When you combine the civilian self-defense, police agencies and US Military use of the 9mm, it is clearly the #1 self-defense round in the US ... probably the world.
Excellent lecture. Very informative and a must for any gun guy. I am 77. Bought my first surplus 1911 at an Ace Hardware store at age 15 in Chicago. As a navy Corpsman I carried both a rifle and a 1911 in Vietnam. Did a total of 25 months in Nam and only used the 1911 once... but I shot it empty. Three Purple Hearts. Worked as a contractor for twelve years after I left the Navy. When in locations, such a cities, where I couldn't carry a rifle I carried both a 1911 and a Browning HP. Both with FMJ's. Got out of a couple of scrapes with the two pistols. Came home on a stretcher or wheel chair four times during those twelve years. Had 15 round mags for the HP. My practice: Use the HP when pray and spray was required. Use the 1911 when necessary. Most often both. When in the US I carried a 1911 a la Mexican or a S&W 3 in. model 13 with a Barami grip. Illegally of course. No CC back then. Great money contracting. Paid for college in a foreign country and a U.S. part time night law school. Quit when I got my JD in Chicago in 1979. Moved to Texas in 1997. I currently carry a Sig 226 or 229 in 357 Sig. I figure the .357 Sig round hits as hard as a .45 but the 226's and 229's have greater capacity. No holster. Clipdraw.
I watched every minute of this great video. Thank you for this information and your time. Agreed on the .45 ACP to 9mm comparison. Relative to higher bullet weight, albeit at a slower velocity, the element of momentum is overlooked by those claiming that 9mm is on level ground with .45 ACP. That could open a discussion on 147 gr bullets, such as Gold Dot or XTP...... driven to 1150 fps and higher, but for another day. Agreed that the 1986 FBI bullet performed exactly as designed. Like yourself I am intrigued by the 90 gr solid copper Defender, but only if loaded by Underwood at +P+. Wilson Combat isn't running the velocity as hot as needed. And I honestly believed you would summarize that 9mm was "adequate"....I should have bet on it. A subtopic to this video (and you may have previously discussed it) is the growing dominance of 9mm micro guns, ex. 3" barrels. I carry a G19 but my tendency is to move up to a G17, not the other direction. A 1911 9mm is very intriguing as well. New subscriber.
You must test the Beretta PX4 9mm for science 👨🔬 edit: It got the rotating bolt and it would be good to know if it handles +P and +P+ loads with notably less recoil than other platforms. PX4 was originally built for the .40 S&W so its beefed up.
@@richardwhite2836 except you can't get fast repeat hits with it, using a lw, compact pistol. and to hell with your claims of never missing, never having people who dont stop even with 00 buck blasts and never having more than one attacker.
@@boostimalaka1 he was shot in the head/neck 3x and the neck hit is what finished him off. He fought on for 3 minutes after taking the silvertip to his arm/lung. Not the sort of performance you want in your carry pistol.
Great article! I started my law enforcement career with the Border Patrol in 1964 and was around for the changes from .38 /.357 revolvers, to .45 1911s, and wound up with the 15 round 9mm pistols. I completely agree with you about .45 vs. 9mm. To show how things change, when I was on the river with the Border Patrol, we had six shot .38 Spcl. revolvers and carried an extra six rounds of ammo on our river belts. I usually carried a few wadcutter rounds in my pockets for dispatching rattlesnakes. Before I retired, we were carrying 9mm sub machine guns and 15 shot pistols. I really appreciate you sharing your experiences and analysis of the more modern ammo.
My first duty gun was a S&W model 66. I did get to carry a 1911 twice in my career. My first 9mm duty gun was the Sig P226. I ended up carrying a Glock 23 when I retired. I loved polymer guns because it seemed like every year we added something to our duty belts. My duty belt was a chunk when I retired. I'm to this day a 1911 fan. Thanks for your service Sir.
Were you guys carrying long guns in your vehicles back then? In my time I have only carried 45 caliber Glocks in one form or another. They are talking about transitioning back to 9mm, but my agency has a checkered past with the 9 and it’s not the most popular idea with guys who have enough time on to remember. I was in one of the first academy classes of recruits to be issued a 45 and the stories from our range instructors were not positive about the 9, especially in one particular infamous shooting. I love to hear how things were back in the old days. I’m a 15 year cop and even in that relatively short time this job has changed. Unfortunately not for the better. I’m scared to think how it will be when I retire. 🇺🇸
I've been shooting and studing ballistics since 1986, and for the first time I watched a video with a guy that I agree 100%!!! Congratulations for your very instructive and enlightening video!
147gr is currently the most popular LE projectile in 9mm Most new LE 9mm is introduced as 147gr. 135 and 124gr are also common…Im not sure who is still using 115gr in LE.
1911's are not obsolete. The only thing that seems to go in and out of fashion, is the ability of people to appreciate the strengths of the 1911. Now they are back big time with 9mm!
Great series! I always wanted a 1911 .45 so I got myself a beautiful Kimber. As a retired LEO I mostly carried a Glock .40, I still have that weapon but my EDC is a Glock 27 with a G23 mag so I am looking forward to your .40 video. Thanks for your many years of service!
Interesting and informative, thanks for sharing your ideas, opinions, and experience! I really enjoy your pots, it's like being one on one with a classroom setting..
I like this series a lot, and I hope you continue it! I'll be excited to hear your thoughts on 40 & 45, but I'd really look forward to hearing what you think of 38spl, 357mag, and 44spl. Thanks for the videos!
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb Can't wait! I prefer carrying a revolver, and while there is plenty of ballistic gel evidence out there, I've always wondered how those cartridges perform in the real world (shot-for-shot) when stacked up against more popular auto loader cartridges. Thank you, sir.
I'd rather have 15, 40 S&W than 17, 9mm but I'm good with 13, 45 ACP. I just think that my G22 with 180 grain Fed HST's is the perfect balance for me, really my G21SF carries just as well, so... If you're really worried about concealing your pistol, then by all means go to a 9mm - they are really much smaller and easy to conceal. So is a small j-frame sized revolver. I just dress to cover - I'm not worried about looking stylish. And if somebody does notice or "think" that I'm armed... no big deal. I live in Texas and open carry is legal. Thanks Dick - enjoy your vids.
I carried for 28 years LE in L.A. On top of that, another 6 years (34 years total LE) with a 45acp. Now retired, I switched to .40 and alternate my EDC with a .357 Sig on some days. I 💙 recoil and a harder hitting bullet. My double-taps are just fine on target with a .40.
Former Army infantry it's ironic I do the same depending on my mood most of the time it's a model 22 Glock or the model 32 in 357 Sig I prefer both of those cartridges on the streets
I really enjoy your videos. I shot 9mm, .40, & .45acp all using Federal HST. I used the short barreled carry pistols that are generally used now into ballistic gel. If anyone thinks the 9mm is as good as the other two, I most definitely can prove that isn't correct.
A friend of mine, long time ago was an assassin. He uses 45 acp most of the time and 357. He was shot 17 times and survived. So talk to him after a couple of months. I told him you're a tough guy dude, are you using magic or something. You survived 17 gunshot wounds including 1 in the head. WTH his answer, I got lucky. The killer was using 9mm. If it's 45 acp or 357, I am not here anymore. lols
I own a CZ 75 P07 Duty with an 18-round magazine, but I cary 1 up hammer down, so my 1st shot will be D/A. My trigger is excellent on that CZ, but I learned to shoot with a revolver, in other words, D/A on each shot. I have a military background and in actual wars as well. I can draw my CZ and put 5 shots in a target in just over 3 seconds, 3 in the chest, and 2 in the head or throat area. I use Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P, a very nice round.
Thank you. We had to put Bud down a year ago, Cushings disease. I think Ginger misses him the most, she would pick a fight with him several times a day. Now she picks a fight with me.
I seem to recall long ago reading a column by a G&A author (I think it was Elmer Keith) where he claimed the Illinois State Police was having reliability and durability issues with their S&W Model 39 pistols. This was several decades back, either the late 1970s or the 1980s. I don't remember the reason for the problems, but when you mentioned the ammo switch, it triggered that old memory cell. Personally, I've always loved the look and feel of the Model 39, but I detested the trigger pull, awkward safety, and lack of elevation adjustment. During that era I owned a number of 9mm pistols, but never carried them. I was devoted to the 45 ACP and still have my customized 1977 Commander. As you pointed out, HP loads were not as dependable at penetration and expansion as they are now, plus very few stock auto pistols would reliably feed them. I did not switch to 9mm until Kel-Tec came out with their P11. It was the small size, light weight, high magazine capacity, and DAO trigger that most influenced this decision, not bullet expansion. While I carry modern HP loads, I've never put my faith in bullet performance from any handgun because the ballistic potential is far too marginal.
