Dosent have much to do with the video but I really appreciate that Ian leaves out politics in his videos. So many gun youtubers go on and on about the NRA and evil liberals, and Ian just sticks to the guns and that's really refreshing I find. So thanks Ian for that
Just wanted to chime in and say that your ability to keep your channel scrupulously apolitical is why I've been able to keep watching it for over a year.
It's attacking self avowed National Socialists to call them "Nazis"? I just...don't see the logic? Is it derogatory to call a Light Emitting Diode an LED?
And honestly I remember a time when denouncing Nazis was just considered basic human decency, not a political stance of any sort... I mean, we sort of fought a war over it and all...
The Browning Recoiless shotgun was a fully mechanical somewhat 'recoiless' shotgun. A single shot 12 gauge that used a fully mechanical recoil mitigating assembly. Came out in the mid 1990's and didn't see many sales due to an extremely high price and a general fragile build. I believe the gas/magazine tube shotgun you're referring to was a Trap model Remington 870 that you briefly touched on in one video.
I never realized you did so much work curating comments. I love your work and am in awe of the effort you put in to maintain a friendly and informative channel for your viewers. Thank you very much, Ian.
For the question at about 17:30, the best historical cow gun would probably be a makrov. It's small compact and has the military feel to it. Other possibilities are either going to be expensive, scarce, or large.
Regarding the Ironcross: The Ironcross is just a German military honor, as well a symbol of our military. I really don’t like how many people take a Nazi symbol and replace it with a German symbol and I am really glad that you don’t use the Ironcross. Thank you
Insanely informative, unbiased, and entertaining as always, Ian! Keep doing what you're doing, I feel you've got a magic formula here and your channel's got nowhere to go but up. (Despite UA-cam's best efforts...)
@Forgotten Weapons: If you're looking for the ZG 1229 Vampir, there's one in the "Wehrtechnische Sammlung Koblenz". You can contact them here: tinyurl.com/y8x53y3r (Second section, first link.) If you should have any questions or need support doing so, I'd be happy to help.
The guy that asked about replacement stocks for milsurps. The best advice I can give to all. If you have a milsurp, that either you wish to restore or repair. The best way that I've found is one of two ways. 1) buy a gss (gunsmith special), AKA a second gun of the same type that is currently inoperable, but can be harvested for the parts you need. 2) drill purpose, buy a drill purpose rifle, and harvest the parts needed. Usually doing those two things, will offer a better return on investment, and easier way to fix up a good rifle.
Another thing in the AT grenade's favor that would make it more popular with squads is that it is way harder to tell what is going on and stop it if the whole unit is riflemen than if there are three guys crowded around a tube.
3:44 Ordinance wanted to use the same round in machine guns and combat rifles to make their jobs simpler. 5.56 is not a great round to take out traditional middle eastern buildings, strong stone walls, or moderately tough vehicles nor is it a great round for long distances.
FYI, the "Bf 109" used by Israël were Avia S-199s, which were built in Czekoslovakia with original German Messershmitt 109G parts and airframes. However Avia didn't have access to any of the original Daimler engines used in the Bf-109s over the years so they put Jumo engines from bombers under the hood, which made them pretty terrible and unstable. They ended up being replaced by Spitfire pretty fast.
Ian, man if you read this... Man I sometimes leave my app going for hours... Love your show man... Awesome 👍 the history is just incredible. The craftsmanship. The story behind the item. I personally don't own weapons . They are expensive and the ammo is even worse. But this channel is on the top of my list. Man keep it up,
Modern rocket ball ammo has been tried! In the late 70s, Fiocchi developed the 9mm AUPO round, which had an elongated jacket that held propellant. It offered no advantages over cased ammo and was dropped pretty quickly.
The "best historical pistol for CCW" type could be several, depending on several factors. The Colt 1903 pocket hammerless is the best example I can think of. A nice Weimar era Walther PPK has interesting history. For newer, but still forgotten in the west; the Soviet PSM.
@10:00 Yes, it was a Browning you describe and it was called "Recoilless Trap". It was only made in 12 gauge and only for two years. Thanks to the gas system and the rather hefty weight recoil was virtually nonexistent. Trap guns are much more likely to be embellished- decorative engraving, fancy 'exhibition grade' wood, gold inlaid, etc- than most guns. I think that was a big reason it only lasted for two years. It was just an exceptionally ugly gun.
One advantage of rifle grenades over rockets is the lack of backblast. Bazookas could not be used inside small building rooms and were iffy when used from foxholes and trenches because if the backblast is confined it bounces back and roasts the user and any nearby friends. Rifle grenades could be fired from pretty much anywhere.
Bannerman Castle's visible on trains north of New York City. Always a nice little treat to see something that *looks* like medieval ruins while actually being scarcely a century old.
@1:12:10 In the case of a rocket ball, A heavy weight at the front and a light weight at the back is the stable configuration. I can tell you from my experience with designing rockets, you WANT to centre of mass ahead of the centre of drag.
I agree although the term you want is center of mass ahead of the center of pressure (as in, aerodynamic drag pressure when the bullet is turned slightly sideways). COM and COG are the same thing so they cannot be at different locations. There is also the opportunity to spin the bullet still, which eliminates the need for aerodynamic stability (and is superior for something like a bullet with a short, high speed flight duration). I'm afraid that Ian is wrong about the stability issue.
frank damsy In short, it makes the most logistical sense. In some cases, they will even reuse parts of their infantry rifles for their belt fed LMGs, like the PKM which uses a modified AK bolt.
frank damsy Really its impressive how many ways you can reconfigure a weapon. Buts theres always gonna be limits to that inherent to the base design. For instance, AR-15's dont make the best LMG's. Everything is so compact and tightly fitted. Any warping caused by heat will have more of an effect in an AR-15 based LMG than an AK or G3.
Fox Phelps Its generally considered sub par for LMG's probably due to comparatively low ability to penetrate hard cover. But i can't think of other reasons for this idea of it being a poor LMG round. It would seem to make a great round for belt fed LMGs which are mainly suppression tools. You can fit a lot more 5.56 into a container than say, 7.62x39 or even 5.45x39. Standard box for the M249 is 200 rounds. Low recoil too, especially when in a heavy belt fed like the M249. Theoretically speaking, it seems to be a dream for suppressive fire.
