There's no good or bad side in Dota. Slacks covered this in his lore video. Radinthul and Diruulth both mindcontrol heroes and creatures to do their bidding. There's even a comic where a family slowly turns into creeps, losing their sense of self and becoming mindless creatures forced to fight a neverending war. (Neverending because each time Dire or Radiant loses, the explosion of the Nemesis Stones (The Core/Throne) stops and rewinds time back to when everything is up (This explains the infinite number of Dota games, with limitless possible combinations of heroes, not one game is similar to another. A game of Io, Gyro, Abaddon, Timber, Tiny vs Bristleback, Chen, Omniknight, Earth Spirit and Windranger could have a different outcome in another possibility)
It’s like cs go the good side/defenders should have the better high ground and vision but worse offense. Dota pubs are usually based on defense early to mid game where everyone farms. Radiant takes advantage of that but dire can still take over if they bring the fight to them with smoke ganks and mid rotations. The win rate difference in pro games is only 4% while in pubs could be up to 4-8%, In Pubs people also don’t know how to play from behind which strengthens radiant even more.
It's the camera. Dota is my first MOBA ever and I quickly realized the angle of the camera is a problem for the Dire side. Just the way it's positioned makes looking down at the map awkward in many angles and that's why you have these glaring differences with camps near the lanes being so skewed in what they can actually provide with lane equilibrium. I've had a solution to this problem and I'm surprised Valve hasn't even experimented with the concept using a staging branch. Funnily enough, another game franchise has dealt with a similar camera issue: Tekken. In Tekken, moves and movement are dependent on which way your character is facing, so, naturally, there is going to be differences depending on if you start the round on the left or the right. The way they solved this was to have both players choose which side they'd prefer to start on, and if it happens to be the same side, the game would perform a kind of mirroring effect, where both players would see the other facing the contrasting side. I think the camera in Dota has a lot to do with the disparity of win rates. If you could play Dire side with the camera at an angle exactly the same as Radiant - where you are looking up at the lane instead of down - then it wouldn't look so awkward. Ever tried to creep block while playing mid? Yeah, you know it's harder on Dire. Ever tried to last hit or deny creeps in the safe lane while there's a Primal Beast in your face? Yeah, you know it's harder on Dire. Ever noticed in the Dire offlane that the creeps do this weird angled turn right after passing the Tier 1 tower? Yeah, you guessed it, that makes it harder to block their pathing.
That is why Dota is very interesting because of this by playing either side which adds a different perspective in gameplay. Imagine you always play radiant, it gets really boring.
TO BE fair, you can only accidently click the minimap's top-right corner while trying to run to safety on Radiant side, causing your retreat to turn into a hilarious charge of death. Lord knows I have done this in many games. I know they have that minimap delay thing, but when I'm mashing it doesn't matter hahaha. I suppose it could happen in certain fights to a Dire player, but more often than not you are retreating in one direction in this game.
I am so glad someone is finally talking about it. The radiant advantage is ridiculous i have 58% winrate on radiant and 44 on dire. I literally never double down on dire because its mathematically wrong to do so. I hope they will adress this at some point
Isnt ther in tournaments the possibility to either choose a side or a first pick? Which makes it actualy kinda sensful to leave it unbalanced. otherwise there is no reason to choose the draft initiative. I actualy think its wanted like that.
@@pietpaco4065 well in ranked u cant take side. so half of the players start the game with disadvantage. its not balanced, and it shouldnt be like that. The reason why teams have a change to pick side, its cus they can be both comfortably with fp and lp.
@@altairduisembai in ranked you have no control over which side you get so you will statistically get each 50% of the time, so all players are on the same terms in general. I really see no problem here (outside of the case with double downs, but it wouldn't be the only example of how they negatively affect matchmaking). Getting dire is more balanced than playing black in chess.
so this is why i feel like i have not enough ward when playing dire side, most of time when i play support my mindset is to set defensive ward, after watching this what should i do is maybe instead putting defensive ward, instead i should've set ward on radiant side to predict enemies and maybe setting up a gank
ye, when I play pos 5 on dire side I look for a window to sneak around and ward radiant cliff next to the radiant secret shop. That way I can see enemy mid ganking from the river. If there is another spare ward for me on lane I will place it right between the double stairs(the place where you can go up from the river into the edge of dire topside jungle and then you have stair on your right to enter dire topside highground. That way I can see enemy mid trying to gank through our jungle.
defensive wards - you put it when the enemy is the one trying to control the map. if your lineup is good enough to setup smoke ganks, i'd rather be sneaking placing wards near radiant camps where your enemy can barely suspect it. You don't have to go defensive wards just because you're in dire team. I bet you noticed how easily your wards gets dewarded if you put it defensively.
Another small thing that gives radiant advantage over dire is that dire tier 3 backdoor area is closer to their tier 2 meaning their backdoor can be turned off when enemy creeps are at their tier 2. Meanwhile radiant t3 backdoor zone doesn’t cover their t2 so the creeps need to get slightly closer to turn off the backdoor. It's like dota makes you play dire each time it wants you to lose.
Ermmm..I have ~2200 hours and also I'm huge overthinker, so I just remember only few times when i fkdup with missclicking the minimap. I usually missclick "T" when I try to ultimate, so I decided change teleport to "Tab"
It makes you wonder why the twin gate on radiant side is not mirrored to be on the other side of the little hill its on. Its obviously a small thing but once you notice it, its hard to not think about...
in competitive, map advantage is counter balanced the first/last pick, because the other team can choose pick order if one team chooses map side in this TI, it is almost perfect balance in this case
Also don't forget that trying to gank a radiant mid from the jungle is almost impossible because the tower is protecting the stairs, unlike for the dire where you can rotate from behind and gank.