Very nice vid . I have always liked the 45acp , I have never believed all of the hype about the 9mm . Not to say that I don't like and carry the 9mm . The 9mm +P or +P+ can be a great round to carry , but still not as good as the 45acp in my opinion . Hickok 45 sent me here , thanks and I have Subscribed ...
Thirty years ago I considered the 9x19 as just a glorified 38 Special for use in a semiautomatic pistol. Now I’m willing to admit that the 9x19 is adequate for self defense because of the improvements in cartridges and arms. BTW you should have included the 9x18 Makarov in the discussion. I know that ammunition availability and cost may be an issue at this time but from the limited amount of data I can find it appears to be a step up from the 380. I’ve never shot or owned a Makarov but the thought has always intrigued me. Just a thought for you to consider. 😊
There are advantages and disadvantages to all cartridges. The .45 acp pistols are heavier, kick more and the .45 ammo cost a good bit more. Cost matters. Recoil matters and cost matters. After working in law enforcement for nearly 38 years I have formed some opinions. I had rather have a .45 for kicking down doors for searches or serving high risk warrants. For patrol I strongly prefer the 9mm. Two things I didn't mention is case capacity and ease of getting good shot placement. Twenty-five years ago you couldn't run fast enough to give me a 9mm. Today the ammo is so much better.
The 9mm is load dependent IMO as a retired 1811 I am convinced it is the speed that you should be after. My agency had great effect with the Federal 115gr +P+ the federal border patrols first 10 shootings were 10 one shot stops. DeKalb County PD and the Secret service praised this round.
The army’s “new” Winchester M1152 training rounds for the 9mm is running chamber pressures of 39,700psi. That’s definitely a hot round and you can feel it at the range. That said, it’s still a 9mm and there isn’t really that much difference in recoil.
I shot some in a P365 and you can definitely feel it. I won't carry it in the 365. OK for G19X and PCCs. It has impressed me with its performance in penetration tests. Probably due to the flat nose bullet.
My load of choice is the remington golden saber +p 124gr bonded jacketed hollow point. For a handful of reasons. 1, it's regularly stocked at my local hardware store. 2, my pistal is sprung for +p 124gr projectiles. 3, we always knew that under any condition that a 9mm bullet could expand, the golden saber would. Now that it's bonded, it's like "welcome to the club, little brother."
With all due respect to your experience when stating that the 45 is “superior” to the 9mm “as a simple fact” because it carries “twice the weight” is an oversimplification. I understand that you are still recommending the 9mm as a defense carry despite that “fact,” and I respect all the reasons why, including # of rounds/magazine. And I fully agree. A large study which you are well aware of showed no real difference between 380 up to 45 in real world shooting encounters and their results. Furthermore, what matters when a bullet strikes an attacking target is a) accuracy and b) energy transfer (not weight). Kinetic energy is = 1/2MVsquared. Velocity is to the exponential and Mass isn’t. Velocity of projectile is far far more important than weight. THAT is called Physics sir. Good discussion. 👍🏼
Your perspective on the 9mm is Spot-On , IMO . There are definitely harder hitting cartridges than the 9mm , but like you said , "the 9mm is good enough". Coincidentally , I started carrying a Glock 48 primarily for the reason you stated.......grip size . I find it more comfortable than a double-stack and easier to conceal . Prior to the G-48 , I usually carried a S&W 3" mod.65 .357mag . My dad was a L.E.O. going back to late 60s' so I've been sold on the .357 ever since , and it will ultimately always be my "go-to" cartridge . The truth is I've carried just about all the calibers at one time or another , so I guess the most effective caliber is the one you're carrying that day . Great video , and Thank You for your Law Enforcement Service !
What’s your take on the “extra lethality” argument surrounding the carrying of hand loads given factory loads containing frangible high velocity bullets and the fluid transfer Lehighs?
I have never felt carrying a handload with enhanced performance would cause you a problem. Opposing counsel will attack you every which way they can, including if you created "custom killer bullets." Those arguments are all smoke and mirrors but in todays political climate your battle will be uphill which ever load you use. Years ago I was at an ammo plant doing consulting work and I had some pre-release Winchester Black Talon bullets I had tested in water jugs. The expanded points were literally like an eagle's talon, razor sharp. The owner of the ammo company was aghast, he called them "killer bullets." I said, "Steve, they're all killer bullets, we don't generally shoot people we like. Doing as much damage as possible is the main idea."
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb Yes, smoke and mirrors originating from a position of ignorance. Why would my .38 Super 147 grain JHP’s at 1175 fps be treated any differently than Buffalo Bore’s at the same performance? I’m not even sure how anyone could tell the difference.
I agree with all this. I started carrying 45 years ago and love it dearly, especially out of my 1911 or my Glock 30. I have said for a long time that it is curious to me that All these 9 mm fanboys keep praising how good it has come, but they don't mention that it has to be in +p or +p+ that the guns weren't designed for and every single manufacturer tells you not to feed a steady diet of. Now, after my back surgeries, I had to carry smaller pistols... Yes some of them are 9 mm, but I have recently gotten into the .40 game for edc and really like it. I'm hoping it makes a comeback.
I think the death of the .40 is itself a myth. MANY LE agencies and individuals still carry the .40. The 9mm lovers want you to think the .40 is dead, and its popularity is down, but it is far from dead.
I’ve seen some reviewers claiming the fluted projectiles act like a tumbling bullet instead of the manufacture’s claim. Huge disruptions towards the middle of the gel block with the bullet facing backwards.
Bullets that don't deform (expand or fragment) will ALWAYS eventually invert if the media track is deep enough. The FTM bullets don't tumble (over and over) they invert because the center of gravity is towards the base. The rifling spin keeps them point forward in flight through the air but NO amount of spin will keep them point forward in a denser medium (water, tissue, etc.) That is why they come to rest facing backwards. During the bullet's spin to base forward, the temporary cavity in gelatin is larger, but the bulk of the big disruption is the fluid jetting effect of the flutes before the bullet inverts.
I believe so. A friend is compiling data for a book on that shootout. But yes, I believe a Winchester "SPD" load from a snubbie ended the fight. The SPD was Winchester's version of the 158 LSW HP +P.
The problem of those fluted all copper bullets is that they have difficulty chambering in a Glock. I had three failure to chamber malfunctions in a 40-round string of fire.
I am retired Marine Corps (68-88)and I frequent the firearms section of the Exchange. I am a big fan of the 1911 since I carried it and qualified with the pistol darn near for 20 years and if it had not been for the 9mm I would have. Their happen to be a young Marine singing the phrase of large capacity magazines and was critics of singe stack magazines and the pistols that used them. I stuck my nose in and found out he was a machine gunner and wanted a lot of ammo since one shot one kill was impossible. Than I ask him if he was a sniper would we be having this conversation and he drew a blank got mad and left. The local range I am a member of is owned and ran by retired Marines. One of the range officers is a friend on mine. He tells me how bad a shot the active duty Marines are shooting their civilians purchased AR15 and 9 mm pistols. For the rifles the distance is not that far but 50 yards most of their groups are very large and shot off of a bench. I don’t know what they do at the military ranges anymore but marksmanship anymore.
Thanks for your service. I have read the USMC has now discontinued their entire Scout/Sniper program and MOS??? When the Army dropped sniper training after Viet Nam, the Marines kept training the extremely powerful and cost effective "weapons system" that snipers are. Our entire military is going woke in a hurry.
Which agency is that??? I'm assuming you are only transitioning due to budget...certainly it's not for lack of performance if you are downgrading to a 9mm...
I’m partial to the +P+ loads in 9mm. That put me in .357 Sig territory. When the Sig came out I thought it was, and still do, the cat’s meow. All defensive caliber handguns are marginal at best. Give me a 12 or an AR.