+Forgotten Weapons Wrt a "Modern Rocket Ball" ammunition, there actually exists something very similar. The 9×25 mm AUPO for the Benelli CB M2 SMG. It works much like a rocket ball, comprised of a jacketed bullet with the jacket extended out to provide a hollow for the propellant and plugged by a flammable seal. The cartridge was fired by striking a band that was around the middle of the cartridge (think rimfire with a pinfire striking orientation), and depending on your source, the case section would break off but still follow the bullet out the barrel.
The image of Bannerman's Arsenal in the thumbnail brought me here. I grew up near the ruins of this old castle on Pollepel Island in the Hudson River and used to hear all sorts stories about it. It's worth taking a ride on the Metro North commuter trains out of Grand Central Terminal to Poughkeepsie, New York where they turn around and go back to the city, just to see the sights along the river - of which Bannerman's is just one.
RE: CCW handguns with historical significance - Good answer, Ian. If you broaden the context of the question a bit, I'd nominate the Browning HP developed in 1935.
I have a very special gun as my EDC myself and it's not just a C&R but an antique gun!That is a conehammer Mauser C-96 made in 1897!Very historical yet very easy to find ammo for and in fact a damn great self defense tool!To be honest I really won't say that it has any major disadvantages against more modern guns so I already carry it for a while now.. As of today I had already smoked a few whitetail deer with my conehammer C-96 this season 😎
In regards to the US not adopting the 1917 Enfield after WW1 and subsequent criticism, it was probably a good thing and in hindsight. It helped adopt the M1 Garand, which was arguably the most advanced main rifle in WW2.
Love the thumbnail image as I live within eye shot of Bannermans Island! In fact me and a few friends used to canoe out to the island play around n explore back in the 1980’s🤙🤙🤙🤘🤘🤘🤘
Late to the party but I have to comment on the Vampir (ZG1229) scope. The WTS museum in Koblenz has one on display. In regards to Ian's comment about one being in the US, I had the pleasure of meeting the former curator of the Aberdeen Ordnance Museum Bill Atwater in 2005 and asked him about the ZG1229 and he said he knew of one owner in the US and believed him to be in Washington (whether he meant the state or DC I didn't ask).
41 Action Express is an obsolete round that could still have a place. 40 SW pushed it out of the market, but it 41 AE was a better middle ground between 9mm and 45acp. Also if someone wants to look at differences in revolvers then look into Mateba's designs. He was quite willing to try new things.
Great video! Only one thing about the rocketball- having a front-heavy projectile is GOOD for stability- it is how most types of shotgun slugs intended for smoothbores are stabilised.
Regarding rocket ball aerodynamics (1:12:00 ish): big mass at the front, big surface at the back is actually a very stable configuration for forward flight. Look at darts - either the kind used for playing the game of darts, or the kind used in NERF toys - both have the weight towards the front and both fly straight.
Regarding what you said around 57 minutes in: The M16 burst system can fairly easily accommodate 1 (although I don't know why you'd want to), 2, 3, and 6 round bursts (the cam wheel has a total of 6 positions) just by changing the burst cam: The burst cam has six total positions, and the depth of those cuts determines whether or not the burst disconnector (which has two hooks, one of which rides on the burst cam) moves far enough forward to catch the hammer. As a result, all you'd need to do to get the above bursts is to swap the burst cam for one with the right configuration of equally-spaced deep notches (6, 3, 2, and 1 deep notches respectively to get the burst lengths referenced above). It's definitely not the sort of thing that a soldier should do in the field, but it's absolutely something that an armorer could do at a depot. I've never seen a 6-round burst cam, but I've definitely seen a picture of a 2-round burst cam shared on the NFA discussion board over at Subguns.
German here. That video should actually be reasonably easy to restore in germany. You are pretty much the definition of the exception here. Similiar content from germany (especially Dr. Ludwig can explain alot) has been reinstated many times before
RE: CCW old guns. I have used both a 1911 A1 GI and a PPK/S as ccw because they are what I had. It was a bigger pain than having a modern gun and the moisture of my body caused minor corrosion on both guns, something I would not care about on a working gun but something that would suck to see on a collectors gun.
19:39 - what about 7.62x45 from 1950's Czech republic? The only reason they dropped it was because x39 standardization was cheaper. It would be a more effective intermediate .30 caliber than 300blk or 7.62x39 while still having a shorter action and less recoil than 7.62x51 NATO.
Would it be more effective though? It might have problems fitting in any kind of magazine because it is 2mm longer than 5.56 and 5.45 and 4mm longer than 7.62x39 so it would probably only be viable for a completely new weapon. In terms of performance it is also not really a significant change over 7.62x39. It's definately not a bad caliber but what does it offer that is worth the hassle of changing to it?
To hell with the thumbnail! Your fans watch your show for the history you teach and the fascinating firearms. I am one of those fans. Keep up the great work!
I'd think a CZ-82 would make for a respectable C&R CCW pistol. Granted it has some draw backs such as weight being an all steel design. The lack of a decocker is a legitimate safety concern, and 9mm makarov isn't the most potent option and it lacks ammo options. But it is a solid and reliable DA/SA compact pistol with ambi safety and mag release that has 12+1 rounds and is a C&R pistol.
the russian AEK rifles and the SR1 and ak107 are also using a recoil reducing system, it works by having a weight that moves forward as the bolt moves backward. pretty good working and also pretty simple compared to things like an94
Thanks for the great QA Ian, IMO it's the best one yet. I really like the ones like this that include a good bit of your ideas/views as well as the interesting and awesome military and firearm info we all are drawn here for originally. Keep up the good work!
I’m working on a design for a weapon that has never existed (the ATF agent i called told me to call it a large gauge pistol with a 36 inch handle... but they’d never heard of such a thing) anyways i was really impressed with the locking-block system of the Nambu-15. And i was wondering since I cannot find a video on youtube that really covers the hows, whys and working of a locking-block system could you please make one? As for everyone else if you could explain it to me i’m all ears
It is funny all the firearms I conceal carry regularly and 50+ years old, even my HD gun is Win. M12 riot gun from WWII. The three gun I routinely carry are a S&W M19-2 4", a Bulgarian Makarov in 9x18mm, and a Pieper Model 1908 in 32 acp. I would love to add a Hi-Power to the collection as well. People seem to forget many designs that are old but oft recommended, some example being, 1911 style pistols, S&W revolvers of all frame sizes and barrel lengths, Ruger revolvers, Colt revolvers, and Makarov pistols to name a few. I personally also like to acquire and would carry a Colt M1908 in 380 acp, and some small 32 acp pocket pistols of various makes in addition to some smaller revolvers than my 4" Smith and Wesson.
