Dear Dan, Ref: ua-cam.com/video/b6Y8GuUQlUQ/v-deo.html: Right Teardrop to the Left Downwind. Legal or Illegal? Thank you for this most important subject. I presented an argument against this dangerous and illegal maneuver at a FAASTEAM at Broward College just last month. I fly in South Florida, arguable one of the two busiest spots on Earth. In my two decades of flying here I have had only two close calls from other aircraft, and they involved this. I was doing pattern work in a Seminole at KOBE and another instructor from further north entered the pattern in a Piper using this method. We were windshield to windshield on two different days. FAR §157.2 for airport planning states, "Traffic pattern means the traffic flow that is prescribed for aircraft landing or taking off from an airport, including departure and arrival procedures utilized within a 5-mile radius of the airport for ingress, egress, and noise abatement." In other words, once you are within the airport operational area, you are part of the "traffic pattern." The airport operational area is 5 statute miles unless otherwise noted and therefore, it makes no difference whether a control tower is operating or not. "Airport Vicinity" has its own specific definition; see above sentence. The ICAO "Aeronautical Information Publication" - AIP GEN 2.2-13: "In the Vicinity: An aircraft is in the vicinity of a non-towered aerodrome if it is within a horizontal distance of 10 miles; and within a height above the aerodrome reference point that could result in conflict with operations at the aerodrome." 11 July 2008. This definition is backed up by the Aerodrome Meteorological Observation and Forecast Study Group of ICAO, AMOFSG/8-SN No. 23, 21 January 2009. §170.3(1): Local operations, is even more restrictive; (?) "… within a 20-mile radius of the airport; … ." Canada is not as restrictive with a note under 'Aerodrome traffic' "In this sense an aircraft is considered to be in the vicinity of an aerodrome when it is entering or leaving an aerodrome traffic circuit (5 nm's)." Finally, 7-1-29b8(b) "Proximity applies to and reported only for weather occurring in the vicinity of the airport (between 5 and 10 miles of the point(s) of observation)." The conclusion is that anything less than 5 statute miles is too close for this maneuver! §§91.126 & 91.127 seems to imply 4nm. Also see 4-1-9c1&2. AC 90-66B, Change 1: "Non-Towered Airport Flight Operations," 11.2, dated 25 February 2019 clearly says to "[F]ly clear of [the] traffic pattern (approx.. 2 mi.)"; that's 2 mi past the traffic pattern, not the runway. But why do all this? Why not do what the older Flying Handbooks advised us to do and that was join any of the traffic pattern legs either directly or on the 45°. So I advise my students to join the Upwind leg, turn to the Crosswind after the departure end of the runway and continue as if you had executed a go-a-round. Aviationally yours, Bob.
I was taught the same thing, to overfly field, look at windsock, fly out, and make a right turn for the 45. "Teardrop" wasnt used. It was understood you went out far enough to give yourself a straight 45 segment, otherwise you'd run into the other pilots 45 segment.
This. This right here is the smart and correct way. Nobody's "teardropping" or dropping in any way to a downwind. One is turning right and decending (or "dropping") into a 45, which is the correct and safe way to enter a pattern. Folks that get wrapped around the axle about making a right turn fail to understand the left turn rule is for PATTERNS. The approach and entry are NOT part of the pattern.
Read the Advisory Circular 90-C. The descent and right turn are done well beyond the left downwind. For those of us that understand High Key, Low Key for SFO , I don't see the confusion.
@@javadocF16 I believe that is exactly what he/she is saying by "fly out" then make the turn/decent for the 45. 2 miles is what is depicted on AC90-66C, appA.
I was taught the same thing, for my PPL back in 2002. I don’t remember the instructor ever stressing “flying out beyond the downwind”. Pretty much start the teardrop maybe 1/2mile from the centerline.
This teardrop entry is not new. When I learned to fly in 1972, I was instructed to do this: When approaching land at and uncontrolled airport, fly over the airport at midfield, 1000' above pattern altitude (which was 800' AGL at that time), observe the windsock, then make a descending teardrop turn into the traffic pattern. On my first unsupervised solo flight, I went to our local practice field to practice landings. Unbeknownst to me, that field was also used by the University of California at Davis skydiving club. I flew over midfield at an altitude that happened to be the level at which skydivers deploy their parachutes. Two chutes opened about 500 yards ahead of me. Using the superior skills I had developed during my vast dozen flight hours, I cranked that Cessna 150 into an aerobatic steep bank and returned to base for a change of underwear and a chat with my flight instructor. A few weeks later I became a DPE. During that intervening time, the teardrop entry became thankfully uncommon. At our annual mandatory choir practice with the FAA, the FSDO inspector railed on the examiners to use our influence our influence to stomp out teardrop entry wherever it reared its ugly head. At one airport in the Houston area where I commonly conducted practical tests, I would encounter applicants who would employ the teardrop entry. I would not fail them for using it, but we would have an in-depth post-checkride discussion about it. Incidentally, I ran and airport where skydiving operations were regularly conducted. Advising transient pilots against crossing midfield was a never-ending task.
Enter on crosswind, at patten altitude. That complies with the letter of 14 CFR 91.126, avoids the dangerous practices of crossing midfield and descending into the pattern.
@@garygandy2615 I see a lot more midfield cross and left teardrop into downwind than I hear anyone mentioning upwind for crosswind to downwind. It always feels 'weird' to me to enter upwind because no one else appears to be in that airspace.
I was taught in the early 80s to cross the airfield 500' above, then enter the 45 dw leg. Been doin that way ever since. Never had any conflicts that I can remember.
@@ProbableCause-DanGryder Being aware of all the traffic and communicating your position at un-towered fields is something you’ve advocated for in other videos. It’s a basic fundamental of flying. Anyone who is following their iPad without announcing their position or looking out the windscreen is going to have problems however they enter the pattern.
@@mikestanzel1192 No, I have not advocated for communicating your position! Announcing your position is not communication! Right now you and I are communicating. We go back and forth. Big difference. ATC uses communication. Pilots at non- towered fields should do the same.
@@ProbableCause-DanGryderIt's a start of the communication process. If Lear Jet N567 announces he is on a long downwind on 35 left the guy crossing midfield to enter the pattern, either by circling and using the 45 or hanging a left at altitude can be on the look out. The pattern is so slow at our field with 152's and 172's he would be much wiser to just land straight in on the final. That is what usually happens and the pilots doing the straight in are talking a lot. I've had problems with a Seminole being too fast.. That being said pilots are always talking to each other here," there is an eagle or a herd of deer hanging around"," I don't see you", "how far out are you?" etc. P.S. Flying a DC3 is on my bucket list!
Page 8-5 of the FAA Airplane Flying Handbook does have a diagram illustrating this maneuver, with the following commentary: "One method of entry from the opposite side of the pattern is to announce intentions and cross over midfield at least 500 feet above pattern altitude (normally 1,500 feet AGL). However, if large or turbine aircraft operate at the airport, it is best to remain 2,000 feet AGL so as not to conflict with their traffic pattern. When well clear of the pattern-approximately 2 miles-the pilot should scan carefully for traffic, descend to pattern altitude, then turn right to enter at 45° to the downwind leg at midfield. [Figure 8-3A] An alternate method is to enter on a midfield crosswind at pattern altitude, carefully scan for traffic, announce intentions, and then turn downwind. [Figure 8-3B] This technique should not be used if the pattern is busy."
@@TheAirplaneDriver it’s a terrible practice that opens the door to a head on collision at mid-field. I would never advocate the direct from over the runway to downwind. Remember that no radio aircraft are still around and legal, not to mention non ADS-B classic planes.
@@Aeronca11 Sorry, I don’t agree. It is essentially no different than turning crosswind after departure to enter the downwind….say as in closed pattern work. As you approach the runway you have a clear view of everyone in the pattern and until you make the turn to downwind, wings are level and there are no visual obstructions from the wings and you are not climbing or descending. It has nothing to do with radios or ADSB. I am curious how you enter the pattern from opposite the downwind leg?
@planeDriverWell, I disagree. 1. You don't have a clear view of the pattern under your nose and the focus of all the other planes is on the runway and getting the plane configured for landing. Add sun angles into the mix too. I enter the pattern by approaching the airport on a broad circle outside of the area to prepare to enter the 45, listening to get the flow and also eyeballs out to watch for non-radio traffic and non ADS-B traffic. This only takes another minute or two and it doesn't say I'm entitled to the pattern. It's a safe and polite way to follow the pattern. One follows the flow, 45 to downwind. Or crosswind if you remain in the pattern. This is a new system of direct opposite 45 entry that only has a FAA mention recently. I looked up the flight training manuals from the 1980s when I got the license, and there is absolutely no mention of the crossing over the runway to get directly into the pattern. The FAA is doing something here that the ATC wouldn't do. Setting up a pattern with two planes coming head on at mid-field, should one be on the 45 and this crossing the field at pattern altitude for a direct entry. I firmly believe that a traffic pattern with this methodology is more dangerous, not less. One has to assume all things are working in your favor to do it. I don't.
I think some of the TPA Crosswind-to-Left Turn-to-Downwind pilots in this debate think everyone is on a Left Downwind. Your point about aircraft coming directly at you at TPA on the 45 degree entry is being swept under the rug.
It's illustrated in the FAA Airplane Flying Handbook, yeah I had to look it up myself as I had never heard of it till a new cfi at the home airport started doing it and non of us old timers knew what the heck he was doing.
I’ve often used this entry at my old pilot controlled airport. At the end of my descending teardrop I would enter on the 45. I guess what you are saying is if you do this, it should be 4 miles away and enter the 45 at the PA to be safe.
Tear drop into downwind is from the faa flying handbook page 8-5 and figure 8-3 in the latest update. While the faa flying handbook doesn’t use the word teardrop, their figure is the same pattern that ForeFlight gives, a teardrop. The faa says this is the preferred method to enter a pattern when approaching the airport from the upwind side. I think this FAA method needs further analysis and development. Although foreflight may have used the word, teardrop, the FAA invented the pattern.
Current student pilot. The teardrop I have been taught doesn't replace the 45, it is just a precursor to get you to the 2 mile 45 from the opposite side. However, we seem to overfly the runway at 1500AGL during this manoeuvre. It should probably be updated to 2000ft above to avoid conflicting traffic as there are jets and large props.
All my instructors taught me the descending teardrop pattern entry as a safe maneuver. (They are all Foreflight user's. As am I.) I have done it a few times. I will never do it again. I will start discussing the topic too. Thanks Dan...
Please... Dont stop doing Teardrop enteries. Fly far enough out and then make your turn. Keep your eyes outside and be vigiliant of traffic well before starting the manuever do your right turn and enter the downwind on the 45 degree entry.
If you are descending into the pattern, you are doing it wrong. You should enter the pattern on a 45° angle to the downwind. The teardrop gets you in a position to enter the pattern at a 45° angle on altitude.
Thinks about it. If you were coming from 10 miles out set up on the 45 when would you descend. Probably so you are at pattern altitude when you enter the pattern or right at the end of the 45 when you enter downwind. I typically teach to go AT LEAST 2 miles from the centerline AT LEAST 500 above pattern altitude. Then start you descending right turn.. so you are on about a 1-2 mile 45 degree leg BEFORE entering the pattern. That way you can make all turns to the left IN the pattern.