@@AugustusMcCrae-e8h it's still weaker and i can't see it being a smart option to use loads a company won't stand behind if your pistol goes boom. Is there a gun company that will "ok" the use of +P+ rounds down the barrel?
I’m in a state that limits mags and hand guns to 10 rounds…also I would rather have a round that stays inside a target and not pass through while having stopping power but reducing the potential harm of an innocent bystander….what round would you suggest in this scenario for carrying? To stop a threat with fewer rounds yet limit the chance of passing through and injuring an innocent? Also a manageable recoil to allow for more accuracy and be able to carry concealed with not too much difficulty? Your input would be greatly appreciated. I’m new to your channel which I enjoy with your no nonsense content and approach to explaining things and new to concealed carry.. a pistol or revolver is one of my dilemmas although I may prefer a hammer fired weapon as opposed to a striker fired one
As long as you don't carry deep penetrating loads intended for bear defense, over penetration isn't a serious issue. I am not aware of a single incident where a CCW shooter's bullet has fully penetrated a bad guy then injured someone downrange. I know of a few involving police officers, but even those are generally settled with minimum fuss. I suggest you try several pistols in calibers ranging from the 9mm Luger to .45 ACP. Pick the one you shoot well and are comfortable with. Then get a solid holster and all the training ammo you can afford and find a good instructor to get you started off right. Train, train, train.
When I worked at my local gun store customers to ask me what would be the best self-defense ammo. I will tell them I don't know because I've never used any of the ammo that we sold to defend myself. I'd never shot anybody and recovered the bullet to see how much damage was done to the criminal or the bullet.
People blame the 115gr Silvertip , even though Michael Platt was only hit twice with 9mm Silvertips. One Silvertip wasn’t even a fatal placed shot. The other Silvertip as you stated, barely missed the heart. What’s ALWAYS left out of the 1986 story is that the rest (and majority) of the handgun shots Platt took were from 110gr +P+ .38 specials. 😳😳😳. ..but the feds didn’t complain nor blame their tactical failures on that round. Instead they scapegoated the 9mm.
At the time of that shootout, I was a firearm instructor with DEA. The FBI had just acquired supervision of DEA. Several months later they summoned all the DEA firearm instructors to Quantico to check out our qualifications to be firearms instructors. After a week or so of firing .38/.357 revolvers on their courses, they determined we were capable of doing our jobs. (Most, if not all of us, hadn't carried a revolver as our primary weapon in years.) At the end of the seminar, they gathered us up in a room with several of the "suits" from FBI HQS. On a screen in front of us was the FBI firearms policy, at the time. It was the NRA safe firearms policy for the general public. They were quickly advised that if such a policy was adopted by DEA, a lot of unnecessary shootouts would result. They went on and discussed the disastrous shoot out. None of us had heard much about it except that it was a disaster. After the briefing, the head "suit" asked for everyone that had been in a firefight on the job to raise their hands. Everyone, except for me and one, other raised their hands. That shocked me and the head "suit" staggered and almost fell down. After that, the meeting changed with the "suits" wanting suggestions on avoiding such disasters in the future. There is no doubt in my mind that the 9mm was blamed for that fiasco as a CYA for the failure of proper arrest techniques and tactics, including proper armament. Even with feeling insulted, I really enjoyed the firearms training at that seminar. The FBI had a first-class facility and they introduced me to new tactics, STEEL? what's that all about?
It seems to me that a lot of police departments were switching to 40 S&W, but when the U. S. military switched to the NATO standard 9mm, then the departments began to move to 9mm instead.
The military swap to 9mm was in the early 80s, .40 made its debut in 1990. I think LE just realized that the little bit more oomph of .40 and .45 just wasn't worth the tradeoffs.
It's been said that "education is the process of turning cocksure ignorance into thoughtful uncertainty." You and your videos are living proof. That is, if there's any "education" at all going on here. You should have just said "water is wet."
Affordable (more practice), higher capacity, easier recoil, smaller/lighter guns....I have no interest in going beyond 9mm unless I'm going far beyond (.44mag, hot 10mm etc)
If you look at ammunition loaded to a significant level- 45ACP +P still has 25% more energy than 9mm +P+ and that is with 185 grain bullets in 45ACP at almost the same velocity as 124 grain bullets in 9mm. .357 mag is the standard to judge against- 125 grain bullets for 357 mag can provide up to 80% more energy than 9mm +P+. I don't want anybody shooting at me with any 9mm but if you're trying to defend yourself the 9mm is still pretty far behind some other cartridges.
I remember back in Waco at a strip club. They was a guy so crazy the club call the pd. The frist cop used all his rounds In his 9mm .and the guy was still on his feet his.back up came in a couple minutes .his back up was carried a 45cal and he. Did it with 1 shoot.
You talk about physics a lot but what about the velocity of the 9mm? Since it is on average 200 ft/s faster than 45 ACP. It makes up for the deficiencies in mass no? Energy foot pounds are similar.
Several sources over several years say things change when bullets exceed about 2,000 fps. In my water-jug testing I have to change the penetration factor above 1,800 fps. But, this effect is more art than science and is difficult to pin down precisely.
Physics KE=1/2 m *V (squared). Carry a 45 ACP HP (G30S or HK45c, or if 9 mm something close to FBI load 135 gr +p (Hornady Critical Duty). My HK recommends a 124 gr, minimum. We just had a shooting here in Louisville KY were criminal got into a car in Walmart drive thru, made occupant slide over. LEO unloaded 5-6 rounds into driver side windshield. Only 1 hit in Defendant’s arm. Just saying. Don’t know what type 9mm LMPD uses.
They work in different ways. The .45 delivers a wider (and often deeper) wound channel and serious momentum (I think modern terminal testing shows us that kinetic energy has almost nothing to do with wounding). The .357 Sig, like the .357 revolver cartridge it mimics, delivers higher velocity and dumps its momentum more rapidly. My research years ago with a project at the old Police Marksman magazine, which analyzed detailed reports from officers in officer-involved shootings, suggests good hollow-point loads in the .357 Sig and .45 ACP will give similar results in self-defense shootings.
4” barrel , snub auto’s 3-2” +p+ has no time to speed up. Why smg’s have minimum 5”-12” Barrel.. to gain speed. Stopping power. FMJ over penetration … Ok but get’s 🫀from arm pocket
Has anyone ever actually seen a detailed explanation of exactly HOW this magic 9mm bullet technology works? I've looked and cannot find it I found one video by a guy who claims he knows how this technology works, but didn't describe it. He DID say, "... But this technology applies ONLY to 9mm and it can't be ported to any other caliber..." Hmmm. Not to 380, 38 Special, 38 Super, 357 Magnum, 357 SIG, 40, 44, 45, 32, 454, nothing? Smells like bs to me.
I carry a .22 bobcat in my pocket. All day everyday why ? Because I ask ppl what they carry and they tell me but rarely show me. It’s usually in their car or whatever they don’t actually carry for real
In L.E. I have worked enough and have personal knowledge of other shootings where 9mm was highly effective, 40 s&w, poor performer. No report on the .45 capabilities, carried one for quite sometime though.
Another great video.😊 I have carried both the 9mm and 45acp amongst others over the years and I carry a .38special for 85% of my needs. But when I go tracking or hunting or camping I like to throw on of the others in the mix! I lean towards the 45 myself, but I love my 9 as well! Just my 2 cents Thnks😊
Understanding Firearm Ballistics New 6th Edition - By Robert A. Rinker - Chapter 26, Terminal Ballistics for Self-Defense: page 364; "The FBI tests show the larger diameter bullet opens a larger permanent wound cavity for maximum blood loss. This is old thinking to many gun experts who have preferred the heavier .45 ACP type guns to the lighter and faster 9-mm. page 365; To briefly summarize the results, the .45 ACP did very well in most loads, as did the 10-mm auto. The .357 magnum also did well. .38 Special for the most part didn't do well. The 9-mm performed about the same. Statistically, the 9-mm as a group averaged 5.4% better than the .38 Special but that is still poor by comparison. The 1989 FBI tests leaned more towards the heavy bullet theory." page 367; With handguns, it is hard to go wrong by following the FBI's choice in ammo selection. page 371; The smaller caliber gun is not as effective as a larger one page 372-373; a person armed with the 45 ACP or 45 Colt was able to defend himself very well. THE 9-mm SITUATION from the point of view of ballistics, the disadvantages are far stronger. If the 9-mm requires 13 hits to put someone down who is not drugged up, perhaps it is a poor choice. The FBI and other tests clearly show that from a ballistic point of view, there are better choices. Some experts believe a lot of the erroneous information about the 9-mm pistol. Disregarding the weapons and their mechanics and dwelling strictly on the cartridge ballistics, the 9-mm isn't as good as what it replaced. (The 9-mm replaced various .45 ACPs and .357 magnums.) The 9-mm is not the best. At least from a ballistic point of view.
normal .45 ACP loads are nothing special. .460 Rowland, tho, 60 gr solid copper hp, 2200 fps in a 3.5" long barrel, THAT is impressive on feral dogs. 230 gr .45 jhps are a joke, man. Might as well be ball ammo, which wont reliably stop an alley cat with a chest hit. I"m not kidding. I saw it happen multiple times.
