I have a deep, deep respect for Professor Tom Devine, a man of considerable intellect and integrity. I feel the need to address one specific area discussed here however: I was born and grew up in Gravesend (Kent, south-east England), however I have lived in Scotland for almost ten years now. I understand why people believe British politics to be built around that specific part of the country, however there is an overwhelming misconception held by people towards Kent/Surrey/Sussex areas by the Scots, the Welsh, North of England and just about everywhere else. Kent, the so called "Garden of England", contains many towns such as my home town of Gravesend (which boarders south-east London), Chatham, Gillingham, Ramsgate, Dover to name but a few, that have suffered massively as a result of de-industrialization, Thatcherism, the Cameron/Osbourne austerity measures. Unemployment is as high as the northern towns frequently cited as victims of the Westminster inclination (Sunderland, Liverpool, Swansea, Glasgow to name a few significant examples); in the southeast of England towns I've mentioned, living conditions are equally as dyer, low life expectancies, poor literacy and/or numeracy levels, high crime rates, high suicide statistics, etc. etc. I always feel I need to explain this to people - the southeast of England has areas that are equally as deprived as the places that consistently grab headlines for poverty. One observation I have made that seems to alienate deprived areas in the southeast to other deprived areas is overwhelming political apathy; people in deprived areas in the southeast that would benefit from a left-wing, socialist leaning government typically do not bother voting. Poorer parts of the southeast have a much lower voting turnout than poorer parts of the rest of the country, and I've never really understood why that is. Possibly because there are so many Tory safe seats, and so it seems pointless, I don't know.
Robbie B, You have written a lot of hart felt sense. It must be said now. The British need to let the dust settle and then have a total rethink. Together we have a tremendous power. We just need to harness it. As you say, fairness and justice needs to prevail.
@@fayfairley6339 belt up and pay your 🇬🇧£3000 electricity bill and extra £4500 mortgage and 20% extra for food and nearly £2 for petrol soooo much BETTER TOGETHER 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🤣😂
Hi experts,people and everyone! The debate was fruitful That's because,it covered all aspects and possible implications in the event of Scottish independence. Thanks & regards.
it covered shetlands/orkeny islands independance? and scotland going into deficit or/and becoming a dependant on EU? strikingly none of the comments seem to reflect this :)
@@fuzzyspackage This denate is 9 years old - it was before the 2014 referendum, so is not related to the current events (even if some of the arguments still exist).
As one of an Orkney family, I stand amazed at the endless ability of the Highlanders to defeat themselves. Nowhere was it more evident than in 1745, when the Scottish Army got as far as Peterborough (the last stop before Kings Cross and the Caledonian Road then as now) before falling out over the seeds of victory and returning north, when had even one clan persisted the Capital was wipe open to then, with just the London Trained Bands in between. To say they made Dad's Army look professional is a truism: yet like Dad's Army, they prevailed, to Scotland's shame. Charles James Stewart ran, frit, from his own shadow. You may be better now, but History is persuasive.
Being in an independent Scotland won't stop you from being British. Britain isn't going to magically break up into a group of smaller islands just because Scotland gains freedom.
Think carefully folks. Imagine if the 50 states of the US all became separate countries ( some like California are as big and populated as one average European country,). What a mess this would make it would tremendously effect our strength, economic situation and military strength. And then there is the problem of getting anything done due to disagreements on how to do whatever . The United Kingdom is powerful and successful do you really want to undo that ???? Please, I'm American but we need you guys as allies to help this world to survive. Stay together and do the right thing.
I agree Donna, the Uk has such a rich tapestry of cultures within such a small set of unique countries, speaking with different traditions and accents and a long history, it would be a weaker and less effective in the world. The idea of a hard border with Scotland takes us back 2000 years to Roman times...and Scotland would be isolated with currency, defence, education and travel if Scotland were to join the EU (LOL, dream on!) I ask Scots I know and none want to be alone. They would be eaten up and spat out on the world stage, they realise that. So why does one woman want to persue this lunacy? Together we are stronger.
I really hope, for the pride, for the Scottish people, that they stay with us, in the United Kingdom Of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. From an Englishman
Together we are stronger. Our island is small enough without making it even smaller. In any case this way if anyone has a problem with Scotland, they have a problem with England too, and vice versa. What we have to do, is build a Britain we can all be happy and proud to belong to (stop immigration & begin a repatriation programme to get the numbers back down to a reasonable level, remove all the filth, constant bad influences & anti white propaganda from our media, rebuild our industries, etc.).
I have looked at these (and other) factors carefully and i fail to draw your conclusion of breaking the island - what does that even mean? Scotland is in an enviable position and at a far bigger advantage than most of the 58 other countries that have already chosen/been granted independence from Britain. The UK has one focus and that is on London and the southeast, this focus has brought us to become the 4th most unequal country in terms of wealth distribution. We need to control our own future.
In todays climate it is interesting to go back and listen to these debates with hindsight. Willie Rennie at 1:16:00 passionately making the case for much more financial powers to be devolved to Holyrood once a NO vote has been achieved.... and yet his party flatly refused those powers on offer in the Sewell convention just 2 years later.... Is it not surprising that the Lib Dems have since fallen to just 5 representatives out of 129 at Holyrood? Ruth Davidson at 1:22:00 dismissing Brexit as just a yes Campaign scare story..
It still amazes me, and indeed, the second question from the floor where the gentlemen stated the lack of an English Labour representative at the table would seem to be based on the shame that must be felt by the people who reprsent them and are against Scottish interests. Harold Wilson in 1974 hiding the McCrone Report for 30 years and dashing hopes of an independent country by a fear campaign when the report said the exact opposite and would have made Scotland the Kuwait of the North over the years which in fact it is now. Blair changing the border of the seas and stealing 6000 sq km of sea bed and thus oil that Scotland rightfully owns as a sovereign state. It does not matter which of the two main parties are in power Scotland always loses from Westminster,
@@howardroberts4859 Considering the amount 'stolen' from Scotland when oil was discovered is estimated at $350 Billion to date. Consider these facts: 1.The Continental Shelf Act 1964 and the Continental Shelf (Jurisdiction) Order 1968 defined the UK North Sea maritime area to the north of latitude 55 degrees north as being under the jurisdiction of Scots law meaning that 90% of the UK's oil resources was considered under Scottish jurisdiction. 2 The Scottish Government estimates that around £65 billion-£66 billion of revenues were raised in Scotland in 2019/20, equivalent to approximately £11,940-£12,060 per head. Scotland accounted for 9.2% of UK public spending, around 8% of UK revenues and 8.2% of UK population in 2019/20. Your comment is laughable as there are many more horrific 'Scottish' stories of plundering Scottish resources.
If you are correct, it cannot be that simple. The initial investment, The revenues are British. From the income many things need to be paid for that are over and above the Scottish budget. Power stations the total national dept, bailing out the Royal Bank of Scotland, Foreign aid, The defence budget, including the nuclear deterrent. Money paid to the EU. May be now you can add to the list. At this time the quickest way for Scotland to be independents is, give the vote to the English public. Throw Scotland out, Yes or No. But that would really be unfair to Millions of Scotts both in and out of Scotland. Brothers and Sisters are family right.