@@JavierBrent thank you for your response. As far as I’m concerned, the pattern ““ is about a half mile away from the runway in the Cessna 172. At a non-towered airport all other areas from a Cessna standpoint is fair gain, climbing, descending or what have you. I know my designated examiner will have a long talk with one of my Pilot applicants, if they descend into the pattern, let’s say on a downwind, we all agree that’s not safe. Other than that aside from making left turns in the pattern, unless otherwise stated, the only other regulations that govern what we’re talking about are right of way rules. Therefore, anybody who has an opinion about that it’s just that. As an instructor I always lean on the airman’s information manual for guidance, and to show my students where to resort for information. I don’t think Dan is throwing things out there just to get reactions andviews. He is not monetized. I do wish you and him well. Thanks again.
Did A Right teardrop to left downwind on my solo XC, followed all the recommended procedures & everything worked out fine, but very good points to take into account in the video from the bad & good.
The FAA has issued two advisory circulars that contain the 'teardrop' maneuver (but doesn't call it that). The maneuver is depicted and explained in Appendix A (Page A-5) of AC No. 90-66C issued June 6, 2023. This version canceled AC No. 90-66B, issued 03-13-18 and which depicted and explained the maneuver on Page 9 (Para. 11.3) as the preferred method when approaching an untowered airport (or one whose ATC facility is closed at the time of arrival). The alternate method of overflying midfield at pattern altitude and then turning into the downwind leg is also depicted in both circulars. You do have a good point, however, that light airplanes overflying midfield at 500 feet above their pattern altitude could potentially conflict with heavier aircraft flying in the downwind leg at their pattern altitude of 1,500 AGL.
Remember that the FAA is underfunded, with new grads who may not have a pilots license and they are sitting a desk writing these suggested (not legally binding) methods in advisory circulars. UA-cam shows with personal opinions as law. And ForeFlight apparently doing what AI is going to be doing. . . giving us answers that some people take as law, that make no sense. Student pilots and CFIs in a rush to get a ticket to the bigs, without learning the safety culture. No wonder we are in a pickle.
I fly out of KHMP and do the teardrop entry on an extended pattern to come in correctly on the 45. I was taught this in 1997 when I got my license. Frankly, it's far safer than pilots crossing midfield and turning left onto the left downwind because they are (or should be) at least 500 above TPA and you are not descending 500 ft in .5 to 1 mile and safely "jumping in line" with others entering on the 45 or remaining in the pattern.
@@ProbableCause-DanGryder no sir. The procedure, when done correctly, has you entering at the beginning of the 45 just like flying south around our airport around either side of the airport and then coming in on the 45... And anyone coming on the 45 has to join the sequenced traffic already remaining in the pattern.
Rather than descending during the right teardrop, I fly at least 2+ miles from the runway and descend straight ahead to pattern altitude with an S turn then perform the right teardrop to the 45 at pattern altitude. I use this entry when there is other traffic in the pattern, which precludes a direct entry into a midfield downwind from a midfield crosswind entry.
Dan, I think you are correct and I can not believe no one is talking about FAR 91.126 (b) direction of turns and Advisor Circular 90-66c, which says, at airports without operating control towers, pilots of airplanes approaching to land make all turns to the left, unless light signals or visual markings indicate that turns should be made to the right. To me, doing anything different is illegal but I have a little bit more anxiety than the average pilot and I think that is what has kept me alive for more than 52 years of flying.
How are you going to make a left turn if you are entering the left downwind leg of the pattern on a 45 degree entry? Once you are on the downwind leg you are in the pattern not when you are "entering" the pattern.
Since the answer to your question is obvious I have to assume you need some help. You need to think about it a little bit longer instead jumping on an idea that you think can not be explained. Here is a hint: "For every rule there is an exception". So, start by researching my quote and also, if you have a pilot's license you should know were to look to research your question. If you are not a pilot, then I would say you are just looking for fight.@@mikestanzel1192
Dan, I think you should consider all possible approaches to determine whether right tear drop left downwind is more dangerous than others. I say this because, in general, we all have to descend to TPA and we all fly into an airport from all angles (unless there are obstacles that limit the approach to an airport). So your points of flying against the traffic and descending to TPA are dangerous then applies to other scenarios too. Does this mean that there are other approaches equally as dangerous? The key point in my mind is: In general, how far away from the airport does one start descending into TPA and join the traffic pattern for landing. This could then apply to the right tear drop into left downwind scenario because if this tear drop is done far enough then it becomes a 45 entry into downwind. If I got wrong the point you are trying to make, please elaborate further so I can understand better. Thanks
@leCause-DanGryder Yes, I watched twice and try to understand your point. But I don't think you understand what I am trying to ask you to consider. Let me ask you this... how far away from the airport does one need to be at TPA to enter into traffic patter? 3 miles away? 5 miles away? 1 mile away?
@@tonyl9051 Keep it up sir! I agree with you 100% and apparently the FAA handbooks do as well. Not sure why Dan wants to avoid these two points. He does mean well....but these two points need direct attention in his videos before two many folks are deeply confused.
I was taught it although at first I wasn’t told it was the “right teardrop.” Been told to fly 1,000 above traffic pattern that way you avoid turbine. Then you start descending far enough away from the airport that you will join the 45 to left downwind.
Interesting timing on this. I’m an airline pilot that just last week went to sporty’s to get checked out on a 172. The instructor advised me that the FAA has recently changed their recommendation for pattern entry and we did just this. In our particular situation, we encountered a bonanza on the downwind and the teardrop was appropriate. A few days later I was getting checked out on another school’s 172 and we used foreflight. It recommended the same entry, but a military helicopter prevented this and we just made the decision to make an overhead entry to the downwind. It all worked out, but only because all parties were talking on Unicom. Curious to see how this develops.
I'm pretty sure the "teardrop" turn to the 45 line was recommended in my ground school materials from 2000. It saved progress on a 3½" floppy disk, that's how long ago that was. I don't think this is a new thing at all. I _think_ it was called "Cleared for Flight" but I'm not sure now.
Teardrop maneuver is found in the AC-90-C . I am not sure why this is such a complicated subject. The description for the right teardrop entry into the left downwind comes for Advisory Circular AC-90-C Non-towered Airport Flight Operations. This advisory circular was published in 2019 and the requirement is to go beyond the traffic pattern by a minimum of 2 miles. I live at a non-towered airport and if I were to enter the traffic pattern , I would stay well clear of the traffic pattern to enter with the ability to see other traffic in the pattern at the same altitude. If you are entering the downwind it should be well away from the traffic pattern . it males perfect sense as a common way to enter a pattern from overhead.
The most important magazines I ever read was flying mag and soaring mag. Articles were always best of the best. I can see where teardrop has some merit. But so does the 360 overhead. In 360 overhead you can scan the final approach, the base leg, the downwind leg and the departures. Then make your left turn to enter downwind.
Instructing for JAL, ANA, Lufthansa 2007-18 we utilized an entry maneuver that worked extremely well. Generally (in a Bonanza slowed to 120K), overfly midfield at TPA +1000', begin descent (500 fpm) after 30 sec., after one min. arrive at TPA 2 miles from field, turn to landing heading parallel to runway, fly additional one min., turn 135 degrees to enter downwind 45 degrees at TPA approx. 2+ miles from field. Communicate every position, keep head on a swivel, no problem, works all day. Not a "teardrop".
A 500 fpm decent for one minute from TPA +1000 would being you down to only 1500' agl, but this is generally how I approach and enter the pattern from the opposite side of the preferred traffic flow. Gives me the opportunity to check the field/windsock while also getting a good look & feel for traffic in or entering the pattern from any direction before I maneuver into the downwind from a 45 making my decent and turns well clear of the field and any potential traffic at turbine or regular pattern altitudes. Good stuff, Dan!
Dan, I’m not sure why you are calling this “new”. It certainly is not new nor is it a ForeFlight thing. I’ve been a CFI for nearly 25 years and it has always been the recommended entry procedure for as long as I can remember when entering the pattern from opposite the downwind leg. See AC 90-66C and the Airplane Flying Handbook (figure 8.3). They don’t call it a teardrop, but that is exactly what is depicted. With that said, I never fly or teach that entry procedure. It is rife with potential conflicts - especially if you descend while making that turn and/or as you enter downwind - and in my opinion makes absolutely no sense. The FAA has FINALLY acknowledged (in version C of AC 90-66) that a mid field crosswind with a turn to downwind is now “acceptable”. That is what I teach and to do so with all legs - including the crosswind leg - AT pattern altitude. Not 500’ high. So, again, it is an FAA thing and did not originate with ForeFlight.
Dan, please consider using a tablet for ADSB-In. Flying with a friend that recently started using it we were both amazed at the amount of traffic around us that we had been looking for, but didn't see. Foremost were the aircraft near or in the pattern that never made a position report. That was terrifying.
Good grief, the last thing we need is a bunch of low time pilots in the traffic pattern staring at computer screens. Its VFR in the pattern. VFR. We need Duane Cole back among the living. He would be aghast at this.
@@Aeronca11 Here we go again pilots exaggerating other pilots staring at their ForeFlight. First of all, a large amount of pilots are using ForeFlight with Bluetooth iPads and Bose A20 Bluetooth headsets. I hear a synthetic voice telling me things like "Traffic 2 o'clock same altitude " all day long in and out of the pattern without ever looking at my iPad -- it has been a life saver. Secondly, even when I'm 10 miles out, on ForeFlight with ADS-B Traffic turned on, I begin to see all the planes converging and planes in the pattern, then I start to correlate their movements with the CTAF calls -- so when I'm constantly scanning out the windshield for traffic, I already have a supplemental picture of what's going on. Please stop this foolish accusation of "Flying the Pattern by ForeFlight Magenta Line". This isn't being taught and student pilots are not doing this.
I'm surprised this is even a question. I cross The runway at midfield and make a right teardrop entry to the left downwind. Just like I would make a left teardrop entry to a right hand pattern. And as I was taught, I'm also 500 ft above the pattern altitude when crossing midfield. What's hard about this? 🤷🏿♂️🤦🏿♂️
Dan, Your wrong. You haven't read the AC and you are don't seem to understand that the descent and right turn are done AT LEAST 2 MILE OUTSIDE THE TRAFFIC PATTERN , not centerline of the airport. The simple fix is ACTUALLY READ THE ADVISORY CIRCULAR. AC-90-C I live at a residential airport and Non towered airport operation needs a consistent traffic pattern entry. the advisory circular the diagrams and the description suggest flying above the traffic pattern (plus1000' not 500' makes sense ) and not begin the teardrop descent until at least 2 miles beyond the traffic pattern . flying 2 miles from the centerline is a mis- interpretation of the AC. AC 90-C. Not that complicated. The maneuver is not the fault of Foreflight
I flew the right teardrop to descend and turn around to enter the left downwind a couple times recently at a busy uncontrolled. It gave me a great view of the traffic and allowed me to communicate and work into the pattern with good spacing.
I also used your advice to engage a couple pilots in the pattern to figure out their intentions. One was a Bonanza approaching the pattern at high speed. The other was an Icon ahead of me at very slow speed.
While in a practice area a CFI was making snappy position reports that lacked usable detail for anyone other than himself. I was nearby so I engaged him for more clarity as to his location. He said I was to his right. 😂 I asked for a direction and gave my position relative to a major highway and a town. I never figured out where they were so I left the area. They were from a flight school with low time CFI's and G1000 Skyhawks. I was in a 152 with no traffic display.