Anytime you can use both your own ammo and that of your opponent you eliminate the major problem of supply and resupply under combat conditions..especially in a country like Finland where supply has a very long (and precarious) supply line as a major impediment...
One of the nice things to help get around some of the more nonsensical tendencies in the UK is collecting old rifles and such. For some reason, despite it not being in law anywhere, Police Forces are very hesitant about letting you have multiple rifles, blackpowder/long barreled pistols in the same caliber, to the extent that it can be difficult to argue with your Firearms Officer about how a .44 Magnum LBR is not the same as a .44 muzzleloader (if you have a bad one, or one that isn't familar with firearms, which is more likely than you think...). The exceptions are shotguns and .22lr rifles, but again, all it takes is one firearms officer with a chip on their shoulder and you can have difficulties. Being an obvious collector and having the right attitude can go a long way to helping with this, especially in the case of Lee Enfields and such. Other good areas to focus your collection, if you want to shoot, are antique percussion revolvers; the Adams/Webleys/etc can all be owned without a certificate for display, and can be put onto your FAC if you want to shoot them. Getting them off the certificate so they can be sold freely and displayed (not stored inside of a gunsafe) is a bit of a legal faf-around where basically you take the gun to a registered firearms dealer and have it destroyed on paper (legally the gun is destroyed, while remaining intact and allowing you to display or sell it without a certificate); while you then have to get a like for like new slot on your ticket to get another one in your collection on your certificate. If you're not concerned about this and just want to shoot them, it's a good way to go, and of course, it allows you to buy/sell them before you have them on your firearms certificate. The same goes for any of the antique, obsolete cartridge rifles, such as Schmidt-Rubins, Marinti-Henrys, etc. If you're not particularly concerned with shooting your firearms, then pocket pistols of the late Victorian/Early 20th century can be a fun area to explore, with the obsolete rimfire rounds, .320 British etc. Having a few of these are great for display, mechanical interest, etc and can also help you justify your requests for a collection reason to have a firearm on your FAC AND can also help you in acquiring a 7.1 or 7.3 slot for a collector interest, allowing you to own a modern cartridge loading handgun or revolver that would otherwise be Section 5.
Interesting thing about the Pattern 14 Enfield and the No.4 Enfield rifles is just how long they saw service. The No.4 was in use until 2016 with the Canadian Rangers, and the 14 is still in use with the Danish Sirius Dogsled Patrol in Greenland
The Israeli military adopted 8mm for a plethora of reasons. One reason that comes to mind(similar to Finland) is the fact that many of Israeli’s not so happy neighbors used 8mm extensively(especially former ottoman territories).It was also extremely cheap and combat tested and approved. The m1 carbine is also STILL very popular. Many of these came in as military aid(free) so these are STILL quite common.
RE the Pedersen cartridge, Mike Beliveau (aka Duelist1954) has reloaded .32 French long for his M1935A pistol, he made a video or two on the subject. the main problem is the brass, it can be made out of .32s&w brass, but requires machining on a lathe to remove the rim and cut an extractor groove into the casehead. bullets are available, hornady makes an XTP 90gr in .309 diameter.
About the Finnish cartridge question... There were tests about 5.56 vs 7.62 in the forested area, where 5.56 would wander off of a little hit of foliage, where as 7.62 would withstand those with a good trajectory.
As far as CCW hand guns go the Markov's are very viable handguns the type 64 or standard Markov are reliable small enough to be easy carry for the most part most military guns are great for service arms but to large and heavy to make CCW a viable option
I've never found a Bergmann Stripper Clip, but the ones for my C96 Mauser seem to work okay in my 1910/21. Not ideal, but they fit and feed fairly reliably. Hope this helps.
I was really surprised you talked about the Stock Lock and similar shotgun recoil system. The 870 competition used a gas system resembling the one on an 1100
A frequently overlooked advantage of rifle grenades vs bazookas is rifle grenades have no backblast. Bazookas cannot be used from buildings and bunkers without the rocket backblast bouncing around and roasting the user, even from an entrenchment the user has to rise to a fairly elevated position to keep the backblast out of the trench. This basically means using a bazooka requires the user to dangerously expose himself to enemy fire and observation. Rifle grenades can be used from cover anywhere you can use a rifle.
I think sticking with a full-power cartridge was right based on World War I experience, where soldiers were shooting at each other at relatively long ranges between trenches. And I think it was right based on the longer ranges in many theaters of World War II. What really allowed intermediate cartridges to shine, though, was the accuracy of the AR platform and the inaccuracy of earlier weapons. The M1 Garand was a 2-4 MOA weapon; acceptable for its day, but it effectively neutered the .30-06 cartridge to around 400 yards effective range. Meanwhile, an AR with 5.56 is usable out to around 600 yards. A full-power cartridge with the right weapon will certainly have a more versatile engagement envelope, but they simply got leapfrogged.
A slight mistake about modern "Rocket Balls". The heavy nose - light tail is "Inherently Stable", not unstable. Such a missile does not require rifling at all, or fins either. See "Fliegerfaust" ammunition. It may have been spun, but it was done so as to prevent uneven burning of the propellent from making it veer off course. Projectiles that long in relation to their diameter can not be spin stabilized! The upper limit of spin stabilized projectile L/D Ratio is less than seven, but most rifles use a projectile 4-5/1 L/D Ratio because of the extremely rapid rate of twist required for longer bullets. Such rifles often have 6-6.5"/1 full turn of the rifling twist, while most normal rifles have 1 Turn in 9-14" if they are expected to last a long time. The 1 in 7" twist rate of some M-16s and M-4 Carbines required by the longer bullets required to give a sufficient SD for longer range, resulted a lack of wounding power by reducing the tumbling after impact.
Check out the second image on this page: souvenezvous44.blogspot.com/2013/03/iwa-2013-nuremberg.html It looks like a Gerat 1221 was exhibited in someone's booth at IWA 2013?
I have a Browning recoilless trap gun that is a long recoil action turned backwards so the barrel reciprocates forward and then back and the pretty stiff recoil spring absorbs "up to 75% of felt recoil" and I can confirm it works. It's also interesting that it's a self cocking, manually operated bolt action as well
Just blur the flag. Your content is of great historical value, especially for us Germans. I live in Oberndorf and only learned about our history from YOU. Via UA-cam. Precisely because weapons in general are still very much icky and strangely not talked about at all. In Oberndorf. Where HK is one of the biggest employers. And Mauser once filled ALL the valley with their buildings. Fun fact: the Swastika always shows up censored in Germany. I did not even notice.
