. Killers are harder to play but I wouldn’t say they’re stronger or weaker than survivors. - Some killers take more skill to play and it’s a lot more to focus on being you’re 1 person vs a team but I’ll tell you right now if you have the skill and can focus on multiple things you’ll have an easy time playing killer. Plus it’s easier to get points on killer. Same goes for survivor if you’re playing alone off comms it’s extremely harder to play or escape.
Imo capitalizing on mistakes is a skill but it's not one that's actually based off your own skill. This makes it less you being skilled and more them not being skilled.. It's like winning a race by the other person tripping.. Yeah you still ran and that's a skill but did you really win?
I agree Scott, I play both killer and survivor and I’m happy that you said this, it’s unfortunate that whenever I say it I’m called an entitled survivor main just cause I play survivor slightly more
The skill of a survivor is doing a gen in front of the killer with DS active. If you play often as killer, you see How much these "get out of jail free card" makes them escape a Lot, because you can have downs Very fast and still see gens pop left and right because you dont need to make chases too long with the killer, If you take 30s Chase and survivors are on gens, the game is pretty much over
@DonJuan Yates It depends really, you gonna look for someone else on the map like "red Forest"? Some maps are huge, thats another problem, more for weak killers, If you play Freddy,Spirit DS is not that much of a issue. However, If I start a match and can down someone before a gen done and he gets unhooked in front of me(happens a Lot), I take the DS, because It only becomes a problem mid/late game. Its situational as always.
@Dod o If you can do a gen in front of the killer without any consequence thats not a "anti-tunneling" perk. It never was, It was always a Second chance perk. The only reason peaple say its anti-tunneling is because its active after unhook. I didnt played this game like 2 years ago, but I saw How DS was back then and It was so stupid, basically a free get away after First down
I get what you're saying about the whole "Killers have to wait for mistakes thing" and I think I can add to that. Imagine a survivor on the map with all the resources available to him. No matter how well he plays, there's only a certain amount of "moves" he can make to avoid the killer. (Loop, drop pallet, read mind game correctly, etc). Assuming the survivor can reach every loop without being hit, he's limited to those amount of moves before he takes the hit inevitably. But that's only 1 survivor. 3 other survivors are using those resources too. By the time the 1st survivor gets to a loop, he might only have a couple of loops to deal with and some dead zones all around. Now you've limited the amount of "moves" the survivor can make to avoid the killer and his inevitable damage will come sooner. I guess this would be the bigger picture of Scott's example. *[TLDR] Killers DO have to wait for mistakes to be made, BUT, they can also reduce the amount of moves a survivor can make to get the down quicker. Easier said than done though.*
@@jisification9148 Yes exactly, all those contribute to a killer forcing outcomes or a survivor making a mistake. Killers move faster yes, that's why they'll always catch up, otherwise they never would. Bloodlust takes time, a lot of time. The killer doesn't have the luxury of going for Bloodlust every chase. A really good team of survivors that focus on gens needs 4-6 mins to do all the gens. Survivors have perks and addons like the killer so both sides need to take those things into account. Same with the powers, that's what makes the Nurse and Spirit so strong when played at an incredible level. They have the potential to take moves away from the survivor without affecting the map. The rest need to affect the map in some way to play them effectively. Those are definitely all variables to add into the mix. But the main bulk of gameplay for most killers is looping. If you can't end chases quick then you will likely not get a 4k as the killer against an optimal team.
@@ScottJund Lol sorry if it came off that way, I didn't put too much thought into the language I guess, I certainly meant it as a positive / funny thing. You wouldn't think a body of players who play the role of a "killer" would need self-esteem... But hey, more messages like these can go a long way in persuading many people. Continue to be a strong voice of reason in this community my guy
Overall, I agree that, as a killer, you gotta learn more things, like map control and when to slug, patrol, etc. But in a chase, the skill you require as a survivor is much higher than the one you need as a killer. To become a survivor that knows how to loop, counter powers (not throwing the pallet when it's a huntress, pre-throwing the pallet when it's a doctor), takes way more hours than to know how to path as a killer. Also, we gotta acknowledge that when it's a 4v1, obviously the survivors have higher chance of winning, but in a 1v1, where the killer is much stronger than you, there is way more things you gotta do in order to avoid getting down.
(I haven't seen your video, just the text and I will say this) I think that it depends on how you deal with the game, to me, Survivor is harder than killer. I cannot run away or survive most of the time, I keep my distance but I always get found, I can't help other people and in every chase I been in, the killer will always gets me. while for killer, while it is hard sometimes, you can be very skillful, I can play as nearly all the killers and still be good, each of them having a unique power while for me, survivors are all the same, so there isn't much variety other than the perks. I can be wrong with this, but I think how you can handle survivor or killer is depends on how your teamwork skills are, if you can work with others or have friends in games that you can work greatlly with, then survivors would be a good role, if you're a solo player who has a lack of gaming friends and can't work well with others in games, then your better off as killer, which explains why I am better as a killer than a survivor. this is just my thoughts on the subject, all I'll say is it's okay who you main or good at, there is no overall agreement, it's just that people play differently than others and that's okay
I’ve agreed with this, even before I joined the community. I’ve always thought, “Killers need addons to do good, and in turn they get more bloodpoints, while survivor doesn’t need items and therefore they generally get less bloodpoints
It’s true it only takes one clumsy survivor to bring down the entire trial and of course being killer should be hard it’s suppose to be strategic but I would argue survivor is harder than killer because you have learn how to loop and mind game, when to use pallets, how to go about prevent a 3 gen situation, and how counter the killer. There’s a skill level for both sides. I feel like a lot of killer mains don’t play survivor well and a lot of survivor mains aren’t good killers someone that is good on both is a well rounded player. For instance im a ghost face (and pig) main and I know all his little tips and tricks, what addons I think he’s running and when to knock him out of stalk. A player that plays well on both sides has a good level of skill in the game
-Realizing I said this once as killer- Father of bread forgive me for I have sinned... But thanks I enjoyed these videos you’re making. It really helps me get a new perspective on DBD. I wish others did this as well just voice their opinions as well. Good day or night for you Scott.
Yes, I agree with the “same skill caps”, as a Freddy main, I know that, unless using forever Freddy, that he can get destroyed, even with pop, his power is similar to hag’s, you can place them around loops and the outcome is the same, with Freddy, even with the slow down, it’s not enough, with hag, it’s nearly to late to react, both are somewhat similar, since the master survivor can and will always win against the two killers, which brings me to the question: “why is Freddy “boring”?”, the answer is the way he can break the game is just...too much, if he uses normal perks and add ons then he’s fine, maybe a bit cheesy at times but still fine, but then we get into murky territory with his red add ons, his quirks (like countering bt) and...well, the paint brush and swing chain add ons, legend has it that if you even consider this combo, you get instant -rep on your steam account, even if your profile is private
DonJuan Yates what does a rank 18 Freddy mean? Rank doesn’t represent skill, and yeah, he’s strong and easy...to play as, that is, but a killer being easy doesn’t mean that he’s “unfair”, each killer should feel unique in more than just power, and I know Freddy used to be unique, but the wrong way, he was annoyingly bad, now he’s fine good, he isn’t even s tier, because his anti loop is, again, not strong enough, unlike nurses who just ignores walls Also you didn’t say all the perks of the Freddy, the add ons, your own perks and your own items, maybe that rank 18 Freddy had all the meta perks, maybe your team wasn’t as good as you think, there’s so many variables that are in your control that can make or break Freddy
Agreed I dont play killer as much but killer being the harder role kinda makes sense. Since most survivor players are more casual making the role easier makes sense. They need 4 survivors to every one killer. But playing survivor does take skill considering most survivors on xbox are not great. The only brainless thing is playing on midwich
2:00 its not easier to get to a decent level of survivor than as killer. In fact, it's the other way around. If 4 survivors with 500h playtime face a killer with 500h playtime, they will get demolished. Here is why: 1. survivor gets much less chase interacting than killer in each trial 2. survivor need to learn to counter all killers, while the killer only needs to be good at one 3. survivors need to adapt to the killers play style and strategy, while the killer is the one in control. There is just more variety to the killer's perk build and strategy than to the survivor's. And hit validation is on the killer's side, which makes it easier to learn the timing in chases for killer. 3. is obviously debatable, but it's safe to say that an 800 hour spirit main is better than an 800 hour survivor main. And this has an influence on the balance of the game.
