A Film Depiction of a Coming Civil War...
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- Опубліковано 17 гру 2023
- Reacting to the 'Civil War' trailer (2024) by Alex Garland.
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The fact that Texas and California is allied is hilarious
It sound really ridiculous lmao, i dont know how the writer is gonna explore this but since he is the same writer of 28 Days Later & Dredd, maybe this movie will be a decent one at least
Trailor looks like shit and the scenes here look like crap. Just a bunch of shooting and killing. I get enough of that on the regular news. I don't need it in my entertainment too. @@nakedbean6649
There are more republicans in CA than any other state.
There's a lot of red in CA and a lot of Blue in TX. So who knows.
Yep! I saw the trailer yesterday and the first thing I said was “seriously, Texas and California?”
But, I do believe the war is coming. I doubt it’ll be Texas and California as a whole. I believe it’ll be roughly 1/3 to 3/4 of the country vs the rest. It’s going to be horrific. But, that’s just where we are anymore. A few are going to say F it and take up arms. That will slowly grow into a small group. Which will then quickly grow into an army.
After living through 9/11, 2nd Iraq War, and the COVID pandemic (and the panic caused by the pandemic) as well as the irrational decisions and policies of our political and elite classes disconnected from the life-experiences of most "average" Americans, people have grown somewhat immune to "shocking" events, especially concerning entertainment.
A famous scholar once said, "You ain't seen nothin' yet.
B-B-B-Baby, you just ain't seen n-n-nothin' yet."
Living through all those events makes me fear this art imitating life even more. I’m exhausted from living through one major catastrophe after another. Yet, I can’t shake the feeling that things are only getting worse. World war 3 has already started through proxy wars, I really believe it’s only a matter of time before it reaches the relatively ‘comfortable’ western countries and changes our lives forever. Just like it already is across so many countries in the global south.
The movie Contagion was released in 2011. I wonder how far ahead this movie is.
It was PLANNED. Jesus there's no helping us is there?
I know what you mean when so many atrocities have become benign the idea of something like a civil war seems like a logical conclusion
Sir you are blessing for us and the way you start the topic and show every aspect of particular topic is amazing
Those of us who have seen war up close and personal can tell you we don't want to ever see this happen now or in the future. It's so painful and leaves scars for the remainder of one's life. I pray we don't continue down the road we're on now.
What recreant unit and MOS were you? I'm a combat vet from Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't know a single combat vet that doesn't pray for Civil War.
Amen
@@jfkst1most of the vets I know are against war, though many believe war of any kind will always be inevitable.
I guess we can’t blame these Americans, most lived at the comfort of being isolated no clue of what true war is like, only just some chess battle in a far away land with sides to be cheered and rooted for like a game of football
This is the thing I wonder about. What would the military do? Because that's the real key deciding moment, what does the military do? As tempting as it is to think that the military is a hard-right organization, the vibe I get from average veterans is that they're sick of this stuff across the board.
So maybe that civil war just rapidly turns into a coup and like Jim Mattis has to tell everyone to calm the hell down while he tries to figure out what to do next lol.
I'm old enough to remember when movies like "Escape from New York" or "Escape from LA" were seen as gonzo or "over-the-top"--at best, satire and social parody, and at worst mindless entertainment in which the collapse and fragmentation of America was a shtick adopted for "shock value" or schlocky--rather than serious social commentary.
But lately, the "trope" of the collapse and fragmentation of the United States in literature and film is seen as less and less shocking, and at this point, may even be "oversaturated" to the point of cliche. Even setting aside post-apocalyptic fiction like the Walking Dead, TV series like Jericho or Handmaid's Tale have explored the a breakup of the United States as a "Very Serious Matter." I don't know what this says about our politics and society, but it says a LOT about our popular culture and media landscape--*namely, that they are incredibly starved for original ideas to monetize.*
I'm morbidly fascinated by the breakup of the US and a looming Civil War. I truly hope this film has been made in a neutral way in the hope that people on both sides can perhaps realise the horror they are sleepwalking into.
Yeah I hope it depicts the horror and tragedy of a civil war to communicate to audience that we must do what we can to prevent such an event from happening here rather than a star wars-esque "Demokracy wens!!11!!" Black and white conflict. But i have very little confidence in hollywood.
I also hope that people realize how unlikely a second american civil war is in the present day. If an undemocratic shift of power is to occur in the US, it will take the form of a coup, not of a civil war. The military institutions of the US aren't politicized enough to even consider engaging in a civil war. Unless the army becomes politicized, a civil war isn't going to happen.
Well California and Texas are together against the rest. More unrealistic is hardly possible
I admire the sentiment, but hold out little hope that something in line with it is what this movie will present.
"To prevent"
The right asked the establishment Left to treat them with dignity and justice.
Instead, the Left spat in the Right's face and slandered them, and figured our more ways to rig the system against everyone not the Neoliberal new world order.
The thing that struck me was, a lot like you said, it's showing us what it'd look like... But I didn't really feel like it was even trying to warn us. It felt as resigned as Lee's admittance "I thought I was sending a warning back home.", as if it doesn't matter how bad it's going to be, we are already, mentally, emotionally past the vanishing point. The majority of the movie did not even hurt to watch.
Nobody even cares who the president is. So many already don't care who the president was, who he is, or who they will be. Perfect disillusionment. No faith in, or want to participate inside of, a political system where two supposed opposites leave the same taste in your mouth, with only a change in garnish.
There is a quote, possibly from either Alexander Solzhenitsyn or Lt. Col. John Dean "Jeff" Cooper, that is apropos here:
“The most terrifying force of death comes from the hands of Men who wanted to be left Alone. They try, so very hard, to mind their own business and provide for themselves and those they love. They resist every impulse to fight back, knowing the forced and permanent change of life that will come from it. They know that the moment they fight back, their lives as they have lived them, are over. The moment the Men who wanted to be left alone are forced to fight back, it is a form of suicide. They are literally killing off who they used to be. Which is why, when forced to take up violence, these Men who wanted to be left alone, fight with unholy vengeance against those who murdered their former lives. They fight with raw hate, and a drive that cannot be fathomed by those who are merely play-acting at politics and terror. TRUE TERROR will arrive at these people’s door, and they will cry, scream, and beg for mercy… but it will fall upon the deaf ears of the Men who just wanted to be left alone.”
