- Books Mentioned in This Episode - > Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy (01:21:05) > Julius Caeser by William Shakespeare (02:47:21, 17:23:13) > The Divine Comedy by Dante Alighieri [we recommend the John Ciardi translation] (04:10:02) > Dorothy Sayer's commentaries on The Divine Comedy [contained in the introduction of her translation of the book] (06:11:20) > Moby-Dick by Herman Melville (08:52:21) > The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas (12:13:01, 22:30:19) > Wuthering Heights by Emily Brontë (23:36:21) > Jane Eyre by Charlotte Brontë (24:07:16) > The Bible [we recommend the King James Version] (27:00:09, 34:11:16) > The Prince and the Pauper by Mark Twain (27:55:00) > Vanity Fair by William Makepeace Thackeray (30:52:15) > The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare (31:23:16) > Sir Gawain and the Green Knight by "Gawain Poet" (31:37:01) > Beowulf by "Beowulf Poet" (31:39:20) > Treasure Island by Robert Louis Stevenson (32:25:00) > The Iliad by Homer (33:14:20) > The Odyssey by Homer (33:15:10) > The Aeneid by Virgil (33:16:02) > The Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer (33:22:04) > King Arthur and His Knights of the Round Table by Roger Lancelyn Green (34:09:02) > Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen (37:56:23) > Rip Van Winkle by Washington Irving (38:47:15) > Brideshead Revisited by Evelyn Waugh (45:01:13) > Nicholas Nickleby by Charles Dickens (46:15:02) > Bleak House by Charles Dickens (46:50:23) > Daniel Deronda by George Eliot (47:32:01) > Silas Marner by George Eliot (47:35:04) > Hard Times by Charles Dickens (47:57:14) > Oliver Twist by Charles Dickens (48:00:05) > The Pearl by John Steinbeck (48:02:06) > The Old Man and the Sea by Ernest Hemingway (48:06:00) > Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck (48:08:08) > A Preface to Paradise Lost by C. S. Lewis (50:31:14) > Perrine's Sound and Sense: An Introduction to Poetry by Greg Johnson and Thomas R. Arp (50:49:08) Tanya's Ending Recommendations: Jayber Crow by Wendell Berry (42:08:17); The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinback (49:14:20) Martin's Ending Recommendation: Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy (42:33:09) Paul's Ending Recommendation: The End of the Affair by Graham Greene (43:35:02) Shane's Ending Recommendations: The Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde (49:31:02); Paradise Lost by John Milton (50:02:02)
Yes, Kevin, that is essential, but in the great expanse of time, a great book should do that to generations of lifetimes. Otherwise, it's just an opinion.
Would love to see some online classes/organized dialog for fun/learning for the parents of classical kids so we can dig into the great books ourselves (for those of us who aren't home schooling but want to know more). Just an idea :) Love the videos- thanks for helping me better understand classical education!!
Hey Natalie! Thanks for reaching out. We actually have a collection of courses from Memoria College that are just that! We've created online classes comprised of reading and organized dialogue oriented around a study of the Great Books. Check them out here! -> memoriacollege.org/classes/
First time listening to this podcast and y'all had me laughing out loud in the first five minutes. "That was very succinct" ... "Can you elaborate on that though" Lmao There was like half a dozen of those in the first 5minutes. Caught me off guard. Instant subscribe.
Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein The greatness is in the ideas it makes you think about regardless of whether it touches your soul. I do not doubt that some people would regard it as blasphemous but some people don't want to think outside their own box.