At the Liège's gunsmith school Léon Mignon, you would definitely be recognized. By me for starter, after all if i'm doing this school it's because of this channel.
Yes! Belt fed 22s for everyone. 2000 rounds per minute with 2000 round belts giving 1 minute of sustained fires. And read the box, it'll have a range of 1 mile!
the pederson device will not be reproduced because it is a full auto design, and full auto new manufacture outside of government use is prohibited with few exceptions after 1986. the ammo was scrapped with the majority of the devices in the 1930's, according to Hatcher's Notebook.
The “best gun” for whomever is an often asked question. To which the best answer, in my opinion, is that which one shoots the best. And should include fundamental manipulation of the firearm, with re-loading and malfunction clearances being the most important since either could become a factor at any time. That said, I agree the AR-15 platform is often a weapon people find easy to use in a basic manner. Nonetheless, they require one learn how to use it and that means training. There’s no escaping the latter, regardless of what one has.
I know the video is a couple days old, but after scanning some of the comments, I didn't see any on this. I think you might be a little mistaken about a modern rocket ball ammo. The center of mass would be well forward of the center of lift (or drag as you have it) and wouldn't spin around to tail first. I'm not saying it would be stable because more goes into it than that, or that rocket ball ammo is a good or bad idea, just that having a hollow base would keep the center of mass forward, which is actually what you want. Think of a spear. The head being heavier is what keeps it from spinning around if you throw it. I say this with the most respectful intentions. You know way more than I do about most of these things.
You tube's black box of algorithmic no money for you makes no sense to me. Some channels have every video demonitised because they play 'violent' video games then other channels that just post clips of copyrighted material with no effort at all, it sets a pretty bad precedent in my opinion.
It really doesn't make sense. You don't get people to obey rules by not telling them what the rules are. Imagine if that's how laws worked - it would be chaos and utterly counterproductive. The reason google loves black box systems and automated monitoring is because it's cheap and they have to do less work.
Okay, so to get the front and rear sights in focus at the same time, you need to increase the "f stop" number or "F#" and you might need to increase the "iso" to adjust the brightness. Write down the current values, or any settings currently set to "auto" before the change, so you can go back to filming after. I don't know if it is worth your time, but someday you will see a really neat sight-picture and might want to share it with us.
Regarding C&R carry pistols: I agree that many of the historic guns we'd think of for the task are a bit outdated, but one good example would be a Makarov or Makarov-like pistol such as the PA-63 or Polish P64. Small, 9x18mm (or even .380) and featuring both DA/SA operation and a safety decocker.
Dosent have much to do with the video but I really appreciate that Ian leaves out politics in his videos. So many gun youtubers go on and on about the NRA and evil liberals, and Ian just sticks to the guns and that's really refreshing I find. So thanks Ian for that
Luke Oeltjenbruns Indeed, Ian is a scholar!
Cykablyat but is is caused or accelerated by humans and, the big one, who cares
Cykablyat absolutely!
Luke Oeltjenbruns Sometimes you do have to get into politics, remember when politicians tried to ban AR 15s in 2012.
Adrian Myers Well, not on cooking channels maybe.
Best UA-cam channel on weapons, ever. No competition, not even close. Great work Ian.
Have you watched C&Rsenal?
Have you seen Flannel daddy or papa kalash
@@kevinsullivan3448 Yes i have. Also great channel.
Try Brttish muzzleloaders
Just wanted to chime in and say that your ability to keep your channel scrupulously apolitical is why I've been able to keep watching it for over a year.
It's attacking self avowed National Socialists to call them "Nazis"?
I just...don't see the logic? Is it derogatory to call a Light Emitting Diode an LED?
And honestly I remember a time when denouncing Nazis was just considered basic human decency, not a political stance of any sort...
I mean, we sort of fought a war over it and all...
@@sudasuda5529 hhhm,
@@sudasuda5529 When was this? 😂
@@sudasuda5529 Hol up, are you claiming unironically to be a literal “national socialist”?
The Browning Recoiless shotgun was a fully mechanical somewhat 'recoiless' shotgun. A single shot 12 gauge that used a fully mechanical recoil mitigating assembly. Came out in the mid 1990's and didn't see many sales due to an extremely high price and a general fragile build. I believe the gas/magazine tube shotgun you're referring to was a Trap model Remington 870 that you briefly touched on in one video.
I never realized you did so much work curating comments. I love your work and am in awe of the effort you put in to maintain a friendly and informative channel for your viewers. Thank you very much, Ian.
We don't call him gun jesus just based on appearance :)
What does curating comments mean?
@@NicholasAdeptus Cleaning the trash comments. Or people spreading misinformation about a firearm that Ian knows for a fact is wrong.
For the question at about 17:30, the best historical cow gun would probably be a makrov. It's small compact and has the military feel to it. Other possibilities are either going to be expensive, scarce, or large.
Naw, derringer all the way
The Spencer has a protected feed tube. The feed tube on the Henry is fragile and open to dirt and debris.
I wish the beltfed 22 guy would have won the argument in the us :D
Markus The Turtle Me too. Now I'm a little sad.
That is an M249, afterall.
Markus The Turtle - I'd like to see the prototype at least.
GunFun ZS in a sense yes
@@GunFunZS I mean yeah quite literally
When are you going to make a video of a phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range?
Joan Summers you ain't getting notnin' done with 40 watts, you need at least a kilowatt.........
Joan Summers and you also need a variable frequency oscillator to rotate phases to reduce the possibility of jamming.
tarstakars How about a video of a 45 long slide with laser sighting?
tarstakars you forgot the desmotronic actuator and cold fused fusion pack to power the unit as well.
Joan Summers
Can't go wrong with a nine millimeter UZI when your a cyberdyne systems model T-800
Regarding the Ironcross:
The Ironcross is just a German military honor, as well a symbol of our military. I really don’t like how many people take a Nazi symbol and replace it with a German symbol and I am really glad that you don’t use the Ironcross.
Thank you
As a left handed person I would like to see you dive into the history of left handed weapons and the history of ambidextrous controls development.
s2meister That's almost every video!
