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I've been running a campaign in this system, and I didn't know Questing Beast reviewed it until yesterday, so I'd like to put in my two cents: The book is definitely just about mechanics. It does have a lot of flaws, mostly in the book's writing and lack of real guidance or examples, but some of the ideas it presents are pretty good and I see the purpose for them. Like Ben mentioned, most rolls result in a partial success, which is inherently a win. In my experience, it allows the players to move the scene forward, but also introduces more hazards or still uses up their resources. That pressure, in combination with how fluid the aptitude tags are for applying bonuses to roll, makes the players have to be really creative with how they approach problems to get the largest chance of success. The massive list of techniques is used for player abilities (like a feat in 5e or pathfinder), but also for magic item abilities and enemy abilities. With the low level cap, it's rewarding to gain techniques (new trait tags too) through items or as rewards for major accomplishments. Also, the mechanics brought over from the PbtA side; the planning roll, stances, etc, all gel fairly well. Planning rolls in particular are nice to skip the hassle of getting into or out of a multi-level dungeon. The equipment system is nice and versatile too. I can't ignore the issues though, it's far from perfect. The system strictly sticks to using d6s only, I assume for stylistic reasons, and it's fairly limiting. The small roll tables for most effects are a perfect example. The speed/encumbrance/initiative rules are pretty dumb, and there's a distinct lack of examples for more niche rules and scenarios. I assume the authors intend for the GM to make their own rulings, which is appealing, but this is a strange hybrid system and some guidance would be appreciated. Like Ben mentioned, the core mechanics are pretty solid and the OSR to PbtA monster conversion rules are pretty nice. There's also an expansion out that adds some more roll tables and rules, I think it's PDF only though. If you trust yourself enough to homebrew some things, then this can be a solid system to run. Otherwise, it could be a good resource to insert some more "gritty" aspects to other PbtA games.
One of the thing I like about PbtA is the speed of the rolling mechanic : roll 2d6, add or subtract a single modifier, then check the result. What I don't like about PbtA is that there is no way to meaningfully model task difficulty : either you have fictional positioning and can roll, or you don't and can't. The advantage/disadvantage mechanics is a great way to solve this : it still can't model lots of variables, only three "tiers" (advantage, regular, disadvantage), but it's super fast. Aptitude (good tags mean +1 and bad tags mean -1) is, in my opinion, a bad idea. First, they replace a simple mechanic (static ability bonus) with a range of tags that could be meaningful for many situations, but that sometimes (often?) needs interpretation. That means that before every roll, the GM and the player need to tally the relevant tags, then decide on the final modifier for the roll (that's even how it's presented in the rules, p. 36, 5:36). That's going to be especially annoying in combat (the place where you want to speed things up the most), because tags are spread between the PC sheet and the GM monster sheet. Sure, sometimes it's going to be clear (most combat attacks will use the same tags), but then why not simply use ability modifiers instead? The game is aware of that (p. 37, 5:38), and basically advise to not tally tags. Why, then, use them at all?
Thank you for reviewing this product! Reading this book really wowed me, but I typically am very excitable, so it was nice to hear the thoughts of a more critical mind. I find a lot of the mechanics in Vagabonds to be very interesting. Personally, I think that this is the game a group would go to if they were feeling slightly burned out on OSR after having lost a lot of characters or something. It's likely to be a fun romp with detailed characters that are good at what they do. I'm rootin' for you, Ben! Keep making amazing and useful content.
Thanks for the review. VoD sounded though it'd be right up my alley -- I love "Rosetta Stone" RPGs like Fate: Freeport -- but it looks like it's not fully baked. Not to the point of getting a print copy, anyway. Maybe a revised edition would fix some of the layout issues (whitespace is good, unbalanced layouts... less so), number its lists (definitely at least a venial sin), provide more content, and firmer advice about how to balance the mechanics toolbox for a given playstyle. The unusual format reminds me of Star Wars SAGA edition. The reduced height makes them really good for small tables, fitting behind a GM screen, etc. I prefer booklets these days though, and I feel this doesn't make adequate use of the splashier "coffee table book" page size.
Thanks for the review. I backed this one and was a little concerned when it went to print so fast after the end of the Kickstarter. That rush comes through in some of your comments including the layout. I would have liked to see them spend more time of the late stage development. I don’t get why people look at the 7-9 roll as success. If it seems too easy I think a group should be pressing the down side of those rolls harder. I personally find success at a great cost much more challenging for the players than outright failure.
Yeah! 7-9 shouldn't be success, but tension! I envision this roll-area to be that cliche movie scene with the baddie pressing the big knife down towards the hero, as hero tries to hold it back. I think having the dice titled toward success is fun for players and story/action, and I do like this game having low HP making the 0-6 rolls brutal (in theory) if they do hit. If players like GoT, I think they'll understand.