HUGE liability for Foreflight. Even if they take their teardrop pattern away a few miles, the still have not flown and tested those teardrops for obstacle clearance the way IFR holding patterns are.
This occurs 10-20x a day at S50 Auburn, and it's very tight up against the Class B. It's only a matter of time before 2 planes come together there doing this maneuver.
I just used the measuring tool and the right hand turn of this advisory teardrop pattern in FF shows up starting at 2.2nm from the airport center point.
The procedure specifies flying 2 miles beyond the pattern (about 3 miles from the runway) before beginning the descent. The turn does not commence until reaching pattern altitude - - four or more miles from the airport.
Thank you for blessing us with your beautiful presence on this Sunday morning. I could get used to this. It’s tough for an old man like to stay up to 10pm on Sunday to get my weekly dose while having to get up from work at 3:30am. Either way, I’m not going anywhere and am happy to get this content at any time. Keep it up Dan, we all love your work and are looking forward to the live tonight. 🙏🏼
Now, DAN, here’s a kicker. Every time I’ve ever entered airport area that had a tower which was in operation, I was always instructed to enter a right downwind, or a left downwind for runway such and such. The tower never told me make a 45 to enter the downwind. I could be heading directly towards the airport say from the south, they are using runway 18, I am told to enter a left downwind for 18 and I am a mile or two from the airport. Usually I just fly towards the right to put the runway on my left side and enter a downwind straight on. Tower has no problem with those kind of entries. Not saying to do that in an uncontrolled airport, but my point is tower doesn’t really specify how to enter the pattern they want you to fly.
There are several ways to enter the pattern if the arrival occurs on the upwind leg side of the airport. One method of entry from the opposite side of the pattern is to announce intentions and cross over midfield at least 500 feet above pattern altitude (normally 1,500 feet AGL). However, if large or turbine aircraft operate at the airport, it is best to remain 2,000 feet AGL so as not to conflict with their traffic pattern. When well clear of the pattern-approximately 2 miles-the pilot should scan carefully for traffic, descend to pattern altitude, then turn right to enter at 45° to the downwind leg at midfield. [Figure 8-3A] An alternate method is to enter on a midfield crosswind at pattern altitude, carefully scan for traffic, announce intentions, and then turn downwind. [Figure 8-3B] This technique should not be used if the pattern is busy.
Great video, I've been frequenting uncontrolled airports lately and found this trend to be growing (I've been guilty of adopting it for a short period). AC 90-66B clearly states two entries from across the field... 1) cross midfield at least 500 above pattern altitude decent to pattern altitude and then turn to enter on the 45 to downwind or 2) cross midfield at patter altitude and enter downwind on a 45 degree entry. No more "teardrops" for me.
i was taught the teardrop entry during primary training before my first solo, in 2001...as well as the 45 degree entry from 3-4 miles away. I always preferred the 45 simply because it scared me knowing I was going directly into the turbine downwind. Foreflight is great as a helper, but should never be used as a primary.
This video is an excellent example of the mission of your channel. Not presented in a hair-on-fire manner (especially difficult for guys who have the hairline that you and I do) but in a way that encourages pilots to ask the question, “Is this really a safe idea?”
I heard someone the other day calling out that they were doing a 'spiraling descent to join the left base', I called them out on on it and asked them why don't you just cross mid field and join the down wind, they answered back, that they were on a checkride and it was for a maneuver.
@@DWBurns YEs its a commercial or cfi check ride maneuver for a spiraling decent, There goal is to descend directly over a point and level off on a heading at an altitude that will allow for a power off 180 approach. I have had to practice it and perform it. The major difficulty is having an airport with such low traffic that this is possible. Its best done after all the flight schools are done for the evening or before they wake up.
This was very helpful because I’ve done this kind of descent-usually a mile beyond downwind-but on further thought you guys are right, I’m still too close since some folks fly very wide patterns. I will revise my practice. Thanks. By the way I don’t love it when folks cross the runway at a 90 then turn immediately onto downwind. I know Dan you said it’s legal and certainly it’s expedient but it’s out-of-the-ordinary at my field. Predictable maneuvers increase the chance folks will see each other in my view. If two 45s (same airplane cateory) merge for a left downwind, me doing the traditional entry, does the guy on my left (the guy who crossed the runway and is entering from “inside” of downwind) know that I have the right of way under 91.113? I bet not. And where is he going to go even if he knows I have the right of way? Probably he should climb up and over/out the pattern and start over or maybe do a left 360 over the runway but that could have him turning through final if he delays and also doesn’t climb…
Just by using the term teardrop, it make it feel like you're cleared to make that turn, like you do in a holding pattern. I suspect people are lulled into thinking you can just make that turn without looking. It needs to be drilled in that unless fully tower controlled, you're in the wild west and you need to look. Get away from the pattern. 5 miles.
Nothing in VFR is called a teardrop, also the AFM suggests this. Go to any busy airport and you’d be crazy not to do this. Try flying into a pattern with 5 people in the pattern and 2 people shooting approaches from opposite directions and doing a pattern altitude entry into the downwind from midfield smh. Overflying 1000 above pattern going out 3-4 miles and turning for the 45 is by far the safest way to enter a busy pattern.
Yes, but if you overfly at ‘500 and make your descending right turn without a few miles established wings level on the 45 then you’re both unsafe and illegal.
My instructor told me about that and showed to me but said she doesn’t recommend it but if for some reason I’d what to do something like that don’t start the right turn until I’m at least 4 miles from the airport and make sure I know the height of the terrain in the area
Teardrops looked cool in magenta on a holding pattern depiction in the cockpits of of the 757s and 737 NGs i flew, but i get a little queasy when i think of low time pilots with their heads buried in the cockpit trying to set up an entry onto a visual traffic pattern downwind. Whatever happened to the "visual" in VISUAL Flight Rules? It's pretty hard to "see and avoid" when the "seeing" is focused on a tablet or a laptop sitting on one's lap!
Thanks for this video Dan, could you expand on a 45 degree entry from either side of the downwind? Sounds like the same dangerous situation of possibly entering the pattern head on of traffic on the upwind leg. Thanks again.
Just watched this myself, and he probably could have worded that better. I believe he meant that you don’t have to cross midfield and do a right teardrop, but you can just cross midfield at traffic pattern altitude and make the left turn into the left downwind, assuming you have proper spacing.
@@PilotProjectDylanGryderI consider this very dangerous with head-to-head conflict with planes entering on the 45. Add a low sun angle and its a practice one shouldn't do, but expect brain dead pilots to do it on you.
Former UK pilot here. I remember being taught to join deadside (either at circuit height or descending from the overhead), crosswind at circuit height over the departure end numbers, downwind, and base...... all going with the direction of the traffic pattern. Why is this teardrop malarkey even needed?
Discussing Busts of rules, the manuals ALLOW for crossing midfield above patter and a left turn to left downwind..... It doesn't say descend down to patten altitude but if you plan to land from that left downwind you absolutely need to descend into pattern altitude.... so the FAA's own guidance is to bust the rule of entering the pattern AT pattern altitude.
I just planned a flight using Foreflight and included this midfield crossing entry pattern. The flight path displayed correctly shows establishing on the 45 prior to entering downwind. I don’t see reason to blame ForeFlight for pilot error in not flying the entry correctly.
At uncontrolled airports, I routinely cross midfield at TPA for the right or left downwind depending on where I'm approaching the airport from. This, or entering on a standard 45 at TPA. I never deviate from these two pattern approaches. I'm guessing 95% of pilots have no idea what the teardrop pattern is, making it impossible for them to visualize or visually spot where the other traffic is in the airport vicinity. I'm with you guys, the so-called teardrop pattern should not be encouraged. Seeing and being seen is top priority.
The descending turn comes form the EU . Actually UK at most. You over fly the field above the trafic , over the field start the decent in a circle to join the down wind. Note : The word teardrop is not used as visual flying does not have any protocols using that. Circle right and Circe left etc is normal. Obviously this if you have to cross the field to enter that down wind. This only if there is only a traffic advisory or non. But some ATC organised fields use something similar turn but you have to report entry positions.
If you're approaching an airport on the upwind side, why not do a 45 deg. right entry at pattern altitude into the UPwind leg of the pattern, then crosswind turn to downwind?
Hey Guys... this must be a west coast thing. I've been using this terminology since I started flying in 1967... it has never caused me a problem. I started flying out of Burbank, Ca. at Sky Roamers and flew all over SoCal...
The airman’s information manual on page 8.5 shows this exact entry. I have been a CFI for 20 years and I’ve been teaching it for 20 years. You are supposed to enter the downwind from a 45° leg. The teardrop is the best way to get you in position to enter the pattern on a 45° angle. Seems like you are trying to fix something that isn’t broken. I believe as an over 20 years CFI and an airline this is safer than all the other craziness is happening in the pattern. I agree with most of your AQP but seem you are trying to fix what is safe practice if done properly.
If I'm on the 45 degree entry, someone doing a right teardrop will point directly at me, and will be left wing up (unable to see me). This is a bad conflict. If the manual says this is allowed, the manual isn't safe.
@@ProbableCause-DanGryderWhat you kept showing in your video was NOT a teardrop to a 45, even though that's what you kept calling it. It was a 270 directly into the downwind.
If done PROPERLY you will never be looking at someone in the downwind. The BIGGER problem is pilots and instructor flying enormous traffic patterns. Most GA airplanes should be in the downwind less than 1 mile from the centerline of the runway. If you go out two or more miles from the centerline, then start a descending right turn, you’ll be outside the traffic pattern and entering the traffic pattern on a 45° angle like everybody wants..
My flight instructor taught me last year to overfly midfield 500ft above pattern altitude then do a right descending teardrop into the downwind. Shortly after getting my PPL last November I was talking to a different instructor about it. He instantly alerted me and retrained me to cross midfield at pattern altitude and enter downwind with a left turn. He scared the crap out of me when he said a right turn teardrop puts me head on with the bigger planes on their downwind pattern that are at that higher altitude. I've been telling everyone I meet about this DANGEROUS manuever. The worse thing about it is its being taught to us unexperienced students who are unknowing.
Dan, here in AZ that Lear (or any jet) will just be calling a 5 mile straight in (UNICOM field), good luck stopping that nonsense. Also, any UNICOM field you are ATC and need to use all of your senses (this includes ADS-B and the radio) to gather what traffic is happening and adjust accordingly. Your scenario is exactly what happens for pilots flying from PHX area to Sedona, you overhead at 6300msa (4800+1000+500) then turn around over town of Sedona to enter the Left Downwind for 03 (usual landing runway). If its a nice day you had better be prepared for anything, as departing aircraft are on 21 (downhill) and jets/turboprops/cirrus just call the 5 mile final... oh and there's helicopters too. Get a picture of the inbound and outbound traffic in your head, use the radio, and adjust your flying to fit in. A one-size-fits-all approach just won't work every time. We've had to circle above Sedona a few laps to let things "clear out" to get a clean pattern to land.
As a corporate pilot, I have heard this entry being communicated to a few of the airports that we go to. I have never heard of this maneuver and I sure do not support it. I have been a flight instructor for over 30 years, but I am not an active flight instructor.
As legal as left teardrop to the right downwind. Great maneuver to enter the traffic pattern IF done properly. Less of a fan of crossing the field at pattern altitude and turning right or left and joining the downwind. That’s also in the AIM I believe.
