Enjoying learning this stuff from you, man! Clever idea to make the mark on the bar and simply melt if off instead of making a mess with a saw, or something!
oldscout7 - Just make a small mark with your Sharpie though, you don't want a lot of ink going under the surface of your molten lead. And if you use the two channel lock plier trick, the bar is held at precisely the right level for a sure melt off. Gotta lock 'em good though... Good castin' to ya, FC
I’m in the commercial and industrial piping industry. Everyone gets issued a pair of “chanies.” They last forever. If people in the industry ever stop stealing them from their employer and giving them to friends and family they would go out of business. Because like I said they last forever.
That is an improvement over the one I used. I know that all of these assume air cooled. I wish someone could come up with a calculator or table to arrive at hardness after heat treat. The way I would want the calculator to work would be to set a total melt weight a desired BHN (or peak pressure of the load, which could then derive BHN), then move a slider for each variable, letting it adjust automatically the super hard & copper hard for cheapest alloy to that goal.
GunFun ZS - Anything can be programmed into that spreadsheet. But I suspect that water quench and heat treating provide inconsistent hardening. And then we would need a new spreadsheet to show effects of powder coating. Best to ya, FC
Bars and ingots do not melt off to the 'line' that delineates an even division of weight... they leave a core hanging. Weigh the ingots and dip and melt until you have melted off the desired amount.
Charles Irby - In the future, there will not be any more need of the melt off - RotoMetals is going to nice ingot size "nugget'" for the alloys they sell to casters...we can weigh these easily...Have a great day, FC
Mr. FC thank you sir for all your knowledge you share with us. I'm a beginner in casting, well I'm gathering lead and will soon start. On one of your videos you talk about a BHN of 12-18 for auto loaders. Is that still the case if I plan to powder coat the bullets? Or is that for shooting uncoated lead through our firearm's? If I powder coat do I still need a higher BHN? How about rifle bullets do I need a BHN of 18 or higher? Thanks again
FR - PC does enlarge the envelope of workability when it comes to hardness. However, there are still limits...Shooters report getting full power velocity using PC cast bullets...but the old problem of lead bullets holding the rifling is still in effect. The PC can prevent leading, but if the bullet metal is too soft to hold the rifling, that is what brought on the jacketed bullets over 100 years ago. Have you seen any sub MOA groups shot with PC cast bullets on YT? Does not mean that 2"- 4" groups are not useful though. There was a time when 2" groups with jacketed bullets at 100 yards in a 30/06 was considered fine. Have a great day, FC Steve
I’m new to casting and am trying to take this all in. I’ve melted wheel weights and casted pistol bullets from them but had no way to test the hardness really. I want to start doing rifle bullets but don’t know what to do. Money is an issue. How much can I get away with powder coating cast and quenched wheel weights in a rifle bullet? When I remove the slag from my wheel weight cast am I removing tin and antimony in the process? I just invested in a lead thermometer and a hardness tester and don’t really want to buy metal to add to my supply of lead to make it harder. But I will if I have to 🤔
MLP - Congrats to you on your casting..!! PC has made bullet hardness less of a consideration than before as PC broadens the range of what hardness is required with what pressure/velocity. This allows us to shoot softer bullets at higher velocity for expansion without leading. But there is still a limit as we still need some hardness to hold the rifling. Only testing in your particular gun will tell you. As for your wheel weights, the older ones were very good and could be used for casting light rifle, handgun magnums and down. But the newer WWs have less antimony and are softer. You can gain 1-2 BHN easily by water quenching (some claim more but this is not for sure - your hardness tester will help - I just use my thumbnail). PC has changed that - WW and water quench, PC and you should be OK for up to 2000 FPS or so. I’d go for 1900 fps for safety margin,. (Some claim full power 223 with PC cast, but no one is showing good accuracy at distance). 1900 is perfect for calibers like 30/30 and 45/70 or even the 45/55 Dabo. Have a great day, FC Steve
Thank You! I had seem those but when I was a excel in a zip I had decided against it (always worried about a virus) I downloaded it like you did. I got something like yours but it has a cost estimator also. No big deal but it does work on the hardness. I know what I have used, I made a chart for myself from the info I had gotten from reading the online pdf book of "From Ingot To Target" but I do not know if its accurate. Do you have a chart you use for what hardness to use for what bullet? Thank You again for the video's I always learn something every time I watch one and today was no exception!