7:00 this is bad example, because if every chase in game is like this, killer gets genrushed in 4 minutes - this actually prooves the point that killer can only capitalize on mistakes (except nurse and spirit, maybe deathslinger too).
On top of capitalizing on mistakes, I think coercing survivors into making more mistakes you can punish is also a really important skill that killers have to learn
I agree with this 100%, but I think we also have to bring into account the element of fun. If a killer plays optimal, despite it being a less fun tactic, the game is actually pretty killer sided. IF a killer were to get a hook within the 1st minute of the game, tunnel that person so they die on first hook, and have 3 survivors left with 3-4 gens left the game is over, the killer won from that alone. This play isn't encouraged, but food for thought
People judge you a lot for being a contrarian but honestly I like that you're able to see all sides of every situation. Being able to argue with yourself and prove yourself wrong and right all at the same instance is the hardest thing but also the most respectable thing of just a human being in general.
Yeah the mistakes of survivors are 25%-100%. I had a match where a bubba downed someone in the open and I was hiding bear with a FL, and a Feng ran at him (why) and ran past me and I got seen. A few minutes later, 2 are hooked and I am the Feng are slugged. The mistakes of survivors are always kind of big, but as Scott said, have effect over the entire match.
Killer is way more stressful and hard to master or even learn how to play properly. Playing both sides completly changes your view on the game and everyone should do it but this will never happen. But beeing a good survivor is hard aswell you are right on that
I'll agree with the idea that if both sides play perfectly the killer still wins when killers get a set of perks that give them 3 second chances per chase to fix their fuckups.
1:00 As as survivor you need to learn how to counter every single killer's power, but as a killer you just need to learn one killer. So it's the other way around of what you are saying. 1:15 As a survivor you also have to learn how to play against different strategies (hit and run, slugging, ...) different perk builds and so on. In my opinion these different possibilities make the game harder for survivors, but not for killers. As a Killer you can freely chose what to do, while as a survivor you need to identify and adapt to all those different playstyles, which are available to killers.
Lmao good try but your perks will get u out of jail free for all killers and most M1 killers require same counterplay, the others aren't hard to learn besides nurse and spirit
@@mckookie2967 That's what people think, but looking into the game, there are not too much basic M1 killers. Most killers do haven an ability, which helps in chase. So you need to learn how to loop specifically against them. And the killers without such a power still have an ability, which they use outside of chases. Even though chases are the same for them, you need to learn how to counter their ability strategically. Killers with power, used in chases: Nurse, Hillbilly, Huntress, Hag, Doctor, Leatherface, Freddy, Clown, Spirit, Demogorgon, Deathslinger, Pyramid Head Killers with power, mainly used outside of chases: Trapper, Wraith, Shape, Legion, Plaque, Ghostface, Oni Even the killers I put in the latter tier can use their power in chases. Wraith can try to use the undetectable effect and movement boost while uncloaking in chases. Shape and Ghostface will sometimes try to stalk while chasing you. Legion can chase you in his frenzy, Oni can chase you with his Dash, Plaque tries to vomit on you in chases, Trapper may have placed traps in strong loops on which you need to pay attention in chases. So actually looping is different against every fucking killer. There are some basic principles, which apply very often. But there is a lot to learn to counter every killer properly. And this obviously takes much more time, than learning how to use the ability of 4 killers, which you decide to play regularly
If a killer misses a swing, it's a "100%" mistake against the killer side. If a survivor misplays and gets hit its only "25%" of a mistake on the survivor team. Now add in the 2nd chances that survivor gets, and the "25%" mistake that a survivor makes by misplaying turns into a 100% killer mistake by whiffing a swing because of dead hard. Same kind of thing happens with DS, impacting "small" mistakes by the survivor and turning them into "large" ones for killer. This is where the imbalance lies, and why complaints about killer mistakes or misplays have such a huge impact on the game.
I love seeing my inbox having a video of Scott getting spun. And then the next video has the title, "killer is harder than survivor" by Scott
Killer mistake no.1: not dcing on Ormond.
Killer mistake no. 2 : not dcing on Haddonfield.
@@Schrank458 AHHHH MY FAVOURITE MAP BRO
@@Vivien-gg JAMES!
@@Vivien-gg Iᗰ ᒍᑌՏT TᖇYIᑎᘜ TO ᑭᒪᗩY ᗰY ᖴᗩᐯOᖇITᗴ KIᒪᒪᗴᖇ, ᗷᑌᗷᗷᗩ!
Killer mistake no.3: not dcing on Mother's Dwelling
I love the nurse hand, i take it as Behaviors Iron Grip on our wallets, well not scotts, M Cote gifted him infinity cells.
Legit?
@@blitzofuckzo over 200K, same thing with other fogwisperers
Lean Mean Obscene Meme Machine It was a bug, the devs said they would remove them but never did
He says he doesn't use them, he buys more if he wants to spend any and he is not a fog whisperer
Captain Barnark they didn’t say they would remove them they said to not spend it all at once
I don't think survivors should spawn right next to gens xD, Because, thats like the killer spawning right next to survivors, they have their objective right in front of them, and while the killer wastes time looking to start making progress on his objective, the survivors already have at least one gen 50%. Or make maps smaller, I dunno.
Edit: coming back to this comment, crazy amount of likes, a heart that I ost because of the edit ... Crazy.
Yeah on smaller maps, it might not be that big of a deal, depending on the rng spawn of the gen spread. Yet larger maps, that is when it can start to become a issue, for larger maps normally have gens spread out. Which can be rough on killers who can't get from point a to b quickly.
@@bluedragon8417 Yeah, If survivors know what they are doing, by the time you are done chasing someone, if you are really unlucky 3 gens can pop.
@@muffy7323 Yeah, that is true. If survivors know how to be effective on gens, gen can fly. For i team up with a group recently. It was massively different from solo q. We got gens done rather fast and quickly. It was insane how quickly we got them done.
Imagine you are a Trapper in Temple Of Purgation :D
@@bluedragon8417 Yep.
I would like to point out that while true that all survivors play the same and that killers all have varying unique powers, the survivors do also have to go against that power. Going against that power means learning how that power works just like the killer who is playing it, this includes stuff like addons which can force you to adjust your play accordingly. Of course I think the killer still has a harder time learning to use his power and addons as opposed to the survivor learning to counter it, I just find that people ignore this sometimes when they talk about survivor skill.
Yes sir! And that's why I believe the best players are (in general) the ones who play both roles.
But then there are also items like medkits that can almost negate the affect that your healing slowdown perks can get. Or if you have a brand new part even with corrupt you can crank a gen in no time rendering corrupt almost as wasted if it didnt give you 10 seconds because you cant chase multiple survivors at once and since they spawn together they will probably follow and just one part gives a stupid amount of speed
Baryon -_- things like corrupt and sloppy don’t have learned counterplay though. He’s talking about learning how to dodge hatchets nurse mind games etc.
