I like to incorporate the meta lore of it being intended to have the name of "Matador" and then headcanon that the designers were worried that the warrior caste might find out this is an attempt to fix the Charger into an actual viable cavalry assault mech. And that would just torpedo the whole project. Even if you ignore the Charger's bad reputation for conventional warfare, the Clans shun melee, which is the only area where the charger shined before they left the Sphere. But give this mech the name of a venerable and beloved design like the Phoenix Hawk, and they will have duels to try it.
It's a silly machine made by silly people, but still very capable of killing you. Also, I love improved jump jets, but really only for medium 'mechs. They weigh too much for lights to use them while still having guns. In heavies and assaults, they only work for the designs that focus on one big weapon and a few smaller ones, like the Victor. Anything else, just use standard jump jets and a few heat sinks. Maybe a partial wing instead.
Yeah the "Phoenix Hawk IIC" never made sense until I heard about Ashley Watkins (the writer who actually devised the specs) actually wrote it up as a completely different concept called the Matador. In all my games since we've just let it be the Matador and devised plenty of proper clan successors to the PH's role to take the IIC title. Honestly I wish the official writers would just do the same and take the opportunity to introduce another popular piece.
I like the lore about the 10 being copied from a pirate by Clan Sea Fox because it works and, well, they sell to anyone. As for the Improved Jump Jets, yeah they are niche and not too impressive. The Partial Wing can give nearly the same mobility boost with less weight overall (5% for Clan, or 7% for Inner Sphere versions, of the Mechs weight rounded up to nearest .5) slightly fewer crit slots (unless in a mech with the speed of an UrbanMech) and more heat control. Granted, they are more impressive on lights and mediums than heavies and assaults, but they work.
You already said it: Its too silly and too expensive for any sane quartermaster or procurement officer to consider. Luckily this is the Inner Sphere ...
2, 4, 5, 9, and 10 are the variants I'd recommend using, especially the 10 to maximize use of the speed. Barring that, the 2 is able to dump a lot of hurt from behind cover and book it, minimizing risks to your very expensive engine.
For that Artemis Comment, I would not advise putting Artemis on anything. It makes it significantly more expensive, heavier, gets countered by ECM which many units have, and also doesn't even work on indirect fire. It's only worth it in the 3050s on a direct fire mech. Sacrificing multiple tons of armor for it seems not great Edit: the Improved Jump Jets are great, I have no clue what you're talking about. They run cooler than standards, give you an incredible +3 or +4 guaranteed TMM, allow you to downsize the engine to get significantly more heavy weaponry or less expense on board if you keep similar jump levels, and Battle Value/cbill wise are extremely cheap for their versatility. Genuinely no clue why you dislike them this much.
Not an expert on jumping, but I VEHEMENTLY agree on Art IV being overrated. It's also incompatible with alt ammo types, which drastically limits versatility that could otherwise be achieved.
Always loved that image from the 3050 (I think) technical readout with thee Phoenix Hawk IIC striking the anime pose. After all, this is a Clan 'mech. It doesn't have to be practical.
Most of them are awfully practical though. As far as the image goes, it would be from 3055, even though the "original" images used come from the JP version of Battletech/Mechwarrior.
That Mark X upgrade is a fun idea, but you know as well as I do that Triple-Strength Myomer is not an option for the pirates that manufactured that version. After all, Bergan has a monopoly on its production. And, well, *we* control them.
I think the only assault mech that I've seen really work that full complement of improved jump jets is another clan phoenix. The Jade Phoenix, A configuration - space and weight limitations make it seem a worthwhile investment for the close-in weapon loadout (UAC-20 with 4 tons of ammo, and one pulse laser of each size). I guess some Falcon decided "I paid for a fixed partial wing, I'm going to use the whole blitzking thing!" God help me, I love it.
Much like all 80 ton mechs using a XL 400 and for that matter the Wraith the Phoenix Hawk IIC fundamentally fails in that if you drop 5 tons you gain 2 tons of available mass and drop costs. Only if you really need the extra armor or prestige of being a assault mech should you increase above that mass
I liked this video. It was nice, concise, to the point. I wish it had been done a little while after people got their Phoenix Hawk TuahC minis, to submit paintjobs for the video, but still a good video.
Big Red Battletech right now: SOMEONE HAS SPOKEN ABOUT MY MECHFU!!
@@adherentofladycolumbia725 You can do plenty of mech-fu in a Pixie IIC for sure.
I like to incorporate the meta lore of it being intended to have the name of "Matador" and then headcanon that the designers were worried that the warrior caste might find out this is an attempt to fix the Charger into an actual viable cavalry assault mech. And that would just torpedo the whole project. Even if you ignore the Charger's bad reputation for conventional warfare, the Clans shun melee, which is the only area where the charger shined before they left the Sphere. But give this mech the name of a venerable and beloved design like the Phoenix Hawk, and they will have duels to try it.
A Phoenix Hawk that bigger and has clan weapons? Take my C-bills please.
@@rmcdudmk212 It is... Quite distant relative lol.
@@ProfessorHeyTeeEnat least it ain't the 35 ton thing Kurita calls a Phoenix Hawk 😅
@@rmcdudmk212 oh god, don't remind me of the Phoenix Hawk L. It looks so silly...
It's a silly machine made by silly people, but still very capable of killing you.
Also, I love improved jump jets, but really only for medium 'mechs. They weigh too much for lights to use them while still having guns. In heavies and assaults, they only work for the designs that focus on one big weapon and a few smaller ones, like the Victor. Anything else, just use standard jump jets and a few heat sinks. Maybe a partial wing instead.