One of my favorite quotes. Thanks for sharing it.
How's this 'apropos'?
Apply that to me but very much less aggressive and it’s only about movies being messed with for the political lol
Enjoyed the quote and time taken to share, saved it on my phone.
@@horusfalcon Sounds like an edgy bit of juvenile fantasy coming from an avowed antisemite. Lemme guess, you see yourself as this bringer of 'TRUE TERROR' 🤣
This applies to me!
In 2005, the game "Shattered Union" was released on PC and Xbox. The intro/trailer is here on youtube. It presents a rather credible path to civil war. I think that narrative has been on peoples' radar for a while.
I was thinking about that game when the presenter remarked on the relevance of this movie had it been made 20 years ago.
Also look up the trailer for the game "Patriots" by Rainbow Six. I think the game got cancelled due to a lot of controversy
The new "Day After."
They were like, "How do we make sure no one ever sees this as non-fiction?". Put Texas and California on the same team....
The line Kristen Dunst Character delivers in the trailer "Every time I survived a war zone, I thought I was sending a warning home. Don't do this" is prophetic and a warning from the film makers themselves to the audience
Then the left should stop trying to arrest their political opposition; otherwise the right 100% has a duty to defend themselves.
it's setting up the rules. They know you won't stop it.
Where can I watch this film?
She really fell off as an actress 😔
@@deannacousin2339wait till April when it's released in usa theaters
I think so many people are desensitized to violence as an abstract concept that they have very little connection to or understanding of the realities of war. Will be interesting to see how this movie deals with the topic, and what viewers take from it.
I still remember my high school ROTC teacher, Vietnam vet explaining to us the obvious (but still needed to be said): "It's not like they show in the movies, when you get shot, *it hurts* !"
Yeah, I'm sure all the conservative combat veterans don't understand violence as well as you, a Fortnight veteran.
@@hansblitz7770 Never played Fortnight, but thanks for assuming. My father was in the military for 27 years. My brother deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. My sister in law also served. So, yeah, I understand the sacrifice more than most, but not as much as some. But combat veterans are nowhere near the majority. And they’re not all conservatives.
@@hansblitz7770 Did you really have to?
I hope A24 makes it gruesome & disgusting both literally and morally, a horror movie but playing on "adult fear" (as tv tropes puts it). This topic should not be glamorized or action-movie like at all. The fact that the protagonists aren't soldiers is a good sign.
I think it's inevitable. I'm resigned to it happening because neither "side" has room to compromise. There is only one reality, and this is the process of reconciling different ones.
Looks like an awesome documentary.
Excelente!
I agree that the concept doesn’t have much novelty anymore.
I disagree with the optimists. I think we are not going to save the country. Nor does that particularly bother me. I don’t think most regions of America have much in common with one another and maybe it’s time we go our separate ways. I feel some kinship to the region I’m from with similar values and demographic makeup, but I don’t feel beholden to the idea of nationalism. In other words, for example, when that drunk lady in Jersey told those Germans “get out of our country” I cannot fathom why that would be something someone would hold onto so emotionally as if it was their local sports team.
Both institutions and the concept of objective reality have been eroded so hard that I don’t think there is any turning back at this point
I lived in Manhattan for a couple years and then had to move back to Huntsville Alabama and I’m telling you there’s no huge difference in the people. I know people think there’s a big difference between people and regions but there really isn’t. The differences are between college educated and not. That’s where you will see big voting differences.
I watched the trailer (I'm not in the US and am less emotionally invested in its structural integrity). However, the movie appears to fail to illustrate one critical element differentiating a modern US civil from a historical one. It seems to assume that the other powers in the world will leave the US to its own devices through the processes, which is highly unlikely; several other countries would aid one side or the other, hoping for the union's dissolution and beneficial licenses from the victors. The sea while vast, is not such an impediment as it once was.
That was something i was wondering about too. A US civil war would have far reaching consequences for almost all nations. The world wouldn't stand still until it is resolved either.
@@Twiggorized, when I asked how foreign powers might attempt to undermine the US, most people in the states don't seem to be able to fathom the concept. Talking about civil war is generally accepted and safe to discuss with US citizens, but that other countries might angle to dismantle the US via economic or or military means given the chance is completely impossible in their minds. Granted, that might be as much due to the forms I have had the chance to discuss the topic, but from a few repeated attempts, there appears to be a genuine blind spot in the US zeitgeist regarding foreign powers. This is quite a change from the former civil war, where both sides constantly considered the influences of France and Britain. What do you think changed to cause the US public to become less considerate of the outside world?
@@An_Attempt hard to say for me as I am not a US citizen. The US became such a powerhouse after WW2, it acted on the outside world to far greater extend than the other way around. I wonder how much it is due to a narrative of US supremacy, but I have no insight into that. The US can also sustain itself quite well in isolation in its current form, there is barely any other nation that can say that, so maybe this leads to an elevated concern for national issues over international relations, however shortsighted that may be.
LOL. If there was ever a true civil war in America, the country wouldn't last more than a few months. First, because the nation's infrastructure would crumble. Causing millions of people to die from hunger or thirst. Secondly, China and Russia would seize the opportunity to attack us from every front. Not to mention the mass invasion from the southern border.
This will be a war between good and evil. Example: on one side, perversion is accepted and celebrated, while the other side sees perversion as a grave sin and does not want it taught to their kids. Many other examples, but you get the point.
Reminds me of the climate in 1860. People didn’t hide their contempt for each other then, and we don’t now. After Bull Run, Wilson’s Creek and Shiloh, we may have regretted our choices but it was too late.
The day we war ourselves over is the day I will truly cry, for the life lost will be absolutely horrifying.
It won't happen that way precisely for this reason. None of us wants to cry over that and this country is not Yugoslavia. When Scotland finally votes to leave the UK in a few years, it will not cost a single life because neither party wants to repeat the Irish experience. Been there, done that. Same with Americans looking back at 1865 -- "let's not take that road again, guys. Too many headstones along the route."
