Live Deep Dive into The Beatles stereo box sets. Is the 2012 box set highly underrated? Find out!
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- Опубліковано 11 жов 2024
- Please join Steve Westman and Patrick “pbthal” as they deep dive and dissect The Beatles Stereo box sets. They review the Abbey Road 2012 vinyl stereo remaster, the 1982 Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs box and the UK 13 Blue Box Collection. Does the 2012 vinyl stereo box deserve more praise? Find out as we will do a blind shootout between the 2012 remastered, MFSL, original UK tube cut and the UK Blue Box collection.
Your channel always presents a nice balance of expertise and humility. Love it. Thanks.
Thank you for this! I am so tired of "experts" (M 45) blathering on about certain pressings but openly refusing to do blind tests.
Exactly!!!! Blind tests or nothing.
Same with wine.
Steve glad you had Patrick on the stream today, he is an authority on pressings mastering etc good stuff 👍
Yes. This was such a fun show. Patrick was great.
I just bought most of the records separately from the Blue box. Sounds great!
Yes. Glad to hear. 👍
P.S. Would be interesting to do some more blind tests on each Beatles album to get a truer picture of the 2012 Stereo box/single album copies still in print. Also maybe do so some on much maligned re-issues which are known to be digital-sourced i.e. The Queen LP Studio Collection Box or the still in-print separately available albums.
I want to try Abbey Rd next. Stay tuned.
@@stevewestman7774 Nice one I've got my Mum's original UK press -2/-1 and the 2012 Remaster to compare.
Of course the MFSL releases show different pictures of the notes on the tape boxes. But the picture of the actual tape reel is the same on each cover. That's what Fremer meant.
Yes. I misread the question. That’s 100% correct.
Steve, Tom Port of Better Records only buys 1978-1980 pressings ‘The Beatles Collection BC 13’ UK stereo vinyl box sets now. Frank
Thank you. Good to know.
Oh, and YES! I am not at all a mono guy (due mainly to having two tall open baffle dipole multi-driver line arrays - 13 drivers a side - bloody *HUGE* image and soundstage!) BUT... I agree 100% with Patrick, the Abbey Road Disraeli Gears sounds bloody *AMAZING!* Totally blows away my standard US stereo version. I honestly feel that a lot of it is that the mono master is simply quite superiour. I only have a few mono pressings out of over 2500 vinyl albums, but that one and the fairly recent OJC remaster of Miles Cookin' are stunningly open sounding examples of beautifully done mono sound.
Love Me Do wasn’t a UK needle drop, but a needle drop of a very very clean Canadian 45.
Sample C for me, the BC13 version, slightly shades Sample D, the original tube cut. They are the most balanced and neutral. I am of the opinion that if I want more volume, bass or treble I just use my tone controls rather than being force-fed the 2012/MFSL highs/lows jiggery-pokery.
If one doesn't have the good fortune of having an original pressing, the 80s Mobile Fidelity reissues, the B-13 box sets, the 2012 Box set versions aren't bad for digital one-steps. They may be a little shrill, but they are not trash as some snobby audiophiles have proclaimed.
Steve, you need to listen to a mid 1970’s -1 -1 stereo cut on ‘Beatles For Sale’ from The United Kingdom. One of the top ten audiophile stereo Beatles pressing ever. MR Stickermania
Will do. Will have a look for one.
Something most don't talk about is sibilance on pre digital half speed masters. I love my mofi Beatles, I think Let It Be is amazing. But there is sibilance on pretty much every song, every album, every mofi Beatles.
I hope I’m not too late to the party gents.Love the discussion.After listening twice if not three times, my opinion for what it’s worth is.
A/ 2012 - The Vocals have been pushed so up front, where the balance has been lost.The instrumentation is now so much in the background, that it stands out like sore thumb for me, almost irritating in fact.I think John in particular would hate this mix, as he always wanted to bury his vocal.As much as possible.