I can't actually think of a power that requires skill can you give some examples
jisification huntress, death slinger, hag, trapper, nurse, spirit. Do you want me to list how they are skillful as well
ScottJund: *gets spun*
"Killer is Harder than Survivor (And That's Okay)
Killer is just more stressful for me personally. Even if I’m doing good, I’m at the edge of my seat the whole time. When I’m survivor, I know I can just kinda shit around and be fine with one of my several crutch perks.
Yep. Ironically survivor is a far more relaxed role than killer. Being only 25% of a team rather than 100% takes so much stress off on its own, and while most killers are heavily reliant on perks and addons, as survivor you can pretty much run whatever and still be extremely effective as long as Mouse 1 and shift works.
Combine this with how, if you have a terrible game as a survivor, like getting tunneled into mori, you'll just die and move on to the next game. Compare to a terrible game as killer, like all 4 survivors spawning on 4 different gens, and losing is a drawn-out process that usually results in 3-4 people stalling even further so they can all give their hot takes on your gameplay post-game.
@@chucklenuts_ 2 gens pop despite getting the first down in the first 50 seconds, "just apply pressure lmao"
@@joebrunton2682 The less gens, the more pressure a killer can have. Applying pressure doesnt mean "go visit every single generator". It means apply pressure where its important. If I ask you to apply pressure to break a twig, you would start applying it towards the middle, rather than at the ends, right? Then why would "Apply pressure" even make you consider to apply it equally to all gens?
Besides 2 gens gone is fine, you get the points you'll need for iridescent from 3 gens. Just try to make sure they do the furthest gens first to create the smallest generator area possible with the map setup. That is applying pressure.
I swear man, there are games where I feel like im doing everything well, ending chases fast, pressure on all gens etc.. but still end up 2 hooking everyone and everyone escapes cuz of bs time wasters like adrenaline and DS. Ifs just annoying man
@@Predated2 I understand the theory of a 3 gen lad im just agreeing with ops point about post game survivor hot takes by making a joke.
I don't mind the high risk high reward aspect of killer, it's just survivor is low risk and high reward and with so many get out of jail free cards, killer feels worse than it is
I think that Survivor perks need to be more balanced. Making more of their perks on the same level, this way you don't vs the same unfun survivor builds. But also most killer powers are strong, yet most of the killer perks are completely useless.
@@xavierforget I'd much rather have weak perks for killer but great base power with strong add ons this way it changes the play style for the killer, and honestly it's just the 4 big offenders when it comes to survivor perks: ds, bt, unbreakable and adrenaline, a good ds rework has been mentioned on his videos a bit but bt and unbreakable I have no clue what to change them too and adrenaline I think should be with door opening not final gen.
@@stannisthemannis8694 BT can't be changed to me, since it's the only perk that actively counters tunnelling and camping. Devs will never have the guts to change that. DS could be changed, since there are a lot more complaining about it. Unbreakable should only allow you to get up once you're 12 meters away from a killer, it would still counter hard slugs, but not slugs because "survivors are nearby and trying to get my attention."
@@stannisthemannis8694 Maybe with unbreakable, the survivor can only get up if their not in the killer's terror radius? Borrowed Time, is a hard one to figure out. I really like the DS rework idea that trully makes it an anti-tunnel perk. Adrenaline should simply be, you get the speed boost if you're not injured and if you're injured you get healed, and you recover from exhaustion?
These are on the spot ideas that I just thought of, though they're more then likely bad. A good start to a discussion though.
@@xavierforget iridecent button add on could then counter unbreakable for like 10 sec
I like how he worded it, it’s easy to learn to be a decent survivor then decent killer. That I can agree with
I think as a survivor you can just play the game and learn form your mistakes pretty much every match, but as killer you often end up with survivors outside you skill range and learn very little or just nothing besides that "this sucks and seems unfair" and then you probably need to go online and look up slow down perks and which add-ons you should run, etc.
"If both play perfectly"...
The thing here is: The goal. If you get, like... 40s+ extra out of the chase before you go down, isn't that a win for the survivor, not the killer?
The thing is: The game is asymmetrical AND on a clock. Chases are not necessarily about preventing hits, but more about wasting time. Killer time is invaluable compared to the time of a single surv.
I mean if ur getting that 40s by dropping god pallet after god pallet (on Gideon's or something) then that isn't necessarily a survivor win, as every chase after that will be a lot harder
@Blake Moss it takes time bro,just play more,you need to be consistent,so play everyday
9:48
your forgetting one key aspect of the game though, Resources. Sure the killers are fighting against the clock but the survs are fighting a game of attrition.
@@FabricatedModeration Time is tight for killers, though. They of course always win if it turns to attrition - but it takes a while until those resources matter. They are the sort of resources that only start to matter once there are very few left.
Eating pallets has never been a winning strategy, after all.
@@TheSorrowfulAngel Time is certainly tight for Killer, some more than others of course but a killer doesn't need to eat every pallet to deprive Survivors of resources, knock out one or two good pallets and set up a dead zone in a strategic location and you shouldn't need to worry about the remaining resources in most cases. there are exceptions of course but those mostly come from map generation.
Some people say survivor takes no skill.
To them I say, then why am I so bad?
Check mate atheists.
You clearly have -5 skill. Your teammates are worse because of your presence. Totally 100%
I've encountered a shocking amount of people who say survivor by default is harder than killer because "killers can kill and don't really have to do anything" and "survivors actually have to do objectives" ... It irritates me every time I see this.
Lol wut killing is the objective...
And how hard is doing gens honestly? Lmao you sit there and hold a button
I can get where this is coming from if they are solo survivors, the killer can find you first and if he wants to Heavy patrol/Tunnel of hook you have little to no choice but to die.
This will likely throw the entire match for the killer, but at that point, the survivor doesn't care because his experience has already been ruined.
Don't listen to them.
You can literally sit and do nothing as survivor and still win. (Unless your other 3 teammates decide to potato)
As killer, not really.
@@CherubiJubell When I see people make comments like that it just goes in one ear and out the other. I've been playing for 3 years and most of the people I see say these things have maybe a few months of playtime. It's still irritating though lol
A killer's objective is to stop the gens from being done. Killing just so happens to be the way to do that.
"KILLER IS THE EASIEST ROLE IN THE GAME I HAVE MORE HOURS THAN YOU I'M RIGHT"
-My idiot survivor main friend
Of course killer will be easy at low ranks my first game ever i 4k lol it's easy when players don't know wtf a pallet is or sometimes they try to escape on hook because they don't know it's only a 4% chance
@@gustavodelacruz646 then some survivors dont realise they have to spam struggle
Ye wdym holding 1 button on a gen for 80 seconds is very difficult
@@goose7158 survivor isnt only about that..looping is easy but looping tiles and chaining them is not that easy
@@zafid6077 ik I was just exaggerating
I would like to see each survivor to have a passive unique bonus,like:
Nea:Natturaly has 20% more speed while crouched or 25% less cooldown when falling
Ace:Naturaly has 3% more luck
I agree. When I first picked up the game, that’s how I assumed it worked and felt dumb playing Claudette when “Feng is the tech person”, but I quickly learned that after level 40, every survivor is basically just a skin
Honestly I always thought it would be better if survivors gained a bonus on their personal perks, even if it's a tiny one.
I always thought teachable perks should be limited to tier 1 or just not in the game *at all* for survivors but it's much too late for that. Passive bonuses for survivors and killers would be nice.
My idea similar to this is if you take a survivor's 3 teachable perks on the relevant survivor your 4th perk is automatically a secret perk that's relevant but powerful, e.g. with a Med-Kit Claudette can heal herself up from Dying state, or Meg can lower exhaustion whilst running at 10% of normal rate, etc.
that would be broken af and make the game even more survivor sided.