When I downloaded my copy of this fine lead alloy calulator it says just under the line where the hardness is "Boolits with more than 6% Antimony will be too brittle" Do you know how much water quency will increase hardness? I am about to cast for some 44 Mag Rifle bullets. I just picked up a New Ruger 77/44 and I have to make some food to feed it.
Barn Dweller - Just got a comment from Donald Denison who did a lot of hunting in past years with friends in California. He tells of how hard 25 caliber rifle bullets at high velocity and short range broke up on hitting bone. But that would definitely not apply to slower big bore bullets at any range. We've always heard that BHNs of 20 and higher might break up on bone. But having cast BHN 22 bullets and hammering them flat and hammering their edges trying to get the bullets to shatter or break up, our hard bullets are tougher than we've been led to believe. To say that bullets with more than 6% antimony are too brittle is hard to defend. 6% antimony is only BHN 11 to 14 depending on whose formula you are referencing. That is just barely up to the alloy we use for +P revolver and auto pistol cast bullets. BHN 18 (10% antimony or so with tin included) is a great alloy for light rifle and magnum pistol and is commonly done. Perhaps the "Boolits with more than 6% Antimony will be too brittle" remark is taken out of context in some manner? At any rate, I would simply ignore that as it flies in the face of what we know - there must be more to that, but I don't need to pursue it...I'd advise you to not let that otherwise taint a very useful spreadsheet. Best to ya, FC
Thank you very much for your reply. Your willingness to share your years of experience is just a wonderful resource for us new guys. Thank You! My knees do not let me hunt but I still enjoy shooting steel here at home and I have just found a Great club only 5 miles from my cabin to shoot all I want for 50$ a year! They have 50 yard, 100 yard, and 185 yard rifle ranges. I spent 3 days over there last week when I was upnorth, I now have a taste of Heaven! NO groups to brag about but I am happy to know I at least could hit the paper at 185 yards! I was shooting a Ruger American 308 Bolt gun with my 165 grain powder coated cast bullets (gas checked) they are going just under 2500 fps and no leading!!!!!! My newest obsession is bolt guns, I am working on a deal for a used Ruger 77/357 so I will have both the 44 and the 357. I already hand load for both cartridges for my handguns so no more dies or anything needed. I will have to use the NOE mould for the 44 mag, it will not feed my Keith 44 Mag bullets I have loaded but that is no suprise. The Keith bullet shoots good if I single load them.
Barn Dweller - Having handy rifles shooting the same caliber as our handguns is a peculiar joy...and the rifles make our 357 and 44s powerful performers, not up to rifle calibers, of course - but still very capable. And that range sounds very fine indeed... Continued good shootin' to ya. FC
Nick J - There's probably 1 % tin in our range scrap and it only adds 1/3rd of a BHN hardness point to our mixes...1% tin is not really that useful to us as casters. Have a great day, FC
Is there one which gives hardness after heat treat? I've read the LASC stuff about 2 years back, but it only goes up into the mid 20s. Not hard enough for ideal rifle data.
GunFun ZS - If we cast bullets with pure SuperHard (and add some tin for castibility), we'd get get BHN 35+. But the bullets would be on way the brittle side. Best to ya, FC
Enjoying learning this stuff from you, man! Clever idea to make the mark on the bar and simply melt if off instead of making a mess with a saw, or something!
oldscout7 - Just make a small mark with your Sharpie though, you don't want a lot of ink going under the surface of your molten lead. And if you use the two channel lock plier trick, the bar is held at precisely the right level for a sure melt off. Gotta lock 'em good though... Good castin' to ya, FC
Nice shout out to Channellock pliers. Made in my hometown. Also good info sir
medicms2001 - They are handy - I have them everywhere... Best to ya, FC
I’m in the commercial and industrial piping industry. Everyone gets issued a pair of “chanies.” They last forever. If people in the industry ever stop stealing them from their employer and giving them to friends and family they would go out of business. Because like I said they last forever.