Check out Airplane Flying Handbook. Figure 8-3. This depicts the “teardrop entry” at two miles from 500 ft above pattern. I think that’s not enough space from the field and you need to be wings level for a bit before entering the pattern. Left closed traffic doing touch and goes will just be getting stable on downwind if you are still rolling out midfield as this depicts and you won’t see the conflict until too late.
Question… I was trained to overfly and go outside the pattern and teardrop down to pattern altitude and enter the downwind on the 45 but more and more I’m seeing people just cut through the pattern at pattern altitude and just join the downwind…. Is that an acceptable practice now?
@@ProbableCause-DanGryderI had a rather heated discussion with a few guys who insisted that I was being ridiculous to suggest that I’m going to have a problem with someone cutting through a pattern that I’m in as though everybody but me is doing it
I have been flying for 49 years and five months. I am working on my 12th jet rating. I have been an instructor since 1977. "A Tear Drop Entry to a Downwind" is... thoughtless. Over flying the airfield? Way above the airfield? Doing a descending turn taking miles of airspace? Near the most crowded airspace? Whatever. Millions of variables, perhaps, that is somewhere, on occasion, a good idea. I can give you a LOT of examples where it is not appropriate. But, if that is how you want to enter the patter, fine. Just don't clutter up the radio broadcasting that on the radio. There is simply no way ANYBODY can figure out where you are. Please, just say, West, East, North or South of the runway, so we can "look" for the traffic and avoid conflicts.
If I'm understanding both of you correctly, you recommend crossing the field perpendicular at least 500' above TPA, then going out perpendicular from the runway X nm before you turn either way left or right and descend to TPA then enter the downwind at a 45 degree angle all while announcing your maneuvers on CTAF. BUT, how far is X nm? How far is "you better be a long way away from the airport if you're going to make a right descending turn?" 4 nm? 5 nm?
If this video were made with reference to FAA Advisory Circular 90-66B, noting that AC 90-66B was not referenced in the video, it would have been a short video and due to both speakers concern about the use of the "teardrop" term, they would have just stated that ForeFlight should change their traffic pattern terminology as follows: 1) Change "Cross Midfield, Teardrop" to "Cross Midfield, Preferred Entry" and 2) Change "Cross Midfield, Direct" to "Cross Midfield, Alternate Entry." I don't think the terminology matters much in foreflight as their diagrams exactly depict the type of entry being selected. However, a perfectly reasonable topic could have been "Safety Risks of improper execution of the FAA Preferred Entry When Crossing Over Midfield (aka, teardrop entry)," the main points being a) crossing over midfield 500 feet higher than pattern altitude (noting of course that one needs to be aware that multiple pattern altitude exist based on plane type) and b) most critically, per the concerns stated in the video and a fact that was reinforced by both speakers, to fly "Clear" of the traffic pattern (approx. 2 miles). If parts a) and b) are performed properly, then this just has the effect of setting the plane up for the normal 45 degree entry into the pattern. Also, the "teardrop" route ForeFlight adds to the map does properly depict the 2 mile excursion beyond the pattern. So, I would think that "right teardrop to the left downwind" is both FAA legal and preferred if done properly, even if the ForeFlight assigned name is concerning. See pattern image here: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Entering_traffic_pattern_-_Preferred_Entry-Crossing_Midfield.png
Yes. It’s just not being done properly and now we have created a turbine/piston mid air at 1500 AGL. We might as well cross at 1000 and hit the lighter weight non turbine given the two choices.
Yes, but the overhead join in the UK is in my opinion not safe as well. Overflying/crossing the end of the active runway is strange, especially when you have an aircraft going-around and climbing into the crossing aircraft.www.modularpilot.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/standard-overhead-join.jpg
Yes, that is what makes the most sense. When joining from the dead side or inactive side to join the crosswind, you have the whole runway visible and can see any aircraft taking off or that just turned crosswind so you have more of a visual cue as to what aircraft are in front of you in the circuit.
@@paulusheystee5051 Not normally a problem UK, our runways are short, like 3000 feet is a long runway. Most aircraft taking off are below circuit height upwind. Might be odd microlight that climbs steeply.
Conflict occurs if pilot goes wide crosswind and not cross the upwind end of runway. Been doing these joins and teaching 45 years now. Can't remember there being any recorded collisions.
The legal department of ForeFlight better take this to heart. I see a lawsuit on the horizon by the family of a pilot killed by some magenta line driver entering the pattern with that tear drop maneuver. Dan, why don’t you reach out to ForeFlight and let them know about the illegality of that right turn so close to the airport? Before it’s too late.
Simple google search shows FAA statement ? What say you?The "teardrop" is a way to get across the field and turned around in order to join the pattern on a 45. If you were already on that side, it would just be a 45. Recently the FAA started recommending cross midfield at pattern altitude and joining the downwind directly with a 45 on the other side.Mar 5, 2022
Pattern Entry Clarification Section 11.3 of the AC clarifies traffic pattern entry procedures. Unlike previous guidance, the FAA has expanded their guidance for entering the pattern when you're crossing over midfield. The preferred method is the "midfield overhead teardrop entry" (left diagram), and the second option is then "alternate midfield entry" (right diagram). If you're crossing midfield to get to the downwind leg, the FAA recommends that you cross pattern altitude at 500+ above pattern, fly clear of the traffic pattern (approx 2 miles), and then descend to pattern altitude and make a teardrop entry to the midfield downwind. www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_90-66B.pdf
What about instead of crossing over the field and doing the right teardrop to the left down wind just enter midfield left crosswind at pattern altitude.
Read the Advisory Circular on Non Towered Airport Operations. AC-90-C The manner is meant to be done 2 miles or more beyond , outside, past the traffic pattern , not into the traffic pattern.
This maneuver is clearly depicted in the Airplane Flying Handbook Chapter 8, page 8-5 figure 8-3. You are right that the FAA doesn't name this maneuver, but they do describe it and by not giving it a name, the FAA are the ones that left it open for someone else to label it.
@@ProbableCause-DanGryder Just to be clear, I agree that this is dangerous and the 45 is safer. We have a lot of small jets coming into our airport and they are all +500 our pattern altitude. Recipe for disaster. Thanks for what you do and as a CFI myself I will make sure all of my students are educated on this subject.
Totally agree Dan! You are a gentleman and a scholar! Has to be the most idiotic entry ever conceived...nowadays people have LOST ALL COMMON SENSE OR NEVER HAD IT FROM THE BEGINNING! Stop looking at your devices and LOOK OUT THE WINDOW...want to do a teardrop entry for the love of God please please overfly the airport 500' above and travel MANY miles out and enter the 45 like all the normal and competent pilots....
I have signed off a lot of students for their practical exam. I can tell you every DPE expects you to follow the procedures outlined in the Airman Information Manual for proper entry to the traffic pattern. Including a “teardrop entry”.
How about, when entering from the opposite side, entering at pattern altitude, on crosswind, 1/4-1/2 upwind of the departure end of the RWY? You’d be above departing traffic, on the level with downwind traffic.
In Canada we cross over midfield 500 ft above circuit altitude and descend left hand turn on the dead side to cross back over midfield at circuit altitude and joining a mid downwind. Seems to work ok here.
Thanks for this video. Like you, I had never heard of this "maneuver" before until I was making a short flight from I68 to I69. I recently started flying my Thorp T-18 (in August 2023) and have started to expand my flights to nearby airports. I thought the short flight over to Clermont County would make for a nice little flight. As soon as I turned to the CTAF, I heard call after call of "right teardrop entry to a left downwind to 04." I thought "what the heck is that?" My ADSB-in showed a beehive of activity at I69, and at about 10 nm out, I decided to abort that flight and head back. When I got back, I looked it up and saw what it meant. It doesn't make sense to me and I'm glad to know I'm not alone.
FAR 91.126: Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in Class G airspace. "Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the left" A right "teardrop" to the downwind would seem to be contrary to the FARs.
Left turns for "approaching to land" aircraft. If you're doing the overhead flying +500 then flying 2nm out descending then coming back 45 degrees, it's technically not in the approaching to land phase therefore not breaking any regs.
@NoahHeadglitch No…if you’re with 2 nm and doing right descending turn for the teardrop pattern entry then you “are” 1) approaching to land and, 2) in the vicinity.
@@ProbableCause-DanGryder I didn’t mention a descending turn. Fly out 2nm THEN descend to tpa then turn back. There was supposed to be a comma before descending on my end. What would be your definition of approach to landing and airport vicinity? I think the faa leaves these up for interpretation a bit too much.
In the UK we do overhead joins. You never decent on the live side of the airport. Overhead join has you decend "deadside" i.e. the side where the downwind is not.
Check out FAA AC 90-66B, paragraph 11.4. It shows a right "tear drop" entry to a left downwind. It does recommend to come over the airport at pattern altitude, but I don't like that either. With the traffic we have in the Tucson - Phoenix corridor, you'd be asking for trouble. I would recommend, when coming in from the opposite side of the downwind, you should go out a good distance on the crosswind, make a left turn on an extended downwind, or a 45 to the downwind.
Foreflight is a wonderful product, you’re missing out. I’m sure you can find someone to share an iPad with you and once you try it you’ll be convinced. It’s a small investment in comparison to the cost of flying…..
Dear Dan,
Ref: ua-cam.com/video/b6Y8GuUQlUQ/v-deo.html: Right Teardrop to the Left Downwind. Legal or Illegal?
Thank you for this most important subject. I presented an argument against this dangerous and illegal maneuver at a FAASTEAM at Broward College just last month.
I fly in South Florida, arguable one of the two busiest spots on Earth. In my two decades of flying here I have had only two close calls from other aircraft, and they involved this. I was doing pattern work in a Seminole at KOBE and another instructor from further north entered the pattern in a Piper using this method. We were windshield to windshield on two different days.
FAR §157.2 for airport planning states, "Traffic pattern means the traffic flow that is prescribed for aircraft landing or taking off from an airport, including departure and arrival procedures utilized within a 5-mile radius of the airport for ingress, egress, and noise abatement." In other words, once you are within the airport operational area, you are part of the "traffic pattern." The airport operational area is 5 statute miles unless otherwise noted and therefore, it makes no difference whether a control tower is operating or not.
"Airport Vicinity" has its own specific definition; see above sentence. The ICAO "Aeronautical Information Publication" - AIP GEN 2.2-13: "In the Vicinity: An aircraft is in the vicinity of a non-towered aerodrome if it is within a horizontal distance of 10 miles; and within a height above the aerodrome reference point that could result in conflict with operations at the aerodrome." 11 July 2008. This definition is backed up by the Aerodrome Meteorological Observation and Forecast Study Group of ICAO, AMOFSG/8-SN No. 23, 21 January 2009. §170.3(1): Local operations, is even more restrictive; (?) "… within a 20-mile radius of the airport; … ." Canada is not as restrictive with a note under 'Aerodrome traffic' "In this sense an aircraft is considered to be in the vicinity of an aerodrome when it is entering or leaving an aerodrome traffic circuit (5 nm's)." Finally, 7-1-29b8(b) "Proximity applies to and reported only for weather occurring in the vicinity of the airport (between 5 and 10 miles of the point(s) of observation)." The conclusion is that anything less than 5 statute miles is too close for this maneuver! §§91.126 & 91.127 seems to imply 4nm. Also see 4-1-9c1&2.
AC 90-66B, Change 1: "Non-Towered Airport Flight Operations," 11.2, dated 25 February 2019 clearly says to "[F]ly clear of [the] traffic pattern (approx.. 2 mi.)"; that's 2 mi past the traffic pattern, not the runway.