When you pick slow killers and you get red forest 😐
If you play death slinger it's gg
Me when I get Huntress on Mother's Dwelling: Ah, yes. _Homestage disadvantage._
Do you know how dumb you sound complaining about a killer moving literally 5% slower and pretending like that kills all of your map pressure
@@exxon101 I think it's more the map, not the 5% slower, but the 5% slower still makes it worse
@@exxon101 Even if you are a clown you still have 0 map pressure, its just furthermore elevated if you are a 110 killer.
Survivors can stack up second chance perks especially in swf that’s annoying as killer devs wanna nerf synergy between slowdown perks but not second chance perks
Because the real powerful perk are only a single use, while killers have a similar perk that they can use essentially forever.
Dont believe me?
1. DS - Pop Goes The Weasel.
DS stops the killer for 5 second and extends chase. Pop Goes the Weasel gets survivors off a generator, removes from 9 up to 20 seconds away of each generator(depending on how many people worked on it, and starts a chase. And can be repeated up to 12 times in the game for a total of from 110 up to 240 seconds. Both work based off the hook, have similar impacts on the game and essentially have the same outcome.
2. Adrenaline - NOED
I mean, this is the obvious one. They both go in effect at the exact same time, remove or add damage to something, not really debatable.
3. Dead Hard - well, this is just the same speed as a vanilla Lunge and requires being injured, let alone not really being a second chance perk if you know the survivor is very likely to have it. You dont really require perks to lunge.
4. Unbreakable - again, a counter to a vanilla Slug. You dont require perks to slug. If you leave a survivor on the floor for longer than the survivor needs to pick himself up. You were already using him as heal-bait and he could have been picked up by a teammate anyway. Not exactly a second chance, altho its a really good support perk overall.
5. I mean, I guess BT, but if they can pull off a BT, they either pre-planned it or you've been (proxy)camping. Both arent really fixing up a mistake.
@@Predated2 You're not realizing the strength of combining these perks. It's so aggravating when somebody with borrowed time rushes the hook while also having DS active. Add unbreakable to that and they are literally unstoppable. Whether they're single use or not, they will make you lose the game if you humor any of that BS. What killer perk is on par with a TEAM of that. Also, dead hard is the definition of a second chance. It allows you to make pallets or windows that wouldn't have been possible without it. Killers only have NOED as a BS perk. I see pop as essential versing good survivors because it's simply not possible to win without regression unless you want to slug.
I'd argue that most of the killer characters make up for the perks strength difference with their Powers. Sure there are glaring exceptions to that like Clown, but generally the killer's power breaches the gap.
@@yusufniamati278 NoED isn't even BS, it can be taken out of the game before it activates, unlike adrenaline
@@Clown_the_Clown But you need to survive to end game to even have the perk activate, for noed you just need to lose. Plus in solo queue almost no one looks for totems, unless they have a build for it
These videos are more entertaining than gameplay.
i live for these videos now. i feel like i'm learning so much just from listening to a guy talk about a video game
i just love watching your cats move around in the background, it's fun when they just pop in and i'm like "aaAAAH THE KITTY!"
Waiting on the "I'M A RANK 1 KILLER AND SURVIVOR AND I THINK..." comment.
I'm a rank 1 killer and survivor and I think that power without perception is spiritually useless and therefore of no true value.
those are always so annoying
We should start calling these videos "Scott Takes". Get it? It's like a hot take, but it's... Yeah nevermind, that's pretty bad.
Hey I've experienced worse puns at work. Good job making a good one.
@ominous should i turn emo, never mind, you probably wouldnt like it if i did D:
No, no, he’s got a point
One side is going to be harder and I prefer killer being harder. But some survivors have no excuse being as bad as they are.
I have no excuse for being as bad as I am as survivor. Can't loop and always bumping in stuff. Only 3 months played but still. Sucks for me because survivor is so much more fun for me. So I play killer when I get too frustrated and pretend I'm decent just cuz I'm 10 ranks higher on killer.
@@tango33w I'll allow it
Killer mistake number 1: not dcing on midwich with 4 objects
4x OoO isnt really usefull tho. 1 is enough.
@@sirgando3774 tell it to them, they do it because they know you can't tunnel them all without a mori
Literally some people load up the game only to spoil other peoples fun.
@@yeahhbuddy3932 really don't understand it. Being goofy is different than standing in the exit gates for 3 minutes. I just deny them satisfaction by ignoring people that taunt and never going to the exit. I imagine they're at least a little aggravated.
I like the spinning t-shirt. Embracing your mistakes.
Killer: Start a match and try to kill people asap!!!
Survivor: mhmm that chest! wow a shiny totem! lets great my buddy over there with a sweet butt dance
I mean, some ppl just genrush. I‘m happy when u also do something else as surv, it slows down the game, so I can chill and don‘t have to tryhard.
@@daskaninchen ah yes I shall not do the only objective (genrushing) and wander around breaking totems and opening chests. Look I'm a killer main and genrushing is one of the dumbest terms that I hear all the time it's the only objective what else are they supposed to do?
Oliver Traister I mean, I play Surv mostly, so I agree with you, I don‘t have anything else to do, but at least I try and do alot of totems (I mean inner strength is also one of my favourite perks soo) and try to get an item, but I really like it when the killer recognizes that we are slowing down a bit, so he also does. And yes, I had rounds where Survs try to slow down, had a game against a deathslinger were we did like not one single gen in two minutes, and he just didn‘t down anyone in this time and still complained about genrush... Dude, u had two minutes to down someone...
@@traister101 then later Go on forums complaining about noed
@@traister101 As for me, tunneling is the most dumbest term that i heared. I am a killer and it's my only objective to kill every single survivor, so why i supposed to let you go after hook? Or why i just can't slug you? Oh, yeah, right, cuz it's boring for you.
scott: killer is harder than survivor
quentin: *proud quentin noises*
survivor mistakes can be very impactful as well
If somebody is hooked in the basement and you are going to get him, but step into a trap. The killer (in this case a Trapper) can get you and has two people hooked in the basement.
At this point the game is already lost. Survivors will never finish the gens and only one might escape through the hatch.
Ant it all comes down to one "little" mistake by one single survivor.
I mean this is pretty niche and most people don’t play trapper. But certain survivor errors can be costly
Yeah what the hell is this point. "listen dude, survivor mistakes are impactful, if all 4 of us get slugged by Oni and noone has unbreakable, the game is lost" tf
Okay, my first dbd idea ever but here it goes:
Make the generator completion times scale with the size of the map. Special multiplier applied for maps with multiple levels.
Its better just to make maps not be over 100 meters or in general not be so big at all.
@@krisbojin8669 especially ormond
Wouldn’t work, killers like spirit, nurse, billy and most killers with STBFL could easily cross the map in no time. Bit unfair to slower killers than survivors.
Merely increasing gen speed bluntly like that is a bad idea because all it would really do is make survivor less enjoyable, the real way to fix game speed/length is to add more mandatory objectives for survivors to do rather than just find a gen and hold down M1.
@@legizticz6360 seriously that map is busted. id rather take 10 haddonfields in a row than ormand
But Scooooot how am I supposed to win every time if I can't hide my insecurities behind a shroud of entitlement and strawmam arguements about how the killer is supposed to be scary?!
dBD iS A hiDe AnD SEek gAme!
The killer is supposed to feel like a killer, the irony being you seem more insecure than anyone you're talking about lmao
So the game should throw away its concept of ‘horror’ that it advertises itself as?
@@matttale7918 Dude. This game isn't even slightly scary after the first day or two. Yes the "Horror" aspect is what the game was meant to be originally, but it quickly evolved into what it is today. I guarantee you if the horror aspect actually played a part in the balance of this game the game would've died a long ass time ago.