All these people reciting statistics and what they read on paper that someone claims remember statistics can be misleading and you should not take them in complete faith on accuracy
Lets see a .460 Rowland vs 9mm video lol what a joke. Agencies have to cater to the lowest common denominator, women, and people with small hands and weak wrists. Just looking at terminal performance the small bore might compare if its 9x28mm Dillon or even .357 Sig, not 9x19 Luger. .45 Super/SMC or any high pressure .45 using cut down .308 Win brass and XTP bullets is in a league of its own... .45 ACP's true potential revealed. .357 Sig 125 gr and .40 S&W 135 gr hot loads are excellent for small frame pistols, but there is nothing like a .45 magnum.
I hot rodded the .45 in my early days, taking 185 gr bullets north of 1100fps. I have come to the conclusion that precision counts more than raw power with handgun rounds and that generally comes with a bit less recoil. What works for me might be right for you.
Modern mm beat modern ACP & SPL 'S because the later has a velocity issue. So it's true in that aspect. Trust me , I'm a you tude jockey. Lol no prove I'm wrong. Bullet design is Critical in ACP/SPL .
I agree with much of the fact that the 9 mm round is much better and has been so for a couple of decades now than it used to be. I firmly disagree with you that once you get the barrel down to less than 4 in. That it is any more effective than a decent 380. Except an occasional cases. The 40 Smith is clearly Superior and providing a larger permanent wound cavity. I believe you should be shooting the largest caliber you can be accurate with and that's almost always the 40 Smith. It delivers more energy shot to shot, therefore reducing the requirement for a higher round count in the magazine. I carried 9 mm as my primary service weapon, but not often. It's a Argentine military p35, it has a 4.7 inch barrel. You get all the velocity that the 9mm must have to Be an Effective cartridge. The federal 115 grain Le load is a competent load. I prefer the Speer Gold Dot at plus b plus. I believe that that is the best overall round for everything that the 9mm is tasked to do. A 165 grain Speer Gold Dot in 40 caliber at 1200 ft per second which is doable out of the same size package, is considerably Superior to any 9 mm loading that exists that I have been aware of and I've been teaching these things since 1970. The 9mm has never been, a truly competent load until that round came out there were a few Super Bowl loadings that were approaching that in the late 70s. In the 80s it was coming on a bit, and as good as it has gotten, there is a side effect that is disturbing. There are officers out there and civilians at times I believe. That are doing shot to shot splits were there firing more than three rounds a second quite easily. The brain is not capable of making decisions fast enough to justify that fast of delivery. You're literally over running your brain. There is no excuse for firing 3 to 5 rounds into somebody after you've made the decision to stop shooting. And that happens a lot of times with a 9mm. People want it for being able to shoot it so much faster than the 40 smith. There's no reason to shoot at any faster than you can shoot a 40 Smith. Especially considering you are delivering a hit with a 40 Smith that delivers almost 90% greater effect per shot. Thereby reducing your need to shoot faster than you can react, and yet put fewer holes in people, increasing their ability to survive the incident. Just because they have put themselves in a position where you can legally use deadly force does not mean they must die! A lot problems at the FBI has in their deciding what is a good projectile, they categorically disagree that a bullet that fragments is effective and yet, you are old enough because I'm old enough to know for a fact that some of the most effective self-defense rounds ever created fragmented on a regular basis. Did that make it harder for a surgeon to remove chunks of projectile out of someone? Yes it did. What is a heck of a lot better than having to remove four or five rounds out of somebody. If the fight was stopped, the fight was stopped. I agree with you that the best overall caliber for stopping person on person issues, is a 9 mm size bullet running at 1400 ft per second. That has been the highest percentage first shot fight stopper, that we have yet known. But the 9mm doesn't get there, and it only approaches it in very rare loadings. I'll stick with my Browning, my dad had purchased it, it is the most accurate 9mm I have ever witnessed in my life. But I do not depend on it very often. When I finally made the transition into a semi-auto I went with a 40 Smith. But I had been teaching police officers to transition into semi-autos since 1989, 1990. Michigan State Police finally started allowing their police officers to transition into semi-autos. That training was fascinatingly interesting. These guys could work thoroughly competent with a revolver, and could not hit the broadside of a barn with a handful of buckshot when they put a semi-auto in their hand. And I quit counting how many of them I told them to take the Beretta back. The Beretta has a fly in it that has no business in a police officer's holster. The cocking lever could easily get hit if you do a clearance drill, rendering that firearm useless and when you render a firearm useless in the middle of a gunfight, bad things happen.
Excellent lecture. Very informative and a must for any gun guy.
I am 77. Bought my first surplus 1911 at an Ace Hardware store at age 15 in Chicago.
As a navy Corpsman I carried both a rifle and a 1911 in Vietnam. Did a total of 25 months in Nam and only used the 1911 once... but I shot it empty. Three Purple Hearts.
Worked as a contractor for twelve years after I left the Navy. When in locations, such a cities, where I couldn't carry a rifle I carried both a 1911 and a Browning HP. Both with FMJ's. Got out of a couple of scrapes with the two pistols. Came home on a stretcher or wheel chair four times during those twelve years.
Had 15 round mags for the HP. My practice: Use the HP when pray and spray was required. Use the 1911 when necessary. Most often both.
When in the US I carried a 1911 a la Mexican or a S&W 3 in. model 13 with a Barami grip. Illegally of course. No CC back then.
Great money contracting. Paid for college in a foreign country and a U.S. part time night law school. Quit when I got my JD in Chicago in 1979.
Moved to Texas in 1997. I currently carry a Sig 226 or 229 in 357 Sig. I figure the .357 Sig round hits as hard as a .45 but the 226's and 229's have greater capacity. No holster. Clipdraw.
I watched every minute of this great video. Thank you for this information and your time. Agreed on the .45 ACP to 9mm comparison. Relative to higher bullet weight, albeit at a slower velocity, the element of momentum is overlooked by those claiming that 9mm is on level ground with .45 ACP. That could open a discussion on 147 gr bullets, such as Gold Dot or XTP...... driven to 1150 fps and higher, but for another day. Agreed that the 1986 FBI bullet performed exactly as designed. Like yourself I am intrigued by the 90 gr solid copper Defender, but only if loaded by Underwood at +P+. Wilson Combat isn't running the velocity as hot as needed. And I honestly believed you would summarize that 9mm was "adequate"....I should have bet on it. A subtopic to this video (and you may have previously discussed it) is the growing dominance of 9mm micro guns, ex. 3" barrels. I carry a G19 but my tendency is to move up to a G17, not the other direction. A 1911 9mm is very intriguing as well. New subscriber.
The medical examiners report did say it was the Silvertip bullet that killed Platt.
Agee to a point but Underwood loads a 185 grain +P at 1200 FPS this kinda takes care of the 147 grain 9mm in my opinion.
You must test the Beretta PX4 9mm for science 👨🔬 edit: It got the rotating bolt and it would be good to know if it handles +P and +P+ loads with notably less recoil than other platforms. PX4 was originally built for the .40 S&W so its beefed up.
@@richardwhite2836 except you can't get fast repeat hits with it, using a lw, compact pistol. and to hell with your claims of never missing, never having people who dont stop even with 00 buck blasts and never having more than one attacker.
@@boostimalaka1 he was shot in the head/neck 3x and the neck hit is what finished him off. He fought on for 3 minutes after taking the silvertip to his arm/lung. Not the sort of performance you want in your carry pistol.