Yeah the "Phoenix Hawk IIC" never made sense until I heard about Ashley Watkins (the writer who actually devised the specs) actually wrote it up as a completely different concept called the Matador. In all my games since we've just let it be the Matador and devised plenty of proper clan successors to the PH's role to take the IIC title. Honestly I wish the official writers would just do the same and take the opportunity to introduce another popular piece.
I like the lore about the 10 being copied from a pirate by Clan Sea Fox because it works and, well, they sell to anyone.
As for the Improved Jump Jets, yeah they are niche and not too impressive. The Partial Wing can give nearly the same mobility boost with less weight overall (5% for Clan, or 7% for Inner Sphere versions, of the Mechs weight rounded up to nearest .5) slightly fewer crit slots (unless in a mech with the speed of an UrbanMech) and more heat control. Granted, they are more impressive on lights and mediums than heavies and assaults, but they work.
You already said it: Its too silly and too expensive for any sane quartermaster or procurement officer to consider. Luckily this is the Inner Sphere ...
The Inner Sphere is well-known for rather shit procurement yes
If it had been coyote there would have been a LAM. Thanks Adders!
@@andrewrose3748I'd take a 80 tons LAM at some point.
Or Cloud Cobra.
2, 4, 5, 9, and 10 are the variants I'd recommend using, especially the 10 to maximize use of the speed. Barring that, the 2 is able to dump a lot of hurt from behind cover and book it, minimizing risks to your very expensive engine.
For that Artemis Comment, I would not advise putting Artemis on anything. It makes it significantly more expensive, heavier, gets countered by ECM which many units have, and also doesn't even work on indirect fire. It's only worth it in the 3050s on a direct fire mech. Sacrificing multiple tons of armor for it seems not great
Edit: the Improved Jump Jets are great, I have no clue what you're talking about. They run cooler than standards, give you an incredible +3 or +4 guaranteed TMM, allow you to downsize the engine to get significantly more heavy weaponry or less expense on board if you keep similar jump levels, and Battle Value/cbill wise are extremely cheap for their versatility. Genuinely no clue why you dislike them this much.
Not an expert on jumping, but I VEHEMENTLY agree on Art IV being overrated. It's also incompatible with alt ammo types, which drastically limits versatility that could otherwise be achieved.
@@bthsr7113 it's also expensive, costing 25% more Battle Value per launcher. I dunno if that's worth the amount that you sacrifice with Artemis IV.
Always loved that image from the 3050 (I think) technical readout with thee Phoenix Hawk IIC striking the anime pose. After all, this is a Clan 'mech. It doesn't have to be practical.
Most of them are awfully practical though.
As far as the image goes, it would be from 3055, even though the "original" images used come from the JP version of Battletech/Mechwarrior.
@@ProfessorHeyTeeEn Thanks. I was watching late at night & didn't want to crawl out of bed to check which manual.
That Mark X upgrade is a fun idea, but you know as well as I do that Triple-Strength Myomer is not an option for the pirates that manufactured that version. After all, Bergan has a monopoly on its production. And, well, *we* control them.
@@christopherpurches2774 An upgrade kit on a 80 tonner for TSM is crazy expensive as well, but it would be a good Investment
@@ProfessorHeyTeeEn something like 12K per ton for the IS-Specification as an upgrade. Another 16K for *our* upgrade.
BACON! HE POSTED!
Say whatever you want about the effectiveness of the machine, we *have* to agree that this is the most insane deviation from origin to IIC.
Seriously, something this fast, with shoulder mounted guns, walking to your face and punching twice for 8 is scary.
@@ProfessorHeyTeeEn Scary to the 3025 mechs, absolutely, but spiritually faithful to its stated ancestor? Not even a little.
Fatter yes, older no.
@@KageRyuu6 It's like when your younger brother is a foot taller and 100 pound heavier than you.
I think the only assault mech that I've seen really work that full complement of improved jump jets is another clan phoenix. The Jade Phoenix, A configuration - space and weight limitations make it seem a worthwhile investment for the close-in weapon loadout (UAC-20 with 4 tons of ammo, and one pulse laser of each size).
I guess some Falcon decided "I paid for a fixed partial wing, I'm going to use the whole blitzking thing!"
God help me, I love it.
The fact the IJJ take 2 critical slots per makes them terrible on anything that is not a dedicated platform for them I think.
@@isaacrubin9606 there's also the Gargoyle, which can drop roughly 70 points of damage (40 of which comes from 10 damage sources) with a +4 modifier.
I love IIC mechs but holy hell i dislike Phoenix Hawk IIC. The true Phoenix Hawk IIC is the Vapor Eagle so i understand how hard it is to replace it.
@@Axzealot I need to spend some time pouring over the Vapor Eagle / Goshawk in the future.
@@ProfessorHeyTeeEn Thats great. Ill be looking forward to it. Its one of my favorite anti light mech hunter.
Much like all 80 ton mechs using a XL 400 and for that matter the Wraith the Phoenix Hawk IIC fundamentally fails in that if you drop 5 tons you gain 2 tons of available mass and drop costs. Only if you really need the extra armor or prestige of being a assault mech should you increase above that mass
@@spencerjones841 the extra structure and melee potential make up for it
Kicking for 16 is pretty massive, same with 2 punches for 8.
I'm glad I found this channel, really enjoying the content there Professor.
Happy to have you with us on this rollercoaster of learning about 'mechs, a few memes and lots of caffeine.
Such a good mech. Its perfect for its bv and fighting inner shere mechs.
@@ero9841 Again, get those forearms reinforced and you have a wonderful mech to throw fisticuffs.
I liked this video. It was nice, concise, to the point. I wish it had been done a little while after people got their Phoenix Hawk TuahC minis, to submit paintjobs for the video, but still a good video.
Glad you enjoyed it!