From leddt: Here is a breakdown of Radiant vs Dire win rate over time (in ranked games past 1 week). Radiant advantage starts big but shrinks progressively until minute 39, after which Dire has a higher win rate. Minute Radiant winrate Dire winrate Radiant advantage Total games 0-19 60.46% 39.54% 20.92% 28,779 20-24 62.78% 37.22% 25.57% 90,591 25-29 59.52% 40.48% 19.03% 276,359 30-34 55.07% 44.93% 10.14% 530,180 35-39 51.22% 48.78% 2.45% 600,484 40-44 49.07% 50.93% -1.85% 551,610 45-49 48.41% 51.59% -3.19% 357,070 50-54 48.54% 51.46% -2.91% 214,402 55-59 48.73% 51.27% -2.53% 106,286 60-64 48.38% 51.62% -3.24% 51,726 65-69 48.91% 51.09% -2.18% 28,296 70+ 49.99% 50.01% -0.02% 21,127
to balance this they should give dire tools to stall so they can be better at doing this give them shrines replenishing their health and to radiant give ones that restore mana
65% WR on Radiant @ 66 games vs 49% WR on Dire @ 71 games the past 12 months... never really noticed this shift since i used to have near perfect balance on both before the map change lol
I like how you put alot information into a short amount of time without beeing hectic while explaining. I enjoyed the calm voice. I subbed and looking further for more Content! gg wp! Also: I can imagine they want it to be unbalanced since (as far as i remember) in competative games sometimes you can choose either to pick a side OR have the initiative in draft (to chosoe if you want first pick or not). i like that little strategicly implement there.
another thing to point out which is a major one is that midlane neutrals on the radiant side are on the high ground and the high ground itself is closer to midlane which makes losing the lane much less painful in comparison to dire where the midlaner is always exposed if he chooses to farm camps closest to the lane because they are on the same ground level.
I'd like to put my thoughts unto this. I've been a long time offlane player most of my gaming days, started transitioning to carry now, and what ive noticed, during the laning phase, the creeps on dire safelane, the trees screws you up as the creepwave (if no blocks or hardly any blocks are involved), tend to meet near tier 1 tower and if you aggro them, the creeps gets mumbo jumbled in the trees making your creeps hit them 1-2 times while the opposing creep try to aggro you making your creeps hit enemy creeps more so and thus ruining equilibrium further. Idk, just my thoughts.
@@SportsBettingFacts just try playing in dire safelane as carry. when creeps meet at tree areas near tier 1, whenever you aggro, creeps move around and jumble in the tree area unlike in bot safelane radiant where the lane is like a parking lot where creeps can move wherever they want
True, i always have better farming experience when in radiant side. And also the camera angle from the dire side is awkward to spot enemy not like in league of legends where the camera angle is rotated to your side.
Another reason is that Dire has a low number of trees in its safe lane, so pos 5s that trade very well or punish positioning are much worse due to less FOW and more tree paths to escape from. Heros like Treant and Pudge are awful as pos 5 on Dire but significantly better on Radiant.
I haven't seen the video yet but i'm guessing it's because of the camera angle, it gives more useful vision for the radiant side, you see around you and a bit further forward, which for the dire side you see around you and towards your base
But when dire took over the map, it would be pretty much harder for radiant to take all over again, the defense is gonna be really wild against dire in high-ground late battle, especially if it is already in mega-creep state, i personally never face an harder time when it comes to defend the ancient toward the megas as a radiant compared as a dire, it just somehow feels a subtle different of difficulty for the both side. I mean just take a look at radiant's outpost tho, that area is pretty solid, it's way more closer to the base compared to the dire's post, now imagine that outpost got taken by the dire, radiant would face a really much hard time when they're losing that outpost in the late game, dewarding that location would be pain in the ass. And now again, at the other side, take a look at between the top dire jungle area and bottom radiant jungle area, just like as you said, radiant's roshan pit is pretty much solid tho, the larger vision, wider area,brighter fog in daytime for roshan, etc and etc, if dire took over all the place, they wouldn't going to give it really easy for the radiant to recapture that jungle, because that place is pretty solid, it is also probably one of the only way for radiant to farm if they losing everything in the map, so i don't think dire would going to loose that place that easy for radiant to keep just for them to farm and maintaining the vision in roshan's pit. While the top jungle dire itself, i simply don't really think radiant would give a fuck that much to maintain a solid pressure in there other than placing a ward to keep the track of the dire's safelane and waiting for the turn of night time of roshan's pit.
One thing that i personally notice tho in the game, that pushing a dire's tier 3 tower in the top lane is also feels more scarier than pushing the radiant's tier 3 in the bottom lane, idk, it is just so subtle yet you can feel it in the game, i know it's not gonna be in all case for that to happen, but for me personally it really mostly is, doesn't matter either you are playing the match by yourself or just watching the pros match, it's all feel the same to me honestly. There is like a subtle thing of feeling comfortable when pushing the radiant base, while feeling nervous when pushing dire.
Well, I play pos 5 and have more winrate by dire. Since most of mentioned make sense, it mostly depends how you can use it in your favour. Dire woods are easier to defend, which also makes it harder to fb on bounty there. Pull camp is basically unblockable, since you can put defence sentry on high ground. It is not surrounded by trees, so the pull window is wider, it can be stacked from any direction easily and half pull is easier to do. Roshpit thing actually works counter wise, it’s harder for radiant to contest radiant roshpit
Lol its been like this forever too.. I have like 62% winrate on radiant and 38% wr dire or something crazy this should be looked at also put Rosh back in the middle of the map instead of the corners of the map
Thanks for your video! It was very interesting and i agree about radiant being stronger than dire, but i think there is simpler explanation: "good always triumphs over evil".
