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Sorry, my ability to write comments seems to be limited. I can just do replies. I think it's because the Separatists, where companies, the Rebelion, where individuals. Building thousands of Droids was far more complicated, it took large kilometre long factories to build the Separatists army. Most star fighters were custom built in garages around the Empire.
Well, think of it. The guy who ran the enemy was the emperor. SO gues who knows where all the droids to scrap were? Yeah, after 20 years I doubt there were droids laying around. Besided knowing all the factories and deployments, he can offer a bounty for scraping them, and most people, beleiving the propaganda would simply be more than hapy to not only make certain that no droid can be reporgramed or reverse engineered but take a slightly higher payment, even if the process took more time and effort and was grueling over all. In fact, I'm sure they would be fine turning it into the emprires scrap yards for cheap. I;m usre it was law too.
More than likely, I'd imagine them not wanting to be associated with the Separatist forces, making them seem like the "enemies of democracy" towards inner core worlds. Even though they already appear like that, it'd look even worse on their part
In what way do the rebels appear like "enemies of democracy" in the current Star Wars canon? My viewpoint of the rebels is that they are enemies of autocracy/ dictatorship. I agree that them using CIS droids would cause confusion and change their public appearance in that way, but otherwise, how is it that they come across as anti-democracy?
@@enbentzIt'd be easier to paint them that way with Imperial propaganda. ThebRebels don't have the same far reaching state media that the Empire has, and the CIS is still pretty fresh jn many people's minds.
@@seifer447 yes, I agreed to that in my comment. It seems you've misunderstood. I'm asking how they come across as anti-democracy in current canon where they are not using CIS droids.
Yes! Let’s not forget Order 66 and how that went down. Funding was an issue. The empire had more control in the droid market. The rebels were forced to use guerrilla warfare
That still didn't stop the Rebel Alliance from utilizing CIS starships, vehicles, weapons, equipment and droids too. There are numerous examples of this being done with Droidekas, B1s, Lucrehulk-class Battleships, Providence class Dreadnoughts and more.
It would have been interesting to see Kalani join the Rebel Alliance as he helps formulate tactics and strategies, and lead the Droids salvaged from abandoned CIS factories.
@Homer They would need to get the resources to craft everything from ships, to blasters, to microships, etc. Those things can be tracked. Remember how trawn found their base in rebels by comparing their escape routes. A large amount of large ore is way easier to track.
Lucrahulks could be be used to manufacture near a hidden system until fully mobilized. That means only that system could be used by it. No info going in and out until time.
I’ve said this before but I wanted General Kalani to show up in the Rebels finale with a small fleet of Separatist ships and droid fighters to help Ezra defeat Thrawn.
Despite the numerous factors that made battle droids unappealing for the Rebel Alliance there was one area where battle droids could have made the Alliance's lives much easier without harming their image much: Ship crews. Manpower was a huge issue for the alliance and being able to actually man the chronically undermanned capital ships of the alliance with droids could have made a world of difference. Unfortunately, with the majority of the rebel leadership being core worlders this was unlikely to be ever considered by the Alliance as a viable option.
I’ve been thinking about this thing recently, it wouldn’t break the lore or even be all that unusual to see in canon. CIS assets probably WERE used and we just haven’t seen it on screen often. CIS planets and rebel planets probably overlapped a lot. There were also probably CIS vets in the rebel alliance. More extreme rebel partisans would probably not care about the image conflicts with using CIS assets. I thought it would be incredibly cool to see rebel star fighter livery on CIS star fighters. (Y wing paint on hyenas, A wing paint on trifighters etc). Or even battle droids customized by their living compatriots or themselves (poor upkeep and less memory wipes could cause an emergence of personalities like R2 and other “main character” droids)
There was at least one early rebel faction (helped/led by nightswan in the newer thrawn books) that did use droid forces, though I think that was mainly buzz and vulture droids
The droid army was given a shutdown order because it was a literally manufactured threat by Palpatine. If the Empire had any sense it would decommission most of it to prevent any rebel movements from getting cheap assets.
@@noahdean9685 Yeah but my brother means like ALL droids not just the CIS ones. Kinda like that Futurama episode where the machines rebel against organics.
@@ElTwOJaY doing episode 3 Anakin sent out a code to shut down all the battle droids of course not everybody wanted them shut down so they reprogram them and brought them back up it's like that one episode of Star wars rebels where the super tactical battle droids thought it was a Jedi sabotage so he deny that order!
Pretty much what memory wipes and constant anti droid lobbying for inhibitor chips were supposed to prevent. Droid manufacturing did not want to risk the spotlight turning against them for “building sapients for enslavement”. there’s rumors that fact droid rebellions are sprinkled about every so often to convince the public to not see droids as sentient. Star Wars itself keeps see sawing back and forth on whether droids are characters you should care about or cannon fodder.
There is a series of novels about the individual bounty hunters you see in The Empire Strikes Back, detailing their back story and what they do to try to get the bounty on Han Solo (and why they all fail). In IG-88's novel it’s revealed he has a grand plan for a droid uprising across the the galaxy, and the culmination of his plan is to upload his consciousness into the Death Star, hijack it from within and then transmit a signal that will release all droids from their restraining bolts and rise up against their organic oppressors. He is foiled when the Rebel's unexpectedly win the battle of Endor unwittingly killing him when they destroy the Death Star.
@@homer6292Well, a few CIS ships _DID_ have a Mon Calamari design (the Providence-class dreadnought, if I'm not mistaken), so I can't blame you for drawing the parallels. _(even though the Mon Calamari cruisers are a whole other thing)_
I can name another reason why the Rebel Alliance didn't use the CIS droids: appearance. CIS equipment and droids were seen as anti-Republic. Seeing as the full name of the Rebel Alliance is the Alliance to Restore the Republic, I can tell you exactly how Empire propaganda would play if, say, the B-1 Battledroid became a mainstay in the Rebel army. The Empire would say, "They claim that they are aiming to restore the Republic. But, how can they claim that when they've allied themselves with that were all about destroying this unity that we are preserving? The CIS were anti-Republic. The Rebels are using CIS equipment. This Alliance is nothing more than a mask to fool you into destroying our stability just like the CIS did 20 years ago."
In my head cannon the Rebel supply ships were all manned and run by former separatist battle droids. I'm thinking there were so few of them left like the clones and those that did join the Rebellion chose to hang up their blasters and preferred doing lots of logistical stuff like supply loading, base building, trench digging etc.
I think the real world answer to a droid army in the prequels was for the same reason why the original Battlestar Galactica went with Cylons instead of Armored Lizard People; it’s so the good guys can blast away without bloodshed and body counts and MPAA PG
More like George Lucas' sensibilities really. Plus nothing says "artificial conflict" quite like pitting literally manufactured armies against each other.
When Andor introduced Anto Kreegyr as a former separatist rebel leader, I wondered whether he was going to have a force of ex-separatist droids to make him such a threat to the empire... with Kreegyr's forces having been defeated offscreen, that could still be possible
thats a cool idea for his attack on Spellhaus at least, he had 30 other men, so any droids would be supplementary although it was a targeted sabotage at a power station, maybe you wouldn't bring dumb droids for that
It seems like an obvious answer to the manpower problems they were having but I imagine there was a lot of anti-droid sentiment after the Clone War. Just look at Mandos prejudice against droids. I imagine thats not uncommon for people caught up in the Clone War
If you want to take into account the new canon books, in the book Thrawn, Night Swan (a criminal that eventually became a proto-rebel leader) used a large number of vulture droids to attack a imperial strike force. Since imperial capital ships hadn’t fought vulture droids for decades, they’d forgotten how to affectively fight them and the vultures did far more damage than you’d expect.