Insanely informative, unbiased, and entertaining as always, Ian! Keep doing what you're doing, I feel you've got a magic formula here and your channel's got nowhere to go but up. (Despite UA-cam's best efforts...)
Always appreciate the longer format of the Q&A's, thanks Ian.
@Forgotten Weapons: If you're looking for the ZG 1229 Vampir, there's one in the "Wehrtechnische Sammlung Koblenz".
You can contact them here: tinyurl.com/y8x53y3r
(Second section, first link.)
If you should have any questions or need support doing so, I'd be happy to help.
The guy that asked about replacement stocks for milsurps. The best advice I can give to all. If you have a milsurp, that either you wish to restore or repair. The best way that I've found is one of two ways. 1) buy a gss (gunsmith special), AKA a second gun of the same type that is currently inoperable, but can be harvested for the parts you need. 2) drill purpose, buy a drill purpose rifle, and harvest the parts needed. Usually doing those two things, will offer a better return on investment, and easier way to fix up a good rifle.
Another thing in the AT grenade's favor that would make it more popular with squads is that it is way harder to tell what is going on and stop it if the whole unit is riflemen than if there are three guys crowded around a tube.
3:44 Ordinance wanted to use the same round in machine guns and combat rifles to make their jobs simpler. 5.56 is not a great round to take out traditional middle eastern buildings, strong stone walls, or moderately tough vehicles nor is it a great round for long distances.
ผมอยากมีบา้ว
We should be issuing belt fed 22LR to EVERYBODY!
FYI, the "Bf 109" used by Israël were Avia S-199s, which were built in Czekoslovakia with original German Messershmitt 109G parts and airframes. However Avia didn't have access to any of the original Daimler engines used in the Bf-109s over the years so they put Jumo engines from bombers under the hood, which made them pretty terrible and unstable.
They ended up being replaced by Spitfire pretty fast.
Same with spain, but they used merlin engines instead
The Diamler engines are what made that plane such a performer. Anything else would be garbage.
It's two stage supercharger is massive on a Merlin.
Belt fed 22s for everyone!!!
Real men shoot 308 *makes semi quiet pew pew noises*
I must be an above average man.. I shoot 30-06 .. what can I say, my .308 is just longer :)
There's a miniature .22 LR M1919, semi auto with a crank on youtube.
Very importantly the belt-fed 22s need to have sights adjustable out to 1,000 yards. So many bullets, one is bound to hit!
Real men shoot 308 yessss belt fed 22 mag for me too!
Ian, man if you read this... Man I sometimes leave my app going for hours... Love your show man... Awesome 👍 the history is just incredible. The craftsmanship. The story behind the item. I personally don't own weapons . They are expensive and the ammo is even worse. But this channel is on the top of my list. Man keep it up,
Some of us have definitely fallen asleep while Ian is teaching.
I also love that he focuses on tech specs and history cos that's what makes the subject matter interesting.
Very on point video design all round!
56 DVD Forgotten Weapons Box Set Now Available for Patreon Members!
Joe for reals?
I would actually buy that lol
Blu Ray
Modern rocket ball ammo has been tried! In the late 70s, Fiocchi developed the 9mm AUPO round, which had an elongated jacket that held propellant. It offered no advantages over cased ammo and was dropped pretty quickly.
The "best historical pistol for CCW" type could be several, depending on several factors. The Colt 1903 pocket hammerless is the best example I can think of. A nice Weimar era Walther PPK has interesting history. For newer, but still forgotten in the west; the Soviet PSM.
Agreed, I thought PPK too
@10:00 Yes, it was a Browning you describe and it was called "Recoilless Trap". It was only made in 12 gauge and only for two years. Thanks to the gas system and the rather hefty weight recoil was virtually nonexistent. Trap guns are much more likely to be embellished- decorative engraving, fancy 'exhibition grade' wood, gold inlaid, etc- than most guns. I think that was a big reason it only lasted for two years. It was just an exceptionally ugly gun.
One advantage of rifle grenades over rockets is the lack of backblast. Bazookas could not be used inside small building rooms and were iffy when used from foxholes and trenches because if the backblast is confined it bounces back and roasts the user and any nearby friends. Rifle grenades could be fired from pretty much anywhere.
Bannerman Castle's visible on trains north of New York City. Always a nice little treat to see something that *looks* like medieval ruins while actually being scarcely a century old.
@1:12:10 In the case of a rocket ball, A heavy weight at the front and a light weight at the back is the stable configuration. I can tell you from my experience with designing rockets, you WANT to centre of mass ahead of the centre of drag.
I agree although the term you want is center of mass ahead of the center of pressure (as in, aerodynamic drag pressure when the bullet is turned slightly sideways). COM and COG are the same thing so they cannot be at different locations. There is also the opportunity to spin the bullet still, which eliminates the need for aerodynamic stability (and is superior for something like a bullet with a short, high speed flight duration). I'm afraid that Ian is wrong about the stability issue.
Wow. Never heard Ian swear before. But calling neo-Nazis "assholes" seems appropriate.
chris becker He did occasionally curse more in his older videos.
Trench talk from gun Jesus? I'm not sure I want that knowledge. It would be like finding pornography in a church.
chris becker It's kosher, he doesn't take his own name in vain.
I also quite enjoyed the swearing and mis-timed censorship here: ua-cam.com/video/PYfGq1yk66Q/v-deo.html
Well that's a relief. The only blasphemy I want to see here is what he did with that Ross rifle.
Why haven't more militaries adopted the ultimax LMG? It seems like a great way to mitigate recoil but still have a relatively lightweight gun
Carl Smith low rate of fire perhaps?
frank damsy In short, it makes the most logistical sense. In some cases, they will even reuse parts of their infantry rifles for their belt fed LMGs, like the PKM which uses a modified AK bolt.
frank damsy Really its impressive how many ways you can reconfigure a weapon. Buts theres always gonna be limits to that inherent to the base design. For instance, AR-15's dont make the best LMG's. Everything is so compact and tightly fitted. Any warping caused by heat will have more of an effect in an AR-15 based LMG than an AK or G3.
I don't know if its reality or just a perception of reality but generally 556 is considered inadequate for lmgs
Fox Phelps Its generally considered sub par for LMG's probably due to comparatively low ability to penetrate hard cover. But i can't think of other reasons for this idea of it being a poor LMG round. It would seem to make a great round for belt fed LMGs which are mainly suppression tools. You can fit a lot more 5.56 into a container than say, 7.62x39 or even 5.45x39. Standard box for the M249 is 200 rounds. Low recoil too, especially when in a heavy belt fed like the M249. Theoretically speaking, it seems to be a dream for suppressive fire.