I saw experiment many years ago where map was played by creeps only w/o heroes and it would result in radiant creeps winning the game a bit more often than dire (also ~52vs48). Does it still hold?
Nah I watched a video where a guy made 100 matches 10 times and it was almost 50 percent (dire won 2 matches more than radiant). For creeps it's more about lowground miss
My Dire Winrate is always way higher for some reason, but it depends on what Heroes I play. And I tend to OTP a lot so if I play a Hero I win a lot more on Dire on, I guess my Dire is way higher.
most of time to fallback situation is a bit of panick, when in radiant i sometimes clicked on the map instead to fallback that leads me to lose, just personal skill issue..; but still my radiant wr is 50% while my dire wr is above 50%
I have some points to give to Dire. Consider it as my opinion and what I sense from my games + Better secret shop(buying from HG and better place for couriers) + Dire can play on Radiant side better than Radiant on Dire side + That fact about Rosh I think it is better to kill Rosh during night (less likely to be interupted and Agha scepter
My Dire winrate is is 48% while my Radiant is at 58%. It's absolutely ridiculous. I think another thing to point out is the viewing direction. As Dire, when you're pushing down against Radiant base, you always have to push your screen further down way more than when Radiant player does need to push their screen up when pushing up against Dire.
Great video, makes you wonder why ice frog doesn't just make the camp sizes the same..Also that high pitched noise was driving me crazy...thought I was hearing things..
Radiant always had a slight advantage. Always. If you dont have too many hours and play irregularly then radiant has a big advantage for sure. One of the reasons most player started playing as radiant also other map, vision, camp benefits
Yes, but you can take so much time just killing the ward, then denying your own, instead of two a-clicks, you spend 3-4 more click, wasting more seconds instead of harassing the enemy carry. You see the problem here my guy?
I would also add camera angle: Radiants have more vision to dire side of map/direction. Camera is placed to provide vision like this: |__/ or moe accurately: | / | / |____________/
I got 49% win rates in dire and 57% in radiant, even the smurf account (which I am not proud of) which I use to team up with some low mmr frineds has 69% in radiant and 62% in dire.
@@akashghosh2493 in a tournament yes because you're counting all games in tournament and analysing each match to see who won, however on this case we are accounting the sides separately for one guy, if his winrate is higher than 50% it wont amount to 100% winrate, it will be more
Radiant is easier because you are playing from the bottom of the screen to the top of it. Moving from top to bottom feels less comfortable no matter the game you are playing
It’s like cs go the good side/defenders should have the better high ground and vision but worse offense. Dota pubs are usually based on defense early to mid game where everyone farms. Radiant takes advantage of that but dire can still take over if they bring the fight to them with smoke ganks and mid rotations. The win rate difference in pro games is only 4% while in pubs could be up to 4-8%, In Pubs people also don’t know how to play from behind which strengthens radiant even more.
I may agree with everything related to easy lanes vision and hitboxes on both side you shown us. Apart from that I think you are wrong 1:14 Most of the carry are leaving their line after minute ~10 or before that if their T1 has been destroyed. Thereby they are starting to farm early. And the most important - only part of them are buying morbid mask, usually this heroes has zero self heal. Sometimes morbid upgraded to MoM. Only few carry heroes need to buy a MoM early. It's usually ranged hero or hero with very heavy ultimate (drow, sf, sven, void, luna). So you cast your heavy abilities at start of a fight and then you use MoM, otherwise you might not have a time to use your abilities after 8 sec silence window. All other heroes has either their own healing method, or they have really fast refreshing abilities. And mom starts to ruin the build. Thereby it's easier to not to spend a money on lifesteal at all, if you are playing on the Dire side. Since you are constantly has a health regeneration on the top side. Most of carry heroes has a split damage mechanism to avoid additional damage, or they are simply buying bf or maelstorm to farm faster. And mana regen (50 clarity or 75 mango) are usually cheaper than health regen (90 tango or 100 flask). It's easier to regen mana then health in Dota 2 and health is much more important resource than mana. 1:35 2/6 dire triangle entrances are facing dire base, 2/6 are facing dire lane, 2/6 are facing radiant lane. radiant has 1 entrance facing radiant base, 2 lanes are facing radiant lane, 2 entrances are facing dire. Dire has more options to come from a base to their triangle to defend it starting from the mid game. Apart from that they has an identical entrance options, I don't see any benefit for radiant here. 1:47 I see the same area both from dire side and radiant high grounds, what are you even talking about 2:05 i think this is the most important point you made, but you had wrong conclusions. second and further Roshans on dire side are more rewarding, than radiant one. they are dropping ready to use aghanim, literally 6k gold net worth for a hero in the team. if dota2 didn't had a current 30 minute game meta, dire would benefit much more having two or more roshans in the game. the radiant WR here is based on meta, not on Roshan pit position and area vision. 2:35 once dire hero TPed to radiant side, he has less distance to travel to join a fight. radiant tower doesn't have vision over the trees on bottom lane. radiant hero after being TPed to top, has to go 3x distance to lane if he doesn't want to be seen
I don't mind these Variables, I think the only "relevant" one as a whole is it's more natural to play from the bottom up....(and to a lesser degree left to right) and that's it. Everything from space Invaders onward has been bottom up for a reason. I think Riot games toyed with the Idea of having a mirrored game were both sides play from the bottom up but see the other side playing from top.
I think you are close to the "truth", infact radiant always had a better winrate even when rosh pit was in dire side of the map. Never heard Riot mirroed the map, maybe this could be the only solution.
Battlerite did this. The maps are mirrored and you always play from the left side(for your perspective) whilst one of the teams is actually on the right - but has everything mirrored.
Radiant safelane highground is almost twice as big as dire safelane highground lol. Also the position of topside cliff, the one right next to dire base is absolutely useless.