Videos are NOT boring or dry. Very good wisdom and expert you’re imparting. Much appreciated
Thanks!
Great article! I started my law enforcement career with the Border Patrol in 1964 and was around for the changes from .38 /.357 revolvers, to .45 1911s, and wound up with the 15 round 9mm pistols.
I completely agree with you about .45 vs. 9mm.
To show how things change, when I was on the river with the Border Patrol, we had six shot .38 Spcl. revolvers and carried an extra six rounds of ammo on our river belts. I usually carried a few wadcutter rounds in my pockets for dispatching rattlesnakes. Before I retired, we were carrying 9mm sub machine guns and 15 shot pistols.
I really appreciate you sharing your experiences and analysis of the more modern ammo.
Glad you enjoyed it, more to come.
My first duty gun was a S&W model 66. I did get to carry a 1911 twice in my career. My first 9mm duty gun was the Sig P226. I ended up carrying a Glock 23 when I retired. I loved polymer guns because it seemed like every year we added something to our duty belts. My duty belt was a chunk when I retired.
I'm to this day a 1911 fan. Thanks for your service Sir.
When the Sig P226 came out, I bought one, still have it. It is a good shooter, but I hate the first-round trigger pull.@@kevinramsey3490
Were you guys carrying long guns in your vehicles back then? In my time I have only carried 45 caliber Glocks in one form or another.
They are talking about transitioning back to 9mm, but my agency has a checkered past with the 9 and it’s not the most popular idea with guys who have enough time on to remember. I was in one of the first academy classes of recruits to be issued a 45 and the stories from our range instructors were not positive about the 9, especially in one particular infamous shooting.
I love to hear how things were back in the old days. I’m a 15 year cop and even in that relatively short time this job has changed. Unfortunately not for the better. I’m scared to think how it will be when I retire. 🇺🇸
And thanks for your service. The Border Patrol has a long tradition of top shooters in both competition and fights.
absolutely on point with any improvement on a caliber it goes across the board with regard to pistol caliber rounds.
I've been shooting and studing ballistics since 1986, and for the first time I watched a video with a guy that I agree 100%!!! Congratulations for your very instructive and enlightening video!
Thank you, check the rest of my self-defense caliber series.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb for sure!
147gr is currently the most popular LE projectile in 9mm Most new LE 9mm is introduced as 147gr. 135 and 124gr are also common…Im not sure who is still using 115gr in LE.
These video's got me hooked, I cant stop watching them.
Well done with realistic commentary.
Another great one, Dick! You expressed my take on the 9mm about as concisely as it could be stated.
1911's are not obsolete. The only thing that seems to go in and out of fashion, is the ability of people to appreciate the strengths of the 1911. Now they are back big time with 9mm!
Great series! I always wanted a 1911 .45 so I got myself a beautiful Kimber. As a retired LEO I mostly carried a Glock .40, I still have that weapon but my EDC is a Glock 27 with a G23 mag so I am looking forward to your .40 video. Thanks for your many years of service!
Thanks for your service as well, .40 is up next.
I still carry a 45acp not to say I don’t have a 9mm I do but my father went through ww2 and he always bragged on the 45 so I roll with it
Typical boomer
Typical boomer
And that’s ok!
45, like a 9, but for men
Yeah class and intelligence @@JackHoff-cz3eq
Interesting and informative, thanks for sharing your ideas, opinions, and experience! I really enjoy your pots, it's like being one on one with a classroom setting..
I like this series a lot, and I hope you continue it! I'll be excited to hear your thoughts on 40 & 45, but I'd really look forward to hearing what you think of 38spl, 357mag, and 44spl. Thanks for the videos!
Glad you enjoy them.
On the way.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb Can't wait! I prefer carrying a revolver, and while there is plenty of ballistic gel evidence out there, I've always wondered how those cartridges perform in the real world (shot-for-shot) when stacked up against more popular auto loader cartridges. Thank you, sir.
I'd rather have 15, 40 S&W than 17, 9mm but I'm good with 13, 45 ACP. I just think that my G22 with 180 grain Fed HST's is the perfect balance for me, really my G21SF carries just as well, so... If you're really worried about concealing your pistol, then by all means go to a 9mm - they are really much smaller and easy to conceal. So is a small j-frame sized revolver. I just dress to cover - I'm not worried about looking stylish. And if somebody does notice or "think" that I'm armed... no big deal. I live in Texas and open carry is legal. Thanks Dick - enjoy your vids.
Agree Same Here!!!!!
I carried for 28 years LE in L.A. On top of that, another 6 years (34 years total LE) with a 45acp. Now retired, I switched to .40 and alternate my EDC with a .357 Sig on some days. I 💙 recoil and a harder hitting bullet. My double-taps are just fine on target with a .40.
Former Army infantry it's ironic I do the same depending on my mood most of the time it's a model 22 Glock or the model 32 in 357 Sig I prefer both of those cartridges on the streets
I'm not easily impressed but the commander is awesome. Learn something new everyday. Super interesting.
I really enjoy your videos. I shot 9mm, .40, & .45acp all using Federal HST. I used the short barreled carry pistols that are generally used now into ballistic gel. If anyone thinks the 9mm is as good as the other two, I most definitely can prove that isn't correct.
A friend of mine, long time ago was an assassin. He uses 45 acp most of the time and 357. He was shot 17 times and survived. So talk to him after a couple of months. I told him you're a tough guy dude, are you using magic or something. You survived 17 gunshot wounds including 1 in the head. WTH his answer, I got lucky. The killer was using 9mm. If it's 45 acp or 357, I am not here anymore. lols
I own a CZ 75 P07 Duty with an 18-round magazine, but I cary 1 up hammer down, so my 1st shot will be D/A. My trigger is excellent on that CZ, but I learned to shoot with a revolver, in other words, D/A on each shot. I have a military background and in actual wars as well.
I can draw my CZ and put 5 shots in a target in just over 3 seconds, 3 in the chest, and 2 in the head or throat area. I use Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P, a very nice round.
You can judge the character of a man by the way he treats his dogs.
Thank you. We had to put Bud down a year ago, Cushings disease. I think Ginger misses him the most, she would pick a fight with him several times a day. Now she picks a fight with me.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb IT'S HARD TO LOSE THEM.... THEY ARE THE BEST PEOPLE I KNOW...
I seem to recall long ago reading a column by a G&A author (I think it was Elmer Keith) where he claimed the Illinois State Police was having reliability and durability issues with their S&W Model 39 pistols. This was several decades back, either the late 1970s or the 1980s. I don't remember the reason for the problems, but when you mentioned the ammo switch, it triggered that old memory cell. Personally, I've always loved the look and feel of the Model 39, but I detested the trigger pull, awkward safety, and lack of elevation adjustment. During that era I owned a number of 9mm pistols, but never carried them. I was devoted to the 45 ACP and still have my customized 1977 Commander. As you pointed out, HP loads were not as dependable at penetration and expansion as they are now, plus very few stock auto pistols would reliably feed them. I did not switch to 9mm until Kel-Tec came out with their P11. It was the small size, light weight, high magazine capacity, and DAO trigger that most influenced this decision, not bullet expansion. While I carry modern HP loads, I've never put my faith in bullet performance from any handgun because the ballistic potential is far too marginal.
Awesome video! I'm a 45 guy. I do own 9mm pistols as well. I carry a compact 45 for my CC. To each his own, but I'll trust my life to my 45s.
Never abandoned 40
Having watched your previous videos, this title had me scratching my head.
Why? More people carry a 9mm than any other caliber.
Very nice vid . I have always liked the 45acp , I have never believed all of the hype about the 9mm . Not to say that I don't like and carry the 9mm . The 9mm +P or +P+ can be a great round to carry , but still not as good as the 45acp in my opinion . Hickok 45 sent me here , thanks and I have Subscribed ...