Yay! Finally, another Ryan Chapman upload! All fanboying for Ryan aside, Ryan's commentary about the muted reaction to this film is chilling.
Im ready for it
Taking the end statements from Ryan Chapman's "How World War 2 Began" about the pre-1920's "dog eat dog, nation eat nation" model and moving into the post 1920's world of veiling that same process in the terms of politics rather than guns with the League of Nations, yet failing to stop war anyway, with the same (or worse) thing with the United Nations being coopted by "king maker" tactics in deciding the fate of the internal business of nations, the Hague and the like, things will not change if we have a "civil war". In fact, they will probably be effected far more quickly and efficiently as foreign nations step in claiming to want to "help" restore the US to what it was before while at the same time destroying it on BOTH sides for their own gain.
That is the conundrum we face: collapse in chaos or die in civil war. It has always been thus and cannot be changed. Our people are divided, not so much by coherent factions but incoherent chaos, cross purposes and dissolution of culture. There is no longer a central "morality" to which we may appeal and as such there can be no understanding of each other. This creates vulnerable weakness at a time when actual wars may be measured in hours or days as to what the outcome will be with a loss of life which will stagger belief compared to all of the wars of the last century.
But that is the direction in which we are headed and it will not be stopped until it is too late. Man is essentially unfit to govern man...
Also, Chapman’s comments reminded me of the galvanizing effects of films like The Day After. I seem to remember reading that it had a profound effect on Reagan and that it contributed towards his later peace efforts with the Soviets.
There was a TV movie in the 1990s about a Civil war in modern day called "The Second Civil War"(1997). so it seems like the idea been around for a long time.
Yeah, people act like this is the most divided America has ever been. I think this might even be the third most divided America has ever been. The 90's were super contentious, the 60's were like pure anarchy at times, and obviously the lead up to the Civil War was extremely violent long before the war ever started.
Then there was JMS's series "Jericho" a couple decades back, about the same thing, including alternate RW&B striped flags, terrorism, nukes and flight to the independent Republic of Texas.
Then there's the various Sci Fi books, shows and movies.
It really isn't a new thing in media.
I loved Jericho, great show. @@STho205
This is silliness.
*To all those saying things to the effect of 'civil war is not something you want' understand, that of every type of war that can be had among mankind, a "civil" war is never one that is "wanted", but is always one the occurs due to apparent necessity.*
I had similar thoughts. It almost feels as if this movie is a part of priming us for the future and people seem quite passive about it. I really hope that isn’t the road we are headed down.
Many movies prime us for some future, its just a reflection of the fears or desires of the creator and what motivates them to create a message for people in the first place, or what the creators think people are worried about
The optimistic idea is that it will scare people into being kinder to their neighbors, like how the 1980s film _The Day After_ shocked people enough into not wanting a nuclear war.
I think we're one financial crisis, COVID lockdown or botched effort at reinstating the draft away from it.
I heard at least a dozen times on TimCast Tim Pool talking about the civil war coming, and the national divorce, and I had the same thoughts like people are being primed for it
Remember that crappy joker movie and people being warned it could elicit exstreame behavoirs...acting out. By the military no less.
Do you remember what happed next with co vid, shutdowns, floyd etc?
People seem to be drawn to this apocalyptic, civil-war storyline - at least the stylized version of it that comes from Hollywood (and is meant make money for rich studio owners by attaching a stimulating storyline to the Pop-Culture gestalt). I think it appeals somewhere deep in the brain where there is a longing for a higher purpose than the mundane day-to-day of boring jobs sporadically interrupted by slightly more interesting distractions and these kinds of storylines seem to be a solution to that. Of course, when people insert themselves into these stories they are the epic, heroic figures, not first causalities or pitiful refugees, something that in reality they are much, much more likely to be.
hopefully the protaganist is like a farcry protaganist
2:20 Adminstrative Results mentioned!!!!
I think the fact people treat the film so casually should be a good sign.
Outside of the political extremes, the average person is not taking this idea seriously; despite the talk of a “new civil war” being out there in recent years.
There is still a comfort with this story as an abstraction. Just like the “how would you survive the zombie apocalypse?” question even though we all know zombies aren’t real.
@Scarface4TX Zombies are real. You've clearly never seen the feral meth heads that stagger around my city.
That's what I was also thinking. It's quite revealing that the Barbie movie sparked more controversy than Oppenheimer. Division is unlikely to start a civil war without intolerance. If people have accepted the divide, I think that keeps things stable... for now.
I'd respond that it's only a good thing if the signs that we're headed for a real civil war are misleading/false. If the signs are accurate, then I'd argue that people probably should take the signs and conversation seriously.
Zombies are real. UA-cam doesn't allow it or I'd link you to the study. Here's an excerpt. "But zombies remain without will, in a trancelike state, a condition vodounists attribute to the power of the priest. Davis thinks it possible that the psychological trauma of zombification may be augmented by Datura or some other drug; he thinks zombies may be fed a Datura paste that accentuates their disorientation. Still, he puts the material basis of zombification in perspective: “Tetrodotoxin and Datura are only templates on which cultural forces and beliefs may be amplified a thousand times.”
Davis has not been able to discover how prevalent zombification is in Haiti. “How many zombies there are is not the question,” he says. He compares it to capital punishment in the United States: “It doesn’t really matter how many people are electrocuted, as long as it’s a possibility.” As a sanction in Haiti, the fear is not of zombies, it’s of becoming one."
You can find it in Harvard magazine, issue 10.31.2017 under Faculty and Research.
Does that mean we boog now?
@@realryanchapmanI truly feel we are heading towards major civil unrest. If you think it can be prevented I’m genuinely interested in finding that path.
I didn't comment on the trailer video, but I find it horrifying... But also there is a space held in my head for the very real possibility of this. I've had it for a while, I try not to think about it. But it's there. I think it's there for the majority of Americans wether it's something they want or not. I've talked about it with friends and family. Its in social media. There whispers if you will, and idk what it would take to start but I think the kindling is dry enough. I am terrified of this possibility.