Hey Manases, absolutely not too much to ask! Here's a comprehensive list: > Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy (01:21:05) > Julius Caeser by William Shakespeare (02:47:21, 17:23:13) > The Divine Comedy by Dante Alighieri [we recommend the John Ciardi translation] (04:10:02) > Dorothy Sayer's commentaries on The Divine Comedy [contained in the introduction of her translation of the book] (06:11:20) > Moby-Dick by Herman Melville (08:52:21) > The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas (12:13:01, 22:30:19) > Wuthering Heights by Emily Brontë (23:36:21) > Jane Eyre by Charlotte Brontë (24:07:16) > The Bible [we recommend the King James Version] (27:00:09, 34:11:16) > The Prince and the Pauper by Mark Twain (27:55:00) > Vanity Fair by William Makepeace Thackeray (30:52:15) > The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare (31:23:16) > Sir Gawain and the Green Knight by "Gawain Poet" (31:37:01) > Beowulf by "Beowulf Poet" (31:39:20) > Treasure Island by Robert Louis Stevenson (32:25:00) > The Iliad by Homer (33:14:20) > The Odyssey by Homer (33:15:10) > The Aeneid by Virgil (33:16:02) > The Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer (33:22:04) > King Arthur and His Knights of the Round Table by Roger Lancelyn Green (34:09:02) > Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen (37:56:23) > Rip Van Winkle by Washington Irving (38:47:15) > Brideshead Revisited by Evelyn Waugh (45:01:13) > Nicholas Nickleby by Charles Dickens (46:15:02) > Bleak House by Charles Dickens (46:50:23) > Daniel Deronda by George Eliot (47:32:01) > Silas Marner by George Eliot (47:35:04) > Hard Times by Charles Dickens (47:57:14) > Oliver Twist by Charles Dickens (48:00:05) > The Pearl by John Steinbeck (48:02:06) > The Old Man and the Sea by Ernest Hemingway (48:06:00) > Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck (48:08:08) > A Preface to Paradise Lost by C. S. Lewis (50:31:14) > Perrine's Sound and Sense: An Introduction to Poetry by Greg Johnson and Thomas R. Arp (50:49:08) Tanya's Ending Recommendations: Jayber Crow by Wendell Berry (42:08:17); The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinback (49:14:20) Martin's Ending Recommendation: Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy (42:33:09) Paul's Ending Recommendation: The End of the Affair by Graham Greene (43:35:02) Shane's Ending Recommendations: The Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde (49:31:02); Paradise Lost by John Milton (50:02:02)
@@memoriapress Thank you for your reply. I ordered the cloth bound copy which arrived yesterday. What a beautiful book! I know that is not the reason you recommended it, but it is certainly a bonus. I guess the “best novel, by the best author” deserves nothing less!
So many books, so little time! What’s the opinion of others...is it better to be reading several books at the same time or just focus on one book at a time and read straight through before starting another? If you have more than one book on the go, are their any pairings that work well together?
I generally have one book going on my Kindle and one in print. Sometimes I'm tempted to begin more, but I know I'll find it hard to finish if I try reading too many at once!
Ms. Tanya had said in a previous video that one ‘can’t read Dickens at the beach’ :). I’m overseas so most of my books have to be on my iPad (kindle app) so the screen is bigger which helps.I like to have a few going at a season and it depends on where I am (at the playground or after kids are in bed!). I like to be able to have a few to pick up where I left off - spiritual/classic/entertaining. I especially love the ability to send a ‘sample’ of an interesting book to the kindle so you can read the first chapter or so. Have fun!
I’m annoyed that after she finally named Grapes of Wrath as her book recommendation that the host immediately cut her off to give his recommendations without giving her the space explain why.
Ohhh my ears! My heart died when Shane said Paradise Lost was better than Divine Comedy. 😱 Drama aside, could it be that one reason many of native English speaking people find it difficult to read Dante is because of the original language it was written? That would be why it is easier for you guys to like Paradise Lost more? I mean, I'm Brazilian, so my first language is Portuguese, so is closer to Latin and the proto-italian in which Dante wrote the Divine Comedy, which would make the translation easier for my language therefore making it closer to home for me than for Anglo-Saxon speakers. It could be a reason. The first time I read Divine Comedy, I felt completely stupid, but I couldn't stop reading. As for Paradise Lost, I had to drop it completely. I just couldn't give poetic license to the theological mistakes of the book, and it was just annoying. I read it in English so it wasn't the translator's fault. It did felt like I was reading a book about a pity party for Lucifer. And maybe I just made some people hears bleed, hahahaha. Great video, by the way. It really made me think about somethings. 😊
I always get sad when I have to read a great piece of literature, mostly poetry, in translation. I always have this feeling that I'm missing out on something beautiful that only works in the original language.