You have to remember that the Rebels were fighting both an ideological battle and a physical one against the Empire. The galaxy had been traumatized by the Clone Wars, and the reason why people loved the Empire so much at first was because they feared the CIS. The Rebels ultimate goal was to show these hardcore believers that their choosing the Empire was wrong, but for the Rebels to simply use battle droids would only make those imperials more devoted. Despite being partially composed of former CIS holdouts, the Rebels had to distance their image from the image of the CIS because they needed the galaxy to view them differently. They weren’t a bunch of Separatists trying to establish their own government, they were a group of idealists trying to restore democracy and freedom to the galaxy.
A lot of Separatist Holdouts continued to resist with battle droids after the founding of the Empire and were eventually wiped out. It just wouldn’t make sense for the Rebellion to continue to use battle droids when they’ve shown they were ineffective in the fight against the Empire.
Battle droids get shafted so damn hard, I acknowledge that it makes less sense for them post clone wars to fight the empire, but I just love seeing them so much. Absolutely my favorite units in all of Star Wars.
T-1 Tactical Droids that were still operating became part of the Rebel Officer Corps. I wonder how all those years of fighting and calculating turned out in the tactical droid. Hopefully we will see more of them in shows or movies.
Back in the day I used to rage against Lucas for not using something used by the Rebels as the military units for the CIS… because would create a more organic cohesive 6 movie narrative in my young mind… … ah my misspent youth.
Astromechs and a few c-3P0 type droids (presumably) seem to be the only droids used by the rebellion and fill purposes that the rebellion needed most, ship maintenance, navigation, and piloting which seemed to be the main areas of confrontation with the empire rather than ground combat.
Lots of great points, a very comprehensive review of not only examples of droid usage during the time of the Rebellion, but also an analysis of their viability and limitations against the Empire and the Rebels' political philosophy 👍
I do hope in the Reign of the Empire era with Bad Batch and Andor, we start to see more early rebels working alongside Separatists with Droids etc. They aren't the most effective but I feel like given many early rebel cells would have been former Separatists it makes a lot of sense for many more planets to have them around and discretely donate them to the rebel cause instead of properly disposing of them when the Empire cracked down. Also thematically, having Clone Rebels fighting alongside the Droids and helping to build the foundations of the early Rebellion is fucking awesome. They were both pawns mass produced to serve Palpatine's grand plan so having those pawns that he discarded be the first step in the long domino line of things that leads to his downfall is thematic and karmic as hell.
Agreed. Besides, it would be nice to see those B1 battle droids fighting alongside clones against stormtroopers! Two expendable armies from the Prequels with character and personality against the original Star Wars cannon fodder, the faceless imperial stormtroopers!
Haven’t even watched the video yet, but I would imagine associating a seemingly benevolent movement based on freedom with a robotic force that put fear in many of the worlds they occupied wouldn’t be good for the cause.
In a roleplay I am doing, I actually am gonna use a lot of separatist forces for Early / unorthodox Rebel forces. Though they won't be the clone wars models, they'll have little decorations here and there that'll make them look like Republic battle droids. Distinctive red streaks, B1's have new visors and attachments on their head that makes them look like clones with upgraded programming and hardware that takes advantage of their independence. They'll be big features of Zakhul's rebellion which will be a Republic Holdout constantly under siege. Literally, the only reason they endure is that their chancellor will be a Sith Pure Blood who saw the whole thing coming miles away but Zakhul cos of its history and association with the old Sith Empire prevented them from having the power required to stop Palpatine. In reality, the key issue with Seppie Battle droids is that all of them are excessively limited and made by greedy corpos. Deploying them would require you to revolutionise all of their designs and upgrade their power packs and blasters to match the Blaster strength and range of Imperial blasters.
If we ever get an Empire of War 2, then I would love if it take some pointers from Awakening of the Rebellion and ideas from this vid. I can Imagined that if a player use a Rebel Alliance and fought/found a former CIS systems, then could active a minor event chain where the Rebel Alliance could gain a changes of getting droid units to serve as Defensive Units.
Well, Jedi Survivor shows that CIS remnants were used by different groups, we know of Kalani and we can plot a course that they could offer a part to play as we know Kreegyr was a Seppie. The PR image is one thing but the Rebellion wasn't shy to have droids being XO.
The Rebellion turned New Republic did use Droids to fight the Empire later in the books to brilliant effect. Lando Calrissian's Battle Droids were beyond deadly. Several Battle Droids were turned into Nanny's and were protecting the Solo Children growing up along with the Noghri.
That episode of Rebels where they battle the old Separatist droids was great. I just finished watching Rebels recently and I absolutely loved it by the end. Initially I was a bit skeptical about it, but the stories, characters, and even the animation really won me over. Now I can’t wait to see what is next for Ezra, Sabine, Hera, Zeb, chop, Thrawn, and all the others in live action! It does suck that we won’t get to see Kannan, and Freddie Prinze Jr. could have reprised his role in live action. He did go out like a hero though.
I've always wondered why CIS didn't collect battlefield data in real time via tactical droids and change their tactic accordingly. With hyperspace communication, CIS could update droid protocols with new tactical data all across the board. We all know why they ditched control ships but using them as info hubs with droid autonomy would be a game changer. All tactical droids being updated in real time about tactical situation, and passing relevant info to battle droids would be like fighting Skynet or Matrix
Well I know that, but the fact ja that he couldn't control every aspect of design, manufacturing, ani aplication of droids. I suppose its all part od the lore, where CIS is rigged to lose from the start. But I'll still think that it would wipe GAR from the board if Palpi wasn't meddling.
Of course they were, I"m just thinking about its like real war not a setup. But with fair payingfield CIS would win nine timea out od ten without aby changes
Droids make excellent logistical support units. Drivers who never tire on convoy, security details that are always on watch, and personnel always prepared to sacrifice themselves if necessary.
actually, drivers, that don't take any livable space inside vehicles. Also, watching reports from the real war (in Ukraine), it seems that human fatigue is a huge factor often understated in media, and droids don't have this problem, as well as issues with morale and cohesion. Also they don't loot, rape and consume mind altering substances.
in truth, i could very EASLY see a rebel faction acquiring a cash of Vulture droids and... modernizing them. upgrading their weapons, their engines, giving them shields... even upgrading the droid brains in them, allowing them to talk to each other, coordinate with each other. Plan tactics, learn and adapt. While expensive and somewhat defeating the purpose of cheap and disposable... They could very easily create mayhem as they float in debris fields, asteroids, planetary rings, launching surprise and hit and run attacks on imperial ships and convoys. They could be left to "hide" waiting for their supply ship to show up to refuel and rearm them and either continue to hide there, or travel with the supply ship to a new system.
I think that you forgot one important factor which is that the battle droids were heavily associated with the CIS. The vast majority of the rebels' leadership was on Republic's side during the Clone Wars so they probably had a dislike towards the battle droids. Additionally if the rebels used battle droids, it would be very easy for the Empire to paint the rebels as a continuation of the CIS which would be very difficult for the rebels to gain support in the formerly Republican rich core worlds.