I even think heros are majorly unbalanced. Everything is all pro play and I get it that it's really an integral part. But in a bit lower brackets where randoms aren't that coordinated. Some heros have spells that deal like 60-70% of HP damage with just a single spell and single button . Complex heros aren't just worth to play in my opinion when you do the exact same thing by pressing 1 button.
Deadlock is perfectly symmetrical. Icefrog finally stopped taking entheogens and is making sense now I'd say. Dota 2's trademark is asymmetry though so it makes sense, but Dota 3 is kind of a breath of fresh air and it feels nice when a game is fair for once
But all the strengths are for Radiant, Dire does not even have a good thing going for it. Why not make both sides have their own strengths and weaknesses, instead of completely obliterating one side?
@@LuxConcordiae a lot of these advantages are only perceived. consider the fact that there's really only a 0-2% difference in winrate between radiant and dire, instead of something massive like a 10% difference. For example, the ward cliff that exists only on radiant safelane might seem like an advantage for radiant, but is also a very obvious ward spot, so someone on radiant who puts an obs there will also get it very easily dewarded, while on dire safe lane as dire, you have to be much more creative with your obs placement, which also means you're much less likely to get dewarded.
@Killamoocow21 also nothing is preventing dire from placing a ward there instead of radiant, in which case radiant safelane would be more vulnerable to ganks, etc. It would also protect the offlane from ganks.
It should not ideally be 50/50. In pro play one side gets to choose Radiant/dire and the other side gets to choose first pick/last pick. So ideally the win rate of the factions needs to match the win rate of the draft order.
For the longest time it was the other way around... Seems like valve nerfed dire a bit too much. Though, i still have 54% winrate on dire across 2k games....
I have had this thought. if we really want an equal, League of Legend was ahead of Dota. Also the camera, hero, and UI placement, its easier playing as radiant.
@@AntiCx69 e.g. he has 200 games, 100 for dire and 100 for radiance. 52 won for dire and 52 won for radiance, 48 lost for dire and 48 lost for radiance. 52 + 52 + 48 + 48 = 200 which is the amount of games i mentioned in the beggining
@@lukic9276 yea well i everyone will do it like the way they showed in the video anyone will think that by default you should have mentioned your variables
I always assumed dire would have an advantage because when you try to run away from something mid you're less likely to CLICK THE FUCKING MINIMAP AND RUN TOWARD THE FUCKING DANGER! AGAIN!!! ...not that I have any trauma over this or anything.
Guys the video is 3.14 minutes because 3.14 is pi and pi can be measured in radians. Radian=radiant 😮
3:13 bro
The vid is 313 and radiant is a real word lmao
@@jaywong6964 You didn’t count second 0 ;)
2024 and people still dont know that youtube takes away a second from every video
@@pomurainWho would quess that?
Seems fair. Good guys should have advantage
lorewise radiant are as bad as dire
There's no good or bad side in Dota. Slacks covered this in his lore video. Radinthul and Diruulth both mindcontrol heroes and creatures to do their bidding. There's even a comic where a family slowly turns into creeps, losing their sense of self and becoming mindless creatures forced to fight a neverending war. (Neverending because each time Dire or Radiant loses, the explosion of the Nemesis Stones (The Core/Throne) stops and rewinds time back to when everything is up (This explains the infinite number of Dota games, with limitless possible combinations of heroes, not one game is similar to another. A game of Io, Gyro, Abaddon, Timber, Tiny vs Bristleback, Chen, Omniknight, Earth Spirit and Windranger could have a different outcome in another possibility)
It’s like cs go the good side/defenders should have the better high ground and vision but worse offense. Dota pubs are usually based on defense early to mid game where everyone farms. Radiant takes advantage of that but dire can still take over if they bring the fight to them with smoke ganks and mid rotations. The win rate difference in pro games is only 4% while in pubs could be up to 4-8%, In Pubs people also don’t know how to play from behind which strengthens radiant even more.
plot armor 😭
White advantage
It's the camera.
Dota is my first MOBA ever and I quickly realized the angle of the camera is a problem for the Dire side. Just the way it's positioned makes looking down at the map awkward in many angles and that's why you have these glaring differences with camps near the lanes being so skewed in what they can actually provide with lane equilibrium.
I've had a solution to this problem and I'm surprised Valve hasn't even experimented with the concept using a staging branch. Funnily enough, another game franchise has dealt with a similar camera issue: Tekken. In Tekken, moves and movement are dependent on which way your character is facing, so, naturally, there is going to be differences depending on if you start the round on the left or the right. The way they solved this was to have both players choose which side they'd prefer to start on, and if it happens to be the same side, the game would perform a kind of mirroring effect, where both players would see the other facing the contrasting side.
I think the camera in Dota has a lot to do with the disparity of win rates. If you could play Dire side with the camera at an angle exactly the same as Radiant - where you are looking up at the lane instead of down - then it wouldn't look so awkward.
Ever tried to creep block while playing mid? Yeah, you know it's harder on Dire.
Ever tried to last hit or deny creeps in the safe lane while there's a Primal Beast in your face? Yeah, you know it's harder on Dire.
Ever noticed in the Dire offlane that the creeps do this weird angled turn right after passing the Tier 1 tower? Yeah, you guessed it, that makes it harder to block their pathing.
you're right, I've always thought about that as well
That is why Dota is very interesting because of this by playing either side which adds a different perspective in gameplay. Imagine you always play radiant, it gets really boring.
TO BE fair, you can only accidently click the minimap's top-right corner while trying to run to safety on Radiant side, causing your retreat to turn into a hilarious charge of death. Lord knows I have done this in many games. I know they have that minimap delay thing, but when I'm mashing it doesn't matter hahaha. I suppose it could happen in certain fights to a Dire player, but more often than not you are retreating in one direction in this game.