That is an improvement over the one I used. I know that all of these assume air cooled. I wish someone could come up with a calculator or table to arrive at hardness after heat treat. The way I would want the calculator to work would be to set a total melt weight a desired BHN (or peak pressure of the load, which could then derive BHN), then move a slider for each variable, letting it adjust automatically the super hard & copper hard for cheapest alloy to that goal.
GunFun ZS - Anything can be programmed into that spreadsheet. But I suspect that water quench and heat treating provide inconsistent hardening. And then we would need a new spreadsheet to show effects of powder coating. Best to ya, FC
the calculator was updated a few months ago and works really well....although when entering custom alloys it does not give a bhn calculation ?
Very useful I'm sure, but I just use straight linotype, or maybe Lyman #2, and I always know my BHN... I don't bother with any other alloys.
Bars and ingots do not melt off to the 'line' that delineates an even division of weight... they leave a core hanging. Weigh the ingots and dip and melt until you have melted off the desired amount.
Charles Irby - In the future, there will not be any more need of the melt off - RotoMetals is going to nice ingot size "nugget'" for the alloys they sell to casters...we can weigh these easily...Have a great day, FC
Mr. FC thank you sir for all your knowledge you share with us. I'm a beginner in casting, well I'm gathering lead and will soon start. On one of your videos you talk about a BHN of 12-18 for auto loaders. Is that still the case if I plan to powder coat the bullets? Or is that for shooting uncoated lead through our firearm's? If I powder coat do I still need a higher BHN? How about rifle bullets do I need a BHN of 18 or higher? Thanks again
FR - PC does enlarge the envelope of workability when it comes to hardness. However, there are still limits...Shooters report getting full power velocity using PC cast bullets...but the old problem of lead bullets holding the rifling is still in effect. The PC can prevent leading, but if the bullet metal is too soft to hold the rifling, that is what brought on the jacketed bullets over 100 years ago. Have you seen any sub MOA groups shot with PC cast bullets on YT? Does not mean that 2"- 4" groups are not useful though. There was a time when 2" groups with jacketed bullets at 100 yards in a 30/06 was considered fine. Have a great day, FC Steve
I’m new to casting and am trying to take this all in. I’ve melted wheel weights and casted pistol bullets from them but had no way to test the hardness really. I want to start doing rifle bullets but don’t know what to do. Money is an issue. How much can I get away with powder coating cast and quenched wheel weights in a rifle bullet? When I remove the slag from my wheel weight cast am I removing tin and antimony in the process? I just invested in a lead thermometer and a hardness tester and don’t really want to buy metal to add to my supply of lead to make it harder. But I will if I have to 🤔
MLP - Congrats to you on your casting..!! PC has made bullet hardness less of a consideration than before as PC broadens the range of what hardness is required with what pressure/velocity. This allows us to shoot softer bullets at higher velocity for expansion without leading. But there is still a limit as we still need some hardness to hold the rifling. Only testing in your particular gun will tell you. As for your wheel weights, the older ones were very good and could be used for casting light rifle, handgun magnums and down. But the newer WWs have less antimony and are softer. You can gain 1-2 BHN easily by water quenching (some claim more but this is not for sure - your hardness tester will help - I just use my thumbnail). PC has changed that - WW and water quench, PC and you should be OK for up to 2000 FPS or so. I’d go for 1900 fps for safety margin,. (Some claim full power 223 with PC cast, but no one is showing good accuracy at distance). 1900 is perfect for calibers like 30/30 and 45/70 or even the 45/55 Dabo. Have a great day, FC Steve
I hv one query...what happen when we increase tin value in lead ?
Thank You!
