So, for those of you who asked for subtitles, I have transcribed the interview for you. I am by no means a professional translator so please forgive any error I made or liberty I took. Anyway, here it is. MH: This music fits you like a glove, doesn't it? RdL: Well, I certainly have a very long relationship with it, in any case. This goes way back. Already in the 1960's I was very fascinated. You see, Satie became quite famous in his later years; when he and Cocteau made the ballet Parade and became the inspiration of a younger generation of French composers such as Milhaud and Poulenc, the Groupe des six, with René Clair, who made brilliant film music. This was the time when Satie became very prominent and, eh, well, was famous. MH: And during his life, right? Because later he was also regard as a dillitant. RdL: Well he was regarded as such back then as well, he was rather a complicated man of course. He played bar music. MH: In the Chat Noir. RdL: Yes. And I was always fascinated by Satie's early years, when he started composing, around the end of the 1880's. And that world he created, that was so contrary, so very contrary to everything in his time. It almost seems as if he, with his first piece, Ogives, reinvents the whole history of music by himself. What is very, very decisive for me, is that then, he writes four pieces, with four times exactly the same structure. These are exactly the same. And above all four of these pieces is written, "Tres Lent". So there is no contrast, no development, it is completely static, it is introverted. And that very much contradicts everything about the late 19th century, which is exuberant and wild, and, I don't know, the great years of late Romanticism. What makes you compose this? Why do you start like that? MH: What do you think? RdL: Well, that's the special thing about Satie. You can read everything there is about him, but you'll never figure it out. Because it's one big mystification hanging around him. MH: Might it have been the only music he could write? Or is that too simply put? RdL: Well, he wrote it! And of course, later on he wrote Gymnopedies and Gnossiennes which at least has some semblance to the French music of that time. Debussy loved it and wrote instrument parts for it. Satie had an influence on Debussy and Ravel. But then in later years, around 1895, he moved in a totally esoteric world, a religious, esoteric world. And yes, that's a nice photograph of him during that period, you can really see it. MH: How did he end up there? RdL: How did he end up there. Well, first you have to understand that in Paris around the 1890's, this esotericism was quite widespread. It originates from a Wagnerian cult instigated by Baudelaire which, during those years, led to wondrously esoteric worlds. And Satie engaged with that. There was a writer, Joseph Peladan, also called the Tsar, who created a sect of Rosicrucianism. Satie was connected to that, he also wrote music for it. And then, because he was so solitary - you can't imagine Satie in large groups - he withdrew from that again. And then he founded his own church, L'Église métropolitaine d’art de Jésus-Conducteur. Supposedly he had hundreds of thousands of members, with bishops and everything, but of course it was just this one person, who, well...what is that? He also published a cartulaire, a pamphlet for that church, but then he used that mainly to villify critics who had said something nasty about him in a rather bombastic way. MH: Is this also the time when he wrote Uspud? RdL: Yes. And there's one piece from that time of which I always say it's impossible to perform. It's so extreme, so introverted, and it's also a rather lengthy piece, where completely nothing happens musically. But he wrote it, and this in itself is already insane, as a ballet. He wrote it together with a friend from his youth, also someone from that esoteric world, Contamine de Latour. At a certain time he thought that the Parisian Opera ought to give him a big order for a piece. The Opera didn't agree, so Satie challenged the head to a duel. And together with this Contamine he wrote this piece Uspud, and offered it to the Opera for playing. It was so bizarra. MH: Yes, a lot happened on stage but almost nothing music-wise. RdL: Yes. When you look at the libretto, it states... MH: Can you maybe play a little of the piece? It a sort of thing that's constantly repeated. RdL. Yes. So there's one character, Uspud, and then there's the Spiritualité, which is the Christian Church, the martyrs, the, I don't know, demons, angels, and this all is one big improbable story about whatever happens, with things that collapse, and people with lizard heads or ant heads that suddenly appear, or, I don't know. One thing more surreal and weird than the other. So if you read all that, you think the music for it must be something insanely wild. But that just doens't happen. The music never, not at any point, reacts to the text. And what it all means? You just can't explain it. MH: It's very "naked" music, isn't it? RdL: -plays a bit from Uspud- RdL: And you'll hear this part another twelve times over or something. And then it bends a little bit to this- RdL: -Plays another bit from Uspud- RdL: And then there's a lot of silences. And then, the third part, starts with this little chord -plays- which you have to hold for twentysix counts, tres lent. You count it, twenty-six counts, but of course by then the whole sound is already long gone, there's nothing left. So, it's white, it's unmovable, it's introverted, it's completely perpendicular to the text of the play. I always wonder how you would perform it? Musically, I don't see how to do it. As a ballet, it's