But why do all this? Why not do what the older Flying Handbooks advised us to do and that was join any of the traffic pattern legs either directly or on the 45°. So I advise my students to join the Upwind leg, turn to the Crosswind after the departure end of the runway and continue as if you had executed a go-a-round.
Aviationally yours, Bob.
That entry is the recommended procedure per Airplane Flying Handbook (FAA-H-8083-3C)
Chapter 8: Airport Traffic Patterns.
I was taught the same thing, to overfly field, look at windsock, fly out, and make a right turn for the 45. "Teardrop" wasnt used. It was understood you went out far enough to give yourself a straight 45 segment, otherwise you'd run into the other pilots 45 segment.
This. This right here is the smart and correct way. Nobody's "teardropping" or dropping in any way to a downwind. One is turning right and decending (or "dropping") into a 45, which is the correct and safe way to enter a pattern. Folks that get wrapped around the axle about making a right turn fail to understand the left turn rule is for PATTERNS. The approach and entry are NOT part of the pattern.
Read the Advisory Circular 90-C. The descent and right turn are done well beyond the left downwind.
For those of us that understand High Key, Low Key for SFO , I don't see the confusion.
@@javadocF16 I believe that is exactly what he/she is saying by "fly out" then make the turn/decent for the 45. 2 miles is what is depicted on AC90-66C, appA.
You mean descending to the 45, not the downwind.
I was taught the same thing, for my PPL back in 2002. I don’t remember the instructor ever stressing “flying out beyond the downwind”. Pretty much start the teardrop maybe 1/2mile from the centerline.
This teardrop entry is not new. When I learned to fly in 1972, I was instructed to do this: When approaching land at and uncontrolled airport, fly over the airport at midfield, 1000' above pattern altitude (which was 800' AGL at that time), observe the windsock, then make a descending teardrop turn into the traffic pattern. On my first unsupervised solo flight, I went to our local practice field to practice landings. Unbeknownst to me, that field was also used by the University of California at Davis skydiving club. I flew over midfield at an altitude that happened to be the level at which skydivers deploy their parachutes. Two chutes opened about 500 yards ahead of me. Using the superior skills I had developed during my vast dozen flight hours, I cranked that Cessna 150 into an aerobatic steep bank and returned to base for a change of underwear and a chat with my flight instructor.
A few weeks later I became a DPE. During that intervening time, the teardrop entry became thankfully uncommon. At our annual mandatory choir practice with the FAA, the FSDO inspector railed on the examiners to use our influence our influence to stomp out teardrop entry wherever it reared its ugly head. At one airport in the Houston area where I commonly conducted practical tests, I would encounter applicants who would employ the teardrop entry. I would not fail them for using it, but we would have an in-depth post-checkride discussion about it.
Incidentally, I ran and airport where skydiving operations were regularly conducted. Advising transient pilots against crossing midfield was a never-ending task.
I knew that choir practice was not optional.
Enter on crosswind, at patten altitude. That complies with the letter of 14 CFR 91.126, avoids the dangerous practices of crossing midfield and descending into the pattern.
@@garygandy2615 I see a lot more midfield cross and left teardrop into downwind than I hear anyone mentioning upwind for crosswind to downwind. It always feels 'weird' to me to enter upwind because no one else appears to be in that airspace.
I was taught in the early 80s to cross the airfield 500' above, then enter the 45 dw leg. Been doin that way ever since. Never had any conflicts that I can remember.
I think Dan is making it more complicated than it is.
@mikestanzel1192 No. I’m tired of being head on with these idiots following their iPads!
@@ProbableCause-DanGryder Being aware of all the traffic and communicating your position at un-towered fields is something you’ve advocated for in other videos. It’s a basic fundamental of flying. Anyone who is following their iPad without announcing their position or looking out the windscreen is going to have problems however they enter the pattern.
@@mikestanzel1192 No, I have not advocated for communicating your position! Announcing your position is not communication! Right now you and I are communicating. We go back and forth. Big difference. ATC uses communication. Pilots at non- towered fields should do the same.
@@ProbableCause-DanGryderIt's a start of the communication process. If Lear Jet N567 announces he is on a long downwind on 35 left the guy crossing midfield to enter the pattern, either by circling and using the 45 or hanging a left at altitude can be on the look out. The pattern is so slow at our field with 152's and 172's he would be much wiser to just land straight in on the final. That is what usually happens and the pilots doing the straight in are talking a lot. I've had problems with a Seminole being too fast.. That being said pilots are always talking to each other here," there is an eagle or a herd of deer hanging around"," I don't see you", "how far out are you?" etc. P.S. Flying a DC3 is on my bucket list!
Page 8-5 of the FAA Airplane Flying Handbook does have a diagram illustrating this maneuver, with the following commentary:
"One method of entry from the opposite side of the pattern is to announce intentions and cross over midfield at least 500 feet above pattern altitude (normally 1,500
feet AGL). However, if large or turbine aircraft operate at the airport, it is best to remain 2,000 feet AGL so as not to conflict with their traffic pattern. When well clear of the pattern-approximately 2 miles-the pilot should scan carefully for traffic, descend to pattern altitude, then turn right to enter at 45° to the downwind leg at midfield. [Figure 8-3A] An alternate method is to enter on a
midfield crosswind at pattern altitude, carefully scan for traffic, announce intentions, and then turn downwind. [Figure 8-3B] This
technique should not be used if the pattern is busy."
The midfield to downwind option is new with version C of this Advisory Circular. The FAA finally acknowledged the right way to do it. 😃
@@TheAirplaneDriver it’s a terrible practice that opens the door to a head on collision at mid-field. I would never advocate the direct from over the runway to downwind. Remember that no radio aircraft are still around and legal, not to mention non ADS-B classic planes.
@@Aeronca11 Sorry, I don’t agree. It is essentially no different than turning crosswind after departure to enter the downwind….say as in closed pattern work. As you approach the runway you have a clear view of everyone in the pattern and until you make the turn to downwind, wings are level and there are no visual obstructions from the wings and you are not climbing or descending. It has nothing to do with radios or ADSB. I am curious how you enter the pattern from opposite the downwind leg?
@planeDriverWell, I disagree. 1. You don't have a clear view of the pattern under your nose and the focus of all the other planes is on the runway and getting the plane configured for landing. Add sun angles into the mix too. I enter the pattern by approaching the airport on a broad circle outside of the area to prepare to enter the 45, listening to get the flow and also eyeballs out to watch for non-radio traffic and non ADS-B traffic. This only takes another minute or two and it doesn't say I'm entitled to the pattern. It's a safe and polite way to follow the pattern. One follows the flow, 45 to downwind. Or crosswind if you remain in the pattern.
This is a new system of direct opposite 45 entry that only has a FAA mention recently. I looked up the flight training manuals from the 1980s when I got the license, and there is absolutely no mention of the crossing over the runway to get directly into the pattern. The FAA is doing something here that the ATC wouldn't do. Setting up a pattern with two planes coming head on at mid-field, should one be on the 45 and this crossing the field at pattern altitude for a direct entry. I firmly believe that a traffic pattern with this methodology is more dangerous, not less. One has to assume all things are working in your favor to do it. I don't.
I think some of the TPA Crosswind-to-Left Turn-to-Downwind pilots in this debate think everyone is on a Left Downwind. Your point about aircraft coming directly at you at TPA on the 45 degree entry is being swept under the rug.
It's illustrated in the FAA Airplane Flying Handbook, yeah I had to look it up myself as I had never heard of it till a new cfi at the home airport started doing it and non of us old timers knew what the heck he was doing.
Which is to say that the pilot factories are running the rules, not tried and true time tested methods.
I’ve often used this entry at my old pilot controlled airport. At the end of my descending teardrop I would enter on the 45. I guess what you are saying is if you do this, it should be 4 miles away and enter the 45 at the PA to be safe.
Yes.
Tear drop into downwind is from the faa flying handbook page 8-5 and figure 8-3 in the latest update. While the faa flying handbook doesn’t use the word teardrop, their figure is the same pattern that ForeFlight gives, a teardrop. The faa says this is the preferred method to enter a pattern when approaching the airport from the upwind side. I think this FAA method needs further analysis and development. Although foreflight may have used the word, teardrop, the FAA invented the pattern.
The same FAA that approved MCAS on the 737…
Current student pilot. The teardrop I have been taught doesn't replace the 45, it is just a precursor to get you to the 2 mile 45 from the opposite side. However, we seem to overfly the runway at 1500AGL during this manoeuvre. It should probably be updated to 2000ft above to avoid conflicting traffic as there are jets and large props.
All my instructors taught me the descending teardrop pattern entry as a safe maneuver. (They are all Foreflight user's. As am I.) I have done it a few times. I will never do it again. I will start discussing the topic too. Thanks Dan...
Please... Dont stop doing Teardrop enteries. Fly far enough out and then make your turn. Keep your eyes outside and be vigiliant of traffic well before starting the manuever do your right turn and enter the downwind on the 45 degree entry.
If you are descending into the pattern, you are doing it wrong. You should enter the pattern on a 45° angle to the downwind. The teardrop gets you in a position to enter the pattern at a 45° angle on altitude.
And your opinion, how far laterally from the pattern would you feel it would be safe to send down to pattern altitude?
Thinks about it. If you were coming from 10 miles out set up on the 45 when would you descend. Probably so you are at pattern altitude when you enter the pattern or right at the end of the 45 when you enter downwind. I typically teach to go AT LEAST 2 miles from the centerline AT LEAST 500 above pattern altitude. Then start you descending right turn.. so you are on about a 1-2 mile 45 degree leg BEFORE entering the pattern. That way you can make all turns to the left IN the pattern.
@@JavierBrent thank you for your response. As far as I’m concerned, the pattern ““ is about a half mile away from the runway in the Cessna 172. At a non-towered airport all other areas from a Cessna standpoint is fair gain, climbing, descending or what have you. I know my designated examiner will have a long talk with one of my Pilot applicants, if they descend into the pattern, let’s say on a downwind, we all agree that’s not safe. Other than that aside from making left turns in the pattern, unless otherwise stated, the only other regulations that govern what we’re talking about are right of way rules. Therefore, anybody who has an opinion about that it’s just that. As an instructor I always lean on the airman’s information manual for guidance, and to show my students where to resort for information. I don’t think Dan is throwing things out there just to get reactions andviews. He is not monetized. I do wish you and him well. Thanks again.
Did A Right teardrop to left downwind on my solo XC, followed all the recommended procedures & everything worked out fine, but very good points to take into account in the video from the bad & good.
Stop doing it.
The FAA has issued two advisory circulars that contain the 'teardrop' maneuver (but doesn't call it that). The maneuver is depicted and explained in Appendix A (Page A-5) of AC No. 90-66C issued June 6, 2023. This version canceled AC No. 90-66B, issued 03-13-18 and which depicted and explained the maneuver on Page 9 (Para. 11.3) as the preferred method when approaching an untowered airport (or one whose ATC facility is closed at the time of arrival). The alternate method of overflying midfield at pattern altitude and then turning into the downwind leg is also depicted in both circulars. You do have a good point, however, that light airplanes overflying midfield at 500 feet above their pattern altitude could potentially conflict with heavier aircraft flying in the downwind leg at their pattern altitude of 1,500 AGL.
