I'm not convinced at all. Not by a long shot. The real situation post-Brexit is whether Scotland is better off out of the EU and a member of the UK or whether out of the UK and in the EU. England might well be Scotland's biggest customer, but the UK is a far smaller economy than the world's largest trading block which, as a member of, Scotland's economy would do far better without trade barriers with the continent.
There would be a lot less support for Scottish independence if any of these pie in the sky reforms he puts forward had happened. As he mentioned himself, ministers in London will nod and do nothing. Why or how does he expect this to magically change now?
1 Scotland democratic choices has nothing to do with Carwyn Jones unless he lives and votes there. 2 Since he applied for an Irish passport post Brexit, does Carwyn Jones think Irish independence is mistake? Could Carwyn Jones tell us which countries which have voted for independence from Westminster should, in his opinion, return to the mother ship? 3 Why is every neighbouring small indy nation (Ireland, Iceland, Norway, Denmark) wealthier than non-indy Scotland & Wales in Uk? 4 Wales has 34% child poverty after 26 years of Labour. They are living in a parallel universe.
Irish independence and Scottish independence have nothing in common, there’s good reason why the south of Ireland left the UK centuries of oppression, sectarianism, fanatical loyalist paramilitaries, famine, 2nd class citizenship & anti catholic legislation, Scotland has had none of that & in many cases it’s also been Scottish prime ministers of the UK and British governments lead by Scotsman that have been doing the oppression in Ireland, as an Englishman of Irish ancestry & Anglo Irish ancestry, I’m fine with the 26 county state being seprate from the Uk because the uk did not treat Ireland well, however Scottish independence has no real history to it or any Legitmacy, the SNP’s type of politics is just to scapegoat and find people to blame, other than passing the buck the snp has no policy.
It's nothing new though. We've heard all this for ten years, and has little chance of ever happening. England would never accept a federal uk. Indy nations working together as equals that's the only way forward.
The whole point in a debate is to give multiple sides to any argument and allow critical thinking. Not to try and give a balanced view. I think the gentleman just gave a sensible view and a different argument.
staggering ignorance of what the devolved parliament is allowed to do; denial that control from Westminster penalises Scots. Elements of energy pricing ARE controlled by Westminster and Scots are charged more than those in SE England.
People who vote for any particular party do so for many reasons, therefore voting for a party that supports independence or any other single policy is not an indicator of whether those who voted for said party support independence or any different single policy. The only way to determine the public's views on any single issue is by a referendum. Scotland decided in 2014 in what Salmond said would be a 'once in a generation' event.
There is a new generation of voters and the last vote was influenced by false promises from Westminster that Scotland would not be taken out of Europe and would get a better deal.
@@fijay2400 Seven years is not a 'Generation' bud. All the recent polls show a decline in Scottish people wanting to break from the UK. No such promises as you describe were ever made to Scotland. That's another myth. What was made clear by both the UK's government and the EU was that voting to leave the UK would mean Scotland also left the EU. The reason for this is that Scotland was not a member of the EU singularly. Its membership was as part of the United Kingdom. You're welcome. They're not stupid those Scots, amigo.
@@Kitajima2 A) How long would that timeframe be? B) Salmon's own admission is that 58% of the entire UK population now wants to rejoin, so what is the differentiating factor to the rest of the nations and C) What do you do in terms of currency if Scotland were to leave and withdraw? That doesn't even address the points of a land border and the complexities argued within this proposition.
😂😂😂 elections are the PRINCIPLE DEFINITION OF DEMOCRACY... to negate their intent because YOU DONT LIKE the result is hardly democracy. You britnats clearly have no intentions of understanding democracy and election process..... 🙄 and carwyn argued ALL scottish problems from a sphere of biased blinded moronic ignorance.... NONE of the problems portrayed by this speaker,.... had a SETTLENT PRE NEGOTIATED WITH SCOT/UK because, get this, THE UK WONT PRE NEGOTIATE settlement... wonder why none of scotlands questions have been resolved 🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦 UK WONT NEGOTIATE.... THUS, we need to leave FIRST to FORCE ENGLAND TO THE TABLE FFS🤦🤦🤦🤦 silly ignorant useless britnats and their useless reforming dreams of reforming this fascist state.... WE CALL THAT DELUSIONS IN SCOTLAND 😂😂😂😂
Blow me, here's a ..... who argues that Scots, Welsh an northern Irish subsisdised by English taxpayers are victims, "....there's a lot wrong with the British way because.... it has a capricious and inconsistent way of moving money around the UK, the treasury makes up its own rules as it goes along...."