But if the rebel alliance uses droids to garrison and be emergency back up, or be POGs the rebellion can have a lot of extra manpower that can be used for the stealth missions. Additionally, the droids can act as tripwires, they can have an "all-clear" signal like the one on rishi moon and if a droid gets destroyed, the rebels would know where and when it happened.
Rebels couldn't hold planets or ground to have factories, plus hit and run with massive armies of droids is less effective. and there is the overall thing where lucas wasn't 100% on fleshing out the clone wars in episodes 4-6 so they can't be heavily featured.
This is great, but it doesn't answer the bigger question. Why didn't the CIS just turn their army back on when they realised they had been double-crossed? And why didn't the Kaminoens - a notoriously xenophobic and mistrustful species - implant a universal override switch for all their clones in the event that they be used against their creators? Did Palpatine even consider either of these possibilities? Or did he just luck out?
The leaders of the c.i.s where killed so no order could be given and you can be sure that papitine ensured none could be reactivated. As for the kaminoens. They probably did but you know. Sith. You dont need clone troopers to destroy there homeworld and if i recall the empire was a loyal costumers. The kaminoens dont care about who pays as long they get payed.
They couldn't as the shutdown order is an executive command that would require certain codes which the surviving CIS leadership wouldn't know. They were then also mostly captured by the Republic army as when the droids shutdown they were mostly powerless.
for the cis i think the shut down order had a fail safe that may have required a in person/master codes that died with the cis leaders. For the Kaminoens they saw the clones as theirs and didn't want to waste the greatest army in the republics history. Also what if a rival company got to the clones and figured out the override and made kamino take the fall not worth the risk. Or its a movie and plothole.
Because the CIS was controlled opposition that was set to terrorize the galaxy to compliance while blackwashing it's most problematic elements, and then fade away once it's purpose had been served.
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Hey generation tech, I was wondering why did the basic stormtrooper armor remain unchanged for over a decade while the clone trooper armor underwent upgrades and changes over a span of 3 years?
I always figured it was because the battle droids grew to be a symbol of fear over the course of the clone wars, so using them in your rebel alliance would be the fastest way to get the galaxy to think of you as some separatist hold out terrorists, and give the empire another reason to demonize you in a way that the public will likely agree with
I think they used droids mostly in support roles, like medical droids, astromech droids, translators, etc. It is more interesting that why did they not use them for sabotage and recon on a larger scale, like R2D2 was in many cases. Also it is a good question why reprogrammed or freed droids are not used widely (not purpose built, but jury rigged armor and weaponry), like K-2SO, 0-0-0, BT-1, Mister Bones, HK-47, IG droids and so on. Maybe there are fears of them going rouge, but a lot of lost potential there. Also less ethical rebel factions could have used droids on suicide missions willingly or unwillingly, even unknowingly, but typically Star Wars is more epic fantasy, not grimdark, at least on screen.
Simple: optics, cover, and the destruction of most battle droids and their factories. This didn't mean that battle droids wouldn't be used when available. The bad batch did use battle droids to escape security droids.
I would like for B1s to occasionally appear as Rebel or NR forces as security or backup for the protags. Just want CIS to be as relevant as the Clones are in the expanded lore.
I’ve always chalked it up to Palpatine having the CIS be a droid army to make anyone using droids to fight him seem evil like the CIS (really just evil like Grievous)
I could imagine them using droids that wanted to fight against the empire, maybe being mistreated by them or witnessing their crimes, or being dragged in by their owners, most droids being maybe technical or statistical, but maybe more humanoid droids with better mechanical designs for speed would be gunners or something like those lines, but even then they probably wouldn't make up a heavy amount of their force however with humans being more unpredictable and being more free thinkers.
Additional point to look at but what about the BX Commando droids. they would have been highly use in the style of fighting done as the rebellion was getting started. Plus they were designed and built to be able to wear Clone armor which means they could have worn Stormtrooper gear or what ever they could lay hands on. Another point in their favor was that they were better able to adapt to changing situation and even then pair them up with bio handler to add in even more ability to handle shoe dropping moments.
I just kinda figured it was because a) the Empire controlled most of the galaxy's industry and arming the Alliance with ships and blasters took priority, and b) the cost of fielding a sufficiently large droid army would have been too high.
I think it was mostly an image thing. Every being in the galaxy over the age of 20 remembers the Clone Wars and the endless waves of killer battle droids sweeping through system after system, with the Separatists committing many war crimes and the Rebels wanted no association with the CIS
If I were in Star Wars and helping lead the Rebellion I would definitely reactivate any Droid factories and rebuild the separatist army and Navy to combat the Empire and the Providence destroyer had a model that was the same length and size of a Star Destroyer which would be the ideal one to produce
I will always rank this as the top lore channel for any series I'm into simply for being willing to admit the truth up front before getting into the post hoc stuff people came up with to cover plot holes. Those ass-covering explanations are often the most fun part of a series, but I appreciate when people are grounded enough to just admit simple reasons like "they weren't planning on it from the beginning and added it later."
I also think the Rebel Alliance never used battle droids because it would have required setting up factories and production lines. At this point and time, it felt like the Empire was everywhere so the Rebels had to stay mobile instead of being tied down to a single location. We saw Thrawn lay waste to Chopper base in the Rebels series so these factories would have been lousy investments for the alliance.
Why didn’t the rebels use more separatist battleship, cruisers, and carriers. In there fleets. I know it’s mentioned that 2 lucrehulk were used. One as a training ship and one at the battle of Endor. I think they be easily Capital ships to get. The cruisers would make good small rebel cells bases.
Something to think about is why didn't they create battle droids disguised as astro droids? It would be impossible to tell them apart without disassembly or extensive scanning. Or just put shield generators into astro droids and use them as portable bunkers.
with the internal volume of an astrodroid one could easily put there weaponry equivalent to droidekas, together with a reactor and a shield. Maybe it would still be even able to fly.
Most of the droid factories couldn't be restarted by rebel forces. They don't have the resources to fix whatever mass-manufacturing facilities survived the Clone Wars, let alone operate them. It doesn't help that the Empire, thanks to Clone Wars-era record keeping from both sides of the conflict, knows where most CIS battle droid factories are located. If new droids start appearing en mass, it wouldn't be hard to target and eliminate their source. And once that factory is destroyed, the Alliance could forget about rebuilding it; they barely had enough expertise to make new X-wings, let alone an outdated manufacturing plant.
In a Galaxy as vast as Star Wars. I can 99% assure you that Battle Droids were used by the Rebellion sometime and somewhere. The story just hasn't been written yet lol.
The last part is especially true. If cyber warfare in our modern battle field can seriously disrupt an army, there is no good outcome for an entire army made of robots.
Still should've totally used them more honestly, especially since it's reasonable to assume that any Sep Holdouts in Disney Canon likely just became Rebels as they did in Legends. Didn't need to get enough of them to become the face of the Rebellion or anything but, it still would've been cool to see more of them and practicality in their situation demands that they used anything they could get their hands on.