Remember that the FAA is underfunded, with new grads who may not have a pilots license and they are sitting a desk writing these suggested (not legally binding) methods in advisory circulars. UA-cam shows with personal opinions as law. And ForeFlight apparently doing what AI is going to be doing. . . giving us answers that some people take as law, that make no sense. Student pilots and CFIs in a rush to get a ticket to the bigs, without learning the safety culture. No wonder we are in a pickle.
I fly out of KHMP and do the teardrop entry on an extended pattern to come in correctly on the 45. I was taught this in 1997 when I got my license.
Frankly, it's far safer than pilots crossing midfield and turning left onto the left downwind because they are (or should be) at least 500 above TPA and you are not descending 500 ft in .5 to 1 mile and safely "jumping in line" with others entering on the 45 or remaining in the pattern.
Are you not jumping in line after the teardrop on the 45?
@@ProbableCause-DanGryder no sir. The procedure, when done correctly, has you entering at the beginning of the 45 just like flying south around our airport around either side of the airport and then coming in on the 45... And anyone coming on the 45 has to join the sequenced traffic already remaining in the pattern.
Rather than descending during the right teardrop, I fly at least 2+ miles from the runway and descend straight ahead to pattern altitude with an S turn then perform the right teardrop to the 45 at pattern altitude. I use this entry when there is other traffic in the pattern, which precludes a direct entry into a midfield downwind from a midfield crosswind entry.
Dan, I think you are correct and I can not believe no one is talking about FAR 91.126 (b) direction of turns and Advisor Circular 90-66c, which says, at airports without operating control towers, pilots of airplanes approaching to land make all turns to the left, unless light signals or visual markings indicate that turns should be made to the right. To me, doing anything different is illegal but I have a little bit more anxiety than the average pilot and I think that is what has kept me alive for more than 52 years of flying.
How are you going to make a left turn if you are entering the left downwind leg of the pattern on a 45 degree entry? Once you are on the downwind leg you are in the pattern not when you are "entering" the pattern.
Since the answer to your question is obvious I have to assume you need some help. You need to think about it a little bit longer instead jumping on an idea that you think can not be explained. Here is a hint: "For every rule there is an exception". So, start by researching my quote and also, if you have a pilot's license you should know were to look to research your question. If you are not a pilot, then I would say you are just looking for fight.@@mikestanzel1192
Dan,
I think you should consider all possible approaches to determine whether right tear drop left downwind is more dangerous than others. I say this because, in general, we all have to descend to TPA and we all fly into an airport from all angles (unless there are obstacles that limit the approach to an airport). So your points of flying against the traffic and descending to TPA are dangerous then applies to other scenarios too. Does this mean that there are other approaches equally as dangerous?
The key point in my mind is:
In general, how far away from the airport does one start descending into TPA and join the traffic pattern for landing. This could then apply to the right tear drop into left downwind scenario because if this tear drop is done far enough then it becomes a 45 entry into downwind.
If I got wrong the point you are trying to make, please elaborate further so I can understand better.
Thanks
Did you watch the video? I explained that.
@leCause-DanGryder Yes, I watched twice and try to understand your point. But I don't think you understand what I am trying to ask you to consider.
Let me ask you this... how far away from the airport does one need to be at TPA to enter into traffic patter? 3 miles away? 5 miles away? 1 mile away?
@@tonyl9051 Keep it up sir! I agree with you 100% and apparently the FAA handbooks do as well. Not sure why Dan wants to avoid these two points. He does mean well....but these two points need direct attention in his videos before two many folks are deeply confused.
I was taught it although at first I wasn’t told it was the “right teardrop.” Been told to fly 1,000 above traffic pattern that way you avoid turbine. Then you start descending far enough away from the airport that you will join the 45 to left downwind.
Interesting timing on this. I’m an airline pilot that just last week went to sporty’s to get checked out on a 172. The instructor advised me that the FAA has recently changed their recommendation for pattern entry and we did just this. In our particular situation, we encountered a bonanza on the downwind and the teardrop was appropriate. A few days later I was getting checked out on another school’s 172 and we used foreflight. It recommended the same entry, but a military helicopter prevented this and we just made the decision to make an overhead entry to the downwind. It all worked out, but only because all parties were talking on Unicom. Curious to see how this develops.
It works till it doesn't. I definitely don't teach tm students it.
Too dangerous. I've had guys coming at me head on doing that tear drop entry.
Thank You Dan for caring so much.
Woof Woof
I'm pretty sure the "teardrop" turn to the 45 line was recommended in my ground school materials from 2000. It saved progress on a 3½" floppy disk, that's how long ago that was. I don't think this is a new thing at all. I _think_ it was called "Cleared for Flight" but I'm not sure now.
Teardrop maneuver is found in the AC-90-C .
I am not sure why this is such a complicated subject. The description for the right teardrop entry into the left downwind comes for Advisory Circular AC-90-C Non-towered Airport Flight Operations. This advisory circular was published in 2019 and the requirement is to go beyond the traffic pattern by a minimum of 2 miles. I live at a non-towered airport and if I were to enter the traffic pattern , I would stay well clear of the traffic pattern to enter with the ability to see other traffic in the pattern at the same altitude. If you are entering the downwind it should be well away from the traffic pattern . it males perfect sense as a common way to enter a pattern from overhead.
It's complicated because I've come head to head w morons doing it NOT 4 MILES out.
The most important magazines I ever read was flying mag and soaring mag. Articles were always best of the best. I can see where teardrop has some merit. But so does the 360 overhead. In 360 overhead you can scan the final approach, the base leg, the downwind leg and the departures. Then make your left turn to enter downwind.
Instructing for JAL, ANA, Lufthansa 2007-18 we utilized an entry maneuver that worked extremely well. Generally (in a Bonanza slowed to 120K), overfly midfield at TPA +1000', begin descent (500 fpm) after 30 sec., after one min. arrive at TPA 2 miles from field, turn to landing heading parallel to runway, fly additional one min., turn 135 degrees to enter downwind 45 degrees at TPA approx. 2+ miles from field. Communicate every position, keep head on a swivel, no problem, works all day. Not a "teardrop".
I like that
A 500 fpm decent for one minute from TPA +1000 would being you down to only 1500' agl, but this is generally how I approach and enter the pattern from the opposite side of the preferred traffic flow. Gives me the opportunity to check the field/windsock while also getting a good look & feel for traffic in or entering the pattern from any direction before I maneuver into the downwind from a 45 making my decent and turns well clear of the field and any potential traffic at turbine or regular pattern altitudes. Good stuff, Dan!
Yes. Descent would continue on the extended upwind until TPA, but you're nowhere near entry at this point.@@180av8r
Dan, I’m not sure why you are calling this “new”. It certainly is not new nor is it a ForeFlight thing. I’ve been a CFI for nearly 25 years and it has always been the recommended entry procedure for as long as I can remember when entering the pattern from opposite the downwind leg. See AC 90-66C and the Airplane Flying Handbook (figure 8.3). They don’t call it a teardrop, but that is exactly what is depicted.
With that said, I never fly or teach that entry procedure. It is rife with potential conflicts - especially if you descend while making that turn and/or as you enter downwind - and in my opinion makes absolutely no sense.
The FAA has FINALLY acknowledged (in version C of AC 90-66) that a mid field crosswind with a turn to downwind is now “acceptable”. That is what I teach and to do so with all legs - including the crosswind leg - AT pattern altitude. Not 500’ high.
So, again, it is an FAA thing and did not originate with ForeFlight.
Dan, please consider using a tablet for ADSB-In. Flying with a friend that recently started using it we were both amazed at the amount of traffic around us that we had been looking for, but didn't see. Foremost were the aircraft near or in the pattern that never made a position report. That was terrifying.
Good grief, the last thing we need is a bunch of low time pilots in the traffic pattern staring at computer screens. Its VFR in the pattern. VFR. We need Duane Cole back among the living. He would be aghast at this.
@@JavierBrent Happy Flying Safely should be required reading alongside Stick and Rudder.
@@Aeronca11 Here we go again pilots exaggerating other pilots staring at their ForeFlight. First of all, a large amount of pilots are using ForeFlight with Bluetooth iPads and Bose A20 Bluetooth headsets. I hear a synthetic voice telling me things like "Traffic 2 o'clock same altitude " all day long in and out of the pattern without ever looking at my iPad -- it has been a life saver. Secondly, even when I'm 10 miles out, on ForeFlight with ADS-B Traffic turned on, I begin to see all the planes converging and planes in the pattern, then I start to correlate their movements with the CTAF calls -- so when I'm constantly scanning out the windshield for traffic, I already have a supplemental picture of what's going on. Please stop this foolish accusation of "Flying the Pattern by ForeFlight Magenta Line". This isn't being taught and student pilots are not doing this.
One of the reasons we have specific pattern entries techniques is because not every aircraft has a radio.
I'm surprised this is even a question. I cross The runway at midfield and make a right teardrop entry to the left downwind. Just like I would make a left teardrop entry to a right hand pattern. And as I was taught, I'm also 500 ft above the pattern altitude when crossing midfield. What's hard about this? 🤷🏿♂️🤦🏿♂️
Nothing! Over fly and go two miles and it works perfect every time.
Dan, Your wrong. You haven't read the AC and you are don't seem to understand that the descent and right turn are done AT LEAST 2 MILE OUTSIDE THE TRAFFIC PATTERN , not centerline of the airport.
The simple fix is ACTUALLY READ THE ADVISORY CIRCULAR. AC-90-C
I live at a residential airport and Non towered airport operation needs a consistent traffic pattern entry. the advisory circular the diagrams and the description suggest flying above the traffic pattern (plus1000' not 500' makes sense ) and not begin the teardrop descent until at least 2 miles beyond the traffic pattern . flying 2 miles from the centerline is a mis- interpretation of the AC.
AC 90-C. Not that complicated. The maneuver is not the fault of Foreflight
I flew the right teardrop to descend and turn around to enter the left downwind a couple times recently at a busy uncontrolled. It gave me a great view of the traffic and allowed me to communicate and work into the pattern with good spacing.
I also used your advice to engage a couple pilots in the pattern to figure out their intentions. One was a Bonanza approaching the pattern at high speed. The other was an Icon ahead of me at very slow speed.
While in a practice area a CFI was making snappy position reports that lacked usable detail for anyone other than himself. I was nearby so I engaged him for more clarity as to his location. He said I was to his right. 😂 I asked for a direction and gave my position relative to a major highway and a town. I never figured out where they were so I left the area. They were from a flight school with low time CFI's and G1000 Skyhawks. I was in a 152 with no traffic display.
Don't do them. It causes so many issues.
@@gringoloco8576 what issues? What do you recommend instead?
HUGE liability for Foreflight. Even if they take their teardrop pattern away a few miles, the still have not flown and tested those teardrops for obstacle clearance the way IFR holding patterns are.
You guys are up early. It's Sunday night, and it's bedtime in Australia. Cheers
This occurs 10-20x a day at S50 Auburn, and it's very tight up against the Class B. It's only a matter of time before 2 planes come together there doing this maneuver.
Why did they think they needed to fix something that wasn’t broken!
I just used the measuring tool and the right hand turn of this advisory teardrop pattern in FF shows up starting at 2.2nm from the airport center point.
Yes. And you have to be 2nm outside of pattern. So was that guy legal or illegal?
The procedure specifies flying 2 miles beyond the pattern (about 3 miles from the runway) before beginning the descent. The turn does not commence until reaching pattern altitude - - four or more miles from the airport.