I had seem those but when I was a excel in a zip I had decided against it (always worried about a virus) I downloaded it like you did. I got something like yours but it has a cost estimator also. No big deal but it does work on the hardness. I know what I have used, I made a chart for myself from the info I had gotten from reading the online pdf book of "From Ingot To Target" but I do not know if its accurate. Do you have a chart you use for what hardness to use for what bullet?
Thank You again for the video's I always learn something every time I watch one and today was no exception!
When I downloaded my copy of this fine lead alloy calulator it says just under the line where the hardness is
"Boolits with more than 6% Antimony will be too brittle"
Do you know how much water quency will increase hardness? I am about to cast for some 44 Mag Rifle bullets. I just picked up a New Ruger 77/44 and I have to make some food to feed it.
Barn Dweller - Just got a comment from Donald Denison who did a lot of hunting in past years with friends in California. He tells of how hard 25 caliber rifle bullets at high velocity and short range broke up on hitting bone. But that would definitely not apply to slower big bore bullets at any range. We've always heard that BHNs of 20 and higher might break up on bone. But having cast BHN 22 bullets and hammering them flat and hammering their edges trying to get the bullets to shatter or break up, our hard bullets are tougher than we've been led to believe. To say that bullets with more than 6% antimony are too brittle is hard to defend. 6% antimony is only BHN 11 to 14 depending on whose formula you are referencing. That is just barely up to the alloy we use for +P revolver and auto pistol cast bullets. BHN 18 (10% antimony or so with tin included) is a great alloy for light rifle and magnum pistol and is commonly done. Perhaps the "Boolits with more than 6% Antimony will be too brittle" remark is taken out of context in some manner? At any rate, I would simply ignore that as it flies in the face of what we know - there must be more to that, but I don't need to pursue it...I'd advise you to not let that otherwise taint a very useful spreadsheet. Best to ya, FC
Thank you very much for your reply. Your willingness to share your years of experience is just a wonderful resource for us new guys. Thank You! My knees do not let me hunt but I still enjoy shooting steel here at home and I have just found a Great club only 5 miles from my cabin to shoot all I want for 50$ a year! They have 50 yard, 100 yard, and 185 yard rifle ranges. I spent 3 days over there last week when I was upnorth, I now have a taste of Heaven! NO groups to brag about but I am happy to know I at least could hit the paper at 185 yards! I was shooting a Ruger American 308 Bolt gun with my 165 grain powder coated cast bullets (gas checked) they are going just under 2500 fps and no leading!!!!!!
My newest obsession is bolt guns, I am working on a deal for a used Ruger 77/357 so I will have both the 44 and the 357. I already hand load for both cartridges for my handguns so no more dies or anything needed. I will have to use the NOE mould for the 44 mag, it will not feed my Keith 44 Mag bullets I have loaded but that is no suprise. The Keith bullet shoots good if I single load them.
Barn Dweller - Having handy rifles shooting the same caliber as our handguns is a peculiar joy...and the rifles make our 357 and 44s powerful performers, not up to rifle calibers, of course - but still very capable. And that range sounds very fine indeed... Continued good shootin' to ya. FC
Hey FC, I can see the percentages you need to add, but how do you calculate what 1% of tin is ?
Nick J - There's probably 1 % tin in our range scrap and it only adds 1/3rd of a BHN hardness point to our mixes...1% tin is not really that useful to us as casters. Have a great day, FC
Good day to you my name is Uynes Gysman of South Africa can you email me that spead sheet how to mix the the lead alloys
This one is an update version (2012): castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=45784&d=1341560870. It has a little more to it.
Yup that is the one I use.
Psyko Klown - Updated is good..!! Have a great day, FC
Is there one which gives hardness after heat treat? I've read the LASC stuff about 2 years back, but it only goes up into the mid 20s. Not hard enough for ideal rifle data.
GunFun ZS - If we cast bullets with pure SuperHard (and add some tin for castibility), we'd get get BHN 35+. But the bullets would be on way the brittle side. Best to ya, FC
🏌. What BHN is a fingernail? ⛳.. .