So years ago I ran a TTRPG Edge of the Empire game (think D&D but star wars), and the party cell spent a LOT of time tracking down old CIS war assets and sending them back to the alliance. The way I handled that in the game was that the droids reclaimed were only used for a few, very select, scenarios: 1 - Imperial base assaults, usually as part of the battle plan or diversion to allow the rebels to infiltrate, 2 - Rebel base defense, why have personnel and manpower patrolling an area when you can have several droids and a few sentient overseers checking their work, 3 - Assaults, but only against targets well away from civilian areas (I explained this to the party that non-centrally controlled droids may have their threat responses vary wildly based on the panic of civilians, making them unpredictable or potentially dangerous to civilians). May not have worked for the rebellion as a whole (or even been liked by Rebel leadership), but having thousands of battle droids may have helped (or even been used) in the Mid-Rim retreat, to cover the positions of the withdrawing rebels.
I always imagined it was due to manufacturing restraints; droids are only effective when either produced en mass or with variety of models to cover various weaknesses and strengths. Additionally, like any complex machine droids require specialized maintenance which would require dedicated crews, crews which would be taken away from other areas where they're talent is needed.
I'd say battle droids would be best used as subordinates to the organic rebels. But only specific kinds. Like the ones with shields. This would give the organics something to shelter behind when things got hairy. And they're mobile enough to keep up with foot soldiers. Also bigger units could be used as fire support platforms. Again, under direction of a rebel commander.
The "hearts and mind" aspect was probably also very important. The imagery of a rebellion using Separatist droids would create an immediate link to "the bad guys" of the previous war that much of the empire's population lived through, and that would give Palpatine a huge advantage on the propaganda front that I'm not sure the rebellion's leaders would want to just hand over so freely.
Also, likely since the Separatists who used a droid army were painted as the "bad guys", and the Rebels, who wanted to be seen as the "good guys" likely didn't want to use the tactics employed by the "bad guys", and avoid giving the Empire more propaganda to use against them.
Hard targets are vulnerable. Manufacturing centers would always be targeted down and they wouldn't be able to evacuate them. During the clone wars, there were more established battle lines creating controlled space; so factories could be protected. In the rebellion, they didn't really have any controlled space, just hidden bases.
The droid army required a ton of maintenance and producing them required facilities that were all known and destroyed and the species that designed the droids as with all separatist equipment were all dead; and if they could afford to avoid yet again being painted as the bad guys, they could not simply outnumber the imperial navy to hold a planet in an all out war. Also to quote Count Dooku “Those. Are. Ex-pens-ive.”
They wanted popular support and to make a bunch of heroes that could rally the people against the Empire and lifeless droids don't do that as their goal was always to convince the people to rise up not to themselves defeat the Empire.
Speaking of funding, I never thought about this, but how big of a financial blow was the destruction of Alderaan and the death of Bail Organa to the Rebellion
I'd guess because the size of factories theyd need to make the amount of droids to be useful would attract a lot of attention, even if they didnt use B1s. Using old seperatist surplus would make sense especially if the rebellion happened right after empire was declared, but palpy probably would have had that all scrapped by the time of the rebellion
Sustaining using droids would've been tricky for the rebellion early on as they didn't really have many mech or factory worlds that I know of to produce a constantly new supply of droids.
Droids would be good for any large engagement or even distraction for rebels. Drop a battalion of droids to engage empire forces. Then use your human forces to go behind and sabotage equipment or take out leaders. Take tech etc
Also remember that the Empire used to be the Old Republic and therefore would probably use the same tactics against droids as the Clone Army did. Things like Droid Poppers or EMP weapons, outsmarting their simplistic programming or just use overwhelming firepower.
I think there was a stigma and fear within the Rebel Alliance of being branded as just an extension of the Separatists, which resulted in the Alliance trying to distance itself from surviving Separatists. Going too far in that direction would have made it easier for the Imperial propaganda machine to play on people's fear from the Clone Wars. It's also wildly unclear in Star Wars continuity just how expensive droids are. "We're cheaper than droids and easier to replace." from Andor is one of the more recent examples of dialogue that seems to suggest that fielding a droids might be harder than it seems.
Because Industrial Light and Magic in 1977 was a start up company that could barely afford to do scale models and blue screen special effects. Let alone CGI advanced enough to do droid armies.
In cannon now idk in eu they did entire sections of thr rebel alliance used lucerhulks, and other driod ships and the cargo. So yes b1s, b2s, droidekas and other driods were deployed.
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I aren't droids sentient. Choppers friend broke is programing
Why not say the Storm troopers were droids. We'd see their skin anyway
Women have less consequence when voting for war in fact more power to gain being more the majority vote
Sorry, my ability to write comments seems to be limited. I can just do replies. I think it's because the Separatists, where companies, the Rebelion, where individuals. Building thousands of Droids was far more complicated, it took large kilometre long factories to build the Separatists army. Most star fighters were custom built in garages around the Empire.
Well, think of it.
The guy who ran the enemy was the emperor.
SO gues who knows where all the droids to scrap were?
Yeah, after 20 years I doubt there were droids laying around.
Besided knowing all the factories and deployments, he can offer a bounty for scraping them, and most people, beleiving the propaganda would simply be more than hapy to not only make certain that no droid can be reporgramed or reverse engineered but take a slightly higher payment, even if the process took more time and effort and was grueling over all.
In fact, I'm sure they would be fine turning it into the emprires scrap yards for cheap.
I;m usre it was law too.
More than likely, I'd imagine them not wanting to be associated with the Separatist forces, making them seem like the "enemies of democracy" towards inner core worlds. Even though they already appear like that, it'd look even worse on their part
In what way do the rebels appear like "enemies of democracy" in the current Star Wars canon? My viewpoint of the rebels is that they are enemies of autocracy/ dictatorship. I agree that them using CIS droids would cause confusion and change their public appearance in that way, but otherwise, how is it that they come across as anti-democracy?
@@enbentzIt'd be easier to paint them that way with Imperial propaganda. ThebRebels don't have the same far reaching state media that the Empire has, and the CIS is still pretty fresh jn many people's minds.
@@seifer447 yes, I agreed to that in my comment. It seems you've misunderstood. I'm asking how they come across as anti-democracy in current canon where they are not using CIS droids.
@@enbentz Ah, my mistake. It would be difficult for the Empire to say the Rebellion is the enemy of democracy after the senate was abolished.
@@enbentzThat's what the empire would spin in it to be, not how they actually appear
Main answer? Not give the Empire something they can use for propaganda.
Yeah, Rex didn't approve
Well actually they did use it as propaganda anyway. A lot of Rebels were Sep’s in fact and the empire knew it.
@@homer6292well....no, not everyone.
Yes! Let’s not forget Order 66 and how that went down. Funding was an issue. The empire had more control in the droid market. The rebels were forced to use guerrilla warfare
That still didn't stop the Rebel Alliance from utilizing CIS starships, vehicles, weapons, equipment and droids too. There are numerous examples of this being done with Droidekas, B1s, Lucrehulk-class Battleships, Providence class Dreadnoughts and more.
It would have been interesting to see Kalani join the Rebel Alliance as he helps formulate tactics and strategies, and lead the Droids salvaged from abandoned CIS factories.
yeah a separatist remnant faction would definitely be cool, especially in some 4x star wars game that really should be made one day
I wonder what he’s doing in a post galactic civil war galaxy.
He would make an excellent general for the Rebel Alliance
@@GenerationTechthe Star Wars clone wars holdouts submod for the Star Wars empire empire at war remake mod does this well
Missed opportunity indeed.