@@howardroberts4859 The issue is NOT Scotland v England but dishonest governments who supposedly provide legislation for all in fairness and equity. When we look at the entirety of the situation you must remember that for years and years the Scots were used and abused by English royalty and the mindset of many people are on the prolonged effects of 'English rule'. Separate any Hollywood fictionalised dramas such as Braveheart et al, there was more hatred against the feudal Scottish barons who, in may people's minds, sold the Scots out by signing the Act of Union 1701 and subsequent Acts. This historical fact is largely at the core of the modern psyche of 'independence' which is trying to regain the sovereignty lost so many years ago. It is exacerbated time and again when the 'British' parliament make decisions that make Scotland suffer and the South of the UK benefit from in many ways. It is a complex matter and indeed the Brexit debacle did not help as I do not believe that if Scotland ever did win total independence they should ever dream of moving from one master to another in the EU.Scotland seems to forget that any largesse shown to Scotland was entirely dependant on the entire UK membership and if independence was gained the EU would see Scotland as a drain on the EU and not as Britain was as a contributor. On the basis of the 4 principalities of Scotland, England, Wales and Ireland the shameful behaviour of successive British Governments has shown just how the 'vassal' states are treated with disdain and consistently lied to by the politicians in sanctimonious rants which they are merely puppets in delivering. No matter the various issues we knows that with two World Wars and others such as Crimea and Boer we had Brits from all nations fighting for Empire but indeed at what cost?
@@Scotoz27 like has been said before give the English a vote and its a shoe in...you get independence, we want rid of Scotland can't listen to Sturgeon anymore.
I think the most important point is independence I do not know any country who would be preferred to be ruled and governed over by another country. Scotland has oil fish whiskey and wind farms but aside all this which means they would be ok on their own. Look at Ireland Denmark Belgium. They will be allowed to stay in the EU and would therefore use the euro. Also the English have treated Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland as colonies with most of the money staying in England so all I can say is Saor Alba
What 'other country' is doing the ruling? England is the last significant colony of the British Empire and is the only Country in Europe & possibly the WORLD without it's own Parliament. Voiding the act of union & restoring the rights that are still 'in full force' (by Parliament's own reckoning whether they like it or not) would be better for everyone.
At least the Yes Campaign have a positive, progressive vision for Scotland as an independent country. All i've heard from the No side is negativity and scaremongering.
Scotland currently has 6 MEP's... now that influence compares to the 6 that Cyprus, Estonia, Luxembourg and Malta have. If we were to get our proper representation, then we would expect around 13 or 14 in line with Denmark, Finland and Slovakia. That is more than double our current influence. ...and don't try to kid me that we share all the same concerns with the rich bankers in London! London doesn't care about the Scottish Fishing industry for example.
Daniel Henley. Bannockburn. Stirling. Preston Pans. What about what about the march south through Newcastle to York to Derby and camped 100 mile north of Londonshire. Wha widnae fecht fur Charlie?
You're correct about me though. I do have a very simplistic outlook on this. For me it's very simple. You're either in or you're out. Don't like how London runs the show? Go your own way then. We're not stopping you. I don't see why this is such a hard concept to understand?
Well the issue is that you are stopping Scotland. Your sheer disregard of the Scots and their contribution to Britain is really telling of your education. If Scotland leaves, England, Wales & NI will be diminished internationally indefinitely. Look at yourself first before you mortify your own.
If Scotland was going to be independent it would have done it already how many more goes does it need. To be independent Scotland needs to be decisive and it ain't.
That`s all very well but what`s good for the South East isn`t always good for the rest of the country. So many decisions are made that impact on us where they needn`t have to. The only answer to saving the union is to go down the federal but London will never give up the power it has, Westminster is incapable of reform and change. Scotland was first promised its devolved parliament in the late 1800`s which says it all really. Westminster will always protect the power it retains.
I voted NO, because I do not want NS running Scotland into the Ground. I also voted to leave the EU, because at the mo, we are overrun with illegal immigrants, and Sturgeon wants to make this worse. She’s first Minister, and she can’t even grasp the massive drug problem in Glasgow! and around Scotland, and that’s HER job now!
Unfortunately, Westminster are so determined to keep hold of their Scottish gravy train that they have made it very difficult for the undecided Scots to feel confident in making the break.... campaign for them to let us go - we want you English to do that.
Don't take this offensively but part of the problem is with not taking into account population size. Over the last 300 years, Scots have had the capital to invest in themselves. This is why so many discoveries/inventions etc have come from a Scot So, quite rightly, the Scots see themselves as a modern, intellectual nation. Here's the problem: Scotland's population isn't even that of London. You're going to struggle to maintain your this status with a GDP smaller than that of a small EU country
If the Scots were really that determined to go it alone they would of had the vote years ago rather than pissing about. It all depends on what question is asked. If you ask the question 'do you want more powers to be devolved to Scotland' then the majority of Scots will say yes. If you ask the blunt question 'in or out', most Scots say 'in'. This is why Salmond tried to water down/give a second option for the referendum but Cameron said no It's simple, you're either in or you're out
this is so far the best discussion on the forthcoming vote we need more honest discussion along the same lines the only thing i would like to see is all politicians be fitted with a lie detector as have noticed a few wee half truths from willie & ruth (ie) British consulates throughout the world don't promote Scottish business the Scottish whisky industry have to pay for any assistance it asks for all other business in the UK don't pay "better together " aye right
There was a vote , Scotland stayed and judging by the turnout for Scotlands Queen there’s still a lot of love respect and loyalty for the union. Nothing will change for England Northern Ireland and wales but a lot will change for Scotland
There was a vote , Scotland stayed and judging by the turnout for Scotlands Queen there’s still a lot of love respect and loyalty for the union. Nothing will change for England Northern Ireland and wales but a lot will change for Scotland Oh yea and if you do leave .. take that fcukin Lorraine with you .
I don't want to live in a socialist country. I want less tax and government motivating people to work.I don't expect things from the government as I am independent. We shouldn't rely on the government. I want a strong economy and that can't be socialism so I want to say in UK. That is why vote NO please.
***** Scotland globally is recognized as a state not a country. The world only look at UK as a country. G8, G7, member of the EU and all the other things only count UK. There is nothing wrong with that as some states in USA has a bigger GDP than 10 Scotlands. That is why the EU clearly sad Scotland will need to reply as it will be a new country in their views as only UK is a member. Scotland will also lose membership of G8 and G7. The whole of UK might lose it as Russia already called us a tiny little island. So just think what they will say about UK after. UK is still respected and it still have some power to influence. No one will care about a tiny little country with only 5m people. When was the last time any one said Norway mattered in the world. They mean nothing to the global picture and they have double the amount of oil the whole of UK has. They have very little influence. Also Scotland has a much older popular so an independent Scotland would need over 1m immigrants to work to pay for the elderly. That is a 20% increase in population which is huge. I am just giving facts here so check it on Google.
Do you wish to build all the roads yourself you wish to travel ? I can understand the fear of the bogey "S" word, but realise that there is a benefit in a common good and common worth and there has been a growing gap between Scottish values in these areas ( and many areas of England/Wales/Ireland too ) and the dogma Westminster choses to follow. Do we want a weak economy like the USA ? If it is strong economy you wish then what of a China model ??