Sometimes you don't get what you want, you get what you need.
A lot of people think a massive setback to this country and civilisation would be kinda fun. They think they will be Mel Gibson in Mad Max. They don't think starvation and dying of dysentery.
I found the trailer apalling.
A civil war would be utterly horrifying.
The ease with which I've seen some discussing such a possibility is very concerning.
I suspect the reason that Texas and California are allied in the film is to improve the show's reception. It allows the filmmakers to avoid taking an explicit side in actual political conflicts... and thereby avoids offending a lot of the potential audience. Instead, the focus can be on bringing to life the horror of a future US civil war and providing a cautionary tale. This movie logic makes the show less realistic, but may allow it to have a larger ultimate impact.
Time to take all
We the people.
I read quite a bit of speculative fiction and it's difficult to find a "near future" drama that does not include a fractured United States. It's a meme that appears to be baked into the public consciousness. Like the discovery of extraterrestrial life, a 2nd Civil War is likely to be greeted not with shock, but with expressions of "What took you so long?"
To be fair, writers are very lazy.
"Oh, other large multicultural empires split into fractured regional powers? History just repeats itself, right??"
Interesting subject! Personally I think it highlights an interesting point about the short memory of the American collective consciousness. Had this dropped in Fall 2020, I think it would’ve been met with a more concerned and uneasy feeling as the notion of a second civil war hit closer to home for many. But in the lull between elections, before Primary season kicks into full swing, it’s something that feels a lot less on the nose. I think another big diffusing element of an otherwise fairly grim and intense trailer is the outlandish sides drawn up. The idea of California and Texas teaming up to take on the East Coast seems laughable. And I think that was done deliberately to quell political tensions that could’ve been stirred from the topic.
Also what is the best way to stay in the loop w your content? Twitter? Patreon? I love your work! Happy holidays!
California and Texas have absolutely massive military bases and massive economies. There are are roughly 20 million adult Republican leaning and 25 million Democrat leaning residents of those states combined, excluding non-registered voters and independents. This doesn't account for the fact that there are many shades of "democrat" in California, and that there is a wiiiddeee gulf in the electorate and the elected in California.
It really wouldn't take a writing miracle to explain why the states teamed up to take on the Federal government.
The film's release date is April 26th next year, right at the tail end of primary season. If they wanted a release window lining up with irl political tension, then they picked it well.
I think realistically, you wouldn't see a group of states vs the federal government and another group of states like in the last civil war. The fault lines are mainly between big cities and rural/small town areas within the same states. The two sides are totally intermeshed with each other now, there wouldn't be any front line or large swathes of secured territory, there would just be bloody light infantry combat absolutely everywhere. Victory would probably hinge on which side could reliably identify the majority of the other sides members first, probably by combing through social media records from before the war.
People think of US states as blue and red, but the margins are a lot closer. 46.5% of Texas voted for Biden in 2020, 52% for Trump. Now that's enough to gain the State's electoral vote, but there sure are a lot of people that would be opposed in all states about entering either side in any possibly civil war.
My name is, Thomas
People have had enough nomatter who you are nowadays and we live in scary times right now. This film makes sense over the sequence of events and bad people are going to lose in the end.
Thank you for reading my comment and have a great day.
Interesting take 👏👏
gee I wonder who the bad guys are in the movie
the side that you agree with, whoever that is
Prolly socialists
Americans love blaming socialists and everything they dont like or disagree with is "communism" lol
California and Texas are allied. I'm sure your idiot viewpoint is dismantled with that information.
I think people aren't fazed because it's something that is commonly brought up every now and then, but I don't think anyone genuinely believes it could happen anytime soon. I think the period that led to the Civil War was just more starkly divided along geographical lines, which isn't as much the case now.
Exactly. Plus, civil wars and revolutions don't happen from the grass-roots up, but almost invariably from the elites down. Civil wars happen when two (or more) very powerful and wealthy groups conflict with each other (The US civil war is a good example: wealthy industrialist liberals in the north and wealthy plantation owners in the south). The French Revolution happened because a very wealthy bourgeois class was growing powerful, yet the political system only involved nobility, royalty and clergy. So they overthrew the system.
PEople are more afraid of stochastic terrorism and rebel groups. If a civil war happened in the US again, sure, it wouldn't really be like our first civil war. It'd be more like insurgents in Iraq. Picture strongholds on the pacific and atlantic coasts and the mid west as well, while the rest of America being on the other side.
Ideology is the divide now. Left vs. Right.
@@JamesTaylor-on9nzthe Vatican killed Lincoln because of what he said about the Jesuits
Hmm, I fear it's worse. The strong point of the movie, which most US citizens don't get, is that the sides don't matter, just the awful actions both sides will commit thinking they're in the right. This dangerous idiocy is the core of what's wrong in the US and even exploited in the rhetorics of many politicians and online creators.
The War Between the States 1861-65 American killed each other wholesale. So many that more died than in all the rest of our wars combined. When it was over there were about 3/4 of a million casualties.
Ive seen so many people on the internet calling for a civil war for years now. Was waiting for a movie like this to happen
I hadn't seen or heard about it until just now, but this immediately reminded me of the atrocious purge movies... Though they substantially differ in concept perhaps, the imaginable consequential reality ordinary people would face appear equally horrifying...
Very interesting how the film is being interpreted by the different ends of the political spectrum.
Your thoughts on this film was precisely what I thought when I saw the trailer. It's not saying, look where we're going. it's saying, whoa, don't go there.
Grey State
My problem with trying to portray a wide-spread civil war like this movie does is that they rarely if ever explain what causes the US military to become divided. It's just always taken as an assumption that the military would easily be deployed against US citizens, but that would run afoul of the Posse Comitatus Act. Perhaps an executive order defying the Posse Comitatus Act would be the thing to split the military. I dunno, these things always feel like fantasy because any lasting conflict would require a divided military and I don't see how that would actually happen in the real world. Not saying it couldn't happen, but it usually gets ignored by film-makers.