I too have a hard time with the collective agreement. There’s a lot of “great books” that I think are terrible. Tom Sawyer is insufferable and Huck Finn is unreadable. I never understood why those books made it on any list, while Connecticut Yankee and Puddin Head never do. Comedia was meant to be read in Italian. That was Dante’s life’s work. Maybe we should actually be studying it in Italian and not English.
Why are Ivy League schools elite? They’re old. There were fewer places of learning way back, and, consequently, they took hold, got the best students who then reinforced their reputation, which allowed them to be increasingly selective, and so on. How many people wrote books and had the resources to distribute them in ancient times? It’s no doubt that these are the ones that are inevitably mentioned in these lists. They’re responsible for SHAPING the culture, not merely describing it. If someone wrote Canterbury Tales today, it would be completely panned. It is an historical document but also one that shaped things to come.
Her point about great books not necessarily being defined as something that «touches your soul» is valid, as there is no common soul. And her point about her reading of The Divine Comedy feeling uneven, and the doofus next to her being flippant about her experience, saying maybe the problem is her,-maybe not actually. A great book is never a book without stronger and weaker aspects and parts. Rational, intelligent people not blinded by authority are able to judge and think independently and not treat the canon as Scripture.
- Books Mentioned in This Episode -
> Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy (01:21:05)
> Julius Caeser by William Shakespeare (02:47:21, 17:23:13)
> The Divine Comedy by Dante Alighieri [we recommend the John Ciardi translation] (04:10:02)
> Dorothy Sayer's commentaries on The Divine Comedy [contained in the introduction of her translation of the book] (06:11:20)
> Moby-Dick by Herman Melville (08:52:21)
> The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas (12:13:01, 22:30:19)
> Wuthering Heights by Emily Brontë (23:36:21)
> Jane Eyre by Charlotte Brontë (24:07:16)
> The Bible [we recommend the King James Version] (27:00:09, 34:11:16)
> The Prince and the Pauper by Mark Twain (27:55:00)
> Vanity Fair by William Makepeace Thackeray (30:52:15)
> The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare (31:23:16)
> Sir Gawain and the Green Knight by "Gawain Poet" (31:37:01)
> Beowulf by "Beowulf Poet" (31:39:20)
> Treasure Island by Robert Louis Stevenson (32:25:00)
> The Iliad by Homer (33:14:20)
> The Odyssey by Homer (33:15:10)
> The Aeneid by Virgil (33:16:02)
> The Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer (33:22:04)
> King Arthur and His Knights of the Round Table by Roger Lancelyn Green (34:09:02)
> Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen (37:56:23)
> Rip Van Winkle by Washington Irving (38:47:15)
> Brideshead Revisited by Evelyn Waugh (45:01:13)
> Nicholas Nickleby by Charles Dickens (46:15:02)
> Bleak House by Charles Dickens (46:50:23)
> Daniel Deronda by George Eliot (47:32:01)
> Silas Marner by George Eliot (47:35:04)
> Hard Times by Charles Dickens (47:57:14)
> Oliver Twist by Charles Dickens (48:00:05)
> The Pearl by John Steinbeck (48:02:06)
> The Old Man and the Sea by Ernest Hemingway (48:06:00)
> Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck (48:08:08)
> A Preface to Paradise Lost by C. S. Lewis (50:31:14)
> Perrine's Sound and Sense: An Introduction to Poetry by Greg Johnson and Thomas R. Arp (50:49:08)
Tanya's Ending Recommendations: Jayber Crow by Wendell Berry (42:08:17); The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinback (49:14:20)
Martin's Ending Recommendation: Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy (42:33:09)
Paul's Ending Recommendation: The End of the Affair by Graham Greene (43:35:02)
Shane's Ending Recommendations: The Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde (49:31:02); Paradise Lost by John Milton (50:02:02)
I think a “Great Book” is one that you can go back to at various stages of your life and come away with a whole new perspective of the story.
That's a great way of looking at it!
Yes, Kevin, that is essential, but in the great expanse of time, a great book should do that to generations of lifetimes. Otherwise, it's just an opinion.
I absolutely love this show. Thank you for continuing to create content.
A "Great Book" is one that has an enduring positive influence on civilization
Would love to see some online classes/organized dialog for fun/learning for the parents of classical kids so we can dig into the great books ourselves (for those of us who aren't home schooling but want to know more). Just an idea :) Love the videos- thanks for helping me better understand classical education!!