Thirty years ago I considered the 9x19 as just a glorified 38 Special for use in a semiautomatic pistol. Now I’m willing to admit that the 9x19 is adequate for self defense because of the improvements in cartridges and arms. BTW you should have included the 9x18 Makarov in the discussion. I know that ammunition availability and cost may be an issue at this time but from the limited amount of data I can find it appears to be a step up from the 380. I’ve never shot or owned a Makarov but the thought has always intrigued me. Just a thought for you to consider. 😊
There are advantages and disadvantages to all cartridges. The .45 acp pistols are heavier, kick more and the .45 ammo cost a good bit more. Cost matters. Recoil matters and cost matters. After working in law enforcement for nearly 38 years I have formed some opinions. I had rather have a .45 for kicking down doors for searches or serving high risk warrants. For patrol I strongly prefer the 9mm. Two things I didn't mention is case capacity and ease of getting good shot placement. Twenty-five years ago you couldn't run fast enough to give me a 9mm. Today the ammo is so much better.
The 9mm is load dependent IMO as a retired 1811 I am convinced it is the speed that you should be after. My agency had great effect with the Federal 115gr +P+ the federal border patrols first 10 shootings were 10 one shot stops. DeKalb County PD and the Secret service praised this round.
The army’s “new” Winchester M1152 training rounds for the 9mm is running chamber pressures of 39,700psi. That’s definitely a hot round and you can feel it at the range. That said, it’s still a 9mm and there isn’t really that much difference in recoil.
I shot some in a P365 and you can definitely feel it. I won't carry it in the 365. OK for G19X and PCCs.
It has impressed me with its performance in penetration tests. Probably due to the flat nose bullet.
Thank you for your service and info
Very informative as always. Thanks for sharing.
My load of choice is the remington golden saber +p 124gr bonded jacketed hollow point. For a handful of reasons. 1, it's regularly stocked at my local hardware store. 2, my pistal is sprung for +p 124gr projectiles. 3, we always knew that under any condition that a 9mm bullet could expand, the golden saber would. Now that it's bonded, it's like "welcome to the club, little brother."
With all due respect to your experience when stating that the 45 is “superior” to the 9mm “as a simple fact” because it carries “twice the weight” is an oversimplification. I understand that you are still recommending the 9mm as a defense carry despite that “fact,” and I respect all the reasons why, including # of rounds/magazine. And I fully agree. A large study which you are well aware of showed no real difference between 380 up to 45 in real world shooting encounters and their results.
Furthermore, what matters when a bullet strikes an attacking target is a) accuracy and b) energy transfer (not weight).
Kinetic energy is = 1/2MVsquared. Velocity is to the exponential and Mass isn’t. Velocity of projectile is far far more important than weight. THAT is called Physics sir.
Good discussion. 👍🏼
Great stuff. Look forward to 10mm.
Your perspective on the 9mm is Spot-On , IMO . There are definitely harder hitting cartridges than the 9mm , but like you said , "the 9mm is good enough". Coincidentally , I started carrying a Glock 48 primarily for the reason you stated.......grip size . I find it more comfortable than a double-stack and easier to conceal . Prior to the G-48 , I usually carried a S&W 3" mod.65 .357mag . My dad was a L.E.O. going back to late 60s' so I've been sold on the .357 ever since , and it will ultimately always be my "go-to" cartridge . The truth is I've carried just about all the calibers at one time or another , so I guess the most effective caliber is the one you're carrying that day . Great video , and Thank You for your Law Enforcement Service !
Thanks for your kind words.
What’s your take on the “extra lethality” argument surrounding the carrying of hand loads given factory loads containing frangible high velocity bullets and the fluid transfer Lehighs?
I have never felt carrying a handload with enhanced performance would cause you a problem. Opposing counsel will attack you every which way they can, including if you created "custom killer bullets." Those arguments are all smoke and mirrors but in todays political climate your battle will be uphill which ever load you use.
Years ago I was at an ammo plant doing consulting work and I had some pre-release Winchester Black Talon bullets I had tested in water jugs. The expanded points were literally like an eagle's talon, razor sharp. The owner of the ammo company was aghast, he called them "killer bullets." I said, "Steve, they're all killer bullets, we don't generally shoot people we like. Doing as much damage as possible is the main idea."
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb Yes, smoke and mirrors originating from a position of ignorance. Why would my .38 Super 147 grain JHP’s at 1175 fps be treated any differently than Buffalo Bore’s at the same performance? I’m not even sure how anyone could tell the difference.
Agreed. Thanks Dick. I recommended your windshield vid in my recent video about the Glock 30S.
Thank you.
I agree with all this. I started carrying 45 years ago and love it dearly, especially out of my 1911 or my Glock 30. I have said for a long time that it is curious to me that All these 9 mm fanboys keep praising how good it has come, but they don't mention that it has to be in +p or +p+ that the guns weren't designed for and every single manufacturer tells you not to feed a steady diet of. Now, after my back surgeries, I had to carry smaller pistols... Yes some of them are 9 mm, but I have recently gotten into the .40 game for edc and really like it. I'm hoping it makes a comeback.
I think the death of the .40 is itself a myth. MANY LE agencies and individuals still carry the .40. The 9mm lovers want you to think the .40 is dead, and its popularity is down, but it is far from dead.
I’ve seen some reviewers claiming the fluted projectiles act like a tumbling bullet instead of the manufacture’s claim. Huge disruptions towards the middle of the gel block with the bullet facing backwards.
Bullets that don't deform (expand or fragment) will ALWAYS eventually invert if the media track is deep enough. The FTM bullets don't tumble (over and over) they invert because the center of gravity is towards the base. The rifling spin keeps them point forward in flight through the air but NO amount of spin will keep them point forward in a denser medium (water, tissue, etc.) That is why they come to rest facing backwards. During the bullet's spin to base forward, the temporary cavity in gelatin is larger, but the bulk of the big disruption is the fluid jetting effect of the flutes before the bullet inverts.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb Thank you for the clarification. And for the great content.
I either carry a 9mm or a 10mm. If I need extra power and size the 10 in my opinion is better than the 45 and I get more capacity
Nice Series, you should do videos like this on other calibers such as the 40, 45, and 10mm. Thanks!
Thanks, they are on the way.
Wasn't Platt killed by a 38 caliber? I believe it was the 158 grain LSWC HP +P?
I believe so. A friend is compiling data for a book on that shootout. But yes, I believe a Winchester "SPD" load from a snubbie ended the fight. The SPD was Winchester's version of the 158 LSW HP +P.
The problem of those fluted all copper bullets is that they have difficulty chambering in a Glock. I had three failure to chamber malfunctions in a 40-round string of fire.
I really like your videos. But I gotta ask you, where can I get a T.Roosevelt T-shirt like you have. I am one of his admirers too.
My daughter gave me that shirt years ago. I just Googled: Teodore Roosevelt T-shirts and found a lot of similar ones.
@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb OK thanks
Outstanding content
The Medical Examiner said the Silvertip bullet killed Platt. Interesting learning that in an In Service course on handgun ammunition.
Wasn't that shootout ended by a .38?
I am retired Marine Corps (68-88)and I frequent the firearms section of the Exchange. I am a big fan of the 1911 since I carried it and qualified with the pistol darn near for 20 years and if it had not been for the 9mm I would have. Their happen to be a young Marine singing the phrase of large capacity magazines and was critics of singe stack magazines and the pistols that used them. I stuck my nose in and found out he was a machine gunner and wanted a lot of ammo since one shot one kill was impossible. Than I ask him if he was a sniper would we be having this conversation and he drew a blank got mad and left. The local range I am a member of is owned and ran by retired Marines. One of the range officers is a friend on mine. He tells me how bad a shot the active duty Marines are shooting their civilians purchased AR15 and 9 mm pistols. For the rifles the distance is not that far but 50 yards most of their groups are very large and shot off of a bench. I don’t know what they do at the military ranges anymore but marksmanship anymore.
Thanks for your service. I have read the USMC has now discontinued their entire Scout/Sniper program and MOS??? When the Army dropped sniper training after Viet Nam, the Marines kept training the extremely powerful and cost effective "weapons system" that snipers are. Our entire military is going woke in a hurry.
Great video
I like the underwood 147gr gold dot +p+. That stuff hits pretty good if your trained
Second best is 135 +p+ critical duty imo. But don’t shoot it all the time too much wear!
My agency is one of the final holdouts of .357 Sig. We are transitioning to 9mm in 2024.
A continuing trend.
Which agency is that??? I'm assuming you are only transitioning due to budget...certainly it's not for lack of performance if you are downgrading to a 9mm...
I’m partial to the +P+ loads in 9mm.
That put me in .357 Sig territory. When the Sig came out I thought it was, and still do, the cat’s meow.