***** are you joking Scotland plan to join the EU so they will be come a state again. Give the EU another 50 year and it will becone the united state of Europe. You can see that is clearly happening little by little. The only difference is UK has much bigger influence in the EU than if it was Scotland alone. The EU just made an British guy the hwad of the financial sector for the whole EU. Do you think Scotland alone would ever get a powerful position in the EU like that.
Also, there is the notion that the UK is stronger together. this also is inane. As an English person, I know we can hold our own internationally, as we alone contribute a lot to global culture, economy and science. Independence/sovereignty would benefit Scotland, England and even Wales, though Northern ireland is more complex for obvious reasons.
Be careful what you wish for, Scotland. No money, defence, a hard Hadrians wall border, and look at the issues you have right now. Crime rates and drug use highest, and subsidised ( to billions) keeping Scotland liquid.
By all means controll your own future, but please don't expect the people of England to pay for it. The border between England and Scotland, should be the same as that between any other two sovereign countries . As for the 58 countries that have gain their independence , most , though, by no means all, are in the third world category. I shall stick by my argument, England is better off by itself.
It means, England is England. Sudan , Nigeria and Iraq, are pretty big too, there are other countries that are big , so what ? The age of Empires is over. Wether they are voluntary or forced. Small is in vogue at the moment, it gives you flexibility to move according to the circumstances you find yourself in at the time. ENGLAND will be smaller than Britain, so what? England can manage without 6 billion pounds a year from the North Sea, Scottish Whisky will be a lost, but not catastrophic so, personally, I perfer cider.
I'm Scottish, and any sane person would agree that Devolution has been a catastrophe for Scotland. Every civic and public institution in Scotland has descended into rapid and terminal decline. The only future Referendum should be to abolish the abject and irrefutable failure that is Holyrood.
"Old England is finished no matter what the result in Scotland" You're just proving my point in that this is all about resentment over England rather than real independence. England or London shouldn't concern you as a pro Independent Scotsman. You can wish bad on us all you want. Until you get your priorities right you will always be under the thumb of the English...
Under the subsidised thumb. At this time. The best and quickest way for Scotland to be independent. Is let the English public vote. Do we throw them out, YES or NO. Job dun.
lol.. When did I mention that? The Act of Union per parliamentary sovereignty can always be repealed. And Scots law is still to some extent subject to Westminster. Whilst you can make your own laws, this applies in areas under the Scotland Act, and not in defence or foreign affairs. Your point is makes little sense, since sovereignty is never permanent. It can end as all know via secession, ceding, invasion or union with another party.
Let's put it another way... I am willing to bet my house that I will be long gone before Scotland decides to be independent from the UK. This is obvious to even a child :)
The fact that hey marginalised Margo tells you everything you need to know about Nicola and her bent little regime. Margo had more integrity in her little finger than Sturgeon has in her entire body.
newmanwuk has a point. You're already going to share a currency, and the majority of UK forces will be in a "union" as well as a currency union. Scotland will not have as much desired power as it wants.
So the EU will "punish" the UK for leaving? With a globalised world, it makes little sense to exclude any country. Who says big French or German firms won't lobby the EU, given the size of the UK market? the Westminster government could always negotiate a trade agreement as part of the terms of leaving.
If Salmond was really that confident of a 'yes' result then the opinion of Westminster or England as a whole wouldn't matter. All he'd have to do is hold the referendum and that would be that but instead, he has tried to water down the referendum (just in case it goes against him which he suspects it will do). Cameron said no to this watering down of the vote (I think there was a 2nd clause which Scots could vote on which was cleverly worded) and that it must be a simple 'in or out' vote.
Looking back of this and hearing "the EU question" is both laughable and sad. What a pack of lies we were sold in 2014 by the better together campaign.
The biggest single issue is indeed the 'Better Together' campaign which seems to be saying that the last 300 years have been milk and honey under the relative governments from Whigs and Tories to the current tranche of what can only best be described as chancers. It is incomprehensible to see what relationship having a Union all that time has improved the lot of the Scottish people more so if we hypothesize the 'what could have been' in the event we had gained independence many years ago. Subsequent governments have ultimately enabling Acts which have been detrimental to Scotland specifically most recently the Poll Tax in Scotland first the decimation of Scottish industries in steel and coal and ridiculous taxes such as the Bedroom Tax etc.. Staying in the Union would guarantee more of the same and with no social justice and equity as would likely more prevalent in Scotland especially as we have a one in a million chance to have a bloodless revolution and gain independence politically, socially, philosophically and economically. I will post elements of each of these points to show the efficacy and value of an independent Scotland
I thought Tom put it eloquently that many Scots have felt particular grief at the union over these 300 years. I didn't hear milk and honey, although there have been benefits for the union, especially in overseas trade. The great tobacco and sugar barons used the power of the British naval fleet to further their own capitalistic ends. We must not tell untruths.
The Union Jack is a combination of Scotland & England. Hence, the Queen Mother is a Scottish...'God Save The King!' for King George VI. 'Once Upon A Time', a brown dog named Scot fell into a hole rescued by two English children from reading 'my textbook'.
yes they should get independence, and I am English. The scots say they built the Empire lol.. bollocks. This is why England pre-1707 had extensive colonial interests overseas, and why it was called the Scots-Dutch Wars, or the Scottish East Indian Company, or the Scottish colony at Jamestown, or the Scottish African Company lol.. Even now, the reason why the UK is still a major power is due to England. If anything all four countries should be independent/sovereign.
As an Englishman buddy born in London you must remember it was a Scottish King ie James 6th that took over England in 1603 so don't say our Northern Neighbours are imbeciles in England we appreciate what the Scots have contributed and they did form the Union🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
an asset as in crude oil? So natural resources (which England in itself hardly lacks) are required for a country to be wealthy? Wasn't that reasoning discredited by economists long ago?
Many Scots say this, though they refer to the settlement of Australia and Canada. Even still, they neglect to mention that the eventual basis of the USA was English, and it was the English who established trade in India, Africa the Caribbean and the Far East This had to be a major reason why the Scots agreed to Union in the first place.
Africa had its methods of trade before the invasion and illegal pillaging of the English. I think you are incredibly delusional if you assume the English brought any good or had any altruistic reason for invading a continent far from them
Sargasso sea massive No it wasn't, the failed Darien scheme & trade wars with england, left Scotland almost bankrupt. The deal for the union involved reimbursing the 'rich' who had lost out financially. Bought and sold for english gold was the phrase penned by Rabbi Burns. Scots rioted across the country after the vote was cast.
Its not so much what you got, its what you do with it. We have an opportunity to change our contribution to world affairs. I think Scotland would do many things differently
I am bigger than I once was, but can't think of anything that makes my fat belly better for me, except for perhaps resting pints on.The most equal and happy countries in the world are small with the top ones being similar sized to Scotland.I did once think that we(UK) could make that world u talk of, but the S/E England determines the policies for us all and within the union always will. Its a simple numbers game.Btw, a recent report puts the public's perception on immigration way out of reality
There is a major factor mixing here Religion , the Jacobite’s were catholic, the people of Glasgow and the lowland west were not !! They were British and proud
A yes vote is also a vote to remain part of the EU so there will be no real change also if you enter a monetary policy with us or the EU then you may as well hand over Scotland on a silver plater. There is more to this then 'vote yes and everything will be fine and dandy'. If the EU does not accept you and we do not do a monetary policy with you then you will have your own currency which will be worth nothing.