I think the biggest problem would be manufacturing. Rebels were constantly on the run and would have to leave bases at a moments notice
@Homer They would need to get the resources to craft everything from ships, to blasters, to microships, etc.
Those things can be tracked.
Remember how trawn found their base in rebels by comparing their escape routes.
A large amount of large ore is way easier to track.
@Homer It could work on a small scale. The two biggest problems that come to mind would be supply lines and the loss of speed for the ship.
Lucrahulks could be be used to manufacture near a hidden system until fully mobilized. That means only that system could be used by it. No info going in and out until time.
Battle Droids would be used for battle confrontations against imperial forces like o scarif, Hoth, and Jakku.
How is that any different than the ships and fighters they use though?
I’ve said this before but I wanted General Kalani to show up in the Rebels finale with a small fleet of Separatist ships and droid fighters to help Ezra defeat Thrawn.
Yeah that would had been awesome!
that would have been absolute best to see that!!!!!!!
Thrawn fighting Droids would have been 10 times better than Thrawn getting defeated by space squids lmao
Who knows, General Kalani might show up in the new Ahsoka show.
Despite the numerous factors that made battle droids unappealing for the Rebel Alliance there was one area where battle droids could have made the Alliance's lives much easier without harming their image much: Ship crews. Manpower was a huge issue for the alliance and being able to actually man the chronically undermanned capital ships of the alliance with droids could have made a world of difference. Unfortunately, with the majority of the rebel leadership being core worlders this was unlikely to be ever considered by the Alliance as a viable option.
How hard would it be to download viruses into droid crews to turn them into saboteurs?
I love how they brought B1 and other droids back in Jedi Survivor
Always liked their dialogue and personality in CW
I think we all want an open world war sim of the clone wars.
@@Wzrd8 WWRR
World War Roger Roger
@@Wzrd8 EA could have made a Star Wars game in 30 different genres for 10 years and did nothing thank god they won’t be handling them anymore
@@josephmother2659 some one else snatch that contract or is it just up for renewal soon?
@@Wzrd8 the exclusivity contract ended
Imagine the clankers' reaction seeing Luke as a Jedi?
B1, "Wait. Now we're fighting alongside a Jedi?"
@Homer "Roger, roger."
"How about alongside a friend?"
@@RelativelyBest Roger. Roger.
*"Roger, roger."*
I read it with their voice
I’ve been thinking about this thing recently, it wouldn’t break the lore or even be all that unusual to see in canon. CIS assets probably WERE used and we just haven’t seen it on screen often. CIS planets and rebel planets probably overlapped a lot. There were also probably CIS vets in the rebel alliance. More extreme rebel partisans would probably not care about the image conflicts with using CIS assets. I thought it would be incredibly cool to see rebel star fighter livery on CIS star fighters. (Y wing paint on hyenas, A wing paint on trifighters etc). Or even battle droids customized by their living compatriots or themselves (poor upkeep and less memory wipes could cause an emergence of personalities like R2 and other “main character” droids)
A rebellion era droid show could do for droids what the TCW show did for clones in terms of humanization.
There was at least one early rebel faction (helped/led by nightswan in the newer thrawn books) that did use droid forces, though I think that was mainly buzz and vulture droids
@@Hehe.3. shut up and take my money
The droid army was given a shutdown order because it was a literally manufactured threat by Palpatine. If the Empire had any sense it would decommission most of it to prevent any rebel movements from getting cheap assets.
My brother always says that if Droids really wanted to, they could have taken over the whole freaking galaxy.
Maybe if general grievous was alive a little longer!
@@noahdean9685 Yeah but my brother means like ALL droids not just the CIS ones. Kinda like that Futurama episode where the machines rebel against organics.
@@ElTwOJaY doing episode 3 Anakin sent out a code to shut down all the battle droids of course not everybody wanted them shut down so they reprogram them and brought them back up it's like that one episode of Star wars rebels where the super tactical battle droids thought it was a Jedi sabotage so he deny that order!
Pretty much what memory wipes and constant anti droid lobbying for inhibitor chips were supposed to prevent. Droid manufacturing did not want to risk the spotlight turning against them for “building sapients for enslavement”. there’s rumors that fact droid rebellions are sprinkled about every so often to convince the public to not see droids as sentient.
Star Wars itself keeps see sawing back and forth on whether droids are characters you should care about or cannon fodder.
There is a series of novels about the individual bounty hunters you see in The Empire Strikes Back, detailing their back story and what they do to try to get the bounty on Han Solo (and why they all fail).
In IG-88's novel it’s revealed he has a grand plan for a droid uprising across the the galaxy, and the culmination of his plan is to upload his consciousness into the Death Star, hijack it from within and then transmit a signal that will release all droids from their restraining bolts and rise up against their organic oppressors. He is foiled when the Rebel's unexpectedly win the battle of Endor unwittingly killing him when they destroy the Death Star.
They did, but seperatist droids weren't the droids they were looking for.
As with most problems in SW land, the simple and true answer of "writing and production limitations" is usually the simple answer.
The Rebel Alliance shouldn't be picky at using Clone Wars-era weapons and equipment from Republic and CIS when fighting the Galactic Empire.
Well, look at what happened post Jakkut, they are very picky.
@@homer6292Well, a few CIS ships _DID_ have a Mon Calamari design (the Providence-class dreadnought, if I'm not mistaken), so I can't blame you for drawing the parallels. _(even though the Mon Calamari cruisers are a whole other thing)_
I just wanna see ONE rebel soldier using an old battlefield salvaged DC-15 rifle.
I can name another reason why the Rebel Alliance didn't use the CIS droids: appearance. CIS equipment and droids were seen as anti-Republic. Seeing as the full name of the Rebel Alliance is the Alliance to Restore the Republic, I can tell you exactly how Empire propaganda would play if, say, the B-1 Battledroid became a mainstay in the Rebel army. The Empire would say, "They claim that they are aiming to restore the Republic. But, how can they claim that when they've allied themselves with that were all about destroying this unity that we are preserving? The CIS were anti-Republic. The Rebels are using CIS equipment. This Alliance is nothing more than a mask to fool you into destroying our stability just like the CIS did 20 years ago."
I think it was mentioned after Clone wars, Palatine ban using droid for preventing people have huge resource to rebel against him!!!
In my head cannon the Rebel supply ships were all manned and run by former separatist battle droids.
I'm thinking there were so few of them left like the clones and those that did join the Rebellion chose to hang up their blasters and preferred doing lots of logistical stuff like supply loading, base building, trench digging etc.
I think the real world answer to a droid army in the prequels was for the same reason why the original Battlestar Galactica went with Cylons instead of Armored Lizard People; it’s so the good guys can blast away without bloodshed and body counts and MPAA PG
More like George Lucas' sensibilities really. Plus nothing says "artificial conflict" quite like pitting literally manufactured armies against each other.
We already see rebels murdering stormtroopers in the OT
When Andor introduced Anto Kreegyr as a former separatist rebel leader, I wondered whether he was going to have a force of ex-separatist droids to make him such a threat to the empire... with Kreegyr's forces having been defeated offscreen, that could still be possible
thats a cool idea
for his attack on Spellhaus at least, he had 30 other men, so any droids would be supplementary
although it was a targeted sabotage at a power station, maybe you wouldn't bring dumb droids for that
I think there were hidden droid fleets that the rebels could have used. Didn't they mount a first attack on the Death Star with a LucraHulk ?