Great point about the lack of clarity between advantage/disadvantage and positive/negative tags. My biggest problem with the dice curve is simply that it's non-symmetrical. You cannot use the same mechanic to simulate things from the NPC point of view, unless the GM wants to treat them as "name" NPCs. In which case you still have the issue of how you simulate opposition between two "important" characters.
Looks interesting! Though, just an FYI, if the name really is based on the Welsh county of the same name, then it should be pronounced "duh-ved" or "dev-ed" depending on whether you want to say it with a Northern or Southern accent.
Interesting stuff. I see your point about it being a book of mechanics, though it does look interesting. I've been listening to the new season of The Adventure Zone and am getting curious about PbtA so that's a tempting product in a lot of ways. Looking forward to that next review, that also looks depressing & fascinating in equal measure. I've said this before, but I swear man you're going to be the death of both my wallet & my bookshelf...
Excellent review as usual. There are blank character sheets on the DTRPG store page when you buy it; there is also a single-column version of the core rules as PDF (very handy). Finally there is also a Quick Reference on the store page by David Schirduan - also very handy. FWIW, the creator is going to be releasing a Cyclopedia with a ton of content (found here: docs.google.com/document/d/1s0HJ2Z1f5Cbs-Qk_bhIQE8Y0995-YzFD2FaZa1YF3Ac) some time in the near future. One of the KS stretch goals was an adventure, which is coming out later this year as well.
Actually more like "duh-vid" or maybe "doo-vid" as Cymru is pronounced Koom-ree. A Welsh speaker could comment better. I took a brief course on speaking Welsh 20 years ago so ...
Join the Questing Knights on Patreon: bit.ly/QBPatreon
Download my RPGs and adventures: bit.ly/ItchStore
My favorite OSR books: bit.ly/TopOSRBooks
My favorite RPG-related products: amzn.to/30kfamM
I've been running a campaign in this system, and I didn't know Questing Beast reviewed it until yesterday, so I'd like to put in my two cents:
The book is definitely just about mechanics. It does have a lot of flaws, mostly in the book's writing and lack of real guidance or examples, but some of the ideas it presents are pretty good and I see the purpose for them. Like Ben mentioned, most rolls result in a partial success, which is inherently a win. In my experience, it allows the players to move the scene forward, but also introduces more hazards or still uses up their resources. That pressure, in combination with how fluid the aptitude tags are for applying bonuses to roll, makes the players have to be really creative with how they approach problems to get the largest chance of success. The massive list of techniques is used for player abilities (like a feat in 5e or pathfinder), but also for magic item abilities and enemy abilities. With the low level cap, it's rewarding to gain techniques (new trait tags too) through items or as rewards for major accomplishments. Also, the mechanics brought over from the PbtA side; the planning roll, stances, etc, all gel fairly well. Planning rolls in particular are nice to skip the hassle of getting into or out of a multi-level dungeon. The equipment system is nice and versatile too.
I can't ignore the issues though, it's far from perfect. The system strictly sticks to using d6s only, I assume for stylistic reasons, and it's fairly limiting. The small roll tables for most effects are a perfect example. The speed/encumbrance/initiative rules are pretty dumb, and there's a distinct lack of examples for more niche rules and scenarios. I assume the authors intend for the GM to make their own rulings, which is appealing, but this is a strange hybrid system and some guidance would be appreciated.
Like Ben mentioned, the core mechanics are pretty solid and the OSR to PbtA monster conversion rules are pretty nice. There's also an expansion out that adds some more roll tables and rules, I think it's PDF only though. If you trust yourself enough to homebrew some things, then this can be a solid system to run. Otherwise, it could be a good resource to insert some more "gritty" aspects to other PbtA games.
Since the game already required 2d6, I’m surprised that the designers didn’t do d66 tables!
One of the thing I like about PbtA is the speed of the rolling mechanic : roll 2d6, add or subtract a single modifier, then check the result. What I don't like about PbtA is that there is no way to meaningfully model task difficulty : either you have fictional positioning and can roll, or you don't and can't. The advantage/disadvantage mechanics is a great way to solve this : it still can't model lots of variables, only three "tiers" (advantage, regular, disadvantage), but it's super fast.
Aptitude (good tags mean +1 and bad tags mean -1) is, in my opinion, a bad idea. First, they replace a simple mechanic (static ability bonus) with a range of tags that could be meaningful for many situations, but that sometimes (often?) needs interpretation. That means that before every roll, the GM and the player need to tally the relevant tags, then decide on the final modifier for the roll (that's even how it's presented in the rules, p. 36, 5:36). That's going to be especially annoying in combat (the place where you want to speed things up the most), because tags are spread between the PC sheet and the GM monster sheet. Sure, sometimes it's going to be clear (most combat attacks will use the same tags), but then why not simply use ability modifiers instead? The game is aware of that (p. 37, 5:38), and basically advise to not tally tags. Why, then, use them at all?