Why do you think The SNP are a big NO to Nuke's? A/ They (Westminster) will have to sub contract it all to us (Scotland) not out of Economics but solely down to 'Geography'. Our unique Deep Water naval bases can not be rebuilt in P-mouth or any where else. Only Scotland's topography makes it possible to have these deep water ports. This 'fact' is huge & it will all come down to Faslane, C-port & even Rosyth. With Independence we can rent out these facilities, in fact we will have a monopoly for a change. I want it, but doubt we will get a fair crack at Independance anyway. AMERICA won't allow it, & trust me, "Rigging Elections" is the USA's bread & butter. History & very recent current affairs tells us that the USA, with the UK acting the whipping boy n Educator part, (which is so embarrassing) educate despots, rig elections in their favour & put them into power. Then we can be paid handsomely by poverty ridden but mineral rich 3rd world countries. Be it East/West Ghaddafi or Idi Amen, in fact pick any 1 of Africa's 50 add countries blindfolded with a pin, & where there aint a civil wars going on, a tyranical despot dictators are creating wealth for us & them, also but they keep it to themselves while their own suffer in real poverty. Savages, educated by the UK establishment! After their Oxbridge years their put to power, an absolute power, back to their native lands. Where no mercy is shown to it's occupants. Dictators rule by fear!! Charles Taylor & Rab Mugabbi are another pair that have just sprang to mind. Independence ffs!! Our own General Elections are decided by 1 man who aint even a politician. Rupert Murdoch.decides. He has done since the multi billionaire put Thatcher in. How did he do this? A/ Whatever party the editor of "The Sun" is told to back always wins the UK's own G-Elections. Thats the way things are the fcuking SUN tells it's readers what to vote & guess what they do everytime without fail. Best of it is, it's not even debatable. Both Tories & New Labour alike admit that the polls do go the way the Sun decides they go....... Im all for an Independent Scotland, but unless the US of A want it too. It aint going to happen. Please nobody bother replying if it's going 2B a torrent of abuse. Sun readers need not apply .............................¬¬
Germany is as its had the largest economy in the sphere for decades. Though you presume the EU would not be willing to conduct trade terms with the UK, and that the UK remainder without Scotland could not negotiate that or revisions with the EU. I think as said prior that the EU wouldn't "punish" us, as we would still be a large market for their goods, and that in the globalised world excluding large markets is counter-productive.
Setting history aside which I aways find bizarre when it’s used to make decision in politics and in reversible decision. This world doesn’t need anymore independent countries, we need to reduce and bring humanity together and get a leader who pushes this and provides equal funds/ decision making to each part of the country. I was annoyed about leaving the EU to only be the floating island. We are tiny we don’t need another separation on a small island/s. Everyone suffered at some point sulking about the past is not the way forward. The UK is one big family, with politics from each country making the great country pushing their own power hungry agendas and playing on unfortunately the weak and easily influenced to attempt to get independence. Just because you leave doesn’t mean anything better will happen, likely suffering hugely for many years/ decades before any potential benefit is seen. Get over it and just embrace being British/ Scottish and part of a union family the UK.
aye very good, try telling that misty eyed utopian hippy nonsense to the Ukrainians,.. any one that thinks beyond sound bites and propaganda knows the "union family" is a myth, Britishness is a device that the English establishment used to dominate and assimilate nations world wide in pursuit of stolen resources...the Irish, Welsh and Scots are\were the last dominions of an English empire that serves an undemocratic system mired in political and economic corruption....All the UK nations including England need nothing short of revolution and the end of centralised Westminster misrule in-order to achieve proper democratic representation of the all countries that make up this Island...this issue isn't going away, the rumble of working class discontent is simmering in all the nations of this Island.
Ironic that you would write a comment about " weak and easily influenced " people whilst coming across as weak and easily influenced yourself. Away with your utter drivel.
Rennie's hypocrisy: In one breath he talks of Scotland not being able to afford the welfare bill, and in the next talks of Scotland being "well capable" of being a successful, prosperous independent country! We must take caution with politicians reference to the "UK"... There are two UKs... the Union of Crowns (the UK), and the Union of Parliaments (the UK of GB)... but both may be referred to as the "UK"! Independence means to end the Union of Parliaments (UK of GB). NOT the Union of Crowns
I love the Scottish god bless keep the faith from Newcastle 🏴 🏴 Love you to bits 👍
I have a deep, deep respect for Professor Tom Devine, a man of considerable intellect and integrity. I feel the need to address one specific area discussed here however: I was born and grew up in Gravesend (Kent, south-east England), however I have lived in Scotland for almost ten years now. I understand why people believe British politics to be built around that specific part of the country, however there is an overwhelming misconception held by people towards Kent/Surrey/Sussex areas by the Scots, the Welsh, North of England and just about everywhere else. Kent, the so called "Garden of England", contains many towns such as my home town of Gravesend (which boarders south-east London), Chatham, Gillingham, Ramsgate, Dover to name but a few, that have suffered massively as a result of de-industrialization, Thatcherism, the Cameron/Osbourne austerity measures. Unemployment is as high as the northern towns frequently cited as victims of the Westminster inclination (Sunderland, Liverpool, Swansea, Glasgow to name a few significant examples); in the southeast of England towns I've mentioned, living conditions are equally as dyer, low life expectancies, poor literacy and/or numeracy levels, high crime rates, high suicide statistics, etc. etc. I always feel I need to explain this to people - the southeast of England has areas that are equally as deprived as the places that consistently grab headlines for poverty. One observation I have made that seems to alienate deprived areas in the southeast to other deprived areas is overwhelming political apathy; people in deprived areas in the southeast that would benefit from a left-wing, socialist leaning government typically do not bother voting. Poorer parts of the southeast have a much lower voting turnout than poorer parts of the rest of the country, and I've never really understood why that is. Possibly because there are so many Tory safe seats, and so it seems pointless, I don't know.
Robbie B, You have written a lot of hart felt sense. It must be said now. The British need to let the dust settle and then have a total rethink. Together we have a tremendous power. We just need to harness it. As you say, fairness and justice needs to prevail.
Howard Roberts the Scottish and the Welsh have no power as they are treated as colonies not as equals so Saor Alba
It doesn't seem to exist anymore in england going by recent events.
Fairness and justice are rare things in Post-Brexit Britain.
As an English man I wish Scotland all the best if they want to leave. And I wish England my country a bright future
Not all Scots are Nationalists I can think of nothing worse than Nicola Sturgeon running the country I live in.
@@fayfairley6339
Did I say they were? All I am sayings us I don't mind, I want England my country to start standing up for us
Cheers man. The emotional bond is all that's left.
well we won't be paying a £3000 electricity bill or an extra £4500 on the mortgage that's for sure 🏴
@@fayfairley6339 belt up and pay your 🇬🇧£3000 electricity bill and extra £4500 mortgage and 20% extra for food and nearly £2 for petrol soooo much BETTER TOGETHER 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🤣😂
Hi experts,people and everyone! The debate was fruitful That's because,it covered all aspects and possible implications in the event of Scottish independence.