@@echoftw The ironic thing about "being fair" about this is that the stats show it isn't fair.
@@Jabude If the angle of the camera determines your enjoyment for the entirety of the game then Dota is trash and should just die lol
I am so glad someone is finally talking about it. The radiant advantage is ridiculous i have 58% winrate on radiant and 44 on dire. I literally never double down on dire because its mathematically wrong to do so. I hope they will adress this at some point
Isnt ther in tournaments the possibility to either choose a side or a first pick? Which makes it actualy kinda sensful to leave it unbalanced. otherwise there is no reason to choose the draft initiative. I actualy think its wanted like that.
@@pietpaco4065 well in ranked u cant take side. so half of the players start the game with disadvantage. its not balanced, and it shouldnt be like that. The reason why teams have a change to pick side, its cus they can be both comfortably with fp and lp.
@@altairduisembai fair point
@@altairduisembai in ranked you have no control over which side you get so you will statistically get each 50% of the time, so all players are on the same terms in general. I really see no problem here (outside of the case with double downs, but it wouldn't be the only example of how they negatively affect matchmaking). Getting dire is more balanced than playing black in chess.
I doubled down playing dire with a mid clock 😂
so this is why i feel like i have not enough ward when playing dire side, most of time when i play support my mindset is to set defensive ward, after watching this what should i do is maybe instead putting defensive ward, instead i should've set ward on radiant side to predict enemies and maybe setting up a gank
ye, when I play pos 5 on dire side I look for a window to sneak around and ward radiant cliff next to the radiant secret shop. That way I can see enemy mid ganking from the river. If there is another spare ward for me on lane I will place it right between the double stairs(the place where you can go up from the river into the edge of dire topside jungle and then you have stair on your right to enter dire topside highground. That way I can see enemy mid trying to gank through our jungle.
defensive wards - you put it when the enemy is the one trying to control the map. if your lineup is good enough to setup smoke ganks, i'd rather be sneaking placing wards near radiant camps where your enemy can barely suspect it. You don't have to go defensive wards just because you're in dire team. I bet you noticed how easily your wards gets dewarded if you put it defensively.
Another small thing that gives radiant advantage over dire is that dire tier 3 backdoor area is closer to their tier 2 meaning their backdoor can be turned off when enemy creeps are at their tier 2. Meanwhile radiant t3 backdoor zone doesn’t cover their t2 so the creeps need to get slightly closer to turn off the backdoor. It's like dota makes you play dire each time it wants you to lose.
Also, I think abother contributing factor is Dire players accidentally misclicking the minimap. I think its easier to do on Dire side
This.
I completely swapped the minimap to the right side JUST to stop clicking on the map.
@@FrustratedProgrammer
I do that too
Now I accidentally buy items
Ermmm..I have ~2200 hours and also I'm huge overthinker, so I just remember only few times when i fkdup with missclicking the minimap. I usually missclick "T" when I try to ultimate, so I decided change teleport to "Tab"
there is a delay misclick protect setting to adjust this
It makes you wonder why the twin gate on radiant side is not mirrored to be on the other side of the little hill its on. Its obviously a small thing but once you notice it, its hard to not think about...
bonus: in radiant triangle you can put one sentry to spot multiple wards from entrances while in dire you can not
It's like the difference between Heaven and Hell
1:41 someone needed to meet the deadline and didn't want to do another take KEKW
Bro could've just spliced the 48 other times he said "radiant"
R A D I A N T
in competitive, map advantage is counter balanced the first/last pick, because the other team can choose pick order if one team chooses map side
in this TI, it is almost perfect balance in this case
Also don't forget that trying to gank a radiant mid from the jungle is almost impossible because the tower is protecting the stairs, unlike for the dire where you can rotate from behind and gank.
Interesting! I also feel like it's more natural to play upwards and right (radiant) than down and left (dire) most of the time.
From leddt: Here is a breakdown of Radiant vs Dire win rate over time (in ranked games past 1 week). Radiant advantage starts big but shrinks progressively until minute 39, after which Dire has a higher win rate.
Minute Radiant winrate Dire winrate Radiant advantage Total games
0-19 60.46% 39.54% 20.92% 28,779
20-24 62.78% 37.22% 25.57% 90,591
25-29 59.52% 40.48% 19.03% 276,359
30-34 55.07% 44.93% 10.14% 530,180
35-39 51.22% 48.78% 2.45% 600,484
40-44 49.07% 50.93% -1.85% 551,610
45-49 48.41% 51.59% -3.19% 357,070
50-54 48.54% 51.46% -2.91% 214,402
55-59 48.73% 51.27% -2.53% 106,286
60-64 48.38% 51.62% -3.24% 51,726
65-69 48.91% 51.09% -2.18% 28,296
70+ 49.99% 50.01% -0.02% 21,127
to balance this they should give dire tools to stall so they can be better at doing this give them shrines replenishing their health and to radiant give ones that restore mana
really the most annoying is the triangle distance for the dire, you are right. Offlane as dire is a bit harder coz of this.
65% WR on Radiant @ 66 games vs 49% WR on Dire @ 71 games the past 12 months... never really noticed this shift since i used to have near perfect balance on both before the map change lol
Radiant wishing well is also beneficial. Dires mining gives the neutrals +5hp regen
not anymore, they realised this breaks afk farming, patched since 7.35
I play lot of pudge and always felt easy and comfortable to play radiant didn't see this coming
I like how you put alot information into a short amount of time without beeing hectic while explaining. I enjoyed the calm voice. I subbed and looking further for more Content! gg wp! Also: I can imagine they want it to be unbalanced since (as far as i remember) in competative games sometimes you can choose either to pick a side OR have the initiative in draft (to chosoe if you want first pick or not). i like that little strategicly implement there.