All defensive caliber handguns are marginal at best. Give me a 12 or an AR.
@@AugustusMcCrae-e8h it's still weaker and i can't see it being a smart option to use loads a company won't stand behind if your pistol goes boom. Is there a gun company that will "ok" the use of +P+ rounds down the barrel?
I have a gun in just half of all the handgun calibers and carry a 9 on the job and the two incidents i was in i was wishing i had my 45acp
I’m in a state that limits mags and hand guns to 10 rounds…also I would rather have a round that stays inside a target and not pass through while having stopping power but reducing the potential harm of an innocent bystander….what round would you suggest in this scenario for carrying? To stop a threat with fewer rounds yet limit the chance of passing through and injuring an innocent? Also a manageable recoil to allow for more accuracy and be able to carry concealed with not too much difficulty? Your input would be greatly appreciated. I’m new to your channel which I enjoy with your no nonsense content and approach to explaining things and new to concealed carry.. a pistol or revolver is one of my dilemmas although I may prefer a hammer fired weapon as opposed to a striker fired one
As long as you don't carry deep penetrating loads intended for bear defense, over penetration isn't a serious issue. I am not aware of a single incident where a CCW shooter's bullet has fully penetrated a bad guy then injured someone downrange. I know of a few involving police officers, but even those are generally settled with minimum fuss. I suggest you try several pistols in calibers ranging from the 9mm Luger to .45 ACP. Pick the one you shoot well and are comfortable with. Then get a solid holster and all the training ammo you can afford and find a good instructor to get you started off right. Train, train, train.
When I worked at my local gun store customers to ask me what would be the best self-defense ammo. I will tell them I don't know because I've never used any of the ammo that we sold to defend myself. I'd never shot anybody and recovered the bullet to see how much damage was done to the criminal or the bullet.
Few of us have, so we can look to scientifically valid testing done in water or calibrated 10% ballistic gelatin.
People blame the 115gr Silvertip , even though Michael Platt was only hit twice with 9mm Silvertips. One Silvertip wasn’t even a fatal placed shot. The other Silvertip as you stated, barely missed the heart. What’s ALWAYS left out of the 1986 story is that the rest (and majority) of the handgun shots Platt took were from 110gr +P+ .38 specials. 😳😳😳. ..but the feds didn’t complain nor blame their tactical failures on that round. Instead they scapegoated the 9mm.
At the time of that shootout, I was a firearm instructor with DEA. The FBI had just acquired supervision of DEA. Several months later they summoned all the DEA firearm instructors to Quantico to check out our qualifications to be firearms instructors. After a week or so of firing .38/.357 revolvers on their courses, they determined we were capable of doing our jobs. (Most, if not all of us, hadn't carried a revolver as our primary weapon in years.)
At the end of the seminar, they gathered us up in a room with several of the "suits" from FBI HQS. On a screen in front of us was the FBI firearms policy, at the time. It was the NRA safe firearms policy for the general public. They were quickly advised that if such a policy was adopted by DEA, a lot of unnecessary shootouts would result.
They went on and discussed the disastrous shoot out. None of us had heard much about it except that it was a disaster. After the briefing, the head "suit" asked for everyone that had been in a firefight on the job to raise their hands. Everyone, except for me and one, other raised their hands. That shocked me and the head "suit" staggered and almost fell down.
After that, the meeting changed with the "suits" wanting suggestions on avoiding such disasters in the future.
There is no doubt in my mind that the 9mm was blamed for that fiasco as a CYA for the failure of proper arrest techniques and tactics, including proper armament.
Even with feeling insulted, I really enjoyed the firearms training at that seminar. The FBI had a first-class facility and they introduced me to new tactics, STEEL? what's that all about?
The autopsy report showed a tremendous amount of internal blood loss in Platt. It was a fatal wound, just not fast fatal against a determined person.
@@appleiphone69The Medical Examiner autopsy report did indicate the Silvertip killed Platt.
It seems to me that a lot of police departments were switching to 40 S&W, but when the U. S. military switched to the NATO standard 9mm, then the departments began to move to 9mm instead.
The military swap to 9mm was in the early 80s, .40 made its debut in 1990.
I think LE just realized that the little bit more oomph of .40 and .45 just wasn't worth the tradeoffs.
It's been said that "education is the process of turning cocksure ignorance into thoughtful uncertainty." You and your videos are living proof. That is, if there's any "education" at all going on here. You should have just said "water is wet."
I agree with you a 100% but I think 9 mm is popular because the affordability of the ammunition
Affordable (more practice), higher capacity, easier recoil, smaller/lighter guns....I have no interest in going beyond 9mm unless I'm going far beyond (.44mag, hot 10mm etc)
My favorite 9mm defense ammo is Federal HST 124+P or the Speer Gold Dot 124+P
If you look at ammunition loaded to a significant level- 45ACP +P still has 25% more energy than 9mm +P+ and that is with 185 grain bullets in 45ACP at almost the same velocity as 124 grain bullets in 9mm. .357 mag is the standard to judge against- 125 grain bullets for 357 mag can provide up to 80% more energy than 9mm +P+. I don't want anybody shooting at me with any 9mm but if you're trying to defend yourself the 9mm is still pretty far behind some other cartridges.
I remember back in Waco at a strip club. They was a guy so crazy the club call the pd. The frist cop used all his rounds In his 9mm .and the guy was still on his feet his.back up came in a couple minutes .his back up was carried a 45cal and he. Did it with 1 shoot.
You talk about physics a lot but what about the velocity of the 9mm? Since it is on average 200 ft/s faster than 45 ACP. It makes up for the deficiencies in mass no? Energy foot pounds are similar.
I was recently told 2300-2500 fps is required for explosive cavitation
Several sources over several years say things change when bullets exceed about 2,000 fps. In my water-jug testing I have to change the penetration factor above 1,800 fps. But, this effect is more art than science and is difficult to pin down precisely.
The only reason it is , is because it’s the cheapest option!! I’ve said exactly what you are saying for years !
Physics KE=1/2 m *V (squared). Carry a 45 ACP HP (G30S or HK45c, or if 9 mm something close to FBI load 135 gr +p (Hornady Critical Duty). My HK recommends a 124 gr, minimum.
We just had a shooting here in Louisville KY were criminal got into a car in Walmart drive thru, made occupant slide over. LEO unloaded 5-6 rounds into driver side windshield. Only 1 hit in Defendant’s arm. Just saying. Don’t know what type 9mm LMPD uses.
Shooting through a car windshield is problematic.
What’s your opinion on 357 sig vs 45 auto in terms of effectiveness?
They work in different ways. The .45 delivers a wider (and often deeper) wound channel and serious momentum (I think modern terminal testing shows us that kinetic energy has almost nothing to do with wounding). The .357 Sig, like the .357 revolver cartridge it mimics, delivers higher velocity and dumps its momentum more rapidly. My research years ago with a project at the old Police Marksman magazine, which analyzed detailed reports from officers in officer-involved shootings, suggests good hollow-point loads in the .357 Sig and .45 ACP will give similar results in self-defense shootings.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jbThanks for the reply
1 of the reason 9mm for military. . Is you can get extra rounds. Of others.troops. on the. Battle feild.
Will the CZ75 handle the 9mm+p+??
Ieon sights, the manuap shift of the gun world
What about fiocchi ammo? Your thoughts?
I've shot quite a bit of it over the years and I think it is quality ammunition.
4” barrel , snub auto’s 3-2” +p+ has no time to speed up.
Why smg’s have minimum 5”-12”
Barrel.. to gain speed. Stopping power.
FMJ over penetration …
Ok but get’s 🫀from arm pocket
Sig hollowpoint is the worst to feed in a auto
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My personal experience with the Kahr was that the one's I shot were not reliable.
I had a mid-size .40 S&W Kahr that was not reliable. I've had two CW9 pistols for both my and my wife's CCW pistols and they run perfectly.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb I really like your videos. Keep up the good work!
Has anyone ever actually seen a detailed explanation of exactly HOW this magic 9mm bullet technology works?
I've looked and cannot find it
I found one video by a guy who claims he knows how this technology works, but didn't describe it.
He DID say, "... But this technology applies ONLY to 9mm and it can't be ported to any other caliber..."