@@DantesHaven Somebody can't take a joke.
I can listen to this guy talk all day with these videos. I'd never think this would be something i was looking for in this channel until it was made
I think a lot of killer mains forget that 1 survivor can make enough mistakes to screw over the entire game. So even if 3/4 survivors dont make any mistake at all, that 1 in 4 will either make enough mistakes to force the remaining survivors to try and patch his mistakes. Meaning that as a survivor, you need to have the capability to fix the mistake that other people have made. While as a killer, all mistakes made were your own fault. And as some people might be aware off. People are terrible at accepting their own mistakes, let alone admitting they were the one who made the mistake in the first place.
This is personally why I believe that killer mains tend to be overall slightly more toxic in behavior. Because they dont want to blame themselves for their mistakes and project that on survivors. While survivors often are only truly toxic in chat when everyone made mistakes and no one patched any of them up. Not including things that basically negate all previous mistakes made and could make even the most skillful players lose the match, like a late game killer vs a key or survivors vs an ebony mori. Those could make anyone toxic.
Basically, if all survivors have 25% of mistakes each, then they either all die or all survive. If one of them has 50% of the mistakes, then the remaining 3 survivors share the other 50% of the mistakes, while also getting punished for the mistakes their teammate has made. Survivor mistakes are made as a team, even if all survivors are playing selfish.
true, the one i see most often is people going for those unhooks at the worst times just so they can get tokens on We're gonna live forever. It ends up getting other players killed prematurely, and they don't do gens, and then just try and get out through hatch. But that why i think its not arguable that survivors are more toxic. For starters there are 4 of them to the 1 killer, casuals are more likely to play them, and as a survivor you also have them be toxic to you. Ive never had to much trouble with killers being toxic other than face camping, a time when i wish my team would just slam gen so this guy only get a 1K.
@@outlaw451 Well, a killer has 4 individuals to be toxic towards, so as a survivor, its also a point of misunderstanding. I could, as a killer, not find any survivor for 1 whole minute and then find the one who was unhooked 1 minute ago and chase that person again. To that person, depending on my terror radius, it could seem like I was tunneling that whole minute and just couldnt find where he was hiding.
In turn, that survivor assumes I am toxic and therefor assumes the build I have is toxic, and in return would probably be more toxic in his behaviour. Essentially: It makes sense from the survivor POV why they end up playing more toxic later game, which is why I dont really count that kind of toxicity. My definition of toxicity is people going in the match, fully intending to ruin the game for their opposition. But those should not be misinterpreted with safety measures against toxic players
An extreme example of this could be like iri hatchet+infantry belt huntress with deerstalker+nurses is never fun to go against, but very useful to use against sweaty SWF, then you could decide to use it's effect less by getting m1's and only using your instadown on long range targets or injured targets.
Essentially, non-toxic players would have access to a nuke but decide not to use it unless they need it(for example, not body blocking or working on gens in front of the killer because of DS). While toxic players would use their nuke whenever the option arises.
I think it in the same way than a fighting game fundamentally. If both play perfectly nothing ever happens thats why there exists a term called "conditioning" and its when you do something that forces options on the other person and now they have to come to the best answer given the situation and in DbD it already starts just from walking to a gen and now they have to respond one goes off to a loop you decide to take the chase because its safe now you moonwalk and the survivor has to respond to that you rev chainsaw on palette now they have to respond to that and each time you force by your action for them to respond its an interaction that asks for skill and theres always stuff killer can do sure with disadvantages but most of the games usually tend to be reactive favored anyways, having a correct answer solves the question but sometimes the questions just too good. At least thats what i think
also i really love listening to these educational videos Scott thanks for these!
A majority of professional sports simply comes down to the mentality of "I know that my opponent is of similar skill to me, how can I either force them to make a mistake or capitalize on the ones they make?" To say that it isn't a skill is discrediting a majority of what competition is, at its roots
Me: A rank 1 killer.
Also me: Rank 13 survivor because my teammates are trash.
"Because when he hooks the person it's not like he sees everybody on the map go, 'oh shit I gotta save this guy now'"
*BBQ and Chili has entered the chat*
So, a perk slot must be used to prove this wrong, and only from 40m out.
While survivors immediately see where the down happened, and where their teammate is hooked.
Xela Flow
I R O N M A I D E N
@@silentcalling You can choose 4 of them, and it's not like it's a bad perk either. It's probably the best standalone information perk in the game.
Also, Killer gets to see where every generator in the game is, while survivors can't, but nobody complains about that imbalance of information sharing. Knowing where the objectives you need to defend are is very different from knowing where the objectives you need to complete are. Knowing the first slows the game down, while knowing the second speeds the game up. Both Killers and Survivors only know where their objectives to defend are, and perks/items that let you know about objectives to complete are limited in availability or power. When they aren't, you're going to tilt the game's balance heavily to the side that gets that information.
@Xela Flow If we're going to strawman, then I doubt a person that thinks Deerstalker gives more information than BBQ has any legitimacy deciding what's right or wrong.
However, I don't need to strawman to make an argument. You're going to argue that BBQ has never been a strong killer perk, yet its very existence will make people stop doing objectives to get into a locker to avoid detection. It's so commonly used that some people will get into a locker upon a Survivor getting picked up just to cover the possibility of BBQ. It's part of why it is such a strong perk. It has no obvious tell when a killer has it, so you have to guess playing around it. By playing around it, you slow down gen progression to deny information. Guess what that's accomplishing? Exactly what Thrilling Tremors does. Forced the Survivors to decide between giving information to the killer to continue objectives, or forgo objectives to deny information. And you could easily be stopping objectives for no reason because you have no way of knowing for sure if BBQ is actually in play.
You could remove the bonus bloodpoints from BBQ, and it would still be used because it is a good perk. Is it the best? Definitely not for every killer, but it is extremely consistent across most killers. It's because of that consistency that it gets used commonly, and it's because it is used commonly with no tell on its existence that it becomes even more powerful. There's only one other information perk that I can think of with a similar combination of power, popularity, secrecy, and standalone efficacy, and that's Discordance. It's the only other information perk I would consider as having contention for best information perk.
@Xela Flow You can't say everything you said was valid when it's very easy to prove that BBQ gives more information that at least one aura reading perk. Heck, I made that "wall of text" to explain why it's better than most, if not all other, information perks, but I doubt you bothered to read it. You're just expressing your opinion with no evidence or supporting claims, and dismissing any evidence against your opinion as "the embodiment of mental illness". You can confidently leave the discussion because you never had any inclination to make it one.
Also, that's ad hominem, not strawman. Strawman is deliberately misrepresenting a position to make it easier to rebuke. Ad hominem is an attack against the speaker rather than the argument. So that's another thing you've said that isn't valid.
My issue comes down to how much a survivor can get a second chance. I waste a minute chasing a guy, they mess up but it doesnt matter because dead hard. I down them, the survivor can get pallet saved, flashlight saved, wiggle, sabo, DS. Any one of those can waste anywhere from 10 seconds to 2 minutes of effort that i put in. And thats just when I pick someone up.
I never hear people give credit to survivors who can play really well against certain killers. Bubba and Billy CRUSH me, but I can run a decent Huntress for quite a while. Sure, you learn how to play "survivor", but that's like saying that playing any one killer makes you good at just killing survivors. There's strategy to both sides depending on what killer you're up against.
i love watching these videos as much as i think you love making them. It's rare to get real people with real empathy that will evaluate situations with as little bias as humanly possible. You're awesome, love all your videos.
Honestly, I completely agree with the statement you mentioned in this video. 👍
Hey scoots glad to see youre still making dbd vids after last stream
What happened?