Last 6 months according to Dotabuff: 60.8% winrate on Radiant, 51.4% winrate on Dire (204 matches). 97 matches as Radiant 107 matches as Dire.
Now when i think about, everything makes sense. I always hate being pos 5 at dire but didn't think through why.
another thing to point out which is a major one is that midlane neutrals on the radiant side are on the high ground and the high ground itself is closer to midlane which makes losing the lane much less painful in comparison to dire where the midlaner is always exposed if he chooses to farm camps closest to the lane because they are on the same ground level.
Tell me the time when Dota 2 was ever balanced
I'd like to put my thoughts unto this. I've been a long time offlane player most of my gaming days, started transitioning to carry now, and what ive noticed, during the laning phase, the creeps on dire safelane, the trees screws you up as the creepwave (if no blocks or hardly any blocks are involved), tend to meet near tier 1 tower and if you aggro them, the creeps gets mumbo jumbled in the trees making your creeps hit them 1-2 times while the opposing creep try to aggro you making your creeps hit enemy creeps more so and thus ruining equilibrium further. Idk, just my thoughts.
I don't understand what you are saying
@@SportsBettingFacts just try playing in dire safelane as carry. when creeps meet at tree areas near tier 1, whenever you aggro, creeps move around and jumble in the tree area unlike in bot safelane radiant where the lane is like a parking lot where creeps can move wherever they want
@@lassejuha7194 Thanx
Being able to channel the radiant twin portal from low ground blew my mind.
True, i always have better farming experience when in radiant side. And also the camera angle from the dire side is awkward to spot enemy not like in league of legends where the camera angle is rotated to your side.
Another reason is that Dire has a low number of trees in its safe lane, so pos 5s that trade very well or punish positioning are much worse due to less FOW and more tree paths to escape from. Heros like Treant and Pudge are awful as pos 5 on Dire but significantly better on Radiant.
I haven't seen the video yet but i'm guessing it's because of the camera angle, it gives more useful vision for the radiant side, you see around you and a bit further forward, which for the dire side you see around you and towards your base
Surprised you didn't we.
But when dire took over the map, it would be pretty much harder for radiant to take all over again, the defense is gonna be really wild against dire in high-ground late battle, especially if it is already in mega-creep state, i personally never face an harder time when it comes to defend the ancient toward the megas as a radiant compared as a dire, it just somehow feels a subtle different of difficulty for the both side.
I mean just take a look at radiant's outpost tho, that area is pretty solid, it's way more closer to the base compared to the dire's post, now imagine that outpost got taken by the dire, radiant would face a really much hard time when they're losing that outpost in the late game, dewarding that location would be pain in the ass.
And now again, at the other side, take a look at between the top dire jungle area and bottom radiant jungle area, just like as you said, radiant's roshan pit is pretty much solid tho, the larger vision, wider area,brighter fog in daytime for roshan, etc and etc, if dire took over all the place, they wouldn't going to give it really easy for the radiant to recapture that jungle, because that place is pretty solid, it is also probably one of the only way for radiant to farm if they losing everything in the map, so i don't think dire would going to loose that place that easy for radiant to keep just for them to farm and maintaining the vision in roshan's pit.
While the top jungle dire itself, i simply don't really think radiant would give a fuck that much to maintain a solid pressure in there other than placing a ward to keep the track of the dire's safelane and waiting for the turn of night time of roshan's pit.
One thing that i personally notice tho in the game, that pushing a dire's tier 3 tower in the top lane is also feels more scarier than pushing the radiant's tier 3 in the bottom lane, idk, it is just so subtle yet you can feel it in the game, i know it's not gonna be in all case for that to happen, but for me personally it really mostly is, doesn't matter either you are playing the match by yourself or just watching the pros match, it's all feel the same to me honestly.
There is like a subtle thing of feeling comfortable when pushing the radiant base, while feeling nervous when pushing dire.
Great breakdown - I show a 4.2% winrate advantage in my battle report as well.
I remember a few years ago when you could walk by the tier 1 mid on radiant side but not on dire side it always annoyed me until they fixed it
After my first Dota game against bots, I thought if I played Dire, camera perspective would be the same, but it wasn't. It was disappointing.
Well, I play pos 5 and have more winrate by dire. Since most of mentioned make sense, it mostly depends how you can use it in your favour. Dire woods are easier to defend, which also makes it harder to fb on bounty there. Pull camp is basically unblockable, since you can put defence sentry on high ground. It is not surrounded by trees, so the pull window is wider, it can be stacked from any direction easily and half pull is easier to do. Roshpit thing actually works counter wise, it’s harder for radiant to contest radiant roshpit
Lol its been like this forever too.. I have like 62% winrate on radiant and 38% wr dire or something crazy
this should be looked at
also put Rosh back in the middle of the map instead of the corners of the map
liked, commented, subscribed. goodluck for your channel
i knew my liking to playing radiant had a reason to it .
there were just games that felt off just by spawning in dire
Based on map placement blocking creep is must easier in radiant safe lane than dire safe lane
Thanks for your video! It was very interesting and i agree about radiant being stronger than dire, but i think there is simpler explanation: "good always triumphs over evil".
I saw experiment many years ago where map was played by creeps only w/o heroes and it would result in radiant creeps winning the game a bit more often than dire (also ~52vs48). Does it still hold?
Nah I watched a video where a guy made 100 matches 10 times and it was almost 50 percent (dire won 2 matches more than radiant). For creeps it's more about lowground miss
My Dire Winrate is always way higher for some reason, but it depends on what Heroes I play. And I tend to OTP a lot so if I play a Hero I win a lot more on Dire on, I guess my Dire is way higher.
most of time to fallback situation is a bit of panick, when in radiant i sometimes clicked on the map instead to fallback that leads me to lose, just personal skill issue..; but still my radiant wr is 50% while my dire wr is above 50%
Nice documentation!