Disconnect from English politics ( esp., Tories) and Westminster and govern ourselves. Shun all negative exclamations and hold fast to our resolve to attain Independence. Separation from the English government is a necessity!
@@maldaley235 oh I think you don't. If so, why is the snp failing miserably on public services then? Why isn't the majority interested in another referendum then?
@@CLARKE176 How long have you lived in Scotland? I'm over 50 now and I remember growing up in the 70s, 80s and 90s, services have always been poor. Are you aware of how bad travel services were in those decades? Social services? I can tell you from experience how bad they were, I grew up and worked in the poorest areas of Glasgow. I have several broken bones from accidents from when I was a young man when the NHS deemed my injuries were not serious enough for the expense. Nowadays the NHS has no staff because of the action of retarded Unionists that thought protecting their borders was paramount over staffing the NHS.
@@maldaley235 the NHS is much worse now mate under the snp and incase you haven't realised this isn't 1970s, 80s or 90s anymore. Scotland had amongst the highest education in Europe, now its slumped thanks to the snp. Even though Labourer wasn't perfect, they knew how to run Scotland better than Snp did. Also it has the highest deaths of substance and alcohol abuse, along with suicides in Europe. Not to mention the millions they squandered on the ferries. Unlike Labour, they're a one aim party and all others such as economy, jobs, housing etc don't matter.
When we get our independence Bob what will you do? what value will you bring us? what skills do you have? we need good people with real business heads on their shoulders.
like all politicians they are good at talking, that is their job of being a wordsmith but has he really got a business head on his shoulders These people are all one trick ponies to be honest.
Scotland doesn't want to be governed by the English population. 50% every day. Way more than any electrically mandated WM party under the FPTP system. Ireland massively successful, NI allowed the question every 7 years, Scotland ...no not allowed to ask it at all.
But level of Scots by decent that live in England and Wales is greater then in Scotland. Canada is a good example. Most peope put English or Welsh when they fill in a census though there names such as Murry, Brown, Mckay, Johnston as an example suggest herritage. Many loose there secnd clans name through marrage. So its importand people understand the English or Wales ect my be Scottish after all.
Gordon Brown said he would reform the UK . Anyone remember The Vow ? I don’t trust any one of these unionist politicians to look after the needs of Scotland and it’s people , so this guys arguments hold no water for me . Westminster has had its chance to make the Union work for Scotland
Britain must make all Sports teams British = Football/Rugby, BOO HOO that - Carwyn the plaid cymru nat in Labour clothing - doesn't feel Britishness, many in Cymru do and it is growing.
@Mike Treneere-Kernow With the resignation of Nicola Sturgont, the Jocks no longer want independence but Scotland can never become independent as we will never allow it as England gives the orders and Scotland must comply or else, if Scotland became independent, Scottish independence means No NHS, No Free University Tuition, No Unemployment welfare benefits etc, Scotland is One if not, the poorest country in Europe plus Scotland is not really a country as it belongs to England, it's time for Scotland and the Jocks to grow up as they are not all that intelligent up there, Scottish independence - Don't make me Laugh 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
He spouted nonsense Scotland will be imdependant in the future no matter what he says or thinks and that goes for e ery body else that it should not happen and as for you tube there is a lot of vlogs and videos that have inappropriate language and videos but you stoped my comments becouse of what I replied to videos in the past that to me is double standards whe I comment in the future I will not change my was becouse thers somthing called free speech thank you you tube😊😊😊
I'm not convinced at all. Not by a long shot.
The real situation post-Brexit is whether Scotland is better off out of the EU and a member of the UK or whether out of the UK and in the EU. England might well be Scotland's biggest customer, but the UK is a far smaller economy than the world's largest trading block which, as a member of, Scotland's economy would do far better without trade barriers with the continent.
There would be a lot less support for Scottish independence if any of these pie in the sky reforms he puts forward had happened. As he mentioned himself, ministers in London will nod and do nothing. Why or how does he expect this to magically change now?
1 Scotland democratic choices has nothing to do with Carwyn Jones unless he lives and votes there.
2 Since he applied for an Irish passport post Brexit, does Carwyn Jones think Irish independence is mistake? Could Carwyn Jones tell us which countries which have voted for independence from Westminster should, in his opinion, return to the mother ship?