Hmmm. Not to 380, 38 Special, 38 Super, 357 Magnum, 357 SIG, 40, 44, 45, 32, 454, nothing?
Smells like bs to me.
I carry a .22 bobcat in my pocket. All day everyday why ? Because I ask ppl what they carry and they tell me but rarely show me. It’s usually in their car or whatever they don’t actually carry for real
In L.E. I have worked enough and have personal knowledge of other shootings where 9mm was highly effective, 40 s&w, poor performer. No report on the .45 capabilities, carried one for quite sometime though.
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Another great video.😊
I have carried both the 9mm and 45acp amongst others over the years and I carry a .38special for 85% of my needs.
But when I go tracking or hunting or camping I like to throw on of the others in the mix! I lean towards the 45 myself, but I love my 9 as well!
Just my 2 cents
Thnks😊
NATO 9mm standard is, has been, 124gr at 1250fps
Speer's 155 Gold Dot 40 S&W police load is 1250fps.
Do the math
Understanding Firearm Ballistics New 6th Edition - By Robert A. Rinker -
Chapter 26, Terminal Ballistics for Self-Defense:
page 364;
"The FBI tests show the larger diameter bullet opens a larger permanent wound cavity for maximum blood loss. This is old thinking to many gun experts who have preferred the heavier .45 ACP type guns to the lighter and faster 9-mm.
page 365;
To briefly summarize the results, the .45 ACP did very well in most loads, as did the 10-mm auto. The .357 magnum also did well. .38 Special for the most part didn't do well. The 9-mm performed about the same. Statistically, the 9-mm as a group averaged 5.4% better than the .38 Special but that is still poor by comparison.
The 1989 FBI tests leaned more towards the heavy bullet theory."
page 367;
With handguns, it is hard to go wrong by following the FBI's choice in ammo selection.
page 371;
The smaller caliber gun is not as effective as a larger one
page 372-373;
a person armed with the 45 ACP or 45 Colt was able to defend himself very well.
THE 9-mm SITUATION from the point of view of ballistics, the disadvantages are far stronger.
If the 9-mm requires 13 hits to put someone down who is not drugged up, perhaps it is a poor choice. The FBI and other tests clearly show that from a ballistic point of view, there are better choices. Some experts believe a lot of the erroneous information about the 9-mm pistol. Disregarding the weapons and their mechanics and dwelling strictly on the cartridge ballistics, the 9-mm isn't as good as what it replaced. (The 9-mm replaced various .45 ACPs and .357 magnums.) The 9-mm is not the best. At least from a ballistic point of view.
Enjoy your video's Dick! I would like to hear your opinion on the 357sig.
Look for the cartridige video I called the "Super 9mms." I cover the .357 Sig, 9x23 and .38 Super.
normal .45 ACP loads are nothing special. .460 Rowland, tho, 60 gr solid copper hp, 2200 fps in a 3.5" long barrel, THAT is impressive on feral dogs. 230 gr .45 jhps are a joke, man. Might as well be ball ammo, which wont reliably stop an alley cat with a chest hit. I"m not kidding. I saw it happen multiple times.
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All these people reciting statistics and what they read on paper that someone claims remember statistics can be misleading and you should not take them in complete faith on accuracy
Forty Five and stay alive
Lets see a .460 Rowland vs 9mm video lol what a joke. Agencies have to cater to the lowest common denominator, women, and people with small hands and weak wrists. Just looking at terminal performance the small bore might compare if its 9x28mm Dillon or even .357 Sig, not 9x19 Luger. .45 Super/SMC or any high pressure .45 using cut down .308 Win brass and XTP bullets is in a league of its own... .45 ACP's true potential revealed.
.357 Sig 125 gr and .40 S&W 135 gr hot loads are excellent for small frame pistols, but there is nothing like a .45 magnum.
I hot rodded the .45 in my early days, taking 185 gr bullets north of 1100fps. I have come to the conclusion that precision counts more than raw power with handgun rounds and that generally comes with a bit less recoil. What works for me might be right for you.
Yes but those guys in florida were on drugs
Good content. Suggest that you not wear dark colored shirts when demonstrating dark colored weapons. And, don’t move the gun around so much. Thanks.
I'll keep those suggestions in mind.
What makes a person want to shoot a mountain lion for sport? Disgusting
Apparently they taste great from what ive heard
They kill horses!
The FBI never claimed the 9 Luger is as good as the .45 Auto. Try reformulating your argument without the lame strawman fallacy.
Actually, an FBI guy did make that statement at a LE conference I attended. I didn't make it up.
Modern mm beat modern ACP & SPL 'S because the later has a velocity issue. So it's true in that aspect.
Trust me , I'm a you tude jockey. Lol no prove I'm wrong.
Bullet design is Critical in ACP/SPL .
I seen a video once on a guy that manufacturers .45 acp lugers. The lugerman. He still makes them today if im not mistaken.
He does, I believe ... at a steep price with mixed reviews.
I agree with much of the fact that the 9 mm round is much better and has been so for a couple of decades now than it used to be. I firmly disagree with you that once you get the barrel down to less than 4 in. That it is any more effective than a decent 380. Except an occasional cases. The 40 Smith is clearly Superior and providing a larger permanent wound cavity. I believe you should be shooting the largest caliber you can be accurate with and that's almost always the 40 Smith. It delivers more energy shot to shot, therefore reducing the requirement for a higher round count in the magazine.
I carried 9 mm as my primary service weapon, but not often. It's a Argentine military p35, it has a 4.7 inch barrel. You get all the velocity that the 9mm must have to Be an Effective cartridge. The federal 115 grain Le load is a competent load. I prefer the Speer Gold Dot at plus b plus. I believe that that is the best overall round for everything that the 9mm is tasked to do. A 165 grain Speer Gold Dot in 40 caliber at 1200 ft per second which is doable out of the same size package, is considerably Superior to any 9 mm loading that exists that I have been aware of and I've been teaching these things since 1970. The 9mm has never been, a truly competent load until that round came out there were a few Super Bowl loadings that were approaching that in the late 70s. In the 80s it was coming on a bit, and as good as it has gotten, there is a side effect that is disturbing. There are officers out there and civilians at times I believe. That are doing shot to shot splits were there firing more than three rounds a second quite easily. The brain is not capable of making decisions fast enough to justify that fast of delivery. You're literally over running your brain. There is no excuse for firing 3 to 5 rounds into somebody after you've made the decision to stop shooting. And that happens a lot of times with a 9mm. People want it for being able to shoot it so much faster than the 40 smith. There's no reason to shoot at any faster than you can shoot a 40 Smith. Especially considering you are delivering a hit with a 40 Smith that delivers almost 90% greater effect per shot. Thereby reducing your need to shoot faster than you can react, and yet put fewer holes in people, increasing their ability to survive the incident.
Just because they have put themselves in a position where you can legally use deadly force does not mean they must die!
A lot problems at the FBI has in their deciding what is a good projectile, they categorically disagree that a bullet that fragments is effective and yet, you are old enough because I'm old enough to know for a fact that some of the most effective self-defense rounds ever created fragmented on a regular basis. Did that make it harder for a surgeon to remove chunks of projectile out of someone? Yes it did. What is a heck of a lot better than having to remove four or five rounds out of somebody. If the fight was stopped, the fight was stopped. I agree with you that the best overall caliber for stopping person on person issues, is a 9 mm size bullet running at 1400 ft per second. That has been the highest percentage first shot fight stopper, that we have yet known. But the 9mm doesn't get there, and it only approaches it in very rare loadings.
I'll stick with my Browning, my dad had purchased it, it is the most accurate 9mm I have ever witnessed in my life. But I do not depend on it very often. When I finally made the transition into a semi-auto I went with a 40 Smith. But I had been teaching police officers to transition into semi-autos since 1989, 1990. Michigan State Police finally started allowing their police officers to transition into semi-autos. That training was fascinatingly interesting. These guys could work thoroughly competent with a revolver, and could not hit the broadside of a barn with a handful of buckshot when they put a semi-auto in their hand. And I quit counting how many of them I told them to take the Beretta back. The Beretta has a fly in it that has no business in a police officer's holster. The cocking lever could easily get hit if you do a clearance drill, rendering that firearm useless and when you render a firearm useless in the middle of a gunfight, bad things happen.
i have always heard the 1911 was carried cocked and locked is this incorrect.