Collab soon Mr. Tzar Potato?
@@MidlaneBackseaters Sure, what do you have in mind?
Seems like the new map has some kinks to work out. I wouldn't want it mirrored, but a few things need to have a dire advantage
it's sooo much easier to delay radiant's 1st wave creep so that dire's will come into tower range
Awesome vid bro. Keep it up
The Radiant mid having quicker access to a camp is the biggest factor of all + radiant safe lane ward spot
I have some points to give to Dire. Consider it as my opinion and what I sense from my games
+ Better secret shop(buying from HG and better place for couriers)
+ Dire can play on Radiant side better than Radiant on Dire side
+ That fact about Rosh I think it is better to kill Rosh during night (less likely to be interupted and Agha scepter
so true. good video. I like playing on radiant too. feels more naturally
0:55 no wonder whenever I pull creeps on Dire for some odd reason the creep waves barely receive damage where as on Radiant its the opposite.
My Dire winrate is is 48% while my Radiant is at 58%. It's absolutely ridiculous.
I think another thing to point out is the viewing direction. As Dire, when you're pushing down against Radiant base, you always have to push your screen further down way more than when Radiant player does need to push their screen up when pushing up against Dire.
Great video, makes you wonder why ice frog doesn't just make the camp sizes the same..Also that high pitched noise was driving me crazy...thought I was hearing things..
the maps made by purpose, its for tournaments BO2-BO5...so both teams can be play in dire and radiant
Radiant mid laner can reach the river faster than the dire one. So you can place ward earlier.
Radiant always had a slight advantage. Always. If you dont have too many hours and play irregularly then radiant has a big advantage for sure. One of the reasons most player started playing as radiant also other map, vision, camp benefits
Also it’s harder to hook/arrow from Dire side because of the angles.
59% winrate on radiant and 52 in dire.
And I've never lost any games in my qop in radiant (only 7 games tho) pog
Radiant hard camp can be checked with one ward...just put it in the camp, deward and deny
Yes, but you can take so much time just killing the ward, then denying your own, instead of two a-clicks, you spend 3-4 more click, wasting more seconds instead of harassing the enemy carry. You see the problem here my guy?
why doesnt dire safelane have like a cliff tho, its so far its near the midlane lmao
like the cliff near the radiant safelane where wards are placed
actually radiant gives you "SOME TYPE OF WAYS" like it has advantage for some reasons..
very nice video mate
I would also add camera angle:
Radiants have more vision to dire side of map/direction. Camera is placed to provide vision like this:
|__/
or moe accurately:
| /
| /
|____________/
for me it's just easier to attack to x+ y+ direction (1 o'clock direction) than x- y- direction (7 o'clock direction)
so true. i guess it is also related to left to right writing.
No 10 minute bullshit, subscribed.
I got 49% win rates in dire and 57% in radiant, even the smurf account (which I am not proud of) which I use to team up with some low mmr frineds has 69% in radiant and 62% in dire.
shouldn't the winrates add up to be a 100
@@akashghosh2493 in a tournament yes because you're counting all games in tournament and analysing each match to see who won, however on this case we are accounting the sides separately for one guy, if his winrate is higher than 50% it wont amount to 100% winrate, it will be more
@@akashghosh2493 I don't think so, they add up to 53%, which is my total winrate.
Well. At least it is no as bad as the copycat version where the blue side does more damage to the point the game ends in 20 minutes of idle.
There's also the fact in u play solo ranked, your total games in Dire will be more than Radiant.
It sucks.
I wonder if that's true for everyone
Radiant is easier because you are playing from the bottom of the screen to the top of it. Moving from top to bottom feels less comfortable no matter the game you are playing
It’s like cs go the good side/defenders should have the better high ground and vision but worse offense. Dota pubs are usually based on defense early to mid game where everyone farms. Radiant takes advantage of that but dire can still take over if they bring the fight to them with smoke ganks and mid rotations. The win rate difference in pro games is only 4% while in pubs could be up to 4-8%, In Pubs people also don’t know how to play from behind which strengthens radiant even more.
And it's not only because of the new map. I already have a 57% winrate on radiant and only 49% on dire even before 7.33.
All of these can be positives for Dire when they control the map.
As a support, I know this, it is very noticeable.
Dire's safe lane has NO ward placement unlike Radiant, which I deem it so hard…
I'll show them this link if they start blaming me on losing lane
thnx man
Lets go! Welcome to UA-cam man!
I may agree with everything related to easy lanes vision and hitboxes on both side you shown us.
Apart from that I think you are wrong
1:14 Most of the carry are leaving their line after minute ~10 or before that if their T1 has been destroyed. Thereby they are starting to farm early. And the most important - only part of them are buying morbid mask, usually this heroes has zero self heal. Sometimes morbid upgraded to MoM. Only few carry heroes need to buy a MoM early. It's usually ranged hero or hero with very heavy ultimate (drow, sf, sven, void, luna). So you cast your heavy abilities at start of a fight and then you use MoM, otherwise you might not have a time to use your abilities after 8 sec silence window. All other heroes has either their own healing method, or they have really fast refreshing abilities. And mom starts to ruin the build. Thereby it's easier to not to spend a money on lifesteal at all, if you are playing on the Dire side. Since you are constantly has a health regeneration on the top side. Most of carry heroes has a split damage mechanism to avoid additional damage, or they are simply buying bf or maelstorm to farm faster. And mana regen (50 clarity or 75 mango) are usually cheaper than health regen (90 tango or 100 flask). It's easier to regen mana then health in Dota 2 and health is much more important resource than mana.