I honestly think when this releases it will be a big, big talking piece. The casualness you're seeing is from the most addicted of internet users. But the themes speak to a core fear of Americans, something that everyone is getting more paranoid about. I'm not saying it's going to be the highest grossing film of all time or anything. It won't be. But there are similar films that instantly grab at the national consciousness, for some reason or another. A recentish example of this would be Don't Look Up. It became Netflix's highest grossing original film out of *nowhere*, because it spoke to people's anxieties of coronavirus and climate change.
Also this an A24, big-budget action drama. Very distinct from the age of capeshit and reboots we're finally moving on from. Audiences are thirsty for something more weighty. They want neither Iron Man nor to go back to something like Transformers. They want something more like Oppenheimer or Dune. This movie is along those lines, except with more social relevance.
So I kinda disagree with you Ryan. People are afraid of civil war and are thinking about it more and more. Either from the left or the right. They will probably see this movie. And culture wars surrounding the movie will probably increase the audience.
It will flop. Republicans will mostly notice the (not so) subtle blaming this in the hated filled white republican male so they won't watch it.
And Democrats don't really care for this kind of movie....rather go binge watch Hamilton or some alternative history bullshit like that...betcha a beer.
"But what kind of American are you"...that line is chilling.
Almost 20 years ago Jericho was on the small screen. I don't remember much about it and it was rushed to a conclusion, But if I remember right, it was about an American Civil War.Correct me if I'm wrong.
This film isn't a prelude to a modern American civil war any more than a 1980's WW3 film was a prelude to nuculear war. It's also not the first to depict the scenrio. If a civil war does occur historians may try to make a connection between the two but if a civil war does not occur it will just be another movie that gets forgotten about.
famous last words....
I agree. The prelude to the next American civil war is when you have a political party perverting the law in the most unprecedentedly grotesque ways in American history to seek to seize the private assets of, seize the cash reserves of, attempting to imprison their political opposition as well as using that very same lawfare to remove their opposition from the ballot and silence the American people and using these acts of lawfare during an election cycle to stop their political opposition from being able to campaign against them. I'd say that keeping political prison in a federal prison which is ran by the very same political party engaging in these acts of lawfare and doing so despite their own constituency base not only doing the very same thing but in a way that it's been a hundredfold worse would all combine as a sign of not a precursor to civil war but the fact that we are actively in a civil war which only one side is fighting.
Would you like to know how I know this is a sign of civil war? Because throughout modern history anytime that we've seen factions within a nation engage in these acts is always been defined as civil war.
Somehow all the zombie movies seem like a prelude to this.
Seeing it from the other side of the Atlantic, can from a very superficial POV seem entertaining. But Europe will not be able to cohere without the US so it really is also a nightmare for us.
From a cynical Hollywood perspective, I think this is being explored as the new disaster sub-genre, similar to zombies in the 2010s and asteroids in the 1990s.
It would be a nightmare for the whole world too. A civil war in the biggest economy in the world would plunge the world into a huge recession and countries like Russia, China, Iran and North Korea would use this opportunity to invade their neighbors, since the US is busy and won't be able to stop them. A civil war in the US could just as well lead to WW3. Not a world war between two sides, but a world war with many sides at the same time. Europe vs Russia, China and North Korea vs South Korea, Japan and Taiwan, Iran vs Saudi Arabia and their proxies in the region, and the US vs itself.
>But Europe will not be able to cohere without the US
You probably shouldn't make statements on the internet that make you sound like an idiot.
Why not? Because of Russia? Damn, I wish we had an opportunity to evaluate Russia's military performance against a peer opponent. You know, like all of Europe would be (500 million vs. 40 million Ukrainians).
It's not like Russian tanks could roll into the capitals, either, unless Moscow wants to risk a nuke to the face.
So what are you speaking of?
@@TheOsamaBahama yeah. Not to think about what would happen to Israel.
it would mean a third world war. the entire world would go down with us and people here don't seem to get this film missed a huge reality...other powers would invade and pick sides.
Just keep pumping the DEI, CRT and it is for sure
We The People stand your ground.
I thought the film seemed more like it was priming the pump than warning us.
I predict conservatives will be portrayed negatively in this movie. I knew the moment the "divisive" guy in cammies was depicted with his finger on the trigger the movie was made by someone who doesn't have a clue.
As for all those people doubting Texas and California would join forces, they don't seem to realize that outside the cities California is a conservative state. Why else would the Democrats need more votes than they have eligible voters in order to hold on to their power? So who knows, maybe the guy making the movie might have a clue.
Wasn't Obama involved with this film? Of course conservatives will be the bad guys.
Brother, idk how to break this to you, but land doesn’t vote, people do. This is why California remains comfortably a blue state.
Way too soon to judge if that character is supposed to be an entirely good or bad guy, or even if he's liberal, conservative or even leftist. I mean, I'm guessing he'll be conservative, but I wouldn't be surprised either way.
Also wouldn't be surprised if Texas and California were succeeding for non-ideological reasons. Perhaps they find out that it's more economic beneficial to dump the rest of the country. There may be a bit of contrivance, but I'm guessing they're avoiding Trump-era politics mostly, and for good reason.
I wonder what's worse - the possibility you don't know what's really happening, or the possibility you know but pretend it isn't real.@@reedsims5407
You sounded like you had a point to make until your TDS flared up. At any rate, I think it would be beneficial for most of the states to dump the "rest of the country" - meaning Washington DC.@@seanicus100
There was a cool TV show like this called Jericho. Unfortunately it ended too soon.
Yes, it was pretty good.
Although I am convinced that we will ultimately save the country and her Constitution, what I fear is how bad things will get before we turn it around.
Why save the constitution and not just get an improved version?
@@deaddevil7 I suppose it depends on what one considers "an improved version".
Jefferson advocated a brand new constitution every 19 years jsyk
@@plipplopblop1679 Do you have a reference for that advocacy??
@@sampson1952 copy and paste "Jefferson 19 years" into Google
"The motivation for creating films like these, I think, is typically a preventative one."