+Forgotten Weapons Wrt a "Modern Rocket Ball" ammunition, there actually exists something very similar. The 9×25 mm AUPO for the Benelli CB M2 SMG.
It works much like a rocket ball, comprised of a jacketed bullet with the jacket extended out to provide a hollow for the propellant and plugged by a flammable seal. The cartridge was fired by striking a band that was around the middle of the cartridge (think rimfire with a pinfire striking orientation), and depending on your source, the case section would break off but still follow the bullet out the barrel.
The image of Bannerman's Arsenal in the thumbnail brought me here. I grew up near the ruins of this old castle on Pollepel Island in the Hudson River and used to hear all sorts stories about it. It's worth taking a ride on the Metro North commuter trains out of Grand Central Terminal to Poughkeepsie, New York where they turn around and go back to the city, just to see the sights along the river - of which Bannerman's is just one.
RE: CCW handguns with historical significance - Good answer, Ian. If you broaden the context of the question a bit, I'd nominate the Browning HP developed in 1935.
For the concealed carry I instantly thought of the browning high power. Interesting historical gun and still a good gun to this day
I have a very special gun as my EDC myself and it's not just a C&R but an antique gun!That is a conehammer Mauser C-96 made in 1897!Very historical yet very easy to find ammo for and in fact a damn great self defense tool!To be honest I really won't say that it has any major disadvantages against more modern guns so I already carry it for a while now.. As of today I had already smoked a few whitetail deer with my conehammer C-96 this season 😎
I desperately want a Hi-Power, unfortunately I'm Canadian and actually getting to use it as more than a range toy is out of the question
1:19:25 Weapon I'd carry? A naval Luger, because please, put me in the Kreigsmarine as an officer in WWI.
You don't come off as a crazed gun nut, one of the many reasons I love about your videos.
One of the reasons why I like him. I like guns but I can't stand the gun community.
In regards to the US not adopting the 1917 Enfield after WW1 and subsequent criticism, it was probably a good thing and in hindsight. It helped adopt the M1 Garand, which was arguably the most advanced main rifle in WW2.
Love the thumbnail image as I live within eye shot of Bannermans Island! In fact me and a few friends used to canoe out to the island play around n explore back in the 1980’s🤙🤙🤙🤘🤘🤘🤘
Easter Egg: Ian's Blue Sun shirt from the FIrefly franchise means we'll be getting an episode on Jayne's "Vera" at some point.
A saiga 12 gauge?
That didn't age well
I am a South African, and bought the book on South African firearms only after you reviewed it. Keep up the good work
The AEK-971 has recoil mitigation in its design as well.
Late to the party but I have to comment on the Vampir (ZG1229) scope. The WTS museum in Koblenz has one on display. In regards to Ian's comment about one being in the US, I had the pleasure of meeting the former curator of the Aberdeen Ordnance Museum Bill Atwater in 2005 and asked him about the ZG1229 and he said he knew of one owner in the US and believed him to be in Washington (whether he meant the state or DC I didn't ask).
41 Action Express is an obsolete round that could still have a place. 40 SW pushed it out of the market, but it 41 AE was a better middle ground between 9mm and 45acp.
Also if someone wants to look at differences in revolvers then look into Mateba's designs. He was quite willing to try new things.
Great video! Only one thing about the rocketball- having a front-heavy projectile is GOOD for stability- it is how most types of shotgun slugs intended for smoothbores are stabilised.
Regarding rocket ball aerodynamics (1:12:00 ish): big mass at the front, big surface at the back is actually a very stable configuration for forward flight. Look at darts - either the kind used for playing the game of darts, or the kind used in NERF toys - both have the weight towards the front and both fly straight.
In the early 70's I qualified on the Thompson, aboard a fast attack submarine, used for repel boarder situations.
I'm voting for the guy that wants to give belt-fed .22s to everybody!
Did anyone actually propose that?
@@IndividualistMusic Maybe Vermin Supreme? Or was that ponys?
@@loger_2floofyboogaloo278 Yeah that was ponys. That guys a funny guy.
Regarding what you said around 57 minutes in: The M16 burst system can fairly easily accommodate 1 (although I don't know why you'd want to), 2, 3, and 6 round bursts (the cam wheel has a total of 6 positions) just by changing the burst cam: The burst cam has six total positions, and the depth of those cuts determines whether or not the burst disconnector (which has two hooks, one of which rides on the burst cam) moves far enough forward to catch the hammer. As a result, all you'd need to do to get the above bursts is to swap the burst cam for one with the right configuration of equally-spaced deep notches (6, 3, 2, and 1 deep notches respectively to get the burst lengths referenced above). It's definitely not the sort of thing that a soldier should do in the field, but it's absolutely something that an armorer could do at a depot.
I've never seen a 6-round burst cam, but I've definitely seen a picture of a 2-round burst cam shared on the NFA discussion board over at Subguns.
Wow with InRangeTV this is about 4hours Q&A
I'm not complaining.
It's outside of stevemre1989 releasing a bunch of videos....the best time of the month.
German here. That video should actually be reasonably easy to restore in germany. You are pretty much the definition of the exception here. Similiar content from germany (especially Dr. Ludwig can explain alot) has been reinstated many times before
RE: CCW old guns. I have used both a 1911 A1 GI and a PPK/S as ccw because they are what I had. It was a bigger pain than having a modern gun and the moisture of my body caused minor corrosion on both guns, something I would not care about on a working gun but something that would suck to see on a collectors gun.
19:39 - what about 7.62x45 from 1950's Czech republic? The only reason they dropped it was because x39 standardization was cheaper. It would be a more effective intermediate .30 caliber than 300blk or 7.62x39 while still having a shorter action and less recoil than 7.62x51 NATO.
Would it be more effective though? It might have problems fitting in any kind of magazine because it is 2mm longer than 5.56 and 5.45 and 4mm longer than 7.62x39 so it would probably only be viable for a completely new weapon. In terms of performance it is also not really a significant change over 7.62x39. It's definately not a bad caliber but what does it offer that is worth the hassle of changing to it?
To hell with the thumbnail! Your fans watch your show for the history you teach and the fascinating firearms. I am one of those fans. Keep up the great work!