Sea Seaven I wanna know too
@@latroyw4650 He got 360'd after 2 years by a gremlin, Quentin.
@@latroyw4650 Scott Jund Gott Spund
That DS2 soundtrack in the back. Truly beautiful, even if the game was the bad if the.bunch, it still had great music and was fun to play
Ds2 was not bad at all, it was just not the same thing as Ds1 (like ds3 lol), so "fans" hated it with a passion
@@MattHazard95 I think Dead space 1 and 2 are pretty close games. Objectively dead space 2 had smoother gameplay, controls and added new weapons/enemies. However, Dead space 1 was longer and had much better atmosphere/horror. You just don’t get that feeling of hopelessness in dead space 2. While the Uber morph was cool it was pretty much the hunter from ds1. For me I’d take dead space 1 because I like the atmosphere, horror and levels more. The gameplay of ds1 was really good still. Both are great games.
@@dominickchuka5387 I guess we were talking about Dark Souls.
@@MattHazard95 Lol I thought you meant dead space. It’s a very good game if you haven’t played it. I never played dark souls but it looks difficult
@@dominickchuka5387 Scott is an ex Dark Souls content creator, yeah. Sometimes people also refer to DS for darksiders. And all of them had 3 mainline games.
'When killer makes a mistake he get's massive disadvantage and when survivor makes a mistake it's not that big of a deal' - I don't really have an issue with this. What I do have issue with are numerous perks that allow survivors to recover without any assistance with no downside so Small PP build.
Solo queue is the hardest role, change my mind. (killer coming in second then swf as the easiest role)
Bro I'm a solo survivor main and that shit is easy 😂 I prefer solo over swf shits easy as hell. Just make a notification at the beginning, and get the killer on you. Done. You won if you can loop and your team knows gens.
Danny Devito you must just always go against bad killers then. Because usually the killer stops chasing someone after a minute.
This is 100% accurate
True
All mindgames are is the killer baiting a survivor into making a mistake, and mindgames are the base DBD chase experience that gets thrown into everyone's faces.
Killer is harder, but solo queue comes close. I play both sides and can safely say killer is much more difficult, and honestly I’d much rather play survivor most of the time. It’s just painfully difficult and annoying sometimes to lose to people because gens got done in freaking 3 minutes. (Fr gen speeds are awful in this game)
I took a break from this game for 5 months, come back and one of my first games, they lopped 4 gens in about 2 minutes (I didn't even have time to hit a surv once) and it wasn't even high ranks, it was a rank 16 game. At that point, I remembered exactly why I didn't want to play the game
@@tescobag5704 yeah that crap is friggin stupid. The issue is that its so easy to do gens and they don’t have enough drawbacks or difficulty to make them more balanced. Then you got resilience, prove thyself, toolboxes, bnps, stake out, fast track, etc. it’s all dumb
I think when players say that survivor is less punishing when messing up they mean that immediate mistakes can be fixed in real time (second chance perks). Killers don’t have many second chance perks as survivors do and so killers who are exposed to those perks often will claim that it’s unfair. In my opinion killer is definitely harder because you’re playing solo. Like a survivor in a 1 v 1 at a bad loop if you mess up you will always have a consequence for it. While the game is more difficult when playing alone, either killer or survivor, you have to learn to adapt to bad situations and take advantage of your power and the map even when it’s against you, you can almost always find a way to win a chase.
2 uploads a day almost enough to cure the depression I get after I play one match of clown
😂😂😂😂
I'd post a video like this too if I got spun by a Quentin
Real talk, impressive you hadn't been spun in 3 years, and I'm glad you got spun because this is now a great meme I couldnt live my life without, just like this run-on sentence here, which I will stop now. Much live, Scond Jutt
9:00 bro, for a moment I thought that the cat just teleported.
Yeah I am an entity main now. The killers work for me I am basically the big boss up in this bitch
2 videos back to back
Damn I'm in a treat 😂
I like Scott because he really tries his best to be objective with his understanding.
Killer is 100% harder to play. That's a fact. But I like that he also considers about how the game is actually way harder for survivor than most killers think.
Anyone been getting a lot of Swfs recently? Legit every 2 games I get a 4 man
40-50 percent of matches are SWF. 4,3 or 2 man so yes its common.
Because playing solo survivor sucks ass recently
I've only play when with a friend or a group of 3 but lately every game I play the killer has BBQ
yeahh buddy Shit fr? 40-50? I wouldn’t have guessed that. I thought I was just unlucky, I’ve got so many videos saved of me going against swfs lmao
Paulina Yeah that’s very true, when I play solo queue every game plays the same. Meghead continuously goes down, Claudette with key is never found and plays extremely cautious, Ace/Nea with flashlight who never does gens, and me.
Hey man. Nice video. I just wanna say my condolences go out to you as I heard that you got spun. I’m praying for a quick recovery for you!
On the topic of killers, scott what are your opinions on Darth vader as the next killer
@@pajamalink its a meme but ok 👌
Dew it
Nah
Jar jar should be the next killer as he's a Sith Lord
Would buy in a heartbeat
hey scott from 2 years ago, this was one of the first vids of yours i saw. why did i get recommended this
"you play one survivor, you hav played all survivors"
Clearly you have never played Jeff "the Giant" Johansen.. :P
regarding killer and survivor mistakes. problem is that survivor mistakes are less punishing.
here's an example: like scott said, killer does mistake - survivor can loop additional 20 seconds. you down survivor in 20 seconds. at this time, 3 survivors were just pressing m1, and it's 60s gen progress from 1 mistake. that's 15% of survivor objective from just 1 mistake. what does killer get from survivors mistake? a hook. in a perfect world killer needs 12 hooks, and that's ~8% of killers objective. but there is another catch, killer ideally gets a hook, but in reality (with most killers) survivors mistake = 1 hit, or injure. so in the end if survivor does a mistake, and killer gets a hit on him that's only ~4% of his objective
"When a killer makes a mistake, it's super obvious. The survivor gets away. You watch him go away, and it sucks. When a survivor makes a mistake, nothing happens because small pp." Also, if there are many maps in the game which favor survivors, but few that favor killers, that does count as survivor being overpowered. It is not necessarily true that killers will always be punished harder than survivors. There is no reason why there can't be more mechanics to mitigate killer mistakes. I can imagine a hypothetical situation where survivors are overly punished for mistakes, therefore, the balance of the game is not an artifact of asymmetry which can't be changed. If there is a hypothetical version of the game which overly punishes killers, and a hypothetical version of the game which overly punishes survivors, then there is a hypothetical version of the game which would assign appropriate punishment to every player.
@Dod o
I think that no map should favor anyone. Ideally, every map would provide enough resources for the survivors that the game stays fair and exciting, while not depriving the killers of all map pressure.
I'm really liking these near daily vids my man. You're also looking great these days keep it up!
360p gang
Asumaki lmao i thought my app was bugged
I feel like the bigger problem is that survivors can individually play as good or better than the killer can in most cases and when you get to the point where all 4 of them are like that then you are beyond screwed.
Maintain the 4:1, don't become evolve
Poor fucking Evolve man, that game was the closest to getting it right but got absolutely slaughtered by bad marketing and then left for dead(get it?) and became a shitshow. Loved the hell out of Evolve when it came out.
@DonJuan Yates nah it was like 1:1, but the queue times for killer were like 45 mins. And p2w
Late to this video but I survivor going down isn’t necessarily a win for the killer. It’s the survivors goal to loop you for as long as possible. A ~30 second chase is an W for the survivor given their team was actually doing gens as an example
Exactly, if the other 3 survs are on gens, thats almost half of the gen.