Hey Natalie! Thanks for reaching out. We actually have a collection of courses from Memoria College that are just that! We've created online classes comprised of reading and organized dialogue oriented around a study of the Great Books. Check them out here! -> memoriacollege.org/classes/
@@memoriapress Awesome I will check them out! Thanks for the reply.
These new videos have been fantastic. Thank you.
Glad you like them! Thanks for letting us know!
A really wonderful and helpful discussion. Which can help those who want to read the great books.all the speakers were.yes, great to listen to
First time listening to this podcast and y'all had me laughing out loud in the first five minutes.
"That was very succinct"
...
"Can you elaborate on that though"
Lmao
There was like half a dozen of those in the first 5minutes. Caught me off guard.
Instant subscribe.
well shot video, good points
Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein
The greatness is in the ideas it makes you think about regardless of whether it touches your soul. I do not doubt that some people would regard it as blasphemous but some people don't want to think outside their own box.
I don't know if this would be too much to ask but could we have a list of the books mentioned, or at least the ones recommended in the end?
Hey Manases, absolutely not too much to ask! Here's a comprehensive list:
> Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy (01:21:05)
> Julius Caeser by William Shakespeare (02:47:21, 17:23:13)
> The Divine Comedy by Dante Alighieri [we recommend the John Ciardi translation] (04:10:02)
> Dorothy Sayer's commentaries on The Divine Comedy [contained in the introduction of her translation of the book] (06:11:20)
> Moby-Dick by Herman Melville (08:52:21)
> The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas (12:13:01, 22:30:19)
> Wuthering Heights by Emily Brontë (23:36:21)
> Jane Eyre by Charlotte Brontë (24:07:16)
> The Bible [we recommend the King James Version] (27:00:09, 34:11:16)
> The Prince and the Pauper by Mark Twain (27:55:00)
> Vanity Fair by William Makepeace Thackeray (30:52:15)
> The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare (31:23:16)
> Sir Gawain and the Green Knight by "Gawain Poet" (31:37:01)
> Beowulf by "Beowulf Poet" (31:39:20)
> Treasure Island by Robert Louis Stevenson (32:25:00)
> The Iliad by Homer (33:14:20)
> The Odyssey by Homer (33:15:10)
> The Aeneid by Virgil (33:16:02)
> The Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer (33:22:04)
> King Arthur and His Knights of the Round Table by Roger Lancelyn Green (34:09:02)
> Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen (37:56:23)
> Rip Van Winkle by Washington Irving (38:47:15)
> Brideshead Revisited by Evelyn Waugh (45:01:13)
> Nicholas Nickleby by Charles Dickens (46:15:02)
> Bleak House by Charles Dickens (46:50:23)
> Daniel Deronda by George Eliot (47:32:01)
> Silas Marner by George Eliot (47:35:04)
> Hard Times by Charles Dickens (47:57:14)
> Oliver Twist by Charles Dickens (48:00:05)
> The Pearl by John Steinbeck (48:02:06)
> The Old Man and the Sea by Ernest Hemingway (48:06:00)
> Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck (48:08:08)
> A Preface to Paradise Lost by C. S. Lewis (50:31:14)
> Perrine's Sound and Sense: An Introduction to Poetry by Greg Johnson and Thomas R. Arp (50:49:08)
Tanya's Ending Recommendations: Jayber Crow by Wendell Berry (42:08:17); The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinback (49:14:20)
Martin's Ending Recommendation: Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy (42:33:09)
Paul's Ending Recommendation: The End of the Affair by Graham Greene (43:35:02)
Shane's Ending Recommendations: The Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde (49:31:02); Paradise Lost by John Milton (50:02:02)
@@memoriapress Thank you!
MP, which translation of Tolstoy’s Anna Karenina do you recommend?
Hey Paula,
We recommend the translation by Richard Pevear and Larissa Volokhonsky. Hope this helps!
I would read samples from different translations and see which one you like the most
@@memoriapress Thank you for your reply. I ordered the cloth bound copy which arrived yesterday. What a beautiful book! I know that is not the reason you recommended it, but it is certainly a bonus. I guess the “best novel, by the best author” deserves nothing less!