I'd think a CZ-82 would make for a respectable C&R CCW pistol. Granted it has some draw backs such as weight being an all steel design. The lack of a decocker is a legitimate safety concern, and 9mm makarov isn't the most potent option and it lacks ammo options. But it is a solid and reliable DA/SA compact pistol with ambi safety and mag release that has 12+1 rounds and is a C&R pistol.
the russian AEK rifles and the SR1 and ak107 are also using a recoil reducing system, it works by having a weight that moves forward as the bolt moves backward. pretty good working and also pretty simple compared to things like an94
Thanks for the great QA Ian, IMO it's the best one yet.
I really like the ones like this that include a good bit of your ideas/views as well as the interesting and awesome military and firearm info we all are drawn here for originally.
Keep up the good work!
I too had been wondering about a modernised version of Rocket Ball.
Thank you Ian, for all your efforts to educate us.
I’m working on a design for a weapon that has never existed (the ATF agent i called told me to call it a large gauge pistol with a 36 inch handle... but they’d never heard of such a thing) anyways i was really impressed with the locking-block system of the Nambu-15. And i was wondering since I cannot find a video on youtube that really covers the hows, whys and working of a locking-block system could you please make one? As for everyone else if you could explain it to me i’m all ears
That you can get over half a million happy subscribers via a 'one-man operation' is something you should be bloody proud of, mate :)
If you can carry a Browning Hi-power, and conceal it, that wouldn't be a horrible choice. Kinda the only older design that I would carry today.
It is funny all the firearms I conceal carry regularly and 50+ years old, even my HD gun is Win. M12 riot gun from WWII. The three gun I routinely carry are a S&W M19-2 4", a Bulgarian Makarov in 9x18mm, and a Pieper Model 1908 in 32 acp. I would love to add a Hi-Power to the collection as well. People seem to forget many designs that are old but oft recommended, some example being, 1911 style pistols, S&W revolvers of all frame sizes and barrel lengths, Ruger revolvers, Colt revolvers, and Makarov pistols to name a few. I personally also like to acquire and would carry a Colt M1908 in 380 acp, and some small 32 acp pocket pistols of various makes in addition to some smaller revolvers than my 4" Smith and Wesson.
Anytime you can use both your own ammo and that of your opponent you eliminate the major problem of supply and resupply under combat conditions..especially in a country like Finland where supply has a very long (and precarious) supply line as a major impediment...
One of the nice things to help get around some of the more nonsensical tendencies in the UK is collecting old rifles and such. For some reason, despite it not being in law anywhere, Police Forces are very hesitant about letting you have multiple rifles, blackpowder/long barreled pistols in the same caliber, to the extent that it can be difficult to argue with your Firearms Officer about how a .44 Magnum LBR is not the same as a .44 muzzleloader (if you have a bad one, or one that isn't familar with firearms, which is more likely than you think...). The exceptions are shotguns and .22lr rifles, but again, all it takes is one firearms officer with a chip on their shoulder and you can have difficulties. Being an obvious collector and having the right attitude can go a long way to helping with this, especially in the case of Lee Enfields and such. Other good areas to focus your collection, if you want to shoot, are antique percussion revolvers; the Adams/Webleys/etc can all be owned without a certificate for display, and can be put onto your FAC if you want to shoot them. Getting them off the certificate so they can be sold freely and displayed (not stored inside of a gunsafe) is a bit of a legal faf-around where basically you take the gun to a registered firearms dealer and have it destroyed on paper (legally the gun is destroyed, while remaining intact and allowing you to display or sell it without a certificate); while you then have to get a like for like new slot on your ticket to get another one in your collection on your certificate. If you're not concerned about this and just want to shoot them, it's a good way to go, and of course, it allows you to buy/sell them before you have them on your firearms certificate. The same goes for any of the antique, obsolete cartridge rifles, such as Schmidt-Rubins, Marinti-Henrys, etc. If you're not particularly concerned with shooting your firearms, then pocket pistols of the late Victorian/Early 20th century can be a fun area to explore, with the obsolete rimfire rounds, .320 British etc. Having a few of these are great for display, mechanical interest, etc and can also help you justify your requests for a collection reason to have a firearm on your FAC AND can also help you in acquiring a 7.1 or 7.3 slot for a collector interest, allowing you to own a modern cartridge loading handgun or revolver that would otherwise be Section 5.
Interesting thing about the Pattern 14 Enfield and the No.4 Enfield rifles is just how long they saw service. The No.4 was in use until 2016 with the Canadian Rangers, and the 14 is still in use with the Danish Sirius Dogsled Patrol in Greenland
One of the best books I have found is W.W.Greener's "The Gun" is great coverage of gun development up to the first world war
The Israeli military adopted 8mm for a plethora of reasons. One reason that comes to mind(similar to Finland) is the fact that many of Israeli’s not so happy neighbors used 8mm extensively(especially former ottoman territories).It was also extremely cheap and combat tested and approved. The m1 carbine is also STILL very popular. Many of these came in as military aid(free) so these are STILL quite common.
RE the Pedersen cartridge, Mike Beliveau (aka Duelist1954) has reloaded .32 French long for his M1935A pistol, he made a video or two on the subject. the main problem is the brass, it can be made out of .32s&w brass, but requires machining on a lathe to remove the rim and cut an extractor groove into the casehead. bullets are available, hornady makes an XTP 90gr in .309 diameter.
Well said. I'm a dirty lefty, anti-gun dude, but seeing those machines is lovely. Like a great wrist watch. cheers.
I'm fascinated by Ian's knowledge. His advice is spot on.
Ian you're about the most intelligent and educated on weapons. Thanks for sharing the knowledge.
About the Finnish cartridge question... There were tests about 5.56 vs 7.62 in the forested area, where 5.56 would wander off of a little hit of foliage, where as 7.62 would withstand those with a good trajectory.
As far as CCW hand guns go the Markov's are very viable handguns the type 64 or standard Markov are reliable small enough to be easy carry for the most part most military guns are great for service arms but to large and heavy to make CCW a viable option
I've never found a Bergmann Stripper Clip, but the ones for my C96 Mauser seem to work okay in my 1910/21. Not ideal, but they fit and feed fairly reliably. Hope this helps.