completely unthinkable. But then I thought, I might get close to it by working with video. And then I went to Arjen Klerkx, a video artist who worked with Guy Cassiers whom I also know. I thought, this might be a way to get some of these ideas that are in those texts, out in video art. Arjen thought this was a very attractive idea. So we're going to do this in a festival in Rotterdam. This is dedicated to those esoteric years, all the music written for the Rosicrucianism period, and it will be published on cd. And after the break we'll do Uspud. I will move to the background and then it's more about what you'll see in the video art. MH: I have one more question. This "tres lent", it occurs quite a lot in Satie's music doesn't it? RdL: Yes, here, tres lent, tres lent, tres lent. You can already see it eight times on these pages. MH: Can I ask you? At the start we played a bit of Gymnopedie, with you on the piano in the 1970's. You really took an extremely slow tempo for the Gymnopedie and we, as little piano students, thought, well, we can do it too if you play it THAT slow! But I'm sure you really thought about it. But I've asked myself this question. RdL: Well, you can play the Gymnopedie and the Gnossienne in such a way that it start to resemble Fauré a little bit. -Plays- and then it becomes a nice little slow waltz much like many french composers wrote. But for me it was really essential to return to the first piece, Ogives, where really nothing much happens. But also when you look at Gymnopedie, there's three of them, all three with the same structure. So Satie takes something out of the music, and puts in the completely static, introverted, unmovable. And that's a very essential thing. So I really take the early pieces to heart, where there's tres lent everywhere, always. So you really should not play this as a pastiche from other composers. It has something completely willful. And this is why I started playing it like this, and it turned out the tempo was way slower than most of the other performers from that time. MH: In fact, it must be much more difficult to play it like this. RdL: Oh, I don't know. For me, it's the only way to play it. Any other way is meaningless.
So, for those of you who asked for subtitles, I have transcribed the interview for you. I am by no means a professional translator so please forgive any error I made or liberty I took. Anyway, here it is.
MH: This music fits you like a glove, doesn't it?
RdL: Well, I certainly have a very long relationship with it, in any case. This goes way back.
Already in the 1960's I was very fascinated. You see, Satie became quite famous in his later years; when he and Cocteau made the ballet Parade and became the inspiration of a younger generation of French composers such as Milhaud and Poulenc, the Groupe des six, with René Clair, who made brilliant film music. This was the time when Satie became very prominent and, eh, well, was famous.
MH: And during his life, right? Because later he was also regard as a dillitant.
RdL: Well he was regarded as such back then as well, he was rather a complicated man of course. He played bar music.
MH: In the Chat Noir.
RdL: Yes. And I was always fascinated by Satie's early years, when he started composing, around the end of the 1880's. And that world he created, that was so contrary, so very contrary to everything in his time. It almost seems as if he, with his first piece, Ogives, reinvents the whole history of music by himself. What is very, very decisive for me, is that then, he writes four pieces, with four times exactly the same structure. These are exactly the same. And above all four of these pieces is written, "Tres Lent". So there is no contrast, no development, it is completely static, it is introverted. And that very much contradicts everything about the late 19th century, which is exuberant and wild, and, I don't know, the great years of late Romanticism. What makes you compose this? Why do you start like that?
MH: What do you think?
RdL: Well, that's the special thing about Satie. You can read everything there is about him, but you'll never figure it out. Because it's one big mystification hanging around him.
MH: Might it have been the only music he could write? Or is that too simply put?
RdL: Well, he wrote it! And of course, later on he wrote Gymnopedies and Gnossiennes which at least has some semblance to the French music of that time. Debussy loved it and wrote instrument parts for it. Satie had an influence on Debussy and Ravel. But then in later years, around 1895, he moved in a totally esoteric world, a religious, esoteric world. And yes, that's a nice photograph of him during that period, you can really see it.
MH: How did he end up there?
RdL: How did he end up there. Well, first you have to understand that in Paris around the 1890's, this esotericism was quite widespread. It originates from a Wagnerian cult instigated by Baudelaire which, during those years, led to wondrously esoteric worlds. And Satie engaged with that. There was a writer, Joseph Peladan, also called the Tsar, who created a sect of Rosicrucianism. Satie was connected to that, he also wrote music for it. And then, because he was so solitary - you can't imagine Satie in large groups - he withdrew from that again. And then he founded his own church, L'Église métropolitaine d’art de Jésus-Conducteur. Supposedly he had hundreds of thousands of members, with bishops and everything, but of course it was just this one person, who, well...what is that? He also published a cartulaire, a pamphlet for that church, but then he used that mainly to villify critics who had said something nasty about him in a rather bombastic way.