Thanks & regards.
it covered shetlands/orkeny islands independance? and scotland going into deficit or/and becoming a dependant on EU? strikingly none of the comments seem to reflect this :)
@@fuzzyspackage This denate is 9 years old - it was before the 2014 referendum, so is not related to the current events (even if some of the arguments still exist).
we are now 2022. History is just that. Live for the day
As one of an Orkney family, I stand amazed at the endless ability of the Highlanders to defeat themselves. Nowhere was it more evident than in 1745, when the Scottish Army got as far as Peterborough (the last stop before Kings Cross and the Caledonian Road then as now) before falling out over the seeds of victory and returning north, when had even one clan persisted the Capital was wipe open to then, with just the London Trained Bands in between. To say they made Dad's Army look professional is a truism: yet like Dad's Army, they prevailed, to Scotland's shame. Charles James Stewart ran, frit, from his own shadow.
You may be better now, but History is persuasive.
I recommend you read up about the actual history of the Jacobite uprisings instead of what you've been told by the BBC and Hollywood.
yeah but you need to get to london not peterborough and 1745 is the best you can come up with, 300 years of British union Changed the Whole world!!
@@linky8899 Except Scotland. It's time England was asked if we want to keep them, given it's long been a financial drain.
It was a civil war; not a rebellion. Ergo: NOT a Scottish army. More Scots fought as part of the Hanoverian army, than existed in the Jacobite army.
Being in an independent Scotland won't stop you from being British. Britain isn't going to magically break up into a group of smaller islands just because Scotland gains freedom.
Think carefully folks. Imagine if the 50 states of the US all became separate countries ( some like California are as big and populated as one average European country,). What a mess this would make it would tremendously effect our strength, economic situation and military strength. And then there is the problem of getting anything done due to disagreements on how to do whatever . The United Kingdom is powerful and successful do you really want to undo that ???? Please, I'm American but we need you guys as allies to help this world to survive. Stay together and do the right thing.
LOL
Yank moment.
People aren't going to base their decisions on your convenience
the English and Americans doing the right thing hahahahahaha that's not even funny you make Hitler look like an Angel
@@meatpuppet5036 wow, that was rude. They have a valid point, the uk without Scotland would be unthinkable, and would be a mess.
I agree Donna, the Uk has such a rich tapestry of cultures within such a small set of unique countries, speaking with different traditions and accents and a long history, it would be a weaker and less effective in the world.
The idea of a hard border with Scotland takes us back 2000 years to Roman times...and Scotland would be isolated with currency, defence, education and travel if Scotland were to join the EU (LOL, dream on!)
I ask Scots I know and none want to be alone. They would be eaten up and spat out on the world stage, they realise that. So why does one woman want to persue this lunacy? Together we are stronger.
@@johnkeedwell5549 Scotland without the uk would be fantastic , stop being a joseth fritzell .
Why would Scotland want independence from Britain if they're already gonna surrender their sovereignty to the EU?
This was a very interesting watch, 10 years on.
tom thanks for the history lesson...top guy
Let them go....
Be happy .
Be healthy
Scots .
What a lovely tie the man at the beginning wore,credit where it's due I say
I really hope, for the pride, for the Scottish people, that they stay with us, in the United Kingdom Of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. From an Englishman
Brexit and the brexiters are causing the gradual break up of the UK. BREXIT is the catalyst.. Scotland and Northern Ireland voted remain in the EU.
Are you bonkers, Scots , sod off
@@philcooper279 I think you'll soon get your wish!
@@andrewwotherspoona5722 his wish maybe, but the normal ordinary people no way
British and proud !!
Ben Taylor British isles is a geographical description that is all so you are proud to be from the British isles ?
Your nationality is an accident of birth not an achievement
Scotland deserve independence.
British and proud !!!!!!
Together we are stronger. Our island is small enough without making it even smaller. In any case this way if anyone has a problem with Scotland, they have a problem with England too, and vice versa.
What we have to do, is build a Britain we can all be happy and proud to belong to (stop immigration & begin a repatriation programme to get the numbers back down to a reasonable level, remove all the filth, constant bad influences & anti white propaganda from our media, rebuild our industries, etc.).
I have looked at these (and other) factors carefully and i fail to draw your conclusion of breaking the island - what does that even mean? Scotland is in an enviable position and at a far bigger advantage than most of the 58 other countries that have already chosen/been granted independence from Britain. The UK has one focus and that is on London and the southeast, this focus has brought us to become the 4th most unequal country in terms of wealth distribution. We need to control our own future.
Vovovovovovovo0
In todays climate it is interesting to go back and listen to these debates with hindsight. Willie Rennie at 1:16:00 passionately making the case for much more financial powers to be devolved to Holyrood once a NO vote has been achieved.... and yet his party flatly refused those powers on offer in the Sewell convention just 2 years later.... Is it not surprising that the Lib Dems have since fallen to just 5 representatives out of 129 at Holyrood? Ruth Davidson at 1:22:00 dismissing Brexit as just a yes Campaign scare story..
oh yes we are so united cha cha cha cha cha cha cha cha cha .
I'm not from 1707, I don't want to live under a 300 year old twisted union.
Thank you for your very civilised debate!
It still amazes me, and indeed, the second question from the floor where the gentlemen stated the lack of an English Labour representative at the table would seem to be based on the shame that must be felt by the people who reprsent them and are against Scottish interests. Harold Wilson in 1974 hiding the McCrone Report for 30 years and dashing hopes of an independent country by a fear campaign when the report said the exact opposite and would have made Scotland the Kuwait of the North over the years which in fact it is now. Blair changing the border of the seas and stealing 6000 sq km of sea bed and thus oil that Scotland rightfully owns as a sovereign state. It does not matter which of the two main parties are in power Scotland always loses from Westminster,
Scotland is subsidised.
@@howardroberts4859 Considering the amount 'stolen' from Scotland when oil was discovered is estimated at $350 Billion to date. Consider these facts:
1.The Continental Shelf Act 1964 and the Continental Shelf (Jurisdiction) Order 1968 defined the UK North Sea maritime area to the north of latitude 55 degrees north as being under the jurisdiction of Scots law meaning that 90% of the UK's oil resources was considered under Scottish jurisdiction.
2 The Scottish Government estimates that around £65 billion-£66 billion of revenues were raised in Scotland in 2019/20, equivalent to approximately £11,940-£12,060 per head. Scotland accounted for 9.2% of UK public spending, around 8% of UK revenues and 8.2% of UK population in 2019/20.
Your comment is laughable as there are many more horrific 'Scottish' stories of plundering Scottish resources.
If you are correct, it cannot be that simple. The initial investment, The revenues are British. From the income many things need to be paid for that are over and above the Scottish budget. Power stations the total national dept, bailing out the Royal Bank of Scotland, Foreign aid, The defence budget, including the nuclear deterrent. Money paid to the EU. May be now you can add to the list. At this time the quickest way for Scotland to be independents is, give the vote to the English public. Throw Scotland out, Yes or No. But that would really be unfair to Millions of Scotts both in and out of Scotland. Brothers and Sisters are family right.