Slightly worried as I may be picking up the Deagostini Collection soon. Especially after listening to the 2012's.Which I think both 2012 and Deagostini's were cut from the same source? Although the Deagostini's are a total different recut? If you ever hear the title track of "AHDN" it will blow your mind! not in a good way (i....i what were you thinking)??'
B/ - The Mofi.Again for me, the vocal is too loud but there is a better balance than 2012.Between vocals, and instruments.Also slightly more clarity, sibillance, again than the 2012.Which for me, is not a bad thing.Much like the Japanese SH-MCD's etc...
C/ 1978 BC13 Solid State - I think there is a better balance than the 2012, and the MOFI, with vocals and instruments. And John's vocals are more buried.Which is more probably what they George and the Boys, originally were going for when the originally mixed it in the first place.Very likeable.
D/ -Tube Cut. Almost a carbon copy of BC13 Solid State. But for me there is slightly more bass, just emanating through which I personally love to hear.It's just in the background without being over powering, Extremely subtle.Not your typical Tube Cut, as I think "Rubber Soul" over all is too over whelming in the bass dept, for my ear.But for this track just perfect!
So in order it would be for me - First D. Second C. Third B. Fourth A.
All totally subjective.They are all magnificent sets, and for me all have their own merits.
Just my couple of cents worth.
Very interesting, fun experiment gents, with Patrick being the perfect person to do this with.
Love the show Steve!
Looking forward to your new 10 minute daily feature?
Amazing. Really appreciate the input. Thank you 🙏
I know from a few interviews with McCartney that the band always wanted a more 'bassier' sound to their early pre-Rubber Soul records and were envious of the bass sounds from the U.S. studios i.e. Motown, Stax, etc. So he might prefer the 2012 versions. Maybe by-the-book EMI in the 60's were wary of cutting too 'hot' (drink, Steve Westman) to prevent needle jumps from the basic record players of the day.
Damn getting me drunk dude.
*HOLY $H^T* Bro, I can't believe that you are actually doing a Beatles Stereo Box video! 😲I know I've bitched and moaned a lot about some of the negative comments about it, and I know I've chided you a bit because of your comments about it, but WOW man, you are on the figg'n ball mate! 👍 Ah, I just got to the reveal... See Steve... I told you I wasn't blowing smoke outta my @ss (well, what I do in my private time is no one's business) 60 some percent! FWIW, I too heard the 'clarity' of the 'B' sample, and I almost immediately thought it must be the MFSL pressing because it is likely the one with perhaps some boosting in the highs. What I really liked about the 'A' sample, and also the 'D' sample somewhat, was to me the more 3 dimensional, almost holographic sound. The MFSL just sounded a bit 2 dimensional, but yes, like you said, it has more 'impact', but to my ears and system, the 'A' sample just sounds more balanced and 'natural', with more 'weight' (as Patrick said) ironically more 'analog'...
Wow, super props to you Bro for even doing this! I am so damned surprised and honestly impressed that you actually addressed this comparison. Perhaps you've been basing your primary feelings on the 2009 CD set, which as was stated is a different mastering than the vinyl. That would certainly explain you dislike of it all this time. And also I feel that the fact that you have grown up in Canada... Uh..., *cough, I mean that you have grown up listening to the MFSL pressings 😁 would mean that you are indeed more used to that sound and likely prefer it. I have a few of the MFSL Beatles albums and I like how they sound. Again, it's probably just a case of whether you listen to it as a stand alone or if you are actually comparing it as you did here.
Oh, and also (sorry to be so wordy...) I do indeed have a lot of the early MFSL pressings like you do, Steve Miller, etc., that do sound great!
Interesting shoot out and comparison, although for this one particular classic from Beatles For Sale, No Reply. I was one of those that picked Sample A, the Beatles Stereo Box Set. Sample A you can see on the waveform is slightly more compressed than C, but very close and inverted phase on the 2012 box set as Patrick mentioned. This was the most interesting factor discussed. To this day I have not done a straight shoot out of each album stereo 2012 box Vs' OG or early stereo reissue pressings. To my ears, having only 2 of the BC 13 titles, those still seem to be the reference Beatles stereo reissue vinyl. Re eq, mid range detail is part of the mix so smiley EQ settings makes no sense. Actually, using an equalizer in the loop makes no sense to me. A decent preamp and amp, no eq is the way to go for me. in fact, my preamp has no bass and treble adjustment. An eq just adds more signal path, more distortion and colouration of the sound.