1:35 2/6 dire triangle entrances are facing dire base, 2/6 are facing dire lane, 2/6 are facing radiant lane. radiant has 1 entrance facing radiant base, 2 lanes are facing radiant lane, 2 entrances are facing dire. Dire has more options to come from a base to their triangle to defend it starting from the mid game. Apart from that they has an identical entrance options, I don't see any benefit for radiant here.
1:47 I see the same area both from dire side and radiant high grounds, what are you even talking about
2:05 i think this is the most important point you made, but you had wrong conclusions. second and further Roshans on dire side are more rewarding, than radiant one. they are dropping ready to use aghanim, literally 6k gold net worth for a hero in the team. if dota2 didn't had a current 30 minute game meta, dire would benefit much more having two or more roshans in the game. the radiant WR here is based on meta, not on Roshan pit position and area vision.
2:35 once dire hero TPed to radiant side, he has less distance to travel to join a fight. radiant tower doesn't have vision over the trees on bottom lane. radiant hero after being TPed to top, has to go 3x distance to lane if he doesn't want to be seen
wrong
I don't mind these Variables, I think the only "relevant" one as a whole is it's more natural to play from the bottom up....(and to a lesser degree left to right) and that's it. Everything from space Invaders onward has been bottom up for a reason. I think Riot games toyed with the Idea of having a mirrored game were both sides play from the bottom up but see the other side playing from top.
I think you are close to the "truth", infact radiant always had a better winrate even when rosh pit was in dire side of the map.
Never heard Riot mirroed the map, maybe this could be the only solution.
Battlerite did this. The maps are mirrored and you always play from the left side(for your perspective) whilst one of the teams is actually on the right - but has everything mirrored.
fov for radiant is better than fov for dire. Radiant literally sees more of dire than dire sees of radiant
I just checked myself 47% dire, 53% radiant, seems legit
Radiant safelane highground is almost twice as big as dire safelane highground lol.
Also the position of topside cliff, the one right next to dire base is absolutely useless.
I even think heros are majorly unbalanced. Everything is all pro play and I get it that it's really an integral part. But in a bit lower brackets where randoms aren't that coordinated. Some heros have spells that deal like 60-70% of HP damage with just a single spell and single button . Complex heros aren't just worth to play in my opinion when you do the exact same thing by pressing 1 button.
While the winrate would ideally be 50/50, I'd rather have it be slightly unbalanced and asymmetrical than completely balanced and symmetrical
Deadlock is perfectly symmetrical. Icefrog finally stopped taking entheogens and is making sense now I'd say. Dota 2's trademark is asymmetry though so it makes sense, but Dota 3 is kind of a breath of fresh air and it feels nice when a game is fair for once
But all the strengths are for Radiant, Dire does not even have a good thing going for it. Why not make both sides have their own strengths and weaknesses, instead of completely obliterating one side?
@@LuxConcordiae a lot of these advantages are only perceived. consider the fact that there's really only a 0-2% difference in winrate between radiant and dire, instead of something massive like a 10% difference. For example, the ward cliff that exists only on radiant safelane might seem like an advantage for radiant, but is also a very obvious ward spot, so someone on radiant who puts an obs there will also get it very easily dewarded, while on dire safe lane as dire, you have to be much more creative with your obs placement, which also means you're much less likely to get dewarded.
@Killamoocow21 also nothing is preventing dire from placing a ward there instead of radiant, in which case radiant safelane would be more vulnerable to ganks, etc. It would also protect the offlane from ganks.
It should not ideally be 50/50. In pro play one side gets to choose Radiant/dire and the other side gets to choose first pick/last pick. So ideally the win rate of the factions needs to match the win rate of the draft order.
Cutting mid wave is easier than dire too
It is too hard to make a mirrored map.
Or is it done on purose?
So based on the information from this video.... CM is getting nerfed again
For the longest time it was the other way around... Seems like valve nerfed dire a bit too much. Though, i still have 54% winrate on dire across 2k games....
I have had this thought. if we really want an equal, League of Legend was ahead of Dota.
Also the camera, hero, and UI placement, its easier playing as radiant.
importantly, the camera is tilted to the top of the map, away from radiant
actually first explanation i've seen that covers most important aspects rather than BS reasons like Field of view and camera shit which is irrelevant.
I mean the logical thing to do is to simply copy/pate make map perfectly symmetrical. But that would be boring as hell.
WTF, i have 71.4% on Radiant and 45.5% on Dire D:
I also have 64% winrate...probaly be couse of the Radiant side... thats harsh... youre right
Dire highground is harder to break than Radiant.
Game losing fights happen on Radiant side.
I believe it, but oddly enough, i have higher dire side win rate by like 10%.
Valve devs needs to see this.
0:37 what’s the name of this background?
remember when rosh pit was just beside dire mid? 😂
League players: yall just realized?
Your video has a weird ticking sound on the left side starting from 21 seconds.
I've got 52.3% winrate on both sides, but you're totally right tho
so you the total is 104.6%?? math aint mathing where you live?
@@AntiCx69 e.g. he has 200 games, 100 for dire and 100 for radiance. 52 won for dire and 52 won for radiance, 48 lost for dire and 48 lost for radiance. 52 + 52 + 48 + 48 = 200 which is the amount of games i mentioned in the beggining
@@AntiCx69 fogyx explained it for you my friend, no need to rush to conclusions
@@lukic9276 yea well i everyone will do it like the way they showed in the video anyone will think that by default you should have mentioned your variables
I always assumed dire would have an advantage because when you try to run away from something mid you're less likely to CLICK THE FUCKING MINIMAP AND RUN TOWARD THE FUCKING DANGER! AGAIN!!! ...not that I have any trauma over this or anything.
idk i always have more winrate when im playing dire
my dire winrate is 74% and radiant is 68%
My win rate is much larger on radiant and i am pretty sure it has to do with camera placement just seems more natural on radiant