Thanks for this in-depth review, it helped me a lot in deciding that this book will not have a place on my OSR shelf.
Thank you for reviewing this product! Reading this book really wowed me, but I typically am very excitable, so it was nice to hear the thoughts of a more critical mind. I find a lot of the mechanics in Vagabonds to be very interesting. Personally, I think that this is the game a group would go to if they were feeling slightly burned out on OSR after having lost a lot of characters or something. It's likely to be a fun romp with detailed characters that are good at what they do.
I'm rootin' for you, Ben! Keep making amazing and useful content.
Thanks for the review. VoD sounded though it'd be right up my alley -- I love "Rosetta Stone" RPGs like Fate: Freeport -- but it looks like it's not fully baked. Not to the point of getting a print copy, anyway.
Maybe a revised edition would fix some of the layout issues (whitespace is good, unbalanced layouts... less so), number its lists (definitely at least a venial sin), provide more content, and firmer advice about how to balance the mechanics toolbox for a given playstyle.
The unusual format reminds me of Star Wars SAGA edition. The reduced height makes them really good for small tables, fitting behind a GM screen, etc. I prefer booklets these days though, and I feel this doesn't make adequate use of the splashier "coffee table book" page size.
Thanks for the review. I backed this one and was a little concerned when it went to print so fast after the end of the Kickstarter. That rush comes through in some of your comments including the layout. I would have liked to see them spend more time of the late stage development.
I don’t get why people look at the 7-9 roll as success. If it seems too easy I think a group should be pressing the down side of those rolls harder. I personally find success at a great cost much more challenging for the players than outright failure.
Yeah! 7-9 shouldn't be success, but tension! I envision this roll-area to be that cliche movie scene with the baddie pressing the big knife down towards the hero, as hero tries to hold it back.
I think having the dice titled toward success is fun for players and story/action, and I do like this game having low HP making the 0-6 rolls brutal (in theory) if they do hit. If players like GoT, I think they'll understand.
Great point about the lack of clarity between advantage/disadvantage and positive/negative tags. My biggest problem with the dice curve is simply that it's non-symmetrical. You cannot use the same mechanic to simulate things from the NPC point of view, unless the GM wants to treat them as "name" NPCs. In which case you still have the issue of how you simulate opposition between two "important" characters.
Nice to have the sneak peek at the end!
Looks interesting!
Though, just an FYI, if the name really is based on the Welsh county of the same name, then it should be pronounced "duh-ved" or "dev-ed" depending on whether you want to say it with a Northern or Southern accent.
I live in dyfed and you are of course right
I winced when he said it at the start
Interesting stuff. I see your point about it being a book of mechanics, though it does look interesting. I've been listening to the new season of The Adventure Zone and am getting curious about PbtA so that's a tempting product in a lot of ways. Looking forward to that next review, that also looks depressing & fascinating in equal measure. I've said this before, but I swear man you're going to be the death of both my wallet & my bookshelf...
Lucky it wasn't called Vagabonds of Nantyffyllon.
I played this over the weekend on Gratticus's twitch channel, the great Grant Ellis was the gm, fun game
Great review! Thank you.
Very nice, but not enough content. Maybe a revised ed. will get more in it? =)
I was hoping you would review this!
Ruleset: Do whatever you like, I didnt bother writing any rules.. lol =)
i went to that game club in the school that u did
Excellent review as usual. There are blank character sheets on the DTRPG store page when you buy it; there is also a single-column version of the core rules as PDF (very handy). Finally there is also a Quick Reference on the store page by David Schirduan - also very handy.
FWIW, the creator is going to be releasing a Cyclopedia with a ton of content (found here: docs.google.com/document/d/1s0HJ2Z1f5Cbs-Qk_bhIQE8Y0995-YzFD2FaZa1YF3Ac) some time in the near future. One of the KS stretch goals was an adventure, which is coming out later this year as well.
Lots of white space.
If its Welsh it should sound dove fa Edd. It's spelt Welsh
It is pronounced "DIV-ed" IIRC.
Actually more like "duh-vid" or maybe "doo-vid" as Cymru is pronounced Koom-ree. A Welsh speaker could comment better. I took a brief course on speaking Welsh 20 years ago so ...
@@tbb4023 Old comment I know but it's pronounced duh-vid as you mentioned
its not difed its duved. y in welsh is usually an uh sound and one f is a v and two ff is an f sound. ;)
confusingly 'y' can also be a i sound. like ysbyty and ynys ;)
Just so you know, it's pronounced duh-ved.
Aside from that, great video!
Yeah this one fell flat for me.
Never particularly enjoyed powered by the apocalypse. Everyone reccomends it to me, but it's just not appealing so, hard pass for me.
Great review. Thank you.