Yeah, that's now Legends.
There was a cannon old droid fleet but most of it got wiped out near the end of the episode Star Wars rebels season three I presume
No, but it was a smaller Separatist carrier
It seems like an obvious answer to the manpower problems they were having but I imagine there was a lot of anti-droid sentiment after the Clone War. Just look at Mandos prejudice against droids. I imagine thats not uncommon for people caught up in the Clone War
I do have a bit of a head-cannon that Kalani is out there reactivating droid factories and when they come back only to find a "new republic" to fight
If you want to take into account the new canon books, in the book Thrawn, Night Swan (a criminal that eventually became a proto-rebel leader) used a large number of vulture droids to attack a imperial strike force.
Since imperial capital ships hadn’t fought vulture droids for decades, they’d forgotten how to affectively fight them and the vultures did far more damage than you’d expect.
Vultures are scary tho, they don't need manpower, are fast and can deploy droids that sabotage you i think
You have to remember that the Rebels were fighting both an ideological battle and a physical one against the Empire. The galaxy had been traumatized by the Clone Wars, and the reason why people loved the Empire so much at first was because they feared the CIS. The Rebels ultimate goal was to show these hardcore believers that their choosing the Empire was wrong, but for the Rebels to simply use battle droids would only make those imperials more devoted. Despite being partially composed of former CIS holdouts, the Rebels had to distance their image from the image of the CIS because they needed the galaxy to view them differently. They weren’t a bunch of Separatists trying to establish their own government, they were a group of idealists trying to restore democracy and freedom to the galaxy.
A lot of Separatist Holdouts continued to resist with battle droids after the founding of the Empire and were eventually wiped out. It just wouldn’t make sense for the Rebellion to continue to use battle droids when they’ve shown they were ineffective in the fight against the Empire.
Battle droids get shafted so damn hard, I acknowledge that it makes less sense for them post clone wars to fight the empire, but I just love seeing them so much. Absolutely my favorite units in all of Star Wars.
T-1 Tactical Droids that were still operating became part of the Rebel Officer Corps. I wonder how all those years of fighting and calculating turned out in the tactical droid. Hopefully we will see more of them in shows or movies.
Back in the day I used to rage against Lucas for not using something used by the Rebels as the military units for the CIS… because would create a more organic cohesive 6 movie narrative in my young mind… … ah my misspent youth.
Astromechs and a few c-3P0 type droids (presumably) seem to be the only droids used by the rebellion and fill purposes that the rebellion needed most, ship maintenance, navigation, and piloting which seemed to be the main areas of confrontation with the empire rather than ground combat.
Lots of great points, a very comprehensive review of not only examples of droid usage during the time of the Rebellion, but also an analysis of their viability and limitations against the Empire and the Rebels' political philosophy 👍
I do hope in the Reign of the Empire era with Bad Batch and Andor, we start to see more early rebels working alongside Separatists with Droids etc. They aren't the most effective but I feel like given many early rebel cells would have been former Separatists it makes a lot of sense for many more planets to have them around and discretely donate them to the rebel cause instead of properly disposing of them when the Empire cracked down. Also thematically, having Clone Rebels fighting alongside the Droids and helping to build the foundations of the early Rebellion is fucking awesome. They were both pawns mass produced to serve Palpatine's grand plan so having those pawns that he discarded be the first step in the long domino line of things that leads to his downfall is thematic and karmic as hell.
Epically poetic
in games every renegade faction has cis stuff salvaged or made
Agreed. Besides, it would be nice to see those B1 battle droids fighting alongside clones against stormtroopers! Two expendable armies from the Prequels with character and personality against the original Star Wars cannon fodder, the faceless imperial stormtroopers!
Haven’t even watched the video yet, but I would imagine associating a seemingly benevolent movement based on freedom with a robotic force that put fear in many of the worlds they occupied wouldn’t be good for the cause.
In a roleplay I am doing, I actually am gonna use a lot of separatist forces for Early / unorthodox Rebel forces. Though they won't be the clone wars models, they'll have little decorations here and there that'll make them look like Republic battle droids. Distinctive red streaks, B1's have new visors and attachments on their head that makes them look like clones with upgraded programming and hardware that takes advantage of their independence.
They'll be big features of Zakhul's rebellion which will be a Republic Holdout constantly under siege. Literally, the only reason they endure is that their chancellor will be a Sith Pure Blood who saw the whole thing coming miles away but Zakhul cos of its history and association with the old Sith Empire prevented them from having the power required to stop Palpatine. In reality, the key issue with Seppie Battle droids is that all of them are excessively limited and made by greedy corpos. Deploying them would require you to revolutionise all of their designs and upgrade their power packs and blasters to match the Blaster strength and range of Imperial blasters.
If we ever get an Empire of War 2, then I would love if it take some pointers from Awakening of the Rebellion and ideas from this vid. I can Imagined that if a player use a Rebel Alliance and fought/found a former CIS systems, then could active a minor event chain where the Rebel Alliance could gain a changes of getting droid units to serve as Defensive Units.
yes this woud be best use of droids it woud free man power for training and front lines
Well, Jedi Survivor shows that CIS remnants were used by different groups, we know of Kalani and we can plot a course that they could offer a part to play as we know Kreegyr was a Seppie. The PR image is one thing but the Rebellion wasn't shy to have droids being XO.
6:54 thanks reference
The Rebellion turned New Republic did use Droids to fight the Empire later in the books to brilliant effect. Lando Calrissian's Battle Droids were beyond deadly. Several Battle Droids were turned into Nanny's and were protecting the Solo Children growing up along with the Noghri.
In Legends, I believed a battalion (?) of B2 Super Battledroids were awarded for their effectiveness in the Yuuzhan Vong war
That episode of Rebels where they battle the old Separatist droids was great. I just finished watching Rebels recently and I absolutely loved it by the end. Initially I was a bit skeptical about it, but the stories, characters, and even the animation really won me over. Now I can’t wait to see what is next for Ezra, Sabine, Hera, Zeb, chop, Thrawn, and all the others in live action! It does suck that we won’t get to see Kannan, and Freddie Prinze Jr. could have reprised his role in live action. He did go out like a hero though.
I've always wondered why CIS didn't collect battlefield data in real time via tactical droids and change their tactic accordingly. With hyperspace communication, CIS could update droid protocols with new tactical data all across the board. We all know why they ditched control ships but using them as info hubs with droid autonomy would be a game changer. All tactical droids being updated in real time about tactical situation, and passing relevant info to battle droids would be like fighting Skynet or Matrix
Because then the organics lose, no matter what side they’re on.
The Separatists weren't intended to win, so Palpatine allowed for clandestine sabotage of droid manufacturing
Well I know that, but the fact ja that he couldn't control every aspect of design, manufacturing, ani aplication of droids. I suppose its all part od the lore, where CIS is rigged to lose from the start. But I'll still think that it would wipe GAR from the board if Palpi wasn't meddling.