No. This is not some film grad student piece, or passion project (albeit, it is a A24 film). It is a major Hollywood production motivated by 100% desire for profit. Alex Garland had made/written films focusing on society's/mankind's failings and societal collapse. I think Civil War is simply just another movie being made for profit, and its creators are trying to tap into the well of political polarization that is defining a large portion of American political culture. It is kind of gross they made a film like this, honestly. I much would have preferred a film that focused on the toxic effects of social media and consolidated mass media (i.e., mainstream media) created echo chambers, and how said media organizations cause negative political externalities like radicalism/reactionary-ness by trying to capture a political market of news consumers (conservative versus liberal news consumers).
Both motivations for making the film can be true simultaneously
Yap session
Preventative for whom? I find it especially relevant this will come out during the primary election season during a Presidential election year. If it was purely for profit, it would have either come out nearly 3 years ago or in the spring of 2025 after inauguration.
The narrative of a civil war is because most Americans are conflict virgins and sensitive crybabies. While there was a war in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc, they didn't affect civilian life. So you have super sensitive lay people who think anything that hurts their feelings or minor acts of isolated terrorism is a "war act"...they also "cancel" things, which is about the closest war thing they've done in their life. A war proper is an expensive proposition and usually not as effective as economic leverage. California already dominates the political system because of the numbers it has.
The scary thing is, it’s going to happen, been orchestrated; and the movie is showing what’s about to happen. “I don’t see NO GHOSTS!”
It amazes me how art imitates life. Remember the movie "Pathway To Paradise?" The end of that movie still gives me the creeps. The actor who portrayed the part as the mastermind behind the first attempt to knock down the World Trade Center. He said, "Next time, we'll knock them down!" They did!!!!
I hadn't heard about the film but I watched the trailer. It's a bit unsettling but I think that is because the topic is so ripe. As for the media response to it, it's hard for me to tell how the media operates. It could simply be changing times and the shift in how media is consumed. It could be that the [traditional] media is still somewhat shell-shocked by how they have covered political things in the recent past, but I find it unlikely that those lessons have been well learned.
What has always concerned me about this issue in particular is just how wrong I think most people's - including the movie writers, apparently - perceptions of what a modern US civil war would look like. There is little cohesive reason to believe this would look like a post-incorporation version of the war between the states, and not more like that of 1776. As people frequently like to mention, only about 1/3 of the colonists were "patriots".
I put this movie in the same genre as Red Dawn or The Man in the High Castle. It might also be a warning to the people with extreme agendas. Be careful what you wish for.
The problem with fascists is that they think that they will control the situation. But we all going to be victims.
Look, 1860-64 over 600,000 people died "here" on US soil. Thats more than all wars combined (Wikipedia) one need only look st the different population size now, and it easy to get some grasp of the magnitude of such a thing happening again. Food for thought.
It's not going to be left vs right , as many seem to think. It's going to be the government vs the people, fed vs. states trying to secede.
The casual reaction may be because modern politically-engaged internet culture is nigh-impossible to shock. The dangerous rhetoric going around appears very tied to how many very online individuals (especially anonymous ones) reach for the top shelf in their rhetoric and hypotheticals, but fail to grasp the significance of what they're saying or engaging with.
…or they do
My guess is people are calm about it because the possibility of it is much more distant than the filmmakers probably think.
Looking back over recent history, I'd say 2016 was the year when people were most irritated with each other. It's been slowly settling down since then, even though there have been efforts by politicians and the media to rile people up.
_"efforts by politicians and the media to rile people up"_
Fox News exists for this reason only.
Nah. That's a nice narrative. But I think really they just slapped a big gag in DT's mouth and hog tied him behind a courthouse. All those people are still there and they still think exactly what they thought in 2016. They just know for certain now that the "them" is really coming for "us."
I wish that were true, because I do not want the United States to come apart like what happened in the former Yugoslavia states. And that’s a pretty good picture of how it can go down. Their societies are not better for it.
This election year, 2024, we see that there are some powerful people that are so terrified that Trump might win a second term that they are willing to break laws and shun principles by whatever means necessary to make sure that that doesn’t happen. They’ve jailed grandmothers, sent journalists to federal prison over misdemeanors, and with this latest push in Colorado, used activist judges to deny one political party the chance to nominate their preferred candidate, and 2024 hasn’t even started yet. As with the case of the plot to kidnap Michigan governor Gretchen Widmer, we see current members of our federal agencies actively goading, trying to make something inappropriate happen, until they finally get some sorry sap to fall into their trap. Things are going to escalate. I hope and pray that nobody takes the bait.
Theres nothing especially novel about the US breaking up like the USSR did -- V for Vendetta, set in the 2040s, features UK broadcasters matter-of-factly relating news from "the former United States" without any description of how it came to that status. Jarring to hear the first time, but after all todays students have to be told what this Soviet Union thing was all about (a surreal experience for those of us who grew up during the Cold War). The situations are quite different but no Soviet citizen in 1975 could have envisaged tv reporters providing updates on "the Russian war against Ukraine" less than 50 years hence. And nobody in the US, even those who would welcome splitting up the country politically, wants to do it the horrific way it was attempted in the 1860s, nor would the military allow it to reach such a point before crushing any large-scale rebellion with massive force. The idea rather would be that an amicable divorce would be negotiated by all parties involved, with minimal violence. The steep price in blood & treasure that had been exacted by 1865 is simply not worth it in the modern age and there are far preferable models available nowadays.
I’m in South Carolina and if History does repeat itself, seceding the Union is a very important step in protecting our Constitution
At first I laughed at the idea of California and Texas teaming up. However when I thought about it I don't think they we're coming from a political point of view. I'm a former Marine and I was stationed at Camp Pendleton which is massive. They also have an air Wing in California and a large naval base. Texas has one of the largest army base if not the largest army base in the United States so those two states and their combined conservative and moderate figures teaming up wouldn't be so far-fetched. And if that were to happen being that both the army base and the Marine Corps bases in California were completely unified in the objective and there was no division of ideals on those bases, Texas and California will be a formidable foe against the rest of the United States. They would have the advantage in every way. From the shipping ports to the Natural Resources . The East Coast have ports but doesn't have have the natural resources. It would be a complete Massacre. Hopefully the movie is shocking enough to prevent both the left and the right to cool it with the minor things that divides us.