Thanks for all your thoughts. What Beatles song/album would you like to see for the next shootout?
We were not advocation using an EQ, I was just "showing" what a smiley face EQ setting was
Look at In Groove Mike's equipment. Look at Tom Port's equipment. Certain masterings sound better if you listen to samples on ipods, headphones and 5-10 watt/ch desktop speakers. And they are mastered for precisely that purpose. Other masterings sound better if you listen on adequately powered full standing speakers.
One variant might sound better to someone on their system versus your system. Mike at the 'In'groove thinks the 2012 is terrible. Just a thought.
Interesting shootout. But IMO it is better to get every Beatles Album as a single Issue. So you can get for example such great Versions of Please, Please me and Magical Mystery Tour on the German Hör Zu Label. I think you will not get such good sounding versions in any Box-Set. I think the most of the Channels on YT, who search for good sounding Records, ignore German Pressings. Especially in the 70s there are so much great german Pressing. For example Pink Floyd - Dark side of the moon. IMO the 1st german pressing sounds as good as the UK one and it is much cheaper, but the Collectors only want UK or US first Pressings. I collected Records for the Music and the best sound, not for value.
If you want all Beatles in a Box-Set, fantastic sounding Records and you have a Mono Cartridge, get the Mono Box-Set (but not the colored Reissue).
Interestingly, A doesn’t sound like real instruments. You can tell the DR was lower on A and B. C and D sounded great. Slightly prefer C. You have to look at nuance. These are very small detail differences from file to file. It takes a keen ear to pick these things up. I have done so many A/B digital/analog. Digital PCM flattens the instruments into ghosts. Like the instruments but not real. DSD seems to be the best implementation of digital. DSD cuts like UD1S seem to produce less of that shininess
The best box is the canadian version 2006.
Hi Steve, can you please repost the link? Would like to listen to these in my speakers and need to redownload them
Here you go. rb.gy/4ys3e
Cool. I listened to these finally in complete. I was not fooled by the exacting sound of A. I actually like C or D the most. You can easily tell them apart. With the speakers it’s very easy to tell. There is a shininess to digital cut. B felt close to the A. Interesting stuff for sure
I OWN THE 1978 TOSHIBA EMI BLUE BOX - UNOPENED, ANYONE INTERESTED IN THIS SET...... I HAVE OWNED THIS BOX SET SINCE 1978 APRIL .......
Price?
FIVE HUNDRED, I LIVE NEAR CINCINNATI OHIO....
No offense, you offer these downloads to do "shootouts" and your listeners are using headphones at best on their laptops. You act like people are running these clips through their hifi, they arent.
You used the wrong album for a comparison
You should have used a later lp with more lush instrumentation
The 2012 records were congested and had no air
A digital file will lose some of that and level matching can ruin micro dynamic differences - adjust by ear which retains the relative volume magic the engineer intended 26:18
You can easily turn up or down the volume and won’t be swayed by something sounding more engaging because it is louder
The 2012 brought up many parts in an audiophile way
Some of us did not like most of the One Step mofis and older analog mofi
Compare these to originals and the mono box for a much better reference
This was strictly a stereo box comparison. Maybe we can do a mono shoot out at some point.
we lost Steve momentarily Patrick.
I got back. Lol.
The Beatles - magic is in the mids. You take that out, you have really hollowed music. Beatles For Sale is the exception of the 2012, and always had - if you look. It's hard to make a bad sounding version - maybe the mono is the worst of the bunch. Why I personally don't care for Miles' work is the stereo imbalance persistent on multiple releases.
I think this is a pretty shocking result.
🥹
So why did Patrick(The Vinyl Archivist) changed his name to Pbthal (as in lead-thal)?