@@howardroberts4859 The issue is NOT Scotland v England but dishonest governments who supposedly provide legislation for all in fairness and equity. When we look at the entirety of the situation you must remember that for years and years the Scots were used and abused by English royalty and the mindset of many people are on the prolonged effects of 'English rule'. Separate any Hollywood fictionalised dramas such as Braveheart et al, there was more hatred against the feudal Scottish barons who, in may people's minds, sold the Scots out by signing the Act of Union 1701 and subsequent Acts. This historical fact is largely at the core of the modern psyche of 'independence' which is trying to regain the sovereignty lost so many years ago. It is exacerbated time and again when the 'British' parliament make decisions that make Scotland suffer and the South of the UK benefit from in many ways.
It is a complex matter and indeed the Brexit debacle did not help as I do not believe that if Scotland ever did win total independence they should ever dream of moving from one master to another in the EU.Scotland seems to forget that any largesse shown to Scotland was entirely dependant on the entire UK membership and if independence was gained the EU would see Scotland as a drain on the EU and not as Britain was as a contributor. On the basis of the 4 principalities of Scotland, England, Wales and Ireland the shameful behaviour of successive British Governments has shown just how the 'vassal' states are treated with disdain and consistently lied to by the politicians in sanctimonious rants which they are merely puppets in delivering. No matter the various issues we knows that with two World Wars and others such as Crimea and Boer we had Brits from all nations fighting for Empire but indeed at what cost?
@@Scotoz27 like has been said before give the English a vote and its a shoe in...you get independence, we want rid of Scotland can't listen to Sturgeon anymore.
I think the most important point is independence I do not know any country who would be preferred to be ruled and governed over by another country. Scotland has oil fish whiskey and wind farms but aside all this which means they would be ok on their own. Look at Ireland Denmark Belgium. They will be allowed to stay in the EU and would therefore use the euro.
Also the English have treated Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland as colonies with most of the money staying in England so all I can say is Saor Alba
What 'other country' is doing the ruling? England is the last significant colony of the British Empire and is the only Country in Europe & possibly the WORLD without it's own Parliament.
Voiding the act of union & restoring the rights that are still 'in full force' (by Parliament's own reckoning whether they like it or not) would be better for everyone.
As an English man I agree, in fact I encourage, go and leave us alone!! Good riddance.
At least the Yes Campaign have a positive, progressive vision for Scotland as an independent country. All i've heard from the No side is negativity and scaremongering.
Good debate and opening lecture by Tom Devine who makes excellent points throughout, Margo McDonald is acerbic as always.
Yes💯 Scotland Independence🏴🏴🏴
I FUCKING LOVE TOM DEVINE, A TRUE KING
History reflects and teaches us.
For a thousand years it's shown us why we were independent and should be again through social equality.
YES 2014
Scotland currently has 6 MEP's... now that influence compares to the 6 that Cyprus, Estonia, Luxembourg and Malta have. If we were to get our proper representation, then we would expect around 13 or 14 in line with Denmark, Finland and Slovakia. That is more than double our current influence. ...and don't try to kid me that we share all the same concerns with the rich bankers in London! London doesn't care about the Scottish Fishing industry for example.
Neither does sturgeon.
The present insignia of 'Standard Charter' has the letter 'S'...Scotland?
Daniel Henley.
Bannockburn. Stirling. Preston Pans. What about what about the march south through Newcastle to York to Derby and camped 100 mile north of Londonshire.
Wha widnae fecht fur Charlie?
Newsnetscotland for Your News not covered by mainstream media
You're correct about me though. I do have a very simplistic outlook on this. For me it's very simple.
You're either in or you're out. Don't like how London runs the show? Go your own way then. We're not stopping you. I don't see why this is such a hard concept to understand?
Well the issue is that you are stopping Scotland. Your sheer disregard of the Scots and their contribution to Britain is really telling of your education. If Scotland leaves, England, Wales & NI will be diminished internationally indefinitely. Look at yourself first before you mortify your own.
Is this what " better together " looks like ?
Up to them if they want to leave as long as they look before they leap
If Scotland was going to be independent it would have done it already how many more goes does it need. To be independent Scotland needs to be decisive and it ain't.
That`s all very well but what`s good for the South East isn`t always good for the rest of the country. So many decisions are made that impact on us where they needn`t have to. The only answer to saving the union is to go down the federal but London will never give up the power it has, Westminster is incapable of reform and change. Scotland was first promised its devolved parliament in the late 1800`s which says it all really. Westminster will always protect the power it retains.
I voted NO, because I do not want NS running Scotland into the Ground. I also voted to leave the EU, because at the mo, we are overrun with illegal immigrants, and Sturgeon wants to make this worse. She’s first Minister, and she can’t even grasp the massive drug problem in Glasgow! and around Scotland, and that’s HER job now!
Unfortunately, Westminster are so determined to keep hold of their Scottish gravy train that they have made it very difficult for the undecided Scots to feel confident in making the break.... campaign for them to let us go - we want you English to do that.
English constitution party now up and running 🏃♀️
Tell that to David Cameron with respect to his in-out referendum on membership of the European Union.
margo is not to be messed with bless you margo
'Wings over Scotland', 'Bella Caledonia'... and 'BBC Scotlandshire' too :o)
Don't take this offensively but part of the problem is with not taking into account population size. Over the last 300 years, Scots have had the capital to invest in themselves. This is why so many discoveries/inventions etc have come from a Scot
So, quite rightly, the Scots see themselves as a modern, intellectual nation. Here's the problem:
Scotland's population isn't even that of London. You're going to struggle to maintain your this status with a GDP smaller than that of a small EU country
Not saying it can't be done ofc but you really have to think about all this and the SNP really needs to install confidence into the Scottish people
They have won the last 16 elections
If the Scots were really that determined to go it alone they would of had the vote years ago rather than pissing about. It all depends on what question is asked.
If you ask the question 'do you want more powers to be devolved to Scotland' then the majority of Scots will say yes. If you ask the blunt question 'in or out', most Scots say 'in'.
This is why Salmond tried to water down/give a second option for the referendum but Cameron said no
It's simple, you're either in or you're out
Well without salmond and with a johhnson and reese moggg surely we'll be free
@@The_Prole haha not with wee Jimmy
"Because we want to,Because we want to!" Copyright Billie Piper circa 1996
this is so far the best discussion on the forthcoming vote we need more honest discussion along the same lines the only thing i would like to see is all politicians be fitted with a lie detector as have noticed a few wee half truths from willie & ruth (ie) British consulates throughout the world don't promote Scottish business the Scottish whisky industry have to pay for any assistance it asks for all other business in the UK don't pay "better together " aye right
There was a vote , Scotland stayed and judging by the turnout for Scotlands Queen there’s still a lot of love respect and loyalty for the union. Nothing will change for England Northern Ireland and wales but a lot will change for Scotland
There was a vote , Scotland stayed and judging by the turnout for Scotlands Queen there’s still a lot of love respect and loyalty for the union. Nothing will change for England Northern Ireland and wales but a lot will change for Scotland
Oh yea and if you do leave .. take that fcukin Lorraine with you .
I don't want to live in a socialist country. I want less tax and government motivating people to work.I don't expect things from the government as I am independent. We shouldn't rely on the government. I want a strong economy and that can't be socialism so I want to say in UK. That is why vote NO please.