I feel like they chose those two states entirely based on the potential power dynamic, but completely ignoring that civil conflicts don't stem from opportunity. They come from the conflict between passion for a cause and power. Never mind that (and you know this) those bases are American military bases. If there was such a power dynamic dividing the country, those bases would be ground zero for conflict. Who sides with the Feds and who sides with the secessionists...on the base?
Not to mention the total 19 states who have succeeded in this movie. Also each state has its own national guard along with equipment and basses and personnel.
@@nickmonks9563not really in the 1st civil war the south took over us bases in its territory and when the base at fort Sumner refused the the war started
This movie was made to acclimate you to the idea.
Best part of your comment -
“ Hopefully the movie is shocking enough to ( motivate )
The left and right to cool it with the minor things that divide us “.
BOTH sides plus MSM are playing a game of profiting off of division .
We need better leadership .
Unfortunately it is very difficult to break through the stranglehold on power of the two parties plus their financiers .
People need to wake up .
Campaign finance reform ,
Term limits , ….
We are blessed with a huge piece of fertile land , great infrastructure and institutions
( still )…
But it can be lost
So the hardest thing to “suspend-disbelief” for would, at first glance, be Texas and California teaming up.
It would have to be a “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” kinda thing.
We assume 2 sides but considering Cali and Texas have the #1 and #2 biggest economies respectively, maybe those two wanna split off into their own countries and are fighting the Fed together to do it.
Could actually be pretty good were that the case
Good point. They're probably will be more than just 2 sides.
California has no incentive to leave. California is the ideological fortress of the DNC who have basically captured all walks of American life. From the media, the intelligencia, and business.
What people tend to miss is California is mostly farm land with massive urban centers that tend to dominate it.
Sound like any other place you know?
The suspension of disbelief is that Colorado doesn't also join.
@@quintessenceSL Until you said Colorado, I was thinking you were meaning New York.
I think that what I'm looking at is a 75 million dollar advertising campaign for long term food storage. Guns, ammunition,camping and survival gear. Being released during an election year.
“By transporting us there, (the film) can help us understand that what we're talking about truly is horrible and it can help us therefore desire to avoid it. That is assuming -if it’s still a safe assumption- that we don’t actually want another civil war.”
I agree. Perhaps this movie can be a public service.
I am not expecting a very intelligent treatment of a modern day civil war from a film that proposes California and Texas joined forces to break with the greater US, but we’ll find out in 2024.
Wouldn't be surprised if it's something like California and Texas succeeding for entirely economic reasons. Not really ideological. Those are the two most populous states. There could be a contrived reason why they may feel like there's a good economic reason for them to leave the union that has nothing to do with republicans vs democrats.
California and Texas have absolutely massive military bases and massive economies. There are are roughly 20 million adult Republican leaning and 25 million Democrat leaning residents of those states combined, excluding non-registered voters and independents. This doesn't account for the fact that there are many shades of "democrat" in California, and that there is a wiiiddeee gulf in the electorate and the elected in California.
It really wouldn't take a writing miracle to explain why the states teamed up to take on the Federal government.
Its based on a book written a few decades back
It's also likely to prevent the movie from coming off as partisan. At least, I hope so. If I were making a movie like this, I'd want to get bogged down in republicans & democrats the least amount possible and focus on the concept of normal people in a civil war situation. Make more than a passing reference to the irl political sides and half the population won't internalize the message of the movie instantly.
It makes sense if canonically California has a far-right backlash in response to it's current management.
Without insult intended, America has no imagination for this kind of thing. The first civil war is long since forgotten, and 9/11 was the closest thing to a modern ‘blitz’ as we had over here. Yet even in this age of technology, for many the sting of 9/11 has worn off or simply not remembered. Many adults settling down now weren’t even born then. I mention the blitz, because from our grandparents memories our parents share this kind of muted memory of the horror of the blitz, I was told by my late nan about the sound of the V2’s, the doodlebugs. How when the V2 sound stopped is when people would panic. 9/11 was horrific but it was one incident. Imagine that incident drawn over years, being evacuated long term, returning to your HOME in rubble. America has no recent generational memory of these things, and so no imagination for these things. For all its imperial might, America has been rather sheltered in modern times, aside from that one very big bloody nose in 2001, which was still just a bloody nose in scale. I’ll reiterate this isn’t meant to insult or belittle the losses of 9/11, but we have to admit the internet or social media has really dulled the sort of collective memory of 9/11. Because in the blitz there was no social media etc all you had to do all day was listen to the radio or the stories of your parents. Personal and horrific stories that stick in the mind. In this modern era that just hasn’t had the same effect. If you asked an average young person I wonder if they’d even be able to identify what even happened on 9/11.
I think your comment can also be supplemented with remembering that except for Pearl Harbor we as a country were mostly spared from seeing death on our own soil from the World Wars. Nearly all countries in existence that aren’t in North or South America had lost land, people, and places due to the World Wars.
I think you nan was talking about the V1. The V2 was a supersonic ballistic weapon, so it's noise of travel followed the noise of its impact and explosion by a few seconds. The V1 was the world's first cruise missile, powered by a pulsed ramjet which shut down as it approached the target for its terminal glide phase. Yes, both weapons created undeniable panic in the minds of Londoners and others in England during WWII. That was one of its intended functions.
You may find the memory of the War Between the States burns a trifle more brightly in the Deep South. I still see front license plates depicting a Confederate soldier with the words, "Fergit? Hell!" or, "Hell No, I Ain't Fergittin'!" That divisive war and its aftermath, Reconstruction, had monstrous impact on the Southern landscape, economics, and culture. Of course, many of the folks displaying them have no real idea of what it is they are actually remembering... All the same, a good many Southerners know their history well enough to be proud of parts of it, and ashamed of others if they are honest about it.
Let me preface my next remarks with my own stance on slavery: Slavery has existed since the foundations of the world were laid, and has affected almost every racial or ethnic group in history. Ask the Uchinanchu about life under Japanese occupation. Ask the Irish about four hundred years of British oppression in which any attempt to educate an Irish child could result in execution of the teacher. These are just two instances of slavery, and there are many, many, more. ALL instances of slavery throughout history are undeniably WRONG. No human being should have claim of ownership over another.