That being said, I want killer to be harder, what I don't want is the survivors being capable of stripping the killer of their power over them. That takes the unfairness to a whole other level
Making this video because you got spunned OMEGALUL
I love these discussion videos, I really enjoy hearing your thoughts on all things DBD.
...Now let's talk about you getting spun yesterday :)
It’s not really fitting for this video, but do you think that a “gen rush” could be “fixed” by having 1-2 guaranteed 1 person gens, and have it in a strong place?
Isnt going to do anything when the whole premise of "Gen rushing" is having everyone on separate gens. And if you're going to put "1 person" gens in a strong place, you're just gonna make "gen rushing" worse, since it double reinforces doing a gen by yourself for efficiency.
It probaly would help, because gen rushing is doing generators with so many survivors and engineer-toolboxes with brand new parts as possible and then go to the next generator. Everyone doing one generator (without toolboxes) is doing generators as fast and effective as possible, but not really gen rushing, because it could happen in a normal match while everyone is solo q and don't know that anyone else is doing a generator. But gen rushing with your friends will still be faster than doing the gens as effective you could do without a toolbox or/and in solo q.
@@Schrank458 3 seperate Gens being popped within ~10seconds of each other >>>> 3 people popping 2 gens within that same time.
Peaple on diferent gens does make the game better, It really makes the game slower and more Fun for both sides, peaple complain about slug, but thats the only thing killers can do to buy some time. Anyone that plays killer against not good survivors but survivors that Focus only on gens knows that killers dont have time to make 12 hooks without slugging
2 guys go to next gen 1 Guy saves If someone else get chased they do the gens with three people again, the solo q guys probaly go saving with 2 people (because no information) the other gets chased -> No one does gens after save(+heal) they so gens alon again 80s each or together Like the swf
Hey I don't have much to add to the convo, I just wanted to say you put out some of the most informative videos on dbd out there. You communicate very well and your opinions are very well thought out. Thank you!
I guess my question would be when he refers to "survivors", is he talking about solo que or SWF. Because solo que and SWF are basically 2 different game modes. I would say solo gue in general is harder than killer but SWF is miles easier.
I would only partially agree, if ur teamates are bad as randoms ur just screwed. Skill goes out the window usually. With good teamates its still moderately easier than killer. With SWF my god how can you ever lose?
This is a really good opinion on survivor and killer gameplay. Killers are harder to play but I wouldn’t say they’re stronger or weaker than survivors. - Some killers take more skill to play and it’s a lot more to focus on being you’re 1 person vs a team but I’ll tell you right now if you have the skill and can focus on multiple things you’ll have an easy time playing killer. Plus it’s easier to get points on killer. Same goes for survivor if you’re playing alone off comms it’s extremely harder to play or escape.
Imo capitalizing on mistakes is a skill but it's not one that's actually based off your own skill. This makes it less you being skilled and more them not being skilled.. It's like winning a race by the other person tripping.. Yeah you still ran and that's a skill but did you really win?
100 PERCENT AGREE. As a killer main. I applaud you for this video.
I agree Scott, I play both killer and survivor and I’m happy that you said this, it’s unfortunate that whenever I say it I’m called an entitled survivor main just cause I play survivor slightly more
The skill of a survivor is doing a gen in front of the killer with DS active. If you play often as killer, you see How much these "get out of jail free card" makes them escape a Lot, because you can have downs Very fast and still see gens pop left and right because you dont need to make chases too long with the killer, If you take 30s Chase and survivors are on gens, the game is pretty much over
@DonJuan Yates they always have unbreakable as well. You Go look for someone and he Will be back on the gen. Its not Just M1 and problem solved
@DonJuan Yates It depends really, you gonna look for someone else on the map like "red Forest"? Some maps are huge, thats another problem, more for weak killers, If you play Freddy,Spirit DS is not that much of a issue. However, If I start a match and can down someone before a gen done and he gets unhooked in front of me(happens a Lot), I take the DS, because It only becomes a problem mid/late game. Its situational as always.
@Dod o If you can do a gen in front of the killer without any consequence thats not a "anti-tunneling" perk. It never was, It was always a Second chance perk. The only reason peaple say its anti-tunneling is because its active after unhook. I didnt played this game like 2 years ago, but I saw How DS was back then and It was so stupid, basically a free get away after First down
I get what you're saying about the whole "Killers have to wait for mistakes thing" and I think I can add to that.
Imagine a survivor on the map with all the resources available to him. No matter how well he plays, there's only a certain amount of "moves" he can make to avoid the killer. (Loop, drop pallet, read mind game correctly, etc). Assuming the survivor can reach every loop without being hit, he's limited to those amount of moves before he takes the hit inevitably.
But that's only 1 survivor. 3 other survivors are using those resources too. By the time the 1st survivor gets to a loop, he might only have a couple of loops to deal with and some dead zones all around.
Now you've limited the amount of "moves" the survivor can make to avoid the killer and his inevitable damage will come sooner. I guess this would be the bigger picture of Scott's example.
*[TLDR] Killers DO have to wait for mistakes to be made, BUT, they can also reduce the amount of moves a survivor can make to get the down quicker. Easier said than done though.*
ummm don't killers move faster than survivors, plus bloodlust, plus killer abilities, plus add-ons, plus perks, ummmmm
@@jisification9148 Yes exactly, all those contribute to a killer forcing outcomes or a survivor making a mistake.
Killers move faster yes, that's why they'll always catch up, otherwise they never would. Bloodlust takes time, a lot of time. The killer doesn't have the luxury of going for Bloodlust every chase. A really good team of survivors that focus on gens needs 4-6 mins to do all the gens.
Survivors have perks and addons like the killer so both sides need to take those things into account. Same with the powers, that's what makes the Nurse and Spirit so strong when played at an incredible level. They have the potential to take moves away from the survivor without affecting the map. The rest need to affect the map in some way to play them effectively.
Those are definitely all variables to add into the mix. But the main bulk of gameplay for most killers is looping. If you can't end chases quick then you will likely not get a 4k as the killer against an optimal team.
A lot of this video seemed like Scott just trying to boost the self-esteem and confidence of killers
you're wording it like thats a bad thing :|
@@ScottJund Lol sorry if it came off that way, I didn't put too much thought into the language I guess, I certainly meant it as a positive / funny thing. You wouldn't think a body of players who play the role of a "killer" would need self-esteem...
But hey, more messages like these can go a long way in persuading many people. Continue to be a strong voice of reason in this community my guy
Oh, its that guy that got spun by a Quentin
Overall, I agree that, as a killer, you gotta learn more things, like map control and when to slug, patrol, etc. But in a chase, the skill you require as a survivor is much higher than the one you need as a killer. To become a survivor that knows how to loop, counter powers (not throwing the pallet when it's a huntress, pre-throwing the pallet when it's a doctor), takes way more hours than to know how to path as a killer. Also, we gotta acknowledge that when it's a 4v1, obviously the survivors have higher chance of winning, but in a 1v1, where the killer is much stronger than you, there is way more things you gotta do in order to avoid getting down.
(I haven't seen your video, just the text and I will say this)
I think that it depends on how you deal with the game, to me, Survivor is harder than killer.
I cannot run away or survive most of the time, I keep my distance but I always get found, I can't help other people and in every chase I been in, the killer will always gets me.
while for killer, while it is hard sometimes, you can be very skillful, I can play as nearly all the killers and still be good, each of them having a unique power while for me, survivors are all the same, so there isn't much variety other than the perks.
I can be wrong with this, but I think how you can handle survivor or killer is depends on how your teamwork skills are, if you can work with others or have friends in games that you can work greatlly with, then survivors would be a good role, if you're a solo player who has a lack of gaming friends and can't work well with others in games, then your better off as killer, which explains why I am better as a killer than a survivor.
this is just my thoughts on the subject, all I'll say is it's okay who you main or good at, there is no overall agreement, it's just that people play differently than others and that's okay
The survivors should all start in the basement and the killer should start a set distance away. Let the games begin!