***** Scotland globally is recognized as a state not a country. The world only look at UK as a country. G8, G7, member of the EU and all the other things only count UK. There is nothing wrong with that as some states in USA has a bigger GDP than 10 Scotlands. That is why the EU clearly sad Scotland will need to reply as it will be a new country in their views as only UK is a member. Scotland will also lose membership of G8 and G7. The whole of UK might lose it as Russia already called us a tiny little island. So just think what they will say about UK after. UK is still respected and it still have some power to influence. No one will care about a tiny little country with only 5m people. When was the last time any one said Norway mattered in the world. They mean nothing to the global picture and they have double the amount of oil the whole of UK has. They have very little influence. Also Scotland has a much older popular so an independent Scotland would need over 1m immigrants to work to pay for the elderly. That is a 20% increase in population which is huge. I am just giving facts here so check it on Google.
Do you wish to build all the roads yourself you wish to travel ? I can understand the fear of the bogey "S" word, but realise that there is a benefit in a common good and common worth and there has been a growing gap between Scottish values in these areas ( and many areas of England/Wales/Ireland too ) and the dogma Westminster choses to follow. Do we want a weak economy like the USA ? If it is strong economy you wish then what of a China model ??
***** are you joking Scotland plan to join the EU so they will be come a state again. Give the EU another 50 year and it will becone the united state of Europe. You can see that is clearly happening little by little. The only difference is UK has much bigger influence in the EU than if it was Scotland alone. The EU just made an British guy the hwad of the financial sector for the whole EU. Do you think Scotland alone would ever get a powerful position in the EU like that.
Also, there is the notion that the UK is stronger together. this also is inane. As an English person, I know we can hold our own internationally, as we alone contribute a lot to global culture, economy and science. Independence/sovereignty would benefit Scotland, England and even Wales, though Northern ireland is more complex for obvious reasons.
Independence really can't come soon enough!
Saor Alba
Be careful what you wish for, Scotland. No money, defence, a hard Hadrians wall border, and look at the issues you have right now. Crime rates and drug use highest, and subsidised ( to billions) keeping Scotland liquid.
How can we get equal news on all the event if it's Pro-yes? I'm going back to itv news.
The direction England is going, then we are likely looking at zero EU influence... cos we winnae be in it!
By all means controll your own future, but please don't expect the people of England to pay for it. The border between England and Scotland, should be the same as that between any other two sovereign countries . As for the 58 countries that have gain their independence , most , though, by no means all, are in the third world category. I shall stick by my argument, England is better off by itself.
It means, England is England. Sudan , Nigeria and Iraq, are pretty big too, there are other countries that are big , so what ? The age of Empires is over. Wether they are voluntary or forced. Small is in vogue at the moment, it gives you flexibility to move according to the circumstances you find yourself in at the time. ENGLAND will be smaller than Britain, so what? England can manage without 6 billion pounds a year from the North Sea, Scottish Whisky will be a lost, but not catastrophic so, personally, I perfer cider.
1:10:42 - Moira should have been named Cassandra. It was three big ifs, and all of them came true.
Better Together
From my point of view as an English man we would be a lot better off without Scotland in the union
Very few English give a toss. ask England to vote, you would be out by the end of the month !
@D A CUT Do it then.
I'm Scottish, and any sane person would agree that Devolution has been a catastrophe for Scotland. Every civic and public institution in Scotland has descended into rapid and terminal decline. The only future Referendum should be to abolish the abject and irrefutable failure that is Holyrood.
"Old England is finished no matter what the result in Scotland"
You're just proving my point in that this is all about resentment over England rather than real independence. England or London shouldn't concern you as a pro Independent Scotsman. You can wish bad on us all you want. Until you get your priorities right you will always be under the thumb of the English...
Under the subsidised thumb. At this time. The best and quickest way for Scotland to be independent. Is let the English public vote. Do we throw them out, YES or NO. Job dun.
lol.. When did I mention that?
The Act of Union per parliamentary sovereignty can always be repealed. And Scots law is still to some extent subject to Westminster. Whilst you can make your own laws, this applies in areas under the Scotland Act, and not in defence or foreign affairs.
Your point is makes little sense, since sovereignty is never permanent. It can end as all know via secession, ceding, invasion or union with another party.
good on you Blair
Margo was right about the pound
Sever the Union at your cost.
The guy at 59 minutes in sounds like he's got a late night jazz show on the radio.
Give it time. The EU started as a trading block, now it has a legislature, central bank and foreign minister/policy. Nawamsayin?
Let's put it another way...
I am willing to bet my house that I will be long gone before Scotland decides to be independent from the UK. This is obvious to even a child :)
you still here buddy?
The fact that hey marginalised Margo tells you everything you need to know about Nicola and her bent little regime. Margo had more integrity in her little finger than Sturgeon has in her entire body.
newmanwuk has a point. You're already going to share a currency, and the majority of UK forces will be in a "union" as well as a currency union. Scotland will not have as much desired power as it wants.
So the EU will "punish" the UK for leaving? With a globalised world, it makes little sense to exclude any country. Who says big French or German firms won't lobby the EU, given the size of the UK market? the Westminster government could always negotiate a trade agreement as part of the terms of leaving.
As the UK government did to northern England, and? Which government doesn't improve its country's infrastructure?
Ah the Hannover's who changed there name to WINDSOR, im voting YES cos we aint better together
@The505Guys A lot of incest going on, no doubt 😀👍
If Salmond was really that confident of a 'yes' result then the opinion of Westminster or England as a whole wouldn't matter. All he'd have to do is hold the referendum and that would be that but instead, he has tried to water down the referendum (just in case it goes against him which he suspects it will do).
Cameron said no to this watering down of the vote (I think there was a 2nd clause which Scots could vote on which was cleverly worded) and that it must be a simple 'in or out' vote.
Looking back of this and hearing "the EU question" is both laughable and sad. What a pack of lies we were sold in 2014 by the better together campaign.
A chance to redeem yourselves is on the horizon.
The biggest single issue is indeed the 'Better Together' campaign which seems to be saying that the last 300 years have been milk and honey under the relative governments from Whigs and Tories to the current tranche of what can only best be described as chancers. It is incomprehensible to see what relationship having a Union all that time has improved the lot of the Scottish people more so if we hypothesize the 'what could have been' in the event we had gained independence many years ago.
Subsequent governments have ultimately enabling Acts which have been detrimental to Scotland specifically most recently the Poll Tax in Scotland first the decimation of Scottish industries in steel and coal and ridiculous taxes such as the Bedroom Tax etc.. Staying in the Union would guarantee more of the same and with no social justice and equity as would likely more prevalent in Scotland especially as we have a one in a million chance to have a bloodless revolution and gain independence politically, socially, philosophically and economically. I will post elements of each of these points to show the efficacy and value of an independent Scotland
I thought Tom put it eloquently that many Scots have felt particular grief at the union over these 300 years. I didn't hear milk and honey, although there have been benefits for the union, especially in overseas trade. The great tobacco and sugar barons used the power of the British naval fleet to further their own capitalistic ends. We must not tell untruths.
The Union Jack is a combination of Scotland & England. Hence, the Queen Mother is a Scottish...'God Save The King!' for King George VI. 'Once Upon A Time', a brown dog named Scot fell into a hole rescued by two English children from reading 'my textbook'.
Cheers for the heads up, didn't know of these sites
The lecture was totally biased towards leave, that presentation could have been given by the the first minister of the SNP.......
yes they should get independence, and I am English.