Thank you for blessing us with your beautiful presence on this Sunday morning. I could get used to this. It’s tough for an old man like to stay up to 10pm on Sunday to get my weekly dose while having to get up from work at 3:30am. Either way, I’m not going anywhere and am happy to get this content at any time. Keep it up Dan, we all love your work and are looking forward to the live tonight. 🙏🏼
Reminds me, The Teardrop Explodes was a fantastic English new wave band from the early 80's.
Agreed. This needs more discussion
Now, DAN, here’s a kicker. Every time I’ve ever entered airport area that had a tower which was in operation, I was always instructed to enter a right downwind, or a left downwind for runway such and such. The tower never told me make a 45 to enter the downwind. I could be heading directly towards the airport say from the south, they are using runway 18, I am told to enter a left downwind for 18 and I am a mile or two from the airport. Usually I just fly towards the right to put the runway on my left side and enter a downwind straight on. Tower has no problem with those kind of entries. Not saying to do that in an uncontrolled airport, but my point is tower doesn’t really specify how to enter the pattern they want you to fly.
There are several ways to enter the pattern if the arrival occurs on the upwind leg side of the airport. One method of entry from the
opposite side of the pattern is to announce intentions and cross over midfield at least 500 feet above pattern altitude (normally 1,500
feet AGL). However, if large or turbine aircraft operate at the airport, it is best to remain 2,000 feet AGL so as not to conflict with
their traffic pattern. When well clear of the pattern-approximately 2 miles-the pilot should scan carefully for traffic, descend to
pattern altitude, then turn right to enter at 45° to the downwind leg at midfield. [Figure 8-3A] An alternate method is to enter on a
midfield crosswind at pattern altitude, carefully scan for traffic, announce intentions, and then turn downwind. [Figure 8-3B] This
technique should not be used if the pattern is busy.
Great video, I've been frequenting uncontrolled airports lately and found this trend to be growing (I've been guilty of adopting it for a short period). AC 90-66B clearly states two entries from across the field... 1) cross midfield at least 500 above pattern altitude decent to pattern altitude and then turn to enter on the 45 to downwind or 2) cross midfield at patter altitude and enter downwind on a 45 degree entry. No more "teardrops" for me.
i was taught the teardrop entry during primary training before my first solo, in 2001...as well as the 45 degree entry from 3-4 miles away. I always preferred the 45 simply because it scared me knowing I was going directly into the turbine downwind. Foreflight is great as a helper, but should never be used as a primary.
This video is an excellent example of the mission of your channel. Not presented in a
hair-on-fire manner (especially difficult for guys who have the hairline that you and I do) but in a way that encourages pilots to ask the question, “Is this really a safe idea?”
I heard someone the other day calling out that they were doing a 'spiraling descent to join the left base', I called them out on on it and asked them why don't you just cross mid field and join the down wind, they answered back, that they were on a checkride and it was for a maneuver.
I don’t doubt what you say but what kind of maneuver would that be?
@@DWBurnsVDOA ?
they ended up doing a simulated engine out. @@DWBurns
@@DWBurns YEs its a commercial or cfi check ride maneuver for a spiraling decent, There goal is to descend directly over a point and level off on a heading at an altitude that will allow for a power off 180 approach. I have had to practice it and perform it. The major difficulty is having an airport with such low traffic that this is possible. Its best done after all the flight schools are done for the evening or before they wake up.
Yesterday we had a converging left hand right hand converging on base incident. one plane was unregistered with the FAA.
This was very helpful because I’ve done this kind of descent-usually a mile beyond downwind-but on further thought you guys are right, I’m still too close since some folks fly very wide patterns. I will revise my practice. Thanks.
By the way I don’t love it when folks cross the runway at a 90 then turn immediately onto downwind. I know Dan you said it’s legal and certainly it’s expedient but it’s out-of-the-ordinary at my field. Predictable maneuvers increase the chance folks will see each other in my view.
If two 45s (same airplane cateory) merge for a left downwind, me doing the traditional entry, does the guy on my left (the guy who crossed the runway and is entering from “inside” of downwind) know that I have the right of way under 91.113? I bet not.
And where is he going to go even if he knows I have the right of way? Probably he should climb up and over/out the pattern and start over or maybe do a left 360 over the runway but that could have him turning through final if he delays and also doesn’t climb…
Just by using the term teardrop, it make it feel like you're cleared to make that turn, like you do in a holding pattern. I suspect people are lulled into thinking you can just make that turn without looking. It needs to be drilled in that unless fully tower controlled, you're in the wild west and you need to look. Get away from the pattern. 5 miles.
Also, overhead is not safe if there is parachute jumping or glider winching.
I prefer to use the righty curly-cue, sashay into a high to low key crescendo full stop maneuver…. but thats just me….
Nothing in VFR is called a teardrop, also the AFM suggests this. Go to any busy airport and you’d be crazy not to do this. Try flying into a pattern with 5 people in the pattern and 2 people shooting approaches from opposite directions and doing a pattern altitude entry into the downwind from midfield smh. Overflying 1000 above pattern going out 3-4 miles and turning for the 45 is by far the safest way to enter a busy pattern.
Yes, but if you overfly at ‘500 and make your descending right turn without a few miles established wings level on the 45 then you’re both unsafe and illegal.
@@ProbableCause-DanGryder yes that is unsafe to not get away from the pattern before turning back
My instructor told me about that and showed to me but said she doesn’t recommend it but if for some reason I’d what to do something like that don’t start the right turn until I’m at least 4 miles from the airport and make sure I know the height of the terrain in the area
Teardrops looked cool in magenta on a holding pattern depiction in the cockpits of of the 757s and 737 NGs i flew, but i get a little queasy when i think of low time pilots with their heads buried in the cockpit trying to set up an entry onto a visual traffic pattern downwind. Whatever happened to the "visual" in VISUAL Flight Rules? It's pretty hard to "see and avoid" when the "seeing" is focused on a tablet or a laptop sitting on one's lap!
Absolutely the point to make!! Thank you.
Thanks for this video Dan, could you expand on a 45 degree entry from either side of the downwind? Sounds like the same dangerous situation of possibly entering the pattern head on of traffic on the upwind leg. Thanks again.
Just watched this myself, and he probably could have worded that better. I believe he meant that you don’t have to cross midfield and do a right teardrop, but you can just cross midfield at traffic pattern altitude and make the left turn into the left downwind, assuming you have proper spacing.
@@PilotProjectDylanGryderI consider this very dangerous with head-to-head conflict with planes entering on the 45. Add a low sun angle and its a practice one shouldn't do, but expect brain dead pilots to do it on you.
Descend in the teardrop and be at TPA on 45 before entering downwind. AC 90-66C
Former UK pilot here. I remember being taught to join deadside (either at circuit height or descending from the overhead), crosswind at circuit height over the departure end numbers, downwind, and base...... all going with the direction of the traffic pattern. Why is this teardrop malarkey even needed?
Dan are you aware of fig. 8-3 in the Airplane Flying Handbook?
Discussing Busts of rules, the manuals ALLOW for crossing midfield above patter and a left turn to left downwind..... It doesn't say descend down to patten altitude but if you plan to land from that left downwind you absolutely need to descend into pattern altitude.... so the FAA's own guidance is to bust the rule of entering the pattern AT pattern altitude.
I just planned a flight using Foreflight and included this midfield crossing entry pattern. The flight path displayed correctly shows establishing on the 45 prior to entering downwind. I don’t see reason to blame ForeFlight for pilot error in not flying the entry correctly.
At uncontrolled airports, I routinely cross midfield at TPA for the right or left downwind depending on where I'm approaching the airport from. This, or entering on a standard 45 at TPA. I never deviate from these two pattern approaches. I'm guessing 95% of pilots have no idea what the teardrop pattern is, making it impossible for them to visualize or visually spot where the other traffic is in the airport vicinity. I'm with you guys, the so-called teardrop pattern should not be encouraged. Seeing and being seen is top priority.
The descending turn comes form the EU . Actually UK at most.
You over fly the field above the trafic , over the field start the decent in a circle to join the down wind. Note : The word teardrop is not used as visual flying does not have any protocols using that. Circle right and Circe left etc is normal.
Obviously this if you have to cross the field to enter that down wind. This only if there is only a traffic advisory or non.
But some ATC organised fields use something similar turn but you have to report entry positions.
If you're approaching an airport on the upwind side, why not do a 45 deg. right entry at pattern altitude into the UPwind leg of the pattern, then crosswind turn to downwind?
Collision avoidance in the traffic pattern was a problem long before ForeFlight. But agree the depiction of the so called teardrop entry is incorrect.
Hey Guys... this must be a west coast thing. I've been using this terminology since I started flying in 1967... it has never caused me a problem. I started flying out of Burbank, Ca. at Sky Roamers and flew all over SoCal...
The airman’s information manual on page 8.5 shows this exact entry. I have been a CFI for 20 years and I’ve been teaching it for 20 years. You are supposed to enter the downwind from a 45° leg. The teardrop is the best way to get you in position to enter the pattern on a 45° angle. Seems like you are trying to fix something that isn’t broken. I believe as an over 20 years CFI and an airline this is safer than all the other craziness is happening in the pattern. I agree with most of your AQP but seem you are trying to fix what is safe practice if done properly.
See graphic in this video. One continuous right circle while descending. Was that ok?
If I'm on the 45 degree entry, someone doing a right teardrop will point directly at me, and will be left wing up (unable to see me). This is a bad conflict. If the manual says this is allowed, the manual isn't safe.
@@ProbableCause-DanGryderWhat you kept showing in your video was NOT a teardrop to a 45, even though that's what you kept calling it. It was a 270 directly into the downwind.
If done PROPERLY you will never be looking at someone in the downwind. The BIGGER problem is pilots and instructor flying enormous traffic patterns. Most GA airplanes should be in the downwind less than 1 mile from the centerline of the runway. If you go out two or more miles from the centerline, then start a descending right turn, you’ll be outside the traffic pattern and entering the traffic pattern on a 45° angle like everybody wants..
My flight instructor taught me last year to overfly midfield 500ft above pattern altitude then do a right descending teardrop into the downwind. Shortly after getting my PPL last November I was talking to a different instructor about it. He instantly alerted me and retrained me to cross midfield at pattern altitude and enter downwind with a left turn. He scared the crap out of me when he said a right turn teardrop puts me head on with the bigger planes on their downwind pattern that are at that higher altitude. I've been telling everyone I meet about this DANGEROUS manuever. The worse thing about it is its being taught to us unexperienced students who are unknowing.
What about the 'Standard Overhead Join' as found outside the USA? I guess seen in commonwealth countries?
Dan, here in AZ that Lear (or any jet) will just be calling a 5 mile straight in (UNICOM field), good luck stopping that nonsense. Also, any UNICOM field you are ATC and need to use all of your senses (this includes ADS-B and the radio) to gather what traffic is happening and adjust accordingly.
Your scenario is exactly what happens for pilots flying from PHX area to Sedona, you overhead at 6300msa (4800+1000+500) then turn around over town of Sedona to enter the Left Downwind for 03 (usual landing runway). If its a nice day you had better be prepared for anything, as departing aircraft are on 21 (downhill) and jets/turboprops/cirrus just call the 5 mile final... oh and there's helicopters too.
Get a picture of the inbound and outbound traffic in your head, use the radio, and adjust your flying to fit in. A one-size-fits-all approach just won't work every time. We've had to circle above Sedona a few laps to let things "clear out" to get a clean pattern to land.