Some folks from up North like to pretend there was a rich and slave-owning "Gone With the Wind" plantation under every rock. Not everyone in the South owned slaves, and slavery was only one of the reasons (albeit the most publicized and galvanizing one) for this most grievous of wars fought upon American soil. Even adjusted for "indirect benefit" (accounting for the number of people in a given extended family who benefited materially from slavery) the percentage of slave ownership only goes as high as 33% or so, with the actual raw number looking more like 4.5%, so a rich and powerful minority got the South into a war. (Sounds like a familiar theme in warfare, doesn't it?) Smaller farms, those growing tobacco, indigo, and other crops aside from cotton, held a very small percentage of the total slave population. The numbers are available from the 1860 census, along with a lot of analysis and commentary.
The aftermath of the war saw an influx of people from the north who came south to "manage the transition" (read "line their own pockets") during Reconstruction. Freed slaves from the North were concentrated in the Southern states by a series of subtle and not-so-subtle pressures, and this influx of people came at a time of crushing poverty for many of the losing states. Impacts of this are still with us in terms of the economic and political landscape of the South, but that is finally changing as the political realities of the modern era have altered the landscape.
I remember exactly where I was on 11 September 2001. Many millions of Americans do. We have not forgotten what happened then, but we seem to have failed en masse to figure out WHY it happened. I'll leave the rest of this line of inquiry as an exercise to the readers here.
9/11 is entirely irrelevant it wasn't a siege or a breakdown social order. There is a portion of Americans that have a really good idea of this(civil war); all the vets who were made in the 20+ years of occupation in what was in effect Iraqi and afghan civil wars. Part of why a second American civil war is less ridiculous to many Americans is they see the parallels of the modern political dynamic and the rhetoric used to fuel the ANC/Taliban and Sunni/Shia divides.
Does the US populace in general understand the effect of war on a nation...nope... but that is true for the general populations of most nations and all of those which have not had a war fought in them in the last 40+ years.
"What kind of American are you?" - this sums up the tribalism going on in The United States.
Thank you
A24 usually puts out thought-provoking (and sometimes shocking) content. I also have enjoyed films by the writer/director.
This trailer however was not very good IMO. It also leads me to think that one or more sides are going to be caricatured. You can’t make progress towards peace with your enemies if all you do is demonize them. In that sense, I could see this movie doing more harm than good.
Here’s hoping I’m wrong.
They're making a "journalist" the protagonist, it's very clear whose gonna be the bad guys in this propaganda.
I don’t think it’ll have the usual caricatures of left/right based on the maps of the various belligerents
I see a Ryan Chapman video? I immediately click
Same here. Glad I’m not the only one.
Hm, There have been earlier depictions of 'modern' Civil War in the US. For example the series 'Jericho', which was imho essentially a very believable brutal sketch-in-broad-lines of the demise of the US.
Our institutions were designed to stabilize and grow the civil society. Since their capture, we have little to prevent destabilization and chaos where autocratic rule thrives. And our Republic is only as effective as the citizens desire and ability to police themselves, to restrain from acting out and satisfying impulses. It is not difficult to predict our future on our current course. History has born witness to the fall of mankind, nations and civilizations many times over. Our nation is not exempt from capitulation or collapse.
If you want something far more chilling, go look up the Gray State trailer, and realize that was made 11 years ago! And yet, for those who were paying close attention at that time, even 11 years ago it was not a particularly shocking proposition. A bit unsettling to see put to film, but conceptually you could have recognized the possibility of something like that before seeing it on screen.
If you want something really chilling, go read a book about the fall of Rome. Spend the next 800 pages thinking "huh... that sounds weirdly familiar."
Interesting trailer. A Teenager’s Guide to the Civil War: A History Book for teens is a great book for those who want to learn more from history.
I was stationed as a correspondent in Iran from 1998 - 2003. (One of the first, and only American journalists - and female - to do so, albeit for Italian TV). The biggest eye-opener: how an advanced society could become a theocracy. Already, I saw the mirror of a possible American future: marrying the Isaac Asimov anti-intellectualism quote and the newly formed Fox News Channel. Rush Limbaugh for the masses.
It’s coming
This is not just a movie. It's a prediction. We're heading this way. Also there have been some TV shows that are like this. Jericho for one.
Texas and California? Fighting on the same side?
@@nickmonks9563 Maybe not. The movie may show it as just 'everyone for themselves' which is the fractured state of the Union today, in many respects.
“Simon felt a perilous necessity to speak; but to speak in assembly was a terrible thing to him….
"Maybe," he said hesitantly, "maybe there is a beast."
“What I mean is . . . maybe it's only us."
-Lord of the Flies
Quiet Piggy.
Young father here. It wont matter what side your on,every one in America will lose. No resources,food, heating for winter, all businesses ,banks will go. People will lose their homes and parents will see their children starving,if the children still have parents. We as Americans need to look at what will be lost. Heath care gone,people on life saving medications,good luck and parents watching their sick child dying and no where to go. I'm focusing on children because I'm a new dad and it will affect them,if they make it,scared for the rest of there lives. Doom n gloom,too negative.??? unfortunately this is a very real possibility.
i have said at other venues that the united nations should do the job most thought it was meant to do….that being a league of nations with teeth. the strategy of keeping the peace through military alliances is essentially a business model (military-industrial) in the service of a business model (global capital).
Your comments really struck me, as the reactions to the film were shown; I dunno, the idea kinda felt like the atmosphere before a prize fight or something.
States barring Trump from the ballot seems to me a step in that direction
As does people refusing to hold him accountable for his crimes and refuse to elect him.
it's like saying that Democrats would rebel if Biden was taken off the ballot. Dems would just put in another candidate problem solved why wouldn't Republicans do the same? that statement makes no sense. no one is going to destroy the country only for one man.
When I heard Cali-Texas Alliance I died😂
It's by the guy that did anialation and machina witch were very real life setting.
As said in the movie "A few good men": Americans can not handle the truth.
The point of that movie was that only the dangerously arrogant believe that to be true .