Good conversation
So many books, so little time! What’s the opinion of others...is it better to be reading several books at the same time or just focus on one book at a time and read straight through before starting another? If you have more than one book on the go, are their any pairings that work well together?
I generally have one book going on my Kindle and one in print. Sometimes I'm tempted to begin more, but I know I'll find it hard to finish if I try reading too many at once!
Ms. Tanya had said in a previous video that one ‘can’t read Dickens at the beach’ :). I’m overseas so most of my books have to be on my iPad (kindle app) so the screen is bigger which helps.I like to have a few going at a season and it depends on where I am (at the playground or after kids are in bed!). I like to be able to have a few to pick up where I left off - spiritual/classic/entertaining. I especially love the ability to send a ‘sample’ of an interesting book to the kindle so you can read the first chapter or so. Have fun!
When I read the Divine Comedy, I felt that Inferno was by far the best of the three books. They went went downhill from there.
I’m annoyed that after she finally named Grapes of Wrath as her book recommendation that the host immediately cut her off to give his recommendations without giving her the space explain why.
Ohhh my ears! My heart died when Shane said Paradise Lost was better than Divine Comedy. 😱
Drama aside, could it be that one reason many of native English speaking people find it difficult to read Dante is because of the original language it was written? That would be why it is easier for you guys to like Paradise Lost more?
I mean, I'm Brazilian, so my first language is Portuguese, so is closer to Latin and the proto-italian in which Dante wrote the Divine Comedy, which would make the translation easier for my language therefore making it closer to home for me than for Anglo-Saxon speakers. It could be a reason. The first time I read Divine Comedy, I felt completely stupid, but I couldn't stop reading.
As for Paradise Lost, I had to drop it completely. I just couldn't give poetic license to the theological mistakes of the book, and it was just annoying. I read it in English so it wasn't the translator's fault. It did felt like I was reading a book about a pity party for Lucifer. And maybe I just made some people hears bleed, hahahaha.
Great video, by the way. It really made me think about somethings. 😊
I always get sad when I have to read a great piece of literature, mostly poetry, in translation. I always have this feeling that I'm missing out on something beautiful that only works in the original language.
@hollowmen5934 Yeah, it's upsetting, but, unfortunately, we can not learn every single language. I wish I could, hahaha.
In Monte Cristo, Dantes uses his enemies' own vices to punish them. There would be no revenge if they hadn't responded to their own temptations.
What a fun conversation! Thought-provokin but entertaining. This made me want to read again like BookTok hasn't managed to.
I too have a hard time with the collective agreement. There’s a lot of “great books” that I think are terrible. Tom Sawyer is insufferable and Huck Finn is unreadable. I never understood why those books made it on any list, while Connecticut Yankee and Puddin Head never do.
Comedia was meant to be read in Italian. That was Dante’s life’s work. Maybe we should actually be studying it in Italian and not English.
Why are Ivy League schools elite? They’re old. There were fewer places of learning way back, and, consequently, they took hold, got the best students who then reinforced their reputation, which allowed them to be increasingly selective, and so on.
How many people wrote books and had the resources to distribute them in ancient times? It’s no doubt that these are the ones that are inevitably mentioned in these lists. They’re responsible for SHAPING the culture, not merely describing it. If someone wrote Canterbury Tales today, it would be completely panned. It is an historical document but also one that shaped things to come.
You forgot the most important great book of all time...
...
...
....
The Very Hungry Caterpillar.🍓🐛
I disagree that reading great books is necessary for all students. These are enjoyable to some, but they aren’t necessary for everyone.
Yeah but they stated a few times that it doesn't have to be an "enjoyable" endeavor for it to be valuable.
Her point about great books not necessarily being defined as something that «touches your soul» is valid, as there is no common soul. And her point about her reading of The Divine Comedy feeling uneven, and the doofus next to her being flippant about her experience, saying maybe the problem is her,-maybe not actually. A great book is never a book without stronger and weaker aspects and parts. Rational, intelligent people not blinded by authority are able to judge and think independently and not treat the canon as Scripture.
Paradise Lost is way better.
Moby Dick does not belong among the great books... Worthless pulp... Initial critics were right about it 🤬