I always thought one was supposed to be at Pattern altitude when within 5 miles of the airport of intended landing
Thank you Super Dan !
Wouldnt entering from the field side on the 45 put you crossing the DER at an unsafe position?
As a corporate pilot, I have heard this entry being communicated to a few of the airports that we go to. I have never heard of this maneuver and I sure do not support it. I have been a flight instructor for over 30 years, but I am not an active flight instructor.
Well what about an overhead break to downwind.
How about enter on the upwind at pattern altitude and fly a crosswind to downwind base and final?
As legal as left teardrop to the right downwind. Great maneuver to enter the traffic pattern IF done properly. Less of a fan of crossing the field at pattern altitude and turning right or left and joining the downwind. That’s also in the AIM I believe.
Check out Airplane Flying Handbook. Figure 8-3. This depicts the “teardrop entry” at two miles from 500 ft above pattern. I think that’s not enough space from the field and you need to be wings level for a bit before entering the pattern. Left closed traffic doing touch and goes will just be getting stable on downwind if you are still rolling out midfield as this depicts and you won’t see the conflict until too late.
Question… I was trained to overfly and go outside the pattern and teardrop down to pattern altitude and enter the downwind on the 45 but more and more I’m seeing people just cut through the pattern at pattern altitude and just join the downwind…. Is that an acceptable practice now?
No. That’s the point!
@@ProbableCause-DanGryderI had a rather heated discussion with a few guys who insisted that I was being ridiculous to suggest that I’m going to have a problem with someone cutting through a pattern that I’m in as though everybody but me is doing it
Surprisingly, it is in the airplane flying handbook chapter 8 as an acceptable pattern entry.
@@DH-jm6sk Suggested, not acceptable.
I have been flying for 49 years and five months. I am working on my 12th jet rating. I have been an instructor since 1977.
"A Tear Drop Entry to a Downwind" is... thoughtless. Over flying the airfield? Way above the airfield? Doing a descending turn taking miles of airspace? Near the most crowded airspace? Whatever.
Millions of variables, perhaps, that is somewhere, on occasion, a good idea. I can give you a LOT of examples where it is not appropriate. But, if that is how you want to enter the patter, fine.
Just don't clutter up the radio broadcasting that on the radio. There is simply no way ANYBODY can figure out where you are. Please, just say, West, East, North or South of the runway, so we can "look" for the traffic and avoid conflicts.
If I'm understanding both of you correctly, you recommend crossing the field perpendicular at least 500' above TPA, then going out perpendicular from the runway X nm before you turn either way left or right and descend to TPA then enter the downwind at a 45 degree angle all while announcing your maneuvers on CTAF. BUT, how far is X nm? How far is "you better be a long way away from the airport if you're going to make a right descending turn?" 4 nm? 5 nm?
4 nm from airport is minimum.
If this video were made with reference to FAA Advisory Circular 90-66B, noting that AC 90-66B was not referenced in the video, it would have been a short video and due to both speakers concern about the use of the "teardrop" term, they would have just stated that ForeFlight should change their traffic pattern terminology as follows: 1) Change "Cross Midfield, Teardrop" to "Cross Midfield, Preferred Entry" and 2) Change "Cross Midfield, Direct" to "Cross Midfield, Alternate Entry." I don't think the terminology matters much in foreflight as their diagrams exactly depict the type of entry being selected.
However, a perfectly reasonable topic could have been "Safety Risks of improper execution of the FAA Preferred Entry When Crossing Over Midfield (aka, teardrop entry)," the main points being a) crossing over midfield 500 feet higher than pattern altitude (noting of course that one needs to be aware that multiple pattern altitude exist based on plane type) and b) most critically, per the concerns stated in the video and a fact that was reinforced by both speakers, to fly "Clear" of the traffic pattern (approx. 2 miles). If parts a) and b) are performed properly, then this just has the effect of setting the plane up for the normal 45 degree entry into the pattern. Also, the "teardrop" route ForeFlight adds to the map does properly depict the 2 mile excursion beyond the pattern.
So, I would think that "right teardrop to the left downwind" is both FAA legal and preferred if done properly, even if the ForeFlight assigned name is concerning.
See pattern image here: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Entering_traffic_pattern_-_Preferred_Entry-Crossing_Midfield.png
Yes. It’s just not being done properly and now we have created a turbine/piston mid air at 1500 AGL. We might as well cross at 1000 and hit the lighter weight non turbine given the two choices.
US circuit joins are bonkers. We use UK deadside join where you descend to circuit height and join crosswind.
Yes, but the overhead join in the UK is in my opinion not safe as well. Overflying/crossing the end of the active runway is strange, especially when you have an aircraft going-around and climbing into the crossing aircraft.www.modularpilot.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/standard-overhead-join.jpg
Yes, that is what makes the most sense. When joining from the dead side or inactive side to join the crosswind, you have the whole runway visible and can see any aircraft taking off or that just turned crosswind so you have more of a visual cue as to what aircraft are in front of you in the circuit.
@@paulusheystee5051 Not normally a problem UK, our runways are short, like 3000 feet is a long runway. Most aircraft taking off are below circuit height upwind. Might be odd microlight that climbs steeply.
Conflict occurs if pilot goes wide crosswind and not cross the upwind end of runway. Been doing these joins and teaching 45 years now. Can't remember there being any recorded collisions.
I can see a 45 join downwind is good for the joiner, but not say a student who can't see well to their right the joining traffic.
The legal department of ForeFlight better take this to heart. I see a lawsuit on the horizon by the family of a pilot killed by some magenta line driver entering the pattern with that tear drop maneuver.
Dan, why don’t you reach out to ForeFlight and let them know about the illegality of that right turn so close to the airport? Before it’s too late.
I like joining crosswind at circuit altitude when downwind is the other side of the field. Why is that not a standard?
Simple google search shows FAA statement ? What say you?The "teardrop" is a way to get across the field and turned around in order to join the pattern on a 45. If you were already on that side, it would just be a 45. Recently the FAA started recommending cross midfield at pattern altitude and joining the downwind directly with a 45 on the other side.Mar 5, 2022
Show me where FAA names it by name “teardrop”
Pattern Entry Clarification
Section 11.3 of the AC clarifies traffic pattern entry procedures. Unlike previous guidance, the FAA has expanded their guidance for entering the pattern when you're crossing over midfield. The preferred method is the "midfield overhead teardrop entry" (left diagram), and the second option is then "alternate midfield entry" (right diagram).
If you're crossing midfield to get to the downwind leg, the FAA recommends that you cross pattern altitude at 500+ above pattern, fly clear of the traffic pattern (approx 2 miles), and then descend to pattern altitude and make a teardrop entry to the midfield downwind. www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_90-66B.pdf
Not sure why you've never heard of this. Right 90* Left 270* or vice versa. Used it in military traffic patterns.
"We loop in the purple twilight"
Thanks, Dan, for bringing this important issue to light!
What about instead of crossing over the field and doing the right teardrop to the left down wind just enter midfield left crosswind at pattern altitude.
TOTALLY AGREE! So DANGEROUS. Thx DAN
Read the Advisory Circular on Non Towered Airport Operations. AC-90-C
The manner is meant to be done 2 miles or more beyond , outside, past the traffic pattern , not into the traffic pattern.
This maneuver is clearly depicted in the Airplane Flying Handbook Chapter 8, page 8-5 figure 8-3. You are right that the FAA doesn't name this maneuver, but they do describe it and by not giving it a name, the FAA are the ones that left it open for someone else to label it.
You’re dead right.
@@ProbableCause-DanGryder Just to be clear, I agree that this is dangerous and the 45 is safer. We have a lot of small jets coming into our airport and they are all +500 our pattern altitude. Recipe for disaster. Thanks for what you do and as a CFI myself I will make sure all of my students are educated on this subject.
@benlilley7774 Education is a great first step!
Totally agree Dan! You are a gentleman and a scholar! Has to be the most idiotic entry ever conceived...nowadays people have LOST ALL COMMON SENSE OR NEVER HAD IT FROM THE BEGINNING! Stop looking at your devices and LOOK OUT THE WINDOW...want to do a teardrop entry for the love of God please please overfly the airport 500' above and travel MANY miles out and enter the 45 like all the normal and competent pilots....
I wonder why Dan doesn’t show the airman information manual depicting the “ teardrop” entry
Show me where they put the word "teardrop" in print.
lol that’s why I put in quotes, how else would you describe it.
I have signed off a lot of students for their practical exam. I can tell you every DPE expects you to follow the procedures outlined in the Airman Information Manual for proper entry to the traffic pattern. Including a “teardrop entry”.
How about, when entering from the opposite side, entering at pattern altitude, on crosswind, 1/4-1/2 upwind of the departure end of the RWY? You’d be above departing traffic, on the level with downwind traffic.
Bingo.
And you'd be in conflict with departing traffic.
First there’s a clear view of the RWY to see ground activity. Mostly, if you were on a close-in crosswind, wouldn’t you be above departing traffic?
Read Advisory Circular 90-C.
Not necessarily.@@billfajack2303
In Canada we cross over midfield 500 ft above circuit altitude and descend left hand turn on the dead side to cross back over midfield at circuit altitude and joining a mid downwind. Seems to work ok here.
Thanks for this video. Like you, I had never heard of this "maneuver" before until I was making a short flight from I68 to I69. I recently started flying my Thorp T-18 (in August 2023) and have started to expand my flights to nearby airports. I thought the short flight over to Clermont County would make for a nice little flight. As soon as I turned to the CTAF, I heard call after call of "right teardrop entry to a left downwind to 04." I thought "what the heck is that?" My ADSB-in showed a beehive of activity at I69, and at about 10 nm out, I decided to abort that flight and head back. When I got back, I looked it up and saw what it meant. It doesn't make sense to me and I'm glad to know I'm not alone.
Maybe we should call is a "Crazy Ivan Entry" to the 45 !!
FAR 91.126: Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in Class G airspace.
"Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the left"
A right "teardrop" to the downwind would seem to be contrary to the FARs.
Left turns for "approaching to land" aircraft. If you're doing the overhead flying +500 then flying 2nm out descending then coming back 45 degrees, it's technically not in the approaching to land phase therefore not breaking any regs.
@NoahHeadglitch No…if you’re with 2 nm and doing right descending turn for the teardrop pattern entry then you “are” 1) approaching to land and, 2) in the vicinity.
@@ProbableCause-DanGryder I didn’t mention a descending turn. Fly out 2nm THEN descend to tpa then turn back. There was supposed to be a comma before descending on my end. What would be your definition of approach to landing and airport vicinity? I think the faa leaves these up for interpretation a bit too much.
In the UK we do overhead joins. You never decent on the live side of the airport. Overhead join has you decend "deadside" i.e. the side where the downwind is not.
Check out FAA AC 90-66B, paragraph 11.4. It shows a right "tear drop" entry to a left downwind. It does recommend to come over the airport at pattern altitude, but I don't like that either. With the traffic we have in the Tucson - Phoenix corridor, you'd be asking for trouble. I would recommend, when coming in from the opposite side of the downwind, you should go out a good distance on the crosswind, make a left turn on an extended downwind, or a 45 to the downwind.
Foreflight is a wonderful product, you’re missing out. I’m sure you can find someone to share an iPad with you and once you try it you’ll be convinced. It’s a small investment in comparison to the cost of flying…..