3 Why is every neighbouring small indy nation (Ireland, Iceland, Norway, Denmark) wealthier than non-indy Scotland & Wales in Uk?
4 Wales has 34% child poverty after 26 years of Labour. They are living in a parallel universe.
Irish independence and Scottish independence have nothing in common, there’s good reason why the south of Ireland left the UK centuries of oppression, sectarianism, fanatical loyalist paramilitaries, famine, 2nd class citizenship & anti catholic legislation, Scotland has had none of that & in many cases it’s also been Scottish prime ministers of the UK and British governments lead by Scotsman that have been doing the oppression in Ireland, as an Englishman of Irish ancestry & Anglo Irish ancestry, I’m fine with the 26 county state being seprate from the Uk because the uk did not treat Ireland well, however Scottish independence has no real history to it or any Legitmacy, the SNP’s type of politics is just to scapegoat and find people to blame, other than passing the buck the snp has no policy.
How did they vote?
Fair play Carwyn Jones was fairly convincing and dare I say his suggestion position is pretty sober and balanced.
It's nothing new though. We've heard all this for ten years, and has little chance of ever happening. England would never accept a federal uk. Indy nations working together as equals that's the only way forward.
I didn’t know he could stand, I thought he spent his life on his knees!
Very eloquent, clear and engaging!
Nice balanced perspective which has been hard to come across from both sides.
??? Did you have your sound on when you watched this?
The whole point in a debate is to give multiple sides to any argument and allow critical thinking. Not to try and give a balanced view. I think the gentleman just gave a sensible view and a different argument.
Sure did!
fair enough!
LIFE IS JUST TO LOVE AND TO BE LOVED 💖 LOVE ALONE CAN CONQUER THE WORLD 🌍
staggering ignorance of what the devolved parliament is allowed to do; denial that control from Westminster penalises Scots. Elements of energy pricing ARE controlled by Westminster and Scots are charged more than those in SE England.
Nothing to do with the other constituents of the union! Imagine if the EU had campaigned in England during brexit.
##IndependenceIsNormal 🏴
Lets face it the free movement of people on the island has seen people familes move all over the island. The gene pool has also intergrated
People who vote for any particular party do so for many reasons, therefore voting for a party that supports independence or any other single policy is not an indicator of whether those who voted for said party support independence or any different single policy.
The only way to determine the public's views on any single issue is by a referendum.
Scotland decided in 2014 in what Salmond said would be a 'once in a generation' event.
There is a new generation of voters and the last vote was influenced by false promises from Westminster that Scotland would not be taken out of Europe and would get a better deal.
@@fijay2400 Seven years is not a 'Generation' bud.
All the recent polls show a decline in Scottish people wanting to break from the UK.
No such promises as you describe were ever made to Scotland. That's another myth.
What was made clear by both the UK's government and the EU was that voting to leave the UK would mean Scotland also left the EU.
The reason for this is that Scotland was not a member of the EU singularly. Its membership was as part of the United Kingdom.
You're welcome.
They're not stupid those Scots, amigo.
@@jacobcohen9205Exactly. Now Scots are trying to split with UK and join EU. You forgot to mention that part
@@Kitajima2 A) How long would that timeframe be? B) Salmon's own admission is that 58% of the entire UK population now wants to rejoin, so what is the differentiating factor to the rest of the nations and C) What do you do in terms of currency if Scotland were to leave and withdraw? That doesn't even address the points of a land border and the complexities argued within this proposition.
😂😂😂 elections are the PRINCIPLE DEFINITION OF DEMOCRACY... to negate their intent because YOU DONT LIKE the result is hardly democracy. You britnats clearly have no intentions of understanding democracy and election process..... 🙄 and carwyn argued ALL scottish problems from a sphere of biased blinded moronic ignorance.... NONE of the problems portrayed by this speaker,.... had a SETTLENT PRE NEGOTIATED WITH SCOT/UK because, get this, THE UK WONT PRE NEGOTIATE settlement... wonder why none of scotlands questions have been resolved 🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦 UK WONT NEGOTIATE.... THUS, we need to leave FIRST to FORCE ENGLAND TO THE TABLE FFS🤦🤦🤦🤦 silly ignorant useless britnats and their useless reforming dreams of reforming this fascist state.... WE CALL THAT DELUSIONS IN SCOTLAND 😂😂😂😂
Blow me, here's a ..... who argues that Scots, Welsh an northern Irish subsisdised by English taxpayers are victims, "....there's a lot wrong with the British way because.... it has a capricious and inconsistent way of moving money around the UK, the treasury makes up its own rules as it goes along...."