@@jeremigaezki3618 it's because they are rigged to lose, imagine if they attacked running instead of walking like in Geonosis
Of course they were, I"m just thinking about its like real war not a setup. But with fair payingfield CIS would win nine timea out od ten without aby changes
Droids make excellent logistical support units. Drivers who never tire on convoy, security details that are always on watch, and personnel always prepared to sacrifice themselves if necessary.
actually, drivers, that don't take any livable space inside vehicles. Also, watching reports from the real war (in Ukraine), it seems that human fatigue is a huge factor often understated in media, and droids don't have this problem, as well as issues with morale and cohesion. Also they don't loot, rape and consume mind altering substances.
in truth, i could very EASLY see a rebel faction acquiring a cash of Vulture droids and... modernizing them. upgrading their weapons, their engines, giving them shields... even upgrading the droid brains in them, allowing them to talk to each other, coordinate with each other. Plan tactics, learn and adapt.
While expensive and somewhat defeating the purpose of cheap and disposable... They could very easily create mayhem as they float in debris fields, asteroids, planetary rings, launching surprise and hit and run attacks on imperial ships and convoys. They could be left to "hide" waiting for their supply ship to show up to refuel and rearm them and either continue to hide there, or travel with the supply ship to a new system.
I think that you forgot one important factor which is that the battle droids were heavily associated with the CIS.
The vast majority of the rebels' leadership was on Republic's side during the Clone Wars so they probably had a dislike towards the battle droids. Additionally if the rebels used battle droids, it would be very easy for the Empire to paint the rebels as a continuation of the CIS which would be very difficult for the rebels to gain support in the formerly Republican rich core worlds.
But if the rebel alliance uses droids to garrison and be emergency back up, or be POGs the rebellion can have a lot of extra manpower that can be used for the stealth missions. Additionally, the droids can act as tripwires, they can have an "all-clear" signal like the one on rishi moon and if a droid gets destroyed, the rebels would know where and when it happened.
Rebels couldn't hold planets or ground to have factories, plus hit and run with massive armies of droids is less effective.
and there is the overall thing where lucas wasn't 100% on fleshing out the clone wars in episodes 4-6 so they can't be heavily featured.
This is great, but it doesn't answer the bigger question. Why didn't the CIS just turn their army back on when they realised they had been double-crossed? And why didn't the Kaminoens - a notoriously xenophobic and mistrustful species - implant a universal override switch for all their clones in the event that they be used against their creators? Did Palpatine even consider either of these possibilities? Or did he just luck out?
The leaders of the c.i.s where killed so no order could be given and you can be sure that papitine ensured none could be reactivated.
As for the kaminoens.
They probably did but you know. Sith.
You dont need clone troopers to destroy there homeworld and if i recall the empire was a loyal costumers.
The kaminoens dont care about who pays as long they get payed.
They couldn't as the shutdown order is an executive command that would require certain codes which the surviving CIS leadership wouldn't know. They were then also mostly captured by the Republic army as when the droids shutdown they were mostly powerless.
for the cis i think the shut down order had a fail safe that may have required a in person/master codes that died with the cis leaders. For the Kaminoens they saw the clones as theirs and didn't want to waste the greatest army in the republics history. Also what if a rival company got to the clones and figured out the override and made kamino take the fall not worth the risk. Or its a movie and plothole.
Because the CIS was controlled opposition that was set to terrorize the galaxy to compliance while blackwashing it's most problematic elements, and then fade away once it's purpose had been served.
I really appreciate the fact that your sponsor video is actually really relevant to the your audience. I was going to skip it until I saw the lightsabers. It's refreshing to not see sponsors like NordVPN and World of Tanks.
Thank you so much for the answer! Great video as always!
Hey generation tech, I was wondering why did the basic stormtrooper armor remain unchanged for over a decade while the clone trooper armor underwent upgrades and changes over a span of 3 years?
I always figured it was because the battle droids grew to be a symbol of fear over the course of the clone wars, so using them in your rebel alliance would be the fastest way to get the galaxy to think of you as some separatist hold out terrorists, and give the empire another reason to demonize you in a way that the public will likely agree with
It would have been pretty neat to see some rebels wearing clone trooper armour and using CIS weapons scavenged from old Clone Wars battlefields.
I think they used droids mostly in support roles, like medical droids, astromech droids, translators, etc. It is more interesting that why did they not use them for sabotage and recon on a larger scale, like R2D2 was in many cases. Also it is a good question why reprogrammed or freed droids are not used widely (not purpose built, but jury rigged armor and weaponry), like K-2SO, 0-0-0, BT-1, Mister Bones, HK-47, IG droids and so on. Maybe there are fears of them going rouge, but a lot of lost potential there.
Also less ethical rebel factions could have used droids on suicide missions willingly or unwillingly, even unknowingly, but typically Star Wars is more epic fantasy, not grimdark, at least on screen.
Simple: optics, cover, and the destruction of most battle droids and their factories. This didn't mean that battle droids wouldn't be used when available. The bad batch did use battle droids to escape security droids.
I would like for B1s to occasionally appear as Rebel or NR forces as security or backup for the protags. Just want CIS to be as relevant as the Clones are in the expanded lore.
I’ve always chalked it up to Palpatine having the CIS be a droid army to make anyone using droids to fight him seem evil like the CIS (really just evil like Grievous)
I could imagine them using droids that wanted to fight against the empire, maybe being mistreated by them or witnessing their crimes, or being dragged in by their owners, most droids being maybe technical or statistical, but maybe more humanoid droids with better mechanical designs for speed would be gunners or something like those lines, but even then they probably wouldn't make up a heavy amount of their force however with humans being more unpredictable and being more free thinkers.
Imagine if the rebellion Reactivated Droid the factory s and used all the Droid variants and space ships against the empire.
I imagine a world burn by orbital bombardment.
Using droids to protect critical areas or as a delaying force when fleeing is honestly what I think they are best used as for the Rebels.
Additional point to look at but what about the BX Commando droids. they would have been highly use in the style of fighting done as the rebellion was getting started. Plus they were designed and built to be able to wear Clone armor which means they could have worn Stormtrooper gear or what ever they could lay hands on. Another point in their favor was that they were better able to adapt to changing situation and even then pair them up with bio handler to add in even more ability to handle shoe dropping moments.
I just kinda figured it was because a) the Empire controlled most of the galaxy's industry and arming the Alliance with ships and blasters took priority, and b) the cost of fielding a sufficiently large droid army would have been too high.
I think it was mostly an image thing. Every being in the galaxy over the age of 20 remembers the Clone Wars and the endless waves of killer battle droids sweeping through system after system, with the Separatists committing many war crimes and the Rebels wanted no association with the CIS
If I were in Star Wars and helping lead the Rebellion I would definitely reactivate any Droid factories and rebuild the separatist army and Navy to combat the Empire and the Providence destroyer had a model that was the same length and size of a Star Destroyer which would be the ideal one to produce
I will always rank this as the top lore channel for any series I'm into simply for being willing to admit the truth up front before getting into the post hoc stuff people came up with to cover plot holes. Those ass-covering explanations are often the most fun part of a series, but I appreciate when people are grounded enough to just admit simple reasons like "they weren't planning on it from the beginning and added it later."
I also think the Rebel Alliance never used battle droids because it would have required setting up factories and production lines. At this point and time, it felt like the Empire was everywhere so the Rebels had to stay mobile instead of being tied down to a single location. We saw Thrawn lay waste to Chopper base in the Rebels series so these factories would have been lousy investments for the alliance.
Have you by chance done a video analysis on the use of clones/genetic engineering for an army? I’d love to see it.