I was really surprised you talked about the Stock Lock and similar shotgun recoil system. The 870 competition used a gas system resembling the one on an 1100
A frequently overlooked advantage of rifle grenades vs bazookas is rifle grenades have no backblast. Bazookas cannot be used from buildings and bunkers without the rocket backblast bouncing around and roasting the user, even from an entrenchment the user has to rise to a fairly elevated position to keep the backblast out of the trench. This basically means using a bazooka requires the user to dangerously expose himself to enemy fire and observation. Rifle grenades can be used from cover anywhere you can use a rifle.
I think sticking with a full-power cartridge was right based on World War I experience, where soldiers were shooting at each other at relatively long ranges between trenches. And I think it was right based on the longer ranges in many theaters of World War II. What really allowed intermediate cartridges to shine, though, was the accuracy of the AR platform and the inaccuracy of earlier weapons. The M1 Garand was a 2-4 MOA weapon; acceptable for its day, but it effectively neutered the .30-06 cartridge to around 400 yards effective range. Meanwhile, an AR with 5.56 is usable out to around 600 yards. A full-power cartridge with the right weapon will certainly have a more versatile engagement envelope, but they simply got leapfrogged.
A slight mistake about modern "Rocket Balls". The heavy nose - light tail is "Inherently Stable", not unstable. Such a missile does not require rifling at all, or fins either. See "Fliegerfaust" ammunition. It may have been spun, but it was done so as to prevent uneven burning of the propellent from making it veer off course. Projectiles that long in relation to their diameter can not be spin stabilized! The upper limit of spin stabilized projectile L/D Ratio is less than seven, but most rifles use a projectile 4-5/1 L/D Ratio because of the extremely rapid rate of twist required for longer bullets. Such rifles often have 6-6.5"/1 full turn of the rifling twist, while most normal rifles have 1 Turn in 9-14" if they are expected to last a long time. The 1 in 7" twist rate of some M-16s and M-4 Carbines required by the longer bullets required to give a sufficient SD for longer range, resulted a lack of wounding power by reducing the tumbling after impact.
For the old, concealed carry handgun, a browning hi power
Check out the second image on this page: souvenezvous44.blogspot.com/2013/03/iwa-2013-nuremberg.html It looks like a Gerat 1221 was exhibited in someone's booth at IWA 2013?
I have a Browning recoilless trap gun that is a long recoil action turned backwards so the barrel reciprocates forward and then back and the pretty stiff recoil spring absorbs "up to 75% of felt recoil" and I can confirm it works. It's also interesting that it's a self cocking, manually operated bolt action as well
Just blur the flag. Your content is of great historical value, especially for us Germans. I live in Oberndorf and only learned about our history from YOU. Via UA-cam. Precisely because weapons in general are still very much icky and strangely not talked about at all. In Oberndorf. Where HK is one of the biggest employers. And Mauser once filled ALL the valley with their buildings.
Fun fact: the Swastika always shows up censored in Germany. I did not even notice.
At the Liège's gunsmith school Léon Mignon, you would definitely be recognized.
By me for starter, after all if i'm doing this school it's because of this channel.
Man for normal people . Please SHOW the WEAPON (just pic) you talk about . Best gun Chanel
Yes! Belt fed 22s for everyone. 2000 rounds per minute with 2000 round belts giving 1 minute of sustained fires. And read the box, it'll have a range of 1 mile!
I like the idea if historically accurate flags, it's a shame so many adults act like whiny little crybabies.
the pederson device will not be reproduced because it is a full auto design, and full auto new manufacture outside of government use is prohibited with few exceptions after 1986. the ammo was scrapped with the majority of the devices in the 1930's, according to Hatcher's Notebook.
When Ian lets his hair down and just chats.
One could argue that a Savage 1907 in .380 would be a competent and usable CCW weapon today
The “best gun” for whomever is an often asked question. To which the best answer, in my opinion, is that which one shoots the best. And should include fundamental manipulation of the firearm, with re-loading and malfunction clearances being the most important since either could become a factor at any time.
That said, I agree the AR-15 platform is often a weapon people find easy to use in a basic manner. Nonetheless, they require one learn how to use it and that means training. There’s no escaping the latter, regardless of what one has.
1:03:37 Velcro, turning hand grenades into sticky grenades since 1957
Several years ago I was at Springfield Sporters and saw 1896 Chilean Mausers that were converted to NATO 7.62 and had Israeli markings.
I love the Q&A. I always learn interesting things.
I know the video is a couple days old, but after scanning some of the comments, I didn't see any on this. I think you might be a little mistaken about a modern rocket ball ammo. The center of mass would be well forward of the center of lift (or drag as you have it) and wouldn't spin around to tail first. I'm not saying it would be stable because more goes into it than that, or that rocket ball ammo is a good or bad idea, just that having a hollow base would keep the center of mass forward, which is actually what you want. Think of a spear. The head being heavier is what keeps it from spinning around if you throw it. I say this with the most respectful intentions. You know way more than I do about most of these things.
You tube's black box of algorithmic no money for you makes no sense to me. Some channels have every video demonitised because they play 'violent' video games then other channels that just post clips of copyrighted material with no effort at all, it sets a pretty bad precedent in my opinion.
Yeah, it's pretty crappy. But the reason it's a black box is to keep people from gaming the system. Which makes sense.
Yeah, I can only hope it sorts itself out to more forgiving for channels with honest intentions to just make good content.
Well obviously a sound educational channel that doesn't hate firearms must be evil....right?!
I've watched a few other historical educationy videos with guns in recently that have had adds on them.
It really doesn't make sense. You don't get people to obey rules by not telling them what the rules are.
Imagine if that's how laws worked - it would be chaos and utterly counterproductive. The reason google loves black box systems and automated monitoring is because it's cheap and they have to do less work.
I can't find the part about modern rocket balls in the description
Thanks for answering my question.
Okay, so to get the front and rear sights in focus at the same time, you need to increase the "f stop" number or "F#" and you might need to increase the "iso" to adjust the brightness. Write down the current values, or any settings currently set to "auto" before the change, so you can go back to filming after. I don't know if it is worth your time, but someday you will see a really neat sight-picture and might want to share it with us.
Soviet/Russian Kord machine gun uses recoil absorption. Aek971 and Ak107 also use balanced automatics
Regarding C&R carry pistols: I agree that many of the historic guns we'd think of for the task are a bit outdated, but one good example would be a Makarov or Makarov-like pistol such as the PA-63 or Polish P64. Small, 9x18mm (or even .380) and featuring both DA/SA operation and a safety decocker.
I don't no if the cz82 is historically significant enough for you, but I think it is a phenomenal little pistol and would not hesitate carrying one