Disconnect from English politics ( esp., Tories) and Westminster and govern ourselves. Shun all negative exclamations and hold fast to our resolve to attain Independence.
Separation from the English government is a necessity!
Party at his house. This time don't take there lawnmower
this fellow doesn't understand energy prices
Neither do nationalists.
@@CLARKE176 Oh, I think we do.
@@maldaley235 oh I think you don't. If so, why is the snp failing miserably on public services then? Why isn't the majority interested in another referendum then?
@@CLARKE176 How long have you lived in Scotland? I'm over 50 now and I remember growing up in the 70s, 80s and 90s, services have always been poor. Are you aware of how bad travel services were in those decades? Social services? I can tell you from experience how bad they were, I grew up and worked in the poorest areas of Glasgow. I have several broken bones from accidents from when I was a young man when the NHS deemed my injuries were not serious enough for the expense. Nowadays the NHS has no staff because of the action of retarded Unionists that thought protecting their borders was paramount over staffing the NHS.
@@maldaley235 the NHS is much worse now mate under the snp and incase you haven't realised this isn't 1970s, 80s or 90s anymore. Scotland had amongst the highest education in Europe, now its slumped thanks to the snp. Even though Labourer wasn't perfect, they knew how to run Scotland better than Snp did. Also it has the highest deaths of substance and alcohol abuse, along with suicides in Europe. Not to mention the millions they squandered on the ferries. Unlike Labour, they're a one aim party and all others such as economy, jobs, housing etc don't matter.
Rude how opposition leaped to interrupt without even asking or the speaker giving way. Speaker was generous to stop and let them have their say.
Who’s more invested in the subject ?
have a look at the other parts of the debate!
Scottish Independence now!!!
When we get our independence Bob what will you do? what value will you bring us? what skills do you have? we need good people with real business heads on their shoulders.
The people of Scotland are the only people who should choose in a referendum.
like all politicians they are good at talking, that is their job of being a wordsmith but has he really got a business head on his shoulders These people are all one trick ponies to be honest.
Scotland doesn't want to be governed by the English population. 50% every day. Way more than any electrically mandated WM party under the FPTP system. Ireland massively successful, NI allowed the question every 7 years, Scotland ...no not allowed to ask it at all.
But level of Scots by decent that live in England and Wales is greater then in Scotland. Canada is a good example. Most peope put English or Welsh when they fill in a census though there names such as Murry, Brown, Mckay, Johnston as an example suggest herritage. Many loose there secnd clans name through marrage. So its importand people understand the English or Wales ect my be Scottish after all.
Gordon Brown said he would reform the UK . Anyone remember The Vow ? I don’t trust any one of these unionist politicians to look after the needs of Scotland and it’s people , so this guys arguments hold no water for me . Westminster has had its chance to make the Union work for Scotland
Britain must make all Sports teams British = Football/Rugby, BOO HOO that - Carwyn the plaid cymru nat in Labour clothing - doesn't feel Britishness, many in Cymru do and it is growing.
1st Viewer, 1st Commentor.. Clicked on the video 9 seconds after it was uploaded..
somebody give him a medal
@@ediotism 😂😂😂🙏🙏
@Mike Treneere-Kernow Got you.. 😂😂😂🙏🙏
@Mike Treneere-Kernow With the resignation of Nicola Sturgont, the Jocks no longer want independence but Scotland can never become independent as we will never allow it as England gives the orders and Scotland must comply or else, if Scotland became independent, Scottish independence means No NHS, No Free University Tuition, No Unemployment welfare benefits etc, Scotland is One if not, the poorest country in Europe plus Scotland is not really a country as it belongs to England, it's time for Scotland and the Jocks to grow up as they are not all that intelligent up there, Scottish independence - Don't make me Laugh 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
He spouted nonsense Scotland will be imdependant in the future no matter what he says or thinks and that goes for e ery body else that it should not happen and as for you tube there is a lot of vlogs and videos that have inappropriate language and videos but you stoped my comments becouse of what I replied to videos in the past that to me is double standards whe I comment in the future I will not change my was becouse thers somthing called free speech thank you you tube😊😊😊
SHOULD DO COULD DO HOW ABOUT WILL DO
Better still how about DID
@OxfordUnion
Please pin comment the result of the vote?
Poor arguments from Jones.
What flag will we use? 🤣🤣🤣