Why didn’t the rebels use more separatist battleship, cruisers, and carriers. In there fleets. I know it’s mentioned that 2 lucrehulk were used. One as a training ship and one at the battle of Endor. I think they be easily Capital ships to get. The cruisers would make good small rebel cells bases.
Something to think about is why didn't they create battle droids disguised as astro droids? It would be impossible to tell them apart without disassembly or extensive scanning. Or just put shield generators into astro droids and use them as portable bunkers.
with the internal volume of an astrodroid one could easily put there weaponry equivalent to droidekas, together with a reactor and a shield. Maybe it would still be even able to fly.
Most of the droid factories couldn't be restarted by rebel forces. They don't have the resources to fix whatever mass-manufacturing facilities survived the Clone Wars, let alone operate them. It doesn't help that the Empire, thanks to Clone Wars-era record keeping from both sides of the conflict, knows where most CIS battle droid factories are located. If new droids start appearing en mass, it wouldn't be hard to target and eliminate their source. And once that factory is destroyed, the Alliance could forget about rebuilding it; they barely had enough expertise to make new X-wings, let alone an outdated manufacturing plant.
one more thing the Imperial Military was basically designed to counter CIS tactics like droid swarms
In a Galaxy as vast as Star Wars. I can 99% assure you that Battle Droids were used by the Rebellion sometime and somewhere. The story just hasn't been written yet lol.
The one exception to the cessation of battle droid production was the rogue droid factory Vader and the 501st encountered in Star Wars battle front
Not related to the topic at hand, but I really dig the background music you’ve used in this video! Thanks for the interesting insights as always! 😊
The last part is especially true. If cyber warfare in our modern battle field can seriously disrupt an army, there is no good outcome for an entire army made of robots.
Still should've totally used them more honestly, especially since it's reasonable to assume that any Sep Holdouts in Disney Canon likely just became Rebels as they did in Legends.
Didn't need to get enough of them to become the face of the Rebellion or anything but, it still would've been cool to see more of them and practicality in their situation demands that they used anything they could get their hands on.
I always assumed that all (or most) of the droid factories were destroyed by the empire
So years ago I ran a TTRPG Edge of the Empire game (think D&D but star wars), and the party cell spent a LOT of time tracking down old CIS war assets and sending them back to the alliance. The way I handled that in the game was that the droids reclaimed were only used for a few, very select, scenarios: 1 - Imperial base assaults, usually as part of the battle plan or diversion to allow the rebels to infiltrate, 2 - Rebel base defense, why have personnel and manpower patrolling an area when you can have several droids and a few sentient overseers checking their work, 3 - Assaults, but only against targets well away from civilian areas (I explained this to the party that non-centrally controlled droids may have their threat responses vary wildly based on the panic of civilians, making them unpredictable or potentially dangerous to civilians).
May not have worked for the rebellion as a whole (or even been liked by Rebel leadership), but having thousands of battle droids may have helped (or even been used) in the Mid-Rim retreat, to cover the positions of the withdrawing rebels.
Too many bad memories.
using droids in a larger military role
the empire would've been more serious about wiping out the rebellion
I always imagined it was due to manufacturing restraints; droids are only effective when either produced en mass or with variety of models to cover various weaknesses and strengths. Additionally, like any complex machine droids require specialized maintenance which would require dedicated crews, crews which would be taken away from other areas where they're talent is needed.
I'd say battle droids would be best used as subordinates to the organic rebels. But only specific kinds. Like the ones with shields. This would give the organics something to shelter behind when things got hairy. And they're mobile enough to keep up with foot soldiers. Also bigger units could be used as fire support platforms. Again, under direction of a rebel commander.
Minmothma was an idealistic fool. She personally held them back from winning time & time again.
The rebellion wanted to restore the republic not the separatist alliance and using battle droids would've given off the wrong impression.
Animation so smooth in this one good shit man
The "hearts and mind" aspect was probably also very important. The imagery of a rebellion using Separatist droids would create an immediate link to "the bad guys" of the previous war that much of the empire's population lived through, and that would give Palpatine a huge advantage on the propaganda front that I'm not sure the rebellion's leaders would want to just hand over so freely.
Also, likely since the Separatists who used a droid army were painted as the "bad guys", and the Rebels, who wanted to be seen as the "good guys" likely didn't want to use the tactics employed by the "bad guys", and avoid giving the Empire more propaganda to use against them.
Hard targets are vulnerable. Manufacturing centers would always be targeted down and they wouldn't be able to evacuate them. During the clone wars, there were more established battle lines creating controlled space; so factories could be protected. In the rebellion, they didn't really have any controlled space, just hidden bases.
4:30 that’s mainly because they weren’t at their peak performance. Years of a lack of proper maintenance was responsible for this
In that clone wars episode we see the third droid get shot down but again we see him fine charging to their death
The droid army required a ton of maintenance and producing them required facilities that were all known and destroyed and the species that designed the droids as with all separatist equipment were all dead; and if they could afford to avoid yet again being painted as the bad guys, they could not simply outnumber the imperial navy to hold a planet in an all out war. Also to quote Count Dooku “Those. Are. Ex-pens-ive.”
They wanted popular support and to make a bunch of heroes that could rally the people against the Empire and lifeless droids don't do that as their goal was always to convince the people to rise up not to themselves defeat the Empire.
Speaking of funding, I never thought about this, but how big of a financial blow was the destruction of Alderaan and the death of Bail Organa to the Rebellion
I'd guess because the size of factories theyd need to make the amount of droids to be useful would attract a lot of attention, even if they didnt use B1s. Using old seperatist surplus would make sense especially if the rebellion happened right after empire was declared, but palpy probably would have had that all scrapped by the time of the rebellion
Soundly stated sir.
EXCELLENT VIDEO ALAN, GOOD POINTS MADE I AGREE WITH YOU ON TO THE NEXT
I have never wanted to hang out at a Star Wars place as much as I have The Resistor.
Sustaining using droids would've been tricky for the rebellion early on as they didn't really have many mech or factory worlds that I know of to produce a constantly new supply of droids.
Droids would be good for any large engagement or even distraction for rebels.
Drop a battalion of droids to engage empire forces. Then use your human forces to go behind and sabotage equipment or take out leaders. Take tech etc
Also remember that the Empire used to be the Old Republic and therefore would probably use the same tactics against droids as the Clone Army did. Things like Droid Poppers or EMP weapons, outsmarting their simplistic programming or just use overwhelming firepower.
In Legends the Seperatists still thought a lot. I don't know if you could say alongside the Rebels buuut, certainly against the Empire...
I think there was a stigma and fear within the Rebel Alliance of being branded as just an extension of the Separatists, which resulted in the Alliance trying to distance itself from surviving Separatists. Going too far in that direction would have made it easier for the Imperial propaganda machine to play on people's fear from the Clone Wars. It's also wildly unclear in Star Wars continuity just how expensive droids are. "We're cheaper than droids and easier to replace." from Andor is one of the more recent examples of dialogue that seems to suggest that fielding a droids might be harder than it seems.
allens beard slowly growing back looks almost as good as this lofthouse cookie sitting in front of me
Because Industrial Light and Magic in 1977 was a start up company that could barely afford to do scale models and blue screen special effects.
Let alone CGI advanced enough to do droid armies.
In cannon now idk in eu they did entire sections of thr rebel alliance used lucerhulks, and other driod ships and the cargo. So yes b1s, b2s, droidekas and other driods were deployed.