This was very therapeutic.
I’ve agreed with this, even before I joined the community. I’ve always thought, “Killers need addons to do good, and in turn they get more bloodpoints, while survivor doesn’t need items and therefore they generally get less bloodpoints
This video woke me up to a level of self-deprecation that I didn't even know I had.
It’s true it only takes one clumsy survivor to bring down the entire trial and of course being killer should be hard it’s suppose to be strategic but I would argue survivor is harder than killer because you have learn how to loop and mind game, when to use pallets, how to go about prevent a 3 gen situation, and how counter the killer. There’s a skill level for both sides. I feel like a lot of killer mains don’t play survivor well and a lot of survivor mains aren’t good killers someone that is good on both is a well rounded player. For instance im a ghost face (and pig) main and I know all his little tips and tricks, what addons I think he’s running and when to knock him out of stalk. A player that plays well on both sides has a good level of skill in the game
-Realizing I said this once as killer- Father of bread forgive me for I have sinned... But thanks I enjoyed these videos you’re making. It really helps me get a new perspective on DBD. I wish others did this as well just voice their opinions as well. Good day or night for you Scott.
Killer has the potential to be the power role, the player just has to know how to control that power
Yes, I agree with the “same skill caps”, as a Freddy main, I know that, unless using forever Freddy, that he can get destroyed, even with pop, his power is similar to hag’s, you can place them around loops and the outcome is the same, with Freddy, even with the slow down, it’s not enough, with hag, it’s nearly to late to react, both are somewhat similar, since the master survivor can and will always win against the two killers, which brings me to the question: “why is Freddy “boring”?”, the answer is the way he can break the game is just...too much, if he uses normal perks and add ons then he’s fine, maybe a bit cheesy at times but still fine, but then we get into murky territory with his red add ons, his quirks (like countering bt) and...well, the paint brush and swing chain add ons, legend has it that if you even consider this combo, you get instant -rep on your steam account, even if your profile is private
DonJuan Yates what does a rank 18 Freddy mean? Rank doesn’t represent skill, and yeah, he’s strong and easy...to play as, that is, but a killer being easy doesn’t mean that he’s “unfair”, each killer should feel unique in more than just power, and I know Freddy used to be unique, but the wrong way, he was annoyingly bad, now he’s fine good, he isn’t even s tier, because his anti loop is, again, not strong enough, unlike nurses who just ignores walls
Also you didn’t say all the perks of the Freddy, the add ons, your own perks and your own items, maybe that rank 18 Freddy had all the meta perks, maybe your team wasn’t as good as you think, there’s so many variables that are in your control that can make or break Freddy
Agreed I dont play killer as much but killer being the harder role kinda makes sense. Since most survivor players are more casual making the role easier makes sense. They need 4 survivors to every one killer. But playing survivor does take skill considering most survivors on xbox are not great. The only brainless thing is playing on midwich
2:00
its not easier to get to a decent level of survivor than as killer.
In fact, it's the other way around. If 4 survivors with 500h playtime face a killer with 500h playtime, they will get demolished.
Here is why:
1. survivor gets much less chase interacting than killer in each trial
2. survivor need to learn to counter all killers, while the killer only needs to be good at one
3. survivors need to adapt to the killers play style and strategy, while the killer is the one in control. There is just more variety to the killer's perk build and strategy than to the survivor's. And hit validation is on the killer's side, which makes it easier to learn the timing in chases for killer.
3. is obviously debatable, but it's safe to say that an 800 hour spirit main is better than an 800 hour survivor main. And this has an influence on the balance of the game.
Thank you for discussing this. A lot of people need to understand that sometimes losing is their fault.
7:00 this is bad example, because if every chase in game is like this, killer gets genrushed in 4 minutes - this actually prooves the point that killer can only capitalize on mistakes (except nurse and spirit, maybe deathslinger too).
On top of capitalizing on mistakes, I think coercing survivors into making more mistakes you can punish is also a really important skill that killers have to learn
I agree with this 100%, but I think we also have to bring into account the element of fun. If a killer plays optimal, despite it being a less fun tactic, the game is actually pretty killer sided. IF a killer were to get a hook within the 1st minute of the game, tunnel that person so they die on first hook, and have 3 survivors left with 3-4 gens left the game is over, the killer won from that alone. This play isn't encouraged, but food for thought
People judge you a lot for being a contrarian but honestly I like that you're able to see all sides of every situation.
Being able to argue with yourself and prove yourself wrong and right all at the same instance is the hardest thing but also the most respectable thing of just a human being in general.
Yeah the mistakes of survivors are 25%-100%. I had a match where a bubba downed someone in the open and I was hiding bear with a FL, and a Feng ran at him (why) and ran past me and I got seen. A few minutes later, 2 are hooked and I am the Feng are slugged. The mistakes of survivors are always kind of big, but as Scott said, have effect over the entire match.
Killer is way more stressful and hard to master or even learn how to play properly.
Playing both sides completly changes your view on the game and everyone should do it but this will never happen.
But beeing a good survivor is hard aswell you are right on that
I'll agree with the idea that if both sides play perfectly the killer still wins when killers get a set of perks that give them 3 second chances per chase to fix their fuckups.
1:00
As as survivor you need to learn how to counter every single killer's power, but as a killer you just need to learn one killer.
So it's the other way around of what you are saying.
1:15
As a survivor you also have to learn how to play against different strategies (hit and run, slugging, ...) different perk builds and so on.
In my opinion these different possibilities make the game harder for survivors, but not for killers. As a Killer you can freely chose what to do, while as a survivor you need to identify and adapt to all those different playstyles, which are available to killers.
Lmao good try but your perks will get u out of jail free for all killers and most M1 killers require same counterplay, the others aren't hard to learn besides nurse and spirit
@@mckookie2967
That's what people think, but looking into the game, there are not too much basic M1 killers. Most killers do haven an ability, which helps in chase. So you need to learn how to loop specifically against them.
And the killers without such a power still have an ability, which they use outside of chases. Even though chases are the same for them, you need to learn how to counter their ability strategically.
Killers with power, used in chases:
Nurse, Hillbilly, Huntress, Hag, Doctor, Leatherface, Freddy, Clown, Spirit, Demogorgon, Deathslinger, Pyramid Head
Killers with power, mainly used outside of chases:
Trapper, Wraith, Shape, Legion, Plaque, Ghostface, Oni
Even the killers I put in the latter tier can use their power in chases.
Wraith can try to use the undetectable effect and movement boost while uncloaking in chases. Shape and Ghostface will sometimes try to stalk while chasing you. Legion can chase you in his frenzy, Oni can chase you with his Dash, Plaque tries to vomit on you in chases, Trapper may have placed traps in strong loops on which you need to pay attention in chases.
So actually looping is different against every fucking killer. There are some basic principles, which apply very often. But there is a lot to learn to counter every killer properly.
And this obviously takes much more time, than learning how to use the ability of 4 killers, which you decide to play regularly
If a killer misses a swing, it's a "100%" mistake against the killer side. If a survivor misplays and gets hit its only "25%" of a mistake on the survivor team. Now add in the 2nd chances that survivor gets, and the "25%" mistake that a survivor makes by misplaying turns into a 100% killer mistake by whiffing a swing because of dead hard. Same kind of thing happens with DS, impacting "small" mistakes by the survivor and turning them into "large" ones for killer. This is where the imbalance lies, and why complaints about killer mistakes or misplays have such a huge impact on the game.
I agree, I just want killer to be fun and the killer to be good, so that I don't have to play a boring killer build to win