The scots say they built the Empire lol.. bollocks. This is why England pre-1707 had extensive colonial interests overseas, and why it was called the Scots-Dutch Wars, or the Scottish East Indian Company, or the Scottish colony at Jamestown, or the Scottish African Company lol.. Even now, the reason why the UK is still a major power is due to England.
If anything all four countries should be independent/sovereign.
As an Englishman buddy born in London you must remember it was a Scottish King ie James 6th that took over England in 1603 so don't say our Northern Neighbours are imbeciles in England we appreciate what the Scots have contributed and they did form the Union🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
I’d like to know how much his barber gets and how often he goes.
an asset as in crude oil? So natural resources (which England in itself hardly lacks) are required for a country to be wealthy? Wasn't that reasoning discredited by economists long ago?
Many Scots say this, though they refer to the settlement of Australia and Canada. Even still, they neglect to mention that the eventual basis of the USA was English, and it was the English who established trade in India, Africa the Caribbean and the Far East
This had to be a major reason why the Scots agreed to Union in the first place.
Quite right, but America was a mistake on England's part. Canada, Australia and New Zealand are England's children, America is illegitimate!
Africa had its methods of trade before the invasion and illegal pillaging of the English. I think you are incredibly delusional if you assume the English brought any good or had any altruistic reason for invading a continent far from them
@@opola1432 take the chip in your shoulder elsewhere. You have a quite autistic understanding.
Sargasso sea massive No it wasn't, the failed Darien scheme & trade wars with england, left Scotland almost bankrupt. The deal for the union involved reimbursing the 'rich' who had lost out financially. Bought and sold for english gold was the phrase penned by Rabbi Burns. Scots rioted across the country after the vote was cast.
Its not so much what you got, its what you do with it. We have an opportunity to change our contribution to world affairs. I think Scotland would do many things differently
I would like to see a UK wide referendum on Scotland! I think the reply would be FOXTROT OSCAR! The sooner the better!
I am bigger than I once was, but can't think of anything that makes my fat belly better for me, except for perhaps resting pints on.The most equal and happy countries in the world are small with the top ones being similar sized to Scotland.I did once think that we(UK) could make that world u talk of, but the S/E England determines the policies for us all and within the union always will. Its a simple numbers game.Btw, a recent report puts the public's perception on immigration way out of reality
Go Ruth!! 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
I am sorry for the mistake in the figures given in my piece yesterday, it should have read billions not millions.
The British are mourning the Queen.
There is a major factor mixing here
Religion , the Jacobite’s were catholic, the people of Glasgow and the lowland west were not !!
They were British and proud
Check the date.
There are no Catholic or protestant MPs or parties.
Last was Teddy Taylor who had to leave Scotland in 1979 so he could get elected.
Of course it would apply.
A yes vote is also a vote to remain part of the EU so there will be no real change also if you enter a monetary policy with us or the EU then you may as well hand over Scotland on a silver plater. There is more to this then 'vote yes and everything will be fine and dandy'. If the EU does not accept you and we do not do a monetary policy with you then you will have your own currency which will be worth nothing.
Why do you think The SNP are a big NO to Nuke's?
A/ They (Westminster) will have to sub contract it all to us (Scotland) not out of Economics but solely down to 'Geography'. Our unique Deep Water naval bases can not be rebuilt in P-mouth or any where else. Only Scotland's topography makes it possible to have these deep water ports. This 'fact' is huge & it will all come down to Faslane, C-port & even Rosyth.
With Independence we can rent out these facilities, in fact we will have a monopoly for a change.
I want it, but doubt we will get a fair crack at Independance anyway. AMERICA won't allow it, & trust me, "Rigging Elections" is the USA's bread & butter. History & very recent current affairs tells us that the USA, with the UK acting the whipping boy n Educator part, (which is so embarrassing) educate despots, rig elections in their favour & put them into power. Then we can be paid handsomely by poverty ridden but mineral rich 3rd world countries.
Be it East/West Ghaddafi or Idi Amen, in fact pick any 1 of Africa's 50 add countries blindfolded with a pin, & where there aint a civil wars going on, a tyranical despot dictators are creating wealth for us & them, also but they keep it to themselves while their own suffer in real poverty.
Savages, educated by the UK establishment! After their Oxbridge years their put to power, an absolute power, back to their native lands. Where no mercy is shown to it's occupants. Dictators rule by fear!! Charles Taylor & Rab Mugabbi are another pair that have just sprang to mind.
Independence ffs!! Our own General Elections are decided by 1 man who aint even a politician. Rupert Murdoch.decides. He has done since the multi billionaire put Thatcher in. How did he do this? A/ Whatever party the editor of "The Sun" is told to back always wins the UK's own G-Elections. Thats the way things are the fcuking SUN tells it's readers what to vote & guess what they do everytime without fail. Best of it is, it's not even debatable. Both Tories & New Labour alike admit that the polls do go the way the Sun decides they go....... Im all for an Independent Scotland, but unless the US of A want it too. It aint going to happen.
Please nobody bother replying if it's going 2B a torrent of abuse. Sun readers need not apply .............................¬¬
Germany is as its had the largest economy in the sphere for decades.
Though you presume the EU would not be willing to conduct trade terms with the UK, and that the UK remainder without Scotland could not negotiate that or revisions with the EU. I think as said prior that the EU wouldn't "punish" us, as we would still be a large market for their goods, and that in the globalised world excluding large markets is counter-productive.
We do not want invaders.
Setting history aside which I aways find bizarre when it’s used to make decision in politics and in reversible decision. This world doesn’t need anymore independent countries, we need to reduce and bring humanity together and get a leader who pushes this and provides equal funds/ decision making to each part of the country. I was annoyed about leaving the EU to only be the floating island. We are tiny we don’t need another separation on a small island/s. Everyone suffered at some point sulking about the past is not the way forward. The UK is one big family, with politics from each country making the great country pushing their own power hungry agendas and playing on unfortunately the weak and easily influenced to attempt to get independence. Just because you leave doesn’t mean anything better will happen, likely suffering hugely for many years/ decades before any potential benefit is seen. Get over it and just embrace being British/ Scottish and part of a union family the UK.
aye very good, try telling that misty eyed utopian hippy nonsense to the Ukrainians,.. any one that thinks beyond sound bites and propaganda knows the "union family" is a myth, Britishness is a device that the English establishment used to dominate and assimilate nations world wide in pursuit of stolen resources...the Irish, Welsh and Scots are\were the last dominions of an English empire that serves an undemocratic system mired in political and economic corruption....All the UK nations including England need nothing short of revolution and the end of centralised Westminster misrule in-order to achieve proper democratic representation of the all countries that make up this Island...this issue isn't going away, the rumble of working class discontent is simmering in all the nations of this Island.
Ironic that you would write a comment about " weak and easily influenced " people whilst coming across as weak and easily influenced yourself. Away with your utter drivel.
Rennie's hypocrisy: In one breath he talks of Scotland not being able to afford the welfare bill, and in the next talks of Scotland being "well capable" of being a successful, prosperous independent country!
We must take caution with politicians reference to the "UK"...
There are two UKs... the Union of Crowns (the UK), and the Union of Parliaments (the UK of GB)... but both may be referred to as the "UK"!
Independence means to end the Union of Parliaments (UK of GB). NOT the Union of Crowns