MH: Is this also the time when he wrote Uspud?
RdL: Yes. And there's one piece from that time of which I always say it's impossible to perform. It's so extreme, so introverted, and it's also a rather lengthy piece, where completely nothing happens musically. But he wrote it, and this in itself is already insane, as a ballet. He wrote it together with a friend from his youth, also someone from that esoteric world, Contamine de Latour. At a certain time he thought that the Parisian Opera ought to give him a big order for a piece. The Opera didn't agree, so Satie challenged the head to a duel. And together with this Contamine he wrote this piece Uspud, and offered it to the Opera for playing. It was so bizarra.
MH: Yes, a lot happened on stage but almost nothing music-wise.
RdL: Yes. When you look at the libretto, it states...
MH: Can you maybe play a little of the piece? It a sort of thing that's constantly repeated.
RdL. Yes. So there's one character, Uspud, and then there's the Spiritualité, which is the Christian Church, the martyrs, the, I don't know, demons, angels, and this all is one big improbable story about whatever happens, with things that collapse, and people with lizard heads or ant heads that suddenly appear, or, I don't know. One thing more surreal and weird than the other. So if you read all that, you think the music for it must be something insanely wild. But that just doens't happen. The music never, not at any point, reacts to the text. And what it all means? You just can't explain it.
MH: It's very "naked" music, isn't it?
RdL: -plays a bit from Uspud-
RdL: And you'll hear this part another twelve times over or something. And then it bends a little bit to this-
RdL: -Plays another bit from Uspud-
RdL: And then there's a lot of silences. And then, the third part, starts with this little chord -plays- which you have to hold for twentysix counts, tres lent. You count it, twenty-six counts, but of course by then the whole sound is already long gone, there's nothing left. So, it's white, it's unmovable, it's introverted, it's completely perpendicular to the text of the play. I always wonder how you would perform it? Musically, I don't see how to do it. As a ballet, it's completely unthinkable. But then I thought, I might get close to it by working with video. And then I went to Arjen Klerkx, a video artist who worked with Guy Cassiers whom I also know. I thought, this might be a way to get some of these ideas that are in those texts, out in video art. Arjen thought this was a very attractive idea. So we're going to do this in a festival in Rotterdam. This is dedicated to those esoteric years, all the music written for the Rosicrucianism period, and it will be published on cd. And after the break we'll do Uspud. I will move to the background and then it's more about what you'll see in the video art.
MH: I have one more question. This "tres lent", it occurs quite a lot in Satie's music doesn't it?
RdL: Yes, here, tres lent, tres lent, tres lent. You can already see it eight times on these pages.
MH: Can I ask you? At the start we played a bit of Gymnopedie, with you on the piano in the 1970's. You really took an extremely slow tempo for the Gymnopedie and we, as little piano students, thought, well, we can do it too if you play it THAT slow! But I'm sure you really thought about it. But I've asked myself this question.
RdL: Well, you can play the Gymnopedie and the Gnossienne in such a way that it start to resemble Fauré a little bit. -Plays- and then it becomes a nice little slow waltz much like many french composers wrote. But for me it was really essential to return to the first piece, Ogives, where really nothing much happens. But also when you look at Gymnopedie, there's three of them, all three with the same structure. So Satie takes something out of the music, and puts in the completely static, introverted, unmovable. And that's a very essential thing. So I really take the early pieces to heart, where there's tres lent everywhere, always. So you really should not play this as a pastiche from other composers. It has something completely willful. And this is why I started playing it like this, and it turned out the tempo was way slower than most of the other performers from that time.
MH: In fact, it must be much more difficult to play it like this.
RdL: Oh, I don't know. For me, it's the only way to play it. Any other way is meaningless.
Thank you for your effort
Many thanks
Wow
Genius
Thank you
Thanks a lot
english subtitles please? would be interested to hear his interest in satie.
Can you provide subtitles for this please?
Van de onbeweeglijke pianominiatuurtjes van Satie t/m de Gurre-Lieder en de Matthäus-Passion ... wat een parcours heeft RdL afgelegd.
I’d love to understand this.
Misschien was Satie een pre-Dadaist.
en het gaat nog over satie ook... moooi!
yes! pretty please!!!